Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Title: Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement) Hello The, Tuesday, July 24, 2018, 8:41:57 AM, you wrote: Sometimes, >>> Deliberately not signed. ;-) >> This arrangement is, of course, exactly what spammers want. Maxim's intent for this group >> was, I suspect, to make it easier to reply without having to check whether you are sending to the >> group and not to the message originator. > Sometimes I prefer to reply in private instead of sending to the list. And if one of us were to be infected with an email virus, his computer would not be able to spread that virus to the rest of us through this list. That is, without infecting the list server, which would be a logical next step in the evolutionary predator/prey cycle of computer viruses. That may be, but TheBat! is a communication tool. If it strips out who the author of the email is, communication is interrupted. My email provider has a pretty good virus detector. It detects viruses and deletes infected messages without sending them to me. Pretty good system. It also awaits the next step. -- Gleason That's the right thing to do. Not anonymise all emails in a mailing list. -- Cheers, Thomas. Travel Map: http://matadornetwork.com/travel-map/db757901ff009eef93a2fc09521fb6bf-1482632877 Message reply created with The Bat! 8.4 under Windows 10.0 Build 17134 Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Guten Tag, The Bat Beta, this mail comes to you from Lüko Willms mailto:wil...@luekowillms.de (this is true, but since this is just text, it could by anything) am Dienstag, 24. Juli 2018 um 17:42 schrieben Sie: > DMARC compliant MTA servers receiving messages with a from header that > is at odds with the domain of the reply-to are spoof or phishing > mails. This is nonsense. The operators of such MTA should check RFC 5322, the current standard for Internet mail, and correct their wrong assumptions. The standard is quite clear that the actual author (the one on the FROM field) and the SENDER of the message can be different persons with different mailbox addresses and then, of course, different domains. I have dozens of email addresses on half a dozen of more domain names, and I am free to direct replies to any other address of mine, different from me as the author, i.e. the FROM address (BTW, I have also activated SPF for four of my domains). It is completely normal for mailing lists, that the SENDER field, showing the address of the mailing list processor, contains a different address with a different domain than the FROM field, i.e the actual author of the content of the message being distributed by the mailing list. Spoofing the acutal author as being somebody different than the real author is the biggest help the spammers and criminals can hope for. The peak is the current situation of this mailing list. The ultimate horror and ultimate tool for spammers. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Lüko Willms mailto:wil...@luekowillms.de Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Guten Tag, tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com, this mail comes from Lüko Willms, who studies network mail since the early 1980ies. am Dienstag, 24. Juli 2018 um 10:11 schrieb Max Masiutin, fraudulently presented as "tbbeta": > Tuesday, July 24, 2018, 10:43:36 AM, you wrote: >> Of course, with the change in list message addressing, it is now vital >> to state who you are in the body of the message or with a signature >> footer. > Can the list preserve the name of the sender? FIRST, the name of the SENDER is the mailing list. The FROM address is the acutal author of the message, the one who is responsible for the content of the mail. Before this treacherous change, at least the NAME of the author was preserved in the already falsified FROM field, by giving him a false mailbox address. The only proper solution is that the FROM remains unchanged from the actual AUTHOR of the message, and the SENDER shows the addres of the mailing list. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Lüko Willms mailto:wil...@luekowillms.de Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Hello The, We may need to change our salutation macros... > The reason for the change is, as Dierk pointed out, How do I find Dierks message(s) in message list (see attached)? -- Who cares who I am ;-) Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
The, > On 24 July 2018 at 16:05 someone wrote and made > these points TBB>> Deliberately, > I added the X-Return Path to headers which gave me your email address, > but not > your name. >>> There is no X-Return Path on the mail I reply to herewith. >>> That only works for the sender to get info to send the message to, >>> and not for the receiver. >>> Deliberately not signed. ;-) TBB>> This arrangement is, of course, exactly what spammers want. > It is. I can no longer determine the originator of any message should > any abuse issues arise. I predict this list could rapidly become a > nightmare to moderate. TBB>> Maxim's intent for this group was, I suspect, to make it easier TBB>> to reply without having to check whether you are sending to the TBB>> group and not to the message originator. > It was not. The reason for the change is, as Dierk pointed out, that > DMARC compliant MTA servers receiving messages with a from header that > is at odds with the domain of the reply-to are spoof or phishing > mails. But not necessarily, of course. My email provider offers a large range of domains that a user can have for aliases. A couple I use are mm.st, and fea.st. My from header domanin might not be the same as my reply to header. > Max has had issues with key users not receiving TBBETA > announcements because they sit on the other side of a DMARC compliant > server. I suspect there really is no good solution that fits everybody. Except maybe to be sure that your TB folder setup does not specify a different domain in your reply to field that what is in your from field. > ... -- Gleason Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
On 24 July 2018 at 16:05 someone wrote and made these points TBB> Deliberately, I added the X-Return Path to headers which gave me your email address, but not your name. >> There is no X-Return Path on the mail I reply to herewith. >> That only works for the sender to get info to send the message to, >> and not for the receiver. >> Deliberately not signed. ;-) TBB> This arrangement is, of course, exactly what spammers want. It is. I can no longer determine the originator of any message should any abuse issues arise. I predict this list could rapidly become a nightmare to moderate. TBB> Maxim's intent for this group was, I suspect, to make it easier TBB> to reply without having to check whether you are sending to the TBB> group and not to the message originator. It was not. The reason for the change is, as Dierk pointed out, that DMARC compliant MTA servers receiving messages with a from header that is at odds with the domain of the reply-to are spoof or phishing mails. Max has had issues with key users not receiving TBBETA announcements because they sit on the other side of a DMARC compliant server. ... -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v8.5.8.2 (ALPHA) on Windows 10.0.17134 pgpnuAtoX4gDd.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Sometimes, >>> Deliberately not signed. ;-) >> This arrangement is, of course, exactly what spammers want. Maxim's intent >> for this group >> was, I suspect, to make it easier to reply without having to check whether >> you are sending to the >> group and not to the message originator. > Sometimes I prefer to reply in private instead of sending to the list. And if one of us were to be infected with an email virus, his computer would not be able to spread that virus to the rest of us through this list. That is, without infecting the list server, which would be a logical next step in the evolutionary predator/prey cycle of computer viruses. My email provider has a pretty good virus detector. It detects viruses and deletes infected messages without sending them to me. Pretty good system. It also awaits the next step. -- Gleason Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
>> Deliberately not signed. ;-) > This arrangement is, of course, exactly what spammers want. Maxim's intent > for this group > was, I suspect, to make it easier to reply without having to check whether > you are sending to the > group and not to the message originator. Sometimes I prefer to reply in private instead of sending to the list. -- Kind regards, Gunivortus The Bat! Professional 64 bit, version 8.5.8.2 (ALPHA) Windows Pro 64 bit version 10, build nr. 17134 NordVPN vs. 6.11.12.0 Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Deliberately, >>> I added the X-Return Path to headers which gave me your email address, but >>> not >>> your name. > There is no X-Return Path on the mail I reply to herewith. > That only works for the sender to get info to send the message to, > and not for the receiver. > Deliberately not signed. ;-) This arrangement is, of course, exactly what spammers want. Maxim's intent for this group was, I suspect, to make it easier to reply without having to check whether you are sending to the group and not to the message originator. The change was effected by a change in the group server configuration. It would be possible to set that back without changing the way The Bat works. I suspect that for normal email interactions the TB group server change would not make any difference, and not benefit spammers. > > Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: > http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html -- Gleason Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
>> I added the X-Return Path to headers which gave me your email address, but >> not >> your name. There is no X-Return Path on the mail I reply to herewith. That only works for the sender to get info to send the message to, and not for the receiver. Deliberately not signed. ;-) Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Guten Tag, The Bat Beta, am Dienstag, 24. Juli 2018 um 13:32 schrieben Sie: > Hello The, > Tuesday, July 24, 2018, 4:48:43 AM, you wrote: >> I can't find any option to do that in Mailman beyond the option you >> just asked me to turn off. >> "Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address >> (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)" >> ... unless anyone has any ideas? > I added the X-Return Path to headers which gave me your email address, but not > your name. There is no X-Return Path on the mail I reply to herewith. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Lüko Willms mailto:wil...@luekowillms.de Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Hello The, Tuesday, July 24, 2018, 4:48:43 AM, you wrote: > I can't find any option to do that in Mailman beyond the option you > just asked me to turn off. > "Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address > (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)" > ... unless anyone has any ideas? I added the X-Return Path to headers which gave me your email address, but not your name. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
On 24 July 2018 at 09:11 tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com wrote and made these points >> Of course, with the change in list message addressing, it is now vital >> to state who you are in the body of the message or with a signature >> footer. TBL> Can the list preserve the name of the sender? I can't find any option to do that in Mailman beyond the option you just asked me to turn off. "Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)" ... unless anyone has any ideas? -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v8.5.8.2 (ALPHA) on Windows 10.0.17134 pgpaiHOI7V1uO.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Hello Marck, Tuesday, July 24, 2018, 10:43:36 AM, you wrote: > Of course, with the change in list message addressing, it is now vital > to state who you are in the body of the message or with a signature > footer. Can the list preserve the name of the sender? -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutin Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 8.5.8.2 (second announcement)
Dear Max, On 24 July 2018 at 06:57 tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com wrote and made these points TBL> *** This is the second announcement of The Bat! 8.5.8.2 (ALPHA). TBL> I have made the first one on 23 Jul 2018 15:47:31 +0300, but it TBL> might have triggered DMARC/DRIM-failure. TBL> The Bat! 8.5.8.2 (ALPHA) is available at TBL> https://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb8582-32.rar TBL> https://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb8582-64.rar TBL> What's new in 8.5.8.2 since 8.5.8: TBL> [-] First Implementation of Scale HTML (There is a new mode in TBL> the message editor: "Scaled HTML". Of course, with the change in list message addressing, it is now vital to state who you are in the body of the message or with a signature footer. -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v8.5.8.2 (ALPHA) on Windows 10.0.17134 pgpuff8AfTpwb.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 8.5.8.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html