Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-08 Thread Lüko Willms
Hello everybody,

on Donnerstag, 7. Mai 2020 at 16:06  Thomas Fernandez  
wrote
re Real names not displayed correctly
 


  Why don't you contact them?
  qq.com is actually made by Tencent: http://www.tencent.com/en-us/index.html 

Yes, and Tencent is one of the biggest tech companies in the world. 

  Comparable to Google.  I also can't understand why people chose Google Mail 
to let the data collectors gather information on with whom and how frequently 
the customer exchanges mails.  
  In capitalism: TANSTAAFL = There is no such thing as a free lunch. When you 
don't pay with money, you pay with your data, i.e. your privacy. 
  
  BTW, GMX is only one service and brand of United Internet, others are 1&1, 
Web.de, Strato, Drillisch, and others. See de.wikipedia


They will certainly listen to me when I tell them that they need to change 
their RFC-headers.

I just went through a month-long discussion with GMX, the biggest email 
provider in Europe, about one of their settings. The end was that they finally 
understood that there is something wrong with their settings, and that they 
will relay it to their tech department (of course I could only talk to customer 
service). I am a paying customer there.

   I had the same experience; they are very arrogant there. But both our 
experiences show that perseverance pays. GMX/Web.de had wrong settings so that 
relatives of me could not send mail to a common friend of us in an african 
country. Even quoting relevant rules from RFCs didn't convince them. They 
finally corrected the error when I told them that their error was not a problem 
for me, since my main email account is on T-Online, and I am forwarding mail 
from my GMX-only relatives. 
   

GMX are most likely a microscopic company compared to Tencent. I don't have any 
comparison figures for QQ Mail, but would not be surprised if they could 
swallow GMX many times over in terms of number of users.

  At least, long after my complaints, they stopped adding a second PDF of 168 
kb with the same file name as the actual invoice. So they change, but only in 
snail speed. 
  
  As to the Tencent problem: Here is the relevant rule from RFC5322, which is 
probably the current version of the original RFC822 
(https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5322.txt) : 
  
> 3.4.  Address Specification
>
>Addresses occur in several message header fields to indicate senders
>and recipients of messages.  An address may either be an individual
>mailbox, or a group of mailboxes.
>
>address =   mailbox / group
>
>mailbox =   name-addr / addr-spec
>
>name-addr   =   [display-name] angle-addr
>
>angle-addr  =   [CFWS] "<" addr-spec ">" [CFWS] /
>obs-angle-addr
>
>group   =   display-name ":" [group-list] ";" [CFWS]
>
>display-name=   phrase
>
>mailbox-list=   (mailbox *("," mailbox)) / obs-mbox-list
>
>address-list=   (address *("," address)) / obs-addr-list
>
>group-list  =   mailbox-list / CFWS / obs-group-list
>
>A mailbox receives mail.  It is a conceptual entity that does not
>necessarily pertain to file storage.  For example, some sites may
>choose to print mail on a printer and deliver the output to the
>addressee's desk.
>
>Normally, a mailbox is composed of two parts: (1) an optional display
>name that indicates the name of the recipient (which can be a person
>or a system) that could be displayed to the user of a mail
>application, and (2) an addr-spec address enclosed in angle brackets

  

Cheers,
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt am Main
Germany

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-07 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Hello Andrew,

On Thu, 7 May 2020 23:51:13 +0930 GMT (07-May-20, 21:21 +0700 GMT),
Andrew Savchenko wrote:

>> Some powers are more powerful than RFCs.

> What are you proposing here, change the laws to suit the largest player?

No, I am suggesting to consider practicability over insistance on the
RFCs in exceptional cases. Making the product more usable. The RFCs
are not "laws", by the way.

> I believe that response from Maxim was crystal clear:

>>> This is intentional behaviour, to address the Mailsploit issue.
>>> .
>>> Otherwise, it would have allowed effective sender spoofing in The Bat!

> Is that what you want?

Excuse me, if HSBC sends you an email, stating that a Nigerian prince
wants to send you millions of dollars, do you believe it? If so, you
do need to be protected from sender spoofing. Most people don't, and
most people use email clients that display the QP-encoded headers
correctly. And guess what, I even get emails from spoofed senders that
are not QP-encoded. Now what? Not displaying any From addresses any more?

It may not matter in your world, because you are not doing business
with China (biggest country in the world by population, second biggest
by size of economy), but a great percentage of the world population
(current or potential customers of Ritlabs) does.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-07 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Title: Re: Real names not displayed correctly


Hello Lüko,

On Thu, 7 May 2020 14:24:44 +0200 GMT (07-May-20, 19:24 +0700 GMT),
Lüko Willms wrote:





> One of the biggest email providers in the biggest country of the world
> (by population) is more than just "a single mail server". Sorry.

  Still just one mailserver. But ... could it be that the culprit is not the SMTP-Server but the mail program of your correspondent? Is there a "X-mailer" header in the mail?



X-QQ-MIME: TCMime 1.0 by Tencent
X-Mailer: QQMail 2.x
X-QQ-Mailer: QQMail 2.x





> But maybe you can talk to their postmaster and tell them they have to
> change their settings, I am sure they will listen to your wisdom. In
> the meantime, I cannot use TheBat when doing business with them.

  Why don't you contact them?
  qq.com is actually made by Tencent: http://www.tencent.com/en-us/index.html 



Yes, and Tencent is one of the biggest tech companies in the world. They will certainly listen to me when I tell them that they need to change their RFC-headers.

I just went through a month-long discussion with GMX, the biggest email provider in Europe, about one of their settings. The end was that they finally understood that there is something wrong with their settings, and that they will relay it to their tech department (of course I could only talk to customer service). I am a paying customer there.

GMX are most likely a microscopic company compared to Tencent. I don't have any comparison figures for QQ Mail, but would not be surprised if they could swallow GMX many times over in terms of number of users. And I am not a paying customer at QQ Mail, I am not even a user. I am jsut a recipient of emails from a small number of their millions and millions of users, and the recipients of emails sent by  QQ Mail who have problems with the header they send is microscopic, proabably below detection level. I just don't believe that they will follow my suggestions, even if I they tell them they are just only one mailserver and they have to adapt. They won't, and that is a fact we'll have to work with.

Some powers are more powerful than RFCs.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-07 Thread Lüko Willms
Hello everybody,

on Mittwoch, 6. Mai 2020 at 15:38  Thomas Fernandez  wrote
re Real names not displayed correctly

  
> One of the biggest email providers in the biggest country of the world
> (by population) is more than just "a single mail server". Sorry.

  Still just one mailserver. But ... could it be that the culprit is not the 
SMTP-Server but the mail program of your correspondent? Is there a "X-mailer" 
header in the mail? 

> But maybe you can talk to their postmaster and tell them they have to
> change their settings, I am sure they will listen to your wisdom. In
> the meantime, I cannot use TheBat when doing business with them.

  Why don't you contact them? 
  qq.com is actually made by Tencent: http://www.tencent.com/en-us/index.html 


Cheers,
Lüko Willms
Frankfurt am Main
Germany

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-06 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Hello Andrew,

On Wed, 6 May 2020 23:01:41 +0930 GMT (06-May-20, 20:31 +0700 GMT),
Andrew Savchenko wrote:

> Hello Thomas,

> Wednesday, May 6, 2020, 10:42:23 PM, you wrote:

>> The sender's MUA is the webmailer at qq.com, one of the biggest email
>> providers in China. I would think that TB should accommodate their
>> flaw, as other receiving MUAs do.

> With all due respect, no MUA should accommodate to a bug of a single
> provider gone rogue.

> To quote Maxim (see https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1791#c6045)
[...]

I saw that quote, hence my posting here.

>> Unless Ritlabs can change China, TheBat becomes unusable for business.

> Let's reduce scope of generalisation here. Until this sentence point of
> discussion was a single mail server, not a country.

One of the biggest email providers in the biggest country of the world
(by population) is more than just "a single mail server". Sorry.

But maybe you can talk to their postmaster and tell them they have to
change their settings, I am sure they will listen to your wisdom. In
the meantime, I cannot use TheBat when doing business with them.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-06 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Hello Gwen,

On Wed, 6 May 2020 10:26:17 +0200 GMT (06-May-20, 15:26 +0700 GMT),
Gwen wrote:

> Hello Thomas,

> On Wed, 6 May 2020, at 14:59:03 [GMT +0700] (which was 09:59 where I
> live) Thomas wrote:

>>> That is a reported bug:
>>> 0001791: From header with Qutoed_Printable not shown correct
>>> https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1791

>> Bugnote added.

> Fine! Thanks.

It now shows "Resolved -> won't fix", because apparently the sender's
MUA did not set <> characters.

The sender's MUA is the webmailer at qq.com, one of the biggest email
providers in China. I would think that TB should accommodate their
flaw, as other receiving MUAs do.

The problem is that I am communicating with my customer in China, and
this is really really bad style. As mentioned, other business partners
he communicatesd with do not reply to him as 'Dear
"=?utf-8?B?dGhvbWFzQGZhaXXX"'

Unless Ritlabs can change China, TheBat becomes unusable for business.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-06 Thread Gwen
Hello Thomas,

On Wed, 6 May 2020, at 14:59:03 [GMT +0700] (which was 09:59 where I
live) Thomas wrote:

>> That is a reported bug:
>> 0001791: From header with Qutoed_Printable not shown correct
>> https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1791

> Bugnote added.

Fine! Thanks.

-- 
Regards
Gwen

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-06 Thread Thomas Fernandez
Hello Gwen,

On Wed, 6 May 2020 09:22:18 +0200 GMT (06-May-20, 14:22 +0700 GMT),
Gwen wrote:

>> From, To and CC realnames are not displayed correctly in emails coming
>> from China. Examples:
>>
>> "=?gb18030?B?dGhvbWFzQGZhaXJhXNvLnRo?=" > "=?utf-8?B?dGhvbWFzQGZhaXJhbXLmNvLnRo?=" > (I have 'ed some characters for privacy reasons.)
>>
>> What may be the reason?

> That is a reported bug:
> 0001791: From header with Qutoed_Printable not shown correct
> https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1791

Bugnote added.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

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Re: Real names not displayed correctly

2020-05-06 Thread Gwen
Hello The,

On Wed, 6 May 2020, at 10:03:18 [GMT +0700] (which was 05:03 where I
live) Thomas wrote:

> From, To and CC realnames are not displayed correctly in emails coming
> from China. Examples:
>
> "=?gb18030?B?dGhvbWFzQGZhaXJhXNvLnRo?="  "=?utf-8?B?dGhvbWFzQGZhaXJhbXLmNvLnRo?="  (I have 'ed some characters for privacy reasons.)
>
> What may be the reason?

That is a reported bug:
0001791: From header with Qutoed_Printable not shown correct
https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1791



-- 
Regards
Gwen

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