[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

['c pa' via TiddlyWiki]

>> How do we handle the importing of Tiddlers with the same Title?

I have not looked at the twederation code but here's my 2 pfennings

The easiest way to do this without dependencies would be to do the following
1. The importing TiddlyWiki would assign a GUID (guid_tw_path) to the path 
to the tiddler from which the new tiddler is being imported
2. The importing TiddlyWiki would assign a GUID (guid_tw_tiddler) to the 
tiddler being imported
3. The importing TiddlyWiki creates a new tiddler that shadows the external 
tiddler (and copies its contents so it doesn't have to be imported every 
time?)
a. Assigns guid_tw_pathto the field"guid_tw_path"
b. Assigns guid_tw_tiddler to the field "title"
c. Assigns the foreign tiddler's title to a field called 
"twederation_title"
d. Alter the view template to display both title and  twederation_title 
with twederation_title emphasized if it exists

This way you have the following
1. A copy of the external tiddler available for offline use
2. A unique link from your TW to the foreign TW (GUID 1)
3. A unique Id for the foreign tiddler (GUID 2)
4. A unique id for the path from the local content to be able to refresh 
from the foreign TW (GUID1 + 2)
5. If the foreign TW renames the tiddler or edits it beyond recognition, 
local fallback content
6. The ability to cache or provide history for foreign changes etc. as an 
add on for controlling your content

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Josiah]

Jed. I want to make a simple reply to your "There is nothing forcing anyone 
to do anything" ... BUT, given what YOU have done, don't shy away from that 
IF it will make it run easier.

The whole thing is not so easy to get your head around. Not for idiots like 
me. I'm noticing its moved on a lot. And hopeful the full release will make 
clear sense. I kinda get the jist but I won't try it quite yet.

Best wishes
Josiah

On Tuesday, 19 July 2016 13:01:59 UTC+2, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> I think one of the problems that we are having with twederation is that we 
> aren't making a distinction between the process of technology of fetching 
> tiddlers from remote wikis and the application I built to use and test it. 
>
> They are separate things. The fetching part is designed to be modular so 
> you can build your own handler code for communication between wikis. If 
> doesn't have to be fetching tiddlers, I am not sure what else it would be, 
> but you can have it do something different. 
>
> For the application I built on this there is just a simple 
> blogging/threaded discussion forum. One thing people keep getting wrong is 
> that none of the handlers I wrote change anything about the tiddlers. The 
> titles are made unique when the tiddler is created on the original wiki, 
>  not when it is fetched by another wiki. That is all in the application 
> side of things. What tags and other metadata are included are also all on 
> the application side. 
>
> How you handle tiddlers with the same title is entirely on the application 
> side of things and already taken care of in what I made. If someone builds 
> some other application than how they handle potential conflicts is entirely 
> up to them and should be based on the specific use case. There is nothing 
> forcing anyone to do anything, just that if you want to use the application 
> I made you either follow the conventions established or you break 
> something. And the way I have it set now the titles visible to users aren't 
> the titles used by tiddlywiki when you use what I made so duplicate post 
> titles don't cause any trouble. Posts without titles don't cause problems 
> either, they look strange when they are displayed but if you don't want a 
> title that is up to you. 
>
> The way just about any tiddler in the twederation application is displayed 
> users templates, look at any of the twcards, they have no content in the 
> text field but they have visibly displayed data using templates. You can 
> create new templates to display them without modifying any of the days Inn 
> the tiddlers themselves. I have created multiple plugins that use this idea 
> for bookmarks, a library tracker and a contacts database. 
>
>

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Jed Carty]

I think one of the problems that we are having with twederation is that we 
aren't making a distinction between the process of technology of fetching 
tiddlers from remote wikis and the application I built to use and test it. 

They are separate things. The fetching part is designed to be modular so you 
can build your own handler code for communication between wikis. If doesn't 
have to be fetching tiddlers, I am not sure what else it would be, but you can 
have it do something different. 

For the application I built on this there is just a simple blogging/threaded 
discussion forum. One thing people keep getting wrong is that none of the 
handlers I wrote change anything about the tiddlers. The titles are made unique 
when the tiddler is created on the original wiki,  not when it is fetched by 
another wiki. That is all in the application side of things. What tags and 
other metadata are included are also all on the application side. 

How you handle tiddlers with the same title is entirely on the application side 
of things and already taken care of in what I made. If someone builds some 
other application than how they handle potential conflicts is entirely up to 
them and should be based on the specific use case. There is nothing forcing 
anyone to do anything, just that if you want to use the application I made you 
either follow the conventions established or you break something. And the way I 
have it set now the titles visible to users aren't the titles used by 
tiddlywiki when you use what I made so duplicate post titles don't cause any 
trouble. Posts without titles don't cause problems either, they look strange 
when they are displayed but if you don't want a title that is up to you. 

The way just about any tiddler in the twederation application is displayed 
users templates, look at any of the twcards, they have no content in the text 
field but they have visibly displayed data using templates. You can create new 
templates to display them without modifying any of the days Inn the tiddlers 
themselves. I have created multiple plugins that use this idea for bookmarks, a 
library tracker and a contacts database. 

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Mat]

Dragon Cotterill wrote:

Now one of the other thoughts I had was in the concept of data Tiddlers. I 
> know Mario wants to see all the data of any given Tiddler, but that's a 
> different matter. :) You should be able to have data WITHOUT the concept of 
> how it should be displayed, but use another Tiddler as the actual layout. 
> We have the ViewTemplate tiddler, but if you break that down to a smaller 
> level you can start to build up the Tiddlers to produce stronger concepts.
>

Unless I misunderstand what you're after; this is implemented in TW5 e.g by 
use of

{{||template}}

possibly also the TiddlerWidget  
(which, embarrassingly, I've not quite grasped yet)

 <:-)

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Mat]

On Sunday, July 17, 2016 at 1:13:24 AM UTC+2, Dragon Cotterill wrote:
>
> [...] For example how do we handle the importing of Tiddlers with the same 
> Title?
> I feel that it is very disingenuous to force users to create shared 
> Tiddlers with different names. At the moment we are doing this by adding 
> the creators name to the end of the Tiddler's Title. This I feel is a big 
> mistake. The naming of the Tiddlers should NOT be enforced like this. The 
> creator should be free to name them however they want. But of course this 
> throws a spanner in the works when names clash.
>

While I do also think universally unique IDs are a good idea, I think there 
are some misunderstandings (hopefully not on my side, but it may be!)

First, just to be clear; the user isn't forced to do anything manually - 
the titeling is created in the fetching-of-the-tiddler process. Second, and 
again just to prevent misunderstandings; it is not "the creators name" that 
is added but the unique identifier used in TWederation, namely the URL for 
the wiki. Third, there is also an addition of a time stamp as part of the 
title. So the tiddle becomes named something like

original title - URL - timestamp

(I might have the order wrong)

Now, it is in deed simple to *present* this name as only the original 
title. One way is the caption field as Eric mentions and another way might 
be my aliases  concept (it works but there 
are some minor tidbits I must straighten out.)

As I said though, unique hash key for each tiddler does seem sensible to 
me, but I have very limited experience in databases so I can't quite argue 
on the matter. In the pub discussion we had, at least Mario and I, there 
was however another point in this:

To use a tiddler ID as a way to track its origin. A kind of DNA as Mario 
put it. So that in (eg) an identifying character sequence, a few of the 
characters remain from the origin but other characters concern the current 
version of that tiddler. Mario will have to explain the details but it is a 
fascinating idea and it would perhaps enable us to create overviews of how 
tiddlers (e.g plugins) evolve. I think it would also be a way to "branch" 
and be able to automatically credit original authors better.


Tiddlers change. At present if a federated tiddler is changed, that change 
> is not propagated (or have misunderstood the workings of TWederation? 
> Mat?). If a parent tiddler is deleted, what becomes of the orphans? Yes, 
> there is still much to discuss on this.
>

You're right; no "propagation" since the whole idea centers around 
*fetching*, i.e copying a remote tiddler into your own TW but renaming the 
copy in the process. So there is no "propagation" unless you fetch *again*.

If a parent is deleted in your TW... well, then you have loose orphans just 
like if you have a tiddler tagged with some other tiddler title (or 
be-fielded with some other tiddler title) and delete that "parent". It is 
up to you what you do with the orphans, they're just normal tiddlers. We 
could easily create a batch-delete macro to delete a complete "discussion" 
(side note: "discussions" are just one use for TWederation. The general 
case is, I guess, simply "related tiddlers").

@Jed, @Jeremy - A serious problem if the ID is based on the title is; if I 
"fetch again"... but the tiddler has been renamed since last time... then 
what? There is no way to tell the renamed tiddler has anything to do with 
the old title. Or am I misunderstanding something?


<:-)

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Re: [tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Xavier Cazin]

Hi Dragon,

On Sunday, 17 July 2016 01:01:50 UTC+1, Josiah wrote:
>
> The title IS the index.
>>
>
> I agree. For single, stand alone TW's there is nothing better. It is
> intuitive for the user.
> But when it comes to sharing Tiddlers, you WILL get repeated names. What
> do you do then?
>

The title vs ID debate makes sense only because the user may want to change
the title, hence the ID, which indeed is difficult to handle. The caption
trick that Eric mentionned is quite an efficient workaround, since when the
user wants to change a title, it mostly wants to change *the way the title
is printed*.

Now, I fail to see your point for TWederation. Once a tiddler is shared, it
is not the tiddler itself that appears on the wall of subscribers, but a
copy, moreover a readonly copy. So by just adding a namespace (the url of
the origin site, rather than the poster name I guess) to the title has the
virtue of making it unique among federated tiddlers, while keeping the
possibility to be *printed* so that it ressemble the original tiddler (by
masking the namespace). I'm I missing something?

Cheers,
Xavier.

>
> On Sunday, 17 July 2016 02:08:11 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure if the hashing is necessary for internal use. In most
>> databases, it is sufficient to simply assign an incremented value to an id
>> field. For sharing with other tiddlers, (as in federation), of course, it
>> becomes necessary to include some sort of database ID as well (like a hash
>> of the database address).
>>
>
> But if you have two TW's with incrementing numbers... again you will have
> matching numbers.
>
>
> On Sunday, 17 July 2016 06:28:07 UTC+1, codacoder...@outlook.com wrote:
>>
>> No to users creating them. Ever.
>>
>
> Yes. Users should never create them. They should be created by TW and
> internal.
>
>
>>  They should be GUIDs.
>>Not concatenated titles+dates or anything related to existing tiddler
>> data. This will likely fail and scale poorly.
>>
>
> Not a hash of the title. A hash of the TW's URL (or file path) and a hash
> of the date/time concatenated.
>
>
>>They must be created "behind the scenes",  but easily
>> discovered/usable by experienced users.
>>
>
> Yes indeed. I see you come from the same thoughts as me on this.
>
>
> I'm not saying that people should use the GUID as a matter of course. The
> Title of the Tiddler would always be the main linking point. But for
> TWederated Tiddlers there will be issues where this will fail. Yes we could
> keep using the Title and have some other mechanism in place, so clicking a
> link to two imported tiddlers with the same name either opens both, or
> prompts you for which one you meant. But responses to tiddlers would get
> messy.
>
>
> There can be no denying that what Mat and Jeb have done with TWederation
> is a great idea and with the work they did over the weekend it proved it
> has a permanent home in the TW realm, but unless steps are taken at this
> early stage to address things like this it could open up a world of
> problems.
>
>
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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Dragon Cotterill]

On Sunday, 17 July 2016 01:01:50 UTC+1, Josiah wrote:
>
> The title IS the index.
>

I agree. For single, stand alone TW's there is nothing better. It is 
intuitive for the user.
But when it comes to sharing Tiddlers, you WILL get repeated names. What do 
you do then?

On Sunday, 17 July 2016 02:08:11 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if the hashing is necessary for internal use. In most 
> databases, it is sufficient to simply assign an incremented value to an id 
> field. For sharing with other tiddlers, (as in federation), of course, it 
> becomes necessary to include some sort of database ID as well (like a hash 
> of the database address).
>

But if you have two TW's with incrementing numbers... again you will have 
matching numbers.
 

On Sunday, 17 July 2016 06:28:07 UTC+1, codacoder...@outlook.com wrote:
>
> No to users creating them. Ever.
>

Yes. Users should never create them. They should be created by TW and 
internal.
 

>  They should be GUIDs.
>Not concatenated titles+dates or anything related to existing tiddler 
> data. This will likely fail and scale poorly.
>

Not a hash of the title. A hash of the TW's URL (or file path) and a hash 
of the date/time concatenated.
 

>They must be created "behind the scenes",  but easily discovered/usable 
> by experienced users.
>

Yes indeed. I see you come from the same thoughts as me on this.


I'm not saying that people should use the GUID as a matter of course. The 
Title of the Tiddler would always be the main linking point. But for 
TWederated Tiddlers there will be issues where this will fail. Yes we could 
keep using the Title and have some other mechanism in place, so clicking a 
link to two imported tiddlers with the same name either opens both, or 
prompts you for which one you meant. But responses to tiddlers would get 
messy.


There can be no denying that what Mat and Jeb have done with TWederation is 
a great idea and with the work they did over the weekend it proved it has a 
permanent home in the TW realm, but unless steps are taken at this early 
stage to address things like this it could open up a world of problems.
 

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[codacodercodacoder]

My 2 cents...

Yes to IDs.

No to users creating them. Ever.

 They should be GUIDs.
   Not concatenated titles+dates or anything related to existing tiddler 
data. This will likely fail and scale poorly.
   They must be created "behind the scenes",  but easily discovered/usable 
by experienced users.

Linking should support both titles and GUIDs (either/or)
  Contract: GUID links are robust and must therefore work in any environment
  Contract: titles are "optimistic" and "best effort, good faith" attempts 
at succeeding. In a standalone TW, they'll be as good as they are already.

Eric's "caption" approach is equivalent to my "subtitle" approach. Works 
fine for a TW-book edition I'm developing (very slowly, not published yet). 
And it works fine in the context ("domain") I'm trying to support (no js 
required!).  My Chapters and sections have ID-like titles. My subtitles are 
stored in a subtitle field.

If you're going to TWederate (publish) a given tiddler, I can imagine a 
routine that trawls the text looking for links that do NOT carry a GUID... 
and warn against potential breakages before allowing you to proceed <- off 
the cuff brainfart ;)

Like I said, my 0.02


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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Josiah]

eric

yeah, its long schlepp around.  :-)

On Sunday, 17 July 2016 03:26:20 UTC+2, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
> On Saturday, July 16, 2016 at 6:08:11 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I'm with you on needing a unique identifier -- every real database uses 
>> unique id's.   I was surprised that it wasn't in the TW5 design.
>>
>> I would go further and say that linking *should* occur by ID. The thing 
>> about IDs is that they are immutable. The thing about titles is that they 
>> *change* all the time. Currently, if you change a title, you have to go 
>> back and change every single linking item. This means editing and changing 
>> the mod date of possibly dozens of linked tiddlers. The alternative is that 
>> you are stuck with a non-informative tiddler title possibly for the rest of 
>> the life of the project.
>>
>
> One way to address this is to use the *caption* field as the tiddler's 
> visible "title" (by tweaking the view template), which would allow you to 
> use the real *title* field to hold a unique ID.  There may be a few other 
> places in the core that would need tweaking to also show the caption text 
> (e.g. the contents of tag popups), but it shouldn't be too difficult.
>
> -e
>
>

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Eric Shulman]

On Saturday, July 16, 2016 at 6:08:11 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I'm with you on needing a unique identifier -- every real database uses 
> unique id's.   I was surprised that it wasn't in the TW5 design.
>
> I would go further and say that linking *should* occur by ID. The thing 
> about IDs is that they are immutable. The thing about titles is that they 
> *change* all the time. Currently, if you change a title, you have to go 
> back and change every single linking item. This means editing and changing 
> the mod date of possibly dozens of linked tiddlers. The alternative is that 
> you are stuck with a non-informative tiddler title possibly for the rest of 
> the life of the project.
>

One way to address this is to use the *caption* field as the tiddler's 
visible "title" (by tweaking the view template), which would allow you to 
use the real *title* field to hold a unique ID.  There may be a few other 
places in the core that would need tweaking to also show the caption text 
(e.g. the contents of tag popups), but it shouldn't be too difficult.

-e

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[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I'm with you on needing a unique identifier -- every real database uses 
unique id's.   I was surprised that it wasn't in the TW5 design.

I would go further and say that linking *should* occur by ID. The thing 
about IDs is that they are immutable. The thing about titles is that they 
*change* all the time. Currently, if you change a title, you have to go 
back and change every single linking item. This means editing and changing 
the mod date of possibly dozens of linked tiddlers. The alternative is that 
you are stuck with a non-informative tiddler title possibly for the rest of 
the life of the project.

I'm not sure if the hashing is necessary for internal use. In most 
databases, it is sufficient to simply assign an incremented value to an id 
field. For sharing with other tiddlers, (as in federation), of course, it 
becomes necessary to include some sort of database ID as well (like a hash 
of the database address).

On the topic of data tiddlers I'm not sure what you mean. You can already 
use a macro or other mechanism to display the contents of a data tiddler. 
The main problem is that there is only one root object, which means much of 
the data is hidden in complicated structures.

Mark


On Saturday, July 16, 2016 at 4:13:24 PM UTC-7, Dragon Cotterill wrote:
>
> This is just a quick list of some of the thoughts following on from 
> conversations with Mat and Mario at the Pub after the TWEU Meetup. As with 
> any Pub conversations it is likely that most of these ideas will fall by 
> the wayside, but some of the ideas have got me thinking and it's worth 
> getting them logged whilst they are fresh in my mind.
>
> There can be no doubt that TW is a really great concept. But now that 
> we're joining them together (by TWederation) we are going to run into some 
> seriously big road blocks if we're not careful. For example how do we 
> handle the importing of Tiddlers with the same Title?
> I feel that it is very disingenuous to force users to create shared 
> Tiddlers with different names. At the moment we are doing this by adding 
> the creators name to the end of the Tiddler's Title. This I feel is a big 
> mistake. The naming of the Tiddlers should NOT be enforced like this. The 
> creator should be free to name them however they want. But of course this 
> throws a spanner in the works when names clash.
>
> What we need is a unique way of identifying the Tiddler that is visible to 
> TW, but not necessarily to the users. Pretty much every database system has 
> a Key or a Unique ID and I think we need the same.
> Now I know that Jeremy would say that your should be able to link to the 
> Tiddler via the Title, and I fully agree. In any given TW the Title is 
> unique (Shadows not withstanding). So that is the link you would use when 
> linking to them in a given instance. But when a TW is federated, with the 
> same name, which "New Tiddler" do you mean? Because they should all be 
> available.
>
> I propose that each TW should have a UID. It should be comprised of the 
> hash of the URL of the TW, and the hash of the date/time when it was 
> created. And that ID should stay with it for the life of it's existence. 
> Even if it's federated into a new TW, then the ID stays. The only time it 
> should gain a new ID is if it was copied, the copy getting a new UID.
>
> Now when it comes to TWederation, the structure is clear. HASH1 is the 
> parent. HASH2, HASH3 are children of the parent, HASH4 is the child of 
> HASH3. Using this it is very clear how the individual tiddlers should be 
> displayed, now matter what the actual content of them. If a Tiddler is a 
> reply, then it has a parent. If no parent, it's a top level entry.
> Tiddlers change. At present if a federated tiddler is changed, that change 
> is not propagated (or have misunderstood the workings of TWederation? 
> Mat?). If a parent tiddler is deleted, what becomes of the orphans? Yes, 
> there is still much to discuss on this.
>
>
> Now one of the other thoughts I had was in the concept of data Tiddlers. I 
> know Mario wants to see all the data of any given Tiddler, but that's a 
> different matter. :) You should be able to have data WITHOUT the concept of 
> how it should be displayed, but use another Tiddler as the actual layout. 
> We have the ViewTemplate tiddler, but if you break that down to a smaller 
> level you can start to build up the Tiddlers to produce stronger concepts.
> At present TW is geared around Text components. Title, Text and Tags as 
> core values (yes I suppose created, modified and change count are other 
> values too). TW Classic has the Data Plugin ( 
> http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/#DataTiddlerPlugin ) which kind of 
> uses this concept. TW5 allows you to add further fields relatively easily. 
> But what if you took it further?
> By opening up TW to the concept of data you could really build up 
> applications. For example a remote weather station server simply outputs a 
> raw tiddler stream of 

[tw] Re: Random Thoughts about the new version of TW.

[Josiah]

Ciao Mr Dragon

"There can be no doubt that TW is a really great concept"

TW is NOT a concept. It exists.

Titling in TW is a pain in the arse. But that is not a "federation" issue.

In the best of worlds every Tiddler would have a unique number so you could 
title many tiddlers the same. As is it won't work.The title IS the index.

Josiah



On Sunday, 17 July 2016 01:13:24 UTC+2, Dragon Cotterill wrote:
>
> This is just a quick list of some of the thoughts following on from 
> conversations with Mat and Mario at the Pub after the TWEU Meetup. As with 
> any Pub conversations it is likely that most of these ideas will fall by 
> the wayside, but some of the ideas have got me thinking and it's worth 
> getting them logged whilst they are fresh in my mind.
>
> There can be no doubt that TW is a really great concept. But now that 
> we're joining them together (by TWederation) we are going to run into some 
> seriously big road blocks if we're not careful. For example how do we 
> handle the importing of Tiddlers with the same Title?
> I feel that it is very disingenuous to force users to create shared 
> Tiddlers with different names. At the moment we are doing this by adding 
> the creators name to the end of the Tiddler's Title. This I feel is a big 
> mistake. The naming of the Tiddlers should NOT be enforced like this. The 
> creator should be free to name them however they want. But of course this 
> throws a spanner in the works when names clash.
>
> What we need is a unique way of identifying the Tiddler that is visible to 
> TW, but not necessarily to the users. Pretty much every database system has 
> a Key or a Unique ID and I think we need the same.
> Now I know that Jeremy would say that your should be able to link to the 
> Tiddler via the Title, and I fully agree. In any given TW the Title is 
> unique (Shadows not withstanding). So that is the link you would use when 
> linking to them in a given instance. But when a TW is federated, with the 
> same name, which "New Tiddler" do you mean? Because they should all be 
> available.
>
> I propose that each TW should have a UID. It should be comprised of the 
> hash of the URL of the TW, and the hash of the date/time when it was 
> created. And that ID should stay with it for the life of it's existence. 
> Even if it's federated into a new TW, then the ID stays. The only time it 
> should gain a new ID is if it was copied, the copy getting a new UID.
>
> Now when it comes to TWederation, the structure is clear. HASH1 is the 
> parent. HASH2, HASH3 are children of the parent, HASH4 is the child of 
> HASH3. Using this it is very clear how the individual tiddlers should be 
> displayed, now matter what the actual content of them. If a Tiddler is a 
> reply, then it has a parent. If no parent, it's a top level entry.
> Tiddlers change. At present if a federated tiddler is changed, that change 
> is not propagated (or have misunderstood the workings of TWederation? 
> Mat?). If a parent tiddler is deleted, what becomes of the orphans? Yes, 
> there is still much to discuss on this.
>
>
> Now one of the other thoughts I had was in the concept of data Tiddlers. I 
> know Mario wants to see all the data of any given Tiddler, but that's a 
> different matter. :) You should be able to have data WITHOUT the concept of 
> how it should be displayed, but use another Tiddler as the actual layout. 
> We have the ViewTemplate tiddler, but if you break that down to a smaller 
> level you can start to build up the Tiddlers to produce stronger concepts.
> At present TW is geared around Text components. Title, Text and Tags as 
> core values (yes I suppose created, modified and change count are other 
> values too). TW Classic has the Data Plugin ( 
> http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/#DataTiddlerPlugin ) which kind of 
> uses this concept. TW5 allows you to add further fields relatively easily. 
> But what if you took it further?
> By opening up TW to the concept of data you could really build up 
> applications. For example a remote weather station server simply outputs a 
> raw tiddler stream of weather data. You can TWederate that data straight in 
> to get an idea of rainfall. Others could get the exact same data but be 
> more concerned with wind speed and direction. Or both. Or temperature.
> You would write a macro which would take all of the data and display it 
> using the layout of another Tiddler. An iteration over that list would give 
> us a simple table. Another version would format it for feeding into a chart 
> (HighCharts anyone?) Or a data connector that changes it in some way to 
> feed into other components (temperature delta over time? Temp vs Rain?)
> This would give us an extremely powerful, dashboard like configuration.
>
>
>
> As I said, these are just some random thoughts, typed up on a train 
> journey back to London after the TWEU Meetup. They need refining in so many 
> ways, but I feel that they may have some merits.
>
> Discuss...