[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

BTC

> SelectMode has become a bit more complicated to handle... all the 
> different cases users may want.
> I haven't got that much feedback about it so I'm not that sure if the 
> modes are worth the work.
>

What I would say is that your own model is likely a huge step already.

As one of the end-users who tends to always ask for more because it is 
invited it does not mean I think I'm right. I mean: YOU are the developer.

Its an interesting issue--you tend to invite early comment which I think is 
very good. On the other hand I don't think its so good if it gives you a 
headache.

Regarding scale of decent feedback: I have to say its more likely we simply 
do not have enough active users reading and commenting on GG. Its not lack 
of interest. Its basic lack of numbers, IMO.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> BTC
>
>> SelectMode has become a bit more complicated to handle. If I'd make it 
>> just for myself it would be easy - I wouldn't consider all the different 
>> cases users may want. I haven't got that much feedback about it so I'm not 
>> that sure if the modes are worth the work
>>
>
> An admission of guilt: I got totally confused about what was SelectMode & 
> KeeBoord ... I thought they were the same thing.
>
> Josiah 
>

No, they are two different things. SelectMode builds on top of the KeeBoord 
functionality. It creates those "Modes" where only a selected set of 
Keyboard shortcuts is enabled. A Story mode for story interaction, a 
Sidebar mode for sidebar interaction.
When a mode is active, single keys like "J" "E" ... trigger actions. That 
simplifies and speeds up activation of actions.

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

BTC

> SelectMode has become a bit more complicated to handle. If I'd make it 
> just for myself it would be easy - I wouldn't consider all the different 
> cases users may want. I haven't got that much feedback about it so I'm not 
> that sure if the modes are worth the work
>

An admission of guilt: I got totally confused about what was SelectMode & 
KeeBoord ... I thought they were the same thing.

Josiah 

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> I know you are still working on this gorgeous tool and the infrastructure 
> for developing and distributing it. I have tested the tool on your demo 
> several times. I gratefully request this with no expectations: I would like 
> to get a feel for it on my own wiki and actually begin using it in 
> production to develop more opinions about it. It might be a while before I 
> get to do that I realize. Unfortunately, I don't know how to insert this 
> into my wiki (although, I have tried a couple times). If and when you are 
> ready, would you give me a set of instructions to insert this into my wiki 
> (I'd like to be able to remove or modify it as this plugin develops)? It 
> doesn't need to be a single drag and drop plugin; I'll work with whatever 
> instructions you can give me. Obviously, you owe me nothing, and you can 
> (and should) just tell me to figure it out for myself (you're already being 
> generous to let us see your source). 
>
> Hi h0p3 and thanks, it's motivating that there's interest in this 
functionality.
Currently I'm moving the KeeBoord plugin to a new location: 
https://github.com/BurningTreeC/KeeBoord
The SelectMode functionality will also find its place on github.
KeeBoord is almost done and it's a question of days for its first github 
release. A dedicated github page for drag installation will follow.

SelectMode has become a bit more complicated to handle. If I'd make it just 
for myself it would be easy - I wouldn't consider all the different cases 
users may want.
I haven't got that much feedback about it so I'm not that sure if the modes 
are worth the work

Anyways, these things are progressing and when I'm ready I'll leave a post 
here :)

BTC

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[h0p3]

I know you are still working on this gorgeous tool and the infrastructure 
for developing and distributing it. I have tested the tool on your demo 
several times. I gratefully request this with no expectations: I would like 
to get a feel for it on my own wiki and actually begin using it in 
production to develop more opinions about it. It might be a while before I 
get to do that I realize. Unfortunately, I don't know how to insert this 
into my wiki (although, I have tried a couple times). When you are ready, 
would you give me a set of instructions to insert this into my wiki (I'd 
like to be able to remove or modify it as this plugin develops)? It doesn't 
need to be a single drag and drop plugin; I'll work with whatever 
instructions you can give me.


On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 10:04:10 AM UTC-4, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hi community,
> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within 
> tiddlywiki I've created
> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon 
> be available for drag installation
>
> Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great 
> help.
> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. 
> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>
> I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the 
> tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
> you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
>
> all the best,
> BurningTreeC
>

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[h0p3]

Those popups are neat. I'm not sure how I'm going to use them yet.

On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 8:45:22 AM UTC-4, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> A small note on my chosen Shortcuts:
>
> I've discovered that on Chrome the Button right beneath "L" gets 
> recognized as "Backquote" - on Firefox (latest) it is "FirefoxSemicolon" or 
> something like that
> I'm using "J" and "Backquote" to go next/previous like I'm used from my 
> desktop's window manager (i3/sway). On selectmode.tiddlyspot.com you can 
> change those shortcuts in the ControlPanel so that they fit your browser's 
> idea of the correct name for your keys :P
>
> Have a good day, BTC
>

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[Mohammad]

Thank you BTC,
 Please inform here us when you uploaded the last version of KeeBoord 
plugin to github.

Best

-Mohammad

On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 8:45:02 AM UTC+4:30, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hello BTC,
>>  Is there any update or change in original KeeBoord! I use it in some 
>> application!
>> I appreciate if you let me know if I KeeBoord will be available in 
>> standalone mode!
>>
>> /Mohammad
>>
>
> Hi Mohammad, in the KeeBoord functionality itself only a small part has 
> changed. It's not updated on the KeeBoord plugin page and on SelectMode 
> neither.
> I want to move it to a github page because I keep forgetting my older 
> tiddlyspot passwords. So KeeBoord will move to a github page I think, and 
> SelectMode, too.
> KeeBoord already is a standalone plugin.
>
> For SelectMode I've changed some tiddlywiki shadow tiddlers that I had 
> already changed for KeeBoord. The changes are for refreshing the keyboard 
> widget in certain cases (when text-editor key combinations change for 
> example),
> changes on the link widget, so that navigating the sidebar lists with the 
> keyboard scrolls the view, and some other tweaks.
>
> BTC
>

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

A small note on my chosen Shortcuts:

I've discovered that on Chrome the Button right beneath "L" gets recognized 
as "Backquote" - on Firefox (latest) it is "FirefoxSemicolon" or something 
like that
I'm using "J" and "Backquote" to go next/previous like I'm used from my 
desktop's window manager (i3/sway). On selectmode.tiddlyspot.com you can 
change those shortcuts in the ControlPanel so that they fit your browser's 
idea of the correct name for your keys :P

Have a good day, BTC

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> Hello BTC,
>  Is there any update or change in original KeeBoord! I use it in some 
> application!
> I appreciate if you let me know if I KeeBoord will be available in 
> standalone mode!
>
> /Mohammad
>

Hi Mohammad, in the KeeBoord functionality itself only a small part has 
changed. It's not updated on the KeeBoord plugin page and on SelectMode 
neither.
I want to move it to a github page because I keep forgetting my older 
tiddlyspot passwords. So KeeBoord will move to a github page I think, and 
SelectMode, too.
KeeBoord already is a standalone plugin.

For SelectMode I've changed some tiddlywiki shadow tiddlers that I had 
already changed for KeeBoord. The changes are for refreshing the keyboard 
widget in certain cases (when text-editor key combinations change for 
example),
changes on the link widget, so that navigating the sidebar lists with the 
keyboard scrolls the view, and some other tweaks.

BTC

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[Mohammad]

Hello BTC,
 Is there any update or change in original KeeBoord! I use it in some 
application!
I appreciate if you let me know if I KeeBoord will be available in 
standalone mode!

/Mohammad

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

Hi, I'm back with some updates on this front:

I'm splitting SelectMode into "Story" and "Sidebar" Modes.
It can already be tested on selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
The new sidebar mode lets you cycle through the sidebar tabs and enables 
specific actions for the currently open tab. At the moment only the 
"Recent" tab has actions defined (selecting a tiddler from the list and 
opening it in the story river) - but I'll add actions for the other tabs, 
too

Activate sidebar-mode using "alt-Right" or "alt-Backquote" (which is 
alt-Odiaeresis on my german keyboard)
In sidebar-mode, use "T" to cycle through the tabs
In the recent tab, use "J" or "Left" to select the tiddler above the 
selected one and "Backquote" or "Right" to select the one after the 
currently selected one. "Enter" opens the selected tiddler.
Note that those shortcuts are only enabled when the "Recent" tab is 
selected, which allows for using the same keys for the different tabs, but 
with different actions.

BTC

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[TonyM]

Folks,

I know you are discussing keyboard access to search here but I just wanted 
to comment that "search" is increasingly being used as a fundamental tool 
within environments, whilst we have the search operator and filters, even 
regex in tiddlywiki and or its plugins it is not very mature from a usage 
perspective. If one is reporting, or even listing content in your wikis 
design search can be a powerful solution and in my view we have not yet 
explored that far enough. Search can make navigation easier (its common 
use) but it can also simplify dealing with sets of data and even defining 
the content of sets we later process further. 

Of course we must also be careful not to rely on search so much that we 
diminish the value of structured and tagged data handling.

Part of improving search is to make its use much more easily accessible, 
and reusable such as searches with saved filters opening or reducing the 
scope of the search.

Regards
Tony
 

> @DemoniWaari also mentioned this search-functionality. I think I'll add 
>> the quick-search by keyboard function and then we can discuss the content 
>> of the search results...
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback and thoughts! 
>>
> I am very excited by this. I think it is actually an entirely different 
> problem than keyboard navigation, and arguably an even larger problem. It 
> would, of course, be an enormous contribution. Advanced search that a user 
> can easily tailor to the structures they build in their own wiki is 
> necessary. This is where the flexibility of Tiddlywiki may continue to 
> shine for a long time to come.
>

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[h0p3]

  

I actually want to go further with this keyboard-centered approach. There's 
the sidebar that can be made key-boardable, too... basically everything 
that forces me to use my mouse where under i3 I'd always just press a 
shortcut is a target for select-mode.

I think you're right that something like this should be in TW's codebase. 

Agreed! We've talked about the sidebar before. I have very strong opinions 
about the sidebar. 

I know how I would like to navigate my sidebar right now (although, I'd 
probably change my method with more complex tooling), but I fear I am too 
specific (and don't know how to generalize it for everyone's usecases). 

I want to use a hotkey to enter "sidebar mode," select tabs from hotkeys, 
and perhaps have a mode for each tab. For example, on my Hub (
https://philosopher.life/#Hub:Hub), I want to step up and down through the 
major sections, and then select from the links inside those lists. 

As far as I'm concerned, the sidebar is fundamental to navigating the wiki, 
and salient navigation of complex structures is what a wiki is all about. 
Keyboard control of it is necessary to allow me to "load" tiddlers into my 
story river.

I tried that nodejs-approach but the missing live-reload killed it for me. 

YES! There are a lot of problems surrounding it.

To me, this is the one of the key areas in which Tiddlywiki could make a 
quantum leap. The browser's VM continues to be tightened again and again, 
and running a server is literally the only option around it. Unfortunately, 
I believe it's computationally unoptimized. I blow a whole core just to 
recompile every minute with nodejs. JS makes this beautiful in the browser, 
but the server itself needs another language, imho.

I'd want edit priority given to the CLI. 

This is no small task though, and I think most people have no use for it 
(at least initially).

@DemoniWaari also mentioned this search-functionality. I think I'll add the 
quick-search by keyboard function and then we can discuss the content of 
the search results...

Thanks for your feedback and thoughts! 

I am very excited by this. I think it is actually an entirely different 
problem than keyboard navigation, and arguably an even larger problem. It 
would, of course, be an enormous contribution. Advanced search that a user 
can easily tailor to the structures they build in their own wiki is 
necessary. This is where the flexibility of Tiddlywiki may continue to 
shine for a long time to come.

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[DemoniWaari]

You already can move tiddlers one slot next, one slot previous. Look at the 
> shortcut at the selectmode page ($:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-movenext 
> and  $:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-moveprevious)
>
 
Oh I missed that! Works great. 


>> EDIT: Also noticed that if I press e to edit a tiddler, then ctrl+enter 
>> to save it, I can't get back to select mode with shift-space. I need to 
>> click something (a tiddler for instance) and only then I can get back to 
>> select mode with shift-space.
>>
>> Thanks for reporting, I tried on Linux with Chrome, TiddlyDesktop and 
> Firefox latest and couldn't reproduce this. What's your operating system 
> and browser?
>

I'm using Firefox 52.9.0 under Windows 7.

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao BTC

A quick point that came to me reading over the latest posts.

Just my opinion, but would "K" (for keyboard / keys) be better than "S" 
(for select)?

I don't think it ultimately matters much, but IMO this is stuff I do via 
the Keyboard. "Select" is broader. A select to me is an item I could select 
(option), or highlighting text (for copy).

Just a thought
Josiah 

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> This post turned out longer than I expected. You'll have to forgive me if 
> what I'm saying is weird or not useful to you. I'm thinking outloud. I want 
> you to know, I love the tool you are building, and I'm intensely grateful.
>

Thanks! 

> You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when 
>> editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in 
>> select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
>>
> Making shortcuts to target features for any focused tiddler is a damned 
> good idea. I don't know how far you are going with this, and I might have 
> the wrong vision. Building a framework to control a variety of standard 
> components (perhaps beyond what you have already) of Tiddlywiki through a 
> keyboard might be worthwhile. The more I think about this, the more I'm 
> convinced some version of your plugin should be in Tiddlywiki's primary 
> codebase (I always wonder if some aspects of the code will eventually go 
> WASM, but that may defeat the purpose).
>

I actually want to go further with this keyboard-centered approach. There's 
the sidebar that can be made key-boardable, too... basically everything 
that forces me to use my mouse where under i3 I'd always just press a 
shortcut is a target for select-mode.

I think you're right that something like this should be in TW's codebase.
 

> Your tool is a hack for me. It allows to navigate and organize large 
> workflows by hand, which is the intended purpose, but more importantly, it 
> allows me to leverage non-JS ecosystems without NPM. I really do want to 
> keep Tiddlywiki as self-contained as possible inside a single HTML file. 
> That's what is truly magic about it. The moment I'm leaving the browser to 
> run NPM though, I feel like I should just be using some other tool besides 
> Tiddlywiki (this may just be my incompetence though).
>

I tried that nodejs-approach but the missing live-reload killed it for me.
 

> I think I'm going to abuse your tool in a way that is simply the result of 
> me not being able to figure out how to write my own JS modifications of the 
> wiki. To me, you are giving us platform agnostic controls over the wiki, a 
> ghetto API to a magical blackbox meant for skiddies like me.
>
> Back when I used Windows, I was an AutoHotKey fan. In many cases, I might 
> not want or be able to touch the memory of a program, but I can 
> programmatically tell you how to interact with it from the keyboard and 
> mouse. Your tool may be a bridge for me. I'm interested in integrating a 
> lot of python and bash (actually, xonsh) scripts into my TW. For example, I 
> now use a tool that sanitizes my clipboard with replacements and pastes 
> (because I have to move data from other programs through clipboard often 
> enough). I also have a script which takes a list of tiddlers from "New" and 
> organizes them into a nested list structure that I consistently use as a 
> template. Automating tiddler creation, templating, and other processes 
> through the keyboard may give me the Rube-Goldberg machine I always dreamed 
> of. Thank you. =)
>
> If Tiddlywiki is a specialized self-contained VMed OS in my browser 
> (Zawinski's law, give me the ability to decentrally mail tiddlers!), then 
> maybe you're building some kind of visual commandline (I wonder what a 
> console would look like in Tiddlywiki; a true commandline could be very 
> powerful). I hope to read titles, xonsh parse and massage data, and use 
> your tool to manually edit Tiddlywiki through xdotool and i3msgs. I can do 
> this through NPM, but it requires decompiling and recompiling the 
> Tiddlywiki (which I may just be forced to accept in the end); it has not 
> been foolproof for me either. 
>
> On a side note, I'm forced to use this: 
> https://philosopher.life/#%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview:%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview,
>  
> a tool to disable toolbars, in order to maintain the font I want to have in 
> the editor itself. Is this going to be a huge monkeywrench?
>
> My claim might be dumb, and perhaps it should not have any influence on 
> what you are constructing because this is just one person's oddball 
> usecase. I'll leave that up to you.
>
> How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it 
>> search for... ?
>>
> I want to open search from keyboard, type stuff in, and use my keyboard to 
> quickly navigate through the list. Currently, it has very poor 
> highlighting, I must use Tab and Ctrl+Tab to move through the list (would 
> love more options), and I have to Tab quite a bit to actually get to 
> navigating the list in the first place. I suppose I may just fix this 
> myself though (the highlighting I cannot).
>
> Some of the work that others to do with tagging I choose to do with titles 
> (so far, I'm not seeing why I should switch over to tags, but I may be 
> blind here). Eventually, I aim to be able to search by title and then 
> search for 

[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> Looks really nice, can't wait to get the tag selection stuff. 
>
> Couple of things: How about making a shortcut for the search bar? Would be 
> great to ctrl+f, type my stuff, tab tab enter, my tiddler pops up, press e 
> and get straight to editing it. Also would it be hard to get re-ordering of 
> a selected tiddler? So if I have three tiddlers tid1 tid2 and tid3 in that 
> order and I select tid3 and press a shortcut (e.g. shift up) and then the 
> order would be tid1 tid3 tid2 and then selecting tid1 and pressing e.g. 
> shift down would then give me order of tid3 tid1 tid2. 
>

The shortcut for the search-bar is not that difficult, you can try it on 
keeboord.tiddlyspot.com (shortcut: alt-S). Selecting the dropdown items 
then would need to use the same mechanism as selecting the tags in the 
tags-dropdown. I'm working on that and will probably also add this 
search-functionality.

You already can move tiddlers one slot next, one slot previous. Look at the 
shortcut at the selectmode page ($:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-movenext 
and  $:/KeyboardShortcut/select-mode-moveprevious)

>
> I think that the visualization that preople have here been talking about 
> sounds good, though for me a simple border on my tiddlers (perhaps slightly 
> more easy to see, red border maybe?) is enough.
>

Hm.. will be difficult to find something that everyone likes, that's why I 
just use 1px solid black and users can change it how they want. I'll add a 
simple how-to, it's easy 

>
> EDIT: Also noticed that if I press e to edit a tiddler, then ctrl+enter to 
> save it, I can't get back to select mode with shift-space. I need to click 
> something (a tiddler for instance) and only then I can get back to select 
> mode with shift-space.
>
> Thanks for reporting, I tried on Linux with Chrome, TiddlyDesktop and 
Firefox latest and couldn't reproduce this. What's your operating system 
and browser?

BTC
 

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[DemoniWaari]

Looks really nice, can't wait to get the tag selection stuff. 

Couple of things: How about making a shortcut for the search bar? Would be 
great to ctrl+f, type my stuff, tab tab enter, my tiddler pops up, press e 
and get straight to editing it. Also would it be hard to get re-ordering of 
a selected tiddler? So if I have three tiddlers tid1 tid2 and tid3 in that 
order and I select tid3 and press a shortcut (e.g. shift up) and then the 
order would be tid1 tid3 tid2 and then selecting tid1 and pressing e.g. 
shift down would then give me order of tid3 tid1 tid2. 

I think that the visualization that preople have here been talking about 
sounds good, though for me a simple border on my tiddlers (perhaps slightly 
more easy to see, red border maybe?) is enough.

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 5:04:10 PM UTC+3, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hi community,
> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within 
> tiddlywiki I've created
> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon 
> be available for drag installation
>
> Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great 
> help.
> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. 
> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>
> I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the 
> tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
> you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
>
> all the best,
> BurningTreeC
>

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[h0p3]

This post turned out longer than I expected. You'll have to forgive me if 
what I'm saying is weird or not useful to you. I'm thinking outloud. I want 
you to know, I love the tool you are building, and I'm intensely grateful. 

You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when 
> editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in 
> select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
>
Making shortcuts to target features for any focused tiddler is a damned 
good idea. I don't know how far you are going with this, and I might have 
the wrong vision. Building a framework to control as many standard 
components of Tiddlywiki through a keyboard might be worthwhile. The more I 
think about this, the more I'm convinced some version of your plugin should 
be in Tiddlywiki's primary codebase (I always wonder if some aspects of the 
code will eventually go WASM, but that may defeat the purpose).

Your tool is a hack for me. It allows to navigate and organize large 
workflows by hand, which is the intended purpose, but more importantly, it 
allows me to leverage non-JS ecosystems without NPM. I really do want to 
keep Tiddlywiki as self-contained as possible inside a single HTML. That's 
what is truly magic about it. The moment I'm leaving the browser to run NPM 
though, I feel like I should just be using some other tool besides 
Tiddlywiki (this may just be my incompetence though).

I think I'm going to abuse your tool in a way that is simply the result of 
me not being able to figure out how to write my own JS modifications of the 
wiki. To me, you are giving us platform agnostic controls over the wiki, a 
ghetto API to a magical blackbox meant for skiddies like me.


Back when I used Windows, I was an AutoHotKey fan. In many cases, I might 
not want or be able to touch the memory of a program, but I can 
programmatically tell you how to interact with it from the keyboard and 
mouse. Your tool may be a bridge for me. I'm interested in integrating a 
lot of python and bash (actually, xonsh) scripts into my TW. For example, I 
now use a tool that sanitizes my clipboard with replacements and pastes 
(because I have to move data from other programs through clipboard often 
enough). I also have a script which takes a list of tiddlers from "New" and 
organizes them into a nested list structure that I consistently use as a 
template. Automating tiddler creation, templating, and other processes 
through the keyboard may give me the Rube-Goldberg machine I always dreamed 
of. Thank you. =)


If Tiddlywiki is a specialized self-contained VMed OS in my browser 
(Zawinski's law, give me the ability to decentrally mail tiddlers!), then 
maybe you're building some kind of visual commandline (I wonder what a 
console would look like in Tiddlywiki; a true commandline could be very 
powerful). I hope to read titles, xonsh parse and massage data, and use 
your tool to manually edit Tiddlywiki through xdotool and i3msgs. I can do 
this through NPM, but it requires decompiling and recompiling the 
Tiddlywiki (which I may just be forced to accept in the end); it has not 
been foolproof for me either. 

On a side note, I'm forced to use this: 
https://philosopher.life/#%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview:%24%3A%2F_toggle-editor-toolbar_preview,
 
a tool to disable toolbars, in order to maintain the font I want to have in 
the editor itself. Is this going to be a huge monkeywrench?


My claim might be dumb, and perhaps it should not have any influence on 
what you are constructing because this is just one person's oddball 
usecase. I'll leave that up to you.

How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it 
> search for... ?
>
I want to open search from keyboard, type stuff in, and use my keyboard to 
quickly navigate through the list. Currently, it has very poor 
highlighting, I must use Tab and Ctrl+Tab to move through the list (would 
love more options), and I have to Tab quite a bit to actually get to 
navigating the list in the first place. I suppose I may just fix this 
myself though (the highlighting I cannot).

Some of the work that others to do with tagging I choose to do with titles 
(so far, I'm not seeing why I should switch over to tags, but I may be 
blind here). Eventually, I aim to be able to search by title and then 
search for text within those titles (that may be already possible, but I've 
not figured out how yet). I may end up having to write out a bunch of 
specialized query templates.

Organizing my wiki is a very large matter of debate which I continue to 
think about. The softness of Tiddlywiki as software is exactly what I need 
as I figure out what it's supposed to look like. Search is ridiculously 
important, but I think I actually need to finds ways that are specifically 
tailored to the structures I have built. I will think more about your 
question. 


On Sunday, August 5, 2018 at 7:55:15 AM UTC-4, BurningTreeC wrote:

[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> BTC: How about a simple "S" or "SELECT MODE" in the top right bar (beneath 
> the sidebar button) with some highlighting background? I'll maybe make more 
> options and make them configurable, too


Simple "S" sounds good at that position. Pretty sure that will work well 
enough as an indicator.

Best wishes
Josiah 

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> BTC: What's KNmode? :)


Keyboard Navigation mode :-) 

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
>
> TT ... -- When you create or edit a Tiddler you lose "S mode" / "KN mode." 
>> Not sure, but is that preventable? It would be nice to stay in it.
>>
>
> There's some background: the "E" shortcut for editing works within the 
> text-editor, too. If you type a word that contains "e", it wouldn't insert 
> the letter but trigger the shortcut. That's why I disable SelectMode when I 
> edit a tiddler.
>

Of course! I should have realised that in edit-mode there would be a 
conflict. My bad for not thinking it through!
 

> ... I could however modify KeeBoord so that it only triggers shortcuts if 
> we're not within an editor or input field. But the amount of such fields is 
> very high within tw so I wonder how often users then have to click outside 
> those fields so that they loose focus, just to trigger a keyboard shortcut. 
> That's somehow contra-productive
>

I agree. Being able to get back to "S mode" after an edit is easy anyway. 
So likely better not to makre it over complicated? 

FYI, small observation. I opened three Tiddlers to edit. I then clicked 
alt+s. Typed into one of them the word "the". You get to "th" and it bails 
out and loses focus and "S mode" goes off. It seems resilient & behaves 
well. 

Worth noting, if you had a case of, say, one tiddler open for editing and a 
load of others in view mode you could STILL navigate around with keys  
UNTIL you started an actual edit in the opened editor. So "S mode" is NOT 
incompatible with having Tiddlers open for edit, merely it switches off 
once you actually start editing.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> That is extremely good piece of work. Really good.
>
> I tested on FF 52 & 60, latest Chrome on Windows 7. All behave the same.
>
> My initial comments ...
>
> -- Would not Up-Arrow and Down-Arrow better fit story navigation than 
> Left-Arrow and Right-Arrow? The story river is generally considered 
> VERTICAL, not horizontal.
>

That's everyones' own preference - you can change all shortcuts how you 
like. They're not hardcoded. Currently there are only some shortcut-info 
tiddlers missing so that the shortcuts don't show up in the controlpanel 
for modification. But you can alternativelly just edit the corresponding 
$:/config/shortcuts/shortcut-name tiddler. 

>
> -- Regarding signalling you are in "S mode" / "KN mode." For me the 
> HIGHLIGHT of the border of the selected Tiddler does it already. I don't 
> need the colour bars and they add cruft I do not think is needed. I think 
> if you make the highlight border a bit stronger, or with, say, a drop 
> shadow it would communicate visually well-enough. Also, perhaps, there 
> could be a simple capital "S" that appears on the right sidebar when you in 
> that mode. With a red slash through it when off? Maybe it could also be a 
> toggle to switch it on and off? Just a thought. 
>

What's KNmode? :)
How about a simple "S" or "SELECT MODE" in the top right bar (beneath the 
sidebar button) with some highlighting background? I'll maybe make more 
options and make them configurable, too

>
> -- The Help at bottom is good. Once you learned it you don't need to see 
> it again. Can it be switchable off?
>

It's already on/off switchable, see the SelectMode Intro tiddler at the 
bottom 

>
> -- When you create or edit a Tiddler you lose "S mode" / "KN mode." Not 
> sure, but is that preventable? It would be nice to stay in it.
>

There's some background: the "E" shortcut for editing works within the 
text-editor, too. If you type a word that contains "e", it wouldn't insert 
the letter but trigger the shortcut. That's why I disable SelectMode when I 
edit a tiddler.
The question if global shortcuts should work within the editor or not is a 
different one. I would expect global shortcuts to work anywhere. I could 
however modify KeeBoord so that it only triggers shortcuts if we're not 
within an editor or input field. But the amount of such fields is very high 
within tw so I wonder how often users then have to click outside those 
fields so that they loose focus, just to trigger a keyboard shortcut. 
That's somehow contra-productive

>
> Best wishes for a great tool
> Josiah
>
>
>
Thanks Josiah, very helpful feedback!

BTC 

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[@TiddlyTweeter]

That is extremely good piece of work. Really good.

I tested on FF 52 & 60, latest Chrome on Windows 7. All behave the same.

My initial comments ...

-- Would not Up-Arrow and Down-Arrow better fit story navigation than 
Left-Arrow and Right-Arrow? The story river is generally considered 
VERTICAL, not horizontal.

-- Regarding signalling you are in "S mode" / "KN mode." For me the 
HIGHLIGHT of the border of the selected Tiddler does it already. I don't 
need the colour bars and they add cruft I do not think is needed. I think 
if you make the highlight border a bit stronger, or with, say, a drop 
shadow it would communicate visually well-enough. Also, perhaps, there 
could be a simple capital "S" that appears on the right sidebar when you in 
that mode. With a red slash through it when off? Maybe it could also be a 
toggle to switch it on and off? Just a thought. 

-- The Help at bottom is good. Once you learned it you don't need to see it 
again. Can it be switchable off?

-- When you create or edit a Tiddler you lose "S mode" / "KN mode." Not 
sure, but is that preventable? It would be nice to stay in it.

Best wishes for a great tool
Josiah

On Saturday, 4 August 2018 16:04:10 UTC+2, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Hi community,
> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within 
> tiddlywiki I've created
> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon 
> be available for drag installation
>
> Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great 
> help.
> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. 
> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>
> I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the 
> tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
> you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
>
> all the best,
> BurningTreeC
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

>
> BurningTreeC,
>
> when you open the tiddler for editing with 'e' could the focus be on the 
> tiddler body?
>
> really like this approach - i puts an other layer of editing over the top 
> of the TW.
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
Hi Alex, yes there is an option now, see the SelectMode Intro Tiddler at 
the bottom. It can also be changed in SelectMode (currently "F" for Focus) 
- can also be used to jump from the editor to the title or vice-versa.
This functionality will stay, but I think it can be enhanced a bit to be 
able to jump to title, tags, editor, type or fields inputs

I also have to think about how to integrate keyboard-selection of entries 
in the tags, type and field dropdowns. Currently I have a local testing 
version that makes the dropdown entries selectable by the Tabulator key 
when activating it with a shortcut. There may be better options that 
integrate better with SelectMode
I'll add this functionality these days and I'd be glad about comments about 
how to integrate it well... but step-by-step, I'll leave a notice here when 
it's testable online

BTC

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Re: [tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[Alex Hough]

BurningTreeC,

when you open the tiddler for editing with 'e' could the focus be on the
tiddler body?

really like this approach - i puts an other layer of editing over the top
of the TW.



Alex

On 5 August 2018 at 12:55, BurningTreeC 
wrote:

> Am Sonntag, 5. August 2018 03:01:07 UTC+2 schrieb h0p3:
>>
>> Hi community,
>>> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within
>>> tiddlywiki I've created
>>> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com
>>> ,
>>> where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag
>>> installation
>>>
>>
>> Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my
>> favorite plug-in.
>>
>> Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great
>>> help.
>>> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode.
>>> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
>>> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>>>
>>
>> Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.
>>
>>- You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It
>>doesn't follow you, and that might be worth having. The "highlighting" of
>>current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I really appreciate that
>>very much, and I may not really even need the bar just because of that
>>gorgeous highlighting.
>>- I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That
>>function wasn't working nicely for me on that particular TW, and I'm not
>>sure why. This might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of
>>the top, which also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the
>>'Escape' key to cancel)" bar.
>>- Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
>>- You might consider adding a search bar that steps through entries
>>better than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> This is really awesome.
>>
>>
> Thanks, very helpful!
> I've addressed some points you've mentioned:
> The select-mode bar is on the bottom now and should have sticky position
> You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when
> editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in
> select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs
>
> How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it
> search for... ?
>
> BTC
>
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> 
> .
>
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>

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[BurningTreeC]

Am Sonntag, 5. August 2018 03:01:07 UTC+2 schrieb h0p3:
>
> Hi community,
>> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within 
>> tiddlywiki I've created
>> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com 
>> ,
>>  
>> where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag 
>> installation
>>
>
> Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my 
> favorite plug-in.
>
> Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great 
>> help.
>> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. 
>> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
>> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>>
>
> Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.
>
>- You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It 
>doesn't follow you, and that might be worth having. The "highlighting" of 
>current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I really appreciate that 
>very much, and I may not really even need the bar just because of that 
>gorgeous highlighting.
>- I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That 
>function wasn't working nicely for me on that particular TW, and I'm not 
>sure why. This might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of 
>the top, which also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the 
>'Escape' key to cancel)" bar.
>- Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
>- You might consider adding a search bar that steps through entries 
>better than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> This is really awesome.
>
>
Thanks, very helpful!
I've addressed some points you've mentioned:
The select-mode bar is on the bottom now and should have sticky position
You can now select if you want to focus the text-editor or the title when 
editing a tiddler. I'll probably add shortcuts that will be active in 
select-mode to focus title, tags, editor, type and fields inputs

How did you imagine the search bar? How should it behave, what should it 
search for... ?

BTC

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[tw5] Re: SelectMode - KeeBoord Navigation

[h0p3]

>
> Hi community,
> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within 
> tiddlywiki I've created
> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com 
> ,
>  
> where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon be available for drag 
> installation
>

Sending you all my interweb XOXOs. Thank you! This could easily be my 
favorite plug-in.

Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great 
> help.
> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. 
> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>

Feel free to ignore anything I have to say here. I'm just spitballin'.

   - You might consider making it sticky as you scroll/navigate. It doesn't 
   follow you, and that might be worth having.
   - I use sticky titles (probably can't live without them). That function 
   wasn't working nicely for on that particular TW, and I'm not sure why. This 
   might be a reason to put the bar on the bottom instead of the top, which 
   also has that sometimes annoying "Drop here (or use the 'Escape' key to 
   cancel)" bar.
   - Is it possible to start default in the text-body window for editing?
   - You might consider adding a search bar without so many tabs to step 
   through a list more effectively than http://j.d.spartan.tiddlyspot.com/
   - The "highlighting" of current/target/focused tiddler is outstanding. I 
   really appreciate that very much.


This is really awesome.





On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 10:04:10 AM UTC-4, BurningTreeC wrote:
 

> Hi community,
> for those interested in more advanced Keyboard-Navigation within 
> tiddlywiki I've created
> http://selectmode.tiddlyspot.com, where the "SelectMode" plugin will soon 
> be available for drag installation
>
> Meanwhile, if you're interested to test and comment, that would be great 
> help.
> I'm looking for ideas how to visualize that the wiki is in select-mode. 
> The top yellow bar will get an option to be disabled, but there should still
> be some kind of a visual hint that select-mode is on.
>
> I'm also adding the functionality to select the dropdown entries of the 
> tag-dropdown, type-dropdown and field-dropdown using the keyboard,
> you can expect the plugin to be available vs the end of the next week
>
> all the best,
> BurningTreeC
>

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