See my update I think the xtals no longer going to be an issue
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 10:17 AM, paul swed wrote:
> Trying to catch up on several hundred work emails. Not exciting.
> I absolutely agree that the 60002 would make a lot of sense.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Burt I. Wein
Trying to catch up on several hundred work emails. Not exciting.
I absolutely agree that the 60002 would make a lot of sense.
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Burt I. Weiner wrote:
> Paul,
>
> This is probably why they sell crystals cut for 60,002 kHz and 60,005 kHz.
> I ordered 10 of the 60,0
Paul,
This is probably why they sell crystals cut for 60,002 kHz and 60,005
kHz. I ordered 10 of the 60,000 kHz crystals from DigiKey for about
a buck each. The 60,002 and 60,005 crystals were only available in
lots of a bazillion. It sounds like when I build the oscillator
portion of the
Hello to the group
Very good thread. I am recovering from a severe flu. Thats wgy I have not
been around.
This will be brief.
1Hz off seems to cause an issue.
The 60 khz xtals from mouser all seem to always be low.
So by lowering the drive and I assume loading. The 20K resistor they come
into range
Magnus I certainly can and did in my earlier release some 6 months ago. But
thats very specific to one rcvr type. This is a general approach that keeps
you out of the insides.
Recovering from a severe flu
End for tonight.
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Magnus Danielson <
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.
On 06/18/2013 03:04 AM, paul swed wrote:
Exactly as Bob says. Though at the time I built the costas loop I did not
build the remodulator. Just time. Pun intended.
But indeed they add together for those that need both time and frequency.
If you just want time the remodulator is far far simpler.
I sent this on the 18th, but it didn't show up, so here goes another
try. I don't know if something's wrong with my email. Please excuse
if the redundant original shows up too.
Original message:
At low frequency, the HC parts should take very little dynamic
current - the big current draw is f
g back into the fun stuff, but
> it shouldn't be too long.
At 60 KHz, one ppm is 0.06 Hz. You are ~ 18 ppm off at 1 Hz. That's probably
further than the VCXO in the Spectracom can track. The front end filter is
likely > 10 Hz wide.
Bob
>
> Burt, K6OQK
>
&
b...@att.net said:
> The other day when I ordered my crystals I had a choice of 60 kHz, 60.002
> kHz, 60.005 kHz and 60.000 kHz. The 60.002 and 60.005 were only available
> in Hugh quantity purchases. The 60.000 kHz was a little more expensive but
> I bought 10 of the little buggers anyway.
Right now I've got some revenue generating work on the
bench that I need to get out of the way before getting back into the
fun stuff, but it shouldn't be too long.
Burt, K6OQK
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
Interesting the HC will work all the wa
ect: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:51:29 -0400
paul swed wrote:
> Thanks Attila Burts looking to separate the rcvr/remodulator. I am fine.
> Yes indeed I did look up the hc specs. I thought it was a 5v logic
> actually. I knew it wa
Hi
The clock receivers (like a watch IC) likely are made on a low leakage / low
speed process. You don't get a lot of speed, but you get enough at low voltage
to do the job. Current drain is generally in the microamp range.
Bob
On Jun 18, 2013, at 6:16 PM, paul swed wrote:
> Don't know but t
Don't know but thats what the wwvb clock rcvrs run on 2 aa batteries.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 6:10 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:51:29 -0400
> paul swed wrote:
>
> > Thanks Attila Burts looking to separate the rcvr/remodulator. I am fine.
> > Yes indeed I did look up the h
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:51:29 -0400
paul swed wrote:
> Thanks Attila Burts looking to separate the rcvr/remodulator. I am fine.
> Yes indeed I did look up the hc specs. I thought it was a 5v logic
> actually. I knew it was not at all like the 74c series.
That's the HCT which are 5V (the T denote
Thanks Attila Burts looking to separate the rcvr/remodulator. I am fine.
Yes indeed I did look up the hc specs. I thought it was a 5v logic
actually. I knew it was not at all like the 74c series.
Regards
Paul
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 10:52:24
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 10:52:24 -0400
paul swed wrote:
> Interesting the HC will work all the way down to 2.2V so everything can be
> run from 3 Volts.
I don't have a spec sheet at hand, but are HC types speced down to 2.2V?
I thought it was something around 3V
> No idea as to the effect of the xt
Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
Interesting the HC will work all the way down to 2.2V so everything can be
run from 3 Volts.
No idea as to the effect of the xtal oscillator maybe the 3.9 M R needs to
be cha
Interesting the HC will work all the way down to 2.2V so everything can be
run from 3 Volts.
No idea as to the effect of the xtal oscillator maybe the 3.9 M R needs to
be changed.
It also appears that the HC chip may doing the lions share of current
consumption. Spec sheet says up to 20 Ma. Hard to
Hi
I don't know of any phase tracking receiver that would be bothered by the
modulator in Paul's schematic. You could implement it a couple of ways, but the
net result would be the same. The AM is a bit more square wave than the WWVB
signal. Modulation depth and timing would / could be dead on
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 09:35:51PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
> We as they say. I am most likely going to use a simple phase flipper.
> That preserves all of the Nist stuff and traceability and such. A flipper
> is simply a invert or non inverted signal and a switch. It is subject to
> propagation
We as they say. I am most likely going to use a simple phase flipper.
That preserves all of the Nist stuff and traceability and such. A flipper
is simply a invert or non inverted signal and a switch. It is subject to
propagation. But no more so than the original receivers.
The remodulator gets
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 06:11:15PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> The Costas loop already has the AM component available. There's no
> need for a second receiver, just wire the AM output over to the output
> modulator.
That is standard for most Costas loops with an I arm... haven't
look
Exactly as Bob says. Though at the time I built the costas loop I did not
build the remodulator. Just time. Pun intended.
But indeed they add together for those that need both time and frequency.
If you just want time the remodulator is far far simpler.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at
biwa at att.net
> Mon Jun 17 13:56:17 EDT 2013
> Previous message: [time-nuts] raspberry pi, adafruit gps & ntp
> Next message: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ]
>[ subject ]
Good conversation and the purpose of the remodulator is simply time.
The tuning fork sets the accuracy. Granted as mentioned in the earlier
email you can use a better reference but its not really a reference.
Thats why the d-psk-r exists it indeed corrects the phase error but is more
complex as it
Hi
I suspect it will be a while before we see a phase locking / phase comparing
receiver chip that works with the new modulation. I'd bet on them simply
putting out the demodulated data. Since that chip just tells me what time it
is, I don't see a lot of benefit in having one.
Even if I can't
Hi
The Costas loop already has the AM component available. There's no need for a
second receiver, just wire the AM output over to the output modulator.
Bob
On Jun 17, 2013, at 5:57 PM, "David I. Emery" wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 02:41:13PM -0700, Burt I. Weiner wrote:
>> Chris,
>>
>> T
Yes the simple "re-modulator" fixes the time of day display but leaves the
frequency output about as good as the tuning fork crystal.
I think the ONLY way to make it work 100% like new is to build a new
receier that actually decodes the phase inversions and "knows" when the
carier phase is flipped
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 02:41:13PM -0700, Burt I. Weiner wrote:
> Chris,
>
> The 8170 was originally intended to be a frequency reference source
> tied to the USFS (United Stated Frequency Standard). It also gave
> the time of day, but I believe that wasn't it's primary purpose. As
> I recall
even available on a pin...
Jerry S.
Burt I. Weiner biwa at att.net
Mon Jun 17 13:56:17 EDT 2013
Previous message: [time-nuts] raspberry pi, adafruit gps & ntp
Next message: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...
Messages sorted by:
Chris,
The 8170 was originally intended to be a frequency reference source
tied to the USFS (United Stated Frequency Standard). It also gave
the time of day, but I believe that wasn't it's primary purpose. As
I recall, there were some versions that did not have the clock
readout and some th
On 6/17/2013 9:52 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
Here is an even smaller version, at the same resolution.The trick is to
remove the background. Then all you have is mostly a plank sheet and a
small amount of ink that compresses very well.
What you do is adjust the contrast until you have only p
Burt wrote:
In a sense you could say that Paul's circuit does get the WWVB
signal to the receiver - it's just a new phase stable version of the
signal signal. This way I don't have to mess with the insides of the 8170.
Note that the 1 MHz TTL signal on the rear panel of the 8170 will not
be
An honest answer to
> that
> > is, that's no fun.
> >
> > In a sense you could say that Paul's circuit does get the WWVB signal to
> > the receiver - it's just a new phase stable version of the signal signal.
> > This way I don't have to mess wi
Thanks for the pix and to the comments.
Chris you can indeed hack the 8170 insides. On the 8170 its intended to be
a time receiver. So Spectracom simply re-used what they had already
developed for the other phase tracking receivers. Good business. But it
does not at all work as suggested. You have
a sense you could say that Paul's circuit does get the WWVB signal to
> the receiver - it's just a new phase stable version of the signal signal.
> This way I don't have to mess with the insides of the 8170.
>
> Burt, K6OQK
>
> From: Chris Albertson
>>
>
he insides of the 8170.
Burt, K6OQK
From: Chris Albertson
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the spectracom 8170 the
I'm looking at the schematic. I thought the goal was to get the 60KHz
signal from WWVB to the HP unit. This schematic sends an approximatly
60KHz si
I'm looking at the schematic. I thought the goal was to get the 60KHz
signal from WWVB to the HP unit. This schematic sends an approximatly
60KHz signal from the tuning fork to the HP. but copies the AM modulation
from WWVB. So the 8170 does not look at the 60KHz carrier? and only cars
about th
By golly it is readable thanks. What did you use to shrink it?
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Rex wrote:
> On 6/16/2013 2:43 PM, paul swed wrote:
>
>> OK no schematic. It was 2MB. But it was a scan of my notes. Happy to post
>> to a sight or two. Can include some pictures also.
>>
>>
> I shr
Also now on my web site,
http://www.vk7krj.com/ham_stuff.htm
at the bottom of the page, along with some other time-nut type files.
And, once again, if anyone has any other time-nut files they would like to
see hosted on a web page, I am happy to oblige. Just email me.
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10
Did take both lo-res and hi-res at 2 MB each. The low res are not that
useful 3-4 of the hi-res will tell you a lot. However please resist the
critiques on the dead bugs. :-)
Regards
Paul.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 9:08 PM, paul swed wrote:
> Majdi
> Thanks I will take some pix tomorrow work perm
Majdi
Thanks I will take some pix tomorrow work permitting and forward. Its dead
bug style so not pretty. But it sure does work.
Regards and thanks again
Paul
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> You could get rid of the inverter and nand gate by using an XOR (74HC86)
> gat
Hi
You could get rid of the inverter and nand gate by using an XOR (74HC86) gate.
You'd save at least 5 cents ….
Bob
On Jun 16, 2013, at 8:24 PM, "Majdi S. Abbas" wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 05:43:18PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
>> OK no schematic. It was 2MB. But it was a scan of my notes.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 05:43:18PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
> OK no schematic. It was 2MB. But it was a scan of my notes. Happy to post
> to a sight or two. Can include some pictures also.
There's a copy here for those that are interested:
https://latt.net/wwvb%20remodulator%20spec
Yes it is I would have sent the pdf but thats larger than 125 KB limit for
time nuts.
Regards
Paul.
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> Next in on the same line … MSA or MAS?
>
> I assume it's:
>
> http://www.mas-oy.com/products/radio-controlled-clock-rcc/mas6180/
>
> Whic
Hi
Next in on the same line … MSA or MAS?
I assume it's:
http://www.mas-oy.com/products/radio-controlled-clock-rcc/mas6180/
Which would make it a MAS 6180 or it's dual band relative the MAS6181
Bob
On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, paul swed wrote:
> Good catch Bob 6180.
> Thanks
> Paul
>
>
Hi
It's been at least 10 minutes since I've made a similar mistake on the list ….
Bob
On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:39 PM, paul swed wrote:
> Good catch Bob 6180.
> Thanks
> Paul
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> MSA 6180 or MSA 8160 or ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On J
Good catch Bob 6180.
Thanks
Paul
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> MSA 6180 or MSA 8160 or ….
>
> Bob
>
> On Jun 16, 2013, at 5:43 PM, paul swed wrote:
>
> > OK no schematic. It was 2MB. But it was a scan of my notes. Happy to post
> > to a sight or two. Can include som
Hi
MSA 6180 or MSA 8160 or ….
Bob
On Jun 16, 2013, at 5:43 PM, paul swed wrote:
> OK no schematic. It was 2MB. But it was a scan of my notes. Happy to post
> to a sight or two. Can include some pictures also.
> Operation is simple the msa 6180 receives wwvb and in my case I tap off of
6180
>
OK no schematic. It was 2MB. But it was a scan of my notes. Happy to post
to a sight or two. Can include some pictures also.
Operation is simple the msa 6180 receives wwvb and in my case I tap off of
a wwvb antenna multi-coupler.
Output of the 8160 controls inverters that select a 60 Khz clock sign
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