On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 06:11:22PM -0700, Jim Lux wrote:
I'm not so sure about that, in general. (the access to the public,
not the tax funding).. A lot of universities have put badge readers
on a lot of areas that one might think are totally public access.
Now, they might be wide open
On Wed, 09 May 2012 14:25:34 -0700
Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
Back to technical stuff...
As a practical matter, is clock jitter or phase noise from a typical low cost
crystal and decent board layout a significant problem in audio gear? How
hard is it to measure?
Depends
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
nanoseconds rms.
http://amorgignitamorem.nl/Audio/Jitter/Detection%20threshold%20for%20distortions%20due%20to%20jitter%20on%20digital%20audio%2026_50.pdf
Others claim the ability to detect jitter in the picoseconds range...
In message 4fab74eb.1050...@medesign.ro, MailLists writes:
Others claim the ability to detect jitter in the picoseconds range...
It would be a conservative assumption that jitter in the range of
tens-hundreds of picoseconds will be practically not discernible.
We're probably talking about one
Hal Murray wrote:
As a practical matter, is clock jitter or phase noise from a typical
low cost crystal and decent board layout a significant problem in audio
gear? How hard is it to measure?
The answer depends a lot on the circumstances (as usual).
If you refer to jitter effects on a
As a GPS receiver (12 channel), it seems to be quite good. It is at least
6dB more sensitive than the Thunderbolt.
You can also program the PPS output for PP2S (pulse per 2 seconds)
___
time-nuts mailing
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position output? I have a thunderbolt and
one of those conical white aerials from china and would like to know if
How accurate do you need your height?
Remember that height is the least accurate of GPS parameters due to the fact
that you rarely have a GPS satellite directly overhead.
Rob Kimberley
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of
On 05/10/2012 02:50 PM, swingbyte wrote:
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position output? I have a thunderbolt and one
of those conical white aerials
Not being able to receive signals from GPS satellites anywhere below
the horizon is an even larger problem for vertical accuracy.
On Thu, 10 May 2012 13:59:51 +0100, Rob Kimberley
robkimber...@btinternet.com wrote:
How accurate do you need your height?
Remember that height is the least
On Thu, 10 May 2012 22:50:15 +1000
swingbyte swingb...@exemail.com.au wrote:
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position output? I have a thunderbolt and
On 5/10/12 6:08 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 05/10/2012 02:50 PM, swingbyte wrote:
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position output? I have a
A man with only one GPS
Surveys from different receivers I have. All taken at the same
height from prolonged surveys. WGS84 datum.
Oncore UT+ A 207,62m
Oncore UT+ B 209,24m
Z3801A 180,72m
Oncore VP A 229,95m
TBolt 207.00m
Le 10/05/2012
On 5/10/12 6:42 AM, mike cook wrote:
A man with only one GPS
Surveys from different receivers I have. All taken at the same height
from prolonged surveys. WGS84 datum.
Oncore UT+ A 207,62m
Oncore UT+ B 209,24m
Z3801A 180,72m
Oncore VP A 229,95m
TBolt 207.00m
That's a pretty big
Le 10/05/2012 15:51, Jim Lux a écrit :
On 5/10/12 6:42 AM, mike cook wrote:
A man with only one GPS
Surveys from different receivers I have. All taken at the same height
from prolonged surveys. WGS84 datum.
Oncore UT+ A 207,62m
Oncore UT+ B 209,24m
Z3801A 180,72m
Oncore VP A 229,95m
I've found significant altitude errors using a GPS and the following quotes
found on the internet will explain why. From my experience of hiking
in the mountains of New Hampshire an aneroid altimeter will vary with
atmospheric pressure about 200 feet for a change of 0.2 of mercury
so you have
Hi Tim,
The answer is NO. Even though decent accuracy can be had with long
averaging. It was discussed a few years ago on this list.
--
Björn
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing
Not for survey type accuracy (sub-meter, short measurement time).
The average (over a 48 hour period) was pretty good (about 1.5 meters,
RMS), but the reading over any 1 minute period can be off as much as 3-5
meters, satellite geometry dependent.
I Have two units with good antennas, mounted
Attilla,
On Thu, 10 May 2012 22:50:15 +1000
swingbyte swingb...@exemail.com.au wrote:
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position output? I have a
Thanks, all ...this thread has helped me a lot.
It reinforces my beliefs of what a 'second' is ...what we were taught from
day 1 in school:
One solar day/86,400 (A 'solar' day being an earth solar day)
Hi Don,
This was true until the 1960's. Hopefully the school curriculum has been
Hi
Just how accurate do you need?
The local survey company will get you to ~ 1 cm in roughly an hour with
real survey gear.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of swingbyte
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:50 AM
To:
There is an error in your quoted text. The author must have though
there was a difference between WGS84 and true sea level. No that
is not true. If you paper map that you bought from US Gological
Survey says WGS84 on it then THAT is the definition of sea level on
that map. The altitudes of
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
.
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position output? I have a thunderbolt and
one of
On Thu, 10 May 2012 17:01:48 +0200
b...@lysator.liu.se wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2012 22:50:15 +1000
swingbyte swingb...@exemail.com.au wrote:
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM, MailLists li...@medesign.ro wrote:
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
nanoseconds rms.
http://amorgignitamorem.nl/Audio/Jitter/Detection%20threshold%20for%20distortions%20due%20to%20jitter%20on%20digital%20audio%2026_50.pdf
In fact, I do believe the paper is a voice of rationality in an ocean oh
hype. Very expensive hype, promoted by shameless hucksters.
-John
===
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM, MailLists li...@medesign.ro wrote:
Hearing tests showed the ability to discern jitter above a few hundred
Chris Albertson albertson.chris at gmail.com
There is an error in your quoted text. The author must have though
there was a difference between WGS84 and true sea level. No that
is not true. If you paper map that you bought from US Gological
Survey says WGS84 on it then THAT is the
Chris Albertson wrote:
If we are to believe the above paper,then those guys who claim to hear
pS jitter are wrong.
Note that the jitter spectrum matters for its audibility. Ashihara et.al. used
random jitter, and it is not very suprising that the sensitivity for random
jitter is lower than
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path
length from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
You'd think the resulting doppler shift would drive these audiophiles
nuts. All that
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com wrote:
Chris Albertson albertson.chris at gmail.com
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but it is a fact, as the OP
pointed
out, that there are differences between the empirical data of 'true
elevation' and
Great dialog. The Time Nuts form can be very humbling and often has me
questioning my own knowledge base. This thread is no exception. My take on the
effect of jitter is when an d toA converter is reproducing a pure sine wave
even a single point of slight jitter will show up in the FFT as
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path length
from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
You'd think the resulting doppler shift would drive
On 5/10/12 7:40 AM, Arthur Dent wrote:
I've found significant altitude errors using a GPS and the following quotes
found on the internet will explain why. From my experience of hiking
in the mountains of New Hampshire an aneroid altimeter will vary with
atmospheric pressure about 200 feet for a
Hi Holrum,
how do you re-configure the SMT unit? Using Trimble GPS studio?
Thanks,
Said
In a message dated 5/9/2012 15:17:21 Pacific Daylight Time,
hol...@hotmail.com writes:
I have it running now. It turns out that the units from fluke.l come
shipped with TEP format messages
On 5/10/12 9:18 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote:
.
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities
extend to its precision in position
Ok,
I figured out that the unit fluke.l sells is running firmware to emulate
the Motrola M12+ receiver or similar. So WinOncore 12 does work, and I can
get the following receiver ID:
COPYRIGHT 2008 Trimble Navigation Ltd.
SFTW P/N #
SOFTWARE VER # 0.03.0
SOFTWARE REV # 00
SOFTWARE
One interesting note however. Years ago we had a standard old 4040
ripple counter in our shop that displayed a low occurrence of jitter
of several times it's input frequency period at it's lowest frequency
output (Sort of what you are describing below). I wish I had the
numbers handy, but the
On 5/10/12 10:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
mean sea level is not meaningful any more. What shape is the ocean
and what if you live in Kanas? How to extrapolate the ocean level to
Kanas? The answer is to use a model of some kind
mean sea level, these days, is a name for a particular
On 5/10/12 11:36 AM, Hal Murray wrote:
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is bad then
breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path length
from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level.
You'd think
On 5/10/12 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Heinzmann, Stefan (ALC NetworX
GmbH)stefan.heinzm...@alcnetworx.de wrote:
Benjamin and Gannon, the first reference in Ashihara's paper, come to lower
figures for sinusoidal jitter with carefully selected
Don't forget the human mind can compensate for a lot of things. Think
of how we can triangulate a sound source in realtime even with the
included echos in a small room. The only thing that I can think of
that messes with that system is a single tone setting up standing
waves. It's impressive
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
On 5/10/12 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
powerline ripple on a signal going into a threshold detector that drive the
sample clock would be a nice way to generate sinusoidal jitter.
I can think of other ways to design a
Are there any real audio systems with sinusoidal jitter. I'd goes that
it would all be random. I can see where I could build a system with
that defect if I wanted to but are there any systems on the market like
this?
I could easily imagine jitter with a significant sinusoidal
d...@irtelemetrics.com said:
One interesting note however. Years ago we had a standard old 4040 ripple
counter in our shop that displayed a low occurrence of jitter of several
times it's input frequency period at it's lowest frequency output (Sort of
what you are describing below). I wish
The receivers from fluke.l are the TEP version that emulates Motorola protocols
by default. I used Trimble GPS Monitor V1.05 to set it for TSIP.
Select the Initialize Menu, Detect Receiver, click TEP protocol button. It
then found the receiver and offered to enable it for TSIP. Then
What's bad with the Motorola binary protocol? In my opinion it is superior
to the NMEA one...
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:55 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote:
Ok,
I figured out that the unit fluke.l sells is running firmware to emulate
the Motrola M12+ receiver or similar. So WinOncore 12 does
Le 10/05/2012 21:50, Jim Lux a écrit :
On 5/10/12 9:18 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote:
.
Hi all,
Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey
precise
geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing
On Thu, 10 May 2012 19:25:33 +0200
Heinzmann, Stefan (ALC NetworX GmbH) stefan.heinzm...@alcnetworx.de wrote:
Benjamin and Gannon, the first reference in Ashihara's paper, come to lower
figures for sinusoidal jitter with carefully selected frequencies relative
to the main signal, which is
On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:36:40 -0700
Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
Heartbeats may be more interesting than breathing. Does anybody know of
spectrum domain data? It should be possible to collect position info while
also monitoring heartbeat and chest diameter and then crunch some
This audio thread had some interesting information; thank you.
Now I welcome you to get back to the focus of the group; please.
Thanks,
/tvb
p.s. If we need to start another mailing list that includes audio let me know;
contact me off-line.
___
The first problem is, I didn't even know that was the command set the unit
had, the @@Cf looked familiar though. I wasted an hour trying to get the
Trimble application to work, until I tried WinOncore12 and the unit
responded.
Can't use TeraTerm to send commands, and the user manual
There is the problem: I used the Trimble GPS Studio application that was
posted here yesterday, that does not support the TEP protocol.. Will try with
GPS Monitor..
Is the TrimbleMon available somewhere safe on the web? Can't seem to find
it with Google.
I got it working with Oncore12,
Why in the hell would anybody build a 50 channel receiver? At most you MIGHT
see 12 usable GPS sats... I don't think that I've seen over 10. WAAS should
be fairly useless for a timing receiver.
Supposedly the Nortel NTGS50AA docs and support info (including GPSMONITOR were
uploaded to the
Why in the hell would anybody build a 50 channel receiver? At most you MIGHT
see 12 usable GPS sats... I don't think that I've seen over 10. WAAS should
be fairly useless for a timing receiver.
Or 216 channels (GPS L1/L2/L2C/L5; GLONASS L1/L2; Galileo E1/E5A):
Think Galileo, Waas, Glonass, and gps could give you more than 38 sats, over
determination will give better results and much faster cold starts without
almanac and assist. Waas helps a lot when you run on a Uav chasing bad guys,
think timing under motion without position hold mode, so there are
Are there better estimates of the ET second nowadays (relative to the
SI second)? It would be interesting to know what the cesium frequency
should have been if much better estimates of the ephemeris-time
second were available at the time. One would think that with all the
solar-system data JPL
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