Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

: Sunday, October 10, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Kind of sad, IMO, the way the US has squandered our space competance. FWIW, -John = The city of Sunnyvale was thinking of replacing it (the Blue Cube, etc) with car dealerships, but decided against

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2010 9:27:20 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver About the only doors in the place that did not have electronic combo locks were the bathrooms. Sad to see it's being shut down. IMO, it was one of the kewl places

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

- Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: bro...@pacific.net, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2010 9:27:20 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver About the only doors in the place that did not have electronic

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

substandard toilet seat... Don - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: d.sei...@comcast.net Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Kind of sad, IMO

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Well I remember them at least I think we are speaking of the same domes. The ones I am thinking of are just south of moffet field though those were actually dishes. Anyhow being a bit interested and in the navy at the time. Drove on to moffet field no problem with a navy truck and drove through an

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi Dave: Yes, it was right on the central expressway and was part of the GTE military electronics complex. Hi John: My recollection of the antennas at the Blue Cube is that they are out in the open. See photo at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cube Have Fun, Brooke Clarke

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

The reason for the dishes could well have been for comunications with the Blue Cube as that place was/is? the headquarters for the Air Force Satellite Control Facility. Maybe you remember The Brass Rail... the nudie bar across the street from the Lockheed main gate? -John Well

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

About the only doors in the place that did not have electronic combo locks were the bathrooms. Sad to see it's being shut down. IMO, it was one of the kewl places to be in the heddy early days of space. OTOH, it probably makes some sense to muve the thing into the bowels of a mountain somewhere.

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi John: Was at the Brass Rail decade ago. Later read the Russians were also there during the cold war. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com J. Forster wrote: The reason for the dishes could well have been for comunications with the Blue Cube as that place was/is? the

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

I have no doubt it's be a good snooping ground for the Ruskies. Lotsa guys from spooky places, booze, and naked women. Lunchtime featured a gal with a big snake... and little else. LoL. -John Hi John: Was at the Brass Rail decade ago. Later read the Russians were also

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/9/2010 7:40 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Dave: Yes, it was right on the central expressway and was part of the GTE military electronics complex. That building existed from 1963 until 1990 at the GTE Sylvania complex that was at 500 Evelyn... right at Central Expressway and 237. Can't

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/9/2010 11:43 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: On 10/9/2010 7:40 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi Dave: Yes, it was right on the central expressway and was part of the GTE military electronics complex. That building existed from 1963 until 1990 at the GTE Sylvania complex that was at 500

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca) until the late 80's, but I can't remember who owned it, maybe GE?; it's all housing now. Dave - Original Message - From: Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 8, 2010 5:06:34 AM Subject:

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca) until the late 80's, but I can't remember who owned it, maybe GE?; it's all housing now. Dave - Original Message - From: Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 8, 2010

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Where? Off 401 near the Blue Cube? -John = We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca) until the late 80's, but I can't remember who owned it, maybe GE?; it's all housing now. Dave - Original Message - From: Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com To: time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

You mean near the intersection of 401 and 537? Close to 385 also. (I took the liberty of keeping up the code and adding 300 to everything.) -Rex On 10/8/2010 6:26 PM, J. Forster wrote: Where? Off 401 near the Blue Cube? -John = We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca)Â until

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi The one thing that an alternator system had available was *power*. They are fairly efficient and you put lots of horsepower into them. Numbers in the 100's of KW come to mind What we're talking about here is more or less a page from the history of radio in the early 1900's. People that

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Bob Camp wrote: Hi The one thing that an alternator system had available was *power*. They are fairly efficient and you put lots of horsepower into them. Numbers in the 100's of KW come to mind What we're talking about here is more or less a page from the history of radio in the early

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Telstar was a BIG DEAL! There was even a pop song about it. -John I was surprised to see how late it was before the first *wired* transatlantic phone call was made: 1956 ($12/3 minutes, 36 lines available). the first Telstar call wasn't that much later in 1962.

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/07/10 17:09, J. Forster wrote: Telstar was a BIG DEAL! There was even a pop song about it. Reading the Bell labs books on the Telstar project is very nice. Nice fold-outs on control-panels etc. They did spent a lot of time to engineer the whole thing. Their antenna setups that would

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

And an Astounding Science Fiction novella --the trouble with telstar-- Don - Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver On 10/07/10 17:09, J. Forster

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Could you tell me which book you have on mind ? I'd love to read the story. I visited Telstar ground station in Pleumeur-Bodou, France once. There is museum there now, called Cite des Telecoms. They preserved original horn-like antenna used for Telstar communication and lots of original

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

There was / is? a ground station near Andover Massachusetts also. The antenna was called a Hogg Horn. -John === Could you tell me which book you have on mind ? I'd love to read the story. I visited Telstar ground station in Pleumeur-Bodou, France once. There is museum there

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

. This is what television was invented for. Now we have The Greatest Loser ... What a waste. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: J. Forster j...@quik.com Sent: Oct 7, 2010 3:02 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

are not needed for telecoms now. Arthur is now a historic monument so we do get some things right !! Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Long long gone completely though I think a plack is there. It was on chronicle several years ago. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 6:02 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: There was / is? a ground station near Andover Massachusetts also. The antenna was called a Hogg Horn. -John ===

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

j...@quik.com said: There was / is? a ground station near Andover Massachusetts also. The antenna was called a Hogg Horn. Andover Massachusetts or Andover Maine? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andover_Earth_Station Hogg seems to be the guy (or main guy) who put a parabolic reflector on a

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: 08 October 2010 06:17 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Piotr Kolodziejczyk Sent: 08 October 2010 07:32 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 08 October 2010 08:02 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver There was / is? a ground station near Andover Massachusetts also. The antenna was called a Hogg

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

...@veenstras.com Sent: Oct 7, 2010 4:34 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And at Andover, Comsat took it all down and cut it up to save taxes rather than save history. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 08 October 2010 08:02 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver There was / is? a ground station near Andover Massachusetts also. The antenna was called a Hogg Horn. -John

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/08/2010 02:08 AM, paul swed wrote: Far as I know the telstar station was in andiver maine. Believe my bell labs journals confirm that. Additionally those journals describe all kinds of details of the telstar program. Being Bell Labs they included some long-term radiation tests of

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Could you tell me which book you have on mind ? I'd love to read the story. I visited Telstar ground station in Pleumeur-Bodou, France once. There is museum there now, called Cite des Telecoms. They preserved original horn-like antenna

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Oops. I didn't know there was an Andover ME. Thanks, -John === j...@quik.com said: There was / is? a ground station near Andover Massachusetts also. The antenna was called a Hogg Horn. Andover Massachusetts or Andover Maine?

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Indeed its a common mistake that everyone thinks its ma. Andover me was chosen because its was miles from any place and was in a hole essentially. They strung microwave towers to the place. On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:06 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: Oops. I didn't know there was an Andover

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

, 2010 4:34 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And at Andover, Comsat took it all down and cut it up to save taxes rather than save history. Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message 60aa6fcf-cf71-4e4c-a7cb-aab9f11a2...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: The other answer is that DSP was not really available when the original waveforms were developed. A modern system would not have a must be able to work with manual delay lines and an oscilloscope requirement on it. Well,

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/05/2010 11:52 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, the next layer to this onion is the antenna. At 100KC your antenna is 35X smaller than it is on 80 meters foot for foot. In other words, your 100' tall vertical on 80 equates to a3 foot tall antenna at 100 KC. QRP on 80 with a 3' transmit

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

The coil allowed an ok match, but an antenna that is a tiny fraction of a wavelength is going to be inefficient from ohmic loss in the antenna. You could use a superconductor, but that brings another set of problems (matching networks that also have low loss and can adapt to the changing

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Actually building a loran recvr is not that hard if its only purpose is timing/frequency. I lived in Michigan at the time and used the great lakes chain. You only had to pick the strongest single station. So essentially a simple front end and filters a bit like wwvb but much broader band. No

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi The bandwidth of anything close to a Loran signal is a *lot* wider than any of the ham bands contemplated below 1 MHz. There's the minor issue of getting the power company to put in a cable to the house for your 1 Mw (capital M not lower case M) transmitter. Even though it's pule, the RF

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message b69fdcaf-2b39-4575-b5cd-66a87fa1b...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: Even though it's pule, the RF power is way beyond the sub 1 W outputs currently contemplated on those bands. Signal to noise *does* matter. You know, there are other ways to skin that cat these days. Old-time signals had

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi If you were starting from scratch there are a lot of things you could do. If the intent is to put out something a Loran receiver will recognize ... not so much. Bob On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:44 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message b69fdcaf-2b39-4575-b5cd-66a87fa1b...@rtty.us, Bob Camp

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

A great thread by everyone. Oh to make the loran receivers work. But that is indeed the past. Can not hear Europe on east coast. But the question really is, what do you want to accomplish? I don't think its a time stamp. Its just to easy to get it from GPS or the network. But that could be a

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

One other comment Would be great to be on 100KC But I might guess some one in gov will wake up to suggest that it could interfere with europe and not allow it. Or the treaties exist to forbid reuse. On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:57 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: A great thread by everyone.

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Were it me, I would change the model from a few high power transmitters netted together to a ton of WiFi routers running special software and netted together. -Chuck Harris paul swed wrote: A great thread by everyone. Oh to make the loran receivers work. But that is indeed the past. Can not

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi The bandwidth of anything close to a Loran signal is a *lot* wider than any of the ham bands contemplated below 1 MHz. There's the minor issue of getting the power company to put in a cable to the house for your 1 Mw (capital M not lower case M) transmitter. I was not contemplating a

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Millisecond pulsars have been proposed as being suitable as comparable to atomic clocks. I don't know how much power they put out, but there are stories about people with backyard size dishes receiving pulsars. Not sure if they're the right kind of pulsar, though. But hey, when fabricating

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Paul, I'd bet there are 50+ LORAN timing receivers in the Boston area that could receive and lock to an erzatz 5W signal from a simulator and small amp. -John = A great thread by everyone. Oh to make the loran receivers work. But that is indeed the past. Can not hear Europe on

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

might not think it's the bees knees 73 Brice KA8MAV - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message aanlkti=-rejgqkaobgshqz=jfhcb5bd6zezy596ua...@mail.gmail.com, paul swed writes: Great a single carrier with a id every 10 min. Maybe that could be waved to 1 per hour or 24 hours. There is no reason the ID could not be worked into your spreading function so the time to send it would

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message aanlktinnoch7bsqsovhpn3qdohapg2pi2w5ynryjf...@mail.gmail.com, paul swed writes: One other comment Would be great to be on 100KC But I might guess some one in gov will wake up to suggest that it could interfere with europe and not allow it. Or the treaties exist to forbid reuse. Here

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On Oct 4, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Heathkid heath...@heathkid.com wrote: One more note before I just read the posts for a while... a) broadcasts aren't legal for US hams Do some reading on telemetry and when broadcasts ARE allowed. I've been a Ham for more than 30+ years. Telemetry is

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

c) Whats wrong with GPS and/or WWV and/or CHU or whatever? Nothing as long as they are TRANSMITTING. Have you ever tried to adjust a local standard to better than 1 in 10E7 using WWV or CHU? I have three Rb standards to go along with my two Thunderbolts. And which one do you believe? If

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Speaking of LORAN receivers, I have two Stanford Research Systems FS700 receivers here at work (in central VA) that I have been asked to dispose of. They both have ovenized oscillators, and I have one original manual. The antenna is on the roof, but I think it'll stay there ;-). Any offers for one

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message aanlktikt7xxjganyxgada1kqn4mkmq0xcw=b_2vln...@mail.gmail.com, Geor ge Dubovsky writes: Speaking of LORAN receivers, I have two Stanford Research Systems FS700 receivers here at work (in central VA) that I have been asked to dispose of. I would love to lay my hands on one of them, so

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

John I would be interested but with loran down fo ever. Inexpensive. On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:24 PM, George Dubovsky n4ua...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of LORAN receivers, I have two Stanford Research Systems FS700 receivers here at work (in central VA) that I have been asked to dispose of.

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Oct 2010 06:34:29 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Hi The bandwidth of anything close to a Loran signal is a *lot* wider

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:44:39 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On Oct 5, 2010, at 1:15 PM, shali...@gmail.com wrote: That is basically the sauce behind GPS. What is the power of the transmitters on the satellites? It can't be much, and the signal on the ground is quite a bit below the noise floor before correlation. If I recall correctly, the transmit

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

It is a pulse transmitter. It makes short bursts of 10 or 12 pulses, and then waits one GRI, and then does it again. I would think the actual continuous power draw is around 10Kw. The floor is open to anyone that wants to make the calculation. -Chuck Harris shali...@gmail.com wrote: There's

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message 4cab888b.4040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: It is a pulse transmitter. It makes short bursts of 10 or 12 pulses, and then waits one GRI, and then does it again. I would think the actual continuous power draw is around 10Kw. http://phk.freebsd.dk/photos/L9007M/dscf0458.jpg.html

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Ok, but that is no megawatt! Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling several chains simultaneously. That would up the average power proportionately. -Chuck Harris Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4cab888b.4040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: It is a pulse

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

That's why I think an amateur timing LORAN network might be quite feasable. Imagine a dozen 1 KW PEP A-LORAN stations with Rb and GPS scattered around the US. There is no reason why a single transmitter could not spoof a whole chain as it would not be used for navigation. FWIW, -John

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok, but that is no megawatt! Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling several chains simultaneously. That would up the average power proportionately. -Chuck Harris

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message 50213.12.6.201.2.1286311041.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. Fors ter writes: And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. Yeah, 0.75 inductive is not exactly stellar, but it may not matter in this case, as the Faroese power-grid is pretty sparse.

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok, but that is no megawatt! Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok, but that is no megawatt! Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling several chains simultaneously. That would up

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message 63077.12.6.201.2.1286310871.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. Fors ter writes: That's why I think an amateur timing LORAN network might be quite feasable. Imagine a dozen 1 KW PEP A-LORAN stations with Rb and GPS scattered around the US. There is no reason why a single transmitter could

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

?? Paul, I've said that at least twice. A single Tx can emulate all the Txs in a chain, since it is not used for navigation. Just emulating the Master station would be fine, but I'm not certain that all LORAN receivers would lock up, absent two or three received stations. I'd set up my time

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Yup running in circles. Not in favor of soundblaster. Looses accuracy Am in favor of spreadspct On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:06 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: ?? Paul, I've said that at least twice. A single Tx can emulate all the Txs in a chain, since it is not used for navigation. Just

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Because there is a now-useless installed base of high grade LORAN receivers and comparators out there. IMO, one Tx site could make them all live again. -John === Why try to emulate technology from WWII ? I would find it much more interesting to invent a good spread-spectrum

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/5/2010 3:59 PM, paul swed wrote: Well crazy as it sounds if you are at 100 KC you might just want 1 loran tower in a chain or even fewer. You only need 1 station not 3. Timing rcvrs worked on one signal. Frequency recovery works with master only, timing requires ranging data, so three

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

measurement time-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: j...@quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok, but that is no megawatt

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Hi The bandwidth of anything close to a Loran signal is a *lot* wider than any of the ham bands contemplated below 1 MHz. There's the minor issue of getting the power company to put in a cable to the house for your 1 Mw (capital M

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok, but that is no megawatt! Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling several

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Poul, Please explain to me how spread spectrum would enhance any process of frequency or time recovery ? I just do not see it. The reason for the spread spectrum used with the GPS is because all of the Birds are in the same base frequency. Thus the spreading codes allow for distinction

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

measurement time-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: j...@quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

The localized LORAN is not that hard, IMO: Many TNs have GPS Rbs. At least one simulator has been built. RF amps are easily available (ENI) for 100W pulse at 100 KHz. Home Depot has 250' rolls of #14 THHN. FWIW, -John Poul, Please explain to me how spread spectrum would

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

On 10/05/2010 03:17 PM, J. Forster wrote: Hi The bandwidth of anything close to a Loran signal is a *lot* wider than any of the ham bands contemplated below 1 MHz. There's the minor issue of getting the power company to put in a cable to the house for your 1 Mw (capital M not lower case M)

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

In message 4caba343.8c581...@cox.net, WB6BNQ writes: Please explain to me how spread spectrum would enhance any process of frequency or time recovery ? Ok, it is late and I'm probably going to botch this, but I'll try: The really short explanation is that your carrier transitions have

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

A couple of comments. If loran c, I built the simulator for the transmitter and its available at this website Index of /simloran http://n4iqt.com/simloran/ But I left out various wave shaping filters because there was no intent to xmit on the air. KISS principal after all its all of $29 maybe. But

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being used. -John = Ok, but that is no megawatt! Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling several chains

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi The other answer is that DSP was not really available when the original waveforms were developed. A modern system would not have a must be able to work with manual delay lines and an oscilloscope requirement on it. Bob On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

If you want to see a R E A L L Y big vlf antenna check out thest two links.  The first is about Soviet and US VLF antennas used for submarine communications during the cold war, and the second has a copule of photo's at the end of the powerpoint presentation of the installation in Cutler,

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Its not just diurnal shift it plain old jumps anytime. Have been monitoring for periods from the eastcoast using both a Tracor 577 and 2 X HP vlf117 rcvrs. All kinds of stuff occur. But then the older gents know all about that reality. Some may speak up. I like you want a second source but will

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

All All of this design and mod info is wonderful and great to fill an engineering project workbook. You can spend about $500US and get a complete HP working system including GPS antenna which I have been monitiring to 10-12 for 14 mos now and it is stable

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Yes indeed. I also have a hp rcvr. But Pauls request was for an alternate approach. I regularly matched LORAN C wwvb and GPS. It was nice having an alternate. wwvb really isn't but its about all we have now. On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 8:53 PM, k3...@aol.com wrote: All All of this design and mod

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

a thought... 73 Brice KA8MAV - Original Message - From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Yes indeed. I also have a hp rcvr. But Pauls

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Heathkid wrote: Doesn't someone on here with a Ham license have a Cs standard and could put up a 1pps signal? Simply transmit your callsign within the 1pps (there has to be a way) and we have a non-Govt. time standard if needed. A simple 1pps PSK-31 (or other digital mode) signal would

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Uhmmm There is this station called WWV that does just that on at least 5, 10 and 15MHz. And if you are worried about it being broadcast by the US government, you can always try CHU in Canada. And if you are worried about the station being in North America, there are time stations in

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

a) broadcasts aren't legal for US hams b) ionospheric uncertainty in the skywave path makes this no better than WWV c) Whats wrong with GPS and/or WWV and/or CHU or whatever? d) A cheap Rb would give you a local reference that is much better than what you could do with receiving something

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver Heathkid wrote: Doesn't someone on here with a Ham license have a Cs standard and could put up a 1pps signal? Simply transmit your callsign within the 1pps (there has to be a way) and we have

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

One more note before I just read the posts for a while... a) broadcasts aren't legal for US hams Do some reading on telemetry and when broadcasts ARE allowed. I've been a Ham for more than 30+ years. b) ionospheric uncertainty in the skywave path makes this no better than WWV No

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

It hears WWVB quite well, but then it is a rather strong signal. Seriously, a HP3586B would be a fine receiver for a WWVB timing setup, but way, way, overkill. In other words, perfect for time-nuts! -Chuck Perry Sandeen wrote: Gents, Has anybody used a HP 3586B for a 60KHz receiver? If so,

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Hi John, Comparison to a local standard would probably work out better with a TRF receiver than with a superhet... too many standards to sort out. It would be trivial to use a 3586B to detect the time signal, you can hear it chugging along merrily. -Chuck Harris J. Forster wrote: Hi Chuck,

Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

the 3586s work fine for hearing wwvb. But it does get interesting on tracking the signal. Its tough on the eastcoast. On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:45 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: Hi John, Comparison to a local standard would probably work out better with a TRF receiver than with a