Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin Manolace wrote: I think you are wrong on this one. At least on Linux ( and low-end hardware ) SWT seems to be faster, even with the crapy GTK bindings ( that could be optimized a lot ). I guess what's more important in SWT is the design based on using the platform UI instead of drawing pixels and attempting to make it look like the real platform widgets. There is also the issue of complexity - SWT is a very clean and simple API. I spent a lot of time with SWT - if I would write an UI app, it'll be my choice. All right, maybe I am wrong then. It is evident that GNU Java is there for SWT apps, which is already a big benefit. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Well I really like SWT , it remember me the old time of UI designing under MacOS, and the Free Visual Editor is really great. But may be we should be back to the original subject, Tomcat as TLP ;) On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:36:55 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Costin Manolace wrote: I think you are wrong on this one. At least on Linux ( and low-end hardware ) SWT seems to be faster, even with the crapy GTK bindings ( that could be optimized a lot ). I guess what's more important in SWT is the design based on using the platform UI instead of drawing pixels and attempting to make it look like the real platform widgets. There is also the issue of complexity - SWT is a very clean and simple API. I spent a lot of time with SWT - if I would write an UI app, it'll be my choice. All right, maybe I am wrong then. It is evident that GNU Java is there for SWT apps, which is already a big benefit. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
On Mar 23, 2005, at 5:07 PM, Costin Manolache wrote: Jim Jagielski wrote: The PMC Chair has ultimate authority, since the position is board appointed and results in the Chair being a VP of the ASF. There's no precedent for sharing the role or having a co-Chair. The PMC Chair is the point man for the PMC. Yes, we know - that's one of the reasons some people want this to be a 'rotating' position. Sharing the role ( i.e. the tasks ) has a lot of precedents. I have no problem with someone having this kind of authority - in projects like Linux or Python, where the guy in charge created the project in the first place. I am not confortable at all with having the 'ultimate' authority appointed - even when (in most cases) it is at the recomandation of the community. IMO it is the worse of both worlds. The bylaws are quite clear, I think, regarding this: Section 6.3. Project Management Committees. In addition to the officers of the corporation, the Board of Directors may, by resolution, establish one or more Project Management Committees consisting of at least one officer of the corporation, who shall be designated chairman of such committee, and may include one or more other members of the corporation. Unless elected or appointed as an officer in accordance with Sections 6.1 and 6.4 of these Bylaws, a member of a Project Management Committee shall not be deemed an officer of the corporation. Each Project Management Committee shall be responsible for the active management of one or more projects identified by resolution of the Board of Directors which may include, without limitation, the creation or maintenance of open-source software for distribution to the public at no charge. Subject to the direction of the Board of Directors, the chairman of each Project Management Committee shall be primarily responsible for project(s) managed by such committee, and he or she shall establish rules and procedures for the day to day management of project(s) for which the committee is responsible - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin Manolache wrote: Yoav Shapira wrote: If Remy is interested, I think it would be fair to have a vote. If whoever is first later decide he had too much politics/admin pains - we'll have a backup ready :-) At this point, I think I cannot avoid being a candidate. Yoav may be the best chair, however, so there's an opportunity for a real election. I'm at the moment in favor of allowing non consecutive one year terms. Unfortunately, it means two people can share the job, which would defeat the purpose, but without this, we could run out of worthy/willing candidates pretty fast. I don't know what are the rules wrt board meetings ( if only the pmc is allowed, etc ), but while there is only one pmc chair, we can have as many volunteers as we want to help with the admin stuff - reports, etc( if I remember, Henri was doing this long before he became chair of jakarta pmc, same for Geir ). Right. So it's great to have as many people as possible volunteer for the unpleasand admin work - it will only make the admin job easier, and it'll make the rotation transition easier too. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
+1 -Tim Yoav Shapira wrote: A lot of stuff which can be found here: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-devm=50145415683w=2 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:56:38 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm at the moment in favor of allowing non consecutive one year terms. Unfortunately, it means two people can share the job, which would defeat the purpose, but without this, we could run out of worthy/willing candidates pretty fast. +1 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: Hi, Below is a draft of our TLP proposal. The format is fairly standard, copied from other recent TLP promotions. (You can see those in ASF Board meeting minutes). I've added all currently active committers to the initial PMC. If I've missed anyone, please let me know. Part of the proposal is the initial PMC Chairman. I'd like to put myself up as a candidate, and if anyone else is interested, now's the time to speak up. This is a rotating term anyways, so anyone interested who sticks around long enough will get a chance to wear the hat. Once we agree on the draft phrasing, we'll have an actual vote. I believe that actually takes place on [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than tomcat-dev? Are there any active Tomcat committers who are not Jakarta PMC members? If I were to guess, maybe Peter anyone else as new? Ok, so I vote +1 to this, on the condition that the move (CVS move, etc, etc) only occurs at least two weeks after the next stable 5.5.x release is made (so that if it turns out bad, we have time to fix it). The scope of the project as defined seems fine, as the range of subprojects already part of Tomcat is large: native connectors, a custom HTTP-like protocol, an admin webapp, etc. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Did there is interest in a JFACE/SWT admin application ? On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:10:55 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yoav Shapira wrote: Hi, Below is a draft of our TLP proposal. The format is fairly standard, copied from other recent TLP promotions. (You can see those in ASF Board meeting minutes). I've added all currently active committers to the initial PMC. If I've missed anyone, please let me know. Part of the proposal is the initial PMC Chairman. I'd like to put myself up as a candidate, and if anyone else is interested, now's the time to speak up. This is a rotating term anyways, so anyone interested who sticks around long enough will get a chance to wear the hat. Once we agree on the draft phrasing, we'll have an actual vote. I believe that actually takes place on [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than tomcat-dev? Are there any active Tomcat committers who are not Jakarta PMC members? If I were to guess, maybe Peter anyone else as new? Ok, so I vote +1 to this, on the condition that the move (CVS move, etc, etc) only occurs at least two weeks after the next stable 5.5.x release is made (so that if it turns out bad, we have time to fix it). The scope of the project as defined seems fine, as the range of subprojects already part of Tomcat is large: native connectors, a custom HTTP-like protocol, an admin webapp, etc. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Henri Gomez wrote: Did there is interest in a JFACE/SWT admin application ? If you ask me, Eclipse's strength is no longer SWT. At the moment, it's more like a liability, as Swing has become better. The exception is still on Windows (to some extent) where the Swing impl still needs some more polish (font antialias support, for example). Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Should I read that now Swing on SDK 1.5 is faster than SWT ? On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:46:10 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Gomez wrote: Did there is interest in a JFACE/SWT admin application ? If you ask me, Eclipse's strength is no longer SWT. At the moment, it's more like a liability, as Swing has become better. The exception is still on Windows (to some extent) where the Swing impl still needs some more polish (font antialias support, for example). Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
my non scientific tests with jdk1.5 using JMeter tells me it's a bit faster than jdk1.4, but I doubt it is faster than SWT. If I had more free time, I would definitely be interested in a SWT admin application. oh well, that's life :) peter On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:49:46 +0100, Henri Gomez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should I read that now Swing on SDK 1.5 is faster than SWT ? On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:46:10 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Gomez wrote: Did there is interest in a JFACE/SWT admin application ? If you ask me, Eclipse's strength is no longer SWT. At the moment, it's more like a liability, as Swing has become better. The exception is still on Windows (to some extent) where the Swing impl still needs some more polish (font antialias support, for example). Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Remy Maucherat wrote: Costin Manolache wrote: Yoav Shapira wrote: If Remy is interested, I think it would be fair to have a vote. If whoever is first later decide he had too much politics/admin pains - we'll have a backup ready :-) At this point, I think I cannot avoid being a candidate. Yoav may be the best chair, however, so there's an opportunity for a real election. Good. Let's get this over then. I never liked one candidate elections or elections with 99% results ( remind me of an evil system :-) Yoav would be an excelent chair - however Remy has my vote this time. I'm at the moment in favor of allowing non consecutive one year terms. Of course :-) Costin Unfortunately, it means two people can share the job, which would defeat the purpose, but without this, we could run out of worthy/willing candidates pretty fast. I don't know what are the rules wrt board meetings ( if only the pmc is allowed, etc ), but while there is only one pmc chair, we can have as many volunteers as we want to help with the admin stuff - reports, etc( if I remember, Henri was doing this long before he became chair of jakarta pmc, same for Geir ). Right. So it's great to have as many people as possible volunteer for the unpleasand admin work - it will only make the admin job easier, and it'll make the rotation transition easier too. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: Once we agree on the draft phrasing, we'll have an actual vote. So, as far as I can read the thread, we have two candidates for the chair, Remy and yourself, so let's make a vote. There is also a chair rotation proposal on a yearly basis, that I would like to change to a 'Yearly election for a chair among PMC members'. That would mean that the active PMC would be obligated to make a election process each year. Also I would like that we rather make a parliamentary rather then presidential type of government, with PMC making all major decisions, thus making a chairman our representative, not our boss. How that sounds? Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
The PMC Chair has ultimate authority, since the position is board appointed and results in the Chair being a VP of the ASF. There's no precedent for sharing the role or having a co-Chair. The PMC Chair is the point man for the PMC. The PMC Chair is nominated by the PMC, and the recommendation is sent in with the PMC resolution. The board then debates the issue and will usually approve the resolution and appoint the nominated person as chair. Since the PMC Chair is the main guy for the PMC, it is even more an issue for that person to be very much an ASF weenie and understand and embrace the Apache Way... It can be a political and managerial kind of position and any candidate should realize that sad fact :/ -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Mladen Turk wrote: Also I would like that we rather make a parliamentary rather then presidential type of government, with PMC making all major decisions, thus making a chairman our representative, not our boss. That is, of course, the normal method. It's the PMC Chair's duty to ensure that the PMC is operating according to the bylaws of the ASF, the charter of the PMC and in accordance with the Apache Way. As far as code development is concerned, he is just a normal committer, no more, no less. -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Peter Lin wrote: my non scientific tests with jdk1.5 using JMeter tells me it's a bit faster than jdk1.4, but I doubt it is faster than SWT. If I had more free time, I would definitely be interested in a SWT admin application. oh well, that's life :) As you may have noticed, I do like some of the Eclipse stuff (and I use Eclipse-the-IDE itself). Regardless of its performance (which is actually bad on non Windows systems, from what I understand), I would however have to veto usage of SWT, given the better overall performance one gets with Swing. Obviously, you can try to demonstrate that this is not the case, and SWT is superior on all platforms, but somehow I doubt it. The only remaining benefit I see is portability to non Sun JVMs, as the free implementation of Swing isn't complete yet (this seems to be progressing very quickly at the moment, however). Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
:) like I said, totally unscientific eye ball. but I'm also totally bias. I prefer the SWT API over swing. even though I have to use swing for JMeter. of course, not that my opinion really matters, since Im not a tomcat committer ;p peter On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:40:09 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Lin wrote: my non scientific tests with jdk1.5 using JMeter tells me it's a bit faster than jdk1.4, but I doubt it is faster than SWT. If I had more free time, I would definitely be interested in a SWT admin application. oh well, that's life :) As you may have noticed, I do like some of the Eclipse stuff (and I use Eclipse-the-IDE itself). Regardless of its performance (which is actually bad on non Windows systems, from what I understand), I would however have to veto usage of SWT, given the better overall performance one gets with Swing. Obviously, you can try to demonstrate that this is not the case, and SWT is superior on all platforms, but somehow I doubt it. The only remaining benefit I see is portability to non Sun JVMs, as the free implementation of Swing isn't complete yet (this seems to be progressing very quickly at the moment, however). Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:37:45 -0500 (EST), Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The PMC Chair has ultimate authority, since the position is board appointed and results in the Chair being a VP of the ASF. There's no precedent for sharing the role or having a co-Chair. The PMC Chair is the point man for the PMC. Yeah, I think there might be confusion over the fact that the Chair and the VP are the same person and not two different roles. The PMC Chair is nominated by the PMC, and the recommendation is sent in with the PMC resolution. The board then debates the issue and will usually approve the resolution and appoint the nominated person as chair. Since the PMC Chair is the main guy for the PMC, it is even more an issue for that person to be very much an ASF weenie and understand and embrace the Apache Way... It can be a political and managerial kind of position and any candidate should realize that sad fact :/ Yep. I think there's a very difficult choice to make between a leader and a servant. Without meaning to cause insult, I'll use Lucene as an example. Doug Cutting is the founder of Lucene and definitely one of the leaders of the community. He was voted in as the chair. Erik Hatcher however did a lot of the TLP preparation, legwork and migration crap. While the chair does get looked to for leadership, there's a lot of servitude to the community needed as well and unless you have people volunteering, the chair will have to handle that themselves. If Doug didn't have Erik volunteering to support him, would he want to sacrifice that much time? Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes time. On the ASF weenie/Apache Way bit; anyone who is an ASF member should already have passed that one, and Yoav and Remy are both members. So while it may be true, I don't think it matters in this case. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Henri Yandell wrote: Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes time. Well, I'll volunteer for CVS transition if no one else wants. So one problem less. Regarding documentation, I know how to use sed, back from '80s. So thats the other problem resolved. Anything else :) Regards, Mladen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:15:24 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes time. Well, I'll volunteer for CVS transition if no one else wants. Now's a good time to think about SVN *grin*. There's nothing official yet, but last I heard the proposal was to cut CVS off at the end of the year. So one problem less. Regarding documentation, I know how to use sed, back from '80s. So thats the other problem resolved. Anything else :) The sleepless nights, the stress, the joy, the tears Although that might be more to do with my 5-month year old son than anything to do with Jakarta :) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Henri Yandell wrote: On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:15:24 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes time. Well, I'll volunteer for CVS transition if no one else wants. Now's a good time to think about SVN *grin*. There's nothing official yet, but last I heard the proposal was to cut CVS off at the end of the year. SVN apparently doesn't provide good enough tools for me. For example, I haven't been able to get a revision graph out of it. As a result, it is much less efficient than CVS for being able to isolate a change which causes a bug. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:39:40 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:15:24 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: Biggest warning I have is that the servitude takes time. It'll be a lot less for Tomcat than it is for me in Jakarta, but it still takes time. Well, I'll volunteer for CVS transition if no one else wants. Now's a good time to think about SVN *grin*. There's nothing official yet, but last I heard the proposal was to cut CVS off at the end of the year. SVN apparently doesn't provide good enough tools for me. For example, I haven't been able to get a revision graph out of it. As a result, it is much less efficient than CVS for being able to isolate a change which causes a bug. Yep, I'm in full agreement that 3rd party CVS support, and our experience of CVS, is significantly better than SVN. SVN does fix some bugs/basic issues that it seems we're never going to get fixed in CVS, but I find myself pining for CVS's less intelligent tagging concepts. However, SVN has sufficient advantages on the server-side for the people administrating the Apache boxes to long for it, and the choice of techs is a balance between various people's requirements. I've nudged Infra to see if they're planning to propose the CVS-tuning-off proposal to the community soon, as the earlier the better. It was meant to be an item of discussion at the Infrathon, and as far as I know the basic jist will be that they'd like to be off of CVS by 2006. So that'll definitely be an issue coming soon for the Tomcat community (and a few others). Let me rephrase the above to suggest that it would be a good idea for Tomcat to solve the SVN question prior to spending time on their SCM migration. Jetspeed continued to use the jakarta-jetspeed module for a long time after their promotion, so there's no hard requirement to cut all the coupling at the same time. (Must check if jakarta-jetspeed is still active :) ). Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Remy Maucherat remm at apache.org writes: Peter Lin wrote: my non scientific tests with jdk1.5 using JMeter tells me it's a bit faster than jdk1.4, but I doubt it is faster than SWT. If I had more free time, I would definitely be interested in a SWT admin application. oh well, that's life :) As you may have noticed, I do like some of the Eclipse stuff (and I use Eclipse-the-IDE itself). Regardless of its performance (which is actually bad on non Windows systems, from what I understand), I would however have to veto usage of SWT, given the better overall performance one gets with Swing. Obviously, you can try to demonstrate that this is not the case, and SWT is superior on all platforms, but somehow I doubt it. The only remaining benefit I see is portability to non Sun JVMs, as the free implementation of Swing isn't complete yet (this seems to be progressing very quickly at the moment, however). I think you are wrong on this one. At least on Linux ( and low-end hardware ) SWT seems to be faster, even with the crapy GTK bindings ( that could be optimized a lot ). I guess what's more important in SWT is the design based on using the platform UI instead of drawing pixels and attempting to make it look like the real platform widgets. There is also the issue of complexity - SWT is a very clean and simple API. I spent a lot of time with SWT - if I would write an UI app, it'll be my choice. However, I think it would be more interesting to do the the admin app in XUL. Seriously ! It'll mean it requires mozilla/firefox/etc - but I think it would be easier to maintain and develop it, and much more interesting. Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Henri Yandell flamefew at gmail.com writes: However, SVN has sufficient advantages on the server-side for the people administrating the Apache boxes to long for it, and the choice of techs is a balance between various people's requirements. I've nudged Infra to see if they're planning to propose the CVS-tuning-off proposal to the community soon, as the earlier the better. Propose or impose ? Typically 'propose' means the community would have some way to say 'yes' or 'no'. I agree SVN is better - and for a new project it would certainly be the top choice. But I can't believe maintaining cvs for existing projects ( or the few projects that chose to keep using it ) is such a huge burden. If this is an issue of resources - will this be solved if someone would volunteer to maintain it ? Or maybe if some company would donate the money for a hosting service ( like openoffice.org or java.net seem to work ) ? Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
When the SVN support will be included in base Eclipse may be ... For now CVS on Eclipse is just great and more important works without flaw On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:33:27 + (UTC), Costin Manolace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henri Yandell flamefew at gmail.com writes: However, SVN has sufficient advantages on the server-side for the people administrating the Apache boxes to long for it, and the choice of techs is a balance between various people's requirements. I've nudged Infra to see if they're planning to propose the CVS-tuning-off proposal to the community soon, as the earlier the better. Propose or impose ? Typically 'propose' means the community would have some way to say 'yes' or 'no'. I agree SVN is better - and for a new project it would certainly be the top choice. But I can't believe maintaining cvs for existing projects ( or the few projects that chose to keep using it ) is such a huge burden. If this is an issue of resources - will this be solved if someone would volunteer to maintain it ? Or maybe if some company would donate the money for a hosting service ( like openoffice.org or java.net seem to work ) ? Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Jim Jagielski wrote: The PMC Chair has ultimate authority, since the position is board appointed and results in the Chair being a VP of the ASF. There's no precedent for sharing the role or having a co-Chair. The PMC Chair is the point man for the PMC. Yes, we know - that's one of the reasons some people want this to be a 'rotating' position. Sharing the role ( i.e. the tasks ) has a lot of precedents. I have no problem with someone having this kind of authority - in projects like Linux or Python, where the guy in charge created the project in the first place. I am not confortable at all with having the 'ultimate' authority appointed - even when (in most cases) it is at the recomandation of the community. IMO it is the worse of both worlds. The PMC Chair is nominated by the PMC, and the recommendation is sent in with the PMC resolution. The board then debates the issue and will usually approve the resolution and appoint the nominated person as chair. Since the PMC Chair is the main guy for the PMC, it is even more an issue for that person to be very much an ASF weenie and understand and embrace the Apache Way... It can be a political and managerial kind of position and any candidate should realize that sad fact :/ Well, Remy and Yoav are members of ASF - so they clearly passed the 'Apache Way' test. If this is a requirement - than the pool of candidates is going to be quite small ( Remy, Yoav, you, Bill - and Craig or Justina if they choose to get back ) For 'managerial' and 'political' - I think both did both ( maybe without enjoying it, but still...) Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
sleep deprevation is good for you! sorry I couldn't resist. peter On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:28:23 -0500, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sleepless nights, the stress, the joy, the tears Although that might be more to do with my 5-month year old son than anything to do with Jakarta :) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TLP Draft Proposal
Hi, Sharing the role ( i.e. the tasks ) has a lot of precedents. And I think it'll be multiple people helping out, e.g. filling out parts of the board report relevant to what they're working on. Well, Remy and Yoav are members of ASF - so they clearly passed the 'Apache Way' test. If this is a requirement - than the pool of candidates is going to be quite small ( Remy, Yoav, you, Bill - and Craig or Justina if they choose to get back ) I don't think being an ASF member is (or should be) a requirement. For 'managerial' and 'political' - I think both did both ( maybe without enjoying it, but still...) I enjoy the managerial, administrative, and bookkeeping aspects of this and other jobs. That probably puts me in a small minority within this group ;) But at the same time might be a good factor in being a PMC chair, since I see the large majority of it as being administrative. As Mladen said previously, all major decisions will be made by PMC consensus. On a day to day basis, coding, commits, votes, etc, nothing will change anyways. Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Tomcat PMC: NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? Henri Gomez of course :). He's one of the emirates. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TLP Draft Proposal
Yup, forgot Henri and Senor Clere as well, will add them right away. Yoav -Original Message- From: Mladen Turk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:34 AM To: Tomcat Developers List Subject: Re: TLP Draft Proposal Yoav Shapira wrote: RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Tomcat PMC: NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? Henri Gomez of course :). He's one of the emirates. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Mladen Turk wrote: NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? Henri Gomez of course :). He's one of the emirates. And Jean-Frederic Clere of course. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Could you check the avail file on CVSROOT to see who is tomcat commiters ? Faster, easier, safer :) On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:37:46 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mladen Turk wrote: NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? Henri Gomez of course :). He's one of the emirates. And Jean-Frederic Clere of course. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TLP Draft Proposal
Hi, I could... But there's the question of whether we want all committers on the PMC or just the active ones. The avail file has, in addition to the people I already listed: duncan,jon,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon,shachor,bergsten,gonzo,mode,har ishp,arun,craigmcc,jluc,nacho,aried\ el,horwat,ed,alex,gaburici,jiricka,pierred,glenn,larryi,arieh,marcsaeg,danmi l,shai,keith,kief,melaquias,m\ braden,clucas,bip,seguin,mmanders,andya,ccain,bojan,patrickl,jazmin,ekr,manv een,cks,denisb,dsandbe\ rg,bobh,idarwin,johnturner,ecarmich,fuankg,clar,jim,wrowe John Turner, Jim J., Bill Rowe are obviously active, I'll add them right now. But many of the above are not active, emeritus committers... Yoav -Original Message- From: Henri Gomez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:40 AM To: Tomcat Developers List Subject: Re: TLP Draft Proposal Could you check the avail file on CVSROOT to see who is tomcat commiters ? Faster, easier, safer :) On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:37:46 +0100, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mladen Turk wrote: NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? Henri Gomez of course :). He's one of the emirates. And Jean-Frederic Clere of course. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: Hi, I could... But there's the question of whether we want all committers on the PMC or just the active ones. The avail file has, in addition to the people I already listed: duncan,jon,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon,shachor,bergsten,gonzo,mode,har ishp,arun,craigmcc,jluc,nacho,aried\ el,horwat,ed,alex,gaburici,jiricka,pierred,glenn,larryi,arieh,marcsaeg,danmi l,shai,keith,kief,melaquias,m\ braden,clucas,bip,seguin,mmanders,andya,ccain,bojan,patrickl,jazmin,ekr,manv een,cks,denisb,dsandbe\ rg,bobh,idarwin,johnturner,ecarmich,fuankg,clar,jim,wrowe John Turner, Jim J., Bill Rowe are obviously active, I'll add them right now. But many of the above are not active, emeritus committers... Personally, I would agree if people did not think I deserved PMC member status. I would be honored to accept, but would 100% understand if there were, well... thoughts that it was unwarranted :) -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
some comments from an outsider, please forgive me 8-) On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Yoav Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Below is a draft of our TLP proposal. The format is fairly standard, copied from other recent TLP promotions. (You can see those in ASF Board meeting minutes). You will also find that if a proposal had problems in the past, it usually has been because of the project scope it described. RESOLVED, that the Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to creation and maintenance of open-source software related to Servlet and Java Server Pages technologies based on software licensed to the Foundation; and be it further may be a bit broad - I mean, Struts, Tapestry, Turbine and others are related to Servlet and Java Server Pages technologies, aren't they? Implementation of the Servlet and JavaServer Pages JSRs? I'm honestly not sure myself. Part of the proposal is the initial PMC Chairman. [...] This is a rotating term anyways, Only if you want to make it one ... Strictly speaking the PMC chair is appointed by the board and not elected by the PMC. Once we agree on the draft phrasing, we'll have an actual vote. I believe that actually takes place on [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than tomcat-dev? When Ant or Gump became TLPs, we voted on the dev lists and then asked the Jakarta PMC to support the resolution, which the PMC happily did and sure will do for the Tomcat resolution. Cheers Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Stefan Bodewig wrote: Part of the proposal is the initial PMC Chairman. [...] This is a rotating term anyways, Only if you want to make it one ... Strictly speaking the PMC chair is appointed by the board and not elected by the PMC. True, but the proposal should specify the Chair that has been voted on my the pre-PMC. The board usually appoints the person that the PMC has chosen -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
I'd be honored to be part of this transition if others deem it appropriate. Thanks, Keith Yoav Shapira wrote: NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that [XXX] be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Tomcat, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further +1 I would like to propose Remy == XX ( he can obviously refuse, but I hope he will not do that ). Obvious reasons on why he is the best choice, so I don't think consensus will be a problem - only his acceptance ( it'll not involve too much coding :-). Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin you would be a nice PMC member also :) On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:31:05 -0800, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yoav Shapira wrote: NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that [XXX] be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Tomcat, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further +1 I would like to propose Remy == XX ( he can obviously refuse, but I hope he will not do that ). Obvious reasons on why he is the best choice, so I don't think consensus will be a problem - only his acceptance ( it'll not involve too much coding :-). Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TLP Draft Proposal
Hi, I would like to propose Remy == XX ( he can obviously refuse, but I hope he will not do that ). Obvious reasons on why he is the best choice, so I don't think consensus will be a problem - only his acceptance ( it'll not involve too much coding :-). I was thinking Remy might refuse, so he doesn't have to deal with all the administrative stuff that comes with the role. That and my own interest in the role prevent consensus at this point ;) Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin Manolache wrote: I would like to propose Remy == XX ( he can obviously refuse, but I hope he will not do that ). Obvious reasons on why he is the best choice, so I don't think consensus will be a problem - only his acceptance ( it'll not involve too much coding :-). Sure. And I would like to propose the Yoav as a V.P. Those two guys has show so much enthusiasm and meritocracy, that I can only salute them :) Go Go Tomcat! Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Jim Jagielski wrote: Yoav Shapira wrote: Hi, I could... But there's the question of whether we want all committers on the PMC or just the active ones. The avail file has, in addition to the people I already listed: duncan,jon,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon,shachor,bergsten,gonzo,mode,har ishp,arun,craigmcc,jluc,nacho,aried\ el,horwat,ed,alex,gaburici,jiricka,pierred,glenn,larryi,arieh,marcsaeg,danmi l,shai,keith,kief,melaquias,m\ braden,clucas,bip,seguin,mmanders,andya,ccain,bojan,patrickl,jazmin,ekr,manv een,cks,denisb,dsandbe\ rg,bobh,idarwin,johnturner,ecarmich,fuankg,clar,jim,wrowe John Turner, Jim J., Bill Rowe are obviously active, I'll add them right now. But many of the above are not active, emeritus committers... Personally, I would agree if people did not think I deserved PMC member status. I would be honored to accept, but would 100% understand if there were, well... thoughts that it was unwarranted :) I hope that Tomcat PMC will be one where each active committer who is willing will be a member, I don't want it to be an arbitrary and random process like it was in jakarta ( or asf membership ). If you are working on tomcat, I can't see why not be in PMC ( unless you really don't want to ) I don't know if I deserve it tough - since I haven't been very active last year - but since my project is now over, I hope to get back on tomcat and become active :-) Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: Hi, I would like to propose Remy == XX ( he can obviously refuse, but I hope he will not do that ). Obvious reasons on why he is the best choice, so I don't think consensus will be a problem - only his acceptance ( it'll not involve too much coding :-). I was thinking Remy might refuse, so he doesn't have to deal with all the administrative stuff that comes with the role. That and my own interest in the role prevent consensus at this point ;) It Remy will refuse - you have my vote :-) It's just that he done so much coding in this project - that I think it would be good if he is the first chair. I think the idea of rotating ( let's say yearly ? ) would be an excelent one - it'll avoid having people serve for too much ( and sometimes avoid bad habbits - like forgeting to ask the community before making important decisions :-) Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin Manolache wrote: Jim Jagielski wrote: Personally, I would agree if people did not think I deserved PMC member status. I would be honored to accept, but would 100% understand if there were, well... thoughts that it was unwarranted :) I hope that Tomcat PMC will be one where each active committer who is willing will be a member, I don't want it to be an arbitrary and random process like it was in jakarta ( or asf membership ). If you are working on tomcat, I can't see why not be in PMC ( unless you really don't want to ) I would like to be on the PMC, but I didn't want to start any debates :) -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ There 10 types of people: those who read binary and everyone else. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin Manolache wrote: Yoav Shapira wrote: I think the idea of rotating ( let's say yearly ? ) would be an excelent one - it'll avoid having people serve for too much ( and sometimes avoid bad habbits - like forgeting to ask the community before making important decisions :-) That's a decent plan. What do the other projects do about that ? Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TLP Draft Proposal
Howdy, I think the idea of rotating ( let's say yearly ? ) would be an excelent one - it'll avoid having people serve for too much ( and sometimes avoid bad habbits - like forgeting to ask the community before making important decisions :-) That's a decent plan. What do the other projects do about that ? Logging Services, which formed just recently, has a yearly PMC chair term, but the incumbent can repeat the role if the PMC so votes. Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: Howdy, I think the idea of rotating ( let's say yearly ? ) would be an excelent one - it'll avoid having people serve for too much ( and sometimes avoid bad habbits - like forgeting to ask the community before making important decisions :-) That's a decent plan. What do the other projects do about that ? Logging Services, which formed just recently, has a yearly PMC chair term, but the incumbent can repeat the role if the PMC so votes. Sounds ok - I would preffer a real rotation. What about 'can repeat the role if he wants and there is no other candidate' ? ( if he doesn't want - of course, someone else needs to be 'volunteered' ). Costin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Costin Manolache wrote: It Remy will refuse - you have my vote :-) It's just that he done so much coding in this project - that I think it would be good if he is the first chair. I think we all agree that Remy is our first candidate for being a Tomcat PMC Chairman. I would also like to have Yoav as V.P. like I said already, so seems to me that we have some sort of lazy consensus :) What do you guys (parties in the subject) have to say about that? Lat's put all the cards on the table, do what ever is needed and move forward. I'm getting tired of all that politic bullshit, but I'm also aware it must be done. So ... Remy, Yoav? Regards, Mladen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Didn't we propose TLP a while back ago when we were little? ;-) Anyone remember what happened then? Just curious... Thanks, Amy Yoav Shapira wrote: Hi, Below is a draft of our TLP proposal. The format is fairly standard, copied from other recent TLP promotions. (You can see those in ASF Board meeting minutes). I've added all currently active committers to the initial PMC. If I've missed anyone, please let me know. Part of the proposal is the initial PMC Chairman. I'd like to put myself up as a candidate, and if anyone else is interested, now's the time to speak up. This is a rotating term anyways, so anyone interested who sticks around long enough will get a chance to wear the hat. Once we agree on the draft phrasing, we'll have an actual vote. I believe that actually takes place on [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than tomcat-dev? Are there any active Tomcat committers who are not Jakarta PMC members? If I were to guess, maybe Peter anyone else as new? Yoav [BEGIN DRAFT PROPOSAL] X. Establish the Apache Tomcat Project WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of open-source software related to the Servlet and Java Server Pages specifications, for distribution at no charge to the public. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC), to be known as the Apache Tomcat PMC, be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to creation and maintenance of open-source software related to Servlet and Java Server Pages technologies based on software licensed to the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the office of Vice President, Apache Tomcat be and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache Tomcat PMC, and to have primary responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache Tomcat PMC; and be it further RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Tomcat PMC: Jean-Francois Arcand ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Bill Barker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Tim Funk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Filip Hanik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Jan Luehe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Costin Manolache ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Remy Maucherat ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Amy Roh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Peter Rossbach ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Yoav Shapira ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Mark Thomas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Mladen Turk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) NOTE: Who am I missing? Kin-man? Craig? Keith? Others? NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that [XXX] be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Tomcat, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and increased participation in the Apache Tomcat Project; and be it further RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache Jakarta PMC Tomcat subproject; and be it further RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Jakarta Tomcat sub-project and encumbered upon the Apache Jakarta PMC are hereafter discharged. [END OF DRAFT PROPOSAL] Yoav Shapira System Design and Management Fellow MIT Sloan School of Management / School of Engineering Cambridge, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TLP Draft Proposal
Hola, What do you guys (parties in the subject) have to say about that? Lat's put all the cards on the table, do what ever is needed and move forward. I'm getting tired of all that politic bullshit, but I'm also aware it must be done. So ... Remy, Yoav? I'm waiting to hear from Remy on what he wants to do. He has to want to be the PMC chair ;) If he does want it and all the admin stuff that goes with it, it's fine with me. The role of a VP is something we can define, but doesn't really exist within other ASF projects, which just have the PMC chair and the rest of the PMC, so I don't think we need one. I'm also fine with the annual rotation as suggested by Costin. Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
+1 for the proposal (comment on the scope of the proposed PMC in line) +1 for a annually rotating chair with an option to be reelected Mark Stefan Bodewig wrote: some comments from an outsider, please forgive me 8-) You will also find that if a proposal had problems in the past, it usually has been because of the project scope it described. RESOLVED, that the Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of software related to creation and maintenance of open-source software related to Servlet and Java Server Pages technologies based on software licensed to the Foundation; and be it further may be a bit broad - I mean, Struts, Tapestry, Turbine and others are related to Servlet and Java Server Pages technologies, aren't they? Implementation of the Servlet and JavaServer Pages JSRs? I'm honestly not sure myself. I assume you mean related to the Implementation of the Servlet and JavaServer Pages JSRs since Implementation of the Servlet and JavaServer Pages JSRs would be very narrow and exclude important parts of Tomcat such as clustering support, AJP support, etc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Yoav Shapira wrote: Hola, What do you guys (parties in the subject) have to say about that? Lat's put all the cards on the table, do what ever is needed and move forward. I'm getting tired of all that politic bullshit, but I'm also aware it must be done. So ... Remy, Yoav? I'm waiting to hear from Remy on what he wants to do. He has to want to be the PMC chair ;) If he does want it and all the admin stuff that goes with it, it's fine with me. The role of a VP is something we can define, but doesn't really exist within other ASF projects, which just have the PMC chair and the rest of the PMC, so I don't think we need one. If Remy is interested, I think it would be fair to have a vote. If whoever is first later decide he had too much politics/admin pains - we'll have a backup ready :-) I don't know what are the rules wrt board meetings ( if only the pmc is allowed, etc ), but while there is only one pmc chair, we can have as many volunteers as we want to help with the admin stuff - reports, etc( if I remember, Henri was doing this long before he became chair of jakarta pmc, same for Geir ). So it's great to have as many people as possible volunteer for the unpleasand admin work - it will only make the admin job easier, and it'll make the rotation transition easier too. Costin I'm also fine with the annual rotation as suggested by Costin. Yoav - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TLP Draft Proposal
Amy Roh wrote: Didn't we propose TLP a while back ago when we were little? ;-) Anyone remember what happened then? Just curious... It's one of those things which are like referendums on Europe. Rémy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
