Eric, how wise your wife is on this mater of the mobile phone! LOL. I hae
one, check its messages a few times a day, and it's usually turned off. Re:
the liberty to not answer the phone: We all have it; who's willing to take
it?
Various private and government data horders have copies of these messages;
surely, they can be found in indices? LOL. They'll be archived, copied, and
redistributed for the life of the interwebs...
I can't resist
I'm probably old enough to be your mother, but I have the same problem with
dating and had to end a romantic liason with an otherwise pleasant gentleman
who couldn't seem to understand why I didn't just install Windows so Yahoo
messenger will work and we can cyber.
It felt
The feeling of being 'left out' is very powerful. It's so hard, sometimes I
get such a strong desire to have a smartphone, use Windows, watch soap
operas, read the gutter press, support a football team, be just like everyone
else, even though I know I'd hate it, even though I've spent my
Hi i'm a new member..ity's really true that girls use linux free softwere???
To be honest, I understand (now more than before) that there is no real need
to hide EVERYTHING about you. Of course, the kind of spying that you are
mentioning is wrong and I would say criminal. But it's like... a social
network like Diaspora, that apparently respects the users a lot more
Facebook is a global psychological profiling and surveillance tool,
masquerading as a social networking tool.
Of course it can be accessed using free software - it's a broad net, designed
to catch as many fish as possible. To lock people out based on their refusal
to use proprietary
Taking it to a serious level, don't fall for Facebook or other social media
(you could also argue get a simple cell phone not a smart one). I recenty
watched a very interesing video that came on LXF - a Stallman presentation. A
guy from East Germany (not sure if living in Ireland/Eire now)
We have free media. Whether one considers Facebook free media or not, we
still have access to free media. Facebook doesn't try to oppress every type
of media it can, but rather it collects data about its users. Therefore,
Facebook is not an attack on our civil liberties. It is completely
You wrote originally in this thread:
They [refering also to facebook] are both SaaSS.
Magic Banana posts: It is not SaaSS.
and your answer:
I agree with this. Fbit does not.
I think you're rather twisting things around so you finally reach the
conclusion that your point is proven.
On 08/10/13 16:01, oralfloss wrote:
To make an analogy, Facebook is a tolled bridge on an river that
flows downstream for an infinite amount of miles. Anyone can build
their own bridge on this river, or use already set up non-tolled
bridges. By tolling the people who cross the Facebook
The problem with analogies is we have to be very careful that they make
sense. I think your analogy is does not. A bridge, in this sense of the word,
is a structure (in this case you claim facebook) carrying a road (in this
case I assume digital information) across something (for traditional
Well, first I apologize for not replying sooner. I was without internet for a
few days -.-
Next, i would like to thanks everyone who gave some kind of feedback, and i
would like to say this: this thread was mostly supposed to be fun to begin
with. Not a very serious topic, just a fun thought
I was joking about software used to make the stamp. LOL.
The letter can be shredded after being read. But who could be bothered to
raid a recycling bin
Given the terms that fbit was using to define SaaSS, they would both be. I
don't believe either are. When I try to put things using my own definitions
all fbit can do is make his own, so I use those definitions instead. When
other people butt in to the conversation, they assume that I
But to continue that analogy, many of your friends can only be reached
across that single tolled bridge on the internet. They probably know
that it's the only bridge, but they don't know anything else (or care).
That is their own ignorance that is impairing them, not Facebook. They can
make
The problem with analogies is we have to be very careful that they make
sense. I think your analogy does not. A bridge, in this sense of the word, is
a structure (in this case you claim facebook) carrying a road (in this case I
assume digital information) across something (for traditional
oralfloss,
I had decided to give you the last word, but this seems to be the thread that
keeps on giving.
I don't use facebook so I'm not sure if it is SaaSS or PaaS and to tell you
the truth, I don't think it matters. I had already conceded to Magic Banana's
post where he said neither
This sounds like common sense, but women like a man who has good self esteem
and is confident in his conviction. If you are funny, that helps a lot too as
a good sense of humor can really break the ice on a date and sustain it if it
becomes a relationship.
Also remember that it is not a
I disagree. The intrusion into your privacy, the mass profiling,
surveillance, social mapping, predictive modeling and all the other BI that
is run on all the data given to facebook constitute attacks against freedom.
I contend that without privacy you cannot have freedom.
That's what a
On 08/10/13 09:54, oralfloss wrote:
That's what a privacy policy is for. I am free to use their services
given those conditions, just as all other services have certain
conditions. There have been many people asking about why extensive
swearing isn't allowed on Trisquel, and there are
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think you realize the
implications. I'm not saying what they're doing is illegal (although I do
think it should be). All I'm saying is that freedom is not just about free
software.
I highly recommend Eben Moglen's 2012 keynote at Re:publica.
No matter what services you use, unless they are 100% p2p, they will be
centralised.
And now look up the definition of compel.
A demand for a donation like donate now! doesn't coerce anyone in the
slightest.
With that logic, facebook doesn't coerce anyone either.
It doesn't. Nobody is forced to join Facebook. So of course, you shouldn't
join Facebook.
It doesn't.
Point proven.
So of course, you shouldn't join Facebook.
That depends on how much you value privacy, not how much you value freedom.
This thread is about free software, not privacy.
I think your right and fortunately I've been pretty good about discouraging
the people around me from adopting it. Unfortunately most don't understand
the implications from the loss of privacy. Humorously it's the ones who are
free software minded who seem to all be using it or have a desire
Facebook's content can be rendered with a free software Web browser (such as
Trisquel's Abrowser). The mobile version of Facebook does not make this
browser run proprietary Javascript. So, unless you prove the contrary,
Facebook can be used with 100% free software.
I'm not trying to prove
I only use Facebook to contact a few of my legacy friends from before I
stopped using things like Facebook. Eventually I hope to convince those few
of them to at least communicate via email or Jabber with me.
As far as I can tell, Facebook uses a closed-up, proprietary XMPP protocol
for
I am glad that the original poster has started this thread. This is
something that I have been thinking about, ever since I learned that there
was another gay boy on the bus at school. Each day, I see him at the center
of attention, with an iPad and an iPhone, asking people if they have a
He's so smooth and popular; I know I'd be so awkward that he wouldn't like
me.
But you never tried? So how can you know?
Imagine you have a facebook account and finally you two become a couple.
How would it feel knowing that this happens just because of this website?
I don't know;
Yes.
The whole point of this argument, actually this whole thread, is that the
social networking service Facebook can be used with 100% free software. And,
according to you, it isn't even SaaSS. Point proved.
You keep claiming your term Reductio ad absurdum like it means something,
but you have yet to explain the line at which something is considered that.
Anyone can reduce to absurdity, but who are you to decide at which point that
occurs? Is it just your own sense of false security that you use
It doesn't really matter and I wish you no ill. We can just agree to
disagree. I can pay some money in exchange for Trisquel and you can pay with
your privacy in exchange for facebook. Let's move on.
That's the end of this on my side.
I think we can safely end this thread here.
Despite all this, you still feel the need to get your last word in. You
really are just trying to end this with a moral high ground, rather than
defending freedom.
co·erce
transitive verb
to compel to an act or choice
You really are just projecting here; coercion isn't always bad. I never in
any way said it is bad to ask for donations, but they are trying to convince
you to donate by putting up those advertisements. That is coercion.
snip --
Facebook respects your freedom if you use the mbasic mode.
snip --
I don't know what oralfloss means by this. I imagine mbasic mode is some sort
of mobile mode? In any case I doubt facebook even releases the source of all
the code you run through their server. Much
m.facebook.com is as close to fre as you're likely to get. It even works
with a browser like lynx or emacs-w3m. I use facebook xmpp chat; wish it had
audio. Facebook can be used with free software on the client side, as a
service. True, it's not ideal...
In any case I doubt facebook even releases the source of all the code you
run through their server. Much less give you the ability to copy or modify
it. I don't see how this could respect your freedom. Without further
explanation I would say it does not.
This is true for most of the sites
The only issue is that the stamp may have been designed with non-free
software, and the postal service may use non-free sorting systems. Hopefully,
they don't have any system to read the letter.
Honestly, I think that is over thinking this. I couldn't care less how they
made the stamp, I
1. Those are not so bad ;)
2. Not my cup of tea, but not so bad themselves.
3. So... they are SonGoku in supersayian form... with boobs is that it?
=P
Well said. I think people these days need to take a look at your past life
(through the net) before they decide if they want to be your friends. Lol
quite a stupid concept if you ask me :P
hey, you convinced two people... you should be happy, that is more than most
of us can actually ;)
:) My idea was... I convince 2, they each convince 2 more... etc.
Unfortunately I think neither of them convinced anyone else yet. I don't lose
hope though.
My feeling is that I deserve control over the programs I run, whether on my
computer or not. You are right that it is the case that many websites try to
run code (beside html...and you can see that source, if you consider it
code). I try not to use run any of the so called web 2.0 shit. No
I see. I have no clue about facebook, mobile or not. It may be as close as
you are likely to get, if you want to use facebook. You can still be freer
and not use it.
The fb chat is not xmpp. From facebook developers page:
Facebook Chat should be compatible with every XMPP client, but is not
I don't know what oralfloss means by this. I imagine mbasic mode is some
sort of mobile mode? In any case I doubt facebook even releases the source of
all the code you run through their server. Much less give you the ability to
copy or modify it.
Mbasic mode is a mode where no scripts are
My feeling is that I deserve control over the programs I run, whether on my
computer or not.
You aren't running them if they aren't on the computer you are using. If you
give someone a request or submit data, you are still not running a program on
their computer.
You are right that it is
Using facebook is still one of the worse ways to give up your freedom. If
not yet, it will be.
It is a stupidity to give one corporation (plus their associates, customers,
government buddies) all that personal information.
You are voluntarily giving information away. You are not forced to
You are voluntarily giving information away. You are not forced to give
information.
Indeed, it is not physical coercion, which is what I guess you are referring
to when you say you are not forced to... I don't use it, so it is possible
not to do so. However, there are many forms of
Mbasic mode is a mode where no scripts are needed, and it is purely
server-side. There's no proprietary javascript or anything of that nature. If
you think server-side code is a major concern, you should stop using the
internet entirely.
This also goes for just about any website. If it's
Internet forums have been around since the early 80's. Added to that,
trisquel.info is community funded. We are users. On facebook and other such
services, you are the product, not the user. Maybe the term web 2.0 was
confusing. I don't use SaaSS.
Internet forums have been around since the early 80's. Added to that,
trisquel.info is community funded. We are users. On facebook and other such
services, you are the product, not the user.
All of those are owned by people, run by people, and contributed to by users.
Where's the huge
Indeed, it is not physical coercion, which is what I guess you are referring
to when you say you are not forced to... I don't use it, so it is possible
not to do so. However, there are many forms of coercion, such as
psychological and social; facebook employs those types of coercion.
And
I believe this logical fallacy is sometimes called reductio ad absurdum. I
insist there is a difference between my posting on the Trisquel forum and
using facebook, a mass surveillance, data mining, profiling system. This is
not black and white.
They are both SaaSS.
Also, your argument
I think we can safely end this thread here. Now Trisquel is coercing me to
donate. lol. Anyway, you keep reducing everything else to the absurd.
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
2) XMPP is an open standard. The opposite of the gated community example.
3) There are various degrees of monopoly, and rarely does anything
approaching pure monopoly exist. Thus, the term is generally used in a
relative sense rather
You are right. Thanks :) our privacy and our freedom.
I have convinced 2 people so far.(
I think it's great just to make good examples of ourselves by publicly
rejecting these big, centralized services -- especially services that are
known to comply with massive state surveillance of users. It's hard to
convince others (I can't even convince
Now that was a very informative post. Thanks!
Like I have said, in my country there are not a lot of clubs and meetings
like there are in the USA, but I will give a thought about doing a trip.
Oh and for the record, it's not like I am in search for a girl or anything,
the thought just
I know what you mean. One of these days I went out without taking my cell
phone ( I am starting to treat my cell phone aas a regular home phone :P) and
when I got back I had a couple of lost calls (parents and a friend). When I
returned the calls and told them that I didn't answer because I
The computer may be broken twenty years from now. Letters are less likely to
break of mechanical failure. :P
Haha Sal, what a novel idea ;)
Well-put. Although I cannot yet get rid of Google Hangouts.. because of
girls. Tried experimenting with little to zero cellphone use.. but caused me
unbearable mental states stemming from utter social isolation.
You could always ask them for an address, and send them a letter. That
requires no proprietary software, assuming you write the letter with free
software / by hand. Then you can include an envelope for the response. Easy.
The only issue is that the stamp may have been designed with non-free
I'd be surprised if there weren't lots of options just about everywhere. Its
more likely your just unaware of them. But-yea I recall another post saying
something similar I wrote. I didn't recall who I suggested something like
this to before.
I don't see anything wrong with trying to find
I've thought long and hard about this situation, and my main solutions are:
exchange e-mail addresses or phone numbers. And why not? they are a
traditional and still relevant ways of communication. Given, many people are
probably so deep into social networking that they won't even try to
My wife always says: just because you have a mobile phone doesn't mean it's a
leash for your friends to always reach you 24/7
Also, I don't answer my phone unless I'm in an appropriate area, even if I
have it with me. I assume other people have the same liberty ;-)
Facebook respects your freedom if you use the mbasic mode. Privacy and
tracking is a whole different topic.
Wouldn't gramma store all of the memorabilia on a 3.5-inch floppy disk? Oh,
right, there's no computer that can read a floppy anymore. ;-)
Disregarding privacy and tracking, you can also use Facebook Chat with an
XMPP client like Pidgin.
I use it to keep in contact with people I already know who don't use anything
but Facebook. That helps me keep in contact without constantly reporting my
activities publicly online ;-)
Ok, now, please, don't take this too seriously. It's a thought that came
along the other day, and maybe it would be fun to discuss here. But let's
keep in mind dating girls (or guys for that matter) is not the main target of
free software ;)
So, let's say you are out with a couple of
E-mail? Phone numbers?
I would like it to be that simple :P
These days people have forgotten about those simple things like emails and
phone numbers. They think only in terms of facebook and skype. And if you
don't have facebook you are a weirdo -.- just because they can't go snoop
around on your previous
Nobody you talk to uses a cell phone? I find that hard to believe.
If someone looks down on you because you don't use Facebook, I would
seriously question whether that person is worth talking to.
Normally I explain the reasons why I don't use facebook or skype in a few
sentences; I try to put my words carfully so no facebook user in the group
feels attacked.
If a girl really doesn't want to listen or calls me a weirdo because I don't
do something bad many people do - well, then I'm
Yeah, there is a lot of pressure into using certain services. maybe it's
because everyone uses it or it' not really that bad or even I don't have
anything to hide. But like jacob appelbaum has said we all have something to
hide or else we would walk around naked ;)
I just think it's a bad
Try to talk and meet girls in Diaspora, pump.io, etc :-D
Amaze him/her by asking for a land address and write them a letter.
My wife still has the letters I wrote to her 25 years ago when we first met.
The same cannot be said for any of the more recent texts and emails.
That is a good idea actually ;)
Doubt that I will find anyone near me in there, but its worth a shot.
Now, it would be really laughable if a girl there would go like hey I rarely
come here, add me on facebook xD LOOL
thanks!
Aww, the beautiful 80s and 90s *.*
Sometimes I wish I had lived in those years.
Too bad that if you ask for their address they will most certainly call the
cops to arrest the stalker xD ahaha.
I totally agree with you however that those were the things that held more
meaning.
Too bad that if you ask for their address they will most certainly call the
cops to arrest the stalker xD
lol
true, true
The last I checked there are still lots of places to find like-minded
individuals. I can think of dozens of places within 40 minutes of me and I'm
not exactly in a major city.
Suggestions:
2600 meetings - http://www.2600.com/meetings/
Any kind of tech meetup (like Drupal meetups) or
They need reeducating.
Can you imagine granny getting out an old 486, powering it up and showing the
grandchildren the lovely emails your grandfather sent me when we were
courting?
I suppose they might be printed off, but it's not the same.
So, the answer is, you don't ask for their land
I am fortunate enough not to have to go out to look for romance, but both
personally and professionally, I have to agree that life is made difficult
without using these services.
Having no facebook, skype, linkedin, google things, etc. and having to
explain why is a drawback with
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