NATURALLY Speaking
By Christopher C. Barr
Call me a prophet
Corn syrup was indicted this past weekend as a primary culprit responsible
for the epidemic of obesity and diabetes sweeping the nation over the course of
the last 20 years. This pronouncement did not come from a group of "health
In a message dated 5/3/2004 11:21:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
material. Lest we forget, DavidM has good things to say about Elsman - a man who dispises Miller and treats him like a step-mom.
John
JOHN,
YOU ARE A TROUBLE-CAUSING LOSER THAT DIVORCED AND GO
In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:48:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Some have more opportunities than others but with God we have an equal playing field. He is no respecter of any mans person and intellect does not guarantee understanding. Do you have anything undergird such
New Vine Broadcasting Network -- type it in and search. There is infor on Hubert. Nothing that appears reliable at all. This guy (Kelli, I think is his name) tells us that Billy Graham went to Lindsey for ministry - somethin not found anywhere else. Looks to like Hubert was a street
In regards to remarks on The Mediation of Christ, David says, "Sure! An
invitation from Bill would make all the difference in the
world."
David, please consider yourself invited. I'll be looking forward to reading
your thoughts.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PRO
Yeah, Izzy, I'm still here. No, I'm not mad, not even a little bit, just
frustrated by the tone and demeanor at TT sometimes. I am working on a
proposal, which I will be presenting to you and David (I am making an
assumption here: some of your emails give your address as
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; if you a
Jim Elsman wrote:
> WHEN ARE WE GOING TO RISE UP AND THROW THE
> BONDSWOMEN OUT? I DO SO MOTION THIS FORUM
> HEREBY, I.E. MEN ONLY!!! YOU WILL NOT AGREE
> TO IT, BUT I HAVE PROPHESIED THAT TT WILL NOT
> EXIST IN ONE YEAR IF YOU DO NOT.
LOL. I trust you will not cry foul if I save this e-ma
Judy wrote:
> I know his claim about Billy Graham to be false
How do you know that?
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.I
In a message dated 5/3/2004 4:59:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John S. wrote:
>... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of
>hippies and conducted services at a 2000 member
>church -- which in fact was his service garage.
His service garage? What are you talkin
In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:10:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jim Elsman wrote:
>WHEN ARE WE GOING TO RISE UP AND THROW THE
>BONDSWOMEN OUT? I DO SO MOTION THIS FORUM
>HEREBY, I.E. MEN ONLY!!! YOU WILL NOT AGREE
>TO IT, BUT I HAVE PROPHESIED THAT TT WILL NOT
>EXIS
Elsman writes:I AM A NICE GUY.
THESE REBEL WOMEN DO NOT KNOW HOW SWEET I AM. IT IS NOT MY MISSION TO
SQUELCH WOMEN.
JT: YOU MAY VERY WELL BE A
NICE GUY ELSMAN BUT NICE GUYS CAN BE DECEIVED TOO YOU KNOW AND YOU ARE WRONG
ABOUT THE PLACE GOD HAS GIVEN WOMEN IN THE NT CHURCH. YOU ARE STIL
Judy wrote:
> Hubert Lindsey sounds insane
No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.
John S. wrote:
> Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who claim
> to have converted Bill Graham,
Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy
Graham, if that i
John writes: Actually, If I said
that " women have been gifted intellectually in ways that men have
not," it would be saying exactly the same thing.
Right? It appears that David's agreement with Els is in the context
of "the battle." I tutored a young handicapped girl in Fresn
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Judy wrote: Hubert Lindsey sounds insane
No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.
jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are called
to. Hubert's preaching sounds a little "out there" I found the
following on "The pag
In a message dated 5/3/2004 4:57:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JT: NOT SO. WOMEN ARE SUBJECT TO THEIR OWN HUSBANDS IN THE MARRIAGE AND HUSBANDS ARE TO LOVE THEIR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH BUT EVERY WOMAN IS NOT SUBJECT TO EVERY MAN. YOU ARE IN ERROR.
JUDI,
David, It seems to me that when a man is repeatedly calling a woman a
"whore" on this list it should be two strikes and you're out. I believe
that men should be gentlemen even if they are Christians. I believe that
real men are not threatened by being considered "feminized" by gentlemanly
gallantr
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Judy wrote:I know his claim about Billy Graham to be
false
How do you know that?
jt: Because I remember reading that Billy Graham came
fwd under the preaching of the evangelist Mordecai Ham; later I read on the
internet that Hubert used to travel wi
John, I remember having lunch in an office
situation with a bunch of women who were gossiping terribly about another women
(not present) who was so fat, so immoral, etc. etc. I smiled and said, “Well,
one thing I can say for her is that I’ve never heard her say anything
unkind about any
I'm all anticipation! :-) Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Peter of Canada
Yeah, Izzy, I'm still here. No, I'm not mad, not even a
In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:36:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jt: I suppose I should ask Jim Ellsman - do you know if Hubert ever had a meeting with the Pope? I saw that reported also and have to wonder about it. It seems a bit out of character, but then if he studied u
DAVID,
I WOULD LIKE TO CALL IT "THE MEN'S ROOM", BUT , CONSIDERING THESE BUTCHES, THEY
WILL WANT ENTRY THERE, AS
WELL.
ELSMAN
SO WHY DON'T WE MAKE THE CHURCH INTO ANOTHER
MASONIC LODGE SINCE MEN ARE SO MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT AND KNOW HOW TO SWING THE
V
I bet Elsman’s own wife has never
heard him say anything so endearing. J Izzy
JUDI,
YOU LITTLE
LOVEABLE DING-BAT.
THE LAWYER WHO LOVES TOO MUCH.
In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:54:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JESUS MUST NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT HE WAS ABOUT ALLOWING WOMEN TO LEARN AND GIVING THEM EQUALITY WITH THE MEN.
ELSMAN - YOU NEED YOUR MIND RENEWED, IT MAY BE A GOOD WEAPON FOR COURTROOM BATTLES BUT DOES
NOTHIN
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JT: NOT SO. WOMEN ARE SUBJECT TO
THEIR OWN HUSBANDS IN THE MARRIAGE AND HUSBANDS ARE TO LOVE THEIR WIVES AS
CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH BUT EVERY WOMAN IS NOT SUBJECT TO EVERY MAN. YOU
ARE IN ERROR. JUDI,
YOU LITTLE LOVEABLE DING-BAT. I NEVER SAID "EV
Elsman, I think The Men’s Room is
the perfect spot for you—and I wouldn’t go in there with you for
all the tea in China!
ROFL!!! Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 3:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subjec
David writes:Izzy, I hope you do not misunderstand me, but speech like
this tends to push me over toward Elsman's side of thinking that TruthTalk
perhaps ought to be men only. What I mean is that it seems like you are
asking for the list to be feminized. Let me give you an example using
ch
JESUS MUST
NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT HE WAS ABOUT ALLOWING WOMEN TO LEARN AND GIVING THEM
EQUALITY WITH THE MEN.
ELSMAN - YOU NEED YOUR MIND
RENEWED, IT MAY BE A GOOD WEAPON FOR COURTROOM BATTLES BUT DOESNOTHING TO EDIFY OR BUILD UP
ANYONE IN CHRIST.
In a message dated 5/3/2004 1:42:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jt: Wait a minute John,
Why didn't you stay and rebuke them like a man? You know, confrontation. I'm a woman and I don't stay around gossip
but I've known men who are as bad or worse than the women. Also me
In a message dated 5/3/2004 1:59:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
His service garage? What are you talking about? I think you are mixing
up information from various sources.
Did you know Hubert? Are you reporting some first hand information
here, or gossip that you obta
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:10:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jim Elsman wrote:
>WHEN ARE WE GOING TO RISE UP AND THROW THE
>BONDSWOMEN OUT? I DO SO MOTION THIS FORUM
>HEREBY, I.E. MEN ONLY!!! YOU WILL NOT AGREE
>TO IT, BUT I HAVE PROPHESIED THAT TT WILL NOT
>EXIST
\o/ !HALALU Yah!
\o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of
YahShua !!
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
Sent: 05/02/2004 1:45 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] This is Mrs. Chris
Barr - I call him Tirshatha
I am sure you have
written these words from your own heart, but mus
Chris wrote:
> Daniel Lee's last 5 posts to TT contained
> no profanity or ad hominem.
The last five posts that I received did. Only the very last post might
not have had any, but that is even debatable. At 2:50 AM on May 2 and
2:46 AM, he referred to John as "Diaper John" several times. On th
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:51:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Thanks for your concern,
Bill
Professor -- good to hear from you. But we were so busy protecting the women and children, that, well, you did not miss much.
John
And where could we go to verify this information?
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:52:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 5/3/2004 5:36:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
jt: I suppose I should ask Jim Ellsman - do you know if Hubert ev
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:54:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DAVID,
I WOULD LIKE TO CALL IT "THE MEN'S ROOM", BUT , CONSIDERING THESE BUTCHES, THEY WILL WANT ENTRY THERE, AS WELL.
ELSMAN
I love you holiness/pentecostle types. It is
In a message dated 5/3/2004 3:13:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
YOU HAVE NOT REBUTTED THE OBVIOUS, I.E. IN 2,000 YEARS OF CHRISTIAN HISTORY, THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE WOMAN THEOLOGIAN OF NOTE. GET REAL!!
OR, NAME THE BEST YOU'VE GOT.
ELSMAN
2000 years o
In addition to the site listed below, I am startled at just how little information there is on a man who was honored by Catholics, saved 40,000 (or it is 70,000) Jews, thousands and thousands of hippies - assisted Billy Graham although mention of his work is hard to impossible to find. Someth
In a message dated 5/3/2004 4:54:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am sure you have written these words from your own heart, but must let you know that there are those who say that you recently attempted to divorce or separate from your husband because he was treating you so
jt: I suppose I should ask Jim Ellsman - do you know if Hubert
ever had a meeting with the Pope? I saw that reported also and have to wonder
about it. It seems a bit out of character, but then if he studied under a
Rabbi and was into so much legalism - who knows it may be so.
HUBERT WAS N
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:46:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John, I remember having lunch in an office situation with a bunch of women who were gossiping terribly about another women (not present) who was so fat, so immoral, etc. etc. I smiled and said, âWell, one thin
David Miller: Pagan Wolf, what do you think about Christians who consider
you their
brother? Is this offensive to you, or do you like it, or just consider
it uninformed??
TPW: None of the above. How can I be offended? Aren't we all human? How can
I like it? It's not really much of an issue.
Fr
Jim, "Ding-bat" and "Butches" are a bit demeaning, don't you think? Please
do not offend by name-calling.
Perry the Moderator
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [TruthTalk] CAN WE ELIMINATE WOMEN FROM THIS FORUM
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 1
David Miller wrote:
Terry, thanks for saying you will try to do better. That is a much
better response than calling the other person names or pointing out
their double standard or guilt of doing the same thing. :-)
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
--
In a message dated 5/3/2004 6:25:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jim, "Ding-bat" and "Butches" are a bit demeaning, don't you think? Please
do not offend by name-calling.
Perry the Moderator
Keep up the good work Perry. A thankless job it isn't -- thank you
John
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I also believe
like Elsman doesthat generally speaking, men have been
gifted intellectually in ways that women have not. That is not
popular to say in this culture, but it is hard to refute when looking at the
historical evidence. The only counter to
In a message dated 5/3/2004 3:11:27 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It seems to me that the very instruction of "let the women be silent" isdirectly toward this kind of situation. In other words, when the speechgets rough, don't kick out the women to protect them (men only l
In a message dated 5/3/2004 11:54:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I would say that in some situations, men should put up their
dukes so to speak and deal with one another in authoritative ways,
having the women stay out of the fray. I also believe like Elsman does
that gene
Izzy wrote:
> TPW, Well I sure appreciate that you came to my rescue
> in a way, unlike our Moderator who seems to have no
> limits to the way the women here are being abused and
> the vile language allowed on this site. (Perhaps he
> prefers that the ladies to leave? How long should we
> tol
Lance wrote:
> Everyone on TT continues to demonstrate the POWER
> OF TRADITION to inform thinking and, by extension
> communication. "I just read the Bible under the
> Spirit's guidance then I do/teach it's meaning."
> This, sisters and brothers, is approximately how
> every one of the now te
Lance wrote to Pagan Wolf:
> Amen Brother!
Do you consider a pagan to be your brother in Christ? Is this in the
sense of Bill's idea that all are born in Christ and remain as such
until they reject him? Or was this a slip of the fingers, not really
thinking about who you were addressing?
Pagan
John, Good post. I think we ALL relate to
it more than we would like to admit. J Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 1:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bible
versions - ad hominem ar
I realize that, but sometimes there is no reference at all. I think it would
be good to at least include a sentence to let others know what is being
referred to. But it doesnt happen often, so it's not a big issue. Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oh my goodness, David, I think you just jumped from the frying pan into the
fire! :-) Spoken like a true man who has never "been there, done that". I
am curious; can you back up your assertion with statistics?
I, personally, have never considered myself to be particularly bright (even
though my
In a message dated 5/3/2004 12:40:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Daniel wrote:
>Why not ask Brother Chris, Miller? I am not
>holding my breath expecting you to contact him.
Personally, I have decided to not argue with Daniel's theology since he is not a part of this lis
In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:40:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
David, I agree. I am sure that Chris has NO idea what I (and probably some others on TT) know about him and his ministry (and his marriage for that matter) which I could have used against him many times over t
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:54:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Daniel's viewpoint and mine are somewhat close, but there is an
important distinction. I would allow women like Judy to give commentary
on Scripture whereas he would not. I wonder if he would even allow
wome
Izzy wrote:
> I keep getting these emails lately on TT that do
> not show the email they are responding to. Is
> that a problem with my computer, or are you folks
> forgetting to attach the email you are responding
> to?
The preferred e-mail etiquette here is NOT to attach e-mails, but only
t
David Miller wrote:
> Does Chris or anybody else in the world think
> highly of him? I really wonder about these
> things. Daniel must be getting very lonely.
> In many ways, I pity him.
Daniel wrote:
> Why not ask Brother Chris, Miller? I am not
> holding my breath expecting you to contac
Lance wrote:
> Whether we opine, quote scripture, explicate scripture,
> quote a book, quote each other with following comment/
> critique etc. WE ARE ALL TEACHING.
The word "teaching" has a broad range of meaning, as you seem to
indicate here. That is why we MUST consider context and the type o
In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:57:23 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
YES, MY WIFE DOES WEAR A HEAD-COVERING.
I do too At least today!!! An umbrella. Laura
Lance wrote:
> Why not challenge yourself by outlining all that
> you are able to affirm in MOC?
The most delightful thing in his book was his conveyance of God's
incarnation in Israel through history. I enjoyed seeing his acceptance
of the Messianic movement as being part of end time prophetic
Lance wrote:
> You have my email address so why not send those
> observations along to me privately? Just include
> the notes you've made so far.
I would prefer to discuss it publicly. I was hoping to hear from Bill
to see what direction to go. When I get some time, I might offer some
thoughts.
Chris wrote:
>>> It is the only one since KJV to use only
>>> the same manuscripts as KJV.
David Miller wrote:
>> Actually, Green's literal translation also used the
>> same manuscripts as the KJV. You are right, however,
>> that not many use them anymore.
Chris wrote:
> "It is the only one s
David, I agree. I am sure that Chris has NO idea what I (and
probably some others on TT) know about him and his ministry (and his marriage
for that matter) which I could have used against him many times over the past
several months when he was insulting me and others on TT. (Especially whe
Chris wrote:
>>> It is the only one since KJV to use
>>> only the same manuscripts as KJV.
David Miller wrote:
>> Actually, Green's literal translation also used
>> the same manuscripts as the KJV. You are right,
>> however, that not many use them anymore.
Chris wrote:
> Well, David, if that'
Chris wrote:
> An ad hominem argument is one where the presenter
> is addressed rather than the message.
> Joe: 1 + 1 = 3
> John: Joe is an idiot.
> THAT is ad hominem.
> If John responded with the mathematical theorem that
> exposes the error of Joe's statement and thereby reveals
> Jo
In a message dated 5/3/2004 10:43:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Also, one very important question is, "does your wife wear a head
covering"? If so, please explain to us her practice in this regard.
Does she wear it only in religious meetings, or does she wear it all the
From: "Chris Barr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Dear
Izzy, Laura, and any other Women reading here:
Brother Chris has invited me to prayerfully answer your questions here. I
do not generally pursue internet conversation but Brother Chris felt led to have
me give answer to you. I do not believe in inst
Elsman wrote:
> they ... refuse the instruction of the laws of God,
> i.e. I Corinth. 11 re "head covering".
I was not aware that 1 Corinthians 11 was "the law of God." Can you
explain what you mean by that? Do you take the New Testament as being a
writing of laws for us? That seems to be how
Elsman wrote:
> JUST TO SETTLE THE RECORD & CLARIFY MY
> RELATIONSHIP WITH HOLY HUBERT:
Thanks for sharing about Hubert! That was very interesting. I learned
some details that I did not know about you and Hubert. Thank you for
taking time to share it with all of us.
Peace be with you.
David M
Bill, I completely disagree about allowing
you your “privacy”. What the heck Izzy
I thought of running some ideas past him, but opted for
allowing him his privacy.
John
In a message dated 5/3/2004 6:02:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By the way, where is Bill? Has he gotten mad and left us, or what? I hope
not! Izzy
My impression is that he has moved onhaps watching from the side lines. I thought of running some ideas past him, but opt
In a message dated 5/3/2004 6:00:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good attitude, John. Iâve not looked into Adventists because Iâve had friends in the past warn me against it, and I donât think my husband would be interested, as he loves our non-D church. But Iâve read some
By the way, where is Bill? Has he gotten mad and left us, or what? I hope
not! Izzy
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from th
Good attitude, John. I’ve not
looked into Adventists because I’ve had friends in the past warn me
against it, and I don’t think my husband would be interested, as he loves
our non-D church. But I’ve read some very favorable things about how
healthy they are due to their beliefs in keeping
Dave H, The St. Louis University Women's Club has a book club that I belong
to. I did not participate the month they discussed this book (The Da Vinci
Code) because I didn't even want to have it considered seriously. It's
amazing how many people have bought this book because it is "good writing".
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