The term Father as applied to God that we are referring to is the classical
definition of the Trinity as Father, Son, and Spirit. This is not the
Father you are referring to. I believe you are thinking that God must have
created offspring to be a Father. Jesus Christ and the Spirit were not
In a message dated 1/3/2005 3:04:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The term "father" denotes a function of being a parent over offspring. Are
you going to try to argue that the creation always existed? If the creation
did not always exist, then there was some point in time
John Smithson wrote:
What was your scripture on this conclusion
Judy gave us the passage: Heb. 12:9.
The case is much more than surmise and conjecture. It is an absolute proof
given the accepted premises. If we define the word father to mean someone
who is the originator of something, and
In a message dated 1/3/2005 3:33:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy gave us the passage: Heb. 12:9.
The case is much more than surmise and conjecture. It is an absolute proof
given the accepted premises. If we define the word "father" to mean someone
who is the
Jonathan wrote:
I am continually astounded that those who have
been termed 'liberals' on this forum are the only
ones who hold to orthodox Christianity, that which
the church catholic has decreed for millennia.
The more we discuss the more we see how the
'non-liberals' spurn the faith of
John, can you give us the definition of father? Why is Yahweh called
father? Why does Jesus teach us to address him as, our heavenly father?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:17 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
The term Father as applied to God
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/3/2005 7:25:59 AM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You
feel some compulsion to think that way Jonathan. I do not. The
Godhead is three persons. The second person has always been God just
as certainly as the first and third
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
The term Father as applied to God that we are referring to is the classical
definition of the Trinity as Father, Son, and Spirit. This is not the
Father you are referring to. I believe you are thinking that God must have
created offspring to be a Father. Jesus Christ and
In a message dated 1/3/2005 3:59:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John, can you give us the definition of "father"?
Why is Yahweh called "father"?
Why does Jesus teach us to address him as, "our heavenly father"?
A father is one who births an offspring in
In a message dated 1/3/2005 4:35:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I honestly do not know. I suppose that you could say He became a father when He created angels, and there is some justification for that in scripture. You could also say He became a father when He created Adam
Isn't this an oxymoron since "eternal" means forever
and it would be impossible for God to die?
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:09:12 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 1/3/2005 4:35:46 PM Pacific
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I honestly do not know. I suppose that you
Hi Izzy,
The reason I have not replied to you was because of what you
said at the end of your first request to me on why my belief in the eternal
sonship matters. I will quote the ending:
How has it made you a better person? (I cant
imagine.)
The sarcastic nature of the I cant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/3/2005 4:35:46 PM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I
honestly do not know. I suppose that you could say He became a father
when He created angels, and there is some justification for that in
scripture. You could also say He
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:44:55 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And where in Heb 12:9 does it speak of
angels? The side bar for this verse is "our
spirits."
jt: John are you one of the ones who
claimedwe humans are merely minds with a body,
(orbody and soul only)?
Moses knew God was the
Izzy in blue:
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005
7:33 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Why the
Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
Hi Izzy,
The reason I have not
I honestly do not
know. I suppose that you could say He became a father when He created
angels, and there is some justification for that in scripture. You could
also say He became a father when He created Adam and Eve. The only
certainty I see is that He became the Father of Jesus when His
In a message dated 1/3/2005 5:56:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Isn't this an oxymoron since "eternal" means forever and it would be impossible for God to die?
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:09:12 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated 1/3/2005 4:35:46 PM Pacific
In a message dated 1/3/2005 6:02:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I honestly do not know. I suppose that you could say He became a father when He created angels, and there is some justification for that in scripture. You could also say He became a father when He created
In a message dated 1/3/2005 6:43:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John are you one of the ones who claimed we humans are merely minds with a body,
(or body and soul only)? Guess again, miss judy. Moses knew God was the Father of spirits and so did Aaron
[See Numbers
In a message dated 1/3/2005 7:30:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Id appreciate it if JD or Jonathan or Lance could please write in ONE CONCISE statement what they mean by Eternal Fatherhood or Eternal Son so we could at least decide if we agree once and for all. I still
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Judy,
I
believe that there is a barometer built into Christianity that helps us
to
identify heresy. I believe that that barometer is the Trinity. When
people deny the eternal sonship of Jesus Christ they are denying the
Trinity.
Jonathan wrote:
Starting with sin and moving towards Christ
is never the answer. Starting with Christ and
defining sin in the light of who He is, is the answer.
I think you are hitting on a major difference in which we approach humanity
and his relationship to Christ. I certainly understood
Terry,
The Trinity is the relationship as one of
the Father, Son and Spirit eternally. It is who God is. To deny the eternal
sonship of the Son is to deny the Trinity existing eternally. It means there
is no Father, and no Son prior to the incarnation with no Spirit mediating
between
In a message dated 1/2/2005 8:05:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Their doctrine places repentance after faith,
whereas I believe the Scriptures teach us repentance and then faith
I have no reason to change my mind apart from faith. It is interesting to note just how
In a message dated 1/2/2005 8:05:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Their doctrine places repentance after faith,
whereas I believe the Scriptures teach us repentance and then faith
I have no reason to change my mind apart from faith. It is interesting to note just how
Jonathan wrote:
The Trinity is the relationship as one of the
Father, Son and Spirit eternally. It is who
God is. To deny the eternal sonship of the
Son is to deny the Trinity existing eternally.
I don't think this is true, Jonathan. The Trinity is defined as the union
of three persons in
Hi David,
You are correct in recognizing that I have illustrated a major difference in
our hermeneutic. I begin with Christ, you begin with syntax. I have an
overarching guide to interpretation (it must be consistent with who God is
as He reveals Himself in the Person of Jesus Christ). You
In a message dated 1/2/2005 8:29:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Believing that he existed as God from eternity past, but
became known to us as the Son of God when he was born of the woman, does not
deny the Trinity.
It does if He is the eternal Son of God and that is
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