RE: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Gook: What's your point?? Are you simply just feeding on Mulindwa's misinfomation?? Or you've got an idea you can let out and let us know about it?? Zakoomu R.gook makanga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are right on Mulindwa! Gook "You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."- Malcom X Original Message Follows From: "Mulindwa Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:05:47 -0500 You know a good bunch of postings in this forum are not worth the time to respond, but this one surely deserves a second. You see it is such uncritical thinking and reasoning that Museveni feeds on. For example what makes one think that Uganda Districts are at war between each other? is Bunyoro's problem today Busoga? Is West Nile in confrontation with Lango? You can not put districts on a round table unless they are at log-heads. And Uganda districts are not. (Democratic and Cultural) What does that exactly mean? Is Buganda at war with West Nile for West Nile girls do not kneel down when they are greeting people yet Baganda girls do? So you want to put these two districts at a round ta b le to discuss their differences? Red this one " Political parties should contest in regional politics (democratic) and traditional / cultural posts should be left to be set through traditional customs and norms. The separation of democratic politics from cultural politics should emphasized even if both kinds of politics will at one point or the other get intertwined, They'll have to be separated, written in the law of the land." What exactly does that sentence mean? sounds like "We have allot of unknowns that we know we do not know whether we know them, but when we know what we do not know we will tell you when we know what we do not know" Huh? How can you get an entity in Uganda which runs the political arena and the cultural arena at the same time? Look "Separation of democratic politics from cultural politics should be emphasized even if both kinds of politics will at one point or the other get intertwined" So am I to understand that the intertwining of Buganda c ultura l and political matters have tought us nothing so far, or it is me on dope? And how do you separate regional and national politics by law, "By law" yet at times it will be intertwined? Are we talking about federalism here or feudalism? It is such nonsense that has become Museveni's daily food bank, for on such suggestions he plans a round table to make Districts make a workable setting. It is these same brains that are today jumping with hoofs for Museveni wants to discuss the opening up of party politics. When will you ever learn Ugandans? For the record districts sit on a table to discuss how to use their resources if Federalism is introduced. Uganda's districts have no resources what so ever, everything has been grandly looted to the extent that even Kilembe mines has been closed. The entire north has been shut down for ages. More than half of Buganda's land has been sold to the Boers. What is it that is going to be put on the table to negoti ate with? W hat we need in uganda is leadership, we need a government, we need to start, we need to put our people back in homes. And Zakoomu is a classic example of how much Federalists hate Northern Uganda and Northerners, for there is no way any body with a brain of a pea size, can decide to make Northern Uganda a federal State today. These are people who have been destroyed by their government, it has been a government policy to destroy the North, these people have not slept in homes for 20 years, and the only way North can get on their feet both financially and psychologically is by being up lifted by the rest of the entire nation. it is sad that the federalists want to abandon Northern Uganda to its own. But hey what do you expect from a bunch of people who have a philosophy based on miss information and disinformation, being fade on a society of the Zakoomu's who are un critical thinkers? It sucks trust me. And we might be quite but we are watching, be ware. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message ----- From: Rehema Mukooza To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:07 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Lupa-Lasaga: You've got a nice point here with your question: What is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda? Below are my contributions towards an answer. 1st. getting all districts under "regions" together at the round table and discuss their union and how they are going to make things w
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Vukoni
Lupa-Lasaga: Okay, if the Kabaka traveled to W.Nile twice in the mid 90's to help draw attention to the plight of Sudanese refugees that was seriously good. The issue of the Sudanese refugees in W.Nile is different from the situation in the "internally displaced people'srefugee camps" of Ugandans in Uganda being looted and killed by armed gangs while the UPDF is looking the other way. 1st. the Sudanese left their country because of the southern Sudan war and came to Uganda for safety. 2nd. West Nile is not as aviolent placeas compared toAcholi, Lango, Itesointerms of LRA activities. Go figure that out yourself. 3rd. People in Acholi and Lango are being attacked from within Uganda in camps which they are said to be 'protected' by the UPDF. 4th. Weigh the situation of Sudanese refugees in Ugandaand that of Ugandans in the North Eastern. If West Nile is more of a safe place to visit than let's say Acholi, Lango, I would advise the King for security matters not to dare step his feet in Acholi or Lango and yet I'd advise him to visit a more safer West Nile. Security matters in these things. I know our King is smart, he can see through all these things and decide on what steps to take. I salute the KING for talking P-E-A-CE. Do you have anymore empty criticism?? Zakoomu R. Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zakoomu,What do I gain from making this up? Ask those who know and they will tell you (e.g. the Kabaka's press secretary). The Kabaka traveled to West Nile twice (if my memory serves me right) in the mid-90's to help draw attention to the plight of Sudanese refugees. Newspaper or TV accounts must still exist.vukonips. Please try to at least spell my name correctly. It doesn't reflect very well on your grasp of facts or courtesy.At 07:54 PM 1/24/2004 -0800, you wrote:Lasanga:The King has not (to my knowledge) traveled to the refugee camps in northern Uganda to show solidarity with the residents who were and are being looted and killed by armed groups as our own UPDF looked the other way.My question to you is: If the residents in refugee camps are not safe with the UPDF looking the other way when armed groups loot and killed them, what makes you sure our King will not be looted and killed as our UPDF is looking the other way??Due to security reasons, I don't think the King will travel to the refugee camps! It's sad but true. The King has no Kabakaship Guard Brigade (like Mu7) to beep up security on his visits to the refugee. If you have been following the events, you would have found out by now that the King is given limited security by the UPDF.If it is the same UPDF that is looking the other way when civilians are attacked by armed groups, and it is the same arm 'guarding' the King, I suppose that same UPDF will look the other way as the King will be attacked by armed groups.I personally would advise the King not to dare go to the refugee camps with this same UPDF as his security guards if he wants his life. The King is not a fool, he can see through all this UPDF mess! The King should communicate with civilians in refugee camps and help with deplomatic peace talks to end the war, as He (King) is doing now. I salute him for his goodwill to all Ugandans.There is alot the King can contribute to help end the war and this suffering without physically visiting the unprotected refugee camps in the north. What do you think?? Do you think everything has to be physical in order to make an impact?? Wake up to reality.Zakoomu R. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Lupa-Lasaga: You've got a nice point here with your question: What is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda? Below are my contributions towards an answer. 1st. getting all districts under "regions" together at the round table and discuss their union and how they are going to make things work in their union. 2nd. getting regions (Busoga, Bunyoro, Acholi, Lango, W.Nile, Ankole, Tooro, Kigezi, etc)to form workable settings of their governing administrations (democratic cultural) within and around. 3rd.getting all regions together on the national table to discuss key issues of the federation. I refer you to the www.federo.com website for farther information. 4th. Democratic mult-partism in all regional states should be formed. Political parties should form branches in every region they want political participation in. Thus, DP-Bunyoro branches, CP-Acholi branches, NRM-O Busoga branches, etc... 5th. Political parties should contest in regional politics (democratic) and traditional / cultural posts shouldbe left to be set through traditional customs and norms. The separation of democratic politics fromcultural politics should emphasized even if both kinds of politics will at one point or the other getintertwined, They'll have to be separated, written in the law of the land. 6th. Regional politics should be separated from National politics by the law of the land, even if at one point or the other they'll get intertwined, we'll have to separate them. This is the avoid what some people called Buganda politics affecting National politics. This time around things have to be separated by the law. Continues next time I'm waiting for your contributions. Zakoomu R. Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zakoomu,Now, I do happen to have expressed in various fora the view that I see a lot of merit in federalism. So, really, you're not telling me anything new.The crucial question is, what is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda?vukoniBTW, the bad news for those who are so obsessed with limiting Buganda's role in Ugandan politics, federalism may not be the magic wand they seek. In any case, I don't see how Buganda's demographic and geographic preponderance in national politics will go away under federalism. For the foreseeable future, (whether under a federal or unitary government) the Baganda will remain the single most populous nationality in Uganda. That reality will continue to be reflected in Uganda's political and cultural life.And I'd really really appreciate it if you took the tim e to spell my name correctly.At 07:34 PM 1/24/2004 -0800, you wrote:Lasanga: You wrote below,"It's just that demographically and geographically Buganda looms large in our politics."Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the demographic dominance of Buganda in Uganda politics?? My resolution to this demographic dominance is FEDERALISM to all regions of Uganda. What do you think, Lasanga??Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the geographic dominance of Buganda in Ugandan politics?? FEDERALISM is the solution. With each region holding power to decide its future, geographic dominance's impact will be reduced. Equal federal representation on the talking table will over look geographic dominance.What has caused this demographic and geographic dominance of Buganda in our politics?? Unitarism is the driving force behind this unfairness. Unitarism centralizes most of gov't resources towards its center (Buganda). We should not blame Buganda for Uganda's bloody past, we should put the blame on our gov'ts that have over and over again refused a federal arrangement for Uganda. Federalism will make sure that even if one region (Buganda) is wooed by false leaders like Obote and Museveni, the rest of the federation (Acholi, Lango, Bunyoro, Tooro, Ankole, Busoga, Kigezi, etc...) are not affected to the maximum they were when these false leaders make/made their woo-wooings.Zakoomu R. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Vukoni
Dear sister Zakoomu, Far from criticizing the Kabaka's action regarding the plight of those in the displaced people's camp in the north, I actually applauded it. But I do understand. You're in attack mode, and regardless of what I say, I'm damned. Fortunately, I'm wearing body armor, so I only feel a little pain where the bullet you fired struck!!! .-) vukoni At 03:39 PM 1/25/2004 -0800, you wrote: Lupa-Lasaga: Okay, if the Kabaka traveled to W.Nile twice in the mid 90's to help draw attention to the plight of Sudanese refugees that was seriously good. The issue of the Sudanese refugees in W.Nile is different from the situation in the internally displaced people's refugee camps of Ugandans in Uganda being looted and killed by armed gangs while the UPDF is looking the other way. 1st. the Sudanese left their country because of the southern Sudan war and came to Uganda for safety. 2nd. West Nile is not as a violent place as compared to Acholi, Lango, Iteso interms of LRA activities. Go figure that out yourself. 3rd. People in Acholi and Lango are being attacked from within Uganda in camps which they are said to be 'protected' by the UPDF. 4th. Weigh the situation of Sudanese refugees in Uganda and that of Ugandans in the North Eastern. If West Nile is more of a safe place to visit than let's say Acholi, Lango, I would advise the King for security matters not to dare step his feet in Acholi or Lango and yet I'd advise him to visit a more safer West Nile. Security matters in these things. I know our King is smart, he can see through all these things and decide on what steps to take. I salute the KING for talking P-E-A-CE. Do you have anymore empty criticism?? Zakoomu R. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Zakoomu R., I like a federal Ugandan state, but please do not bore us with what we already know.Your Items 1 to 4 (below) used to exist and were practiced until mad man Lt. Gen, Museveni came to power with his "Fundamental change" bull shit. Your 5th and 6th points are interesting, but again those are details to be ironed out in a fedral arrangement. First, change the constitution back to what it was in the the 1960's when, yes, Uganda was a federal state! yFrom: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:07:37 -0800 (PST) Lupa-Lasaga: You've got a nice point here with your question:What is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda?Below are my contributions towards an answer. 1st. getting all districts under "regions" together at the round table and discuss their union and how they are going to make things work in their union. 2nd. getting regions (Busoga, Bunyoro, Acholi, Lango, W.Nile, Ankole, Tooro, Kigezi, etc) to form workable settings of their governing administrations (democratic cultural) within and around. 3rd. getting all regions together on the national table to discuss key issues of the federation.I refer you to the www.federo.com website for farther information. 4th. Democratic mult-partism in all regional states should be formed.Political parties should form branches in every region they want political participation in.Thus, DP-Bunyoro branches, CP-Acholi branches, NRM-O Busoga branches, etc... 5th.Political parties should contest in regional politics (democratic) and traditional / cultural posts should be left to be set through traditional customs and norms. The separation of democratic politics from cultural politics should emphasized even if both kinds of politics will at one point or the other get intertwined, They'll have to be separated, written in the law of the land. 6th.Regional politics should be separated from National politics by the law of the land, even if at one point or the other they'll get intertwined, we'll have to separate them.This is the avoid what some people called Buganda politics affecting National politics.This time around things have to be separated by the law. Continues next timeI'm waiting for your contributions. Zakoomu R. Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Zakoomu, Now, I do happen to have expressed in various fora the view that I see a lot of merit in federalism. So, really, you're not telling me anything new. The crucial question is, what is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda? vukoni BTW, the bad news for those who are so obsessed with limiting Buganda's role in Ugandan politics, federalism may not be the magic wand they seek. In any case, I don't see how Buganda's demographic and geographic preponderance in national politics will go away under federalism. For the foreseeable future, (whether under a federal or unitary government) the Baganda will remain the single most populous nationality in Uganda. That reality will continue to be reflected in Uganda's political and cultural life. And I'd really really appreciate it if you took the time to spell my name correctly. At 07:34 PM 1/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: Lasanga: You wrote below, "It's just that demographically and geographically Buganda looms large in our politics." Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the demographic dominance of Buganda in Uganda politics?? My resolution to this demographic dominance is FEDERALISM to all regions of Uganda. What do you think, Lasanga?? Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the geographic dominance of Buganda in Ugandan politics?? FEDERALISM is the solution. With each region holding power to decide its future, geographic dominance's impact will be reduced. Equal federal representation on the talking table will over look geographic dominance. What has caused this demographic and geographic dominance of Buganda in our politics?? Unitarism is the driving force behind this unfairness. Unitarism centralizes most of gov't resources towards its center (Buganda). We should not blame Buganda for Uganda's bloody past, we should put the blame on our gov'ts that have over and over again refused a federal arrangement for Uganda. Federalism will make sure that even if one region (Buganda) is wooed by false leaders like Obote and Museveni, the rest of the federation (Acholi, Lango, Bunyoro, Tooro, Ankole, Busoga, Kigezi, etc...) are not affected to the maximum they were when these false leaders make/made their woo-wooings. Zakoomu R. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! Protect your PC -
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Vukoni
Hahahaha, you've got alot of comedy talk! Maybe you can become a cartoon with your body armor while I'm shooting! Aahahah, I'm just joking. So, what was your point?Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear sister Zakoomu,Far from criticizing the Kabaka's action regarding the plight of those in the displaced people's camp in the north, I actually applauded it.But I do understand. You're in attack mode, and regardless of what I say, I'm damned. Fortunately, I'm wearing body armor, so I only feel a little pain where the bullet you fired struck!!! .-)vukoniAt 03:39 PM 1/25/2004 -0800, you wrote:Lupa-Lasaga:Okay, if the Kabaka traveled to W.Nile twice in the mid 90's to help draw attention to the plight of Sudanese refugees that was seriously good. The issue of the Sudanese refugees in W.Nile is different from the situation in the "internally displaced people's refugee camps" of Ugandans in Uganda being looted and killed by armed gangs while the UPDF is looking the other way.1st. the Sudanese left their country because of the southern Sudan war and came to Uganda for safety.2nd. West Nile is not as a violent place as compared to Acholi, Lango, Iteso interms of LRA activities. Go figure that out yourself.3rd. People in Acholi and Lango are being attacked from within Uganda in camps which they are said to be 'protected' by the UPDF.4th. Weigh the situation of Sudanese refugees in Uganda and that of Ugandans in the North Eastern.If West Nile is more of a safe place to visit than let's say Acholi, Lango, I would advise the King for security matters not to dare step his feet in Acholi or Lango and yet I'd advise him to visit a more safer West Nile. Security matters in these things. I know our King is smart, he can see through all these things and decide on what steps to take.I salute the KING for talking P-E-A-CE . Do you have anymore empty criticism??Zakoomu R.---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
RE: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
You are right on Mulindwa! Gook "You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."- Malcom X Original Message Follows From: "Mulindwa Edward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:05:47 -0500 You know a good bunch of postings in this forum are not worth the time to respond, but this one surely deserves a second. You see it is such uncritical thinking and reasoning that Museveni feeds on. For example what makes one think that Uganda Districts are at war between each other? is Bunyoro's problem today Busoga? Is West Nile in confrontation with Lango? You can not put districts on a round table unless they are at log-heads. And Uganda districts are not. (Democratic and Cultural) What does that exactly mean? Is Buganda at war with West Nile for West Nile girls do not kneel down when they are greeting people yet Baganda girls do? So you want to put these two districts at a round ta ble to discuss their differences? Red this one " Political parties should contest in regional politics (democratic) and traditional / cultural posts should be left to be set through traditional customs and norms. The separation of democratic politics from cultural politics should emphasized even if both kinds of politics will at one point or the other get intertwined, They'll have to be separated, written in the law of the land." What exactly does that sentence mean? sounds like "We have allot of unknowns that we know we do not know whether we know them, but when we know what we do not know we will tell you when we know what we do not know" Huh? How can you get an entity in Uganda which runs the political arena and the cultural arena at the same time? Look "Separation of democratic politics from cultural politics should be emphasized even if both kinds of politics will at one point or the other get intertwined" So am I to understand that the intertwining of Buganda c ultural and political matters have tought us nothing so far, or it is me on dope? And how do you separate regional and national politics by law, "By law" yet at times it will be intertwined? Are we talking about federalism here or feudalism? It is such nonsense that has become Museveni's daily food bank, for on such suggestions he plans a round table to make Districts make a workable setting. It is these same brains that are today jumping with hoofs for Museveni wants to discuss the opening up of party politics. When will you ever learn Ugandans? For the record districts sit on a table to discuss how to use their resources if Federalism is introduced. Uganda's districts have no resources what so ever, everything has been grandly looted to the extent that even Kilembe mines has been closed. The entire north has been shut down for ages. More than half of Buganda's land has been sold to the Boers. What is it that is going to be put on the table to negoti ate with? What we need in uganda is leadership, we need a government, we need to start, we need to put our people back in homes. And Zakoomu is a classic example of how much Federalists hate Northern Uganda and Northerners, for there is no way any body with a brain of a pea size, can decide to make Northern Uganda a federal State today. These are people who have been destroyed by their government, it has been a government policy to destroy the North, these people have not slept in homes for 20 years, and the only way North can get on their feet both financially and psychologically is by being up lifted by the rest of the entire nation. it is sad that the federalists want to abandon Northern Uganda to its own. But hey what do you expect from a bunch of people who have a philosophy based on miss information and disinformation, being fade on a society of the Zakoomu's who are un critical thinkers? It sucks trust me. And we might be quite but we are watching, be ware. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message ----- From: Rehema Mukooza To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:07 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Lupa-Lasaga: You've got a nice point here with your question: What is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda? Below are my contributions towards an answer. 1st. getting all districts under "regions" together at the round table and discuss their union and how they are going to make things work in their union. 2nd. getting regions (Busoga, Bunyoro, Acholi, Lango, W.Nile, Ankole, Tooro, Kigezi, etc) to form workable settings of their governing administrations (democratic cultural) within and around
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Vukoni
Duh! At 07:03 PM 1/25/2004 -0800, you wrote: So, what was your point? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
gook, we have been through this revisionist stuff many times before. This is just another attempt to divert us from the issue at hand. But just one simple question: what were you yourself doing in Luweero at the time ? Kasangwawo From: gook makanga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:04:20 + _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ---BeginMessage--- Vukoni, I agree with you here, but yet again you should have been in Luwero when him and Mu7 went about preaching about the new change they would usher and the methods they would use to bring about that change. They, him and M7, hade clearly identified whom their enemies were. Hoes, pangas and runguswhere used to kill off all those perceived enemies. A lot of people including my dear old uncle lost their lives in Luwero, and later in the rest of Buganda simply because they were "Bipingamingi" -read Non Gandas! When they got to Kla, you must have seen how they went about torching any "dark" skinned person they met. In the process i again lost a very dear friend, Mutebi,. His crime? his skin complexion was dark! As they later found out they had actually torched a royal! The method? They tied a tire around his neck and torched it! Chief, it is one of the most painful and inhuman way of dying! To this day i still have night mares! Will it ever end? Shall i ever forget the things that happened to my people in Luwero and in Kla? To this day these people, those who were lucky to survive , have not got their land and other property back! Now, you tell me what the Kabaka has done to compensate these innocent Ugandans right in his kingdom. let him first settle the problem of Luwero before he can go talk to the people in Sudan.In Luwero i know he has some powers. He can order for those properties to be handed back to their rightful owners and probably also apologize for the role he played in their being treated like they were not his subjects! Failure to do this will make me see all his later attempts as nothing but cheap politicking! Rgds Gook "You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."- Malcom X Original Message Follows From: Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:33:25 -0600 I'm not a monarchist but if truth be told, this Kabaka has displayed remarkable statesmanship in expressing solidarity with Ugandans and other Africans within our borders who continue to bear the brunt of the NRM's failed militarist approach to solving every problem. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug ---End Message---
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Lasanga: You wrote below, "It's just that demographically and geographically Buganda looms large in our politics." Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the demographic dominance of Buganda in Uganda politics?? My resolution to this demographic dominance is FEDERALISM to all regions of Uganda. What do you think, Lasanga?? Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the geographic dominance of Buganda in Ugandan politics?? FEDERALISM is the solution. With each region holding power to decide its future, geographic dominance's impact will be reduced. Equal federal representation on the talking table will over look geographic dominance. What has caused this demographic and geographic dominance of Buganda in our politics?? Unitarism is the driving force behind this unfairness. Unitarism centralizes most of gov't resources towards its center (Buganda). We should not blame Buganda for Uganda's bloody past, we should put the blame on our gov'ts that have over and over again refused a federal arrangement for Uganda. Federalism will make sure that even if one region (Buganda) is wooed by false leaders like Obote and Museveni, the rest of the federation (Acholi, Lango, Bunyoro, Tooro, Ankole, Busoga, Kigezi, etc...) are not affected to the maximum they were when these false leaders make/made their woo-wooings. Zakoomu R.Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gook,There are at least two other ways to look at the blood-soaked chapters of our history:1. Both Obote and Museveni wooed the Baganda and the Buganda monarchy to seize power -each time with disastrous consequences for most of us.2. On at least two critical times in our history, the monarchy in Buganda committed royal follies by allying with forces that gave them the donkey's thanks. Even when it became clear each time that they were being suckered.Of course the same can be said of other ethno-political alliances in our dear land. So, I don't see these myopic weaknesses as peculiar to the Buganda monarchy or the Baganda. It's just that demographically and geographically Buganda looms large in our politics. That's why I give the devil (including Obote) his due when recounting our history. v Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Vukoni
Lasanga: The King has not (to my knowledge) traveled to the refugee camps in northern Uganda to show solidarity with the residents who were and are being looted and killed by armed groups as our own UPDF looked the other way. My question to you is: If the residents in refugee camps are not safe with the UPDF looking the other way when armed groups loot and killed them, what makes you sure our King will not be looted and killed as our UPDF is looking the other way?? Due to security reasons, I don't think the King will travel to the refugee camps! It's sad but true. The King has no Kabakaship Guard Brigade (like Mu7) to beep up security on his visits to the refugee. If you have been following the events, you would have found out by now that the King is given limited security by the UPDF. If it is the same UPDF that is looking the other way when civilians are attacked by armed groups, and it is the same arm 'guarding' the King, I suppose that same UPDF will look the other way as the King will be attacked by armed groups. I personally would advise the King not to dare go to the refugee camps with this same UPDF as his security guardsif he wants his life. The King is not a fool, he can see through all this UPDF mess! The King should communicate with civilians in refugee camps and help with deplomatic peace talks to end the war, as He (King) is doing now. I salute him for his goodwill to all Ugandans. There is alot the King can contribute to help end the war and this suffering without physically visiting the unprotected refugee camps in the north. What do you think?? Do you think everything has to be physical in order to make an impact?? Wake up to reality. Zakoomu R. Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zakoomu,If I may add other another instance of the Kabaka's goodwill: He traveled more than once to the refugee camps in northern Uganda to show solidarity with residents who were being looted and killed by armed groups as our own UPDF looked the other way.At 10:11 AM 1/23/2004 -0800, you wrote:Mulindwa:You said: "Today Ssabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved." This is a total lie and you know it. This is not the first time the King has extended his hand into trying to solve the Northern war. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Nagadya
Sister Nagadya: I understand your point that no matter what we do some people will never outgrow their childish misfeelings of us being responsible for their misery. But I'll continue to educate them on several issues about how we are not the causes of their misery. Uganda has never had a Muganda brutal dictator. They should name one. Most of all these dictators who have lead Uganda into bloodshed, political decay, economic chaos, etc for all these years are non-Baganda. The blame should go to its rightful owners; Obote (Lango), Amin (W. Nile), Mu7 (Ankole), Okello (?). I bet people from all these mentioned regions are still blamming Buganda for the miseries Uganda has been through, and sparing their blood thrust sons out of the equation. These people are quite very much not thinking realitically but thinking out of their lie-based emotions. Our King is doing a good job and we salute him. Now, let's find out what the Bunyoro, Busoga, Ankole, Tooro Kings, and other Chiefs have done so far about the northern war. Zakoomu R.Mary Nagadya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sister Rehema,Don't waste your breath and time on these sour-pusses.Not too long ago there was an article in Monitorfollowed by responses and topic was the Baganda andthe Northern war.There have also been a lot of discussion on thesubject on this forum.To a malcontent, no matter what you do, you are alwayssomehow responsible for his or her misery.Our Kabaka is doing a job, and that's all there is toit.--- Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Mulindwa: You said: "Today Ssabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved." This is a total lie and you know it. This is not the first time the King has extended his hand into trying to solve the Northern war. 1). The King's foundation scholarship fund has given scholarsh ips to particularly Northern students from war torn areas to continue with their dream of having an education. 2). The King has talked several times before about the war and the suffering of people. 3). He has stayed in contact with Northern traditional chiefs to discuss the issue. 4). One time he wanted to talk to the redels but the gov't 'advised' him not to try it. Actually they stepped in and stopped him just as they have always done to stop 3rd party people from talking peace. I'll make it clear for you again. Ssabasajja is not a formal political leader. You will not see him on the ballot box. Zakoomu R. Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Zakoomu I do not know what hole you have popped from, the fact of the matter is that if you were sober enough to follow t he discussion which has been very long. Many of us have been complaining of the refusal of Buganda king to make a war from Northern Uganda a part of their concern. We have been wondering why Ssabasajja has decided to keep quite when Ugandans in the North are dying, and when his men are being sent to die from both DRC and Northern Uganda. The infidels in this forum have continuously responded that the Sabasajja can not be involved in these matters for he is a cultural leader not a political leader. Today Sabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved. And I am asking those same infidels as to whether not this Sabasajja is getting involved for he is a political leader? But before they answered me then a an informed and an individual who know no where this discussion came from, decided to rant. That is why I some times log off and just watch. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Rehema Mukooza To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:05 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Mulindwa: The Kabaka is informally political if you didn't know, in the same way Mengo gov't is an informal gov't. Where have you been, Mulindwa?? He is a traditional leader, and I'll tell that all traditional leaders are informal political leaders of the peoples they lead. Mulindwa, you once criticized the King of Ugandan Kings and Mengo for being reluctant towards peace in the Nor th. Now, are you turning on your words?? You criticized Buganda and Baganda for "sleeping/kasita twebaka otulo" while fellow Ugandans are dying and suffering in the North. Are you dillusional or what?? Being informally political especially when the leading King of Ugandan Kings is taking peace is something we should be proud of. All informal political/traditional leaders should help bring peace to our motherland. If the formal political leaders have failed to keep up with their duty, let the informal political/traditional leaders try it out and see what they can accomplish. Our formal political leaders have failed as over and over again, we need to wake up and shift our support towards our i
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Zakoomu, Now, I do happen to have expressed in various fora the view that I see a lot of merit in federalism. So, really, you're not telling me anything new. The crucial question is, what is the best strategy for bringing about federalism in Uganda? vukoni BTW, the bad news for those who are so obsessed with limiting Buganda's role in Ugandan politics, federalism may not be the magic wand they seek. In any case, I don't see how Buganda's demographic and geographic preponderance in national politics will go away under federalism. For the foreseeable future, (whether under a federal or unitary government) the Baganda will remain the single most populous nationality in Uganda. That reality will continue to be reflected in Uganda's political and cultural life. And I'd really really appreciate it if you took the time to spell my name correctly. At 07:34 PM 1/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: Lasanga: You wrote below, It's just that demographically and geographically Buganda looms large in our politics. Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the demographic dominance of Buganda in Uganda politics?? My resolution to this demographic dominance is FEDERALISM to all regions of Uganda. What do you think, Lasanga?? Have you ever thought of how to put a balance to the geographic dominance of Buganda in Ugandan politics?? FEDERALISM is the solution. With each region holding power to decide its future, geographic dominance's impact will be reduced. Equal federal representation on the talking table will over look geographic dominance. What has caused this demographic and geographic dominance of Buganda in our politics?? Unitarism is the driving force behind this unfairness. Unitarism centralizes most of gov't resources towards its center (Buganda). We should not blame Buganda for Uganda's bloody past, we should put the blame on our gov'ts that have over and over again refused a federal arrangement for Uganda. Federalism will make sure that even if one region (Buganda) is wooed by false leaders like Obote and Museveni, the rest of the federation (Acholi, Lango, Bunyoro, Tooro, Ankole, Busoga, Kigezi, etc...) are not affected to the maximum they were when these false leaders make/made their woo-wooings. Zakoomu R. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Vukoni
Zakoomu, What do I gain from making this up? Ask those who know and they will tell you (e.g. the Kabaka's press secretary). The Kabaka traveled to West Nile twice (if my memory serves me right) in the mid-90's to help draw attention to the plight of Sudanese refugees. Newspaper or TV accounts must still exist. vukoni ps. Please try to at least spell my name correctly. It doesn't reflect very well on your grasp of facts or courtesy. At 07:54 PM 1/24/2004 -0800, you wrote: Lasanga: The King has not (to my knowledge) traveled to the refugee camps in northern Uganda to show solidarity with the residents who were and are being looted and killed by armed groups as our own UPDF looked the other way. My question to you is: If the residents in refugee camps are not safe with the UPDF looking the other way when armed groups loot and killed them, what makes you sure our King will not be looted and killed as our UPDF is looking the other way?? Due to security reasons, I don't think the King will travel to the refugee camps! It's sad but true. The King has no Kabakaship Guard Brigade (like Mu7) to beep up security on his visits to the refugee. If you have been following the events, you would have found out by now that the King is given limited security by the UPDF. If it is the same UPDF that is looking the other way when civilians are attacked by armed groups, and it is the same arm 'guarding' the King, I suppose that same UPDF will look the other way as the King will be attacked by armed groups. I personally would advise the King not to dare go to the refugee camps with this same UPDF as his security guards if he wants his life. The King is not a fool, he can see through all this UPDF mess! The King should communicate with civilians in refugee camps and help with deplomatic peace talks to end the war, as He (King) is doing now. I salute him for his goodwill to all Ugandans. There is alot the King can contribute to help end the war and this suffering without physically visiting the unprotected refugee camps in the north. What do you think?? Do you think everything has to be physical in order to make an impact?? Wake up to reality. Zakoomu R. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Mw. Ssemakula, you are spot on ! When the Kabaka keeps quiet, they say he doesn't care. When he says or does something, the same people attack him for having done so. But what is most abominable are the lies they concoct along the way. The mouthpiece of the communications gang is telling us that this is the first time the Kabaka has said anything about the war in the north. Now, that is the mother of all lies. Kasangwawo From: J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:23:06 + _ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ---BeginMessage--- And here I was, thinking that bringing peace to Northern Uganda is more important than "the political status" whoever facilitates the process. I suppose, the end does not justify the means. I wonder, is there another agenda here or is it just the usual plain, garden variety, ntondo? Damned if you do, damned if you don't ... Original Message Follows From: Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:16:08 + (GMT) Why ask this question?.Has there even been a time in the History of the Kingdom,when the Kabaka was not political?. We really need a reality check here because even if Mu7 tells Ugandans that the restored Kingdoms are traditional institutions,he should know that culture per se can be used as a political tools and hence the rantings that the Kabaka is not political is a contradiction. Most of us may think the Kabaka is not political because he does not have authorities to levy taxes on his subjects and on those occupying his properties but that in itself does not mean he is apolitical because he can use his immense influence within the cultural context to cause mayhem for the pretenders to the throne like the NRM ideologues!. Remember how the Quebecors in Canada have adroitly used culture to make big political gains?. So lets' not be lulled into thinking that the Kabaka is not political.He is indeed the epitome of the political aspirations ofmost of his people so do not malign him. Thank you. Kipenji. === Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, Isalute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
I'm not a monarchist but if truth be told, this Kabaka has displayed remarkable statesmanship in expressing solidarity with Ugandans and other Africans within our borders who continue to bear the brunt of the NRM's failed militarist approach to solving every problem. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Jonah, I was wondering where you were becuase since I came back you dissappeared as if you don't like me. How are you? Anyomokolojonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mw. Ssemakula,you are spot on ! When the Kabaka keeps quiet, they say he doesn't care. When he says or does something, the same people attack him for having done so.But what is most abominable are the lies they concoct along the way. The mouthpiece of the communications gang is telling us that this is the first time the Kabaka has said anything about the war in the north. Now, that is the mother of all lies.KasangwawoFrom: "J Ssemakula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA RebelsDate: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:23:06 +_It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: "J Ssemakula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA RebelsDate: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:23:06 + And here I was, thinking that bringing peace to Northern Uganda is more important than "the political status" whoever facilitates the process. I suppose, the end does not justify the means. I wonder, is there another agenda here or is it just the usual plain, garden variety, ntondo? Damned if you do, damned if you don't ... Original Message Follows From: Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:16:08 + (GMT) Why ask this question?.Has there even been a time in the History of the Kingdom,when the Kabaka was not political?. We really need a reality check here because even if Mu7 tells Ugandans that the restored Kingdoms are traditional institutions,he should know that culture per se can be used as a political tools and hence the rantings that the Kabaka is not political is a contradiction. Most of us may think the Kabaka is not political because he does not have authorities to levy taxes on his subjects and on those occupying his properties but that in itself does not mean he is apolitical because he can use his immense influence within the cultural context to cause mayhem for the pretenders to the throne like the NRM ideologues!. Remember how the Quebecors in Canada have adroitly used culture to make big political gains?. So lets' not be lulled into thinking that the Kabaka is not political.He is indeed the epitome of the political aspirations ofmost of his people so do not malign him. Thank you. Kipenji. === Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, Isalute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda,
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Lupa-Lasaga: Being a monarchist is not a bad thing. Monarchism with fundamental democracy is alot more better than the One-party Movement System our country has been lead into chaos with. How come Ugandans have accepted this One-party Movement system and they they dispise our good old fashioned monarchism with fundamental democracy. I think Ugandans are suicidle and very much find it hard to make stable useful decisions that will positively affect our future. The fact that you point out that you are not a monarchist is something to tell. What kind of monarchism are you pointing at?? I'll tell you that during the early years of our nation building, the territory of Uganda was better off with its regional territories under democratic monarchism. Ever since politicians got rid of "monarchism" the political era in Uganda has worsened! Dictator after dictator with their mass murdering of Ugandans. And yet some Ugandans see this un-monarchist leadership as better than the former monarchism we had before. You galla be joking, open your eyes and see Uganda for what it really is. Our traditional leaders are by far more peace-making leaders than the gov't we so much see as "leadership". What kind of leadership can slaughter its own people in the North for years, like our Movement gov't?? This is pure total evil. I would rather live in a monarchist Uganda than a one-pary movement dictatorial Uganda. Zakoomu R.Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not a monarchist but if truth be told, this Kabaka has displayed remarkable statesmanship in expressing solidarity with Ugandans and other Africans within our borders who continue to bear the brunt of the NRM's failed militarist approach to solving every problem. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Ssemakula: I agree with you. I hope the ends (peace) justifies the means (political status), and not the other way around. For some people, I wonder what their motive is, it's the political status that justifies peace. That is sooo sad while people are being slaughtered by the gov't. Even if Uganda was under territorial monarchism with peace, life, and development flourishing, I think it would be better off than the current system (anti-traditional leadership, unrest, death, and undevelopment). Ugandans wake up! Zakoomu R.J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And here I was, thinking that bringing peace to Northern Uganda is more important than "the political status" whoever facilitates the process. I suppose, the end does not justify the means. I wonder, is there another agenda here or is it just the usual plain, garden variety, ntondo? Damned if you do, damned if you don't ... Original Message Follows From: Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:16:08 + (GMT) Why ask this question?.Has there even been a time in the History of the Kingdom,when the Kabaka was not political?. We really need a reality check here because even if Mu7 tells Ugandans that the restored Kingdoms are traditional institutions,he should know that culture per se can be used as a political tools and hence the rantings that the Kabaka is not political is a contradiction. Most of us may think the Kabaka is not political because he does not have authorities to levy taxes on his subjects and on those occupying his properties but that in itself does not mean he is apolitical because he can use his immense influence within the cultural context to cause mayhem for the pretenders to the throne like the NRM ideologues!. Remember how the Quebecors in Canada have adroitly used culture to make big political gains?. So lets' not be lulled into thinking that the Kabaka is not political.He is indeed the epitome of the political aspirations ofmost of his people so do not malign him. Thank you. Kipenji. === Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, Isalute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Vukoni, I agree with you here, but yet again you should have been in Luwero when him and Mu7 went about preaching about the new change they would usher and the methods they would use to bring about that change. They, him and M7, hade clearly identified whom their enemies were. Hoes, pangas and runguswhere used to kill off all those perceived enemies. A lot of people including my dear old uncle lost their lives in Luwero, and later in the rest of Buganda simply because they were "Bipingamingi" -read Non Gandas! When they got to Kla, you must have seen how they went about torching any "dark" skinned person they met. In the process i again lost a very dear friend, Mutebi,. His crime? his skin complexion was dark! As they later found out they had actually torched a royal! The method? They tied a tire around his neck and torched it! Chief, it is one of the most painful and inhuman way of dying! To this day i still have night mares! Will it ever end? Shall i ever forget the things that happened to my people in Luwero and in Kla? To this day these people, those who were lucky to survive , have not got their land and other property back! Now, you tell me what the Kabaka has done to compensate these innocent Ugandans right in his kingdom. let him first settle the problem of Luwero before he can go talk to the people in Sudan.In Luwero i know he has some powers. He can order for those properties to be handed back to their rightful owners and probably also apologize for the role he played in their being treated like they were not his subjects! Failure to do this will make me see all his later attempts as nothing but cheap politicking! Rgds Gook "You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."- Malcom X Original Message Follows From: Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:33:25 -0600 I'm not a monarchist but if truth be told, this Kabaka has displayed remarkable statesmanship in expressing solidarity with Ugandans and other Africans within our borders who continue to bear the brunt of the NRM's failed militarist approach to solving every problem. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Mulindwa: You said: "Today Ssabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved." This is a total lie and you know it. This is not the first time the King has extended his hand into trying to solve the Northern war. 1). The King's foundation scholarship fund has given scholarships to particularly Northern students from war torn areas to continue with their dream of having an education. 2). The King has talked several times before about the war and the suffering of people. 3). He has stayed in contact with Northern traditional chiefsto discuss the issue. 4). One time he wanted to talk to the redels but the gov't 'advised' him not to try it. Actually they stepped in and stopped him just as they have always done to stop 3rd party people from talking peace. I'll make it clear for you again. Ssabasajja is not a formal political leader. You will not see him on the ballot box. Zakoomu R.Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zakoomu I do not know what hole you have popped from, the fact of the matter is that if you were sober enough to follow the discussion which has been very long. Many of us have been complaining of the refusal of Buganda king to make a war from Northern Uganda a part of their concern. We have been wondering why Ssabasajja has decided to keep quite when Ugandans in the North are dying, and when his men are being sent to die from both DRC and Northern Uganda. The infidels in this forum have continuously responded that the Sabasajja can not be involved in these matters for he is a cultural leader not a political leader. Today Sabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved. And I am asking those same infidels as to whether not this Sabasajja is getting involved for he is a political leader? But before they answered me then a an informed and an individual who know no where this discussion came from, decided to rant. That is why I some times log off and just watch. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: Rehema Mukooza To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:05 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Mulindwa: The Kabaka is informally political if you didn't know, in the same way Mengo gov't is an informal gov't. Where have you been, Mulindwa?? He is a traditional leader, and I'll tell that all traditional leaders are informal political leaders of the peoples they lead. Mulindwa, you once criticized the King of Ugandan Kingsand Mengo for being reluctant towards peace in the North. Now, are you turning on your words?? You criticized Buganda and Baganda for "sleeping/kasita twebaka otulo"while fellow Ugandans are dying and suffering in the North. Are you dillusional or what?? Being informally political especially when the leading King of Ugandan Kings is taking peace is something we should be proud of. All informal political/traditional leaders should help bring peace to our motherland. If the formal political leaders have failed to keep up with their duty, let the informalpolitical/traditional leaderstry it out and see what they can accomplish. Our formal political leaders have failed as over and over again, we need to wake up and shift our support towards our informal leaders. I have no trust and faith in formal political leaders and yet I have an undeniable trust and faith in my informal political/traditional leader (Kabaka). Why? The political events in our Uganda can talk for themselves. Zakoomu R.Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels - Makanga
Makanga: I can not believe what you've said until I see some evidence. The story is coming from one source (you alone), how do I know it's true?? By asking you again?? Hmmm, I don't think so, maybe from other sources, I might. How can the Kabaka compensate people's property in the Luweero if he can not levy taxes, and he was not the culprit?? You think he's got a money-tree?? The present gov't that caused all the chaos in Luweero is simply not fulfilling its duty to compensate Luweero people who lost their property, and family members. I think you are putting the recompensation blame on the wrong person. Kabaka is not to pay for what he did not do, even if it is in his Kingdom. And he did not kill neither take Luweero people's land and property. The Kabaka was safely living in London. Luweero people have over and over again gone to gov't to ask for what they believe they deserve because they know who the culprit is. What is the Mov't gov't doing to compensate its citizens in Luweero?? Besides, the Kabaka has no powers to give land, unless if it is own personal land not related to the Kabakaship. The title of the Kabakaship owns its own property unrelated to Kabaka's personal property. That is why the Kabakaship must get all properties that belong to it, unmentioning who the Kabaka is. Kabakaship property is inherited from generation to generation of Kabakas. And personal property of the Kabaka can be distributed as he wants (to his children, friends, or anyone he wishes to). If you are talking about the Kabaka giving away his personal land (compensation) to Luweero sufferers, my question to you is. How many Ugandans have such huge amounts of land and property to compensate to hundreds of people?? Unless Museveni who has masses and masses of land around Uganda. You are being very unrealistic. Let Museveni the man who gained out of the loss of Luweero people fill the recompensation. I don't see anything wrong with the Kabaka talking peace. Unless ofcourse if you prefer seeing the war continuing. Failure for Museveni to recompensate the people of Luweero makes me see him as unfit to lead our country. Zakoomu R.gook makanga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vukoni, I agree with you here, but yet again you should have been in Luwero when him and Mu7 went about preaching about the new change they would usher and the methods they would use to bring about that change. They, him and M7, hade clearly identified whom their enemies were. Hoes, pangas and runguswhere used to kill off all those perceived enemies. A lot of people including my dear old uncle lost their lives in Luwero, and later in the rest of Buganda simply because they were "Bipingamingi" -read Non Gandas! When they got to Kla, you must have seen how they went about torching any "dark" skinned person they met. In the process i again lost a very dear friend, Mutebi,. His crime? his skin complexion was dark! As they later found out they had actually torched a royal! The method? They tied a tire around his neck and torched it! Chief, it is one of the most painful and inhuman way of dying! To this day i still have night mares! Will it ever end? Shall i ever forget the things that happened to my people in Luwero and in Kla? To this day these people, those who were lucky to survive , have not got their land and other property back! Now, you tell me what the Kabaka has done to compensate these innocent Ugandans right in his kingdom. let him first settle the problem of Luwero before he can go talk to the people in Sudan.In Luwero i know he has some powers. He can order for those properties to be handed back to their rightful owners and probably also apologize for the role he played in their being treated like they were not his subjects! Failure to do this will make me see all his later attempts as nothing but cheap politicking! Rgds Original Message Follows From: Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:33:25 -0600 I'm not a monarchist but if truth be told, this Kabaka has displayed remarkable statesmanship in expressing solidarity with Ugandans and other Africans within our borders who continue to bear the brunt of the NRM's failed militarist approach to solving every problem. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
My dear Zakoomu, It wasn't my intention to draw attention away from Kabaka Mutebi's praiseworthy peace efforts. But since you appear so eager to proselytize on behalf of monarchies, let me state my position more clearly. 1. I do not believe that political power should be inherited and I consider our monarchs as living museum pieces and their advocates as errant curators of our culture. 2. But I can live with any system where the powers of politicians and rulers (hereditary or not) are clearly defined and limited in a democratic constitution and/or in practice. 3. Arbitrary and unlimited power is dangerous in any hands. Uganda's own monarchs, until the abolition of kingdoms by the Obote dictatorship in the 60's, indulged in excesses (including the disenfranchisement and murder of those who stood in their way). Simply put, they never got the opportunity that Obote, Amin, and Museveni seized to abuse their hereditary powers. In other words, monarchies in Uganda look good mostly because the post-colonial political class has been an abject failure and for nostalgic reasons that have little to do with any inherent superiority of monarchism over republicanism. 4. Monarchies in Africa, from Morocco in the north to Swaziland in the south, rank high among the despots and squanderers of our people's wealth. There is no reason for me to trust that the story of executive monarchies will be drastically different in Uganda, notwithstanding Kabaka Mutebi's conduct. A Ma'di proverb says it all: Ny'i uzi'di laru tro rii oya mgbe olure nya zaa ni ago cuwi dru ku, -- Which roughly translates as, He who is courteous to you won't necessarily make a good husband for your daughter. vukoni --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Zakoomu, If I may add other another instance of the Kabaka's goodwill: He traveled more than once to the refugee camps in northern Uganda to show solidarity with residents who were being looted and killed by armed groups as our own UPDF looked the other way. At 10:11 AM 1/23/2004 -0800, you wrote: Mulindwa: You said: Today Ssabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved. This is a total lie and you know it. This is not the first time the King has extended his hand into trying to solve the Northern war. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Gook, There are at least two other ways to look at the blood-soaked chapters of our history: 1. Both Obote and Museveni wooed the Baganda and the Buganda monarchy to seize power -each time with disastrous consequences for most of us. 2. On at least two critical times in our history, the monarchy in Buganda committed royal follies by allying with forces that gave them the donkey's thanks. Even when it became clear each time that they were being suckered. Of course the same can be said of other ethno-political alliances in our dear land. So, I don't see these myopic weaknesses as peculiar to the Buganda monarchy or the Baganda. It's just that demographically and geographically Buganda looms large in our politics. That's why I give the devil (including Obote) his due when recounting our history. v --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Sister Rehema, Don't waste your breath and time on these sour-pusses. Not too long ago there was an article in Monitor followed by responses and topic was the Baganda and the Northern war. There have also been a lot of discussion on the subject on this forum. To a malcontent, no matter what you do, you are always somehow responsible for his or her misery. Our Kabaka is doing a job, and that's all there is to it. --- Rehema Mukooza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mulindwa: You said: Today Ssabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved. This is a total lie and you know it. This is not the first time the King has extended his hand into trying to solve the Northern war. 1). The King's foundation scholarship fund has given scholarships to particularly Northern students from war torn areas to continue with their dream of having an education. 2). The King has talked several times before about the war and the suffering of people. 3). He has stayed in contact with Northern traditional chiefs to discuss the issue. 4). One time he wanted to talk to the redels but the gov't 'advised' him not to try it. Actually they stepped in and stopped him just as they have always done to stop 3rd party people from talking peace. I'll make it clear for you again. Ssabasajja is not a formal political leader. You will not see him on the ballot box. Zakoomu R. Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zakoomu I do not know what hole you have popped from, the fact of the matter is that if you were sober enough to follow the discussion which has been very long. Many of us have been complaining of the refusal of Buganda king to make a war from Northern Uganda a part of their concern. We have been wondering why Ssabasajja has decided to keep quite when Ugandans in the North are dying, and when his men are being sent to die from both DRC and Northern Uganda. The infidels in this forum have continuously responded that the Sabasajja can not be involved in these matters for he is a cultural leader not a political leader. Today Sabasajja for the first time has come out and become involved. And I am asking those same infidels as to whether not this Sabasajja is getting involved for he is a political leader? But before they answered me then a an informed and an individual who know no where this discussion came from, decided to rant. That is why I some times log off and just watch. Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Rehema Mukooza To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:05 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Mulindwa: The Kabaka is informally political if you didn't know, in the same way Mengo gov't is an informal gov't. Where have you been, Mulindwa?? He is a traditional leader, and I'll tell that all traditional leaders are informal political leaders of the peoples they lead. Mulindwa, you once criticized the King of Ugandan Kings and Mengo for being reluctant towards peace in the North. Now, are you turning on your words?? You criticized Buganda and Baganda for sleeping/kasita twebaka otulo while fellow Ugandans are dying and suffering in the North. Are you dillusional or what?? Being informally political especially when the leading King of Ugandan Kings is taking peace is something we should be proud of. All informal political/traditional leaders should help bring peace to our motherland. If the formal political leaders have failed to keep up with their duty, let the informal political/traditional leaders try it out and see what they can accomplish. Our formal political leaders have failed as over and over again, we need to wake up and shift our support towards our informal leaders. I have no trust and faith in formal political leaders and yet I have an undeniable trust and faith in my informal political/traditional leader (Kabaka). Why? The political events in our Uganda can talk for themselves. Zakoomu R. Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Hahahahah, you got something to say. Monarchism with democracy is good. Your ideas about monarchies are yours and mine are mine. I see nothing wrong with monarchism with democracy. Republicanism as we know it in Uganda has cost us more lives than monarchism has. Ex. look at the republicanism of the USA has done to Iraq, Afghanistan lives. Ex.2 look at what the republicanism of present Uganda is doing to Northern lives. Compare; let's add the numbers and we shall find out which has taken most Ugandan lives; monarchism or republicanism. "He who is courteous to you won't necessarily make a good husband for your daughter," is very true. No wonder the King has over and over again extended his hand into discussing peace but still some sections won't take his friendship. These sections would rather see themselves dying and killing each other without accepting any help because of the proverb you just gave me. No wonder the northern blood is still flowing!! Why wouldn't it, withfolks attached to themeaning in the Madi proverb?? Thissounds like self-destruction! They are simply telling us that they don't need (Kabaka's) help. Who has patience for this?? People can only handle but so much! This is sad indeed! Zakoomu R.Vukoni Lupa-Lasaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My dear Zakoomu,It wasn't my intention to draw attention away from Kabaka Mutebi's praiseworthy peace efforts. But since you appear so eager to proselytize on behalf of monarchies, let me state my position more clearly.1. I do not believe that political power should be inherited and I consider our monarchs as living museum pieces and their advocates as errant curators of our culture.2. But I can live with any system where the powers of politicians and rulers (hereditary or not) are clearly defined and limited in a democratic constitution and/or in practice.3. Arbitrary and unlimited power is dangerous in any hands. Uganda's own monarchs, until the abolition of kingdoms by the Obote dictatorship in the 60's, indulged in excesses (including the disenfranchisement and murder of those who stood in their way). Simp ly put, they never got the opportunity that Obote, Amin, and Museveni seized to abuse their hereditary powers. In other words, monarchies in Uganda look good mostly because the post-colonial political class has been an abject failure and for nostalgic reasons that have little to do with any inherent superiority of monarchism over republicanism.4. Monarchies in Africa, from Morocco in the north to Swaziland in the south, rank high among the despots and squanderers of our people's wealth. There is no reason for me to trust that the story of executive monarchies will be drastically different in Uganda, notwithstanding Kabaka Mutebi's conduct. A Ma'di proverb says it all: "Ny'i uzi'di laru tro rii oya mgbe olure nya zaa ni ago cuwi dru ku," -- Which roughly translates as, "He who is courteous to you won't necessarily make a good husband for your daughter."vukoni---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Ch ecked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Why ask this question?.Has there even been a time in the History of the Kingdom,when the Kabaka was not political?. We really need a reality check here because even if Mu7 tells Ugandans that the restored Kingdoms are traditional institutions,he should know that culture per se can be used as a political tools and hence the rantings that the Kabaka is not political is a contradiction. Most of us may think the Kabaka is not political because he does not have authorities to levy taxes on his subjects and on those occupying his properties but that in itself does not mean he is apolitical because he can use his immense influence within the cultural context to cause mayhem for the pretenders to the throne like the NRM ideologues!. Remember how the Quebecors in Canada have adroitly used culture to make big political gains?. So lets' not be lulled into thinking that the Kabaka is not political.He is indeed the epitome of the political aspirations of most of his people so do not malign him. Thank you. Kipenji. ===Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision. "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." - Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels - Hitler's propaganda minister - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
And here I was, thinking that bringing peace to Northern Uganda is more important than "the political status" whoever facilitates the process. I suppose, the end does not justify the means. I wonder, is there another agenda here or is it just the usual plain, garden variety, ntondo? Damned if you do, damned if you don't ... Original Message Follows From: Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:16:08 + (GMT) Why ask this question?.Has there even been a time in the History of the Kingdom,when the Kabaka was not political?. We really need a reality check here because even if Mu7 tells Ugandans that the restored Kingdoms are traditional institutions,he should know that culture per se can be used as a political tools and hence the rantings that the Kabaka is not political is a contradiction. Most of us may think the Kabaka is not political because he does not have authorities to levy taxes on his subjects and on those occupying his properties but that in itself does not mean he is apolitical because he can use his immense influence within the cultural context to cause mayhem for the pretenders to the throne like the NRM ideologues!. Remember how the Quebecors in Canada have adroitly used culture to make big political gains?. So lets' not be lulled into thinking that the Kabaka is not political.He is indeed the epitome of the political aspirations ofmost of his people so do not malign him. Thank you. Kipenji. === Mulindwa Edward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, Isalute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision. "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." - Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels - Hitler's propaganda minister - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes - Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. ---
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision. "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." - Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels - Hitler's propaganda minister - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision. "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." - Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels - Hitler's propaganda minister - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Mulindwa: The Kabaka is informally political if you didn't know, in the same way Mengo gov't is an informal gov't. Where have you been, Mulindwa?? He is a traditional leader, and I'll tell that all traditional leaders are informal political leaders of the peoples they lead. Mulindwa, you once criticized the King of Ugandan Kingsand Mengo for being reluctant towards peace in the North. Now, are you turning on your words?? You criticized Buganda and Baganda for "sleeping/kasita twebaka otulo"while fellow Ugandans are dying and suffering in the North. Are you dillusional or what?? Being informally political especially when the leading King of Ugandan Kings is taking peace is something we should be proud of. All informal political/traditional leaders should help bring peace to our motherland. If the formal political leaders have failed to keep up with their duty, let the informalpolitical/traditional leaderstry it out and see what they can accomplish. Our formal political leaders have failed as over and over again, we need to wake up and shift our support towards our informal leaders. I have no trust and faith in formal political leaders and yet I have an undeniable trust and faith in my informal political/traditional leader (Kabaka). Why? The political events in our Uganda can talk for themselves. Zakoomu R.Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the Kabaka political now? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy" Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie" - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to end the misery of our suffering brethren. Ssemakula Original Message Follows From: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels. The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace. Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region. On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency." The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision. "The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." - Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels - Hitler's propaganda minister - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Zakoomu
I do not know what hole you have popped from, the
fact of the matter is that if you were sober enough to follow the discussion
which has been very long. Many of us have been complaining of the refusal of
Buganda king to make a war from Northern Uganda a part of their concern. We have
been wondering why Ssabasajja has decided to keep quite when Ugandans in the
North are dying, and when his men are being sent to die from both DRC and
Northern Uganda. The infidels in this forum have continuously responded that the
Sabasajja can not be involved in these matters for he is a cultural leader not a
political leader.
Today Sabasajja for the first time has come out and
become involved. And I am asking those same infidels as to whether not this
Sabasajja is getting involved for he is a political leader? But before they
answered me then a an informed and an individual who know no where this
discussion came from, decided to rant. That is why I some times log off and just
watch.
Em
The
Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in
anarchy"
Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans
l'anarchie"
- Original Message -
From:
Rehema Mukooza
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:05
AM
Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan
Elders Over LRA Rebels
Mulindwa:
The Kabaka is informally political if you didn't know,
in the same way Mengo gov't is an informal gov't. Where
have you been, Mulindwa?? He is a traditional leader, and I'll tell that
all traditional leaders are informal political leaders of the peoples they
lead.
Mulindwa, you once criticized the King of Ugandan Kingsand Mengo
for being reluctant towards peace in the North. Now, are you turning on
your words?? You criticized Buganda and Baganda for "sleeping/kasita
twebaka otulo"while fellow Ugandans are dying and suffering in the
North.
Are you dillusional or what?? Being informally political especially
when the leading King of Ugandan Kings is taking peace is something we should
be proud of. All informal political/traditional leaders should help
bring peace to our motherland. If the formal political leaders have
failed to keep up with their duty, let the informalpolitical/traditional
leaderstry it out and see what they can accomplish.
Our formal political leaders have failed as over and over again, we need
to wake up and shift our support towards our informal leaders. I have no
trust and faith in formal political leaders and yet I have an undeniable trust
and faith in my informal political/traditional leader (Kabaka).
Why? The political events in our Uganda can talk for themselves.
Zakoomu R.Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Is the Kabaka political now?
Em
The
Mulindwas Communication Group"With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in
anarchy"
Groupe de communication Mulindwas "avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est
dans l'anarchie"
- Original Message -
From:
J
Ssemakula
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:57
PM
Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet
Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
Likewise, I salute the Kabaka for trying to search for peace to
end the misery of our suffering brethren.
Ssemakula
Original Message Follows
From: Rehema Mukooza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA
Rebels
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:41:40 -0800 (PST)
I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand
to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this
issue in the North.The war will not stop itself as the
government is wishing for.I believe that all traditional
leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but
our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and
understanding among our traditional leaders.Why? It's the work
of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA
Rebels
New Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004
Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine Maseruka
Kampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional
leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern
Uganda insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels.
The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the
in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland,
Ambassador Joseph Buc
Re: ugnet_: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA Rebels
I am pleased to see our King Ronald Mutebi extending his hand to try with other traditional leaders to get some ways of resolving this issue in the North. The war will not stop itself as the government is wishing for. I believe that all traditional leaders have always wanted to work together towards a stable Uganda but our own gov't is working tirelessly to break this corrabollation and understanding among our traditional leaders. Why?It's the work of evilness our gov't has always as usual worked on.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kabaka to Meet Sudan Elders Over LRA RebelsNew Vision (Kampala)January 17, 2004 Posted to the web January 19, 2004 Josephine MaserukaKampala Kabaka Ronald Mutebi has accepted to meet traditional leaders from southern Sudan to discuss ways of ending the17-year northern Ugand a insurgency by the Joseph Kony rebels.The Kabaka made the commitment on Thursday when he received the in-charge of conflict issues in the confederation of Switzerland, Ambassador Joseph Bucher The meeting was held at Kabaka's Banda palace.Bucher met the Kabaka to discuss the role of traditional leaders in conflict resolution.He said his government would in the next two months organise a conference on ending armed conflicts for traditional leaders in the region.On Tuesday, the head of the European Union delegation in Uganda, Sigurd Illing, asked the Government to involve a third party in the peace talks to end the northern insurgency."The Lord's Resistance Army doesn't seem to have confidence in the Government. Somebody outside the Government should come in to build confidence. If other methods have not succeeded the Government must look for a way out," Illing told The New Vision."The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." - Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels - Hitler's propaganda minister Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
