Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

Unfortunately the same applies to the majority of consumers, who realistically don't care how their internet works as long as they can access Facebook/Candy Crush/. A v6 only end user ISP can already access anything behind cloudflare, facebook, google, youtube, netflix but not twitter. I wonde

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

DNS64/NAT64? Ou experience is limited to server applications, but these rarely initiate outbound conections (since the clients almost never have routable public IPv4 addresses anyway) and almost everything is https so this works really well. 3 problems with DNS64: -Wider DNSSEC adoption has

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On 25/05/2020 20:02, Paul Mansfield wrote: Looking back at Y2K, would all that effort have been put in to kill off old services and tidy up all the cr*p if there hadn't been a fixed deadline? As to the Jan 19 2038 problem, how many of us hope to be retired by then, or will we be dragged out of re

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 8:02 AM Per Bilse wrote: > > Daniel Karrenberg (founder/CTO RIPE NCC) has for decades said "I sell IP > address space". The price has historically been low, but it has always been > a finite resource, and that goes for IPv6 address space too (when the RIPE > NCC opened

Re: [uknof] Reminder: UKNOF respect policy

And we are living in extraordinary times, when going the extra mile beyond basic professional respect and courtesy counts for a lot. Taking a bit of a meta step back from on-topic: I've seen a few articles along the following lines recently, looking into the research psychology of long-term isola

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

Steve Deering's Hourglass presentation is still a classic. Whether you use v4 or v6. That's a nice recollection of him and 1997. The thing is by 2000 we had to run with IPv6 transition plan because there was zero chance of getting a v6 that was v4 wire compatible through the IETF. That plan de

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

Paul, There is some resources on the UK v6 Council website regarding v6 transition tech. https://www.ipv6.org.uk/2018/10/26/ipv6-transition-workshop-sep-2018/ The v6 business case for EE using 464xlat can be paraphrased as: We need NAT, with 464xlat for every 100G of ISP traffic I need only 30G o

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On Tue May 26, 2020 at 03:42:40PM +0100, Paul Thornton wrote: > I don't think there is an easy solution to any of this There may be tweeks that could help it along. One would be regulation in some manner, eg it becomes part of the regulations a biz may be subject to, or a requirement if they rece

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

We had a mailman blockage last week which got fixed on Friday, confirming all resolved now. Keith On 5/23/20 10:03 AM, Neil J. McRae wrote: > Listmaster we appear to have IPV6 lag > > Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=uknofmailman.vs.mythic-beasts.com) > by uknofmailman.vs.mythic-beast

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

Some very valid points Paul, thanks for that. I'm probably being a little guilty of focusing on the verticals that I mostly work in with regard to the competitive element so yes I agree a moot point at this stage - I have no interest in the residential market, and with the way we deliver services

Re: [uknof] UK Colo w/ 4G

Hi Nuno, We at BitBahn run a ex MOD colo-datacentre north of Bedford. Multiple Providers, Flexible options. 4G is no problem. Kind Regards Lee From: uknof on behalf of Chris Wilkie Sent: 23 May 2020 19:20:52 To: Nuno Vieira; UKNOF Mailing List Subject: Re

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

Daniel Karrenberg (founder/CTO RIPE NCC) has for decades said "I sell IP address space".  The price has historically been low, but it has always been a finite resource, and that goes for IPv6 address space too (when the RIPE NCC opened up for IPv6 address space, it took half an hour to receive

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On 26/05/2020 14:39, Paul Bone wrote: ISP A, for example, started up 2-3 years ago and received their /22 from RIPE but now, through growth they need more to service new customers. They now have to pay a lot of money (in relative terms) to obtain more IPv4 addresses. To pay for these IP addr

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

> Or go to a broker and buy a /24 or whatever from a network that can > make do with fewer addresses. >The good news at the moment is that the RIPE waiting list is quite short: This is still very short sighted and not sustainable for business growth. On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 15:06, Rob Evans wrot

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:55, Leo Vegoda wrote: > Or go to a broker and buy a /24 or whatever from a network that can > make do with fewer addresses. we're coming back to full circle to the suggestion where businesses should list IPv4 as a taxable asset, or, like DNS, should have to pay the regis

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

ISP B is just starting out and has to pay RIPE fees and get on a waiting list for a /24. All the while being unable to provide IPv4 services. Or go to a broker and buy a /24 or whatever from a network that can make do with fewer addresses. The good news at the moment is that the RIPE waiti

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:41 AM Paul Bone wrote: [...] > ISP B is just starting out and has to pay RIPE fees and get on a waiting list > for a /24. All the while being unable to provide IPv4 services. Or go to a broker and buy a /24 or whatever from a network that can make do with fewer addres

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

I completely agree that the end user will generally have very little or no knowledge of how their connectivity is done underneath - as long as Whatsapp and Facebook work, then most are happy! But I do think the case for hanging onto IPv4 is potentially very damaging to the ISP industry, and I will

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

I think it's a case of the notion of connectivity being changed faster than many other things.  How connectivity is achieved is ultimately not important to most people, and which addressing scheme is used is a detail hardly anybody even knows about. When I first got involved, I didn't have IP c

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 09:52, Daniel Ankers wrote: > The thing about Y2K and 2038 is that they are absolutely fixed dates. No > amount of arguing or pleading would move them. On the other hand, if a flag > day for IPv4 shutoff was chosen it would be arbitrary and could, if needed, > be moved.

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On 26 May 2020, at 12:14, Nick Hilliard wrote: ipv4 will fade when it becomes more expensive and troublesome than ipv6. If we attempt to short-cut this process and kill ipv4 with policy and artificial deadlines, it will will fail just like it failed with the ISO / OSI debacle all those years

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

Per Bilse wrote on 26/05/2020 12:03: Money talks, it's that simple. Until the current state of affairs becomes less profitable (one way or another), the current state will prevail. this ipv4 will fade when it becomes more expensive and troublesome than ipv6. If we attempt to short-cut

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

I'm certainly not opposed to making technical progress.  I once arranged a full day's workshop hosted by Steve Deering to evangelize, but I have come to realize that it was 20+ years too early.  (Amusing anecdote: it wasn't really on Deering's radar to do these things, but he had trouble gettin

[uknof] virtualUKNOF May 2020 Presentation Videos now published

Hi all Just a quick note - the recordings of the presentations at virtualUKNOF May 2020 are now available online. These are available at: Each video is also linked to the corresponding agenda item at: O

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 01:12, Paul Mansfield wrote: > So is it actually feasible to announce *any* date when IPv6 will be > the only connectivity offered to the end user? The thing is that > without target dates and deadlines, things will drag on indefinitely. > I'll admit I wanted to deliberat

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

This is where managed service providers can make a difference. My current day job is for a business ISP who also offers a lot of MSP services. IPv6 only services should be up and running for our guest and managed services by the summer depending on current restrictions being lifted (have equipmen

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

On 25/05/2020 20:02, Paul Mansfield wrote: So is it actually feasible to announce *any* date when IPv6 will be the only connectivity offered to the end user? No. Firstly, I'm a big IPv6 advocate, however... Secondly - with my business ISP hat on, businesses are only very, very rarely asking