... Other parts are
actually really cool, like management of services throughout their
whole lifetime, relevant log messages automatically shown for
systemctl status,
I am personally convinced that journalctl and its binary logs are one of
the big systemd mistakes. And that grep/awk/sed/...
On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 09:30:35AM +0200, Jon Ingason wrote:
Den 2015-05-06 08:55, fra...@hanzlici.cz skrev:
... Other parts are
actually really cool, like management of services throughout their
whole lifetime, relevant log messages automatically shown for
systemctl status,
I am
On Wed, 06 May 2015 09:30:35 +0200
Jon Ingason wrote:
You can still use grep/awk/sed/... :-)
Not if the binary files get corrupted. Most of the time,
you can't even boot when that happens :-(
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Den 2015-05-06 08:55, fra...@hanzlici.cz skrev:
... Other parts are
actually really cool, like management of services throughout their
whole lifetime, relevant log messages automatically shown for
systemctl status,
I am personally convinced that journalctl and its binary logs are one of
On Tue, 2015-05-05 at 16:07 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
gkrellm isn't necessarily counting background services. The real
number of background services can be found out using systemctl
--type=service. In my system I see 67. In any case, I wouldn't
worry about number of processes unless you
On 5 May 2015 at 19:57, Antonio Olivares wingat...@inbox.com wrote:
Well, I'd count the systemd and docker don't work together well
bit with some degree of skepticism. But, on the larger point:
Fedora doesn't strive to be bleeding edge. We strive to be the first to
offer the newest and best
Hi
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 2:24 AM, Tim wrote:
Or a security concern... Some people install everything under the sun,
and you really don't want a telnet server running.
Unlike say Debian, Fedora does not default to running services just
because a package is installed. There are very few
My approach to this issue has been to learn to live with systemd, and
hope that the reasons for its existence will ultimately be of global
benefit. It's the same frame of mind one has when paying taxes ---
they're unavoidable, painful for the individual, and are supposed to
be beneficial for
SysV init scripts are here for ages
They were large, inconsistent, and burdensome to maintain. The people
who maintained them decided that there was a better option.
If you are willing to maintain them, then you can do the work to provide
an alternate init system.
If you're not doing
Hi
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
Now there is a new alternative to systemd
see RancherOS
I am actually surprised and puzzled by this! I thought Fedora was
bleeding edge* and was the pioneer of new technologies* but now someone
else is leading the init*
On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 09:43:28PM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
journald automatically scales its usage to its idea of available memory
That's an explanation that's somewhat less troubling.
I read the man page for journald.conf and was not enlightened.
Which values am I looking at? I see
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 05:24:23AM -0800, Antonio Olivares wrote:
see RancherOS
http://rancher.com/rancher-os/
``Eliminates need for complex init systems
RancherOS eliminates the need for complex init systems like systemd.
Systemd and Docker don’t work well together as they both attempt to
Hi
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
One question *may not be systemd related*, how come fedora after startup
has 300+ services running in the background?
How are you counting services?
Rahul
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-Original Message-
From: methe...@gmail.com
Sent: Tue, 5 May 2015 15:44:28 -0400
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: F21: why Fedora still has not alternative init?
Hi
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
One question *may not be systemd related*, how
-Original Message-
From: methe...@gmail.com
Sent: Tue, 5 May 2015 16:07:35 -0400
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: F21: why Fedora still has not alternative init?
Hi
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
I run gkrellm and it lists 340 procs. Before
Hi
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
I run gkrellm and it lists 340 procs. Before it used to be a smaller
number
gkrellm isn't necessarily counting background services. The real number of
background services can be found out using systemctl --type=service. In my
Hi
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
There are 121 services here when I pass --all. How many of these are
unneeded?
FYI, I would suggest posting a new thread or renaming the subject to match
your queries
You can't count all since that is the list of all possible
Now there is a new alternative to systemd
see RancherOS
I am actually surprised and puzzled by this! I thought Fedora was bleeding
edge* and was the pioneer of new technologies* but now someone else is leading
the init* technologies.
I don't see how. It is not a new technology.
Well, I'd count the systemd and docker don't work together well
bit with some degree of skepticism. But, on the larger point:
Fedora doesn't strive to be bleeding edge. We strive to be the first to
offer the newest and best of _functional_ open source software. And
that's a hard balance to
Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
SysV init scripts are here for ages
Gordon Messmer:
They were large, inconsistent, and burdensome to maintain. The people
who maintained them decided that there was a better option.
Just watching this on the sidelines, but /etc/init.d/httpd on my old
Fedora
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 10:45:09AM -0800, Antonio Olivares wrote:
I did not know about this. This is new stuff. We actually do not
know of many things that are happening.
If you haven't, check out Fedora Magazine, at
http://fedoramagazine.org/. We try to talk about all sorts of new
On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 10:45:09AM -0800, Antonio Olivares wrote:
with regards to services, I still miss the old # chkconfig --list #
chkconfig service off; etc.
Part of the problem is that this was already showing its age. Many
modern services are started on demand, rather than on boot, and
On Sun, 2015-05-03 at 14:04 +0200, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc) init?
Wasn't upstart the (ironically named) new thing that was utterly
despised in Ubuntu, many years ago?
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Linux 3.19.5-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Mon Apr 20
On Sun, 2015-05-03 at 09:41 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
See Tip 3 in:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/game/systemd.html
While I can see that attitude in closed source software, as yet another
vendor lock-in, I'm more inclined to go with a point I saw raised,
elsewhere, about ADD
ma., 04.05.2015 kl. 01.48 +0200, skrev Frantisek Hanzlik:
Hmm, I guess You want advice me, to bought some strictly limited
(maybe
commercial) OS - and then shut up and be satisfied with I have. But
this
fortunately is not Linux case...
That was not what I wrote at all. I gave reasons why
On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 01:48:57AM +0200, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
Hmm, I guess You want advice me, to bought some strictly limited (maybe
commercial) OS - and then shut up and be satisfied with I have. But this
fortunately is not Linux case...
Fundamentally, if you want something to be
On Sun, May 03, 2015 at 02:57:57PM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
I tend to think that's a better question. 2.5M of memory is
trivial, but I have systems where the RSS of systemd-journald is
30M+ The very high variability of the memory size for that process
makes me worry about memory leaks.
Allegedly, on or about 03 May 2015, Marko Vojinovic sent:
Oooh, I see, writing buggy and ill-documented code is (ultimately)
better for the market survival of the software company!
Isn't that how Microsoft made their millions?
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On 05/03/2015 04:13 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
Gordon Messmer wrote:
SysV init scripts are here for ages
They were large, inconsistent, and burdensome to maintain. The people
who maintained them decided that there was a better option.
If you are willing to maintain them, then you can do
On 05/04/2015 06:20 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
journald automatically scales its usage to its idea of available memory
That's an explanation that's somewhat less troubling.
I read the man page for journald.conf and was not enlightened. Which
values am I looking at? I see references to
I find the attitude of many of the senior fedora people quite
disappointing. There is no freedom, there is ZERO choice on this issue.
It's a dictatorship.
My observations are that the systemd people are not the best people for the
job. In fact, they are probably at the complete other end of the
Forget it, Dan. It's Chinatown.
RBM
On Tue, 2015-05-05 at 08:07 +1000, Dan Irwin wrote:
I find the attitude of many of the senior fedora people quite
disappointing. There is no freedom, there is ZERO choice on this
issue. It's a dictatorship.
My observations are that the systemd people
birger wrote:
First of all, supporting multiple init systems is not something a distro
wants to do.
It would involve forcing package maintainers to support them when getting
enough package maintainers is a problem already.
The alternative is to create a respin with another init system and
On May 3, 2015 6:04 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
- (problem for me create init script for another network daemon
instance running on different port etc.
TIA, Franta Hanzlik
--
I cut out the parts that didn't seem relevant to accomplishing what it
seems like you are
On 05/03/2015 05:04 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc) init?
...
When systemd presents itself as compatible with sysvinit, then IMO
having alternative init in Fedora should not be too big problem.
Systemd is backward-compatible with SysV
Hi
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
Rahul, thanks to Your recommendation. But for wider angle, this isn't
as so significant. I want a stable system on which I can rely on -
and it now block systemd piece. And as I see for last 4 years of its
evolving, it is still
HI
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
Rahul, I'm not sure what you're talking about, sorry for my narrow
english knowledge.
Despite of that, although I know that systemd fans talk how is its
documentations exhaustive (best/ideal/...), it isn't truth
I disagree with
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
HI
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
Rahul, I'm not sure what you're talking about, sorry for my narrow
english knowledge.
Despite of that, although I know that systemd fans talk how is its
documentations exhaustive
On Mon, May 04, 2015 at 01:48:57 +0200,
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
Hmm, I guess You want advice me, to bought some strictly limited (maybe
commercial) OS - and then shut up and be satisfied with I have. But this
fortunately is not Linux case...
However it is very unlikely
First of all, supporting multiple init systems is not something a distro wants
to do.
It would involve forcing package maintainers to support them when getting
enough package maintainers is a problem already.
The alternative is to create a respin with another init system and its own
builds of
Gordon Messmer wrote:
On 05/03/2015 05:04 AM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc) init?
...
When systemd presents itself as compatible with sysvinit, then IMO
having alternative init in Fedora should not be too big problem.
Systemd is
Pete Travis wrote:
I cut out the parts that didn't seem relevant to accomplishing what it
seems like you are trying to do.
Can you elaborate on what service, specifically, you want to listen on a
different port, how you attempted to change it, and what happened when you
did so?
Hi, it
I just tried upgrade my F19/i686 PC to F21/i686, but I'm frustrated:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc) init?
In F14- times all things worked for me flawlessly, was not problem
for me create init script for new (Fedora unsupported) services, was
not problem for me
On Sun, 03 May 2015 14:04:37 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:
- (smaller harm) Why hasn't systemd option to run without journald?
See Tip 3 in:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/game/systemd.html
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Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2015 14:04:37 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc) init?
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
If you want Fedora to have an alternative init, roll up your sleeves
On Sun, 3 May 2015 15:45:36 +0100
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
Not the slightest possibility that is true. I have a more
likely reason for the universal adoption of systemd:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/game/selection.html
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On Sun, 03 May 2015 14:04:37 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc) init?
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
If you want Fedora to have an alternative init, roll up your sleeves
and dig in, make it happen!
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2015 17:33:53 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2015 14:04:37 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc)
init?
Umm, because
On Sun, 3 May 2015 10:57:55 -0400
Tom Horsley horsley1...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 3 May 2015 15:45:36 +0100
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
Not the slightest possibility that is true. I have a more
likely reason for the universal adoption of
Hi
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Sun, 3 May 2015 15:45:36 +0100
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
Not the slightest possibility that is true. I have a more
likely reason for the universal adoption of systemd:
Tom Horsley wrote:
On Sun, 3 May 2015 15:45:36 +0100
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
Not the slightest possibility that is true. I have a more
likely reason for the universal adoption of systemd:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Sun, 3 May 2015 15:45:36 +0100
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
Umm, because everyone is happy with systemd? :-)
Not the slightest possibility that is true. I have a more
likely reason for the
On Sun, 03 May 2015 17:33:53 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2015 14:04:37 +0200
Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote:
- (bigger harm) Why hasn't Fedora alternative (upstart/openrc)
init?
Umm, because everyone is happy
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