On 26.07.09 22:09, r...@ausics.net wrote:
If you are sending out from your dynamic home connection, you are going to
have bigger problems, most of the big ISP's and many many many others
block at MTA level for your type of connections, either get a static IP
*and* a real PTR entry, or use
The following is the spam headers of a message received:
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on s1.snowweb.info
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.6 required=4.7 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,
RELAYCOUNTRY_FR autolearn=no version=3.2.4
Hi,
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to work :) I have
installed the Perl module and enabled the plugin but it never appears to hit :(
Best Regards,
--
SplatNIX IT Services :: Innovation through collaboration
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Hi,
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to work :) I
have installed the Perl module and enabled the plugin but it never appears to
hit :(
The plugin itself only adds metadata to the message. You need to
- Mariusz Kruk k...@epsilon.eu.org wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Hi,
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to work
:) I have installed the Perl module and enabled the plugin but it
never appears to hit :(
The plugin itself
The following is the spam headers of a message received:
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01)
on s1.snowweb.info X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.6 required=4.7
tests=HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY, RELAYCOUNTRY_FR
autolearn=no version=3.2.4
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:29 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
- Mariusz Kruk k...@epsilon.eu.org wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Hi,
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to work
:) I have installed the Perl module and enabled
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
What makes you think anyone can answer that? The message you posted to
pastebin for us to test and review was nonexistent.
What is 'pastebin' and how do I use it?
--
View this message in context:
- Mariusz Kruk k...@epsilon.eu.org wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:29 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
- Mariusz Kruk k...@epsilon.eu.org wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Hi,
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to
snowweb wrote:
What makes you think anyone can answer that? The message you posted to
pastebin for us to test and review was nonexistent.
What is 'pastebin' and how do I use it?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pastebin
--
Mike Cardwell - IT Consultant and LAMP developer
Cardwell IT Ltd. (UK Reg'd
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to work
:) I have installed the Perl module and enabled the plugin but it
never appears to hit :(
- Mariusz Kruk k...@epsilon.eu.org wrote:
The plugin itself only
- Matus UHLAR - fantomas uh...@fantomas.sk wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to
work
:) I have installed the Perl module and enabled the plugin but
it
never appears to hit :(
-
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:49 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
You say that you installed the Perl module - you mean the
RelayCountry
plugin or the IP::Country::Fast module? (needed by the RC module)
IP::Country::Fast as defined in the requirements.
Does `spamassassin --lint --debug' say
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has more than one or two users now and I personally think that
it should
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit
hacked of with this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get
to the bottom of an SA issue and this list/forum thing is
giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has more than one or two users now and I
personally think that it
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 04:07 -0700, snowweb wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
If you have difficulty with an email
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit
hacked of with this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get
to the bottom of an SA issue and this list/forum thing is
giving me a bigger headache than SA!
What kind of a forum do you see?
I use this as an email list, straight from my email
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit
hacked of with this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get
to the bottom of an SA issue and this list/forum thing is
giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has more than one or two users now and I
Neil Schwartzman さんは書きました:
This is a tough row to ho, and I've not gone down this road in a while but
cunillingus is misspelt, potentially leading to the lack of reaction. By
your rules.
What's wrong with whore? Why is it ho now?
How do you ho a row anyways?
Mixed metaphors, no
- snowweb pe...@snowweb.co.uk wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with
this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and
this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has more than one or two
On Jul 28, 2009, at 5:07 AM, snowweb wrote:
I know it's free and all that, but even so, if this is the only form
of
support they provide, I'm thinking that I'll just start an alternative
support forum, using standard, full featured forum software (like
SMF).
Good luck with that. HTML/WWW
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 12:29 +0100, Mike Cardwell wrote:
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
Snoweb wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit
hacked of with this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get
to the bottom of an SA issue and this list/forum thing is
giving me a bigger
snowweb wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has more than one or two users now and I personally think
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
What kind of a forum do you see?
I use this as an email list, straight from my email application. I don't
use Nabble or Google Groups (whatever those might be..).
Quite convenient. Just subscribe and enjoy.
I'm trying to view these threads online, it's
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:29:53PM +0100, Mike Cardwell wrote:
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit
hacked of with this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get
to the bottom of an SA issue and this list/forum thing is
giving me a bigger headache than
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:29:26 +0100 (BST)
--[ UxBoD ]-- ux...@splatnix.net wrote:
- Mariusz Kruk k...@epsilon.eu.org wrote:
The plugin itself only adds metadata to the message. You need to
configure SA to use this metadata.
http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/RelayCountryPlugin
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
snowweb pe...@snowweb.co.uk wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with
this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA
issue and this list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than
SA!
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 12:54 +0100, RW wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with
this 1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA
issue and this list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than
SA!
[...]
And if you think email is
Henrik K wrote:
Mailing lists are much better. I'm signed up for a couple of dozen
mailing lists and they pretty much all work exactly the same. I don't
want to learn a couple of dozen different types of web based forum
software.
When I send a message to a mailing list, it gets pushed out
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:28:39 -0700
jd onymo...@garlic.com wrote:
Neil Schwartzman さんは書きました:
This is a tough row to ho, and I've not gone down this road in a
while but cunillingus is misspelt, potentially leading to the lack
of reaction. By your rules.
What's wrong with whore? Why is
--[ UxBoD ]--:
- Matus UHLAR - fantomas uh...@fantomas.sk wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it to
work
:) I have installed the Perl module and enabled the plugin but
it never appears to
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 04:50 -0700, snowweb wrote:
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
What kind of a forum do you see?
I use this as an email list, straight from my email application. I don't
use Nabble or Google Groups (whatever those might be..).
Quite convenient. Just subscribe and enjoy.
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 04:50 -0700, snowweb wrote:
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
What kind of a forum do you see?
I use this as an email list, straight from my email application. I don't
use Nabble or Google Groups (whatever those might be..).
Quite convenient. Just subscribe and
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, snowweb wrote:
I'm trying to view these threads online, it's obvious that this is
more orientated to mailing list users, buy the two minutes effort
that they spent building the online 'forum' type interface. I notice
that when you compare the install base of SpamAssassin
- Stefan ste...@localside.net wrote:
--[ UxBoD ]--:
- Matus UHLAR - fantomas uh...@fantomas.sk wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 11:20 +0100, --[ UxBoD ]-- wrote:
Would somebody please let me know what is required to get it
to
work
:) I have installed the Perl module
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Any-one-interested-in-using-a-proper-forum--tp24697144p24697144.html
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
He's clearly using Nabble, and thinks that's the primary interface for
the list ...
So, Peter, if
John Rudd wrote:
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Any-one-interested-in-using-a-proper-forum--tp24697144p24697144.html
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
SNIP
Any help/suggestions on better RSS feeds for this list would be appreciated
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 06:16 -0700, John Rudd wrote:
Though ... it'd be nice if there was a direct RSS feed for the users
list. Hopefully Nabble isn't my only choice for an RSS feed :-}
(esp. since it posts 1 RSS message per email message, and only appears
to do periodic RSS updates, not more
Dave Walker wrote:
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Any-one-interested-in-using-a-proper-forum--tp24697144p24697144.html
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
SNIP
Any help/suggestions on better RSS feeds for this list would be appreciated
Le 28/07/2009 15:31, Mike Cardwell a écrit :
For those using Thunderbird, I have an addon installed named Reply to
mailing list which adds a button Reply list inbetween Reply and
Reply All which has been very useful.
For that matter, for those using Thunderbird 3.0b3, this feature is
built in
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:29, McDonald,
Dandan.mcdon...@austinenergy.com wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 06:16 -0700, John Rudd wrote:
Though ... it'd be nice if there was a direct RSS feed for the users
list. Hopefully Nabble isn't my only choice for an RSS feed :-}
(esp. since it posts 1 RSS
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 06:29, McDonald,
Dandan.mcdon...@austinenergy.com wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 06:16 -0700, John Rudd wrote:
Though ... it'd be nice if there was a direct RSS feed for the users
list. Hopefully Nabble isn't my only choice for an RSS feed :-}
(esp. since it posts 1 RSS
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:16:38 -0700
John Rudd jr...@ucsc.edu wrote:
Personally, when I'm so lightly involved in a message stream that I
don't want to be subscribed to the entire list, I prefer to use the
RSS interface to a forum (or, an RSS feed into a forum). Especially
if the RSS feed only
One does already exist though it isn't just Spamassassin.
http://www.freespamfilter.org/
I'm with snowweb here; mailing list support seems very outdated IMO.
I could understand if you saved every email from the start of the
mailing list as an archive but I would say many of us are new to the
OK! Thanks guys for all your inputs, regardless off which side of the
discussion you're leaning towards. I read and considered all your pro's and
con's carefully. I'm not trying to pry anyone away from your list (and I'm
sure I won't). I'm just trying to reach out to those who don't want to be a
On 28.07.09 09:19, Curtis LaMasters wrote:
One does already exist though it isn't just Spamassassin.
http://www.freespamfilter.org/
I'm with snowweb here; mailing list support seems very outdated IMO.
No, it is not. It's still perfectly usable.
I could understand if you saved every email
2009/7/28 Matus UHLAR - fantomas uh...@fantomas.sk:
On 28.07.09 09:19, Curtis LaMasters wrote:
One does already exist though it isn't just Spamassassin.
http://www.freespamfilter.org/
I'm with snowweb here; mailing list support seems very outdated IMO.
No, it is not. It's still perfectly
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 07:31 -0700, snowweb wrote:
spamassassin-forum
One way to get that included in web filter block lists.
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc.
Then I noted;
Administrative Contact:
Snow, Peter pe...@snowweb.co.uk
20 Neville Gardens
Emsworth,
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, snowweb wrote:
Jari Fredriksson wrote:
What kind of a forum do you see?
I use this as an email list, straight from my email application. I don't
use Nabble or Google Groups (whatever those might be..).
Quite convenient. Just subscribe and enjoy.
I wouldn't have
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 07:09, RWrwmailli...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:16:38 -0700
John Rudd jr...@ucsc.edu wrote:
Personally, when I'm so lightly involved in a message stream that I
don't want to be subscribed to the entire list, I prefer to use the
RSS interface to a
On 28.07.09 09:19, Curtis LaMasters wrote:
I could understand if you saved every email from the start of the
mailing list as an archive but I would say many of us are new to the
list and need support. Therefore we have to rely on search engines to
deliver the content we need. I can't
2009/7/28 rich...@buzzhost.co.uk rich...@buzzhost.co.uk:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 07:31 -0700, snowweb wrote:
spamassassin-forum
One way to get that included in web filter block lists.
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc.
Then I noted;
Administrative Contact:
Snow, Peter
I have now registered http://www.spamassassin-forum.com
spamassassin-forum.com and I will make sure that the first sticky thread
on the forum to be, contains a link to your list, so that our users are free
to choose. I'm not doing this to compete but to complement. I hope you
understand.
Hi,
I just started using the SOUGHT rules for the first time. They seem to
be triggering on emails now, but the default score for hits against the
rules seems to be 3.0 and 4.0. That seems quite high to me. Are these
rules considered to have an extremely low false positive impact?
--
Mike
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 04:45:31PM +0100, Mike Cardwell wrote:
Hi,
I just started using the SOUGHT rules for the first time. They seem to
be triggering on emails now, but the default score for hits against the
rules seems to be 3.0 and 4.0. That seems quite high to me. Are these
rules
Let me see if I follow you correctly there . . . you are administrator of an
email server, but you do not like to read and write email?
Also, I am not a lawyer, but I think I read something somewhere a while ago
that there is some intellectual property rights ownership associated with
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Finally a personal point: PLEASE don't implement smilies/emoticons as
part of the forum. The WINE mailing list often contains messages from
the linked forum that end like this:
I find the bit in square brackets, which is an e-mail representation of
Mike Cardwell wrote:
Hi,
I just started using the SOUGHT rules for the first time. They seem to
be triggering on emails now, but the default score for hits against the
rules seems to be 3.0 and 4.0. That seems quite high to me. Are these
rules considered to have an extremely low false
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 09:01 -0700, John Hardin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Finally a personal point: PLEASE don't implement smilies/emoticons as
part of the forum. The WINE mailing list often contains messages from
the linked forum that end like this:
I find
rich...@buzzhost.co.uk wrote:
On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 07:31 -0700, snowweb wrote:
spamassassin-forum
One way to get that included in web filter block lists.
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc.
Then I noted;
Administrative Contact:
Snow, Peter
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Dave Walker wrote:
The only criticism i have with the SA list is that the Reply-To header
isn't set, meaning most mail clients will reply directly to the person -
rather than the list. Perhaps I should add some procmail foo, but ho hum.
Oh! (smack forehead)
Yeah, thanks!
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Charles Gregory wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Dave Walker wrote:
The only criticism i have with the SA list is that the Reply-To header
isn't set, meaning most mail clients will reply directly to the person -
rather than the list. Perhaps I should add some procmail foo,
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, John Hardin wrote:
Yeah, thanks! I'm always forgetting to fix the To line in my replies!
Procmail/Formail will do nicely!
Post your snippet when it's working, plz. Thanks.
:0fw
* ^(To|Cc):.*(use...@spamassassin|spamassassin.users)
| /usr/bin/formail -IReply-To:
At 10:27 28-07-2009, Charles Gregory wrote:
:0fw
* ^(To|Cc):.*(use...@spamassassin|spamassassin.users)
| /usr/bin/formail -IReply-To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Match on the List-Id: header instead of the To: or Cc:.
Regards,
-sm
On Jul 28, 2009, at 6:31 AM, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
I have in the past looked for stuff that bridges between forums and
mailing lists (or news groups) but it doesn't seem to exist :(
Mailman has a news-gateway module. No idea how/if it works.
--
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow don't be
On Jul 28, 2009, at 7:25 AM, Dave Walker wrote:
John Rudd wrote:
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Any-one-interested-in-using-a-proper-forum--tp24697144p24697144.html
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com
.
SNIP
Any help/suggestions on better
On Jul 28, 2009, at 9:01 AM, Lesley Binks wrote:
I use a google mail account.
That threads messages well
Actually, gmail threads messages very poorly. Threading is a lot more
than 'put all the messages with one topic into a time-ordered list'.
That said, some thread support is much better
On Jul 28, 2009, at 9:20 AM, John Rudd wrote:
Besides, usenet/nntp is getting to be a vanishing backwater of the net
these days ... and the only _decent_ nntp reader was nn, which never
really made its way to the GUI era, much less the web era. In fact,
if you know much about nn, you can
LuKreme wrote:
I have in the past looked for stuff that bridges between forums and
mailing lists (or news groups) but it doesn't seem to exist :(
Mailman has a news-gateway module. No idea how/if it works.
I have used it myself. It works very well. Does exactly what it says on
the tin,
On Jul 27, 2009, at 7:51 AM, rich...@buzzhost.co.uk wrote:
http://pastebin.com/m2cbc0965
Content analysis details: (7.0 points, 5.0 required)
pts rule name description
--
--
0.0 HTML_MESSAGE
LuKreme wrote:
On Jul 28, 2009, at 9:20 AM, John Rudd wrote:
Besides, usenet/nntp is getting to be a vanishing backwater of the net
these days ... and the only _decent_ nntp reader was nn, which never
really made its way to the GUI era, much less the web era. In fact,
if you know much about
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 04:07, snowwebpe...@snowweb.co.uk wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has
At 01:23 PM 7/28/2009, you wrote:
I've subscribed to the email list. This is, for my purposes, and IMHO,
much superior to any forum.
Why? Because I am subscribed to somewhere over 20 technical and
security lists (I stopped counting long ago - it could be more than 50
by now), and they all come
2009/7/28 LuKreme krem...@kreme.com:
On Jul 28, 2009, at 9:01 AM, Lesley Binks wrote:
I use a google mail account.
That threads messages well
Actually, gmail threads messages very poorly. Threading is a lot more than
'put all the messages with one topic into a time-ordered list'.
That
I haven't read all the posts here yet, but I'll give you my experience
with boards. I've been using message boards since the dial up days in
the 80's, and it should be noted I don't speak for SA or its
developers..
The advantage of a mailing list is that the messages are delivered to
your inbox
Steven W. Orr a écrit :
On 07/26/09 20:01, quoth RW:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:07:12 -0400
Michael W. Cocke cocke.mich...@gmail.com wrote:
There doesn't seem to be a web interface to subscribe/unscribe from
this list. The email address
users-unsubscr...@spamassassin.apache.org complains
snowweb a écrit :
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has more than one or two users now and I personally
Mike Cardwell a écrit :
Henrik K wrote:
Good for you. I've signed up for many mailing lists AND forums. There is
nothing inherently better or worse in either of them,
No that's wrong, they're quite different and both have advantages and
disadvantages.
so, it's YES, not NO. Henrik said
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:07 AM, snowwebpe...@snowweb.co.uk wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
Spamassassin has
At 03:17 PM 7/28/2009, you wrote:
Funny that a request for forums would come from nabble... If nabble
users are any indication of what a forum would be like, I think it's
pretty obvious that posting quality would be crap.
Agreed 100%. I've told Nabble they have no permission to archve my
On Tue, July 28, 2009 13:07, snowweb wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
if email/sa gives you so much problems
On Tue, July 28, 2009 13:54, RW wrote:
What exactly do you want that a mailing list can't provide? Avatars,
pretty colours, banner adverts? Most forum software doesn't even
support decent threading.
smf does
And if you think email is obsolete, what are you doing here in the
first place?
**head-note: I know youve not mentioned it to me, but i'll remove your
address only once more, if you got a bitch about any further replies that
will be CC'd to you, bitch to apache org for not having reply-to set.
I'm sick of deleting them :)
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:01:43 +1000 (EST)
Res r...@ausics.net wrote:
If he sends mail with gmail.com address, he should use gmail's SMTP
servers no matter which ISP he's connecting through.
Why? Thats a dangerous recommendation, the number of times googles
mail servers get periodically
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, RW wrote:
Why? Thats a dangerous recommendation, the number of times googles
mail servers get periodically blocked is funny.
I've been using gmail for about six months, and it's not happened to
me. OTOH gmail publishes SPF records, so it would be unwise to use ISP
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 09:15:05AM +1200, Spiro Harvey wrote:
You'll see giant, colourful, often flashing banners in sigs, and sometimes
animated avatars if the forum software allows it.
It's not like the administrator has anything to do with it. A more
technical forum most likely would have
Am 2009-07-28 04:07:23, schrieb snowweb:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting a bit hacked of with this
1980's style forum. I'm trying to get to the bottom of an SA issue and this
list/forum thing is giving me a bigger headache than SA!
It is NOT a forum but a Mailinglist which is
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