Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-03 Thread Igor Vaynberg
no worries, i wasnt holding my breath. its just that when i make sweeping statements i tend to have something to back them up that other people can see... -igor On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brill Pappin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You will wait a long time for an example generated from the API

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-03 Thread Mike Comb
Well, in our case it would almost never be: MyComponentMyModel mycom = new MyComponentMyModel(); We don't have many of our own models, we use CompoundPropertyModel pretty much exclusively (wrapping DAOs or javabeans). So the verbosity doesn't benefit us much. Also, the vast majority of

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-03 Thread Eelco Hillenius
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Mike Comb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, in our case it would almost never be: MyComponentMyModel mycom = new MyComponentMyModel(); We don't have many of our own models, we use CompoundPropertyModel pretty much exclusively (wrapping DAOs or javabeans). So the

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-03 Thread Igor Vaynberg
i think we should have qualified this rfi with a requirement that responders use 1.4 on a non-trivial project...these things only become apparent from real-world day-to-day usage. anything else is pretty much speculation. -igor On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Stephan Koch
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [ ] Whatever

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
Didnt you encounter the big thread (at least 100 messages) where we discussed/voted going to 1.4? (and cool down dev on 1.3) On 6/1/08, Ayodeji Aladejebi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: scan this user forum, you will realize that there is no high demand for generics in wicket from users. I am yet to

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Scott Swank
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. [X2] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Thijs
1) Generifying* Wicket [ X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread wicket user
1) Generifying* Wicket [X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Wouter de Vaal
1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. I had a production quality project with the old 2.0 branch

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Antoine van Wel
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. This is the only solution that makes sense, the other options are

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [x]

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. Verbose VS Clarity, Clarity wins hands down. 2) How strongly

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread GuĂ°mundur Bjarni
I agree with Antoine. GuĂ°mundur Bjarni Antoine van Wel wrote: 1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket.

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Wouter Huijnink
1) Generifying* Wicket [X ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. 2) How strongly do you

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread richardwilko
[ x ] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. [ x ] Whatever choice ultimately made,

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Falcor
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. Component generification

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
why are you contradicting yourself? To be honest I don't see the advantage of generic components, all I want is to not have to do casting when I'm using models, .getModelObject() should return the type that I put in, in a list view, if I give it a list of strings I dont want to cast the listItem

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread mozvip
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Should be avoided, definitly. All this generics stuff is ruining my wicket experience. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [X] I might rethink upgrading if my choice doesn't win. -- View this message in context:

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread mozvip
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Should be avoided, definitly. All this generics stuff is ruining my wicket experience. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [X] I might rethink upgrading if my choice doesn't win. -- View this message in context:

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread richardwilko
ok maybe i misread this : 'Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking.' but those 2 sentences

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Stefan Lindner
1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [x] I

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Goes to show you that people have a tendency to reject things that they do not understand rather than put in the effort :o) -Original Message- From: richardwilko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:21 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:21 AM, richardwilko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ok maybe i misread this : 'Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
Ok you example doesnt work.. You will need to cast there Then IModel only only helps describing the constructor. After that you loose the generics or you have to ofcourse keep the models and dont work anymore directly with the components So if we only do IModel and not component then this will

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
yes thats why i am against Referendums (politically) :) On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Hoover, William [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Goes to show you that people have a tendency to reject things that they do not understand rather than put in the effort :o) -Original Message- From:

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
I think its not quite that simple. Certainly both sets of components should use generics (silly to have a partial solution) but how its done is vital so that it doesn't become a huge mess. I'm one of the adopters of the M1 release and I've found it quite difficult to keep things straight

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
I'd really like to know how it's ruining my wicket experience? Can you please elaborate? I agree that the M1 release of 1.4 was less than optimum, but not having generics is annoying to people who have gotten used to using them. - Brill Pappin -Original Message- From: mozvip

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
Clearly :) However I think the wicket developers have to be careful here as doing wrong will make a big mess :) - Brill -Original Message- From: Hoover, William [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:27 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: RE: users, please give

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. I think before we even think of (partially) reverting generics we have to discuss what's wrong

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
+1 -Original Message- From: Brill Pappin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:49 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket I don't know, I think the discussion is going *toward*

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
+1 I would like to see what the major issues are as to why people are rejecting model/component generics. None that I have seen so far are that convincing- especially the complaints of verbosity. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
Why don't we use the Wiki page to list our *specific* gotchas we encounter and try to come up with a solution for them. My guess is that we can do so. On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Hoover, William [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 I would like to see what the major issues are as to why people are

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Martin Funk
Hi Elco, hi Users, first of all thanks a lot for trying generics in wicket in the first case. I haven't really cared about em so far, too much. So thanks a lot for the learning experience I'm going through right now. [x] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Matej Knopp
I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. I think before we even think of (partially) reverting generics we have to discuss what's wrong (except the verbosity of course, but that's not something we can really do

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
I don't know, I think the discussion is going *toward* generics. Frankly I can't even see why its an issue at all, the language has evolved and uses them... Why would Wicket not also use them its inline with the current state of the language? There is no reason that people who can't get their

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread John Krasnay
On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 01:44:59PM -0700, Eelco Hillenius wrote: 1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
I see your point... a referendum will only be as good as the current state of the product that is being evaluated, and the expertise of those doing the evaluation. It seems as though in this case that some of those doing the evaluation have limited knowledge of what benefits generics has to offer

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Martin Funk
Hi Elco, hi Users, first of all thanks a lot for trying generics in wicket in the first case. I haven't really cared about em so far, too much. So thanks a lot for the learning experience I'm going through right now. [x] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi, I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. @matej_k: ugh - you should count again... if I counted right, most of the responses yet prefer 'Component' /not/ being touched by generics. +1, I agree. I

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Jan Kriesten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: @jwcarman: There is an issue with generics on components which is leading into a big mess - and as far as I can see, many objections are especially on that topic! It might not be Wicket's fault, though, it might be a

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Ahhh... there's a good starting point for the gotchas... I agree. It is not a big issue to use Void when needed. I doubt anyone would be using something like Class? extends Page? extends IModelT unless they themselves are attempting to extend a generic component that they want to extend its

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Sounds like a good idea... Are you going to create it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Carman Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:06 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Hi, But IMHO putting generics on Component is a bad design, since it per se touches all of Wicket's Components without urgent need. I *really* would like to see a clarification of this statement. In Wicket the component and model are very tightly coupled. What is a *good design*

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Matej Knopp
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Jan Kriesten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. @matej_k: ugh - you should count again... if I counted right, most of the responses yet

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
I'm adding a Gotchas section now. On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Hoover, William [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a good idea... Are you going to create it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Carman Sent: Monday, June 02,

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi Matej, Question is, how many of those users actually use generified wicket on day-to-day basis. well, I did, and it really doesn't looked nice (and it doesn't work as it should in the end, but that's another story). The main point is (repeatedly) ignored by the people who are 'pro'

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Scott Swank
Agreed. I don't see a problem with having to type LinkVoid or PageVoid instead of Link/Page. That's simply the way that generics are implemented in Java. Are there places in the API where an end user would have to type something like Class? extends Page? extends IModelT? That way madness lies,

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Good question... I would add to that and say: how many of those users actually use generified wicket on day-to-day basis? how many of those users actually implement generics on day-to-day basis (not just using them- like ListMyClass)? -Original Message- From: Matej Knopp [mailto:[EMAIL

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi Sebastiaan, I *really* would like to see a clarification of this statement. In Wicket the component and model are very tightly coupled. that's part of the problem, agreed. What is a *good design* alternative, where only IModel is generified? getModelObject() returns Object? getModel

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
Can you elaborate? What (anti)pattern(s) make you think that generics in the components are bad design? Besides the effort involved for the wicket developers, as a user I was leaning the opposite way... But maybe I missed something (not unusual). - Brill Pappin -Original Message- From:

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
If you use more than one type of model for a given component I would hardly say that it is only a fraction of the time. Do you use only one type of model on all your components? :o) The use of Void is not an obscure workaround. Why do you think they have it? I think it's intent is very clear if

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
James Carman wrote: I'm adding a Gotchas section now. Your pallete gotcha seems more like a JIRA to me. :-) It's not really about generics in general, but about a specific choice in 1 component (which really seems incorrect to me, i.e., PECS). One of the gotcha's I think is the

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
A raw type is a parameterized type in which the type parameters are not filled in, i.e., new HashMap() (instead of new HashMapString, Integer()). Just try to return one of your old (non-generified) HomePage.class classes (i.e., HomePage extends WebPage instead of HomePage extends WebPageVoid)

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
Yes, the trick here is to not muddy up Wicket for the newcomers. Wicket needs to be easy to learn and understand in order for it to be adopted by the masses! On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Martijn Dashorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question is, how many of those users are core committers. Not

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi Sebastian, What about getModel()? If componennt is not generified I'm really wondering if the there is any benefit to generics at all... (I do really think it will spawn lots of questions on the list as well). what's the problem with getModel? If you specialize on a certain Component,

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
Why can't this be done the way the java API does it, and allow people to use it or not as they want? Wicket is pretty clean in terms of the API, and there are interfaces for most things... So what's the problem with adding the generics to the interfaces? AFAIK this would allow them to be ignored

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
Hi William, If you use more than one type of model for a given component I would hardly say that it is only a fraction of the time. Do you use only one type of model on all your components? :o) read again - I said 70% of my components don't have a Model... The use of Void is not an obscure

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Brill Pappin wrote: Why can't this be done the way the java API does it, and allow people to use it or not as they want? Wicket is pretty clean in terms of the API, and there are interfaces for most things... So what's the problem with adding the generics to the interfaces? AFAIK this would

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
I'm likely missing something here, but why would you want to return something other than a *Page object? Wouldn't that cause some issues with the application? Maybe I don't understand what you mean by raw type. - Brill Pappin -Original Message- From: Sebastiaan van Erk [mailto:[EMAIL

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
Lets not forget the stats we're all aware of (or should be) that 80% of resources in software development are in maintenance... If I'm looking at my ROI, then my developers can type a few extra words in order to reduce that resource load. And lets face it; it *all* comes down to maintenance (and

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Sebastiaan van Erk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Carman wrote: I'm adding a Gotchas section now. Your pallete gotcha seems more like a JIRA to me. :-) It's not really about generics in general, but about a specific choice in 1 component (which really seems

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
I read it, but I think most people will be using models more frequently than 30% of the time. Personally, I use them 99% of the time. -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:54 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users,

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Brill Pappin
+1 Even if its one of the built in composite models, you still kind of need them for most things you do. - Brill -Original Message- From: Hoover, William [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:59 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: RE: users, please give us your

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Charlie Dobbie
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Alastair Maw
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Martin Funk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are quite some methods that don't return the component, but its class. Maybe most prominently 'getHomePage()' in Application. This used to have the signature: public abstract Class getHomePage(); And a popular

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
Yes, property model (and compound friends) don't mix well with generics. With generics a type safe alternative is wanted (and a very good start is Matej and Johan's type-safe model implementation). Regards, Sebastiaan Jan Kriesten wrote: hi al, The second is almost certainly worth doing.

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi william, Wouldn't that infer that the component has to have generics, or am I missing something here? you miss something... getModel/getModelObject would have to be non-final and overriden by the specialized component (return types are covariant, so you can override object with

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Enlighten me with an example -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:23 PM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket hi william, Wouldn't that infer

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Matej Knopp
You really have to use it to appreciate the benefits. Quick glance will just be scary :) -Matej On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question is, how many of those users actually use generified wicket on day-to-day basis. Common, a quick glance and

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Then we are on the same page with one thing... some level in the component hierarchy would have to be generic. Your original example specified T getModel() - you must have meant T getModelObject() ;o) -Original Message- From: Jan Kriesten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02,

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Eelco Hillenius
IMHO storing a model in a Component is more a convenience than a fundamental part of component-ness. This may be part of the reason that genericizing Component is so contentious. I agree. Eelco - To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi william, Enlighten me with an example just like that: Component { public object getModelObject(){ ... } } FormComponentT extends Component { public T getModelObject() { ... } } regards, --- jan. - To unsubscribe,

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread James Carman
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Sebastiaan van Erk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A raw type is a parameterized type in which the type parameters are not filled in, i.e., new HashMap() (instead of new HashMapString, Integer()). Just try to return one of your old (non-generified) HomePage.class

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sebastiaan van Erk
You could use Java's covariant return types to override getModel() to return a specific type. Which would mean that you would need to subclass to simulate generics (with a new subclass for each type). Also, when using anonymous subclasses it becomes rather pointless and you'd be back to

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Eelco Hillenius
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure I like where this discussion is going. I don't see anyone having any particular objections against current state. I think before we even think of (partially) reverting generics we have to discuss what's wrong

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi sebastiaan, You could use Java's covariant return types to override getModel() to return a specific type. Which would mean that you would need to subclass to simulate generics (with a new subclass for each type). not really, you can do generify your components from a certain level and

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Stefan Jozsa
Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:1) Generifying* Wicket [X] They, the core developers, knows better then me (everyday users doesn't have in-depth and extensive view on generification pro and cons. As usual, to find a good compromise may be _very_ tricky business). 2) How strongly do you

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Wouldn't that infer that the component has to have generics, or am I missing something here? Something like... public abstract class ComponentM extends IModelT, T implements IClusterable, IConverterLocator { ... public final M getModel(){ ... } ...

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Eelco Hillenius
Question is, how many of those users actually use generified wicket on day-to-day basis. Common, a quick glance and comparing some of the code/ examples you see with the code you write now (with 1.2/ 1.3) is enough to get a good - and as far as I am concerned informed well enough - idea. Eelco

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jan Kriesten
hi al, The second is almost certainly worth doing. That said, I use PropertyModel more often than anything else, and that doesn't allow you to make any guarantees anyway. :-/ good point. :-) regards, --- jan. - To

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread John Krasnay
On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:59:09AM -0400, Hoover, William wrote: I read it, but I think most people will be using models more frequently than 30% of the time. Personally, I use them 99% of the time. Really? Haven't you heard of CompoundPropertyModel? jk

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Zappaterrini, Larry
I am currently using 1.4 M1 and here are my choices: 1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Bernard Niset
Hi all, [X] Can best be done in a limited fashion, where we only generify IModel but not components. I care more about what generifying can do for API clarity (declaring a component to only accept certain models for instance) than static type checking. [X] I might rethink upgrading if my

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Al Maw
I think you miss John's point, which is that when you use a CompoundPropertyModel for a component, all its children typically do not reference models explicitly. Thus you typically use an explicit model on 30% of your components if you have a form-heavy web-app; the other components use the

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
Wow, last time I checked CompoundPropertyModel is a model ;o) -Original Message- From: John Krasnay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 1:22 PM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket On

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread atul singh
Hello everyone, I feel bad that a vote thread has been converted to one of discussion... At this moment wicket is *for *creating custom components. If these custom component writing gets complicated we will not be able to appreciate wicket as much(as much as we do now).Generics will complicate the

RE: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Hoover, William
I got the point, but I take things as people state them. It was stated that 70% of the time models are not being used (such is the case for LinkVoid). As you stated, they are being used indirectly. That is different. If that is the case then I agree that the percentage of components using model

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Bernard Niset
Hi Atul, Please read again the initial post from Eelco. He explicitly wrote: Note that it is not a vote; we only want to get an idea of what you think. and further away: Thanks in advance for everyone participating, and pls feel free to explain yourself further beyond just answering these

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread John Krasnay
On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 03:05:46PM -0400, Hoover, William wrote: I got the point, but I take things as people state them. It was stated that 70% of the time models are not being used (such is the case for LinkVoid). As you stated, they are being used indirectly. That is different. If that is

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jeremy Thomerson
My vote: X - Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified X - Whatever choice ultimately made, I'll happily convert/ start using 1.4 and up. I have to modify that last sentence, though - because I will continue using Wicket, because it's the

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Martin Funk
Hi Sebastiann, just for clarifying my understanding of the vocabulary: A_HomePage extends WebPage and B_HomePage extends WebPageVoid are both non-generified java classes. It is just that A_HomePage extends the raw type of the generic type WebPageT whereas B_HomePage extends the parameterized

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Igor Vaynberg
after using 1.4 full time i am more and more coming around to this point of view also. disclaimer: terms like vast majority are based on my own coding experience... the fact is, it doesnt matter how often you use models in components, its how often you actually have to cast the model object to a

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Sven Meier
IMHO we should try to keep the topic on your take on generics, not on your take on others take on generics. But while we're at it: I've read over 100 emails on this thread, and nearly all of the ones against keeping generics like they are currently implemented are from people who do not fully

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Johan Compagner
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Martin Funk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sebastiann, just for clarifying my understanding of the vocabulary: A_HomePage extends WebPage and B_HomePage extends WebPageVoid are both non-generified java classes. No the last one is generified.. The first one

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Jeremy Thomerson
I agree with the Class? extends Page with @SuppressWarnings in the framework code. It makes it easier, and there's no drawback either way. Jeremy On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Johan Compagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Martin Funk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Ingo Adler
1) Generifying* Wicket [x] Should be avoided, I prefer the way 1.3 works. Because it works. Please improve the framework in functional details. Make it even easier to use. Make is less verbose. Keep the API stable. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [x] I might

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread atul singh
Point!--but i thought it is intended to extract a survey kind of info(with explanation if one has one) Just that the information here is overflowing with untraceable debates On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:47 AM, Bernard Niset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Atul, Please read again the initial post

Re: users, please give us your opinion: what is your take on generics with Wicket

2008-06-02 Thread Doug Donohoe
1) Generifying* Wicket [X] Can best be done like currently in the 1.4 branch, where models and components are both generified. I care most about the improved static type checking generified models and components give Wicket. 2) How strongly do you feel about your choice above? [X*]

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