Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary; reply to commentary responders
f things like missing, inaccessible, or corrupted files. Or else, reports of procedures that worked w/ OOo vers. 3 that no longer worked once they installed vers. 4. That was all due coding problems w/o doubt—these long-term & experienced users didn’t suddenly become stupid &/or inept. What should be done & what will be done about bugs in OOo software certainly isn’t up to me. But what is done, or not done, w/ OOo software will determine the future prosperity, or the future decline, of the OOo office suite. BTW, my use of the “cyber-cliché” “imho” in my postings has been an attempt at humor rather than of sarcasm. It’d be a shame, indeed, if being a good-natured guy would serve only to bring the wrath of the present OOo “community” down on his head. Best wishes, Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Keith N. McKenna Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 6:30 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Anthony J. Rudgers wrote: Greetings All! The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it. OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely error-free, & much more user friendly. Beat wishes, Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A. Mr. Rudgers; Though your criticism bears much truth I feel it over emphasizes certain aspects. Many of the support questions that are seen here and on the forums are in the ways that AOO differs from other software of the same type. Most of my 20+ years in industry were spent in doing direct support and I know from experience that many "ordinary users" frequntly do not even bother to consult the help resources that are available or just complain that it does not work like xyz did. This particular problem is one that is very difficult to track down because it happens so infrequently that it is difficult for QA and developers to replicate. You say that documentation is meager and inadequate. I would direct you to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters. Though these are for Version 3.3 much of the information they contain is relevant to later versions, including version 4.0.1. Also available is a getting started guide for version 3.4 from http://www.odfauthors.org/apache-openoffice/english/user-guides/getting-started-3.4/published. There is an ongoing documentation effort to create up to date documentation for Version 4 and beyond on the wiki. We are always looking for volunteers to help with this effort and could use your knowledge and skills in this effort. More information can be found at our orientation page at http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-doc.html. All software is imperfect and has bugs. The only way any software product to improve is open and honest dialog between all parties. This is specially true for Open Source Software. Honest discussion on venues such as this and clear reports of possible bugs in the projects Bugzilla tracking system at https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ are ways that all users can help make this a better product. The QA volunteers have provided excellent hints for creating good bug reports in Bugzilla at https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/HowToFileIssue. Regards Keith N. McKenna -Original Message- From: Gary Frost Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:26 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues at all. Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to date OS. I do also create PDFs so that I can work on documents on my iPhone in Pages. Using the iPhone is usefully f
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Anthony J. Rudgers wrote: > Greetings All! > > The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO > software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a > word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets > something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix > it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a lot > of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet the way > they want it by trying again & again to get around built-in or > default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or > know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager > & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO > suite never seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you > usually can't figure out how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ > YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the ability to fix things > quickly on their own w/o "going to the experts" every time a > problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO product appears > flawed. People who use any software product want to spend their > time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending > time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to > develop it. OO office software needs much effort to make it more > efficient, largely error-free, & much more user friendly. > > Beat wishes, > > Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A. > Mr. Rudgers; Though your criticism bears much truth I feel it over emphasizes certain aspects. Many of the support questions that are seen here and on the forums are in the ways that AOO differs from other software of the same type. Most of my 20+ years in industry were spent in doing direct support and I know from experience that many "ordinary users" frequntly do not even bother to consult the help resources that are available or just complain that it does not work like xyz did. This particular problem is one that is very difficult to track down because it happens so infrequently that it is difficult for QA and developers to replicate. You say that documentation is meager and inadequate. I would direct you to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters. Though these are for Version 3.3 much of the information they contain is relevant to later versions, including version 4.0.1. Also available is a getting started guide for version 3.4 from http://www.odfauthors.org/apache-openoffice/english/user-guides/getting-started-3.4/published. There is an ongoing documentation effort to create up to date documentation for Version 4 and beyond on the wiki. We are always looking for volunteers to help with this effort and could use your knowledge and skills in this effort. More information can be found at our orientation page at http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-doc.html. All software is imperfect and has bugs. The only way any software product to improve is open and honest dialog between all parties. This is specially true for Open Source Software. Honest discussion on venues such as this and clear reports of possible bugs in the projects Bugzilla tracking system at https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ are ways that all users can help make this a better product. The QA volunteers have provided excellent hints for creating good bug reports in Bugzilla at https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/HowToFileIssue. Regards Keith N. McKenna > -Original Message- From: Gary Frost Sent: Saturday, January > 04, 2014 8:26 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: All > essay text turned to hashtags > > Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues > at all. Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to > date OS. I do also create PDFs so that I can work on documents on > my iPhone in Pages. Using the iPhone is usefully for last minute > work for me. > > I've thought about good version options for other iOS devices such > as the iPad Air which I intend to purchase. I work scrips and > other technical documents so it is essential for me to use best > practices to prevent loss of work. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alan Cliffe >> wrote: >> >> I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth, >> I've had that happen too once or twice so now I always create a >> PDF copy of everything I do in OO. >> >> >> From: natalie guttridge >> To: >> "users@openoffice.apache.org" Sent: >> Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: All essay text turned >> to hashtags >> >> >> Please help My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved >> it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned >> into hashtags...can anything be done? Regards Natalie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> - >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: use
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 TN Patriot wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500 "Anthony J. Rudgers" > wrote: > >> Greetings All! >> >> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO >> software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ >> a word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets >> something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix >> it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a >> lot of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet >> the way they want it by trying again & again to get around >> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't >> understand or know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have >> found, is meager & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & >> dedicated user, the OO suite never seems to do quite what you'd >> like it to do & you usually can't figure out how to fix things ON >> YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the >> ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the >> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, >> the OO product appears flawed. People who use any software >> product want to spend their time & creativity on what they are >> developing, rather than spending time & effort on issues >> associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it. OO office >> software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely >> error-free, & much more user friendly. >> >> Beat wishes, >> >> Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A. >> > > With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not > smart enough to use it correctly. > > In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to > have any of the problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot > of other people are the same way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst > problem, especially when you come on mailing lists with a bunch of > moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up. > > I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just > keep laughing at dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own > a computer much less the ability to turn one on without breaking > it. > > Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic > waters. > > TN Patriot; Statements such as the above do nothing to further the cause of OpenOffice and IMHO add nothing to the discussion of the problem at hand. I would refer you to the List Conduct Guidelines at http://openoffice.apache.org/list-conduct.html. As on that spent most of my working career doing direct support of one form or another I know first hand that there is a certain amount of validity to some of Mr. Rudgers statements. We need to listen with open minds to all members open the OpenOffice community, even those with whom we may disagree, if we are to advance both the development of the software and its acceptance in the wider world. Regards Keith N. McKenna Regards Keith -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSydqXAAoJEH0fu5UhGmBCNFYH/i91A65rdq8j+Hsmfqistgp2 4fA3BLawLyoG0YK4GgMQxNKUWcef7ekPYwcZ7w997C6fPxS9U964dqdLo71j+DMy xlEyjpY21AH4MYjnv4luI3JG2NoWWn6aGdHvjz5FXZc3xdsu8+xMCa5Jmhmu7asn 3a46ZyOzBiLt5rZHZSSlsD/Kz7c5JMR0yMrlx04w26EKNAOjx3AjUW2INXb4iNtw IN2t8E9PRTMmavr3p/uevYhawzZyobUl5YsY6Ys+mN8vIxcbUyoNJrgtLkOkvvu8 M8/2S7/OlrEkhvWvqlC6Lv/R3s4aa9jPY8chNpWqUj2rSbbAI9LLdit1h6zY3+M= =5IOM -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
On 5-1-2014 23:23, Rory O'Farrell wrote: The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to_always_ generate a backup. What happens with the backup when you work on a writer and a calc document e.g. test.odt and test.ods? I have no idea if test.bak is a writer or a calc document. What will happen if both backups are made at the same time, would they corrupt the backup file? Could something similar happen with auto recovery files? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Despite my fear of being considered too dumb to use OO, here's my experience: when a document I was working on (just trying to insert a line by hitting "return" between two lines) suddenly became all hashtag gibberish - as then did all my stored OO files - I reinstalled OO. And all was well. On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Rob Weir wrote: > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Rory O'Farrell wrote: >> On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:47:59 +0100 >> Andrea Pescetti wrote: >> >>> Hagar Delest wrote: losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as seriously as possible. No bashing needed, just look at the facts. >>> >>> The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many >>> users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in >>> ten millions save operations will get reported. >>> >>> It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document. >>> But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or >>> the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you, >>> I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a >>> similar problem. >>> >>> A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to >>> deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I >>> opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it >>> normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due >>> to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O >>> error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error. >>> But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images >>> did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too >>> (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe >>> this deserves a better investigation. >>> >>> It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk >>> (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's >>> not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this >>> scenario can be reproduced. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Andrea. >>> >> >> >> I think there are two problems here, which both Hagar and I are aware of >> from the Forum. One is the Hashtag problem, which I agree is not readily >> reproducible and in many cases may be caused by over hasty close down of OO >> or operating system, the other associated problem is the erasure of the >> saved copy which seems to occur often alongside the hashtag problem; no >> matter what causes the hashtag problem, I'm sure we all agree that a saved >> copy of the file should not be spontaneously erased. >> >> The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy >> of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a >> conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a >> certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to >> File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to >> File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some >> temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to >> _always_ generate a backup. >> > > That would introduce other failure modes: > > 1) User would require disk space for two complete copies of the > document. So in the marginal case a user might load a document, > change just a character and then be unable to save. > > 2) Some file systems handle modify and create permissions separately. > So you could have the ability to modify a document, but not create a > new (temporary) one. > > There are certainly cases where such an approach could help. But it > is tricky when dealing with the exceptions. > > The other thing to watch for is that some users cannot find their > files after saving, even if there is no problem with the saving. They > forget the same, what folder they used, etc. > > -Rob > > >> If the user turns such an option off, then on his own head be the >> responsibility for file loss! >> >> I should say that I have not experienced the hashtag problem in 6 years of >> heavy use of OO Writer on Windows 2000/XP or linux systems. >> >> >> >> -- >> Rory O'Farrell >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > ___ Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting http://www.doteasy.com ---
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:12:20 + Rory O'Farrell wrote: > On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:07:27 +0100 > Josef Latt wrote: > > > > > > > Am 05.01.2014 15:06, schrieb Hagar Delest: > > > > > The power shortage is clearly a root cause. > > > Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug > > > during a save operation. > > > > Whats about the autorecovery function of AOO. > > It can work, but for critical work relying on it can be catastrophic in the > instances that it fails. > > With an unimportant file, try pulling your power cord a few times; it is not > 10% reliable.. Sorry! 10% should read 100% > -- > Rory O'Farrell > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- Rory O'Farrell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Rory O'Farrell wrote: > On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:47:59 +0100 > Andrea Pescetti wrote: > >> Hagar Delest wrote: >> > losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data >> > loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as >> > seriously as possible. >> > No bashing needed, just look at the facts. >> >> The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many >> users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in >> ten millions save operations will get reported. >> >> It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document. >> But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or >> the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you, >> I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a >> similar problem. >> >> A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to >> deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I >> opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it >> normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due >> to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O >> error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error. >> But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images >> did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too >> (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe >> this deserves a better investigation. >> >> It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk >> (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's >> not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this >> scenario can be reproduced. >> >> Regards, >>Andrea. >> > > > I think there are two problems here, which both Hagar and I are aware of from > the Forum. One is the Hashtag problem, which I agree is not readily > reproducible and in many cases may be caused by over hasty close down of OO > or operating system, the other associated problem is the erasure of the saved > copy which seems to occur often alongside the hashtag problem; no matter what > causes the hashtag problem, I'm sure we all agree that a saved copy of the > file should not be spontaneously erased. > > The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of > the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a > conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain > sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new > (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. > Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary > relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to _always_ > generate a backup. > That would introduce other failure modes: 1) User would require disk space for two complete copies of the document. So in the marginal case a user might load a document, change just a character and then be unable to save. 2) Some file systems handle modify and create permissions separately. So you could have the ability to modify a document, but not create a new (temporary) one. There are certainly cases where such an approach could help. But it is tricky when dealing with the exceptions. The other thing to watch for is that some users cannot find their files after saving, even if there is no problem with the saving. They forget the same, what folder they used, etc. -Rob > If the user turns such an option off, then on his own head be the > responsibility for file loss! > > I should say that I have not experienced the hashtag problem in 6 years of > heavy use of OO Writer on Windows 2000/XP or linux systems. > > > > -- > Rory O'Farrell > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:07:27 +0100 Josef Latt wrote: > > > Am 05.01.2014 15:06, schrieb Hagar Delest: > > > The power shortage is clearly a root cause. > > Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug > > during a save operation. > > Whats about the autorecovery function of AOO. It can work, but for critical work relying on it can be catastrophic in the instances that it fails. With an unimportant file, try pulling your power cord a few times; it is not 10% reliable.. -- Rory O'Farrell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Am 05.01.2014 15:06, schrieb Hagar Delest: > The power shortage is clearly a root cause. > Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug > during a save operation. Whats about the autorecovery function of AOO. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Le 05/01/2014 12:47, Andrea Pescetti a écrit : A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error. But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe this deserves a better investigation. In this case, at least you've some text remaining and the file is not empty. It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this scenario can be reproduced. The power shortage is clearly a root cause. Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug during a save operation. Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:47:59 +0100 Andrea Pescetti wrote: > Hagar Delest wrote: > > losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data > > loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as > > seriously as possible. > > No bashing needed, just look at the facts. > > The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many > users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in > ten millions save operations will get reported. > > It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document. > But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or > the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you, > I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a > similar problem. > > A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to > deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I > opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it > normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due > to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O > error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error. > But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images > did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too > (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe > this deserves a better investigation. > > It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk > (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's > not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this > scenario can be reproduced. > > Regards, >Andrea. > I think there are two problems here, which both Hagar and I are aware of from the Forum. One is the Hashtag problem, which I agree is not readily reproducible and in many cases may be caused by over hasty close down of OO or operating system, the other associated problem is the erasure of the saved copy which seems to occur often alongside the hashtag problem; no matter what causes the hashtag problem, I'm sure we all agree that a saved copy of the file should not be spontaneously erased. The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to _always_ generate a backup. If the user turns such an option off, then on his own head be the responsibility for file loss! I should say that I have not experienced the hashtag problem in 6 years of heavy use of OO Writer on Windows 2000/XP or linux systems. -- Rory O'Farrell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Hagar Delest wrote: losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as seriously as possible. No bashing needed, just look at the facts. The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in ten millions save operations will get reported. It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document. But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you, I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a similar problem. A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error. But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe this deserves a better investigation. It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this scenario can be reproduced. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Le 05/01/2014 10:30, Aspects a écrit : With apologies, but can we get back to finding a solution to this problem rather than slagging each other (and AOO) off. I have used this suite since version 2 on OS X, Linux and Both 32 and 64-bit versions of Windows. I have only ever suffered minor glitches with formatting and some eccentricities with the spell-checker: both of them known and cured at the next minor version update. So do I (on Windows 2K, XP, Vista, 7, x/ubuntu) and never had this problem (using AOO 8 hours a day at work on Windows systems). But there are enough reports to confirm that there IS a problem somewhere. A clear root cause is power shortage (that is different than just killing the soffice process). What is not clear for me is if the shortage has to occur during a save process or not and in what step of the save process. NB: some reports seems to tell that no process was involved during the shortage. A disk cache issue then? This is unusual and sounds very much as if a file format was wrongly applied at the last save. Can we all concentrate on getting these two problems solved: finding some way of recovering the document and tracing down the glitch that caused this. I'm definitively sure that this is not a file format issue: the content of the file is full of zeros. There is absolutely nothing left. So no recovery possible. Some will find the rants from users FUD but I do understand such rants. This is a good reason to be furious against the application. I understand a problem during save process so I would put up with losing the new version of the file I'm saving (I mean the last edits). But losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as seriously as possible. No bashing needed, just look at the facts. Hagar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
With apologies, but can we get back to finding a solution to this problem rather than slagging each other (and AOO) off. I have used this suite since version 2 on OS X, Linux and Both 32 and 64-bit versions of Windows. I have only ever suffered minor glitches with formatting and some eccentricities with the spell-checker: both of them known and cured at the next minor version update. This is unusual and sounds very much as if a file format was wrongly applied at the last save. Can we all concentrate on getting these two problems solved: finding some way of recovering the document and tracing down the glitch that caused this. Paul Simmonds Sent from my mobile > On 5 Jan 2014, at 05:23, Gary Frost wrote: > > I don't get it either. I've never had any of these problems during years of > use. > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 4, 2014, at 10:07 PM, TN Patriot wrote: >> >> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500 >> "Anthony J. Rudgers" wrote: >> >>> Greetings All! >>> >>> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software >>> suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor >>> or >>> other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy, >>> & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, >>> or >>> else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or >>> spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around >>> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or >>> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager & >>> inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite >>> never >>> seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out >>> how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has >>> to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the >>> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO >>> product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend >>> their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending >>> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop >>> it. >>> OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely >>> error-free, & much more user friendly. >>> >>> Beat wishes, >>> >>> Anthony J. Rudgers >>> Orlando, FL U.S.A. >> >> With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not smart >> enough to >> use it correctly. >> >> In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to have any >> of the >> problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot of other people are the >> same >> way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst problem, especially when you come on >> mailing >> lists with a bunch of moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up. >> >> I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just keep >> laughing at >> dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own a computer much less the >> ability to turn one on without breaking it. >> >> Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic waters. >> >> >> -- >> http://www.lawcollective.org/ Learn your rights through cartoons! >> >> http://www.roadblock.org/rights/ Know your rights about and at roadblocks! >> >> http://fija.org/ Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from >> the >> over-reaching: police, justice system and government! >> >> Why does the government want to ban semi-auto weapons? Because you won’t get >> in >> the box car willingly. >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
I don't get it either. I've never had any of these problems during years of use. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 4, 2014, at 10:07 PM, TN Patriot wrote: > > On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500 > "Anthony J. Rudgers" wrote: > >> Greetings All! >> >> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software >> suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or >> other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy, >> & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or >> else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or >> spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around >> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or >> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager & >> inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never >> seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out >> how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has >> to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the >> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO >> product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend >> their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending >> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it. >> OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely >> error-free, & much more user friendly. >> >> Beat wishes, >> >> Anthony J. Rudgers >> Orlando, FL U.S.A. > > With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not smart > enough to > use it correctly. > > In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to have any > of the > problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot of other people are the > same > way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst problem, especially when you come on > mailing > lists with a bunch of moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up. > > I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just keep > laughing at > dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own a computer much less the > ability to turn one on without breaking it. > > Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic waters. > > > -- > http://www.lawcollective.org/ Learn your rights through cartoons! > > http://www.roadblock.org/rights/ Know your rights about and at roadblocks! > > http://fija.org/ Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from > the > over-reaching: police, justice system and government! > > Why does the government want to ban semi-auto weapons? Because you won’t get > in > the box car willingly. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500 "Anthony J. Rudgers" wrote: > Greetings All! > > The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software > suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or > other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy, > & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or > else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or > spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around > built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or > know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager & > inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never > seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out > how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has > to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the > experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO > product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend > their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending > time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it. > OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely > error-free, & much more user friendly. > > Beat wishes, > > Anthony J. Rudgers > Orlando, FL U.S.A. > With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not smart enough to use it correctly. In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to have any of the problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot of other people are the same way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst problem, especially when you come on mailing lists with a bunch of moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up. I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just keep laughing at dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own a computer much less the ability to turn one on without breaking it. Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic waters. -- http://www.lawcollective.org/ Learn your rights through cartoons! http://www.roadblock.org/rights/ Know your rights about and at roadblocks! http://fija.org/ Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from the over-reaching: police, justice system and government! Why does the government want to ban semi-auto weapons? Because you won’t get in the box car willingly. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Greetings All! The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it. OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely error-free, & much more user friendly. Beat wishes, Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A. -Original Message- From: Gary Frost Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:26 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues at all. Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to date OS. I do also create PDFs so that I can work on documents on my iPhone in Pages. Using the iPhone is usefully for last minute work for me. I've thought about good version options for other iOS devices such as the iPad Air which I intend to purchase. I work scrips and other technical documents so it is essential for me to use best practices to prevent loss of work. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alan Cliffe wrote: I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth, I've had that happen too once or twice so now I always create a PDF copy of everything I do in OO. From: natalie guttridge To: "users@openoffice.apache.org" Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: All essay text turned to hashtags Please help My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be done? Regards Natalie Sent from my iPad - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org