Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Thanks Andrew, I'd love to here some more from you or chat with you, you're perhaps one of the few that is really dealing with this scale of traffic yet. Not that this client will get that big, but I need to give them some idea of how this thing scales. Are you using an independant host yet or still leveraging off of the parsons? I'll have to bug some of the hosting providers too, like blip.tv. There's not a lot of people that have 10,000, 20 thousand or even 100,000 subscribers yet. -Mike of mmeiser.com/blog On Nov 16, 2005, at 6:35 PM, andrew michael baron wrote: Dreamhost is not a solution for a site with major traffic. They cant support it. Thats a matter of fact not opinion. Thats what they say: Dreamhost does not have any dedicated servers avil. at this time and shared server are too big for the kind of traffic you have. You mentioned you were in the terabyte range so that too big for Dreamhost. On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:13 AM, Steve Garfield wrote: with dreamhost you can set up your account for throttling this means that if you reach and go over your limit on one day, the next day you have it so dreamhost automatically puts up a page that displays to visitors that you have exceeded your bandwidth and to come back later... On Nov 15, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Randolfe Wicker wrote: what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall. --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Vincent Njoroge Ndonye wrote:In the meanwhile I should start vlogging!Yeah, isn't that it. Just start, worry about the economics later when it's an issue. :)To bad I can't write a proposal like that. :)-Mike of mmeiser.com/blog/On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Vincent Njoroge Ndonye wrote: Thanks all this is really helpful. I calculate bandwidth/month = filesize X downloads/day X 30 days.. Clearly I am too ambitious thinking 5 TB per month, but I am still keen on the commercialization opportunities - especially in registration mode as in salon.com for content, rather than ads. In the meanwhile I should start vlogging! regards, Vincent NjorogeOn 11/16/05, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love it when you do thisalways enlightening.On 11/16/05, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I actually have the same question. I ran into some old friends in Chicago at a prominent investment research company and found myself giving my an impromptu presentation on just what all this new media stuff is about. I tried to tone down my enthusiasm, but I knew I'd just sold them on video blogging and podcasting. (It was that damn pretty itunes interface with all it's CNN and Wallstreet Journal podcasts that did it.) While this is not a bad thing by any mean I have to get out a proposal out this week. I've illustrated 3 different plans for them and I pretty much have all the numbers. But what's really hard for me to grasp is the bandwidth and numbers. We're talking 3-6 minute videos 5 days a week, or at the very least 2 videos a week just to start with. There subscribership would be very high as they're quite prominent. So I'm trying to figure out numbers for say 5,000k, 10,000 and 100,000 subscribers and while I can do some math I'm asking about peoples experience. How much bandwidth are you guys using, how many subscribers do you have? I personally just used like 40gig of bandwidth in 48 hours with one video clip of David Cross from Arrested development. But I don't normally host videos as I'm a revlogger ad a promoter of all your fine works, not a vlogger myself. So, this is an incredibly usussual thing for me. Off topic point one... Is there anyone doing paid vlog or audio podcast subscriptions? On a side note, there's the big monetization issue. Does anyone here know if anyone's tried doing paid subscription video casts. I'm sure sooner or later Apple will offer RSS podcasted DRM'd feeds of music and / or audio podcasts. After all it makes a hell of a lot of sense to subscribe to an entire season of Lost or Desperate Housewives and have it delivered right to your computer than to have to constantly wait for it to come out and then buy it a la carte. However, I'm not waiting around. And I believe DRM is like putting a ten dollar bill in a half ton safe. Complete overkill and a stupid arse pain in the arse for everyone. So, what I'm asking is what mechanisms for paid subscription are people using? Are there any? or is everyone just doing advertising? Advertising will not fly for this product. Not the client and not the customers who'll be day traders, brokers and people who'll be getting the morning report on their way to the trading room floor. They're going to be very willing to pay for a good product and won't put up with much advertising at all. They're the sort of people who believe in money in hand and paying for what they want and don't fuck around. It's the perfect demographic really. So... it'll probably a paid subscription morning report... witht he same content being offered free after 11pm. Timeliness is everything. Of topic point two... Long live the videographer About the generally increasing need for good videographers. It's way to early to say if my little project will fly, but if it does go the way I hope my client will be needing a part-time or fulltime videographer and audio editor to manage all the day-to-day operations. I definitely not selling myself for that job, I don't have the skills, I just love to help build stuff, not run it. But that's getting a head of everything. What I'm really saying is these sort of opportunities for videographers are exploding right now. With the ametuerization of video based media the ones that benefit most are going are the professional videographers... Sounds strange right? Wrong. People ALWAYS make this mistake. The more widespread a technology gets the more people appreciate professional quality. Most of all knowledge worker fields or at least most of all creative fields are based upon what I call an "appreciation economy". It's something I learned very early on in design. The more designers, the more appreciation for design. The more good designers the more appreciation for good design. The only thing I can't abide is truly bad design done by people who really ought to know better. Why the
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
That's quite interesitng. They're probably growing their rack space. Brokering new deals for server space and then installing new indrastructure. We went through a bit of this back in the day. You buy up some new facilities or lease out some rack space... you develop it... you sell solutions until you fill up... then you buy some more. They probably got behind because they were groing so fast. -Mike of mmeiser.com/blog On Nov 16, 2005, at 7:48 PM, petertheman wrote: Dreamhost is not a solution for a site with major traffic. They cant support it. Thats a matter of fact not opinion. Thats what they say: Dreamhost does not have any dedicated servers avil. at this time and shared server are too big for the kind of traffic you have. You mentioned you were in the terabyte range so that too big for Dreamhost. True. I was lucky enough to get one of their last dedicated servers for Mefeedia.com. They will have dedicated servers again next year. The good thing is: they are growing fast and they recognize it. Dreamhost is one of the few hosting companies that would rather turn clients down than deliver a crappy hosting experience. I have nothing but good to say about them :) Peter -- http://mefeedia.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:10:31 +0100, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's quite interesitng. They're probably growing their rack space. Brokering new deals for server space and then installing new indrastructure. We went through a bit of this back in the day. You buy up some new facilities or lease out some rack space... you develop it... you sell solutions until you fill up... then you buy some more. They probably got behind because they were groing so fast. And they might not have staff to handle another room of servers. And the increase in revenue from another server location might not cover the additional cost in staff... I doubt the profit margins on webhosting are very high. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Thanks Bill and Adam, it means the world to me that you find what I have to say interesting. I've come to terms with the fact I'm going to type copious amounts or words, and am just trying to improve it and structure it better for easier reading. Also, I keep the biggest articles on the blog where it's more effective and doesn't clog the channel. I'm still trying to find the time to start spending more time on the group again. About Meet the vloggers chicago. Doh! I forgot. I'm not going to be able to make it sadly, I'm back in Michigan and can't get over there for it. But I could make the recommendation they check it out. This Saturday. Hmmm... It's going to be very personal media oriented I assume, but one or two of them might find it interesting. I should get them to go and get my arse over there to help present, that's what I should be doing. Peace, -Mike Michael Meiser http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - del.icio.us link blog http://evilvlog.com - serious lunacy has a new domain On Nov 16, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Bill Streeter wrote: Yes I do too, and I wouldn't even say that you were completely off topic. Your ideas about how the popularization of a technology increases the apprecheation for professionals and demand for the same was very insightful. I have been thinking the same thing for a while I just haven't been able to express it as nicely as this. I don't have any experience with really high bandwidth issues but I might recommend seeking out a hosting service that deal with or cater to high bandwidth content providers. I'm just getting close to burning up about 100+ gigs a cycle myself at the moment--not really in the same league as something like this. You should invite some of those people to the Meet The Voggers event at the Chicago Apple store on Saturday. Bill Streeter LO-FI SAINT LOUIS www.lofistl.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love it when you do thisalways enlightening. On 11/16/05, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I actually have the same question. I ran into some old friends in Chicago at a prominent investment research company and found myself giving my an impromptu presentation on just what all this new media stuff is about. I tried to tone down my enthusiasm, but I knew I'd just sold them on video blogging and podcasting. (It was that damn pretty itunes interface with all it's CNN and Wallstreet Journal podcasts that did it.) While this is not a bad thing by any mean I have to get out a proposal out this week. I've illustrated 3 different plans for them and I pretty much have all the numbers. But what's really hard for me to grasp is the bandwidth and numbers. We're talking 3-6 minute videos 5 days a week, or at the very least 2 videos a week just to start with. There subscribership would be very high as they're quite prominent. So I'm trying to figure out numbers for say 5,000k, 10,000 and 100,000 subscribers and while I can do some math I'm asking about peoples experience. How much bandwidth are you guys using, how many subscribers do you have? I personally just used like 40gig of bandwidth in 48 hours with one video clip of David Cross from Arrested development. But I don't normally host videos as I'm a revlogger ad a promoter of all your fine works, not a vlogger myself. So, this is an incredibly usussual thing for me. Off topic point one... Is there anyone doing paid vlog or audio podcast subscriptions? On a side note, there's the big monetization issue. Does anyone here know if anyone's tried doing paid subscription video casts. I'm sure sooner or later Apple will offer RSS podcasted DRM'd feeds of music and / or audio podcasts. After all it makes a hell of a lot of sense to subscribe to an entire season of Lost or Desperate Housewives and have it delivered right to your computer than to have to constantly wait for it to come out and then buy it a la carte. However, I'm not waiting around. And I believe DRM is like putting a ten dollar bill in a half ton safe. Complete overkill and a stupid arse pain in the arse for everyone. So, what I'm asking is what mechanisms for paid subscription are people using? Are there any? or is everyone just doing advertising? Advertising will not fly for this product. Not the client and not the customers who'll be day traders, brokers and people who'll be getting the morning report on their way to the trading room floor. They're going to be very willing to pay for a good product and won't put up with much advertising at all. They're the sort of people who believe in money in hand and paying for what they want and don't fuck around. It's the perfect demographic really. So... it'll probably a paid subscription morning report... witht he same content being offered free after 11pm. Timeliness is everything. Of topic point two... Long live the videographer About the
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Thanks steve for reminding me about the peak bandwidth issue. That ups the complexity. Back in the .boom days I was responsible for the development of a market data web portal. We got nailed during the market day and so of course had to buy peak capacity bandwidth, meanwhile all that capacity went unused at night and on the weekends. If they're going to do a morning report they're going to have a lot of peak bandwidth issues. Especially if they're doing video. Argh, more complexity. I was thinking about finding someone with a really well developed solution like Eric Rice and possibly use his front end with and independant host since the hosting issue is going to be such an SOB. I believe that would be ideal. But is just one option. Plus, on a side note it'd give us a chance to help develop the infrastructure (ie. transcoding and specialized feeds) to push this stuff to everything from cell phones, to pda's, to set top boxes to PSP's) not just iTunes and the iPod. However, that's a pipe dream if they're going to need paid subscription... they're going to need a custom developed solution and it's going to up the cost and complexity tremendously. Not to mention the complexity of just getting a proposal together. That's why I ask if anyone has a pay subscription mechanism either in use or in development. It would make a lot more sense for vlog and podcast hosting services to develop those services rather than building custom solutions. Damn, they should just get in the game and get their feet wet and monetize later when the paid subscription mechanisms are more highly developed. That's the third direction btw, custom solution, service solution, getting in the game and bugging apple about montization. That said I would hate for Apple to have a monopoly on monetization in this space. It's contrary to everything we've worked for. Beside.. I strongly believe selling codified secirity crosses a line that leads to legalized racketeering. Everyone deserves the same protection under law, law is not a place where we want to introduce have and have nots. Peace, -Mike Michael Meiser http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - del.icio.us link blog http://evilvlog.com - serious lunacy has a new domain On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:31 PM, Steve Watkins wrote: If you are dealing with a very high number of subscribers and time-sensitive show contents, you may need to look at bandwidth in a different way. For example is it likely that a large number of people will be trying to get the video at the same time? If you you'll need to look at load-balancing, having multiple physical servers, and the size of the pipe connecting them to the rest of the net, whether the host has multiple different connections to big internet peering companies (backbone?) stuff. Lets say you expect 5 people may be wanting to download a video in a specific one hour window. Maybe at any one moment there are 1000 users downloading. What is an acceptable download rate before they get annoyed? lets say 100kbytes/sec is acceptable, oh that means during this peak time you really need servers pipe that can handle 10kbytes/sec. Well all these numbers are just made up, but hopefully Ive demonstrated the point, that if time is a factor then some of the bandwidth issues of streaming stuff comes into play for downloadable stuff too, as everyone trying to download at once causes a similar strain to live streaming video to the masses. For sure there are ways you could force stuff to be 'spread out' and delivered over a 12 or 24 hours or whatever period, such as having multiple feeds taht update at different times for different users. Depends how time-sensitive the video contents are and whether the viewers are likely to have similar patterns of behaviour (eg I want to watch this stuff just before I head down to the trading floor to shout stuff at big flashing boards at whatever time am) Anyway if you have hundreds of thousands or millions of subscribers, such hosting probably goes beyond the stuff that is advertised with a visible price on the internet. Id look for a few companies that brag about dealing with big corporations with insanely busy sites, like CNN for example, and give em a ring to get a quote on a cluster of servers that can handle whatever peak data rate youve worked out you need. For the lower estimates and if time is not a factor, some of the more normal hosting options will probably do, just need to work out how much resilince you need, just how annoyed the viewers ma get if the server is ever unavailable. When trying to price up these options, the main complication is the amount of untruth that finds its way into the blurb of some hosts marketing. Some hosts that say 'unlimited bandwidth' arent always being upfront, and there are still limits. Theres always the network connection pipe limit as I mentioned earlier, but some hosts also get
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Yeap, the problem is the economics changes every time so they have to reexamine the ROI each time they expand their hosting facilities. We used to use a company called Genuity, if I remember the name correctly. They went public toward the end of the IPO craze. Had a bunch of black rocket commercials after they went public. You have to love the whole we have your mystical black box solution concepts that flew in the .com era. Anyway, I wasn't an operations guy, but they did have nice glass spaces and airlocks and the halon fire extinguishing systems, not to mention the huge backups... and then they went bankrupt... or maybe that was just everyone else. :) LOL. Peace, -Mike On Nov 17, 2005, at 6:24 AM, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:10:31 +0100, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's quite interesitng. They're probably growing their rack space. Brokering new deals for server space and then installing new indrastructure. We went through a bit of this back in the day. You buy up some new facilities or lease out some rack space... you develop it... you sell solutions until you fill up... then you buy some more. They probably got behind because they were groing so fast. And they might not have staff to handle another room of servers. And the increase in revenue from another server location might not cover the additional cost in staff... I doubt the profit margins on webhosting are very high. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
petertheman wrote: If you're looking for extremely high amounts of people watching video, go with the professionals. Check out http://www.limelightnetworks.com/solutions.video.html, for example. You might also talk with Doug Kaye from ITConversations, his blog is at: http://www.blogarithms.com/ ITConversations uses Limelight Networks, and I'm sure Doug would have some useful insight given the amount of content he's been pushing out the last few years. Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Michael Meiser wrote: Thanks Andrew, I'd love to here some more from you or chat with you, you're perhaps one of the few that is really dealing with this scale of traffic yet. Not that this client will get that big, but I need to give them some idea of how this thing scales. Are you using an independant host yet or still leveraging off of the parsons? I'll have to bug some of the hosting providers too, like blip.tv. There's not a lot of people that have 10,000, 20 thousand or even 100,000 subscribers yet. It would also be great to compile information about hosting solutions in the videoblogging wiki: http://www.voxmedia.org/wiki/Video Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
i'm using powweb for punkcast you get 5GB and 10GB/day bandwidth for $7.77/mth - plus there was a deal may still be - that you get 6 months free if you pay a year up front - so thats 18 months for just over $100. (please please please clickthru on the link on http://punkcast.com if interested :)) I run comfortably on 6GB/day on the couple hundred realvid clips that are on there, nevertheless my m4v's are going on archive.org via OM.. even if there upload interface is a little wacko at times :) joly I bought 3 years for $300. It is the Code Monster package, but the cheapest you can get Dreamhost for is $7.95 per month if you get their starter package and commit to two years. The lowest level package allows for unlimited domain hosting and unlimited email addressess. Monthly bandwith starts at 120GB and increases 1GB each month thereafter. I'm getting over 250GB each month and don't come close to that. --- WWWhatsup NYC http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Right you are. Isn't there an open wiki already in existence where community members are compiling info on products and services. Videoblogging.info perhaps. I saw Steve Garfield had started something and We are the media .com does reviews, but there's a lot of grown to cover. The problem is it needs an open wiki for compiling info, charts and comparisons... and meanwhile a rating and commenting system so people can review things. In other words it needs to be sufficiently open. Even if we can't have the initial info be open and editable if we could just keep reviews and rankings this would be very valuable, infinitely useful and desperately needed. Anyone know of a product review open source package.. Things that need to be reviewed -camera reviews -mac/win software video editor reviews -mac/win video aggregator reviews -portable media player reviews -hosting reviews -vlog hosting specific service reviews -misc services... google and yahoo search, blogdigger media service -a biz report that kept tabs on startups in the space -and a blog to report on new additions and reviews Now, I've got a half dozen projects but damit each one is better than the next. If anyone's interested I'll contribute what I can including hosting if necessary. After finding the right open source package running it should be fun and interesting. BTW, Thanks for the IT Conversations tip. I'm a huge fan of IT Conversations. Definitely my favorite source for podcasts. I'll definitely be contacting him. He perhaps better than know other knows the economics of large scale podcasting. I thought I heard something about them adding some video too? We could really stand to use something like this. Anyone have the time and resources? It might very well be a great monetization point with a little advertising, but I've vowed to not over contribute my time so I can't manage it. -Mike On Nov 17, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Pete Prodoehl wrote: Michael Meiser wrote: Thanks Andrew, I'd love to here some more from you or chat with you, you're perhaps one of the few that is really dealing with this scale of traffic yet. Not that this client will get that big, but I need to give them some idea of how this thing scales. Are you using an independant host yet or still leveraging off of the parsons? I'll have to bug some of the hosting providers too, like blip.tv. There's not a lot of people that have 10,000, 20 thousand or even 100,000 subscribers yet. It would also be great to compile information about hosting solutions in the videoblogging wiki: http://www.voxmedia.org/wiki/Video Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
That sounds like a great budget package. Not what I personally need, but probably just the sort of thing most people here would die for. Thanks. -Mike of mmeiser.com/blog On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:06 AM, WWWhatsup wrote: i'm using powweb for punkcast you get 5GB and 10GB/day bandwidth for $7.77/mth - plus there was a deal may still be - that you get 6 months free if you pay a year up front - so thats 18 months for just over $100. (please please please clickthru on the link on http://punkcast.com if interested :)) I run comfortably on 6GB/day on the couple hundred realvid clips that are on there, nevertheless my m4v's are going on archive.org via OM.. even if there upload interface is a little wacko at times :) joly I bought 3 years for $300. It is the Code Monster package, but the cheapest you can get Dreamhost for is $7.95 per month if you get their starter package and commit to two years. The lowest level package allows for unlimited domain hosting and unlimited email addressess. Monthly bandwith starts at 120GB and increases 1GB each month thereafter. I'm getting over 250GB each month and don't come close to that. --- WWWhatsup NYC http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com --- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 11:25:11 PM, LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure. But the other side of the coin is that if anything happens to you, and you stop paying for the paid service, all your media will just vanish. And this will happen. Even though the internet is relatively young, and has a young person's assumption of immortality, everyone who uses the internet _will_ die someday. And most of them will die before they want to or expect to. Do you have a will? Have you set up a trust fund to pay for hosting your content? Or would you prefer that it die with you? For all their faults, the free services do attempt to provide some solution for this problem. Archive.org, ibiblio, blip.tv and so on have as part of their stated mission to keep media available regardless of what happens to the original author. This topic may be morbid, but ignoring it will not make it go away. -- Frank Carver http://www.makevideo.org.uk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
do local backups on dvd.On 11/16/05, Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 11:25:11 PM, LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure.But the other side of the coin is that if anything happens to you, andyou stop paying for the paid service, all your media will just vanish. And this will happen. Even though the internet is relatively young,and has a young person's assumption of immortality, everyone who usesthe internet _will_ die someday. And most of them will die before they want to or expect to.Do you have a will? Have you set up a trust fund to pay for hostingyour content? Or would you prefer that it die with you?For all their faults, the free services do attempt to provide some solution for this problem. Archive.org, ibiblio, blip.tv and so onhave as part of their stated mission to keep media availableregardless of what happens to the original author. This topic may be morbid, but ignoring it will not make it go away.--Frank Carver http://www.makevideo.org.uk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home pagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Ok, I actually have the same question. I ran into some old friends in Chicago at a prominent investment research company and found myself giving my an impromptu presentation on just what all this new media stuff is about. I tried to tone down my enthusiasm, but I knew I'd just sold them on video blogging and podcasting. (It was that damn pretty itunes interface with all it's CNN and Wallstreet Journal podcasts that did it.) While this is not a bad thing by any mean I have to get out a proposal out this week. I've illustrated 3 different plans for them and I pretty much have all the numbers. But what's really hard for me to grasp is the bandwidth and numbers. We're talking 3-6 minute videos 5 days a week, or at the very least 2 videos a week just to start with. There subscribership would be very high as they're quite prominent. So I'm trying to figure out numbers for say 5,000k, 10,000 and 100,000 subscribers and while I can do some math I'm asking about peoples experience. How much bandwidth are you guys using, how many subscribers do you have? I personally just used like 40gig of bandwidth in 48 hours with one video clip of David Cross from Arrested development. But I don't normally host videos as I'm a revlogger ad a promoter of all your fine works, not a vlogger myself. So, this is an incredibly usussual thing for me. Off topic point one... Is there anyone doing paid vlog or audio podcast subscriptions? On a side note, there's the big monetization issue. Does anyone here know if anyone's tried doing paid subscription video casts. I'm sure sooner or later Apple will offer RSS podcasted DRM'd feeds of music and / or audio podcasts. After all it makes a hell of a lot of sense to subscribe to an entire season of Lost or Desperate Housewives and have it delivered right to your computer than to have to constantly wait for it to come out and then buy it a la carte. However, I'm not waiting around. And I believe DRM is like putting a ten dollar bill in a half ton safe. Complete overkill and a stupid arse pain in the arse for everyone. So, what I'm asking is what mechanisms for paid subscription are people using? Are there any? or is everyone just doing advertising? Advertising will not fly for this product. Not the client and not the customers who'll be day traders, brokers and people who'll be getting the morning report on their way to the trading room floor. They're going to be very willing to pay for a good product and won't put up with much advertising at all. They're the sort of people who believe in money in hand and paying for what they want and don't fuck around. It's the perfect demographic really. So... it'll probably a paid subscription morning report... witht he same content being offered free after 11pm. Timeliness is everything. Of topic point two... Long live the videographer About the generally increasing need for good videographers. It's way to early to say if my little project will fly, but if it does go the way I hope my client will be needing a part-time or fulltime videographer and audio editor to manage all the day-to-day operations. I definitely not selling myself for that job, I don't have the skills, I just love to help build stuff, not run it. But that's getting a head of everything. What I'm really saying is these sort of opportunities for videographers are exploding right now. With the ametuerization of video based media the ones that benefit most are going are the professional videographers... Sounds strange right? Wrong. People ALWAYS make this mistake. The more widespread a technology gets the more people appreciate professional quality. Most of all knowledge worker fields or at least most of all creative fields are based upon what I call an appreciation economy. It's something I learned very early on in design. The more designers, the more appreciation for design. The more good designers the more appreciation for good design. The only thing I can't abide is truly bad design done by people who really ought to know better. Why the hell do you think everyone in the creative fields flocks to big competitive markets like NY. It's because widespread adoption and exposure breeds further appreciation. Some say competition breeds innovation. Yes, true, but it also breeds appreciation and more appreciation breeds growth in an industry. You see this from the microeconomics to the macroeconomics. Blogs have helped news media and most of the traditional print news companies have adapted and are now making more money than ever, though admittedly a few are failing to adapt. Digital photography and the widespread distribution of cheap camera's has not just made the photography more competitive. Now infinitely more people are making infinitely more money as professional photographers. Ebay ametuerized commerce... now more people than ever are
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Is there anyone doing paid vlog or audio podcast subscriptions? www.veoh.com video.google.com (coming soon) -Jack http://view-point.blogspot.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
with dreamhost you can set up your account for throttling this means that if you reach and go over your limit on one day, the next day you have it so dreamhost automatically puts up a page that displays to visitors that you have exceeded your bandwidth and to come back later... On Nov 15, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Randolfe Wicker wrote: what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall. --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
How can you figure bandwidth use? Is it the number of hits times the number of minutes of the vlog hit? Is there somewhere you can go to read up and understand "bandwidth"? Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280 - Original Message - From: Steve Garfield To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site with dreamhost you can set up your account for throttlingthis means that if you reach and go over your limit on one day, the next day you have it so dreamhost automatically puts up a page that displays to visitors that you have exceeded your bandwidth and to come back later...On Nov 15, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Randolfe Wicker wrote: what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall.--Steve-- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.comVideo Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.comText Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.comLike Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Hi Randy When you post to blip you can set your setting there to update your Wordpress blog hosted over at dreamhost. Mike explained this to me and it sounds pretty simple though I admit I have yet not tried out that blip feature. After you sign up for dreamhost (where customers (disclosure, I'm a customer) earn referral fees:) http://dreamhost.registrar.com you simply go to the *Goodies* section and select *word press blog* and it walks you through setting it up. ***MikeH, jump in here if I'm wrong about blip supporting Wordpress crossposting. And btw, I'm also testing out another hosting service called Lunarpages, however imho their pricing is not as aggressive at dreamhost's. cheers r -- URL: http://r.24x7.com > Deconstructing the status quo, collaboratively On Nov 16, 2005, at 12:16 PM, Randolfe Wicker wrote: I have bought and prepaid for space on Dreamhost. However, I've started my vlogs on Blip TV because I don't know how to use Dreamhost or set up a web site. Can you run your vlogs from both places? Is there anyone who you can hire to help you set up a site on Dreamhost? Lost in cyberspace, Vloggingly yours, Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, Activist Advisor: The Immortality Institute Hoboken, NJ http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/ 201-656-3280 x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerSteve Garfield/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggervideoblogging@yahoogroups.com/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:13 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site/x-tad-bigger with dreamhost you can set up your account for throttling this means that if you reach and go over your limit on one day, the next day you have it so dreamhost automatically puts up a page that displays to visitors that you have exceeded your bandwidth and to come back later... On Nov 15, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Randolfe Wicker wrote: > what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi > when Dylan spiked if I recall. --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ▪ Visit your group videoblogging on the web. ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
If you are dealing with a very high number of subscribers and time-sensitive show contents, you may need to look at bandwidth in a different way. For example is it likely that a large number of people will be trying to get the video at the same time? If you you'll need to look at load-balancing, having multiple physical servers, and the size of the pipe connecting them to the rest of the net, whether the host has multiple different connections to big internet peering companies (backbone?) stuff. Lets say you expect 5 people may be wanting to download a video in a specific one hour window. Maybe at any one moment there are 1000 users downloading. What is an acceptable download rate before they get annoyed? lets say 100kbytes/sec is acceptable, oh that means during this peak time you really need servers pipe that can handle 10kbytes/sec. Well all these numbers are just made up, but hopefully Ive demonstrated the point, that if time is a factor then some of the bandwidth issues of streaming stuff comes into play for downloadable stuff too, as everyone trying to download at once causes a similar strain to live streaming video to the masses. For sure there are ways you could force stuff to be 'spread out' and delivered over a 12 or 24 hours or whatever period, such as having multiple feeds taht update at different times for different users. Depends how time-sensitive the video contents are and whether the viewers are likely to have similar patterns of behaviour (eg I want to watch this stuff just before I head down to the trading floor to shout stuff at big flashing boards at whatever time am) Anyway if you have hundreds of thousands or millions of subscribers, such hosting probably goes beyond the stuff that is advertised with a visible price on the internet. Id look for a few companies that brag about dealing with big corporations with insanely busy sites, like CNN for example, and give em a ring to get a quote on a cluster of servers that can handle whatever peak data rate youve worked out you need. For the lower estimates and if time is not a factor, some of the more normal hosting options will probably do, just need to work out how much resilince you need, just how annoyed the viewers ma get if the server is ever unavailable. When trying to price up these options, the main complication is the amount of untruth that finds its way into the blurb of some hosts marketing. Some hosts that say 'unlimited bandwidth' arent always being upfront, and there are still limits. Theres always the network connection pipe limit as I mentioned earlier, but some hosts also get upset if you use the available pipe to the max 24/7, or hit a very high number of gigs. And there may be a disparity between the size of the pipe youve got connected to the server, and the actual sustainable rate that server can send the data. Unfortunately Ive never hosted a popular site so this is all theory to me. Ive hit physical server limits before, eg a popular forum with hundreds of people simultaneously trying to use it, really begs for a better CPU and more RAM in the server. I think paid content delivered by RSS feeds is still in its infancy, its something Ive been meaning to look at again recently so I'll let you know if I stumble on anything interessting. I think I saw that nathan peters was doing a members-only video site for a specific audience. Technically thers quite a few ways to do it. Off the top of my head Id probably go for a method whereby subscribers are sent a unique link to an RSS feed, to discourage people giving the feed url to their friends because its identifiable, to allow tracking of such abuse, and to avoid problems with password protection causing aggregator incompatibility. DRM stuff is wished for by many businesses because without it people could redistribute or at least share with their coleagues, but how much of an issue this is will obviously depend on the audience. Hopefully most types of business can afford to forget this, and avoid the downsides of DRM. Magazines and other specialist-knowledge publications have always had to live with the fact other people might read the subscribers copy, they should apply the same attitude to this stuff. Of course the net scares them more because of the potential to share the copy with millions of people, but they should still employ non-DRM methods to deal with it, like sending the lawyers after anyone who redistributes on a grand scale. Cheers and good luck with it, I hope this stuff catches on, it makes sense and should appeal to busy people who know what they want and arent afraid to pay for it (because they can afford to and their time becomes more precious than a bit of money). Steve of Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I actually have the same question. I ran into some old friends in Chicago at a prominent investment research company and found myself giving my an impromptu
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Yes I do too, and I wouldn't even say that you were completely off topic. Your ideas about how the popularization of a technology increases the apprecheation for professionals and demand for the same was very insightful. I have been thinking the same thing for a while I just haven't been able to express it as nicely as this. I don't have any experience with really high bandwidth issues but I might recommend seeking out a hosting service that deal with or cater to high bandwidth content providers. I'm just getting close to burning up about 100+ gigs a cycle myself at the moment--not really in the same league as something like this. You should invite some of those people to the Meet The Voggers event at the Chicago Apple store on Saturday. Bill Streeter LO-FI SAINT LOUIS www.lofistl.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love it when you do thisalways enlightening. On 11/16/05, Michael Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I actually have the same question. I ran into some old friends in Chicago at a prominent investment research company and found myself giving my an impromptu presentation on just what all this new media stuff is about. I tried to tone down my enthusiasm, but I knew I'd just sold them on video blogging and podcasting. (It was that damn pretty itunes interface with all it's CNN and Wallstreet Journal podcasts that did it.) While this is not a bad thing by any mean I have to get out a proposal out this week. I've illustrated 3 different plans for them and I pretty much have all the numbers. But what's really hard for me to grasp is the bandwidth and numbers. We're talking 3-6 minute videos 5 days a week, or at the very least 2 videos a week just to start with. There subscribership would be very high as they're quite prominent. So I'm trying to figure out numbers for say 5,000k, 10,000 and 100,000 subscribers and while I can do some math I'm asking about peoples experience. How much bandwidth are you guys using, how many subscribers do you have? I personally just used like 40gig of bandwidth in 48 hours with one video clip of David Cross from Arrested development. But I don't normally host videos as I'm a revlogger ad a promoter of all your fine works, not a vlogger myself. So, this is an incredibly usussual thing for me. Off topic point one... Is there anyone doing paid vlog or audio podcast subscriptions? On a side note, there's the big monetization issue. Does anyone here know if anyone's tried doing paid subscription video casts. I'm sure sooner or later Apple will offer RSS podcasted DRM'd feeds of music and / or audio podcasts. After all it makes a hell of a lot of sense to subscribe to an entire season of Lost or Desperate Housewives and have it delivered right to your computer than to have to constantly wait for it to come out and then buy it a la carte. However, I'm not waiting around. And I believe DRM is like putting a ten dollar bill in a half ton safe. Complete overkill and a stupid arse pain in the arse for everyone. So, what I'm asking is what mechanisms for paid subscription are people using? Are there any? or is everyone just doing advertising? Advertising will not fly for this product. Not the client and not the customers who'll be day traders, brokers and people who'll be getting the morning report on their way to the trading room floor. They're going to be very willing to pay for a good product and won't put up with much advertising at all. They're the sort of people who believe in money in hand and paying for what they want and don't fuck around. It's the perfect demographic really. So... it'll probably a paid subscription morning report... witht he same content being offered free after 11pm. Timeliness is everything. Of topic point two... Long live the videographer About the generally increasing need for good videographers. It's way to early to say if my little project will fly, but if it does go the way I hope my client will be needing a part-time or fulltime videographer and audio editor to manage all the day-to- day operations. I definitely not selling myself for that job, I don't have the skills, I just love to help build stuff, not run it. But that's getting a head of everything. What I'm really saying is these sort of opportunities for videographers are exploding right now. With the ametuerization of video based media the ones that benefit most are going are the professional videographers... Sounds strange right? Wrong. People ALWAYS make this mistake. The more widespread a technology gets the more people appreciate professional quality. Most of all knowledge worker fields or at least most of all creative fields are based upon what I call an appreciation economy. It's something I learned very early on in design. The
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Dreamhost is not a solution for a site with major traffic. They cant support it. Thats a matter of fact not opinion. Thats what they say: Dreamhost does not have any dedicated servers avil. at this time and shared server are too big for the kind of traffic you have. You mentioned you were in the terabyte range so that too big for Dreamhost. On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:13 AM, Steve Garfield wrote: with dreamhost you can set up your account for throttling this means that if you reach and go over your limit on one day, the next day you have it so dreamhost automatically puts up a page that displays to visitors that you have exceeded your bandwidth and to come back later... On Nov 15, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Randolfe Wicker wrote: what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall. --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Dreamhost is not a solution for a site with major traffic. They cant support it. Thats a matter of fact not opinion. Thats what they say: Dreamhost does not have any dedicated servers avil. at this time and shared server are too big for the kind of traffic you have. You mentioned you were in the terabyte range so that too big for Dreamhost. True. I was lucky enough to get one of their last dedicated servers for Mefeedia.com. They will have dedicated servers again next year. The good thing is: they are growing fast and they recognize it. Dreamhost is one of the few hosting companies that would rather turn clients down than deliver a crappy hosting experience. I have nothing but good to say about them :) Peter -- http://mefeedia.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
If you're looking for extremely high amounts of people watching video, go with the professionals. Check out http://www.limelightnetworks.com/solutions.video.html, for example. Peter -- http://mefeedia.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
i took advantage of their 80% discount last month just for a backup sandbox :)On 11/16/05, petertheman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dreamhost is not a solution for a site with major traffic. They cant support it. Thats a matter of fact not opinion. Thats what they say: Dreamhost does not have any dedicated servers avil. at this time and shared server are too big for the kind of traffic you have. You mentioned you were in the terabyte range so that too big for Dreamhost.True. I was lucky enough to get one of their last dedicated serversfor Mefeedia.com. They will have dedicated servers again next year. The good thing is: they are growing fast and they recognize it.Dreamhost is one of the few hosting companies that would rather turnclients down than deliver a crappy hosting experience. I have nothingbut good to say about them :) Peter--http://mefeedia.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Thanks for the tips.. checking out limelightnetworks, the planet, datagram. Hopefull will be testing in a few days. VincentOn 11/16/05, petertheman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're looking for extremely high amounts of people watching video, go with the professionals. Check out http://www.limelightnetworks.com/solutions.video.html, for example. Peter -- http://mefeedia.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- regards,vincent.njoroge.ndonye SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure. Also, the bandwidth from a paid services is usually much better than any of the free services. Speaking from past experience, I'd much rather visit a vlog that is not hosting their videos on a free service because my time to watch vids is limited. We're able to post 20-30MB movies and have them autostart and not stall on a high-speed connection. The same cannot be said for some of the free services. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. http://www.vlogmap.org/dreamhost.php -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Lossy Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about what host sites you all use to upload your videos. I have tried Ourmedia and Vimeo and have found good things and bad things about each. Ourmedia is reliable, but very slow and a very complicated process that I don't mind doing but some others involved in my site are not too keen on. Vimeo is great because of it's simplicity, and the fact that it will convert wmv into Quicktime for you on the site, but it seems unreliable and it doesn't give much control on how it posts to your blog. Any suggestions for good sites?? Graham http://lossyvideo.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. The referral program will only eliminate your cost if you can actually refer people. If not, I guess it's $10 a month right? What bandwidth limits do you get with that? And if you put up say 10 mb per month of new videos, you'll need an extra gig of space every year. I've been weblogging for over 8 years, so I like to think long-term. What's $10 per month? It's $120 per year. (I generally do not buy lattes or $5 beers...) I'm not against hosting your own stuff, I tend to do it for most of my files, but when it comes to photos, I'm happy using Flickr, and for videos I'm (mostly) happy using Ourmedia and Blip.tv, because the service is acceptable for what I am paying (zero) and I can't afford to host it myself right now. (I'm also a big believed in what Ourmedia is trying to do.) Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
I bought 3 years for $300. It is the Code Monster package, but the cheapest you can get Dreamhost for is $7.95 per month if you get their starter package and commit to two years. The lowest level package allows for unlimited domain hosting and unlimited email addressess. Monthly bandwith starts at 120GB and increases 1GB each month thereafter. I'm getting over 250GB each month and don't come close to that. We've only exceeded bandwith once when the Mirror World video got posted on Digg.com - but luckly we got one refferal and walked away with money rather than owing money. You can easily setup a blog (WordPress), a message board (phpBB), a web shop (osCommerce), a photo gallery (Gallery v2), or a full-fledged community site (Mambo) with their one-click installs. They also offer streaming video servers and chat servers. Dreamhost is bad ass. Well worth the money. -Matt http://www.vlogmap.org/dreamhost.php --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. The referral program will only eliminate your cost if you can actually refer people. If not, I guess it's $10 a month right? What bandwidth limits do you get with that? And if you put up say 10 mb per month of new videos, you'll need an extra gig of space every year. I've been weblogging for over 8 years, so I like to think long-term. What's $10 per month? It's $120 per year. (I generally do not buy lattes or $5 beers...) I'm not against hosting your own stuff, I tend to do it for most of my files, but when it comes to photos, I'm happy using Flickr, and for videos I'm (mostly) happy using Ourmedia and Blip.tv, because the service is acceptable for what I am paying (zero) and I can't afford to host it myself right now. (I'm also a big believed in what Ourmedia is trying to do.) Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
with all due respect matt, I think you are deluding yourself here about the stability and (prolonged!) quality of service for paid vendors my rule of thumb: as soon as you find a great hosting site (paid or not), use it and start looking for another - it's just a matter of time before they grow too large and unresponsive in bother service and customer support one more thing: the cost of exceeding your bandwidth can be very nasty with some paid services - what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall. markus LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure. Also, the bandwidth from a paid services is usually much better than any of the free services. Speaking from past experience, I'd much rather visit a vlog that is not hosting their videos on a free service because my time to watch vids is limited. We're able to post 20-30MB movies and have them autostart and not stall on a high-speed connection. The same cannot be said for some of the free services. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. http://www.vlogmap.org/dreamhost.php -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Lossy Graham" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about what host sites you all use to upload your videos. I have tried Ourmedia and Vimeo and have found good things and bad things about each. Ourmedia is reliable, but very slow and a very complicated process that I don't mind doing but some others involved in my site are not too keen on. Vimeo is great because of it's simplicity, and the fact that it will convert wmv into Quicktime for you on the site, but it seems unreliable and it doesn't give much control on how it posts to your blog. Any suggestions for good sites?? Graham http://lossyvideo.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us http://apperceptions.org http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com http://spinflow.org http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
No offense taken. I'm just offering up my opinion and I'm not sure how that delutes myself. The key component to paid hosting is the domain name. I'd much rather control http://ridertech.com rather than rely ridertech.freeservice.com, which is out of my control. As for video hosting, the faster bandwidth allows for bigger files (better quality). As for bandwith limits, the chances of exceeding 120GB in one month is very slim. We got dugg (now equivalent to getting slashdotted). The extra cost... Dreamhost charges $1 for each 1GB over the limit. If Dreamhost gets shitty, I can easily transfer my domain and FTP all files in less than 24 hours. If the free service you host video goes down, you better pray that you have a local backup. Oh, and you'll have to get over the fact that all links pointing to your media will be dead. I fear this with FeedBurner. Most of use would be screwed. -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Markus Sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with all due respect matt, I think you are deluding yourself here about the stability and (prolonged!) quality of service for paid vendors my rule of thumb: as soon as you find a great hosting site (paid or not), use it and start looking for another - it's just a matter of time before they grow too large and unresponsive in bother service and customer support one more thing: the cost of exceeding your bandwidth can be very nasty with some paid services - what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall. markus LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure. Also, the bandwidth from a paid services is usually much better than any of the free services. Speaking from past experience, I'd much rather visit a vlog that is not hosting their videos on a free service because my time to watch vids is limited. We're able to post 20-30MB movies and have them autostart and not stall on a high-speed connection. The same cannot be said for some of the free services. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. http://www.vlogmap.org/dreamhost.php -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Lossy Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about what host sites you all use to upload your videos. I have tried Ourmedia and Vimeo and have found good things and bad things about each. Ourmedia is reliable, but very slow and a very complicated process that I don't mind doing but some others involved in my site are not too keen on. Vimeo is great because of it's simplicity, and the fact that it will convert wmv into Quicktime for you on the site, but it seems unreliable and it doesn't give much control on how it posts to your blog. Any suggestions for good sites?? Graham http://lossyvideo.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links -- My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us http://apperceptions.org http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com http://spinflow.org http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Very interesting. What did happen??? Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280 - Original Message - From: Markus Sandy To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site with all due respect matt, I think you are deluding yourself here about the stability and (prolonged!) quality of service for paid vendorsmy rule of thumb: as soon as you find a great hosting site (paid or not), use it and start looking for another - it's just a matter of time before they grow too large and unresponsive in bother service and customer support one more thing: the cost of exceeding your bandwidth can be very nasty with some paid services - what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall.markusLeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure. Also, the bandwidth from a paid services is usually much better than any of the free services. Speaking from past experience, I'd much rather visit a vlog that is not hosting their videos on a free service because my time to watch vids is limited. We're able to post 20-30MB movies and have them autostart and not stall on a high-speed connection. The same cannot be said for some of the free services. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. http://www.vlogmap.org/dreamhost.php -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Lossy Graham" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about what host sites you all use to upload your videos. I have tried Ourmedia and Vimeo and have found good things and bad things about each. Ourmedia is reliable, but very slow and a very complicated process that I don't mind doing but some others involved in my site are not too keen on. Vimeo is great because of it's simplicity, and the fact that it will convert wmv into Quicktime for you on the site, but it seems unreliable and it doesn't give much control on how it posts to your blog. Any suggestions for good sites?? Graham http://lossyvideo.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us http://apperceptions.org http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com http://spinflow.org http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
Hi folks, Its been great reading and learning about vlogging. This is interesting I'd like to do something inspired by rocketboom, but for different audience and am wondering about recommendations for hosts who can handle around 5TB reliably. Who is the best out there for this level of service? Dreamhost, Datagram,.. thanks, newbie - Vincent On 11/15/05, LeanBackVids.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No offense taken. I'm just offering up my opinion and I'm not sure how that delutes myself. The key component to paid hosting is the domain name. I'd much rather control http://ridertech.com rather than rely ridertech.freeservice.com, which is out of my control. As for video hosting, the faster bandwidth allows for bigger files (better quality). As for bandwith limits, the chances of exceeding 120GB in one month is very slim. We got dugg (now equivalent to getting slashdotted). The extra cost... Dreamhost charges $1 for each 1GB over the limit. If Dreamhost gets shitty, I can easily transfer my domain and FTP all files in less than 24 hours. If the free service you host video goes down, you better pray that you have a local backup. Oh, and you'll have to get over the fact that all links pointing to your media will be dead. I fear this with FeedBurner. Most of use would be screwed. -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Markus Sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with all due respect matt, I think you are deluding yourself here about the stability and (prolonged!) quality of service for paid vendors my rule of thumb: as soon as you find a great hosting site (paid or not), use it and start looking for another - it's just a matter of time before they grow too large and unresponsive in bother service and customer support one more thing: the cost of exceeding your bandwidth can be very nasty with some paid services - what does dream host do if you exceed allocation? it happened to Verdi when Dylan spiked if I recall. markus LeanBackVids.com wrote: In my opinion, there is nothing better than paid hosting. If planned and maintained, you do not have to worry about about links going bad since they live on a domain you own and control. As long as I continue to renew my domain name, I can be certain that my video links will be valid. Who knows what will happen to the free services. Of course I wish them the best, but I would have no control if they went dead or changed their linking structure. Also, the bandwidth from a paid services is usually much better than any of the free services. Speaking from past experience, I'd much rather visit a vlog that is not hosting their videos on a free service because my time to watch vids is limited. We're able to post 20-30MB movies and have them autostart and not stall on a high-speed connection. The same cannot be said for some of the free services. I'm a big fan of Dreamhost (as are many others here). The best part is they have a referral program that can eliminate your costs. Given all the time we spend on vlogging, what is $10 each month to have ripping fast downloads and high quality statistics? Two less lattes or two less beers could make your vlogging life easier. http://www.vlogmap.org/dreamhost.php -Matt --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Lossy Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I'm just curious about what host sites you all use to upload your videos. I have tried Ourmedia and Vimeo and have found good things and bad things about each. Ourmedia is reliable, but very slow and a very complicated process that I don't mind doing but some others involved in my site are not too keen on. Vimeo is great because of it's simplicity, and the fact that it will convert wmv into Quicktime for you on the site, but it seems unreliable and it doesn't give much control on how it posts to your blog. Any suggestions for good sites?? Graham http://lossyvideo.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links -- My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us http://apperceptions.org http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com http://spinflow.org http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- regards,vincent.njoroge.ndonye YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group
[videoblogging] Re: Looking for the perfect host site....
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Vincent Njoroge Ndonye different audience and am wondering about recommendations for hosts who can handle around 5TB reliably. Who is the best out there for this level of Hey Vincent, why the 5TB number? Don't worry about hosts and numbers, you can always scale up. Just get a Dreamhost account and start posting. Peter Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
