Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
On 2/24/06, Soumyadeep Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well... since you mention A.R.Rahman, I thought perhaps the (only?) Indian here should pitch in his two cents. ...And welcome! Thanks for the interesting stuff about Bollywood. I suspected, but didn't know it went that far, and my perception of Indian films is a bit warped (see http://www.beginningwithi.com/Woodstock/bollywood.htm ) Obviously, things are not as they should be. We all know that... and I believe that at the very heart, this ongoing media revolution is nothing but letting the market decide what's right and wrong instead of corporate players. So, whatever your policy is Dierdre, I don't think there is a black-or-white explanation. No, there never is. In a way, I was hoping that those 37 seconds would give AR Rahman a bit of exposure to audiences who probably don't know him. From the opening bars of Lagaan, I thought This composer is amazing! He should be working in Hollywood! Andrew Lloyd Weber and a few others agreed, and I'm very much looking forward to hearing his work (co-composer) on the new Lord of the Rings musical. The snippet they used to have on the website was amazing. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
37 seconds is all you need for fame... yeah. :) Well... watch Hari Om if you can. While there are narcissistic monkeys in Bollywood who run photocopy-machines for films as production houses, there's a great revolution going on here in terms of media and films... the number of western/indian-indie filmmakers I have met in last one here in Bombay itself surpasses the number I met when I was living in Bay Area. Rahman is one of those guys who is going to win out this anyway... he's been doing great composition for last 10 years or so now. And of course, now Shantaram is going to be shot in Mumbai... cool J. Depp. stuff. So, future is bright and the Bollywood dirt is going to get cleaned up pretty soon, I feel. Cheers,de Soumhttp://csfvlog.blogspot.comOn 24-Feb-06, at 5:11 PM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: On 2/24/06, Soumyadeep Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well... since you mention A.R.Rahman, I thought perhaps the (only?) Indian here should pitch in his two cents. ... And welcome! Thanks for the interesting stuff about Bollywood. I suspected, but didn't know it went that far, and my perception of Indian films is a bit warped (see http://www.beginningwithi.com/Woodstock/bollywood.htm ) Obviously, things are not as they should be. We all know that... and I believe that at the very heart, this ongoing media revolution is nothing but letting the market decide what's right and wrong instead of corporate players. So, whatever your policy is Dierdre, I don't think there is a black-or-white explanation. No, there never is. In a way, I was hoping that those 37 seconds would give AR Rahman a bit of exposure to audiences who probably don't know him. From the opening bars of Lagaan, I thought "This composer is amazing! He should be working in Hollywood!" Andrew Lloyd Weber and a few others agreed, and I'm very much looking forward to hearing his work (co-composer) on the new "Lord of the Rings" musical. The snippet they used to have on the website was amazing. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
On 2/22/06, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I really wish it would stop. I cringe every time I see a video bysomeone in this group that is using music they obviously do not have theright to use. If we are supposed to be here helping newbies get into videoblogging, what sort of example does that set?I plead guilty, and state (again) my reasons:1. Sometimes you have to use well-known music to get a particular effect (often humor). Fanvids are an example in which neither the video nor the music belongs to the fanvid creator, who puts the two together to create something new and wonderful which is usually a compliment to (and advertising of) both sources. 2. Sometimes you just want music to create an atmosphere, but it's too hard/time consuming to find safe music to use. For my trailer, I wanted something Indian because a lot of the footage was shot in India. I did a bit of searching around on various podsafe sources, but there didn't seem to be any Indian music available except 5-second instrument samples. So I used music I was already familiar with, and kept it short (37 seconds out of a 5- or 6-minute piece), in hopes that AR Rahman would see this as fair use and a compliment - if, indeed, he ever sees it at all! 3. I own thousands of CDs and know by heart many more thousands of songs. It's a lot easier and faster for me to search this interior catalog (and/or my iTunes library) than to listen to hours of new music to try to find something suitable for whatever project. Editing video already takes more time than I have - I don't have time to audition the music as well! Of course anything can be abused, but I would argue that much of the use of music in vlogs is part of the fast-growing and creatively fertile mash-up culture. We can hope (faintly!) that the music industry will eventually come around to seeing it my way. In any case, so far no one has complained about music in any of my videos (have they about anyone else's?), nor have they been removed from any service, to my knowledge, for copyright reasons. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
On 2/22/06, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's absolutely a good idea to make your own music, or find/buyroyalty-free podsafe music. If you do anything else, you're takinga risk. But also keep in mind, the boundaries of Fair Use have notbeen fully tested in court. I sometimes choose to take the risk on my non-commercial personal vlog, crediting the artist, ratherthan inhibit my creativity. No cease-and-desists, so far. I'm with Chuck. I think sometimes the fair use argument needs to be tested (although, I'm not sure Zadi's would hold up, at least on the green day side of things...the footage yes). The center for social media (http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org) published a very good Best Practices For Fair Use that would an interesting thread topic. And on the other hand, I think we should be using podsafe music as a matter of principle as well. If we want to start sowing the future with work that others can freely sample, we have to make completely CC Safe stuff, music included. Not sure about Deidre's argument - just because you like a song, or its the best one for your vlog, doesn't qualify it as fair use. Now, if you want to push or argue for some ammendment to the law that makes an exemption for personal or non-commercial use, I could get behind that. The problem there is where do you draw the line? Would you want someone using your work in a homophobic film, or a KKK video? My personal feelings tend toward anarchy, but I'm not sure you can build a system on that :) By the way, you guys are LUCKY to have this argument. In Canada, our fair use rights are extremely narrow. and PS, sorry couldn't change the title of the thread, gmail doesn't seem to allow that when you reply? The perfect example of a potentially legitimate use of copyrightedmusic is Zadi's When September Ends video, which was written about in the NY Times Critic's Notebook:http://smashface.com/vlog/20050924nytimes.htmlThen of course there's my Welcome to the Future video which deals with this whole clash between copyright and ourdesire to capture, share, remix:http://blogumentary.typepad.com/vlog/2005/03/videoblog_week__2.html Keep in mind Zadi and I could hear from record company lawyers.Maybe we could get the EFF to defend, but more likely it'seasier to simply remove the video. Worst case scenario would behaving to pay a fine, if the RIAA charges we're illiegally distributing music. That would suck.-chuckhttp://mnstories.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I really wish it would stop. I cringe every time I see a video by someone in this group that is using music they obviously do not have the right to use. If we are supposed to be here helping newbies get into videoblogging, what sort of example does that set?Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- --- Brett Gaylorhttp://www.etherworks.cahttp://www.homelessnation.org SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brett Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem there is where do you draw the line? Would you want someone using your work in a homophobic film, or a KKK video? My personal feelings tend toward anarchy, but I'm not sure you can build a system on that :) But most of our Creative Commons licenses allow people to use our work in a homophobic and KKK videos as well... as long as they attribute us, don't make money from their work and share alike, they are following copyright laws to a tea. This is the price we pay for free speech, I guess... Kitka http://www.kitkast.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
But most of our Creative Commons licenses allow people to use our workin a homophobic and KKK videos as well... as long as they attribute us, don't make money from their work and share alike, they arefollowing copyright laws to a tea. Good point, but i'm talking about work that isn't released under a CC license. What I was getting at was that if they didn't intend their work to be used this way, how would one feel if their work was used in a way they didn't intend or disagreed with? Actually playing devil's advocate in this case, anyway. ---Brett Gaylorhttp://www.etherworks.cahttp://www.homelessnation.org SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Brett Gaylor wrote: On 2/22/06, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's absolutely a good idea to make your own music, or find/buy royalty-free podsafe music. If you do anything else, you're taking a risk. But also keep in mind, the boundaries of Fair Use have not been fully tested in court. I sometimes choose to take the risk on my non-commercial personal vlog, crediting the artist, rather than inhibit my creativity. No cease-and-desists, so far. I'm with Chuck. I think sometimes the fair use argument needs to be tested (although, I'm not sure Zadi's would hold up, at least on the green day side of things...the footage yes). If it's really fair use. I've seen plenty of uses of copyrighted music where it does not seem to be for criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research and more for the fact that the person creating the video liked the music and thought it complemented their visuals. And on the other hand, I think we should be using podsafe music as a matter of principle as well. If we want to start sowing the future with work that others can freely sample, we have to make completely CC Safe stuff, music included. Agreed. I'm working towards a future where artists can control how their work is used, easily and clearly. Today too many artists have no control over the things they create. Not sure about Deidre's argument - just because you like a song, or its the best one for your vlog, doesn't qualify it as fair use. Yup, see above. :) Now, if you want to push or argue for some ammendment to the law that makes an exemption for personal or non-commercial use, I could get behind that. The problem there is where do you draw the line? Would you want someone using your work in a homophobic film, or a KKK video? My personal feelings tend toward anarchy, but I'm not sure you can build a system on that :) I wouldn't want my work used in a homophobic film or KKK video, but as mentioned, if they followed the licensing terms, etc. it's sort of the price of freedom. Since my stuff is cc:by-nc-sa they'd have to follow the 'by' by mentioning/linking to me, I'd be pretty sure to publish something stating my own beliefs on the matter. Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Don't forget about Technorati's new Favorites feature.http://technorati.com/help/favorites.htmlAnd with their widget, you could have your Technorati faves on your site: http://technorati.com/account/favwidget.html...no, I don't work for technorati :)On 2/23/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallelujah, a message On Topic. thanks Susan.blogrolls are a great example. This year. I predict some nice enhancements to this piece of the discovery puzzle. i will share some thoughts on this when i have more time. time to clock out! sullOn 2/23/06, Susan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ugh.Bubbling hurts my tummy.I'm such an un-avid-fan of popularity contests... so here's the best Ican offer, from an I-don't-have-the-time working mother.I have a vlogroll, which is actually powered by blogrolling.com .Many people have a vlogroll--a list of links on the sidebar of theirpage--say, their ten favorite vlogs. If I like the vlog I'm reading, maybe I'll venture to check out one of the vlogs on that person's vlogroll.They would only put vlogs upthere they liked, right?And then from that vlog, I could click on a link from theirvlogroll... and so on...That's about as good a reference as I can suggest--friend to friend. There's not much else that will work for me personally--or that I willtake the time to learn.Susan http://vlog.kitykity.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most have agreed, we need to have systems in place to bubble up video. The idea is to help find so-called 'good stuff'.Granted, that depends on who you'r e asking but we need to speak in generalities too.It's not so much good as it is contagious. We talk about how viral video hosting services are mostly filled with video that is more entertaining to teens goofing around and not so in tunewith quality content creation.The ratio is heavily tilted. Some will use the youtubesque services as a stepping stone if at some point they want to take things more seriously then they willalso want more control and more flexibility.They will stop using youtubesand start looking at the other options commonly discussed here.Once people have an idea and want to start a project an Internet Video Channelthey will abandon their sole use on youtubes.I truly do not feel any concernabout this. I do't worry about these big projects damaging the ultimate vision of the open media revolution Vlogging et all.It will co-exist.Some good comes out of it even if its difficult to see.Like I said, they canbe a sort of launch pad for some people.Its our job to continue to evolve the tools and services more applicable to vlogging and they will come looking for them.And we will welcome them and show them how to take advantage of the technologies of our time. But still, the issue of bubbling up video.We have various popularity metering techniques but they rely on people and assume that people will actively participate in giving their input by way of a click here and a click there and comment here etc... Such systems can work well in some environments... like productpurchases on Amazon or eBay.But will the masses do the same for Internet videoto the point where it actually helps?Even if so. How often will theserandom people who are ranking random videos actually synchronize with what you think is good? Do we subscribe instead to trusted sources? Do we need more of a system that utilizes a broader view of the network subscribe to people who can choose to 'spread' anything that they think is worthy of spreading? If they blog and create content do they click 'spread this' if they truly think they ought to? And that alerts anyone who has chosen to subscribe tothis 'person'.. not this blog in particular, but this person.Maybe.They could be posting a new video, a podcast, a picture or linking/quoting an article whatever the format and whatever the content theymay choose to give the content that extra 'push' by using this hypothetical'spread' feature.By default, their blog will ping other sites and offer core RSS feeds etc... but this would be different this would be tappinginto the intentionality of the trusted source.And you could be doing the same thing.And those you trust may trust you as well.And turning off these sources should be 2 clicks away.New concept unlikely.butmaybe its a good path to work on. What else could we do?Rely on technical algorithms? 5 star rankings? i dont think so.diggs and bombs and karma? is it too easy to digg something? who are these people that are into ranking pieces of content?do they matter?does this only work best for some nicehes and not others? Does it provide enough of a natural cohesion of the conversphere? Are Human Filters better? Will any of this matter in 6 months or 2 years?Maybe we will all be focusing on our favorite web sites that we have chosen to trust and that will be enough.They may not exist yet, but sites that monitor the pulse...
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Well... since you mention A.R.Rahman, I thought perhaps the (only?) Indian here should pitch in his two cents. I would say that the temptation is huge, but then as any video/film creator would say, sound contributes a huge lot to the video itself. If that's the case, whenever we take music from anyone else (royalty free or not), we don't remain the sole creators. Hence attribution is a must. The difficult question to answer, however, is whether we *should* use it at all or not. While, like most questions in the universe, there is no right or wrong answer to this, but (just in case you feel that you did something wrong):1. The entire Indian music and film industry is based on copyright violation -- every film that comes out of the west is copied, remixed, scenes stolen frame-to-frame, stories lifted right out and pasted with Indian dialogues... it doesn't stop at that. The entire Indian music industry picks up songs from 1960s/70s (the golden era of Indian music and films) and remixes them and makes money. I can hardly remember the last original piece of work I saw. Is that a copyright violation? One of the most successful films that came out last year - Black - by Sanjay Leela Bhansali, is a straight off lift from Miracle Worker (Helen Keller stuff), and the director had the audacity to send the film to Cannes/Academy awards with the hope of winning best foreign film. I wish someone just listed out the copies floating around in the market and found out a way to catch the thieves. But then again...2. In a world where we all know each other, copyright would become useless because we would know if its your original or not. As it is, the copyright laws are highly skewed, and so is the entire economics around the media industry -- for instance, I understand paying $15 for an album in US... but when you go to Asian countries and the same album sells at a similar price (where the dollar conversion is 50 times the currency!), I start wondering if this is "right" (Rs 700 of album price buys probably 70 meals for some sections of society). Obviously, things are not as they should be. We all know that... and I believe that at the very heart, this ongoing media revolution is nothing but letting the market decide what's right and wrong instead of corporate players. So, whatever your policy is Dierdre, I don't think there is a black-or-white explanation. On 23-Feb-06, at 3:38 PM, Deirdre Straughan wrote: On 2/22/06, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I really wish it would stop. I cringe every time I see a video bysomeone in this group that is using music they obviously do not have theright to use. If we are supposed to be here helping newbies get into videoblogging, what sort of example does that set?I plead guilty, and state (again) my reasons:1. Sometimes you have to use well-known music to get a particular effect (often humor). Fanvids are an example in which neither the video nor the music belongs to the fanvid creator, who puts the two together to create something new and wonderful which is usually a compliment to (and advertising of) both sources. 2. Sometimes you just want music to create an atmosphere, but it's too hard/time consuming to find "safe" music to use. For my trailer, I wanted something Indian because a lot of the footage was shot in India. I did a bit of searching around on various "podsafe" sources, but there didn't seem to be any Indian music available except 5-second instrument samples. So I used music I was already familiar with, and kept it short (37 seconds out of a 5- or 6-minute piece), in hopes that AR Rahman would see this as fair use and a compliment - if, indeed, he ever sees it at all! 3. I own thousands of CDs and know by heart many more thousands of songs. It's a lot easier and faster for me to "search" this interior catalog (and/or my iTunes library) than to listen to hours of new music to try to find something suitable for whatever project. Editing video already takes more time than I have - I don't have time to audition the music as well! Of course anything can be abused, but I would argue that much of the use of music in vlogs is part of the fast-growing and creatively fertile mash-up culture. We can hope (faintly!) that the music industry will eventually come around to seeing it my way. In any case, so far no one has complained about music in any of my videos (have they about anyone else's?), nor have they been removed from any service, to my knowledge, for copyright reasons. -- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work) SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:10:32 +0100, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of the first ten videos, only one is clearly copyrighted with a second one probable. The rest are original, amateur works to share with friends and others with similar intrests. What are you trying to say? All those videos are covered by copyright - doesn't matter if you make it for friends or MTV. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Here's the scenario: I've finished shooting material for tomorrow's vlog, but I haven't edited it. It's dinner time. It's so much easier to let American Idol wash over me while I eat than to seek out new material on the Internet because I'm not well set up for the latter, while I've got a TV in my kitchen where I dine and I just want to plotz and relax and not do anything for a few minutes. Okay, a few minutes turns into a few too many and then into a half-hour, but I want to just sit and digest and drink my coffee before I get up to edit and Idol will be over in fifteen minutes at this point which serves as a sort of milepost that I can use to hoist myself back into action at the computer for editing. It doesn't matter that Idol is in its 5th year and the format is stale and the forced relationships between the superficial characters is hackneyed. It's on when I sit down and nothing else better is on and 4 of the women sing pretty damn well anyway. So what if Ryan Seacrest has the charm of an organ grinder's monkey; it's on. So I suffer a stultifying program that anesthetizes me a little more every time I passively consume it and diminishes my artistic and social vigor bit by bit. I do this because of conditioning, because I'm accustomed to it, because it's easier than alternatives and because I'm not interested in watching Internet footage of teenagers skateboarding. I'm not interested in watching adults skateboard either, by the way. I don't find watching skateboarding interesting. And, anyway, I'm not well set up to watch Internet video while I sit and eat. So that's part of what anyone producing video for the Ineternet (whether it's art, comedy, news, etc), is fighting. Meanwhile, check the time stamp on this post. I just finished writing tomorrow's show. And the most viewed show on Ifilm is of two adolescent girls kissing. Well at least they're not skateboarding while they kiss. -David A man alone. Around the world. The smallest boat. A world record. www.capatainhumphreys.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, robert a/k/a r robert.videoblogging@ wrote: I completely agree with Josh, re-posting the intellectual property of others is wrong. It is. But most of the postings are personal moments that mean things to a those of similar interests. Looking right now at lastest posts on YouTube I find: The Worm - a kid squirming like a worm in tha back of a classroom. Hilarious to those who are friends and were there. Summit View Documentary a kid skateboarding with proprietary music. While the music shouldn't be used, it's a practice that's been happening in some popular videoblogs. Love two girls and a guy driving in a car, listening to music while he holds the camera out in front of them from the back seat. They're having fun and grooving. iam only one a rap music video. It's roughly made, but could very likely be copyrighted material taken from an artist. ii SED WAZZ GOOD is two girls playing at hip hop recorded on probably a camera phone -- amateur and high spiritied. Mammoth Feb 06 two skiers going down a slope. Big 4 is a skateboarder going over some steps. chueco vs cali el cuarto is a soccer game that sounds like it's in Spanish language recorded off TV -- copyrighted material. Me in Pump It Up Dancing, Tashannie - Don't Bother Me is a kid recording himself playing a dance videogame with some speed and precision. sk8allDay has titling, with music by Queen and the camera following a skater try different challenges. He describes what he's trying to do. Slow motion is used to emphasize sections. A crowd reacts as he keeps trying and failing. It ends with the camera coming up to the upside down skateboard on another failure which he picks up and goes to try again. Of the first ten videos, only one is clearly copyrighted with a second one probable. The rest are original, amateur works to share with friends and others with similar intrests. -- Enric -==- http://www.cirne.com BTW, wasn't this a great video moment? http://www.apollopony.net/2006/02/frank_zappa_on.html On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:56 PM, Joshua Kinberg wrote: I agree with this... yet I also think there are some cases where bubbling up is important. But you are correct that bubbling up doesn't satisfy the needs of the individual and their immediate social circle. It doesn't help people share their lives through video. I feel this aspect is being lost we need more good examples. Maybe that has to do with my own aesthetic concerns though. I feel like some of that spirit is being lost amidst the wave of lipsyncing teens and plaigarized video. -Josh On 2/21/06, Peter Van Dijck petervandijck@ wrote: On 2/21/06, Michael Sullivan sulleleven@
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:10:32 +0100, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of the first ten videos, only one is clearly copyrighted with a second one probable. The rest are original, amateur works to share with friends and others with similar intrests. What are you trying to say? All those videos are covered by copyright - doesn't matter if you make it for friends or MTV. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. How are they all covered by copyright if some of them are completely original works? Do you mean by the person who made the video? I was showing that most YouTube videos, though rough, are not straight copies of broadcast media like the SNL clips, commercials, sports events, music video clips, etc. Most of them are rough, personal works intended for friends and people with similar interests. I think if YouTube is successful, it should be understood why. -- Enric -==- http://www.cirne.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
I've mentioned this to a small amount of people, but I'll put it out there to the 2000+ of the group. I think there is a great opportunity for the aggregators to use Bayesian-type filtering (think email spam filters) to help gather videos of interest to the viewer. If the aggregator can ascertain the context from the blog post (and possibly the related tags in a directory like MeFeedia or FireAnt), then it can use that context to determine the type of video. It could then filter the videos appropriately. Right now I have 373 unwatched videos in FireAnt. If it had a way to learn what I like, it could then bubble up the videos I want to watch. Hopefully someone will run with this (MeFeedia, FireAnt, I/ON...anyone?) My 2¢. -- joshpaul Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Working on it :). I love reading this group because you all are so far ahead of regular people. I love it because it is what is driving mainstream 6-12 months out. Believe it or not I still have a hard time explaing RSS to my friends and family! So while all of these features are being built and considered, aggregators are still learning how people are using the site, and what their habits are. For example. I love dig as a site. But because its so seeming teen/tech heavy the only articles that bubble are about Apple, Linux, or Google. So now I try Newsvine, and its more progressive news with a NY times slant because of the types of people using it. I have said this in past posts...but give us some time to mature a bit and the audience to moderate a bit, and our offerings will improve. But these ratings types really only work when you get a fair cross sampling of users. -David www.youare.tv Get your video out there --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've mentioned this to a small amount of people, but I'll put it out there to the 2000+ of the group. I think there is a great opportunity for the aggregators to use Bayesian-type filtering (think email spam filters) to help gather videos of interest to the viewer. If the aggregator can ascertain the context from the blog post (and possibly the related tags in a directory like MeFeedia or FireAnt), then it can use that context to determine the type of video. It could then filter the videos appropriately. Right now I have 373 unwatched videos in FireAnt. If it had a way to learn what I like, it could then bubble up the videos I want to watch. Hopefully someone will run with this (MeFeedia, FireAnt, I/ON...anyone?) My 2¢. -- joshpaul Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
I've thought about bayesian too.I had actually done some work on a blogging engine using this for comment spam control. Its def something to consider working off of..as part of the mix. Might help. Not too simple to do, however. sullOn 2/22/06, Joshua Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've mentioned this to a small amount of people, but I'll put it outthere to the 2000+ of the group.I think there is a great opportunity for the aggregators to useBayesian-type filtering (think email spam filters) to help gather videos of interest to the viewer. If the aggregator can ascertain thecontext from the blog post (and possibly the related tags in adirectory like MeFeedia or FireAnt), then it can use that context todetermine the type of video. It could then filter the videos appropriately.Right now I have 373 unwatched videos in FireAnt. If it had a way tolearn what I like, it could then bubble up the videos I want towatch.Hopefully someone will run with this (MeFeedia, FireAnt, I/ON...anyone?) My 2¢.--joshpaulYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- - - - - Sullhttp://vlogdir.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
But these ratings types really only work when you get a fair crosssampling of users. this is key. btw, keep up the good work on youare.tv. i enjoy it.sullOn 2/22/06, David Dundas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Working on it :). I love reading this group because you all are so far ahead of regular people. I love it because it is what is drivingmainstream 6-12 months out. Believe it or not I still have a hard timeexplaing RSS to my friends and family!So while all of these features are being built and considered, aggregators are still learning how people are using the site, and whattheir habits are. For example. I love dig as a site. But because itsso seeming teen/tech heavy the only articles that bubble are about Apple, Linux, or Google.So now I try Newsvine, and its more progressive news with a NY timesslant because of the types of people using it.I have said this in past posts...but give us some time to mature a bit and the audience to moderate a bit, and our offerings will improve.But these ratings types really only work when you get a fair crosssampling of users.-Davidwww.youare.tv Get your video out there--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've mentioned this to a small amount of people, but I'll put it out there to the 2000+ of the group. I think there is a great opportunity for the aggregators to use Bayesian-type filtering (think email spam filters) to help gather videos of interest to the viewer. If the aggregator can ascertain the context from the blog post (and possibly the related tags in a directory like MeFeedia or FireAnt), then it can use that context to determine the type of video. It could then filter the videos appropriately. Right now I have 373 unwatched videos in FireAnt. If it had a way to learn what I like, it could then bubble up the videos I want to watch. Hopefully someone will run with this (MeFeedia, FireAnt, I/ON...anyone?) My 2¢. -- joshpaulYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- - - - - Sullhttp://vlogdir.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Enric wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, robert a/k/a r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree with Josh, re-posting the intellectual property of others is wrong. Summit View Documentary a kid skateboarding with proprietary music. While the music shouldn't be used, it's a practice that's been happening in some popular videoblogs. And I really wish it would stop. I cringe every time I see a video by someone in this group that is using music they obviously do not have the right to use. If we are supposed to be here helping newbies get into videoblogging, what sort of example does that set? Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enric wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, robert a/k/a r robert.videoblogging@ wrote: I completely agree with Josh, re-posting the intellectual property of others is wrong. Summit View Documentary a kid skateboarding with proprietary music. While the music shouldn't be used, it's a practice that's been happening in some popular videoblogs. And I really wish it would stop. I cringe every time I see a video by someone in this group that is using music they obviously do not have the right to use. If we are supposed to be here helping newbies get into videoblogging, what sort of example does that set? Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... I completely agree and have been using pod/vlogsafe music from magnatune.com. -- Enric Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
--- Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree and have been using pod/vlogsafe music from magnatune.com. given that someday we might want to try to sell our stuff, i've a) asked a composer to do some original music, but equally fun has been b) using royalty-free music. i love how easy it is to find on the net now. it ain't as cheap as 'free!' but it's really really good when you need very specific moods to be able to just keyword search off things like nostalgic or adventurous and get zip files with 15 sec, 30 sec, and 60 sec versions. we have a running gag going right now where a melodramatic piece of music called Thrill Seekers is going to appear in every single episode of our first season... getting our money's worth on that one at least... -scotto -- CHERUB - the vampire with bunny slippers http://www.cautionzero.net/cherub/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
davecircumnavigator wrote: Here's the scenario: I've finished shooting material for tomorrow's vlog, but I haven't edited it. It's dinner time. It's so much easier to let American Idol wash over me while I eat than to seek out new material on the Internet because I'm not well set up for the latter, while I've got a TV in my kitchen where I dine and I just want to plotz and relax and not do anything for a few minutes. I know the feeling... Too many times I really *want* to get some editing/work done, but after 10+ hrs slaving for the man and 90 minutes of driving, I barely have the strength left to lift the remote. And the most viewed show on Ifilm is of two adolescent girls kissing. Well at least they're not skateboarding while they kiss. Now that would be worth watching! www.capatainhumphreys.com Did you mean www.captainhumphreys.com ? Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
Caution Zero wrote: --- Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree and have been using pod/vlogsafe music from magnatune.com. given that someday we might want to try to sell our stuff, i've a) asked a composer to do some original music, but equally fun has been b) using royalty-free music. i love how easy it is to find on the net now. it ain't as cheap as 'free!' but it's really really good when you need very specific moods to be able to just keyword search off things like nostalgic or adventurous and get zip files with 15 sec, 30 sec, and 60 sec versions. we have a running gag going right now where a melodramatic piece of music called Thrill Seekers is going to appear in every single episode of our first season... getting our money's worth on that one at least... Don't forget that if you do get to the point of selling your stuff, you can try to work out a deal with the copyright holder. Most of my stuff is CC Non-Commercial, but if you used it, and later had a chance to make money with it, I'd gladly work something out to supply you with a commercial license. Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
--- Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget that if you do get to the point of selling your stuff, you can try to work out a deal with the copyright holder. Most of my stuff is CC Non-Commercial, but if you used it, and later had a chance to make money with it, I'd gladly work something out to supply you with a commercial license. it's probably a lot less risky to work that out in advance rather then when you decide to sell your work, but yeah. i could do that, but what i like about the royalty-free music sites i'm using is how easily searchable they are and how reliable they are. that was one of the main reasons i wanted to mention that type of music as a resource. that said, read the small print if you go that route - not all royalty-free licenses are equally friendly; one site in particular, for instance, forced you to declare your finished product all rights reserved if you wanted to use their music, which didn't work at all with my CC plans. that said, if we do a season two, i am hoping to put out more of a call for composers - try to get some CC savvy musicians who might want to help score specific scenes or offer existing tunes that they think would fit what we need. i didn't really think i'd have much luck with that approach until i'd built an audience, so i just asked a buddy to score some scenes, but as we got into editing, it became clear we needed extra stuff. actually, one of our editors has gotten really damn savvy just using soundtrack to get beds and loops going that sound really professional. it still kind of stuns me how cool the tools / options are these days; fun stuff indeed. -scotto -- CHERUB - the vampire with bunny slippers http://www.cautionzero.net/cherub/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:21:27 +0100, Joshua Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there is a great opportunity for the aggregators to use Bayesian-type filtering (think email spam filters) to help gather videos of interest to the viewer. If the aggregator can ascertain the context from the blog post (and possibly the related tags in a directory like MeFeedia or FireAnt), then it can use that context to determine the type of video. It could then filter the videos appropriately. Right now I have 373 unwatched videos in FireAnt. If it had a way to learn what I like, it could then bubble up the videos I want to watch. Not knowing much about bayenesian filtering, but... Wouldn't a system like that just feed you more and more of the same stuff? And thus not giving me the videos I want to watch but videos almost like the ones I watched yesterday (those are usually different). - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
It's absolutely a good idea to make your own music, or find/buy royalty-free podsafe music. If you do anything else, you're taking a risk. But also keep in mind, the boundaries of Fair Use have not been fully tested in court. I sometimes choose to take the risk on my non-commercial personal vlog, crediting the artist, rather than inhibit my creativity. No cease-and-desists, so far. The perfect example of a potentially legitimate use of copyrighted music is Zadi's When September Ends video, which was written about in the NY Times Critic's Notebook: http://smashface.com/vlog/20050924nytimes.html Then of course there's my Welcome to the Future video which deals with this whole clash between copyright and our desire to capture, share, remix: http://blogumentary.typepad.com/vlog/2005/03/videoblog_week__2.html Keep in mind Zadi and I could hear from record company lawyers. Maybe we could get the EFF to defend, but more likely it's easier to simply remove the video. Worst case scenario would be having to pay a fine, if the RIAA charges we're illiegally distributing music. That would suck. -chuck http://mnstories.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I really wish it would stop. I cringe every time I see a video by someone in this group that is using music they obviously do not have the right to use. If we are supposed to be here helping newbies get into videoblogging, what sort of example does that set? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Will The Bubble Up Fizzle Down?
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, robert a/k/a r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree with Josh, re-posting the intellectual property of others is wrong. It is. But most of the postings are personal moments that mean things to a those of similar interests. Looking right now at lastest posts on YouTube I find: The Worm - a kid squirming like a worm in tha back of a classroom. Hilarious to those who are friends and were there. Summit View Documentary a kid skateboarding with proprietary music. While the music shouldn't be used, it's a practice that's been happening in some popular videoblogs. Love two girls and a guy driving in a car, listening to music while he holds the camera out in front of them from the back seat. They're having fun and grooving. iam only one a rap music video. It's roughly made, but could very likely be copyrighted material taken from an artist. ii SED WAZZ GOOD is two girls playing at hip hop recorded on probably a camera phone -- amateur and high spiritied. Mammoth Feb 06 two skiers going down a slope. Big 4 is a skateboarder going over some steps. chueco vs cali el cuarto is a soccer game that sounds like it's in Spanish language recorded off TV -- copyrighted material. Me in Pump It Up Dancing, Tashannie - Don't Bother Me is a kid recording himself playing a dance videogame with some speed and precision. sk8allDay has titling, with music by Queen and the camera following a skater try different challenges. He describes what he's trying to do. Slow motion is used to emphasize sections. A crowd reacts as he keeps trying and failing. It ends with the camera coming up to the upside down skateboard on another failure which he picks up and goes to try again. Of the first ten videos, only one is clearly copyrighted with a second one probable. The rest are original, amateur works to share with friends and others with similar intrests. -- Enric -==- http://www.cirne.com BTW, wasn't this a great video moment? http://www.apollopony.net/2006/02/frank_zappa_on.html On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:56 PM, Joshua Kinberg wrote: I agree with this... yet I also think there are some cases where bubbling up is important. But you are correct that bubbling up doesn't satisfy the needs of the individual and their immediate social circle. It doesn't help people share their lives through video. I feel this aspect is being lost we need more good examples. Maybe that has to do with my own aesthetic concerns though. I feel like some of that spirit is being lost amidst the wave of lipsyncing teens and plaigarized video. -Josh On 2/21/06, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/21/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most have agreed, we need to have systems in place to bubble up video. My 2c: bubbling popular stuff up is stupid. It's about what YOU want to see, and MOST of the time, that's *not* popular stuff. If it was, you would be satisfied gazing at the various youtube/yahoo/aol/mtv.. video pages. Hey, if it was, you'd watch tv for god sake! Forget about bubbling up popular stuff. We haven't nailed finding video you want to watch, but it's worth trying. It's about what communities recommend to each other. It's about your friends. It's about your interests. At least shoot for something better than bubbling stuff up. Bubbling stuff up is dead. Peter -- http://mefeedia.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
