Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Dave Grossoehme]

Make sure you note his hair color and eye color.  these might be 
something else you might be asked to identify your husband.


Dave


On 11/14/2023 1:21 PM, Chris Chaffin wrote:

I have considered the same thing when it comes to not only my wife, but also 
both of my kids.  there is a couple of things you can do.

First, keep a picture of your husband on your phone and mark it as a favorite 
in your photos so it is easy to find.
Second, ask a couple of family members to give you a description of your 
husband.  You can make a note of it, and you can then add a brief description 
to your photo, so if you ever have to access that picture, a brief description 
will be with it.
Hopefully you will never need this info, but one last detail that will be asked 
is their height and weight.  So to know an estimate of those could also help.

Chris Chaffin



On Nov 14, 2023, at 11:22 AM, CJ & AA MAY  wrote:

You may have a point here as I am interested to know what people look like and 
amsurprised when they turn out not to be at all like I'd imagined.
It troubles me a little to realise, as I write this, that I have no idea what 
my husband now looks like. If he went missing, there is very little I could say 
to help find him.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:20 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a greeting card. 
She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't be subjective at all. 
Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a good laugh over that, 
but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
wrote:

Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

Dido, Marilyn, and like you say, all minds do not work alike. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
MARILYN AND DON BILDERBACK 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 8:25 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Carolyn,  me too!  My husband describes all kinds of things as we drive or eat 
out in a restaurant.  He will do this without me asking and I love to know what 
is around me.  

Onetime while eating out with a friend in another state, Don mentioned that 
their were canoes attached to the ceiling in a Mexican food place that our 
friend goes to often.  She was astonished because in all the times she was 
there, no one ever told her about the décor. What good do these descriptions do 
for me as I can see nothing anymore?  The information makes me feel more a part 
of the world.  I was interested in stuff when I could see and still enjoy the 
explanations.   

Whatever a person wants or needs is the right thing for them.  Not all people 
would like what I like. What fun to know your mind works kinda like mine.  Lol

Marilyn 



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:55 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I asked Jim what he looked like, when we first started seeing each other. I 
want to know what color everything is, what kind of cars everyone drives, 
what's in style, all that sight stuff that I don't have now. I want to know 
what color the furniture is, what color the floor covering, cabinets and on and 
on. 

I guess what people look like too, and some of us laugh at my guesses. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
CJ & AA MAY
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:23 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

You may have a point here as I am interested to know what people look like and 
amsurprised when they turn out not to be at all like I'd imagined.
It troubles me a little to realise, as I write this, that I have no idea what 
my husband now looks like. If he went missing, there is very little I could say 
to help find him.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:20 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

['Andrew Walker' via VIPhone]

I have carried out accademic studies at some depth into the role of facial 
experessions and other types of what is sometimes termed body language. 
Firstly it is not possible to determine someone's inner emotional state 
from expressions reliably. Just because someone is smiling it does not 
always mean that they are happy, it can be just the reverse and smiling is 
a type of social signal. It is not even possible to determine that someone 
is lying by their body language and facial expressions, although the better 
someone knows a person the more reliable this can be. Studies of police 
interviewing suspects are no better than random chance at determining 
whether someone is telling the truth. The fact that someone can smile for a 
photograph just indicates how fake facial expressions can be. Anyone giving 
you a description of someone else is doing this through a system of mental 
filters and will vary wildly. I take the AI descriptions as much the same 
as a real person, that is, with a pinch of salt. I don't mind a degree of 
subjectivity since all such descriptions, AI or not are going to have an 
element of subjectivity. One of the great things about the AI is that it 
determines what it thinks is the most important element of the picture and 
appears to give this to you first. This saves time, and it usually seems to 
me it gives the people first  and then other items as to whether they might 
be important or nearer the middle of the picture. This is always going to 
be subjective and personally I don't mind it and indeed I find it the most 
useful feature. I know others have a different opinion which is fine too.

On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 09:56:13 UTC Ketan Kothari wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> I am from India and have been using AI for a while. There are plusses
> and minusses in every technology and I am shocked that we are wasting
> so much of time for this. Look at it this way. I am able to achieve
> quite a few things with AI that I couldn't otherwise. and of course,
> we always have the choice not to use it. By the way, I have checked
> the description with my sighted friends and there is generally
> agreement between them and be my AI. Let us not clutter the group
> with discussion that is more about end result of an app usage rather
> than its accessibility.
>
> Ketan
>
> On 14/11/2023, CJ & AA MAY  wrote:
> > We live in a world where predominantly people have vision and, as a
> > minority, it is up to us to adapt.
> > Sighted people have mentioned to me how uncomfortable they feel when 
> talking
> > to a blind person who doesn't turn to face them when talking.
> > A smile doesn't just indicate that you are happy, it is showing you are
> > friendly and approachable, that you are grateful for help which is 
> given, it
> > is a silent acknowledgement.
> > Alison
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: vip...@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Mary
> > Otten
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:37 AM
> > To: vip...@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> >
> > I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s
> > expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. 
> And
> > as a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times 
> people
> > have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently 
> you’re
> > supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. 
> So
> > I don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, 
> based
> > on who is making these glorious language models and facial expression 
> models
> > etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind
> > somebody else assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face
> > looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody 
> else.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not
> >> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making
> >> those judgements.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: vip...@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
> >> Kellie
> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> >> To: vip...@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> >>
> >> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just
> >> because an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t
> >> mean you have to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty
> >> is we have deductive reasoning and can make that determination with
> >> further input. Also, if you’re totally blind, every input of an 
> expression
> >> is going to be through hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or
> >> another human being. You’re still going by their interpretation of the
> >> expression, not your own judgment. Every single thing 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Ketan Kothari]

Hi friends,

I am from India and have been using AI for a while.  There are plusses
and minusses in every technology and I am shocked that we are wasting
so much of time for this.  Look at it this way.  I am able to achieve
quite a few things with AI that I couldn't otherwise.  and of course,
we always have the choice not to use it.  By the way, I have checked
the description with my sighted friends and there is generally
agreement between them and be my AI.  Let us not clutter the group
with discussion that is more about end result of an app usage rather
than its accessibility.

Ketan

On 14/11/2023, CJ & AA MAY  wrote:
> We live in a world where predominantly people have vision and, as a
> minority, it is up to us to adapt.
> Sighted people have mentioned to me how uncomfortable they feel when talking
> to a blind person who doesn't turn to face them when talking.
> A smile doesn't just indicate that you are happy, it is showing you are
> friendly and approachable, that you are grateful for help which is given, it
> is a silent acknowledgement.
> Alison
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:37 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s
> expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And
> as a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people
> have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re
> supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So
> I don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based
> on who is making these glorious language models and facial expression models
> etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind
> somebody else assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face
> looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not
>> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making
>> those judgements.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
>> Kellie
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just
>> because an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t
>> mean you have to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty
>> is we have deductive reasoning and can make that determination with
>> further input. Also, if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression
>> is going to be through hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or
>> another human being. You’re still going by their interpretation of the
>> expression, not your own judgment. Every single thing that is described to
>> us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation of what they visually
>> perceive it to be. That means, every description is suspect since no two
>> people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why it doesn’t really
>> bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that isn’t maybe
>> how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it out.
>>
>> Kellie and my lovable Lady J
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we
>>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it
>>> sees.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Robert Doc Wright
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>
>>> What is wrong with the truth?
>>>
>>>   - Original Message -
>>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz 
>>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
>>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>>
>>>
>>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>>>
>>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame
>>> 
>>>
>>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial
>>> expressions by blind people:
>>> 
>>>
>>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I
>>> used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

['Angie Nutt' via VIPhone]

Yes, have experienced this with some shoe polish: I have a small amount of 
sight and thought, along with my father-in-law who is sighted, that it was 
black; my mother-in-law, also sighted, thought it was brown.

All the best
Angie

> On 14 Nov 2023, at 16:15, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Try asking two or more sighted people how something looks, and odds are you 
> will get two or more different answers. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out. 
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message - 
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>>  
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
>> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>> 
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
>>   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
>> 
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
>> 
>>   Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Hello friends.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
>> description was:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
>> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head 
>> of hair. His 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[lenron brown]

Yeah um I am fine with the subjective descriptions. At least it gives
me an idea of what someones expression may be. I love knowing what
things look like, and even fine details if someone is very descriptive
when talking about something. I wish AI tools were built into more
things so I could take advantage of this.

On 11/14/23, Christopher Chaltain  wrote:
> Well, if you're just speaking for yourself then you have the option of just
> not using an AI tool that provides these suggestive opinions. If you don't
> think others should have the option of using these tools then all I'd say is
> that I appreciate these tools and the subjective descriptions. I know it's
> coming from an AI, and I feel that I'm mature enough not to be jaded by
> these descriptions. When I use Be My AI to have a picture my wife painted
> described to me, I like to hear things like "vibrant blue". Even if it said
> something like "amateurish," I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that my wife
> isn't a good painter. I use it as much for entertainment as I do for
> information. When I read alt text on an image, I appreciate it even though I
> know it was provided by someone I don't know and what their biases may be.
> As with most things, I think it's up to each person whether they choose to
> use such a tool or not.
>
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 8:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> John has hit the nail exactly on the head. I don’t want some anonymous AI
> programmed by God knows who with whatever dark algorithm that nobody knows
> about telling me what’s there and making subjective judgments about it. It’s
> just a bad idea. And there are plenty of examples in the news where there
> are misunderstandings across cultural and racial lines, and people have been
> killed for it. That black person was angry. They were threatening. Boom!
> Dead person. It’s just wrong.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 14, 2023, at 4:43 PM, realman02 via VIPhone
>>  wrote:
>>
>> My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not
>> want a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions
>> about people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for
>> human to human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who
>> knows what criteria the AI program used to generate its description?
>> John Riehl
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
>> Carolyn Arnold
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have
>> facial expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course,
>> expressions vary, but they are a part of a person's face.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> This is how I would rephrase the description:
>>
>>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and
>>> appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair.
>>> His eyes are partially closed.
>> His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored
>> polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right
>> side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold
>> thread.
>>
>> John
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
>> Carolyn Arnold
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones
>> of us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My
>> A I might say about our expression.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Christopher Chaltain
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are
>> getting at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using
>> and how that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI
>> generated descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a
>> description from another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't
>> going to be free of interpretation.
>>
>> Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a
>> greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and
>> wouldn't be subjective at 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Christopher Chaltain]

Well, if you're just speaking for yourself then you have the option of just not 
using an AI tool that provides these suggestive opinions. If you don't think 
others should have the option of using these tools then all I'd say is that I 
appreciate these tools and the subjective descriptions. I know it's coming from 
an AI, and I feel that I'm mature enough not to be jaded by these descriptions. 
When I use Be My AI to have a picture my wife painted described to me, I like 
to hear things like "vibrant blue". Even if it said something like 
"amateurish," I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that my wife isn't a good 
painter. I use it as much for entertainment as I do for information. When I 
read alt text on an image, I appreciate it even though I know it was provided 
by someone I don't know and what their biases may be. As with most things, I 
think it's up to each person whether they choose to use such a tool or not.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 8:21 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

John has hit the nail exactly on the head. I don’t want some anonymous AI 
programmed by God knows who with whatever dark algorithm that nobody knows 
about telling me what’s there and making subjective judgments about it. It’s 
just a bad idea. And there are plenty of examples in the news where there are 
misunderstandings across cultural and racial lines, and people have been killed 
for it. That black person was angry. They were threatening. Boom! Dead person. 
It’s just wrong.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2023, at 4:43 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not 
> want a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions 
> about people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for 
> human to human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who 
> knows what criteria the AI program used to generate its description?
> John Riehl
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Carolyn Arnold
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have 
> facial expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course, 
> expressions vary, but they are a part of a person's face.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> This is how I would rephrase the description:
>
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears 
>> to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are 
>> partially closed.
> His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo 
> shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of 
> his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread.
>
> John
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Carolyn Arnold
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
> us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
> might say about our expression.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting 
> at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how 
> that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
> descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
> another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
> interpretation.
>
> Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
> greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and 
> wouldn't be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky 
> yellow." We had a good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.
>
> For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
> from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
> find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
> sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the 
> more sterile 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Christopher Chaltain]

Ah, very good! I'd prefer the first description though since it also talks 
about build and the facial expression. I guess anything that touches on 
complexion, build or facial expression could get touchy though.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: realman02 via VIPhone 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:42 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This is how I would rephrase the description:

>The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears to 
>be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are 
>partially closed.
His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo 
shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his 
chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread.

John
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Mary Otten]

John has hit the nail exactly on the head. I don’t want some anonymous AI 
programmed by God knows who with whatever dark algorithm that nobody knows 
about telling me what’s there and making subjective judgments about it. It’s 
just a bad idea. And there are plenty of examples in the news where there are 
misunderstandings across cultural and racial lines, and people have been killed 
for it. That black person was angry. They were threatening. Boom! Dead person. 
It’s just wrong. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2023, at 4:43 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not 
> want a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions 
> about people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for 
> human to human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who 
> knows what criteria the AI program used to generate its description?
> John Riehl
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Carolyn Arnold
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have 
> facial expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course, 
> expressions vary, but they are a part of a person's face.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> This is how I would rephrase the description:
> 
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears 
>> to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are 
>> partially closed.
> His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo 
> shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of 
> his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread.
> 
> John
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Carolyn Arnold
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
> us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
> might say about our expression.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting 
> at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how 
> that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
> descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
> another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
> interpretation.
> 
> Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
> greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and 
> wouldn't be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky 
> yellow." We had a good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.
> 
> For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
> from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
> find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
> sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the 
> more sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find 
> the interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
> description.
> 
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
> is free not to use the service.
> Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
> which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
> correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
> desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
> Otten
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
> expression 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[MARILYN AND DON BILDERBACK]

Carolyn,  me too!  My husband describes all kinds of things as we drive or eat 
out in a restaurant.  He will do this without me asking and I love to know what 
is around me.  

Onetime while eating out with a friend in another state, Don mentioned that 
their were canoes attached to the ceiling in a Mexican food place that our 
friend goes to often.  She was astonished because in all the times she was 
there, no one ever told her about the décor. What good do these descriptions do 
for me as I can see nothing anymore?  The information makes me feel more a part 
of the world.  I was interested in stuff when I could see and still enjoy the 
explanations.   

Whatever a person wants or needs is the right thing for them.  Not all people 
would like what I like. What fun to know your mind works kinda like mine.  Lol

Marilyn 



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:55 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I asked Jim what he looked like, when we first started seeing each other. I 
want to know what color everything is, what kind of cars everyone drives, 
what's in style, all that sight stuff that I don't have now. I want to know 
what color the furniture is, what color the floor covering, cabinets and on and 
on. 

I guess what people look like too, and some of us laugh at my guesses. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
CJ & AA MAY
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:23 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

You may have a point here as I am interested to know what people look like and 
amsurprised when they turn out not to be at all like I'd imagined.
It troubles me a little to realise, as I write this, that I have no idea what 
my husband now looks like. If he went missing, there is very little I could say 
to help find him.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:20 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[realman02 via VIPhone]

My point -- and then I'll let this go and not comment -- is that I do not want 
a machine large language model providing me with subjective opinions about 
people, their expressions, etc. I think that should be reserved for human to 
human interaction. Who knows if the description is accurate? Who knows what 
criteria the AI program used to generate its description? 
John Riehl

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 7:06 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have facial 
expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course, expressions 
vary, but they are a part of a person's face. 

-Original Message-
From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This is how I would rephrase the description:

>The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears to 
>be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are 
>partially closed.
His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo 
shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his 
chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. 

John 
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

Only, that is not a complete description. Like it or not, all of us have facial 
expression, and that is a part of what we look like. Of course, expressions 
vary, but they are a part of a person's face. 

-Original Message-
From: realman02 via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:42 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

This is how I would rephrase the description:

>The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears to 
>be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are 
>partially closed.
His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo 
shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his 
chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. 

John 
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions The beauty is we 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[realman02 via VIPhone]

This is how I would rephrase the description:

>The man in the picture has a fair complexion. His hair is short and appears to 
>be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of hair. His eyes are 
>partially closed.
His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is wearing a dark-colored polo 
shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his 
chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. 

John 
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Dave Grossoehme]

Looks tells a lot of things.  Whether you are happy or sad.  If you are 
grinning they think you are laughting just for a few things.


Dave


On 11/12/2023 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt wrote:

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small embroidery 
on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with 
gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.


What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.
Malcolm Parfitt



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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

I asked Jim what he looked like, when we first started seeing each other. I 
want to know what color everything is, what kind of cars everyone drives, 
what's in style, all that sight stuff that I don't have now. I want to know 
what color the furniture is, what color the floor covering, cabinets and on and 
on. 

I guess what people look like too, and some of us laugh at my guesses. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
CJ & AA MAY
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:23 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

You may have a point here as I am interested to know what people look like and 
amsurprised when they turn out not to be at all like I'd imagined.
It troubles me a little to realise, as I write this, that I have no idea what 
my husband now looks like. If he went missing, there is very little I could say 
to help find him.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:20 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Chris Chaffin]

I have considered the same thing when it comes to not only my wife, but also 
both of my kids.  there is a couple of things you can do.

First, keep a picture of your husband on your phone and mark it as a favorite 
in your photos so it is easy to find.
Second, ask a couple of family members to give you a description of your 
husband.  You can make a note of it, and you can then add a brief description 
to your photo, so if you ever have to access that picture, a brief description 
will be with it.
Hopefully you will never need this info, but one last detail that will be asked 
is their height and weight.  So to know an estimate of those could also help.

Chris Chaffin


> On Nov 14, 2023, at 11:22 AM, CJ & AA MAY  wrote:
> 
> You may have a point here as I am interested to know what people look like 
> and amsurprised when they turn out not to be at all like I'd imagined.
> It troubles me a little to realise, as I write this, that I have no idea what 
> my husband now looks like. If he went missing, there is very little I could 
> say to help find him.
> Alison
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Carolyn Arnold
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:20 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
> us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
> might say about our expression. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting 
> at is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how 
> that might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
> descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
> another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
> interpretation.
> 
> Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
> greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and 
> wouldn't be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky 
> yellow." We had a good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.
> 
> For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
> from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
> find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
> sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the 
> more sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find 
> the interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
> description.
> 
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
> is free not to use the service.
> Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
> which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
> correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
> desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
> Otten
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
> expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as 
> a totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people 
> have asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re 
> supposed to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I 
> don’t trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on 
> who is making these glorious language models and facial expression models 
> etc.I don’t want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind 
> somebody else assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face 
> looks. I sure don’t want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not 
>> human-to-human interaction; it's a large language model that's making those 
>> judgements.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[CJ & AA MAY]

You may have a point here as I am interested to know what people look like and 
amsurprised when they turn out not to be at all like I'd imagined.
It troubles me a little to realise, as I write this, that I have no idea what 
my husband now looks like. If he went missing, there is very little I could say 
to help find him.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Carolyn 
Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:20 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

Well said, Alison. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
CJ & AA MAY
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 10:51 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

We live in a world where predominantly people have vision and, as a minority, 
it is up to us to adapt. 
Sighted people have mentioned to me how uncomfortable they feel when talking to 
a blind person who doesn't turn to face them when talking. 
A smile doesn't just indicate that you are happy, it is showing you are 
friendly and approachable, that you are grateful for help which is given, it is 
a silent acknowledgement.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:37 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

I agree with Sieghard. My guess, and this is only a guess is that the ones of 
us who have had some or full sight are more willing to hear what Be My A I 
might say about our expression. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:05 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
>
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>>
>> -Original 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

Try asking two or more sighted people how something looks, and odds are you 
will get two or more different answers. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Kellie
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out. 

Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Robert Doc Wright
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> What is wrong with the truth?
> 
>- Original Message - 
>From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
>This topic reminds me of these two articles.
> 
>Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
> 
>  
> 
>The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
> expressions by blind people: 
>  
> 
>Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
> 
>At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
> editorializing? 
> 
> 
> 
>Cristóbal
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
> 
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
> 
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
> 
>Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>Hello friends.
> 
> 
> 
>I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> 
> 
>However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
> description was:
> 
> 
> 
>The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> 
> 
>He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in 
> a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[CJ & AA MAY]

We live in a world where predominantly people have vision and, as a minority, 
it is up to us to adapt. 
Sighted people have mentioned to me how uncomfortable they feel when talking to 
a blind person who doesn't turn to face them when talking. 
A smile doesn't just indicate that you are happy, it is showing you are 
friendly and approachable, that you are grateful for help which is given, it is 
a silent acknowledgement.
Alison


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:37 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>   To: 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[CJ & AA MAY]

I'd agree here one hundred percent. One description of my dog was "soulful 
eyes" and every single person I have mentioned this too has agreed.
Alison
 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 4:13 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Christopher Chaltain]

I would agree with Sieghard, but I suspect what Mary and others are getting at 
is not what they choose to use or not but what others are using and how that 
might affect how they interpret the world based on those AI generated 
descriptions. As Mary says though, anytime you're getting a description from 
another source, even if it's a sighted person, it isn't going to be free of 
interpretation.

Reminds me of a friend of mine in college who was helping me pick out a 
greeting card. She told me she would just describe the card to me and wouldn't 
be subjective at all. Later on she described a card as "yucky yellow." We had a 
good laugh over that, but I didn't get that card.

For those who don't want any kind of interpretation of a description coming 
from an AI, I wonder what they would consider an acceptable description. I'd 
find it interesting if someone took a response from Be My AI and then 
sterilized it into what they would find acceptable. I'm guessing that the more 
sterile descriptions wouldn't be nearly as popular and most people find the 
interpretation of the image as one of the more interesting parts of the 
description.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:13 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
>
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
>
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>>
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>>
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz 
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Evan Reese]

Well I did some Googling on whether facial expressions are universal, 
and here's a good article about that:



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/darwin-was-wrong-your-facial-expressions-do-not-reveal-your-emotions/


Turns out that those AI interpretations are not necessarily reliable.

But it is also true that the interpretations of sighted people may not 
be reliable either.


Evan


On 11/13/2023 10:36 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
wrote:

Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out.

Kellie and my lovable Lady J
Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we could 
- hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Robert Doc Wright
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What is wrong with the truth?

   - Original Message -
   From: Cristóbal Muñoz 
   To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?


   This topic reminds me of these two articles.

   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 


   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions by 
blind people: 

   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in 
my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?



   Cristóbal



   -Original Message-
   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



   What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.





   -Original Message-

   From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of Malcolm 
Parfitt

   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

   

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Anybody who does not like or agree with some of the interpretations of the AI 
is free not to use the service.
Just as you may not appreciate it, I have so far felt that even descriptions 
which included descriptions of facial expressions were actually amazingly 
correct when I asked sighted people to tell me what they thought of the 
desdcription and whether they agtreed that the interpretation was good or not.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>   

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Then next time don’t hold your coffee beans with your hairy arm 藍


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Cristóbal Muñoz
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 1:09 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?


This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and 
shame

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions 
by blind people:

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used it 
to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I held 
the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in my 
right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, region 
where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I wouldn’t 
gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the bag 
was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?



Cristóbal



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.





-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



Hello friends.



I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.



However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:



The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.



He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.



The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.





What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.



The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?



Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?



Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.



Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt



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If you have any questions or 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[danneyyates]

I'm loving the artificial intelligence breakthroughs.  As for our facial  
expressions, look at it this way, it is mostly a sighted world and most of our 
light dependent friends equate smiles and attentive facial expressions in a 
favorable way; regardless of the culture from which we hail.  Find a person you 
trust and get a little coaching if you aren't clear about it.  I had vision 
until around age 19 and recall the difference in how a person came across when 
they didn't smile, as appropriate.  
Dan

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Mary 
Otten
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 10:37 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Mary Otten]

I do not want to know what some artificial intelligence thinks somebody’s 
expression means. Cultural stuff hugely influences that sort of thing. And as a 
totally blind person from birth, I can’t tell you how many times people have 
asked me why are you angry? Because I’m not smiling. Apparently you’re supposed 
to go around smiling all the time especially if you’re a woman. So I don’t 
trust AI male centric and Eurocentric as it must obviously be, based on who is 
making these glorious language models and facial expression models etc.I don’t 
want it. I want human to human interaction, and never mind somebody else 
assuming they know what I’m thinking because of how my face looks. I sure don’t 
want to inflict that misunderstanding on somebody else.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 6:49 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
> interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because 
> an artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have 
> to believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have 
> deductive reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, 
> if you’re totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through 
> hearsay whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re 
> still going by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. 
> Every single thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or 
> interpretation of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every 
> description is suspect since no two people are going to take away the same 
> thing. That’s why it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence 
> Gives an answer that isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my 
> reasoning to figure it out.
> 
> Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
>> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Robert Doc Wright
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> What is wrong with the truth?
>> 
>>   - Original Message -
>>   From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>>   This topic reminds me of these two articles.
>> 
>>   Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
>> 
>> 
>>   The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
>> expressions by blind people: 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
>> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
>> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
>> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
>> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
>> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…
>> 
>>   At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
>> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
>> editorializing?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Cristóbal
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>   Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
>> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -Original Message-
>> 
>>   From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
>>   Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
>> 
>>   To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>>   Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Hello friends.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   I appreciate that 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[realman02 via VIPhone]

Good points, Kelly. The reason it bothers me is that it's not human-to-human 
interaction; it's a large language model that's making those judgements. 



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kellie
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 9:21 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out. 

Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Robert Doc Wright
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> What is wrong with the truth?
> 
>- Original Message - 
>From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
>This topic reminds me of these two articles.
> 
>Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
> 
>  
> 
>The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
> expressions by blind people: 
>  
> 
>Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
> 
>At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
> editorializing? 
> 
> 
> 
>Cristóbal
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
> 
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
> 
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
> 
>Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>Hello friends.
> 
> 
> 
>I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> 
> 
>However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
> description was:
> 
> 
> 
>The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> 
> 
>He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in 
> a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Kellie]

I think the other thing that people need to keep in mind, it’s just because an 
artificial intelligence says that’s your expression doesn’t mean you have to 
believe it. You can ask follow-up questions. The beauty is we have deductive 
reasoning and can make that determination with further input. Also, if you’re 
totally blind, every input of an expression is going to be through hearsay 
whether it’s artificial intelligence or another human being. You’re still going 
by their interpretation of the expression, not your own judgment. Every single 
thing that is described to us is through someone else’s eyes or interpretation 
of what they visually perceive it to be. That means, every description is 
suspect since no two people are going to take away the same thing. That’s why 
it doesn’t really bother me if the artificial intelligence Gives an answer that 
isn’t maybe how I’m feeling or etc. because I can use my reasoning to figure it 
out. 

Kellie and my lovable Lady J  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2023, at 7:26 PM, Carolyn Arnold <2carolynarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we 
> could - hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Robert Doc Wright
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> What is wrong with the truth?
> 
>- Original Message - 
>From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
>This topic reminds me of these two articles.
> 
>Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 
> 
>  
> 
>The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
> expressions by blind people: 
>  
> 
>Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
> it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
> held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
> in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
> region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
> wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
> 
>At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
> bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
> editorializing? 
> 
> 
> 
>Cristóbal
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
> as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
> 
>From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
>Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
> 
>To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
> 
>Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> 
> 
>Hello friends.
> 
> 
> 
>I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> 
> 
>However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
> description was:
> 
> 
> 
>The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
> is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> 
> 
>He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
> small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in 
> a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
> 
> 
> 
>The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a 
> sighted person looking 

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Carolyn Arnold]

I agree with that. The Be my A I is just telling us what we'd see, if we could 
- hairy arm; stern expression. I would want it to tell me what it sees. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Robert Doc Wright
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:50 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

What is wrong with the truth?

- Original Message - 
From: Cristóbal Muñoz   
To: viphone@googlegroups.com   
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?


This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 

 

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
expressions by blind people: 
 

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I 
used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. 
I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that 
the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing? 

 

Cristóbal

 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

 

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described 
you as "serious" because you weren't smiling.

 

 

-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com  

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

 

Hello friends.

 

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no 
idea what I look like.

 

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently 
when we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
description was:

 

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His 
hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head 
of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

 

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

 

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

 

 

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a 
sighted person looking in a mirror.

 

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I 
had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s 
description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

 

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

 

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

 

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most 
interested in your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

 

-- 

The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
list.

 

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

 

Your V iPhone list moderator is 

Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[alban hoxha]

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Malcolm 
Parfitt 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 1:08:41 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Well I’m interested to learn that I am not the only one here that roasts his 
own coffee!  I have done so for around 20 years.

Welcome to the club.

Here in the UK I buy from hasbean.
Malcolm Parfitt

On 13 Nov 2023, at 22:05, Cristobal Munoz  wrote:


Good one…

On Nov 13, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Robert Doc Wright  
wrote:


What is wrong with the truth?
- Original Message -
From: Cristóbal Muñoz
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?


This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and 
shame

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions 
by blind people:

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used it 
to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I held 
the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in my 
right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, region 
where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I wouldn’t 
gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the bag 
was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?



Cristóbal



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.





-Original Message-

From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To: viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



Hello friends.



I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.



However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:



The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.



He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.



The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.





What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.



The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?



Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?



Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.



Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt



--

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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Malcolm Parfitt]

Well I’m interested to learn that I am not the only one here that roasts his own coffee!  I have done so for around 20 years.Welcome to the club.Here in the UK I buy from hasbean.Malcolm ParfittOn 13 Nov 2023, at 22:05, Cristobal Munoz  wrote:Good one… On Nov 13, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Robert Doc Wright  wrote:






What is wrong with the truth?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Cristóbal Muñoz 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may 
  teach us?
  
  
  This topic reminds me of these two 
  articles.
  Blind 
  Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and 
  shame
  The role of 
  visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions by blind 
  people:
  Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The 
  other day, I used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I 
  wanted to roast. I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the 
  picture with my iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description 
  of the type of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch 
  of other info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
  
  At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes 
  also wrote that the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! 
  What’s up with the editorializing? 
   
  Cristóbal
   
  -Original Message-From: 
  viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
  Sieghard WeitzelSent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PMTo: 
  viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach 
us?
   
  What did your friend say about your _expression_? I assume 
  it described you as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
   
   
  -Original Message-
  From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
   
  On Behalf Of Malcolm Parfitt
  Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach 
  us?
   
  Hello friends.
   
  I appreciate that none of you know me personally and 
  like me have no idea what I look like.
   
  However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture 
  of me recently when we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very 
  interested in the results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the 
  photo.  It’s description was:
   
  The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a 
  sturdy build. His hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and 
  he has a full head of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a 
  somewhat stern or serious _expression_ on his face. His nose is prominent and he 
  has full lips. He is clean-shaven.
   
  He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. 
  The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads 
  "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of 
  a comfortable fit.
   
  The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making 
  him the central element of the image. There is no additional information 
  provided about the man, such as his name or what he is doing in the 
  pub.
   
   
  What interested me most is that this is the closest we 
  can get to a sighted person looking in a mirror.
   
  The other thing that struck me was the description of my 
  _expression_.  I had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly 
  thought are expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions 
  mirror those of sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and 
  if Be My AI’s description of my _expression_ was accurate then why would I look 
  serious?
   
  Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted 
  people’s do?
   
  Not really an Apple question admittedly but an 
  interesting subject.
   
  Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would 
  be most interested in your opinions.
  Malcolm Parfitt
   
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  of the V iPhone list.
   
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Cristobal Munoz]

Good one… On Nov 13, 2023, at 1:49 PM, Robert Doc Wright  wrote:






What is wrong with the truth?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Cristóbal Muñoz 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may 
  teach us?
  
  
  This topic reminds me of these two 
  articles.
  Blind 
  Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and 
  shame
  The role of 
  visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions by blind 
  people:
  Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The 
  other day, I used it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I 
  wanted to roast. I held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the 
  picture with my iPhone in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description 
  of the type of bean, region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch 
  of other info I wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 
  
  At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes 
  also wrote that the bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! 
  What’s up with the editorializing? 
   
  Cristóbal
   
  -Original Message-From: 
  viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
  Sieghard WeitzelSent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PMTo: 
  viphone@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach 
us?
   
  What did your friend say about your _expression_? I assume 
  it described you as "serious" because you weren't smiling.
   
   
  -Original Message-
  From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
   
  On Behalf Of Malcolm Parfitt
  Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach 
  us?
   
  Hello friends.
   
  I appreciate that none of you know me personally and 
  like me have no idea what I look like.
   
  However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture 
  of me recently when we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very 
  interested in the results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the 
  photo.  It’s description was:
   
  The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a 
  sturdy build. His hair is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and 
  he has a full head of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a 
  somewhat stern or serious _expression_ on his face. His nose is prominent and he 
  has full lips. He is clean-shaven.
   
  He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. 
  The shirt has a small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads 
  "Samuel Smith" in a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of 
  a comfortable fit.
   
  The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making 
  him the central element of the image. There is no additional information 
  provided about the man, such as his name or what he is doing in the 
  pub.
   
   
  What interested me most is that this is the closest we 
  can get to a sighted person looking in a mirror.
   
  The other thing that struck me was the description of my 
  _expression_.  I had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly 
  thought are expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions 
  mirror those of sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and 
  if Be My AI’s description of my _expression_ was accurate then why would I look 
  serious?
   
  Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted 
  people’s do?
   
  Not really an Apple question admittedly but an 
  interesting subject.
   
  Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would 
  be most interested in your opinions.
  Malcolm Parfitt
   
  -- 
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  of the V iPhone list.
   
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Robert Doc Wright]

What is wrong with the truth?
  - Original Message - 
  From: Cristóbal Muñoz
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 2:09 PM
  Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?


  This topic reminds me of these two articles.

  Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame

  The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial 
expressions by blind people:

  Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used 
it to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I 
held the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone 
in my right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, 
region where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I 
wouldn’t gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool…

  At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the 
bag was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing?



  Cristóbal



  -Original Message-
  From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com
  Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



  What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you 
as "serious" because you weren't smiling.





  -Original Message-

  From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

  Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

  To: viphone@googlegroups.com

  Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?



  Hello friends.



  I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
what I look like.



  However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
description was:



  The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair 
is short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head 
of hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or 
serious expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. 
He is clean-shaven.



  He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a 
small embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in 
a cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable 
fit.



  The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.





  What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a 
sighted person looking in a mirror.



  The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I 
had never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s 
description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?



  Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?



  Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.



  Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
in your opinions.

  Malcolm Parfitt



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if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com



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  http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/

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  The archives for this list can be searched at:

  

RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Cristóbal Muñoz]

This topic reminds me of these two articles.

Blind Olympic athletes show the universal nature of pride and shame 

 

The role of visual experience in the production of emotional facial expressions 
by blind people:  

Sometimes, BeMyEyes descriptions aren’t appreciated. The other day, I used it 
to snap a photo of a bag of green coffee beans that I wanted to roast. I held 
the bag of beans in my left hand and snapped the picture with my iPhone in my 
right hand. BeMyEyes came back with a description of the type of bean, region 
where they were grown, altitude and a whole bunch of other info I wouldn’t 
gotten if I tried using SeeingAI. Cool cool… 

At the end of the very detailed description, BeMyEyes also wrote that the bag 
was being held by someone with a harry arm. WTH! What’s up with the 
editorializing? 

 

Cristóbal

 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 12:31 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

 

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.

 

 

-Original Message-

From:   viphone@googlegroups.com < 
 viphone@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of 
Malcolm Parfitt

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM

To:   viphone@googlegroups.com

Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

 

Hello friends.

 

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

 

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

 

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

 

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

 

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.

 

 

What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

 

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

 

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

 

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

 

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.

Malcolm Parfitt

 

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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Sieghard Weitzel]

What did your friend say about your expression? I assume it described you as 
"serious" because you weren't smiling.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Malcolm 
Parfitt
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 4:52 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

Hello friends.

I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea what 
I look like.

However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:

The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
clean-shaven.

He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.

The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
as his name or what he is doing in the pub.


What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
person looking in a mirror.

The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted people. 
 I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of my 
expression was accurate then why would I look serious?

Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?

Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.

Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
your opinions.
Malcolm Parfitt

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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Diane Giannetti]

I never really did think about that, but that is an interesting question for 
sure that is quite interesting and I think it’s amazing how this really can 
work now it gives really good descriptions and I think that’s pretty cool
Sent from Diane's awesome iPhone!

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 9:39 PM, realman02 via VIPhone  
> wrote:
> 
> This description is a great example of  what really disturbs me about these 
> AI descriptions of images.
> "His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face."
> 
> I'm not even mentioning the "appears to be of a comfortable fit " about the 
> shirt.
> Chat GPT or Open AI or whatever are comparing the picture to images of 
> thousands of other images it has in its data base and making a "judgement" 
> based on that comparison.
> A machine, based on this comparison, is telling you have a stern or serious 
> expression.   That's it. It in no way resembles a sighted person looking in a 
> mirror.
> I wish with all my heart we could get Be My Eyes to ban these subjective 
> so-called judgements.
> 
> John Riehl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Brandon Olivares
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 9:29 PM
> To: VIPhone 
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is 
> it closed to beta users still? I’ve been wanting to try it.
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends.
>> 
>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>> 
>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s 
>> description was:
>> 
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
>> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
>> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
>> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
>> clean-shaven.
>> 
>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
>> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
>> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>> 
>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>> 
>> 
>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
>> person looking in a mirror.
>> 
>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
>> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
>> sighted people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s 
>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>> 
>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?
>> 
>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>> 
>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
>> in your opinions.
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
>> --
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Diane Giannetti]

I never really did give it any thought about that. Meaning the expressions. 
It’s just something I never thought of. But quite interesting for sure. 
However, I think it’s pretty cool with the descriptions. Really really neat. I 
haven’t played too much with it, but just reading you guys and what you’re 
saying I’m going to have to pay more attention to it. Expressions quite 
interesting, never thought about that, or gave it even enough of a thought. 
Lol. Now I do. 
Sent from Diane's awesome iPhone!

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Christopher Chaltain  
> wrote:
> 
> Be My AI is a tab in the Be My Eyes app. It's free and no longer in beta.
> 
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Brandon Olivares
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 8:29 PM
> To: VIPhone 
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is 
> it closed to beta users still? I've been wanting to try it.
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends.
>> 
>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>> 
>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It's 
>> description was:
>> 
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
>> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
>> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
>> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
>> clean-shaven.
>> 
>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
>> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
>> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>> 
>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>> 
>> 
>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
>> person looking in a mirror.
>> 
>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
>> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
>> sighted people.  I didn't feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI's 
>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>> 
>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people's do?
>> 
>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>> 
>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
>> in your opinions.
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
>> --
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[alban hoxha]

'a'a


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  on behalf of The Evil 
Chocolate Cookie 
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 3:58:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

That’s the one thing I’m going to miss during my android transition process 
because who knows when we are going to get it. That service is incredible.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Christopher Chaltain  
> wrote:
>
> Be My AI is a tab in the Be My Eyes app. It's free and no longer in beta.
>
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Brandon Olivares
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 8:29 PM
> To: VIPhone 
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
>
> That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is 
> it closed to beta users still? I've been wanting to try it.
>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>>
>> Hello friends.
>>
>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>>
>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It's 
>> description was:
>>
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
>> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
>> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
>> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
>> clean-shaven.
>>
>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
>> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
>> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>>
>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>>
>>
>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
>> person looking in a mirror.
>>
>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
>> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
>> sighted people.  I didn't feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI's 
>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>>
>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people's do?
>>
>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>>
>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
>> in your opinions.
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
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>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
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>
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[The Evil Chocolate Cookie]

That’s the one thing I’m going to miss during my android transition process 
because who knows when we are going to get it. That service is incredible.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Christopher Chaltain  
> wrote:
> 
> Be My AI is a tab in the Be My Eyes app. It's free and no longer in beta.
> 
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
> Chaltain at Outlook, USA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Brandon Olivares
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 8:29 PM
> To: VIPhone 
> Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?
> 
> That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is 
> it closed to beta users still? I've been wanting to try it.
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello friends.
>> 
>> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
>> what I look like.
>> 
>> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when 
>> we were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the 
>> results I obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It's 
>> description was:
>> 
>> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
>> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
>> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
>> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
>> clean-shaven.
>> 
>> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
>> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
>> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>> 
>> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central 
>> element of the image. There is no additional information provided about the 
>> man, such as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>> 
>> 
>> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
>> person looking in a mirror.
>> 
>> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
>> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are 
>> expressions learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of 
>> sighted people.  I didn't feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI's 
>> description of my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>> 
>> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people's do?
>> 
>> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>> 
>> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested 
>> in your opinions.
>> Malcolm Parfitt
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Christopher Chaltain]

Be My AI is a tab in the Be My Eyes app. It's free and no longer in beta.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Brandon 
Olivares
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 8:29 PM
To: VIPhone 
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is it 
closed to beta users still? I've been wanting to try it.

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>
> Hello friends.
>
> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
>
> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
> were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
> obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It's description was:
>
> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
>
> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>
> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
> of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
> as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>
>
> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
> person looking in a mirror.
>
> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
> learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted 
> people.  I didn't feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI's description of 
> my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>
> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people's do?
>
> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>
> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
> your opinions.
> Malcolm Parfitt
>
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RE: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[realman02 via VIPhone]

This description is a great example of  what really disturbs me about these AI 
descriptions of images. 
"His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
expression on his face."

I'm not even mentioning the "appears to be of a comfortable fit " about the 
shirt. 
Chat GPT or Open AI or whatever are comparing the picture to images of 
thousands of other images it has in its data base and making a "judgement" 
based on that comparison. 
A machine, based on this comparison, is telling you have a stern or serious 
expression.   That's it. It in no way resembles a sighted person looking in a 
mirror. 
I wish with all my heart we could get Be My Eyes to ban these subjective 
so-called judgements. 

John Riehl
 
 


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Brandon 
Olivares
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 9:29 PM
To: VIPhone 
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is it 
closed to beta users still? I’ve been wanting to try it.

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
> 
> Hello friends.
> 
> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
> were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
> obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:
> 
> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
> 
> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
> of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
> as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
> 
> 
> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
> person looking in a mirror.
> 
> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
> learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted 
> people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of 
> my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
> 
> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?
> 
> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
> 
> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
> your opinions.
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
> -- 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[alban hoxha]

be my aies free?

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Brandon 
Olivares 
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 3:28:42 AM
To: VIPhone 
Subject: Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is it 
closed to beta users still? I’ve been wanting to try it.

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
>
> Hello friends.
>
> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
>
> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
> were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
> obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:
>
> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
>
> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
>
> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
> of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
> as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
>
>
> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
> person looking in a mirror.
>
> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
> learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted 
> people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of 
> my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
>
> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?
>
> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
>
> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
> your opinions.
> Malcolm Parfitt
>
> --
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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Re: Be My AI and what it may teach us?

[Brandon Olivares]

That is really cool. Is there any way for me to get access to Be My AI or is it 
closed to beta users still? I’ve been wanting to try it.

> On Nov 12, 2023, at 7:52 PM, Malcolm Parfitt  wrote:
> 
> Hello friends.
> 
> I appreciate that none of you know me personally and like me have no idea 
> what I look like.
> 
> However, at my request a friend of mine took a picture of me recently when we 
> were in what we call in the UK a pub.  I was very interested in the results I 
> obtained when asking Be My AI to describe the photo.  It’s description was:
> 
> The man in the picture has a fair complexion and a sturdy build. His hair is 
> short and appears to be a mix of gray and black, and he has a full head of 
> hair. His eyes are partially closed, and he has a somewhat stern or serious 
> expression on his face. His nose is prominent and he has full lips. He is 
> clean-shaven.
> 
> He is wearing a dark-colored polo shirt with a collar. The shirt has a small 
> embroidery on the right side of his chest that reads "Samuel Smith" in a 
> cursive font with gold thread. The shirt appears to be of a comfortable fit.
> 
> The lighting in the picture is focused on him, making him the central element 
> of the image. There is no additional information provided about the man, such 
> as his name or what he is doing in the pub.
> 
> 
> What interested me most is that this is the closest we can get to a sighted 
> person looking in a mirror.
> 
> The other thing that struck me was the description of my expression.  I had 
> never really thought about expressions but I suddenly thought are expressions 
> learned or natural.  How far do our expressions mirror those of sighted 
> people.  I didn’t feel serious at the time, and if Be My AI’s description of 
> my expression was accurate then why would I look serious?
> 
> Do our expressions really express our mood as sighted people’s do?
> 
> Not really an Apple question admittedly but an interesting subject.
> 
> Apologies in advance for the off-topic post but I would be most interested in 
> your opinions.
> Malcolm Parfitt
> 
> -- 
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