Note that after a big start, Miley project is being caught by competitors,
and may be soon overtaken.
I don't know if it will be useful, but sure soon it won't be at all.
2013/3/5 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
http://futureenergy.ultralightstartups.com/campaign/detail/861
10 days
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:01 AM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
the CF film that is hard to find is Bullseye (with Michael Caine and Roger
Moore)
Cool.
You can own it in the Amazon cloud for ten bucks:
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:36:16 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
How do you know this?
Because they contacted me by private email, and I suggested that they look at
Keely's work. That's where the idea in the film, of using sound as the key to
success, came from.
The film did not
. D2
From: mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10
days.. hurry up
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 08:26:48 +1100
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:36:16 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
How do you know
I understand well the skepticism of many on Miley.
As far as I know Miley have no validated reactor. He has a rational
project, which can be written on the back of a Post-it. The image is an
artistic vision, which I hope is not the final engineering result.
However I deeply disagree with the
Jed wrote.
/The scientific establishment is an abstraction. It is not a real body.
There is no single group constituting that establishment that meets in a
building somewhere, like a Congress, and reaches unanimous conclusions.
Even if a majority of scientists remain unconvinced by a good
a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:
Cnsider DoE's response. Their official policy is not to support LENR.
My point is that we do not need them. If someone would do a convincing demo
we would get plenty of money from private sources.
I think you underestimate the group think of
Jed is right, there is no committee that decide of truths.
Just network of interest where committee and leaders are super-nodes,
because they can drown the other in pits of stupidity without the other
having any chance to survive...
so better to follow happily and die, rather than oppose and die.
confident that he will learn
from the attempt itself. To ask for any more at this time is not realistic.
From: alain.sep...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:15:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
I
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
that is how delusion wins. note that initially it is a rational opinion,
but with time it became a delusion because people are too much committed in
an error . . .
Delusion does not always win. Not everyone goes along with the DoE,
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Many think you can take a great leap from a small experiment to some grand
system.
Yes. That is a bad idea. This is very important point!
(Rossi has tried that but I am afraid it will not end well for him.)
Apparently he tried and succeeded. As
the attempt itself. To ask for any
more at this time is not realistic.
--
From: alain.sep...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:15:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10
days.. hurry up
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
I understand
Let me add a correction to this this thread. I recall now that Arata used a
thermoelectric chip and small motor used to focus a camera lens. That is
bigger than an analog wristwatch motor. Still, it was not a good
demonstration because it takes such a small amount of power. That leaves
room for
if George will get his grant or be successful if he
does. However, I am confident that he will learn from the attempt
itself. To ask for any more at this time is not realistic.
From: alain.sep...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:15:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded
more at this time is not realistic.
--
From: alain.sep...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:15:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10
days.. hurry up
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
I understand well the skepticism of many
Isn't it an amazing thing - being forced to judge irrationality? It sounds
like an oxymoron or paradox.
Columbus discovered the West Indies and history lurched forward, regardless
of inaccuracy. I see Rossi and the attention he's brought to the subject the
same way. Fake in one way, real in
Chris, Rossi has produced real power using LENR. The only question is
whether he can use this to make a commercial product that is reliable
and meets a commercial need. Rossi is not a fake because the energy
is real. Unfortunately, he is very poor at public relations and has
very little
-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
...
I prefer
to try to take only a step of a factor of 10 or so with the LENR part . .
.Where would that bring you in terms of power, temperature and power density?
- Jed
for specifics. (But it will likely be
ignored like my high temp
metal/gas was at DC).
Dennis
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:00:56 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for
for 10 days.. hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
...
I prefer
.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:07 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
The current system I am working off of is at 0.25 to 1 W
@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:07 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10
days.. hurry up
The current system I am working off of is at 0.25 to 1 W with no input.
This is with about 25 grams
of sample (density about 3 gm/ml - metal in C
to help)
Dennis
CC: stor...@ix.netcom.com
From: stor...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:13:48 -0700
Dennis, the CMNS group is the proper forum. Would you explain what you
? This question requires a theory to answer. Do
you have an answer?
Ed
Dennis
CC: stor...@ix.netcom.com
From: stor...@ix.netcom.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for
for 10 days.. hurry up
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:13:48 -0700
Dennis
]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10
days.. hurry up
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:13:48 -0700
Dennis, the CMNS group is the proper forum. Would you explain what you are
proposing there?
Ed
Excuse me Ed, for mixing in, a small answer to the Big Question:
- because the number
20 years is not possible.
It will be in 2 years if industrialist get faster than naysayers.
It will be 5 years in China at most (if not tomorrow).
And if it gets back into the drawer, I will make it in 10 years in
Indonesia.
It cannot be 20 years, the devil is out of the box.
Of course science,
with tensors in General Rel.- my true love- OT ).
Dennis
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:19:09 +0200
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: peter.gl...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
The big question is WHY is this effect so difficult
I don't understand why a partner would be kept with a secret identity.
Anyone can say, I have a large US partner. I'm not saying he doesn't
have one, I'm just saying it is curious.
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 12:37 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:
Ed,
I sure looks like Rossi has
Ed,
I sure looks like Rossi has produced real power.Not clear why you think
he is bad at business.He has apparently allied himself with a large US
company capable of producing thousands of reactors per day yet not
causing sufficient excitement to stimulate much competition.We just have
to
, Mar 6, 2013 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
Infinite.
He said The current system I am working off of is at 0.25 to 1 W with no input
That's .25W/0W at minimum.
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 10:14 AM, David Roberson dlrober
, but they were not well controlled as far as is known.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:47 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
CMNS started
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
The current system I am working off of is at 0.25 to 1 W with no input.
This is with about 25 grams
of sample (density about 3 gm/ml - metal in C). This is in a heavy metal
sphere with gas pressure
generated in situ and sealed. The temperature is near
wish to know that a seebeck
is nothing but a bunch of thermoelectric chips and a volt meter (of no real
load). Having stimulation or not depends on what you what to study.
Dennis
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:10:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days
Because if it became known he had an agreement with a large, well know
company (like GE) it would be strong confirmation that the E-Cat
worked. This would highly stimulate competition. It could all be
fraud, but I don't think so.
Adrian Ashfield
On 3/6/2013 1:44 PM, Jack Cole wrote:
I
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Jed -interesting comment- As I have told you before I have a seebeck that
is roughly 8 times as sensitive (based on V/watts) as Ed's and was made for
a series of NRL experiments.
That would be okay. But I think people might appreciate an instrument
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
A properly designed Seebeck is a lot more than that.
With an infinite COP all that's necessary is a room with a bunch of similar
pots of water, one of which has the infinite COP device in it.
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
A properly designed Seebeck is a lot more than that.
With an infinite COP all that's necessary is a room with a bunch of
similar pots of water, one of which has the infinite COP device in it.
With only one watt I do not think that would work well.
Hmm perhaps but one would think that if the water containers were
covered Styrofoam coolers, the temperature differences might accumulate
sufficiently to render the signal -- particularly given the distribution
represented by the numerous control containers -- quite significant.
Admittedly, I
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Hmm perhaps but one would think that if the water containers were
covered Styrofoam coolers, the temperature differences might accumulate
sufficiently to render the signal . . .
At that point you are talking about an isoperibolic calorimeter. You
Quick arithmetic:
1m^2*.033W/(m*deltaK)*2deltaK/2in?W http://www.testardi.com/rich/calchemy2/
([{(1 * [meter^2]) * (0.033 * watt)} / {meter * deltaK}] * [2 *
deltaK]) / (2 * inch) ? watt
= 1.2992126 W
That's for styrofoam 2 inches thick and a cooler with total surface
area of 1m^2 and a 2
something new.
DennisDate: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:43:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Jed -interesting comment- As I have
told you before I have
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:00:12 -0500
..
...
Can I assume that you have a nickel-hydrogen type arrangement?
Dave
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
For a while I was mistakenly given only a short time to live due to nano
powder complications.
Maybe next time it will not be a false alarm. All the more reason to get on
with the work quickly. Why do all this work and then take it to the grave
with you,
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
And that nano Ni leaks through valves, chews up your pumps, clogs your
gauges, suspends in the air for days, and messes with your lungs.
(at one time they diagnosed me with pulmonary hypertension… not good)
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why I
I see no point to doing research and then not publishing it. It is like
cooking a meal and not eating it, or building houses and then burning them
down. Okay, I will grant that research is fun, but without the consummation
of sharing your results it seems like ashes in the mouth. A waste of life.
I KNOW that some old-fashion industry executive accept to speak on LENR...
Provided it stays private.
I think it is easier to have business with Cuba or Iran, than to invest in
cold fusion.
as I said earlier, LENR will get commercial... but it can be blocked in
(still) rich countries, by
OK that quick guess arithmetic was interesting enough to motivate me to
look into the real numbers:
http://www.mrboxonline.com/8x6x7-styrofoam-coolers-p-6787.html
10 of those cost $55.50
They're 1.5in thick
They're 8x6x7 inside
They're 9.5x7.5x8.5 outside
Surface area
and assigning motives to me that are not my own.
Dennis
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:54:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
For a while I was mistakenly
If you restrict research in this area to only large well funded groups, then
there would be little left. D2
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:58:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
If you restrict research in this area to only large well funded groups,
then there would be little left.
You misunderstand. My idea is to get funding for existing groups, before
you accidentally kill yourselves.
I suspect Ohmori killed himself by doing
You may want to look at aerogel insulationSearch ebay for aspen aerogel
insulation or the pourable kind from United Nuclear if you just want to have a
hot sample without the water heating. D2 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:50:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote
-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 3:43 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
Incorrectassumption.
I have notbeen too successful with Ni H gas systems.
And thatnano Ni leaks
insulation
Search ebay for aspen aerogel insulation
or the pourable kind from United Nuclear if you just want to have a hot
sample without the water heating.
D2
--
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:50:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote
. more fractional microns
than a few nano) (yes, that piece of info was shared at the Navy Monterey
meeting). People actually doing the experiments should know. D2
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: dlrober
not really any fabricating the stuff (aspen kind) comes in mats and the
United Nuclear is a pourable grain. It work well. D2
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:12:15 -0600
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jabow...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
In the wisdom of your years, how would you advise a lucky researcher who
has discovered the foundations of the LENR process to avoid the pitfalls of
others in the past?
I recommend they do what good scientists have always done, and what people
such as
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 5 Mar 2013 15:48:28 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
Speaking of staged drama, there is always the message of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_Reaction_%28film%29
The script writer for this film is, or at least used to be, a lurker on Vortex.
:)
Regards,
Robin van
How do you know this? The film did not get good reviews (like LENR) but
still seems to have grossed over $60,000,000... warped priorities, it would
seem. Had that sum gone into the technology, we might be seeing life
imitating art.
We're definitely in the wrong business - if access to funds is
the CF film that is hard to find is Bullseye (with Michael Caine and Roger
Moore) D2
From: jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10
days.. hurry up
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:36:16 -0800
How do you know
Why?
I have highly competent, multigenerational engineering contacts at the
University of Illinois at C/U. Can they get a demonstration without being
drawn into a waste of time?
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
If he does not have the technology, he can license it, the value added is
the CHP configuration.
The worst risk is that it works.
2013/3/5 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com
Why?
I have highly competent, multigenerational engineering contacts at the
University of Illinois at C/U. Can they get
Forgive me, but this idea has no value. The design proposes to use a
slug of powder to create a high temperature that is converted to
electric power that drives a motor that drives a fan. No provision is
made for control of temperature, stimulation of the LENR reaction, or
efficient
From: Edmund Storms
* [snip] motor that drives a fan. No provision is made for control of
temperature .
Wait a minute. Why doesn't the airflow from the fan control the temperature
by removing heat from the fins which are themselves heated by the TEG ?
Are you complaining that
I'm complaining because any use of LENR will have to take much more
into account than this very simplified designed describes. What value
does this design have? It is a obvious engineering solution to
removing heat from a source. It does not solve the basic problem that
prevents LENR from
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
I'm complaining because any use of LENR will have to take much more into
account than this very simplified designed describes. What value does this
design have? It is a obvious engineering solution to removing heat from a
source. It does not solve
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
If you can prove the cold fusion device produces heat, you best do that by
the simplest means, which is calorimetry.
Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy that keeps saying the best proof is a
self running machine?
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy that keeps saying the best proof is a
self running machine? Closed loop?
Oh yeah. Sure, if you can pull that off on a reasonably large scale. But a
small toy-like device would not be convincing because a battery can
and tolerant and let him
travel
it in peace.
DennisDate: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:36:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
I'm complaining because
so are you saying that small self running devices are not useful as proof?
This seems at odds with what you told me. DennisDate: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:13:44
-0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for 10 days..
hurry up
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l
I will post this up on Cold Fusion Now.
But can anyone say what we are voting for? is it for a chance to
speak? funding?
The website does not explain much...
I would like to give some more info than just please vote.
Ruby
On 3/5/13 11:04 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
I personally don’t think that it all needs to be about proof or
commercialization.
Well, it does if you want funding. Not if you are doing it for fun.
After 24 years and many papers, I don’t think that “proof” is needed any
longer. Proof is already
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
so are you saying that small self running devices are not useful as
proof?
It is a little complicated. The one that Arata made was too small. It did
not impress me or the others who saw it. We could even imagine local
temperature differences in the
OK, it's another chance to speak on April 4 - at MIT!
On 3/5/13 3:28 PM, Ruby wrote:
I will post this up on Cold Fusion Now.
But can anyone say what we are voting for? is it for a chance to
speak? funding?
The website does not explain much...
I would like to give some more info than
I agree 100% Terry..the best way -by far- to convince the majority of
skeptics is a self-running machine.
Maybe the only way. There are tons of calorimetry data already at the watt
and subwatt level. We need some drama at this stage. A self-runner should be
high on the list.
Speaking
But this is not a demonstrated device. It is a drawing of what Miley
would like to see work. I could provide a drawing also, but where
would I get the fuel? The fuel is the problem. Once a fuel that makes
a lot of heat for long periods is available, the engineering design
will follow. This
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
I agree 100% Terry….the best way -by far- to convince the majority of
skeptics is a self-running machine.
** **
Maybe the only way. There are tons of calorimetry data already at the watt
and subwatt level. We need some drama at this stage. A
I just think that Dennis could get a lot of attention if the media
caught on to a vehicle running around a track for a day, then a week,
then a month . . .
That little Bunny has been a great ad for batteries. It has survived
for . . . how many years? It is now a icon.
Go, Dennis!
I just posted on my Free Energy Truth Facebook page. We have over 19,000 members, so should get a vote or two ;-)
Original Message
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley Arpa-E startup project reloaded! vote for for
10 days.. hurry up
From: Ruby r...@hush.com
Date: Wed, March 06, 2013 9:28 am
JedA self running machine has to incorporate some design elements that make
it
obvious the thing is not fake.
OK, you are in the proof mode again..OK what are your specific
requirements?What elements do you hope to see? Dennis
Proof: Use a machine with a mass, M, to raise the temperature of a body of
water, L, from a starting temperature of C1 to C2, in time T, using P for
input power (batteries or measured electric power.)
Any values that surpass known chemical means will be satisfactory.
Any LENR system that can't
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
JedA self running machine has to incorporate some design elements that
make it
obvious the thing is not fake.
OK, you are in the proof mode again..
OK what are your *specific *requirements?
I started a new thread to untangle the confusion:
a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:
Because the scientific establishment is so certain LENR doesn’t work, it
doesn’t matter what tests are run by anybody or academic group. It will
always be instrument error or “claimed to be” or the error du jour.
The scientific establishment is an
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