Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

So now, settlers are hippies. It might actually explain why you see yourself (or whoever group you feel belonging to) to feel threatened. When you are a willing immigrant, you do more to overcome difficulties. This is obvious. The old ones become lazy and xenophobic. 2015-09-19 15:24 GMT-03:00

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

The world is threatened when the likes of Norman Borlaug are replaced by immigrants from India, that his green revolution created despite his warnings about the need for birth control, and then proceed to take over key positions in the Iowa government, where Borlaug was from, that make decisions

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

James, I think I have some experience in the issues about culture or not in the US. I think you are missing the point. I agree with you about that the feds has done no good for the US. Just the opposite. We still expand the influence from the feds over the states. I agree about the little info

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

US is primarily made by immigrants, which was occupied by murdering the original cultures. Also, many of those "immigrants" were brought against their own will. So, it is illogical to think of anything as "american culture". Even more so because the organizational basis of US it is that it should

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

What zombie talk! That which doesn't exist cannot be destroyed but it can, of course, destroy that which does exist and therefore justice dictates that it should be destroyed despite it not existing. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > US is primarily

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

The US is a settler culture, not an immigrant culture. A settler culture has a primary relationship with nature and secondary relationship with society. The loss of this culture is what is destroying science and technology and replacing it with theocracy as evidenced, not only by the treatment

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

James, have you stop beating your wife? Yes or No? 2015-09-19 1:16 GMT-03:00 James Bowery : > [image: Boxbe] This message is eligible > for Automatic Cleanup! (jabow...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule >

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

But, I think not being outraged by this kind of situation must be a sign of a mental illness. Of course, someone may be very busy with something else and not bother with this. 2015-09-19 14:00 GMT-03:00 James Bowery : > [image: Boxbe] This

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

The "outrage" is certainly normative. But then so is mental illness during mass hysteria. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > But, I think not being outraged by this kind of situation must be a sign > of a mental illness. Of course, someone may be

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

It is normative because feeling compassion for this case is the usual. I am not sure how things are in the US for this case, but I didn't need any push of media, other than reading a headline, to feel sorry. Not feeling anything is psychopathy. 2015-09-19 14:38 GMT-03:00 James Bowery

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

60 million children of pioneer US stock do not exist due to the real increase in cost of family formation imposed on the baby boom generation, and that demographic vacum is being filled by foreigners hostile to the culture that founded the US -- all as a result of US Federal government policies.

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Your logic is as flawless as the rest of the "outrage". On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > James, have you stop beating your wife? Yes or No? > > 2015-09-19 1:16 GMT-03:00 James Bowery : > >> [image: Boxbe]

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

They never claimed they thought it was a bomb. They KNEW it wasnt a bomb. They claim to have thought that he was trying to pass it off as a bomb to scare people. (which is even more assinine) On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > The Ahmed Mohamed case

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

James Bowery wrote: > The linked analysis posits that Ahmed's clock started out as another > clock, rather than a box of parts . . . > Yes, that is what Ahmed said. He put together clock electronics with a new LCD driver and power supply. It took him 20 minutes. , and Ahmed

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

leaking pen wrote: > They never claimed they thought it was a bomb. They KNEW it wasnt a bomb. > They claim to have thought that he was trying to pass it off as a bomb to > scare people. (which is even more assinine) > I believe that was their fall back position. At first

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

James Bowery wrote: The real reason the police were called in: > [ref. fake bomb statute] No, that is not the reason. The police were called in because the teacher and principal thought it was a real bomb. That is what they accused the kid of having. You need to read the

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Ahmed Mohamed, His Clock, and the Curious Turn of Events 164 Posted by timothy

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

this devices does not look like a bomb. too complex. To be honest it does not even look like a clock, too complex. It look like a single board computer of 1980 generation with LCD display. This is probably what it is with modern controllers. The kid need some years in electronic engineering school

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Good thing Sailer isn't hallucinating or mind-reading here! Hmm. His dad ran for Sudanese president. How suspicious! Hmmm. Kid builds a clock and this means he is…demonizing the West! On Sep 18, 2015, at 12:31 PM, James Bowery wrote: > Keep providing payoffs in terms of

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

S. Sailer said: > His dad helped him “make” this, and dad helped to make this “project” look > as questionable as possible, within the realm of plausible deniability. > In this case "as questionable as possible" means "not even slightly questionable to anyone who knows the first thing about

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Eric Walker wrote: > Probably not. But just in case, I will not bring something that looks > vaguely like a bomb to my place of work. > What if your place of work is a high school dedicated to teaching engineering?!? I cannot think of a more appropriate thing to bring

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Keep providing payoffs in terms of moral authority and social status for this kind of behavior and you are going to keep getting more of it: Steve Sailer: I’m sure you’ve heard about the Sudanese Muslim immigrant kid in Texas who was arrested for bringing his home made electronic clock to school

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

What physical precautions did they take that indicates they thought it was a bomb rather than a hoax device? On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > James Bowery wrote: > > The real reason the police were called in: >> > > [ref. fake

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Lawrence de Bivort wrote: Let's say that the kid's clock looked like a Hollywood bomb. > Yes, let's acknowledge this simple point, for our own credibility. Let's go further for the sake of completeness -- it's missing the explosives. The

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote: if someone with notion of electronics says that it looks like a bomb, I > remove even his bachelor of science immediately. > You and Jed have both missed the point. The skill that went into the thing has nothing to

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

since bomb squad was not called, since they kept the bomb witrh the policemen, and did not evacuate the zone, it is clear they never believed it was a bomb. if they did not believed it was a bomb but arrested the kid, why? now it is more clear, and at least you cannot accuse an technology

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Eric Walker wrote: > You and Jed have both missed the point. The skill that went into the > thing has nothing to do with what is of concern. The intention is what is > of concern. What does a young kid who brought such a thing to a school > intend to do? > He clearly

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Hello Guys , I like this discussion. The real solution is to make the definition; what is a fake bomb? How does it look? Goes it sound? Any significant thing that gives away that this is a bomb? Blaze says , "It is a felony to make a fake bomb". Anything can be considered looking as a bomb.

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Let's say that the kid's clock looked like a Hollywood bomb. The kid gets accosted by school personnel. So far so good. But instead of handcuffing him, belittling him, calling the cops, and suspending him, intelligent school personnel would have looked at the clock seen that it was no bomb,

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

oops, not LCD, but LED... no LCD affordable at my time. 2015-09-18 9:26 GMT+02:00 Alain Sepeda : > this devices does not look like a bomb. > too complex. > To be honest it does not even look like a clock, too complex. > It look like a single board computer of 1980

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

You seem intent on distorting my position. You give the impression of being naive. I want school administrators asking those questions. I don't want them reacting the way the ones in Texas did. Eric On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Lawrence de Bivort wrote: > So

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

So anyone's "concerns" are grounds enough for breaking the law? For unbridled bigotry? Remember the mainstay of our legal system, "innocent until proven guilty?" Or does your fear justify tearing up our Constitution? Gee. I have concerns about bigots and sadists masquerading as police

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Larry, I agree with you. There is a constant fear for doing what one think is logical and instead give in to fear. Thus creating stupid, non-enforceable laws, which needs exemptions and support laws to cover the loopholes and then we have this situation when we do not allow LENR (as an example) as

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson < orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: > > I disagree. The concerns would have vanished, if not had been greatly > reduced. > You guys appear to be forgetting the Columbine high school massacre. Eric

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Ahmed gets his revenge in TIME Magazine: http://time.com/4038305/ahmed-mohamed-clock-mit/?xid=newsletter-brief Excerpt: But during the press conference, Mohamed explained what he really wants to do: go to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology for collage. In the meantime, he

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson < orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: Ahmed gets his revenge in TIME Magazine: > http://time.com/4038305/ahmed-mohamed-clock-mit/?xid=newsletter-brief The biggest tragedy is that Ahmed appears to have failed to learn an important

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Well, hell, Eric. Will YOU build a bomb next week and kill people? Probably not. Maybe. Maybe! This is mere hysteria. Maybe. If we arrest people and harass them on the grounds of potential 'maybe's, then everyone should be locked up right away. Oh, wait. Maybe the police are maybe going

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

That's a case of xenophobia. Just that. Ahmed=arab=terrorist

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

The biggest tragedy is that adults have failed to learn an important lesson--don't pander to your fears, don't embrace your bigotry, and don't throw our laws (against false arrest, and the right of adolescents to have their parents present when they are being interrogated) for example) and

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

>From Eric > But ignore Mohamed's race and religion for a moment, and the concerns remain. I disagree. The concerns would have vanished, if not had been greatly reduced. >From my POV it appears that the argument you are making, as well as the school >administrator's POV, were NOT

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence de Bivort wrote: Well, hell, Eric. > Will YOU build a bomb next week and kill people? Probably not. Maybe. > Probably not. But just in case, I will not bring something that looks vaguely like a bomb to my place of work. Nor will

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

I don't forget it. I was directly affected by it. Nor do I forget the atmosphere of bullying that the Columbine principal and coaches fostered in the school, and how the students-turned-killers were the standing target of that bullying. When will people learn that when people are mistreated,

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

" I don't want them reacting the way the ones in Texas did." Thank you for this, Eric. To react differently, people have to change their thinking, abandon their emotional and cognitive scarring from the past, eschew their bigotries, challenge their own assumptions and the assertions of

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

on the kid story, this is not new, and Bruce Schneier explain well that it is security theater, and that there is serious way to manage security. I advise to read Beyond Fear https://www.schneier.com/books/beyond_fear/ great book, as all his books on cryptography are. I remember of a case of some

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

lol. I love the outrage! Such drama. However simple reality is no one, and I mean no one, knows the facts on the ground. Was it an overreaction? Sure, most likely, but perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye. Maybe the kid was spouting islamic stuff. Remember columbine,

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

I think that the value system of the so called scientists and journalists that were involved in the P-F discrediting episode is inconsistent with what Jed implies they possessed--in other words scientist and journalist values. It seems to me they had values of capitalists and money grubbers

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

I will say one thing - the one thing I think everyone completely missed was that there should not have been a picture of the kid in handcuffs and it should have been handled much more discretely.The over reaction can be excused, but it should have been done very very quietly. That can not be

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

It is sad for me to consider that the freedom to pursue science on your own in the US is mostly gone. Not even adults can purchase chemicals, laboratory glassware may be flat out illegal in some areas and having any sort of home lab can put you in legal jeopardy. It's also stunning to

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

>From Lennart: > Personally I see no reason for the law either against heroin > (they will abuse it anyhow) This Off Topic conversion is about to get a lot more off topic, and I don't care! ;-) I like what you said, Lennart. I generally agree with your premise. IMO, we should

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Alain Sepeda wrote: > The problem of cold fusion was incompetence of the particle and plasma > physicist in calorimetry. > > These people were in fact not totally incompetent, just not enough to > understanf Fleischmann and trust calorimetry, but too much to be modest >

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Eric Walker wrote: > I don't think it's so simple. One of these devices is the thing that > Ahmed Mohamed brought to school, and two of are what a Hollywood villain > might use to blow up a building: > In an ordinary middle school or high school perhaps it would not be

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 6:53 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: But this is a technical school with a staff trained in science and > electronics! Any one of them could have glanced at the gadget and seen it > was a clock. Even I can tell, and I am no expert in electronics or >

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Eric Walker wrote: It's obviously a clock. But it looks a lot like a clock designed to look > like a bomb. > Not to me, it doesn't. Where is the explosive? Where is something that looks even a little like an explosive? > I suspect that was intentional. > I see no

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Bob Cook wrote: > It seems to me they had values of capitalists and money grubbers and > little, if any, scientist and journalist values. > I do not think capitalism had much to do with it. This was typical academic politics. It was a turf war over theory and who gets

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

I wrote: > This sort of thing only happens in academia. > I mean, compared to programming. There are politics, backbiting, betrayal, dirty tactics and so on everywhere, in every line of work. But some industries are more prone to these things than others. Show business and academic science have

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

I am just flabbergasted. "Making something that LOOKS LIKE A BOMB is a felony".. I do not say it is not I am just wondering: 1. How to enforce that (if I build one and do not show it to someone who report me and then destroy the fake bomb and someone reports me after that am I going to be

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

laugh: http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-wozniak-in-jail-fake-bomb-2011-10 On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Blaze Spinnaker wrote: > Any reasonably cautious person would say this thing looks like a hoax > bomb: >

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

He could move to Poland. They teach how to make realistic fake bombs in electronic magazines: http://elportal.pl/portfolio-item/219/ MJ On 17-Sep-15 18:24, Blaze Spinnaker wrote: Any reasonably cautious person would say this thing looks like a hoax bomb:

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Any reasonably cautious person would say this thing looks like a hoax bomb: http://www.wired.com/2015/09/heres-bomb-clock-got-ahmed-mohamed-arrested/ Making something that LOOKS LIKE A BOMB is a felony. It's akin to shouting fire in a crowded theatre. Again, I think the teachers over reacted

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Lennart Thornros wrote: I am just flabbergasted. "Making something that LOOKS LIKE A BOMB is a > felony".. I do not say it is not I am just wondering: > 1. How to enforce that (if I build one and do not show it to someone who > report me and then destroy the fake bomb and

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

argument Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Jed, Read what you just wrote, This is those authorities, you think we should respect, in action. Where I grow up there was no laws that we should be inoculated. I think you are confusing technical expertise and authorities. There is no problem with technical expertise. However, when you bring in

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Lennart Thornros wrote: Where I grow up there was no laws that we should be inoculated. > I do not know where you grew up, but in the U.S. the first law mandating vaccinations was passed in 1855, and vaccinations become mandatory for public school attendance in 1922.

RE: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Lennart, I realize English is not your native language. I try my best to afford you generous leeway when I can't parse your English grammar. After all, I don't know your native language. That said, I must confess that in this circumstance I don't quite understand what the point was that you

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Thank you steven. I do need some support and perhaps I should take some extra time to check the message. I tried to be sarcastic. I agree with what you say/ I disagree with that this is because we have too few laws. On the contrary - because the many laws and the many add ons to cover specific

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Hello Jed, In Sweden, where I grow up in the 50-is (not the 1850-is). It was less laws and more freedom I guess. However, this is not about polio vaccine. your arguments can be had about heroine also - just the other way around. Laws does not make the difference, Just punish people breaking the

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 7:59 PM, a.ashfield wrote: > I would place the primary blame on the school. A technical school and no > one there can tell the difference between a clock and a bomb? Really? > I don't think it's so simple. One of these devices is the thing

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

Jed, I would place the primary blame on the school. A technical school and no one there can tell the difference between a clock and a bomb? Really? All the teachers involved must really dumb if they couldn't tell there was no explosive present, even the non technical ones. I disagree that

Re: [Vo]:The Ahmed Mohamed case and distrust of experts

a.ashfield wrote: > > I would place the primary blame on the school. Me too, but I think it was an administrator. > A technical school and no one there can tell the difference between a > clock and a bomb? Really? > Reports say that at least one teacher saw it