Good call Mark but every thing known about the bonds and bond energies
and chemistry tells us that this kind of thing is impossible with only
one exception a cold plasma. Hydrogen stripped of its electron and
oxygen + stripped of one of its 6 outer electrons can mix without
burning and holds
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Michel Jullian wrote:
I don't know what you're after Fred (power from surface effects? All I
Jed Rothwell wrote:
The consequences of denying the reality of cold fusion have had a horrendous
impact on the real world.
The consequences of denying the reality of ___ have had a
horrendous impact on the real world.
Fill in the blank and take a number...
;-)
Harry
Using 12 SS plates stacked similar to this setup:
http://www.hydropowercar.com/content.php?content.6
The 12 plates (11 cells) were slipped over plastic rod
with ~ 1.0 cm spacing. Immersed in distilled water in
a container evacuated to 5 inches Hg pressure.
The current with 12 volts DC applied
Michel Jullian writes:
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Michel Jullian wrote:
I don't know what you're after Fred
BTW the 12 Volts is applied to each of the end plates only
the other 10 plates "float" just like the concentric cylinders
in the Joe Cell. the Plates are spaced with 1 cm sleeves
over the insulating rods passing through the enlarged
(two) holes in the plates.
- Original Message -
Title: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Of related interest.
Ben Franklin's electrostatic motor:
http://www.todaysengineer.org/2002/Aug/heritage.asp
Harry
Frederick Sparber wrote:
Richard's off-hand quip about static electricity reminded me of
an Electrostatic
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:46 AM
I'm after that ~ 80,000 joule/mole Spontaneous Free Energy in the
Autoionization of Water
( 0.83 eV per H-OH bond, 2 H2O --- H3O+ + OH -)
Fred do you
Title: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
They're called Electrostatic Voltmeters, Harry.
OTOH. If you tie a high gain antenna with a series diode
to the positive plate (anode) and earth ground the
cathode, you can use all of that "Free Energy" from
Cell Phones, AM-FM-TV
Michel Jullian wrote.
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:46 AM
I'm after that ~ 80,000 joule/mole Spontaneous Free Energy in the
Autoionization of Water
( 0.83 eV per H-OH bond, 2 H2O ---
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
They're called Electrostatic Voltmeters, Harry.
OTOH. If you tie a high gain antenna with a
Harry Veeder wrote:
The consequences of denying the reality of cold fusion have had a
horrendous
impact on the real world.
The consequences of denying the reality of ___ have had a
horrendous impact on the real world.
Fill in the blank and take a number...
Some things matter much
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
BTW the 12 Volts is applied to each of the end plates only
the other 10 plates float just like the concentric cylinders
in the Joe Cell. the Plates are spaced with 1 cm sleeves
over the insulating rods passing through the enlarged
(two) holes
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
BTW the 12 Volts is applied to each of the end plates only
the other 10 plates float just like the concentric cylinders
in the Joe Cell. the Plates are spaced with 1 cm sleeves
over the insulating rods passing through the enlarged
(two) holes
Fred,
Ours is like the Joe Cell, or now Klein's patent application.
There seems to be no good reason that the electrode geometry needs
to be cylindrical (except that Meyer and Joe both chose it) - OTOH
electrode surface area (as opposed to geometry) does seem to be
important.
Are you
Terry wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
BTW the 12 Volts is applied to each of the end plates only
the other 10 plates float just like the concentric cylinders
in the Joe Cell. the Plates are spaced with 1 cm sleeves
over the insulating rods passing through the
I don't do PCMs. But it would reduce the current
to about 20 milliamperes peak.
[Original Message]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: 5/17/2006 7:39:58 AM
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Cover Plate Experiment
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
BTW the
It's easier to do Rectangular plates for making the
cell, but harder to pressure-vacuum package than circular concentric
cells.
Ours is rectangular. built in a heavy wall hexagonal gallon size
glass jug and assembled like building a ship in a bottle.
My colleague, 1800 miles to the east, was
I hope that Fred's Hemholtz-optimized cell works to self-power an
ICE, or at least can increase the efficiency of gasoline
combustion. The simple addition of some hydrogen should increase
the efficiency of combustion in any ICE, since the flame speed of
hydrogen is so high - and if a lower
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene
...consequently - almost the entire National supply of pure Silver
bullion from Ft. Knox and elsewhere - was borrowed by the Clinton
Engineering Works (false front) and then extruded and drawn into
magnet-wire to be used in the giant coils of the
With a P-out/P-in of 4.0 for the Helmholtz/Joe Cell, the 54%
Otto Cycle or 64% Diesel Cycle can allow Self-Sustained shaft power
output without major tooling Jones.
http://members.aol.com/engware/calc3.htm
BTW. There was a restaurant in Clinton ran by a little old lady
where Don Ernst (RCA
Terry Fred,
Also, TVA was under construction at the time and many power
lines had the same Cu substitution. They kept it quite quiet to
keep the hillbillies from harvesting the Ag before the lines
could be replaced. :-)
Yup, and only 20 miles away, via thunder road from Clinton/Oak
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene
To be fair to the hillbillies, they would only harvest metals which
were useful for certain plumbing tasks
I once assisted my great-uncle in construction of a total Cu
distillery. He even used silver solder since he was a patron of the
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Harry Veeder wrote:
The consequences of denying the reality of cold fusion have had a
horrendous
impact on the real world.
The consequences of denying the reality of ___ have had a
horrendous impact on the real world.
Fill in the blank and take a number...
Title: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
But it can also function as a motor. (Maybe nanoscale motors work this way.)
What I was wondering is whether the friction of motion could
be used to replenish the static charges and keep the motor turning.
Harry
Frederick
Seems to me that substituting a 5 gallon propane
tank for the Joe Cell would allow low-pressure
on-board distillation of the squeezins product. if you
draw some heat from the cooling system heater hose
loop. That way Terry doesn't have to ride on
the front fender obstructing Jones' view of the
This link has more on the history of electrostatic motors.
Includes several illustrations.
http://f3wm.free.fr/sciences/jefimenko.html
Harry
Geez`Terry.
A pickup truckwith a camper shell is ideal for
hauling afew sacks of corn, a cooker and a roughing still
heated off the engine exhaust with the moving air condenser coil.
The "mobility product" portion is fed to the propane tank low pressure
distillation chamber for the engine.
Lets
The efficacy of legally sanctioned social impact studies went all the way
downhill when Karl Marx wrote Das Kapital.
P.
At 02:25 PM 5/17/2006 -0500, you wrote:
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Harry Veeder wrote:
The consequences of denying the reality of cold fusion have had a
horrendous
impact
That is interesting Harry.
But why use the feeble electrostatic motors
when you can use the helium balloon tethered
fair weather field collector voltage-current to make
OH and H gas to run a ICE?
You can also store the fair weather field energy in a capacitor
or storage battery then dump it
Harry Veeder wrote:
Sure, but there have been costs too.
Social impact studies should be required by law just as environmental impact
studies are now required by law.
That is impossible, even in principle. The social impact of cold
fusion, or any other technology, is always a matter of
I must confess I've never heard of this. It sounds somewhat
astonishing.
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Butanol
A gasoline substitute that's cheap and fully equal in BTU energy
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
Geez`Terry.
A pickup truck with a camper shell is ideal for
hauling a few sacks of corn,
Yeah, but this was when my dad was a mere teen and I was not even a
twinkle.
T
___
Try the New
At 04:34 pm 17/05/2006 -0500, you wrote:
I must confess I've never heard of this. It sounds somewhat
astonishing.
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Butanol
A gasoline substitute that's cheap and fully equal in BTU energy
Sounds good to me. One learns something everyday on Vortex.
In reply to Zell, Chris's message of Tue, 16 May 2006 08:23:52
-0500:
Hi,
[snip]
True, but in this case we are storing the best form of energy,
electricity as opposed to a car engine. You might need cheaper
electricity to make this
gadget more than a marginal improvement over what we're stuck
In reply to OrionWorks's message of Tue, 16 May 2006 11:46:58
-0700:
Hi,
[snip]
* 40 times higher power to weight ratio.
[snip]
* Can be applied to airplane, big ship, 18 wheeler, SUV, passenger car, even
down to carry on power generator applications.
[snip]
I would just like to see this
Marx was a social theorist rather than a social engineer. The problem with
earlier social engineering projects is that the social engineer had acquired
political power, which meant they could not be held legally and financially
liable for their failures. We are comfortable with the idea of
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