On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com
wrote:
Point is that it looks like it might be possible to hide additional
electrical power supply within what the testers looked at, and we don't
have enough information from the testers to check on all of these
Hi Rich,
Yeah, its pretty much consumed bandwidth in the Collective since it came
out
-Mark
From: Rich Murray [mailto:rmfor...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:49 PM
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com; Rich Murray
Subject: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat HT shows excess heat from H gas + Ni powder
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
**
Since the experimenters walked up to the experiment *after* it had been
turned on, we don't know for sure whether the existing cabling was used to
impart the RF, or a separate kickstart cable.
There were three runs. The
I wrote:
Lubos Motl does not appear to be drawing a distinction between TeX and
LaTeX; he is drawing a distinction between TeX/LaTeX, on one hand, and a
simple PDF typed up in a normal word processor, on the other. Presumably
the former would be the expected form of submission to a mainstream
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:00:43 PM
Alan (or someone) made the point that everything, laptop and all,
were plugged into the same power supply. Would hidden DC or AC above
or below the range of the meter hurt the laptop?
That was me -- and only a
From Mark:
SVJ writes, I thought Krivit had been 'honored' with a so-called
demo when he visited Rossi's lab.
What Krivit was likely EXPECTING was a 'test';
what he GOT was a 'demo'; two very different things.
Was it reasonable for Krivit (a journalist) to expect the same kind
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:16:55 AM
I wrote:
Lubos Motl does not appear to be drawing a distinction between TeX
and LaTeX; he is drawing a distinction between TeX/LaTeX, on one
hand, and a simple PDF typed up in a normal word processor, on the
The Forbes paper did give me a better insight to the scale and geometry of the
Rossi reactors where the cylinder length is 33 cm for both the outer and inner
cylinder. The outter cylinder is 10 centimeters in diameter while the inner
cylinder which holds the powder charge is only 33
Clearly not impressed. Annotated paper at :
http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/
I've only skimmed it. Jed is mentioned.
Greetings,
As mentioned previously, the value of ~300 eV could be a key to
understanding the excess heat of the Rossi effect. This mass-energy level
would be witnessed as a photon at the upper limit of ultraviolet spectrum or
a soft x-ray. This value is most unusual for photon emission in
On May 22, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
Ed,
I think the structure of the coulomb barrier is open to intrinsic
modification, but the variables governing this possibility cannot be
uncovered by the tools and concepts of high energy physics.
I agree. In fact, the insistence that
Test message
If this email gets in, there are some comments by Hanno Essen on the
latest third party report on phys.org:
http://phys.org/news/2013-05-rossi-e-cat-energy-density-higher.html
S.A.
Someone actually paid for the url shutdownrossi.com ? Altruistic rarely
extends to paid attacks... I would ignore any information on a site with this
sort of url.
Fran
-Original Message-
From: Alan Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:38 PM
To:
Clearly not impressed. Annotated paper at :
http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/
I've only skimmed it. Jed is mentioned.
Also, MOTL (#81) shows up at science blogs I was very tempted to critique
his comments
As a Rossi watcher, I notice what he has done historically. All of his low
temperature reactors have been lined with a thin layer of lead. Rossi
states that the reaction emits low energy photons in the 10's of keV up to
about 100keV. This is consistent with the amount of lead that has been
seen
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Clearly not impressed. Annotated paper at :
http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/
This paper or the whole website appears to be down. No great loss.
Someone familiar with Facebook
Tests find Rossi's E-Cat has an energy density at least 10 times higher
than any conventional energy source
http://phys.org/news/2013-05-rossi-e-cat-energy-density-higher.html
Essén said that there are plans to submit the paper to a peer-reviewed
journal, although they understand that it may be
Alan Fletcher wrote:
ps http://phys.org/news/2013-05-rossi-e-cat-energy-density-higher.html
Nice diagram! (Gee .. they cropped some stuff off it)
They darn well should have acknowledged you.
- Jed
Original Message
Subject:Fwd: Re: [Vo]:Levi Hot Cat paper is a gem
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 10:20:27 -0700
From: Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.info
To: vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com
I am acting as devils advocate here for a minute.
Had the demo been
can Ethan's hidden double power wires explain regular exponential
temperature rises and falls every 6 minutes for 5 days in Rossi HT2: Ethan:
Rich Murray 2013.05.23
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2013/05/can-ethans-hidden-double-power-wires.html
Have a bit more of a think about it Jed, IR laser beams wouldn't need to be
any more intense than the heat being radiated by the E-cat. In fact by
shining in from multiple directions they could be less intense than the
emitted heat from the E-cat (like concentrating relatively diffuse sunlight
to
Bob,
While it is true that Rossi's first demo had lead shielding, none of the
recent versions have had any shielding. You can see in the new paper and
pictures - there is no shielding. At the first demo 2011 - the radioactive
signal seen by Celani et al was seen at startup only.
BTW -
Hello group,
Have a look here (Google translated):
http://www.elforsk.se/Aktuellt/Svenska-forskare-har-testat-Rossis-energikatalysator--E-cat/
Swedish researchers have tested Rossi energy catalyst - E-cat
Researchers from Uppsala University and KTH Stockholm has conducted
measurements of
I'm confused by the title you use, H gas + Ni powder making Cu over
days. I'm not aware any copper, or any other transmutation product, was
looked for or found. I confuse easily, so please enlighten.
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:01 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote:
Hi Rich,
Hello group,
Given the ongoing interest on Vortex-l, I think these comments by Hanno
Essén on the latest third party report in a recent article by Phys.org
might be worth of attention:
http://phys.org/news/2013-05-rossi-e-cat-energy-density-higher.html
I have followed the Rossi E-Cats for a
*A dependent, 2nd party, untestable claim means squat*
This paper is yet another unrefereed, sub-par cold fusion claim to add to
the pile of unrefereed sub-par cold fusion claims. Only this is is an
unrefereed, sub-par cold fusion claim made with a black box that no one
else has access to.
(this is my second attempt to send this message. I think the server is
having problems with some emails)
Hello group,
Have a look here (Google translated):
http://www.elforsk.se/Aktuellt/Svenska-forskare-har-testat-Rossis-energikatalysator--E-cat/
Swedish researchers have tested Rossi
Duncan Cumming spacedr...@cumming.info wrote:
Power measurement was done using a wide band 3 phase power meter, a
notoriously difficult instrument to use. A slight slackening of one of the
current sensing clamps . . .
This would be detected during the calibration with a resistor, and again
On 2013-05-23 21:45, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello group,
A couple more links.
Some more background on the ecat.com website:
http://ecat.com/news/elforsk-publish-news-about-the-ecat-test
What is Elforsk?
On 17 December 1992 Vattenfall, Svenska Kraftnät (Swedish national grid),
Association
On 2013-05-23 17:09, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello group,
(this email appeared on the list six hours later than when I sent it)
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Another reason to think they do not intend to submit for publication
in a reputable scientific journal -- they cite Wikipedia (ref. 8, at
the end).
Lordy, lordy -- it's firgin diagram -- a compilation of generally
ELFORSK is the Swedish Energy Association. Some sources say it is Danish,
but the web site is in Swedish. See:
http://www.elforsk.se/
By the way, someone should please ping me and let me know if this message
got through. Vortex has been rejecting me again. sniff!
- Jed
Gary Wright, Rossi's Florida factory claim nemesis
On 23 May 2013 18:56, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote:
Someone actually paid for the url shutdownrossi.com ? Altruistic rarely
extends to paid attacks... I would ignore any information on a site with
this sort of url.
Fran
Not working . . .
rofl
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote:
*A dependent, 2nd party, untestable claim means squat*
This paper is yet another unrefereed, sub-par cold fusion claim to add to
the pile of unrefereed sub-par cold fusion claims. Only this is is an
unrefereed,
I found the major error:
The peak wavelength is in the infrared -- as it is with the sun -- and I
intuitively thought that the fact that much of the surface was bright red
thru yellow meant my picking dull red (700nm) was conservative. This
then fed via Wien's law proportionately into the fourth
A great deal of discussion has been generated by the Rossi test. I
would liker to add my contribution.
Rossi has demonstrated two very important behaviors of the effect.
First, the effect can be initiated and sustained for a significant
time at temperatures above 800° C. This means the NAE
MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
Did he discuss his visit in detail with Rossi so that they both were on
the same page as to what to expect?
As I wrote here at the time, before Rossi invited Krivit, he invited me. He
described what he would do, in detail. I said I would bring my
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote:
As for the other; are you seriously disputing that 2kW of AC electrical
power could be sent through those wires to the Ecat?
2 kW is not a problem, although modern US safety standards limit power to
1.5 kW. What they cannot do is send enough
Sorry about the duplication of one of the paragraphs in that epistle. It's
a riviso…
I want to emphasize the point about the power density of the nickel. If
there really is only one gram of nickel, then the power density
(power-to-mass ratio) is about 100 times higher than found in nuclear
On 05/22/2013 11:01 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
It is strange how a detailed-oriented engineer sometimes throws
discipline aside and blunders ahead like an amateur. I am a big fan of
structured programming with meaningful variable names, but I once
dashed off a quick and dirty program for Chris
Some points to ponder, if you run the numbers:
1. To produce the supposed excess energy generated over 116 hours would
require about 100 Kg of lithium-based batteries.
2. To produce the supposed excess power would require a wire feed (and
return) carrying just a few milliAmps at a few
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Regardless of which theory a person wishes to apply, this description must
be acknowledged because it is based on engineering principles, not on a
theory of LENR.
I agree, but perhaps this description only applies to Ni-H, not Pd-D. Could
that be
Apparently they have allocated the following funds to study the technology:
A report published earlier this year by ELFORSK showed that in 2012, 200,000
Swedish Krona (about 23,000 Euros) was budgeted for the study of the E-Cat,
and in each of the following three years 2,000,000 Krona was
If I could elaborate a little bit more on this: it doesn't surprise me
that someone with a poor memory can also be an excellent engineer. The
two traits go together. With me, for instance, it's because I have a
hard time remembering, that I have become an excellent problem solver.
When I look at
Does not like it, at least it seems so at fast reading:
http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/
Peter
--
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Alan Fletcher wrote:
That was me -- and only a couple of things were plugged into the same socket --
the meter and a camera. The laptops were further over on a separate plug.
The same socket in the wall, or the very same plug in that socket? I
suppose one plug could be secretly wired and the
Regarding Ethan #84
There is cutting insight to be drawn from the reactions of the professional
science cast as they post about the Rossi test.
I am a stiffed necked sort who rejects arbitrary discipline. This reaction
has kindled in me a resentment of a kind of authority that spreads the
scent
The site isn't loading.
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Clearly not impressed. Annotated paper at :
http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/thoughts-on-the-latest-andrea-rossi-giuseppe-levi-and-hanno-essen-paper/
I've only skimmed it. Jed is mentioned.
http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/DPOWdJL0eqo/story01.htm
Craig cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote:
. . . it doesn't surprise me
that someone with a poor memory can also be an excellent engineer. The
two traits go together. With me, for instance, it's because I have a
hard time remembering, that I have become an excellent problem solver.
When I look
Alan Fletcher wrote:
That was me -- and only a couple of things were plugged into the same
socket -- the meter and a camera. The laptops were further over on a
separate plug.
The same socket in the wall, or the very same plug in that socket? I
suppose one plug could be secretly wired and the
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Regarding Ethan #84
Axil^2 refers to a letter, here:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2013/05/21/the-e-cat-is-back-and-people-are-still-falling-for-it/
There is cutting insight to be drawn from the reactions of the
professional science cast . . .
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
The site isn't loading.
It is now back on line.
My goodness! The author, Gary Wright, is an extremist.
Regarding me, Wright says: Are they [Levi et al.] expecting everyone to
blindly believe everything Rossi has said or done in the past as Jed
Rothwell
thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the
exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in each 6
minute cycle -- what do your think?
within the fellowship of service, Rich
can Ethan's hidden double power wires explain regular exponential
temperature
Rossi writes on his blog about Arxiv, peer reviewing, why that report is
not going to be published on a magazine [not a journal], but something
derived from it could/will.
May 22nd, 2013 at 4:30 PM
Dear Paolo,
I read the article on Repubblica, is sincere and honest, but contains some
Rossi has stated that the testers brought their own cables. A poster here
asserts that they were Rossi's cables. As usual, this issue is not addressed
by the paper.
If I were concerned with my scientific integrity, I would collect together
all such comments and re-issue that paper. But if I
Does anone have any more in-depth bios of the group that tested the E-Cat.
This is what I have so far:
Giuseppe Levi
Assistant Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Bologna University
Bologna, Italy
Bio:
From: Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:38:34 PM
thanks, Peter Gluck -- I notice Gary Wright does not refer to the
exponential shape of the curves of rise and fall of temperature in
each 6 minute cycle -- what do your think?
I'm working on the Spice
Andrew wrote:
Rossi has stated that the testers brought their own cables. A poster
here asserts that they were Rossi's cables. As usual, this issue is
not addressed by the paper.
Cables? Do you mean electric wires? That brings up a good point.
With a clamp on ammeter there has to be set of
Mark Gibbs wrote:
Essen, Rossi's site notes, was at one time critical of Rossi and the
E-Cat. Anyone got any citations?
He published some strong remarks, years ago. I expect you can find them
easily with Google. He was the president of the Swedish Skeptics
Society, so it is no surprise he
From: Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:46:47 PM
Subject: [Vo]:E-Cat Tester's Bios
Torbjörn Hartman
Senior Research Engineer
The Svedberg Laboratory (which specializes in proton therapy and is
attached to Uppsala University)
Uppsala, Sweden,
Publications:
Which author is a vet? I didn't find any such thing ...
[mg]
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
Rossi has stated that the testers brought their own cables. A poster here
asserts that they were Rossi's cables. As usual, this issue is not
addressed by the paper.
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
If I were concerned with my scientific integrity, I would collect together
all such comments and re-issue that paper. But if I were a veterinarian,
like one of the authors, it wouldn't be a big concern, because I could
still make
Which author is the veterinarian? Here are the details I've been able
to find:
* Evelyn Foschi -- not sure; possibly this:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/evelyn-foschi/5/7b8/645
Associated with http://www.ceixray.com/
They MAKE X-RAY EQUIPMENT, which can be used for (their site
Serves me right for copying verbatim from an article without checking.
Apologies. Obviously it was a half-baked hatchet job in that article. I
can't locate it for now, but I definitely read it, and yes it was Foschi.
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com
To:
Vorts,
Serves me right for copying verbatim from an article without checking.
Yes, as a general warning to all, I've seen this numerous times in just 4 days,
where someone states something that is picked up and repeated. I've seen this
happen not only in the comment section of various
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
The same socket in the wall, or the very same plug in that socket? I
suppose one plug could be secretly wired and the all the others in the
building not. Rossi would have to worry that they might come in to the lab,
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Which author is a vet? I didn't find any such thing ...
Maybe this guy? Hartman:
http://katalog.uu.se/empInfo?id=N96-5170
Personal merits
Dr.Med.vet., civ.ing.
I guess that means Veterinarian Medicine and Civil Engineering. But maybe
it means something
Fig. 1-2 caption: The performance of this device was such that the reactor
was
destroyed, melting the internal steel cylinder and the surrounding ceramic
layers.
It does mean vet. Here's a random person from LinkedIn
Cornelia Wagner, Dr. med. vet.
Veterinarian, Certified Veterinary Acupucturist at Hawthorne Veterinary
Clinic
She's German also, like Hartman.
So yes, Hartman's a vet. Perhaps because he's vetting. Woof woof.
Andrew
- Original
MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
E.g., the statement that how could you melt the ceramic with a much higher
melting point and not the steel cylinder, or that both the ceramic and the
steel melted... Both of these are wrong. That was NEVER stated in the
report.
Yes, it was. Figs.
Why God gave *us* Google.
Quoting the elderly British woman circa 1955, If God had meant us to fly,
he would never have given us the railways. My sentiments exactly.
- Jed
I for one am going to drop this esteemed science team meme. There's another
one with a nuclear physics qualification who has several patents on coffee
machine design. This does not indicate to me that we are dealing here with the
cream of the crop.
Andrew
- Original Message -
From:
Oh Lord, we are all sinners :)
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Secret wiring hypothesis [second copy?]
MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
E.g., the statement that how
Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
**
I for one am going to drop this esteemed science team meme.
So, you think the Swedish power company consortium sent amateurs? You think
Uppsala U. and the Royal Institute of Technology are two-year colleges?
There's another one with a nuclear physics
3. The clamp ammeters are incapable of detecting not only DC but also
incapable of detecting frequencies above about 60 Hz.
I think you meant 60 kHz.
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote:
Some points to ponder, if you run the numbers:
1. To produce the supposed
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Publications:
http://www.journalogy.net/Author/53814223/torbjorn-hartman?query=Torbj%u00f6rn%20Hartman
Hmmm .. if HE's happy to stand around a running hot-cat then I guess it's
safe after all.
Scary stuff!
You can see how a vet. medical degree is
The vet is there because it is an e-cat...
On Thursday, May 23, 2013, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'a...@well.com');wrote:
Publications:
http://www.journalogy.net/Author/53814223/torbjorn-hartman?query=Torbj%u00f6rn%20Hartman
Hmmm .. if
If you want the Ecat tested in what you consider a trustworthy site,
Rossi will have to trust that his ecat will be returned.
Trust an integral part of life, and since science is done by the living
rather than the deceased, trust is also an integral part of science.
Harry
On Thu, May 23, 2013
ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:
The vet is there because it is an e-cat...
I *thought* of saying that, but I *resisted* the urge.
- Jed
Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I find it almost miraculous that anyone connected with a Skeptics Society
can bring himself to say anything positive about cold fusion. . . .
With all the vile attacks on Essen in the press and on the Internet, I'll
bet he feels differently about the
We know from direct measurements and studies at the boiling point that
the Pd-D system has a positive temperature coefficient in this range.
This behavior is characteristic of the effect because the rate must be
determined by an endothermic reaction. The Pd-D system will not be
very
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Mark Gibbs wrote:
Essen, Rossi's site notes, was at one time critical of Rossi and the
E-Cat. Anyone got any citations?
He published some strong remarks, years ago. I expect you can find them
easily with Google.
Jed:
Thanks for pointing that out. In the several times I read it, I did not
catch that statement in the Figure caption.
But the text does not mention it. I'd like to ask them for clarification.
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:57 PM
To:
Alan,
It will be interesting to see if your model agrees with mine. I have had one
working now for close to a year that demonstrates a COP of 6 when the device is
at the threshold of instability. A COP of 3 is much easier to control although
both must operate within a region which is
Alan Fletcher and David Roberson,
What is a spice model?
Do I understand, are these models for faking the Rossi results?
Thanks, Rich
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:03 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Alan,
It will be interesting to see if your model agrees with mine. I have had
I appreciate the commonsense engineering concepts about the endothermic
character of diffusion of nuclei within a lattice into the NAE.
within the fellowship of service, Rich
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote:
We know from direct measurements and
I hope they are not used for that purpose.
A spice model is an electronic model that handles non linear analysis. In
order to simulate Rossi's ECAT, you use electrical components.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com; Rich
Jed Rothwell,
You have to specify a method that is not only undetectable but that allows
far more electricity to be conducted than normal.
This is an ordinary wire.
It has to conduct enough electricity to heat up a reactor so much that it
melts 3 mm steel and ceramic.
That seems highly
From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:08:40 PM
I hope they are not used for that purpose.
A spice model is an electronic model that handles non linear
analysis. In order to simulate Rossi's ECAT, you use electrical
components.
Dave
Not only
Joshua Cude,
As always, I appreciate your incisive, decisive critique of the Rossi team
claims -- making the obvious, obvious...
I noticed just now, in my earlier post today, I was confused -- it is the
exponential rise and fall of temperature (power) that is a hallmark of
ordinary resistors
Joshua,
Essen's paper suggests a novel way to use magnetic pinching and electron
screening to effect conventional D+D fusion.
Aside from the fact that both he and W-L use the Darwin Hamiltonian to
calculate magnetic forces, their approaches are totally different.
-- Lou Pagnucco
Joshua Cude
can Ethan's hidden double power wires explain almost linear temperature
rises and falls every 6 minutes for 5 days in Rossi HT2: Ethan: Rich Murray
2013.05.23
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2013/05/can-ethans-hidden-double-power-wires.html
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