Values are found in some work substantially
higher, but it is generally consistent with a
theory that the actual reaction Q is the
deuterium value, but roughly half if the helium
is being trapped in the cathode or otherwise
escaping detection. Helium *is* apparently
trapped in the cathode,
We do not know what the reaction is.
Storms proposes that d e d (two deuterons with an
electron in between) are trapped in cracks in the
Pd, and that a slow process results in fusion
with release of energy as a series of X-rays
resonant in the crack. I and, I suspect, most
physicists, don't
At 04:29 PM 7/4/2012, Rich Murray wrote:
Well, there's a saying in Zen about swallowing the Niagara Falls in
one gulp -- perhaps a tsunami of verbal arguments by Lomax may float
visions that are plausibly contrary to the visions aired by Murray --
but the possiblities of micro and nano level
Wait!
Suddenly you admit that the authors don't believe the field is 3000V/cm within
the electrolyte? Maybe you should read the paper again in order to fully
understand it.
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 01:25:36 -0500
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: a...@lomaxdesign.com
At 11:41 AM 7/5/2012, Finlay MacNab wrote:
Wait!
Suddenly you admit that the authors don't believe the field is
3000V/cm within the electrolyte? Maybe you should read the paper
again in order to fully understand it.
No. While I'm not a mind reader, it does appear that the authors
believe
I think the explanation offered by Jeff is pretty good. As long as a
significant electric field is within the cell conductive region charged ions
will be driven by that field in such a manner as to eliminate it. This
concentrates the electric field so that it appears across the non
after some thinking I realized I made a few wrong statements - see below
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 2:18 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I think the explanation offered by Jeff is pretty good. As long as a
significant electric field is within the cell conductive region charged ions
At 11:46 PM 7/3/2012, Finlay MacNab wrote:
Sorry, I fail to see why the voltage drop is 3kv across the acrylic
layer. Why is that exactly?
There are three regions involved, between the plates that are
connected to a high voltage supply, 6 KV.
There is the first cell wall, 1/16 inch (1.6
Your argument assumes that the there is no air gap between the dielectric and
the charged plates. It also assumes that the electrolyte behaves like a
regular 100ohm resistor.
In this case, where the movement of ions in electrolyte is dominated by
diffusion and mixing from the gas bubbles
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, if one presumes that it
means anything.
At 12:11 AM 7/4/2012, Rich Murray wrote:
I'm glad to see my post has ignited a local hot spot in Vortex-L...
Some good will come out of it. I do intend to take this to the
original authors for comment,
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
Actual experimental results are more toward double, the value, over 40
MeV/He-4, which very likely reflects the difficulty in capturing all the
helium (if helium is not captured and measured, particularly if it
I wrote:
Assuming for the moment that the 40 MeV/4He result is solid and can be
reliably replicated, and going with helium as a predominant non-radiative
byproduct, what does this say about the reactions involved? Does it mean
that there would need to be more than helium generation, or is
Well, there's a saying in Zen about swallowing the Niagara Falls in
one gulp -- perhaps a tsunami of verbal arguments by Lomax may float
visions that are plausibly contrary to the visions aired by Murray --
but the possiblities of micro and nano level storage and release of
chemical energy by
I also agree that it must be the escape of helium that causes the mismatch, and
I notice that the numbers are definitely pointing in that direction. The
amount of energy released per reaction should be well defined and equal to the
mass deficit if the end product is helium with hydrogen as
At 12:00 PM 7/4/2012, Finlay MacNab wrote:
Your argument assumes that the there is no air
gap between the dielectric and the charged
plates. It also assumes that the electrolyte
behaves like a regular 100ohm resistor.
The plates are against the cell walls. Sure, you
can make up an air gap.
At 11:47 PM 7/2/2012, Rich Murray wrote:
SPAWAR has yet to respond re simple error in claims of effects of
external high voltage dc fields inside a conducting electrolyte: Rich
Murray 2012.03.01 2012.07.02
Coldfusionnow.org posted the following video today: 68 minutes April, 2012
Robert Duncan
It should be noted that in an electrolyte the current results from a chemical
reaction at the anode and cathode (in this case the generation of hydrogen and
oxygen) there are no free charge carriers in the solution itself. The cations
and anions are bound together by electrostatic attraction
At 03:44 PM 7/3/2012, Finlay MacNab wrote:
It should be noted that in an electrolyte the current results from a
chemical reaction at the anode and cathode (in this case the
generation of hydrogen and oxygen) there are no free charge carriers
in the solution itself. The cations and anions are
As far as Finlay's statement that There are no charges flowing through the
solution. I would qualify it by saying that there are no electrons flowing
thru the solution, but for a simple electrolyte such as NaCl, the NaCl
dissociates into Na+1 and Cl-1 ions in solution and they *are* influenced by
A quick web-search verifies that E-fields most assuredly CAN exist in
conductive electrolytes. for both DC and AC conditions.
Electric fields in an electrolyte solution near a strip of fixed potential
http://jcp.aip.org/resource/1/jcpsa6/v123/i13/p134705_s1
Excerpt from Abstract:
To clarify:
An electrolyte does not conduct. Chemical reactions occur at the electrodes
that accept and give up electrons. Current flows through the metal conductors
between the anode and cathode.
When I say that the voltage drop occurs withing around 1nm of the electrode
(the debye length),
Hey Mark,
Very interesting links (although I dont have full access to the second one).
From: zeropo...@charter.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:SPAWAR has yet to respond re simple error in claims of
effects of external high voltage dc fields inside a conducting electrolyte:
At 07:26 PM 7/3/2012, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
There was one figure which shows the visual manifestations
photographed from the experiments, with the theoretical model of the
E-flds (on the right). It was very clear that fields were present
in the electrolyte, as one could see the
At 08:02 PM 7/3/2012, Finlay MacNab wrote:
To clarify:
An electrolyte does not conduct. Chemical reactions occur at the
electrodes that accept and give up electrons. Current flows through
the metal conductors between the anode and cathode.
An electrolyte does conduct. That is, there is
Here are my two cents from reading up on dielectrics:
With the 6000 V capacitor isolated from the electrolyte by the
plastic, the electrolyte acts as a dielectric which reduces the E
field in the electrolyte almost to zero in the middle but increases
the the capacitance of the capacitor.
If
At 11:47 PM 7/2/2012, Rich Murray wrote:
Robert V. Duncan shows a slide from SPAWAR Navy lab (Pamela
Mosier-Boss) that claims a 6 kv DC electric field from plates external
to a wet conducting electrolyte has effects within the electrolyte --
but the reality in simple electrostatics is the
I think your assessment is spot on Jeff.
The only question in my mind is whether or not the mixing of the electrolyte
caused by the evolution of gas at the working electrode might generate a
varying electric field by redistributing the ions in solution.
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 23:17:01 -0400
At 10:17 PM 7/3/2012, Jeff Driscoll wrote:
Here are my two cents from reading up on dielectrics:
With the 6000 V capacitor isolated from the electrolyte by the
plastic, the electrolyte acts as a dielectric which reduces the E
field in the electrolyte almost to zero in the middle but increases
Sorry, I fail to see why the voltage drop is 3kv across the acrylic layer. Why
is that exactly?
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:49:25 -0500
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: a...@lomaxdesign.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:SPAWAR has yet to respond re simple error in claimsof
effects
I'm glad to see my post has ignited a local hot spot in Vortex-L...
Lomax: Um, very highly unlikely. The plastic walls are intact, or
electrolyte would leak out. They have high dielectric resistance. If
this is acrylic, it's about 1/16 inch thick. Current will be very,
very low. If there is
MacNap: It should be noted that in an electrolyte the current results
from a chemical reaction at the anode and cathode (in this case the
generation of hydrogen and oxygen) there are no free charge carriers
in the solution itself. The cations and anions are bound together by
electrostatic
Here's a good PDF for the static dielectric constants of electrolytes.
http://downloads.olisystems.com/ResourceCD/MixedSolventElectrolytes/Dielectr
ic.pdf
ABD wrote:
A 'dielectric' is an insulator. The electrolyte is not an insulator. This
system is like two capacitors with a common
SPAWAR has yet to respond re simple error in claims of effects of
external high voltage dc fields inside a conducting electrolyte: Rich
Murray 2012.03.01 2012.07.02
Coldfusionnow.org posted the following video today: 68 minutes April, 2012
Robert Duncan discusses experiments at Sidney Kimmel
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