Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I found that Nelson report reporting KCO3 usage by DGT http://ecatnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Summary-of-Visit-to-Defkalion.pdf Key point claimed by DGT, like did ENEA at ICCF15 is that NAE are linked to crystallography structure. ENEA talk of 100 vs 101 (seems to be cutting plan family, but I'm incompetent). DGT added they need of some vacancies in the crystal... Celani treatment should be studied around that idea maybe. 2013/5/29 Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation
If CB signal controls the eCat (which I doubt) then the problems of overheating, positive feedback will be solved easily. This is not the case. Otherwise a CB radio amateur could solve the eCat control issue if it was so easy and COP infinite. If EM enhances the reaction rate, then it should at a low frequency regarding the material used by Rossi to make its eCat. _ From: David L Babcock [mailto:ol...@rochester.rr.com] Sent: jeudi 30 mai 2013 02:57 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation If plenty of power is available, and stringent RF interference specs don't need to be met, the simple wires will work fine. But I must admit an engineer would always use a coax for such a task. But maybe not an engineer who is trying to obsfucate On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible . The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation
I notice that in the pictures they are twisted pairs; could it be a transmission line. --On Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:57 PM -0400 David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: If plenty of power is available, and stringent RF interference specs don't need to be met, the simple wires will work fine. But I must admit an engineer would always use a coax for such a task. But maybe not an engineer who is trying to obsfucate On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible … The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. __ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? __ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction... so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. * It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. * 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in high thermal contact with the cylinder. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo-chemical modification of the surface to create the NAEs in high number on the inner textured Ni surface. Then, cold weld one end of the cylinder closed. Calculate the amount of metal hydride needed to release the desired pressure of H2 into the cylinder when it is heated and put this powder inside the cylinder. Cold weld seal the second end closed. Viola! You have a hotCat reactor core. Rossi has also described his cat and mouse where the mouse was added to enhance the performance of the hotCat. An easy speculation for this would be that he could take some of his previous Rossi micro-Ni + catalyst powder and add that as well to the hotCat as a means to help the reaction begin from a lower temperature. I believe the cylindrical outer heaters are just resistor coils embedded in a high thermal conductivity ceramic. Comments?
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in high thermal contact with the cylinder. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. * It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. * 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
If the reactor is entangled globally as indicated in nanoplasmonic theory, heat transfer would be isothermal based on super fluidic heat transfer. The hydrogen would be the same temperature as the powder. and so would the walls of the inner reactor tube. The secret sauce may be used to produce dynamic NAE formation through the creation of nanoparticle strings. Alkali metals will serve this function in the 500C to 1500C heat range. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. ** ** Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. - We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. - When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. - It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. - 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron* *** Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically contain nitric acid which will also attack the iron, but not the nickel. The result could be a nanotextured Ni inner surface of the 310 SS cylinder with perhaps a micro-scale Ni fur in *high thermal contact with the cylinder*. There may be further chemical texturing of the inner surface or nanopowder added as part of a thermo-chemical modification of the surface to create the NAEs in high number on the inner textured Ni surface. ** ** Then, cold weld one end of the cylinder closed. Calculate the amount of metal hydride needed to release the desired pressure of H2 into the cylinder when it is heated and put this powder inside the cylinder. Cold weld seal the second end closed. Viola! You have a hotCat reactor core.* *** ** ** Rossi has also described his cat and mouse where the mouse was added to enhance the performance of the hotCat. An easy speculation for this would be that he could take some of his previous Rossi micro-Ni + catalyst powder and add that as well to the hotCat as a means to help the reaction begin from a lower temperature. ** ** I believe the
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Ed, Is sintering necessarily bad? Could the sintering have also occurred to a lesser scale on the earlier ecat and actually be part of the NAE formation? Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction... so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder. * It is highly desirable to have high thermal conductivity between the NAEs and the outer metal cylinder. You wouldn't get this with loose powder on the inside. * 310 stainless is ~25% chromium, ~21% Ni, and the balance mostly iron Consider what Celani has done - taken a Ni-Cu alloy wire and etched out the Cu to realize the surface nanotexturing, thus creating NAEs on the wire outer surface. Suppose we took the 310 stainless cylinder and used a chromium etch on the inner surface. Chrome etches typically
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. ** ** Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. **· **We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. **· **When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I wrote: That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. I mean the Double Structured (DS) cathodes. Those things were crammed full of Pd black, according to McKubre. I think he said that. Cramming them full ensured good contact with the walls. The walls were also Pd, used as a hydrogen filter. Some people suspected the Pd in the wall was reacting, along with the Pd black. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Fran, I have heated Ni many times and did not observe the sintering to produce LENR. It only creats a brick of material. Sintering can be prevented if the surface is partly oxidized or covered with a compound. I suspect Rossi has created a compound containing NI on the surface that forms the gaps I claim are important. If this is the case, the powder probably will not sinter. Unfortunately, we can only guess. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:06 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, Is sintering necessarily bad? Could the sintering have also occurred to a lesser scale on the earlier ecat and actually be part of the NAE formation? Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out of the cylinder
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
In the Arata experiment, when the powder melted, the reaction stopped. In dynamic NAE creation, when the NAE is destroyed, new NAEs take its place and the cycle is constant. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. I mean the Double Structured (DS) cathodes. Those things were crammed full of Pd black, according to McKubre. I think he said that. Cramming them full ensured good contact with the walls. The walls were also Pd, used as a hydrogen filter. Some people suspected the Pd in the wall was reacting, along with the Pd black. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. · We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. · When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. · We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. · When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction. That's not a fact I know. _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.** ** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black box is pure guess. Rossi is an engineer. Engineers try to make their devices as efficient as possible. This design is not efficient for applying EM of any frequency. Therefore, I doubt this is being done here. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html . You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction. That’s not a fact I know. From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. *Why such a large cylinder?* - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. -mark From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat If the powder sinters, I suppose: That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We are told that the central reactor core is a 310 stainless steel cylinder ( 3cm by 33cm). There is no port for introduction of H2. The ends are cold welded closed. * When the test device was sawed open, only a miniscule amount of powder came out. This cannot be the active powder - it would have melted as loose powder rather than conveying the heat out
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
With such a small amount of powder involved, a supercharge heat transfer mechanism must be in play. I say that the system is super fluidic. There are pictures of the inside of the tube and it looks smooth. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Jed asked: Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. **Why such a large cylinder?** ** ** - most likely would be to get the necessary surface area to adequately transfer the heat from interior to exterior. ** ** -mark ** ** *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:11 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** If the powder sinters, I suppose: ** ** That's good because it is what makes the powder stick to the wall. ** ** That's bad because it reduces surface area. This is what caused Arata's pure Pd black cells to stop working after a while. ** ** Takahashi said it was not the high temperature but rather the chemical action of hydrogen on the metal that caused the particles to stick together. ** ** I guess when they open the cell they have to scrape out the powder. Question: assuming it really is 0.3 g, what is the likely volume? Nowhere near enough to fill the cylinder. Why such a large cylinder? Maybe because that's what he has in stock. - Jed ** **
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.* *** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. ** ** As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.** ** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible . The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
They stated that the chemical was potassium carbide or some other carbon potassium combo. Carbon will also make nana-particles when the compound vaporizes. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: ** Ed, ** ** I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. ** ** Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* **vortex-l@eskimo.com** *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. ** ** We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. ** ** These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** ** ** ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
K2CO3 ? _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:49 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat They stated that the chemical was potassium carbide or some other carbon potassium combo. Carbon will also make nana-particles when the compound vaporizes. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction. so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
OK, if you ask me to guess, I suspect the black box applies a variable power to the resistors in an effort to achieve the best average temperature for producing power without run away occurring. Dave is attempting to determine this waveform using his SPICE method. This variation needs to match the thermal impedance of the device. Rossi wants to keep this secret and also generate a distraction for people with excessive imagination. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I think that compound was also used in the high school reactor. They claim a COP of 4. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: K2CO3 ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:49 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** They stated that the chemical was potassium carbide or some other carbon potassium combo. Carbon will also make nana-particles when the compound vaporizes. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: OK, can anyone from DGT verify that potassium is required to make Ni nuclear active? If so, what chemical form is used? ** ** Ed Storms ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Axil Axil wrote: DGT has already stated that they use potassium. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. ** ** How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. ** ** Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. ** ** Ed Storms ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Axil, you make your statements with great certainty. Have you ever actually studied Ni and successfully caused LENR? I have and I do not see the behavior you claim must occur. ** ** Ed Storms ** ** On May 29, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Axil Axil wrote: EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** ** ** Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
There are two ways to form a NAE: fixed of dynamic. If a fixed NAE cannot exist at 2000C, then the NAE must be dynamic On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.* *** We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com ] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
The SCRs will give a giant di/dt but only once per cycle of the mains. From: Arnaud Kodeck [mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:34 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bemailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.commailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don't recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it's own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction... so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly reduces the possibilities to anyone familiar with the materials science of this material. Rossi is gradually letting the cat out of the bag, whether he wants to or not. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: I would like to submit my speculation about the latest Rossi hotCat for discussion on Vortex-l. * We
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall of the stainless tube. In addition, at the temperatures used, the Ni powder would sinter and not be easily to remove. As for modifying the stainless using chemical etch, I doubt this would be effective. This texture would have to be active initially and remain unchanged at high temperature. Such textures are not stable and would not survive the high temperature. Rossi has done something to the Ni powder that is very stable and not affected by high temperature. This fact alone greatly
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On May 29, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Axil Axil wrote: There are two ways to form a NAE: fixed of dynamic. If a fixed NAE cannot exist at 2000C, then the NAE must be dynamic First of all, 2000° is above the melting point of Ni and stainless steel. Once either melted, the reaction would stop regardless of your conclusion. Second, why do you think the NAE is not stable at the temperatures used by Rossi? Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Bob, this is a good analysis of a possible design. You are right, the powder must make good thermal contact with the wall for the nuclear reaction to be controlled by temperature. Just how Rossi makes this happen is unknown. Nevertheless, most of the active nickel must be attached to the inner wall
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
EM stimulation was discussed at length last week. Here is a summary: There is evidence and statements from Rossi that RF was used *at one time*, but we have NO evidence of that with the current design. The consensus last week was that the internal stainless steel cylinder is a Faraday cage, shielding the interior of the reactor from any EM fields beyond a few hundred Hz; perhaps much less. So this is probably NOT very likely with the new design. The non-magnetic (austenitic) 310 stainless steel WILL allow a static or VLF mag-field thru. This is probably the only remaining possibility for any kind of external 'field' influence. The magnetic field from the resistance heaters would penetrate the stainless steel. however, eddy currents from oscillating mag-flds would limit that influence to very low frequency; the PWM control would result in an ON/OFF static fld at the same duty cycle as is applied to the heaters. If a mag-fld 'assist' is being used, it would certainly explain the *NEED* for continued electrical power. If heat is ALL that is necessary to start and maintain the reaction, then the simplest design would use the suggestion that it be run in positive feedback mode and use a modulated heat extraction design to keep the temp within operating levels. So a fld assist does explain the added complexity and need for continued wall-socket power. -Mark Iverson From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:31 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black box is pure guess. Rossi is an engineer. Engineers try to make their devices as efficient as possible. This design is not efficient for applying EM of any frequency. Therefore, I doubt this is being done here. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction. That's not a fact I know. _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud _ From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
At 2000C the clustering of potassium is large enough to exclude the requirement that nickel must nucleate the NAE. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Axil Axil wrote: There are two ways to form a NAE: fixed of dynamic. If a fixed NAE cannot exist at 2000C, then the NAE must be dynamic First of all, 2000° is above the melting point of Ni and stainless steel. Once either melted, the reaction would stop regardless of your conclusion. Second, why do you think the NAE is not stable at the temperatures used by Rossi? Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Fixed NAE theory cannot explain the Cause of the meltdown of the Rossi reactor. Ed seems to ignore this clue. I ignore the clue because I do not think it is a clue. Only dynamic NAE creation can explain this meltdown process. Again, you say this with certainty. Please show why you are so sure. Ed Storms On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? ** ** -- *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE. We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produced. We know that the NAE is stable at these temperatures. We know that the generated power increases with increased temperature. Therefore, a positive feedback is operating. We know that Rossi attempts to control this feedback by controlling the temperature. We know that the power source responds rapidly to the external temperature. Therefore, good thermal contact exists between the source and the thermal sink. We can suspect that no additional source of energy or stimulation is applied to the power source other than temperature. These are the only facts I can identify. Did I miss anything? Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: ** ** Ed, you make a good case that something improves the thermal bond of the powder to the inner walls.. perhaps the function of the secret sauce.. I don’t recall the volume of the powder used but am under the impression it fills most of the reactor tube and therefore must also have good thermal bond through it’s own bulk to reach the reactor walls. I think the MAHG was a weak easily compromised cousin to this device with only a thin sputtered layer on the inner wall of the tube while Rossi has designed a way to stack NAE out into a bulk form away from the reactor wall. I gathered from the thread that very little powder spilled out when they cut it open after destruction… so would assume the bonding held the powder inside as a foam or gelatinous solid? Can we assume the secret sauce must bind the powder into some form of solid. I am leaning toward an open foam like malted milk balls but a recent thread also suggested a gelatinous colloid. Fran *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
I agree, the clues do not look good for RF. Rossi must have given up on RF when he went to the Cat and Mouse design. You can’t have everything Cat, Mouse and RF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:05 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: EM stimulation was discussed at length last week. Here is a summary: ** ** There is evidence and statements from Rossi that RF was used **at one time **, but we have NO evidence of that with the current design. ** ** The consensus last week was that the internal stainless steel cylinder is a Faraday cage, shielding the interior of the reactor from any EM fields beyond a few hundred Hz; perhaps much less. So this is probably NOT very likely with the new design. ** ** The non-magnetic (austenitic) 310 stainless steel WILL allow a static or VLF mag-field thru. This is probably the only remaining possibility for any kind of external ‘field’ influence. The magnetic field from the resistance heaters would penetrate the stainless steel… however, eddy currents from oscillating mag-flds would limit that influence to very low frequency; the PWM control would result in an ON/OFF static fld at the same duty cycle as is applied to the heaters. ** ** If a mag-fld ‘assist’ is being used, it would certainly explain the **NEED ** for continued electrical power. If heat is ALL that is necessary to start and maintain the reaction, then the simplest design would use the suggestion that it be run in positive feedback mode and use a modulated heat extraction design to keep the temp within operating levels. So a fld assist does explain the added complexity and need for continued wall-socket power. ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:31 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat ** ** Amaud, I have no doubt EM stimulation will enhance the LENR reaction. The only question is whether Rossi is successfully applying such stimulation. Based on the design of the hot-e-Cat, I do not see any indication of EM being applied. The suggestion hat it is being created in the black box is pure guess. Rossi is an engineer. Engineers try to make their devices as efficient as possible. This design is not efficient for applying EM of any frequency. Therefore, I doubt this is being done here. ** ** ** ** ** ** Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: The EM stimulation may not need to be at a high frequency level. That could be superwave as discussed here http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg80933.html. You say that the Ni/H reaction has shown no need of EM stimulation but that was always at a low rate reaction. The secret Rossi sauce could be somewhere there. EM stimulation could enhance the rate of the reaction.*** * That’s not a fact I know. -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:14 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Amaud, we do not know this is as a fact. That conclusion is only proposed. We only know the black box controls the temperature INSIDE, probably in a complex way. The Ni-H2 reaction has shown no need in the past for EM stimulation. In any case, the design limits the frequency to a very narrow and presumably unproductive range. If Rossi wanted to apply stimulation, he chose a very poor design, which I doubt he would do if this stimulation were important. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud -- *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.comstor...@ix.netcom.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:53 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Cc:* Edmund Storms *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Fran, I would not guess how Rossi bonds the powder to the wall, only that this must be done. A secret sauce is applied before the Ni is placed in the e-Cat in order to create the NAE. You need to identify how many additional secret sauces you think are involved. He also places a hydride in the tube to supply hydrogen. This material also might have an effect. I suggest speculation about things we have no way of knowing is not productive. Let's discuss what is real and required by nature for the observed effect to be produced. We know Rossi activates the Ni before it is used, i.e. creates the NAE.*** * We know this powder must make good thermal contact with the wall. We know that Ni powder
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Mark, according to my understanding, ANY material can be made nuclear active as long as H+ can dissolve in the material. The challenge is to know what change has to occur too create the NAE. Each theory suggests a different change. Simply making alloys is a waste of time unless this additional step is understood and implemented. Very little progress has been made because people are searching for the wrong variable. Until the method to create the NAE is discovered, no material will produce a reliable nuclear reaction. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 3:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
no, no, no...cheese power requires a cheese sauce! ;-) Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On May 29, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Axil Axil wrote: You did not use the potassium based secret sauce that Rossi uses. How do you know his sauce is potassium based? Without the ability to create potassium clusters, the reaction is weak. Using only hydrogen clusters will not support a vigorous reaction. Again you say this with great certainty. Have you actually tried this idea and does it work? If so, please publish the results. Ed Storms
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Harry, I suggest you consult the literature. Addition of Cu LOWERS the mp of Ni. Ni and Cu form a continuous soild solution. The melting point is close to being linear between 1083° and 1453°, the mp of Ni. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat
Really? I did consult the literature a few weeks ago. My memory is playing tricks on me. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Harry, I suggest you consult the literature. Addition of Cu LOWERS the mp of Ni. Ni and Cu form a continuous soild solution. The melting point is close to being linear between 1083° and 1453°, the mp of Ni. Ed Storms On May 29, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 5:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: We know that Ni powder sinters at the temperature being produce What about adding some small amount of some other element to raise the sintering/melting temp; commonly done in alloying. OOTB suggestion... Anyone ever tried an alloy of Ni and Pd??? Ni and Ti??? LENR works with both, NAE possible with BOTH. -Mark Iverson I know that adding copper to nickel raises the melting point a little. Harry
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB radio RF generation
If plenty of power is available, and stringent RF interference specs don't need to be met, the simple wires will work fine. But I must admit an engineer would always use a coax for such a task. But maybe not an engineer who is trying to obsfucate On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible ... The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE. *From:*Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:43 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat Why else would Rossi say that the output of his control box was a trade secret? A DC feed of a internal heater is not a trade secret. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Axil, I doubt that the actual design of the eCat is able to bring CB range signal from electrical heating system. Or where else ? *From:*Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com mailto:janap...@gmail.com] *Sent:* mercredi 29 mai 2013 22:08 *To:* vortex-l *Subject:* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat EMF simulation in the CB range will form nanoparticles (aka clusters). Potassium is the best candidate for the formation of dynamic NAE through nanoparticle formation when stimulated by EMF. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Ed, I think you forget to add the EM stimulation controlled by the black box between wall socket and the eCat. Arnaud
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Speculation about hotCat CB band
Whoops! Hit the send button instead of spell check. ... obfuscate things, hide IP. Might take a chance at spilling some CB band junk just to mislead casual observation. Jeez, this sounds like we're beating the fraud horse. No, no, it's back to how does he stimulate/control ECat. Ol' Bab On 5/29/2013 4:47 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: To bring CB signal, the wires have to be shielded. The impedance must match in all system. Attenuation of CB signal must be kept as low as possible ... The simple wires from the black box to the eCat doesn't meet those requirements. It's common sense for an EE.
