RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Well - I would suggest writing to ZG directly - to ask what catalyst Norront now favors… However, I have heard that he is not responsive to questions which involve trade secrets. Which stands to reason – after all they do plan to go to market with a commercial product. From: Teslaalset I watched his presentation via YouTube, but it was not mentioned there (including the questions part). Check Zeiner-Gundersen’s presentation at ICCF-21. Not sure but it could have come out in later questioning. "In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement." ➢ What is the source of this statement?
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I watched his presentation via YouTube, but it was not mentioned there (including the questions part). On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 2:06 PM JonesBeene wrote: > Check Zeiner-Gundersen’s presentation at ICCF-21. Not sure but it could > have come out in later questioning. > > > > > > *From: *Teslaalset > > > > "In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have > meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron > oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement." > > > > What is the source of this statement? > > > > > > >
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Check Zeiner-Gundersen’s presentation at ICCF-21. Not sure but it could have come out in later questioning. From: Teslaalset "In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement." What is the source of this statement?
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
"In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement." What is the source of this statement? On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 5:00 PM JonesBeene wrote: > Here is a bit of a shocker if you haven’t been following this breaking > news closely. > > > > The connection of Mizuno to the Holmlid UDD (ultra dense deuterium) > phenomenon may be closer than most observers are aware. > > > > Late last year – after the earthquake – Mizuno supplied a test reactor to > Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen and the Norront Fusion group – the main licensee of > Holmlid. > > > > https://coldfusionnow.org/tadahiko-mizuno-rewards-community/ > > > > Ruby confirms this in the Olafsson podcast. It may not have been the > latest reactor version with the “Aladdin effect” (the magic effect of > rubbing the genie’s lamp) but given all that has transpired recently – how > long would it take a researcher to add this detail? > > > > Few hours at most if you have the nickel mesh and a bit of Pd. > > > > In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have > meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron > oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement. > > > > That was last winter. Could that improvements have been made already using > either the Mizuno mesh or else a mechanical alloying of Pd and iron oxide? > > > > Prediction – we should be hearing something soon from Norront to confirm > the Mizuno collaboration and hopefully with even better results… > > > > > > > > > > Another looming possibility is that only sparse nuclear fusion reactions > are happening but most of the thermal gain comes from BEC dominated > processes where mass is converted into energy in such a way that the > thermal gain is more than chemical but less than fusion. Most likely the > excess mass being converted is related to strong force dynamics via > Quantum Chromodynamics. > > > > It seems likely that nickel does not promote fusion and the tiny amount of > palladium is insufficient for the large amount of heat Mizuno is seeing. > > > > The possibility of non-fusion QCD reactions is hinted at in the > previously cited Hora paper but it is not their interpretation. “Surface > Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for Low Energy Nuclear > Reactions LENR” By Heinrich Hora, George H Miley, Mark A Prelas, Kyu Jung > Kim and Xiaoling Yang > > > > This paper keeps turning up because of the “micrograin palladium” > parameter – in contrast to bulk Pd. It is all about clustering of bosons > which can lead to fusion on rare occasion, but otherwise most of the heat > of the process can derive from the clustering dynamics of the high > temperature BEC. > > > > Curiously, the microcracking structure popularized by Ed Storms could > relate to the same NON-fusion pathway for gain despite his insistence > otherwise. Quantum Chromodynamics can be seen a natural outcome of a > disturbance in the large deuterium cluster – the very tight packing in the > BEC which can be hundreds of atoms. > > > > According to the paper - deuterons collect in the cracks as a > condensate, in extremely dense accumulations at room temperature but > fuse rarely due to their low colliding energy of several 10 meV. However, > this is sufficiently high that van-der-Waals forces or the increased > Casimir forces at the pm distance may lead to the fluid state where > deuterons clinch together tp form clusters and then oscillate in and out > of the BEC state. > > > > It should be noted, that clusters with 100 deuterons of the size of one > crystal void (Schottky defect) were measured in palladium ... These states > could directly be identified from the deuteron emission energy of 630 eV > from clear measured mass > > spectrometry. > > > > Wow – they clearly measured this level of gain which cannot be related to > fusion. 630 eV is a huge amount of energy compared to chemical but tiny for > a nuclear processl - and yet it can derive from a bulk clustering process > where the only radiation would be extreme UV radiation and eventually lots > of heat. > > > > > > - > > > > Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a > very > > small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a > honeycomb > > pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal > > sheets. > > > > This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > > > local asymmetry = temporary success > > > > > > >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I wrote: > It increases the output/input ratio (COP) simply because it takes less > electric power to heat the inside to the same temperature. > That has no scientific significance. I just thought I should add it to the list.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
JonesBeene wrote: If the main function of the Mizuno heater wire (very thin resistance wire) > was merely to raise the gas temperature of the reactor – then an external > heater could do the same. > Note that he did use an external heater before, and it worked, but nowhere near as well. Perhaps an IR effect enhances the reaction, but it does not seem essential. Others have speculated that putting the heater inside increases thermal gradients, which may help. It increases the output/input ratio (COP) simply because it takes less electric power to heat the inside to the same temperature. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I wrote: > I asked Mizuno what sort of sheath heater he uses. He uses a 500 W model, > such as the Flexible heater "M2 type micro heater" available at this > website: > By the way, the 500 W version is 2 m long. I don't know how he folded it to fit it into the cell. I asked him. 500 W: https://www.monotaro.com/p/7075/6017/
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
H LV wrote: Commercial for Kyukyuto. > > https://youtu.be/W4rOA20hZvw > I love it!
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Commercial for Kyukyuto. https://youtu.be/W4rOA20hZvw Harry On Wed., Jun. 19, 2019, 8:49 p.m. Jed Rothwell, wrote: > > > By the way, the name of that detergent is cute. It is Kyukyuto which is > the sound clean wet dishes make when you wife them. Kyu! Kyu! Literally and > figuratively cute. > >
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
If the main function of the Mizuno heater wire (very thin resistance wire) was merely to raise the gas temperature of the reactor – then an external heater could do the same. However, if the more important function of the heater wire is to provide a IR light source for plasmon/polariton formation on the nickel mesh, then that scenario will explain elegantly the importance of a low pressure gas fill which matches the wavelength of the IR emission. It is very likely that the mean free path of the deuterons in the low pressure gas is indeed resonant with the IR wavelength of the photon emission from the heater when high COP is reached- or else it is big coincidence that the two match. There is almost no reason to chose a thin wire heater other than to achieve a desired IR emission. In fact, it is easy to calculate a specific mean free path MFP within Mizuno’s parameters which is exactly identical to the IR wavelength at say 300 C - or at any temperature within the published parameters. It would probably be advantageous to figure out in advance a target range of pressure and wire temperature which are resonant - in advance in order to quickly reach an optimal operating regime. Jones Here is a further comment about the Mizuno heater and its possible non-obvious functionality. Think of the heater as a IR light source. The heat is actually not the purpose so much as the photons, which may be close to coherency at the best setting. IOW the “heater” may server the same purpose as a filament on an incandescent lightbulb and the “light” in question is in the IR range and semi-coherent. There ha been a lot of speculation over the years that plasmon/polaritons play a role in LENR. Brillion was promoting this plasmon/polariton at one time but they have not been able to show anything near as exciting as the Mizuno. This may also be the reason for the very low pressure fill – maintaining the coherence ! From: Jed Rothwell I asked Mizuno what sort of sheath heater he uses. He uses a 500 W model, such as the Flexible heater "M2 type micro heater"
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Here is a further comment about the Mizuno heater and its possible non-obvious functionality. Think of the heater as a IR light source. The heat is actually not the purpose so much as the photons, which may be close to coherency at the best setting. IOW the “heater” may server the same purpose as a filament on an incandescent lightbulb and the “light” in question is in the IR range and semi-coherent. There ha been a lot of speculation over the years that plasmon/polaritons play a role in LENR. Brillion was promoting this plasmon/polariton at one time but they have not been able to show anything near as exciting as the Mizuno. This may also be the reason for the very low pressure fill – maintaining the coherence ! From: Jed Rothwell I asked Mizuno what sort of sheath heater he uses. He uses a 500 W model, such as the Flexible heater "M2 type micro heater"
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I asked Mizuno what sort of sheath heater he uses. He uses a 500 W model, such as the Flexible heater "M2 type micro heater" available at this website: https://www.monotaro.com/g/03032749/ He says they are all pretty much the same, so he goes by price. I would add that it has to withstand high temperatures. I will add this info to the paper. The Monotaro web page Google translates well: Flex Heater "M2 Type Micro Heater" Because the outer diameter is extremely thin, it can be installed in places where mounting is not possible with a sheath heater. The heater is thin and flexible, so it can be easily bent and wound. (Minimum bending radius: 3 times outer diameter of sheath) Finished in a thin tube and has a small heat capacity, so the temperature of the heating element is transmitted immediately. The resistance per unit length is constant. A variety of sheath outer diameter heating elements are available. Sleeves can be attached to both ends according to the customer's usage conditions. The sheath uses a metal capillary SUS316, so it is highly durable even at high temperatures. >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I am particularly excited about the role of rubbing in device processing. It was used by Nichia Corp in processing the first blue LEDs in 1995. No rubbing- no blue light lasing! The rubbing causes nanoscale features to form and hold atoms in that region in a condition that prevents solid-solid phase transitions. They are left in a dynamic condition with large vibrational modes. MIT professor (retired), Keith Johnson described these conditions in a Jahn-Teller formalism. From: Jed Rothwell Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:10 PM To: Vortex Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat I wrote: By the way, the name of that detergent is cute. It is Kyukyuto which is the sound clean wet dishes make when you wife them. Kyu! Kyu! WIPE them. Not wife. That has to be some kind of Freudian slip. Ahem, let's keep this here, shall we? What happens in Vortex stays in Vortex. I wouldn't want that particular remark to . . . uh, to get back to my wipe. Wife!
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I wrote: > By the way, the name of that detergent is cute. It is Kyukyuto which is > the sound clean wet dishes make when you wife them. Kyu! Kyu! > WIPE them. Not wife. That has to be some kind of Freudian slip. Ahem, let's keep this here, shall we? What happens in Vortex stays in Vortex. I wouldn't want that particular remark to . . . uh, to get back to my wipe. Wife!
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Jack Cole wrote: He probably needs to include more data. > There is lots more data in the first paper.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
H LV wrote: In your paper you describe a certain brand of orange scented detergent. Do > you think a successful replication requires it? Harry > See p. 18: It is not clear whether the choice of detergent or the type of plastic in the scrubbing brush has an effect on the outcome of this experiment. However, cold fusion is usually sensitive to materials, and the cause of the reaction is not known, so we recommend that people trying to replicate use similar materials, including a detergent with a similar formula. Also, as noted above, we recommend an air-flow calorimeter. In other words, who knows? But if it don't work, try that stuff. At least check to see if your detergent has similar ingredients. I say you should start by doing the closest replication you can. If it works, you can then try all kinds of variations to see if you can improve it. But you start by following the instructions to the letter. By the way, the name of that detergent is cute. It is Kyukyuto which is the sound clean wet dishes make when you wife them. Kyu! Kyu! Literally and figuratively cute.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
> > It is a normal heating curve! It is a calibration. It looks pretty bumpy > to me. That's ambient temp fluctuations, I think. Not so. I used the data from his active run to create that chart. He re-calibrates everything, every time he puts reactors into the box and > seals it up. He does the procedures graphed in the Calorimetry section of > the new paper. The traverse test and so on. He leaves the reactors in for a > long time in some cases. Months. He can recalibrate anytime. > > He also cleans out the fan and does other maintenance before starting a > run. > He probably needs to include more data. We're kind of left taking his word for it. It is such an amazing result that he should at least end with another calibration. On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 7:10 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > Jack Cole wrote: > > It's not really clear to me whether he re-calibrated everything with the >> new reactor. >> > > He re-calibrates everything, every time he puts reactors into the box and > seals it up. He does the procedures graphed in the Calorimetry section of > the new paper. The traverse test and so on. He leaves the reactors in for a > long time in some cases. Months. He can recalibrate anytime. > > He also cleans out the fan and does other maintenance before starting a > run. > > > >> In the first set of experiments (first paper), he had two reactors and >> would switch between them. >> > > Still does. > > > >> The second set, he only shows a 50W calibration and 0W. I graphed input >> power by reactor temp, and it looks awfully uniform (and quite similar to a >> normal heating curve). >> > > It is a normal heating curve! It is a calibration. It looks pretty bumpy > to me. That's ambient temp fluctuations, I think. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
In your paper you describe a certain brand of orange scented detergent. Do you think a successful replication requires it? Harry On Wed., Jun. 19, 2019, 8:23 p.m. Jed Rothwell, wrote: > Axil Axil wrote: > > >> This replication method goes without saying. But what is the plan for >> continuing improvement of this type of reactor? >> > > Here is my plan. First we get a few people to replicate. Then a few more, > say 10. They tell others and 20 more replicate. Then 50 more, then a chain > reaction ensues and thousands of people replicate. At that point, large > corporation begin spending an aggregate of ~$100 million a day on R We > see more progress every month than we have seen in the last 30 years. > > Seriously, that is my plan. That will produce more continuing improvement > than any one person can imagine. Even if someone, somewhere knows how to > improve it, we have no way of knowing who that person is or whether she is > right. So we must have hundreds of thousands of people working on it. > Someone will find an effective way. >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Hi (I've been lurking VortexL since a long time and this is my first contribution - sorry for my poor frenglish) IMO Mizuno is one of the most interesting case in the field of lenr/CF. Much more solid than people like Rossi for example. I wonder why Google CF team doesn't integrate him or try to replicate his work (past and current). Any idea ? Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 21:23, Jed Rothwell a écrit : > > Axil Axil wrote: > >> >> This replication method goes without saying. But what is the plan for >> continuing improvement of this type of reactor? > > > Here is my plan. First we get a few people to replicate. Then a few more, say > 10. They tell others and 20 more replicate. Then 50 more, then a chain > reaction ensues and thousands of people replicate. At that point, large > corporation begin spending an aggregate of ~$100 million a day on R We see > more progress every month than we have seen in the last 30 years. > > Seriously, that is my plan. That will produce more continuing improvement > than any one person can imagine. Even if someone, somewhere knows how to > improve it, we have no way of knowing who that person is or whether she is > right. So we must have hundreds of thousands of people working on it. Someone > will find an effective way.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Axil Axil wrote: > This replication method goes without saying. But what is the plan for > continuing improvement of this type of reactor? > Here is my plan. First we get a few people to replicate. Then a few more, say 10. They tell others and 20 more replicate. Then 50 more, then a chain reaction ensues and thousands of people replicate. At that point, large corporation begin spending an aggregate of ~$100 million a day on R We see more progress every month than we have seen in the last 30 years. Seriously, that is my plan. That will produce more continuing improvement than any one person can imagine. Even if someone, somewhere knows how to improve it, we have no way of knowing who that person is or whether she is right. So we must have hundreds of thousands of people working on it. Someone will find an effective way.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Jack Cole wrote: It's not really clear to me whether he re-calibrated everything with the > new reactor. > He re-calibrates everything, every time he puts reactors into the box and seals it up. He does the procedures graphed in the Calorimetry section of the new paper. The traverse test and so on. He leaves the reactors in for a long time in some cases. Months. He can recalibrate anytime. He also cleans out the fan and does other maintenance before starting a run. > In the first set of experiments (first paper), he had two reactors and > would switch between them. > Still does. > The second set, he only shows a 50W calibration and 0W. I graphed input > power by reactor temp, and it looks awfully uniform (and quite similar to a > normal heating curve). > It is a normal heating curve! It is a calibration. It looks pretty bumpy to me. That's ambient temp fluctuations, I think. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
JonesBeene wrote: This experiment is so similar to what has been done before over 30 years – > what is the one detail which makes it so much more robust? > Mizuno has some ideas about that which I hope to translate and put in a new paper soon. Ed Storms thinks it is the Pd mechanically bound to the Ni. Is "mechanical" the word I am looking for? Not what he said . . . I mean forced together rather than, say, melted together. He thinks the Pd expands more with loading than the Ni, and that creates cracks in the Ni. As you know, he thinks microscopic cracks are where the reaction occurs. Most curiously – Mizuno indicates that LOADING of deuterium is no longer an > important parameter. > I find that astounding. I looked at the data and could hardly believe it. I spent a day or two recreating Mizuno's graphs and making other graphs to be sure that's what it showed. Mizuno, on the other hand, seems nonchalant. He has some material science explanations that I hope to translate soon. As I mentioned here, the gist of it is that high loading in the Ni inhibits adsorption in the Ni surface and the Ni-Pd interface. That's where he thinks the reaction occurs. Ed also thinks that's where it occurs. I still think high loading is essential with bulk Pd, but I guess it is a special case, not applicable to all materials. Ed pointed out something long ago that may be relevant. When bulk Pd is in heat after death, the D emerge. Loading falls. It seems likely the excess heat continues even when loading falls below the minimum level in McKubre's graph. In other words, the heat does not actually need high loading. Maybe what it needs is high loading to start up, but then high loading on the surface and near surface as D emerges and "crowds" the near surface. That's about my limit when it comes to theory! - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Many thanks to Jed. His long connection to Mizuno is valuable for sharing research with others. Bob Cook From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:38:26 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat My guess is that the 2-D layers create 2-D systems of Pd with high magnetic fields and resulting in a BEC of paired D which are coupled to the electrons of the Ni mesh. The spin energy of the Ni isotopes and maybe the Pd isotopes is given up to the lattice electrons of the Ni isotopes with nuclear transmutations and respective energy loss. I am not sure I understand the reaction Jones suggests regarding D emissions at 630 ev. I think the nuclear transmissions are all EM involving nuclear spin states and associated energy differentials of the various isotopic spin energy. A modification of the magnetic field and resonant conditions which are probably a function of temperature would provide data related to the nuclear reactions taking place. A controlled frequency laser or other fine-tuned EM radiation should be applied with monitoring of energy production. Isotopic shifts should also be monitored as a function of time. Some nuclear magnetic resonance monitors may be gainfully employed to look for isotopic changes. (I doubt Mizuno has such equipment, but no doubt it is readily available from vendors in Japan.} The capabilities of the NMR machines should be available from vendors such as Nananalysis. http://www.nanalysis.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp9G37uf14gIVlcJkCh0e1gyvEAAYASAAEgJEwvD_BwE Bob Cook From: JonesBeene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:01 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat Robin, Another looming possibility is that only sparse nuclear fusion reactions are happening but most of the thermal gain comes from BEC dominated processes where mass is converted into energy in such a way that the thermal gain is more than chemical but less than fusion. Most likely the excess mass being converted is related to strong force dynamics via Quantum Chromodynamics. It seems likely that nickel does not promote fusion and the tiny amount of palladium is insufficient for the large amount of heat Mizuno is seeing. The possibility of non-fusion QCD reactions is hinted at in the previously cited Hora paper but it is not their interpretation. “Surface Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions LENR” By Heinrich Hora, George H Miley, Mark A Prelas, Kyu Jung Kim and Xiaoling Yang This paper keeps turning up because of the “micrograin palladium” parameter – in contrast to bulk Pd. It is all about clustering of bosons which can lead to fusion on rare occasion, but otherwise most of the heat of the process can derive from the clustering dynamics of the high temperature BEC. Curiously, the microcracking structure popularized by Ed Storms could relate to the same NON-fusion pathway for gain despite his insistence otherwise. Quantum Chromodynamics can be seen a natural outcome of a disturbance in the large deuterium cluster – the very tight packing in the BEC which can be hundreds of atoms. According to the paper - deuterons collect in the cracks as a condensate, in extremely dense accumulations at room temperature but fuse rarely due to their low colliding energy of several 10 meV. However, this is sufficiently high that van-der-Waals forces or the increased Casimir forces at the pm distance may lead to the fluid state where deuterons clinch together tp form clusters and then oscillate in and out of the BEC state. It should be noted, that clusters with 100 deuterons of the size of one crystal void (Schottky defect) were measured in palladium ... These states could directly be identified from the deuteron emission energy of 630 eV from clear measured mass spectrometry. Wow – they clearly measured this level of gain which cannot be related to fusion. 630 eV is a huge amount of energy compared to chemical but tiny for a nuclear processl - and yet it can derive from a bulk clustering process where the only radiation would be extreme UV radiation and eventually lots of heat. - Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a very small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a honeycomb pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal sheets. This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Norront is well funded and should be able to use NMR analysis to fully identify isotopic changes. They already have the laser facility to alter magnetic fields and associated resonances. Bob Cook From: JonesBeene Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:00:42 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat Here is a bit of a shocker if you haven’t been following this breaking news closely. The connection of Mizuno to the Holmlid UDD (ultra dense deuterium) phenomenon may be closer than most observers are aware. Late last year – after the earthquake – Mizuno supplied a test reactor to Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen and the Norront Fusion group – the main licensee of Holmlid. https://coldfusionnow.org/tadahiko-mizuno-rewards-community/ Ruby confirms this in the Olafsson podcast. It may not have been the latest reactor version with the “Aladdin effect” (the magic effect of rubbing the genie’s lamp) but given all that has transpired recently – how long would it take a researcher to add this detail? Few hours at most if you have the nickel mesh and a bit of Pd. In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement. That was last winter. Could that improvements have been made already using either the Mizuno mesh or else a mechanical alloying of Pd and iron oxide? Prediction – we should be hearing something soon from Norront to confirm the Mizuno collaboration and hopefully with even better results… Another looming possibility is that only sparse nuclear fusion reactions are happening but most of the thermal gain comes from BEC dominated processes where mass is converted into energy in such a way that the thermal gain is more than chemical but less than fusion. Most likely the excess mass being converted is related to strong force dynamics via Quantum Chromodynamics. It seems likely that nickel does not promote fusion and the tiny amount of palladium is insufficient for the large amount of heat Mizuno is seeing. The possibility of non-fusion QCD reactions is hinted at in the previously cited Hora paper but it is not their interpretation. “Surface Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions LENR” By Heinrich Hora, George H Miley, Mark A Prelas, Kyu Jung Kim and Xiaoling Yang This paper keeps turning up because of the “micrograin palladium” parameter – in contrast to bulk Pd. It is all about clustering of bosons which can lead to fusion on rare occasion, but otherwise most of the heat of the process can derive from the clustering dynamics of the high temperature BEC. Curiously, the microcracking structure popularized by Ed Storms could relate to the same NON-fusion pathway for gain despite his insistence otherwise. Quantum Chromodynamics can be seen a natural outcome of a disturbance in the large deuterium cluster – the very tight packing in the BEC which can be hundreds of atoms. According to the paper - deuterons collect in the cracks as a condensate, in extremely dense accumulations at room temperature but fuse rarely due to their low colliding energy of several 10 meV. However, this is sufficiently high that van-der-Waals forces or the increased Casimir forces at the pm distance may lead to the fluid state where deuterons clinch together tp form clusters and then oscillate in and out of the BEC state. It should be noted, that clusters with 100 deuterons of the size of one crystal void (Schottky defect) were measured in palladium ... These states could directly be identified from the deuteron emission energy of 630 eV from clear measured mass spectrometry. Wow – they clearly measured this level of gain which cannot be related to fusion. 630 eV is a huge amount of energy compared to chemical but tiny for a nuclear processl - and yet it can derive from a bulk clustering process where the only radiation would be extreme UV radiation and eventually lots of heat. - Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a very small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a honeycomb pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal sheets. This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
It's not really clear to me whether he re-calibrated everything with the new reactor. In the first set of experiments (first paper), he had two reactors and would switch between them. The second set, he only shows a 50W calibration and 0W. I graphed input power by reactor temp, and it looks awfully uniform (and quite similar to a normal heating curve). It would be nice to have calibration data to add to the chart. [image: image.png] On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 3:28 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > Here is some more info. from the invoice for the nickel meshes, from Inada > Kanaami, Inc. It says: > > ニッケル200 綾織金網 0.055Ｘ180mesh 200X300 5枚 > > Let me insert commas. That means: > > Nickel 200, twill wire mesh, 0.055 x 180 mesh, 200 x 300, 5 sheets > > Nickel-200 is 99.6% nickel. It is described here: > > https://www.magellanmetals.com/nickel-200 > >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Here is some more info. from the invoice for the nickel meshes, from Inada Kanaami, Inc. It says: ニッケル200 綾織金網 0.055Ｘ180mesh 200X300 5枚 Let me insert commas. That means: Nickel 200, twill wire mesh, 0.055 x 180 mesh, 200 x 300, 5 sheets Nickel-200 is 99.6% nickel. It is described here: https://www.magellanmetals.com/nickel-200
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
My guess is that the 2-D layers create 2-D systems of Pd with high magnetic fields and resulting in a BEC of paired D which are coupled to the electrons of the Ni mesh. The spin energy of the Ni isotopes and maybe the Pd isotopes is given up to the lattice electrons of the Ni isotopes with nuclear transmutations and respective energy loss. I am not sure I understand the reaction Jones suggests regarding D emissions at 630 ev. I think the nuclear transmissions are all EM involving nuclear spin states and associated energy differentials of the various isotopic spin energy. A modification of the magnetic field and resonant conditions which are probably a function of temperature would provide data related to the nuclear reactions taking place. A controlled frequency laser or other fine-tuned EM radiation should be applied with monitoring of energy production. Isotopic shifts should also be monitored as a function of time. Some nuclear magnetic resonance monitors may be gainfully employed to look for isotopic changes. (I doubt Mizuno has such equipment, but no doubt it is readily available from vendors in Japan.} The capabilities of the NMR machines should be available from vendors such as Nananalysis. http://www.nanalysis.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp9G37uf14gIVlcJkCh0e1gyvEAAYASAAEgJEwvD_BwE Bob Cook From: JonesBeene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:01 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat Robin, Another looming possibility is that only sparse nuclear fusion reactions are happening but most of the thermal gain comes from BEC dominated processes where mass is converted into energy in such a way that the thermal gain is more than chemical but less than fusion. Most likely the excess mass being converted is related to strong force dynamics via Quantum Chromodynamics. It seems likely that nickel does not promote fusion and the tiny amount of palladium is insufficient for the large amount of heat Mizuno is seeing. The possibility of non-fusion QCD reactions is hinted at in the previously cited Hora paper but it is not their interpretation. “Surface Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions LENR” By Heinrich Hora, George H Miley, Mark A Prelas, Kyu Jung Kim and Xiaoling Yang This paper keeps turning up because of the “micrograin palladium” parameter – in contrast to bulk Pd. It is all about clustering of bosons which can lead to fusion on rare occasion, but otherwise most of the heat of the process can derive from the clustering dynamics of the high temperature BEC. Curiously, the microcracking structure popularized by Ed Storms could relate to the same NON-fusion pathway for gain despite his insistence otherwise. Quantum Chromodynamics can be seen a natural outcome of a disturbance in the large deuterium cluster – the very tight packing in the BEC which can be hundreds of atoms. According to the paper - deuterons collect in the cracks as a condensate, in extremely dense accumulations at room temperature but fuse rarely due to their low colliding energy of several 10 meV. However, this is sufficiently high that van-der-Waals forces or the increased Casimir forces at the pm distance may lead to the fluid state where deuterons clinch together tp form clusters and then oscillate in and out of the BEC state. It should be noted, that clusters with 100 deuterons of the size of one crystal void (Schottky defect) were measured in palladium ... These states could directly be identified from the deuteron emission energy of 630 eV from clear measured mass spectrometry. Wow – they clearly measured this level of gain which cannot be related to fusion. 630 eV is a huge amount of energy compared to chemical but tiny for a nuclear processl - and yet it can derive from a bulk clustering process where the only radiation would be extreme UV radiation and eventually lots of heat. - Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a very small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a honeycomb pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal sheets. This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Here is a bit of a shocker if you haven’t been following this breaking news closely. The connection of Mizuno to the Holmlid UDD (ultra dense deuterium) phenomenon may be closer than most observers are aware. Late last year – after the earthquake – Mizuno supplied a test reactor to Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen and the Norront Fusion group – the main licensee of Holmlid. https://coldfusionnow.org/tadahiko-mizuno-rewards-community/ Ruby confirms this in the Olafsson podcast. It may not have been the latest reactor version with the “Aladdin effect” (the magic effect of rubbing the genie’s lamp) but given all that has transpired recently – how long would it take a researcher to add this detail? Few hours at most if you have the nickel mesh and a bit of Pd. In fact, it is now becoming evident what Sindre Zeiner-Gundersen may have meant when he said that they are no longer using the Shell catalyst (iron oxide) of Holmlid but have made an improvement. That was last winter. Could that improvements have been made already using either the Mizuno mesh or else a mechanical alloying of Pd and iron oxide? Prediction – we should be hearing something soon from Norront to confirm the Mizuno collaboration and hopefully with even better results… Another looming possibility is that only sparse nuclear fusion reactions are happening but most of the thermal gain comes from BEC dominated processes where mass is converted into energy in such a way that the thermal gain is more than chemical but less than fusion. Most likely the excess mass being converted is related to strong force dynamics via Quantum Chromodynamics. It seems likely that nickel does not promote fusion and the tiny amount of palladium is insufficient for the large amount of heat Mizuno is seeing. The possibility of non-fusion QCD reactions is hinted at in the previously cited Hora paper but it is not their interpretation. “Surface Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions LENR” By Heinrich Hora, George H Miley, Mark A Prelas, Kyu Jung Kim and Xiaoling Yang This paper keeps turning up because of the “micrograin palladium” parameter – in contrast to bulk Pd. It is all about clustering of bosons which can lead to fusion on rare occasion, but otherwise most of the heat of the process can derive from the clustering dynamics of the high temperature BEC. Curiously, the microcracking structure popularized by Ed Storms could relate to the same NON-fusion pathway for gain despite his insistence otherwise. Quantum Chromodynamics can be seen a natural outcome of a disturbance in the large deuterium cluster – the very tight packing in the BEC which can be hundreds of atoms. According to the paper - deuterons collect in the cracks as a condensate, in extremely dense accumulations at room temperature but fuse rarely due to their low colliding energy of several 10 meV. However, this is sufficiently high that van-der-Waals forces or the increased Casimir forces at the pm distance may lead to the fluid state where deuterons clinch together tp form clusters and then oscillate in and out of the BEC state. It should be noted, that clusters with 100 deuterons of the size of one crystal void (Schottky defect) were measured in palladium ... These states could directly be identified from the deuteron emission energy of 630 eV from clear measured mass spectrometry. Wow – they clearly measured this level of gain which cannot be related to fusion. 630 eV is a huge amount of energy compared to chemical but tiny for a nuclear processl - and yet it can derive from a bulk clustering process where the only radiation would be extreme UV radiation and eventually lots of heat. - Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a very small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a honeycomb pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal sheets. This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Robin, Another looming possibility is that only sparse nuclear fusion reactions are happening but most of the thermal gain comes from BEC dominated processes where mass is converted into energy in such a way that the thermal gain is more than chemical but less than fusion. Most likely the excess mass being converted is related to strong force dynamics via Quantum Chromodynamics. It seems likely that nickel does not promote fusion and the tiny amount of palladium is insufficient for the large amount of heat Mizuno is seeing. The possibility of non-fusion QCD reactions is hinted at in the previously cited Hora paper but it is not their interpretation. “Surface Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions LENR” By Heinrich Hora, George H Miley, Mark A Prelas, Kyu Jung Kim and Xiaoling Yang This paper keeps turning up because of the “micrograin palladium” parameter – in contrast to bulk Pd. It is all about clustering of bosons which can lead to fusion on rare occasion, but otherwise most of the heat of the process can derive from the clustering dynamics of the high temperature BEC. Curiously, the microcracking structure popularized by Ed Storms could relate to the same NON-fusion pathway for gain despite his insistence otherwise. Quantum Chromodynamics can be seen a natural outcome of a disturbance in the large deuterium cluster – the very tight packing in the BEC which can be hundreds of atoms. According to the paper - deuterons collect in the cracks as a condensate, in extremely dense accumulations at room temperature but fuse rarely due to their low colliding energy of several 10 meV. However, this is sufficiently high that van-der-Waals forces or the increased Casimir forces at the pm distance may lead to the fluid state where deuterons clinch together tp form clusters and then oscillate in and out of the BEC state. It should be noted, that clusters with 100 deuterons of the size of one crystal void (Schottky defect) were measured in palladium ... These states could directly be identified from the deuteron emission energy of 630 eV from clear measured mass spectrometry. Wow – they clearly measured this level of gain which cannot be related to fusion. 630 eV is a huge amount of energy compared to chemical but tiny for a nuclear processl - and yet it can derive from a bulk clustering process where the only radiation would be extreme UV radiation and eventually lots of heat. - Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a very small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a honeycomb pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal sheets. This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I made some minor changes to the paper and uploaded a new version. Biggest change, p. 12: Rubbing is done with a palladium rod, 100 mm long, diameter 5.0 mm, 99.95% purity. Before rubbing the mesh, weight it with a precision scale. Then vigorously rub the entire surface, left and right and up and down. Turn the mesh over and rub the other side. Weigh the mesh again. Continue until the weight increases by ~50 mg. Some people say the images are blurry. I will check the Acrobat settings.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I have always thought it important to be isotopically pure when it came to the material that is active and participate in the LENR reaction because of quantum mechanical issues. The reason why deuterium is functional in the R20 reactor may be because it is isotopically pure. Protium might work as well in the R20, but that isotope might need to be make isotopically pure before it is used in he R20. Getting pure protium is maybe more expensive than deuterium, just in regards to the way that the isotopes of hydrogen are separated. Ordinary hydrogen may not work in the R20 because it has a significant contaminant of deuterium in its mixture. One of the reasons that H2O is scrupulously cleaned in the R20 flush out procedure is that its protium content is quantum mechanically destructive of the LENR reaction. On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 10:53 PM wrote: > Hi, > > Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a > very > small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a > honeycomb > pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal > sheets. > > This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. > > Regards, > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > local asymmetry = temporary success > >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Hi, Should separation distance between metals prove to be important, then a very small separation between two metal sheets can be obtained by etching a honeycomb pattern into fine gold leaf, and using it to separate the two target metal sheets. This could allow gas pressures as high as 17 atm. to be used if so desired. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Hi, Observation:- When Hydrino formation energy is used to clone more Hydrinos of the same size, the maximum energy gain is a factor of about 6. This is pretty close to what Mizuno is getting. I wonder if he tried Hydrogen vs. Deuterium, and if the result was different? (BTW cloning depends on having atoms not molecules available.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:50:45 -0400: Hi, [snip] >This lack of dense deuterium loading speaks against the old fusion meme, >doesn't it? The working gas pressure is .003 bar. At that pressure the MFP ~= 0.2 mm. Maybe the separation distance between Pd cladding and Ni? In short, it may allow D atoms to migrate from the Pd to the Ni without recombining to molecules. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I wrote: > But, in this system, when you load the Ni high, that reduces or prevents > adsorption into the Ni surface . . . > Onto, not into. People have asked some good questions. I will update the paper to answer them. Such as: Q: How long should I rub the mesh? A: Until the weight increases by ~50 mg.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Axil Axil wrote: This lack of dense deuterium loading speaks against the old fusion meme, > doesn't it? The working gas pressure is .003 bar. > Yup. Mizuno's opinion is that to generate cold fusion in pure Ni, you need to load it as high as possible. But, in this system, when you load the Ni high, that reduces or prevents adsorption into the Ni surface, and the interface between the Ni and Pd. He thinks that is where the reaction occurs in this system. My opinion is that cold fusion doesn't work in pure Ni. I think there is no doubt high loading is essential to the bulk Pd-D system. But apparently it is not a universal rule applying to all cold fusion systems. That was a big surprise to me when I first saw this data. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
This lack of dense deuterium loading speaks against the old fusion meme, doesn't it? The working gas pressure is .003 bar. On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 7:40 PM JonesBeene wrote: > Here is another question for Jed – probably factually unanswerable but > informed opinion will suffice. > > > > This experiment is so similar to what has been done before over 30 years > – what is the one detail which makes it so much more robust? > > > > On the basis of a few reads – it looks to me like the one crucial detail > could be the very thin application of palladium to the nickel mesh by > mechanical action. That would be mind boggling if true. > > > > Most curiously – Mizuno indicates that LOADING of deuterium is no longer > an important parameter. > > > > Bizarre. > > > > >
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
This replication method goes without saying. But what is the plan for continuing improvement of this type of reactor? On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 7:29 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > Axil Axil wrote: > > I would like to suggest and experimental modification as follows: . . . >> > > I would like to suggest that before you make ANY modifications, no matter > how slight, you should first do it exactly the way we told you to. Then, if > it works, go ahead and modify it to your heart's delight. > > - Jed > >
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Here is another question for Jed – probably factually unanswerable but informed opinion will suffice. This experiment is so similar to what has been done before over 30 years – what is the one detail which makes it so much more robust? On the basis of a few reads – it looks to me like the one crucial detail could be the very thin application of palladium to the nickel mesh by mechanical action. That would be mind boggling if true. Most curiously – Mizuno indicates that LOADING of deuterium is no longer an important parameter. Bizarre.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Axil Axil wrote: I would like to suggest and experimental modification as follows: . . . > I would like to suggest that before you make ANY modifications, no matter how slight, you should first do it exactly the way we told you to. Then, if it works, go ahead and modify it to your heart's delight. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
I would like to suggest and experimental modification as follows: Instead of using an internal sheath heater, generate heat by applying a high frequency square wave alternating current directly to the nickel mesh. On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:15 PM Jed Rothwell wrote: > wrote: > > >> A molten salt coolant in a flow calorimeter with an inlet temperature of >> e.g. >> 300 C and an outlet temperature of 300+ C, would allow both accurate >> measurement >> and high power operation concurrently. The whole should be well insulated >> to >> ensure low losses. >> > > That would hold the entire cell at a high temperature, both inside and > outside. I have a feeling the reaction wants to see temperature gradients. > It wants to see heat flowing through the top mesh, to the next, to the next > and out the stainless steel wall. I don't know why, and I do not have > rigorous proof of that, but that's what the data seems to indicate. > > Mizuno probably has a stronger grasp of this. There are a zillion details > he knows that I do not. He also has quite a lot of conventional material > science theory that explains why low loading probably works better. This > started off as a 23-page paper that would have ended up 50 pages if we had > put in everything interesting. For the last several weeks I have been > ruthlessly cutting out everything that does not directly tell the reader: > "How To Do This, Hands-on." Focus, focus, focus. > > We can always write another paper. > > > >> Such an arrangement would not only allow for accurate measurement, it >> would also >> constitute a prototype power reactor. >> > > I don't think we will have any trouble making this into a power reactor! > It gets hot in a hurry. We have estimates of the amount of Ni that was > activated, and projections of how high the power will go when more of it is > activated. We are far below the limit. I am sure of that. The question is: > can it be controlled at high heat, with a high output to input ratio? I > sure hope so. But I sure hope Mizuno does not try to test that himself in > the lab. Because the place is a dump, and a fire trap, and severely damaged > by the earthquake. His SEM and other instruments were never fixed. The > GoFundMe kept him in business, but just barely. I hate to think of him by > himself doing high temperature experiments in such dangerous conditions. I > am hoping that other people replicate and then run with this. Frankly, I am > hoping thousands of people replicate. > > I hope many people try to replicate, because based on my experience, most > who try to replicate will screw up. Typically, you find out years later > they did their own version which was nothing like the original. I am just > making up a pretend example here . . . but the paper says keep the pressure > between 100 and 300 Pa. Some know-it-all guy will say: "This is gas > loading, so we need high pressure. Make it 30 atm!" Which is 3 million Pa. > It won't work. He'll tell the world, "This is a fraud! It doesn't work" but > he won't reveal any details of his experiment, so we will never find out he > got a critical parameter wrong by a factor of 10,000. > > I can *feel* that happening! Right now! Some nitwit out there is getting > ready to do this wrong, despite weeks and weeks of our efforts to provide > clear instructions. So I hope enough people do it according to the > instructions that some of them will succeed. But you never know. > > One person did it already, and it seems to work. > > - Jed > >
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
… that’s good, Robin. Even better would be na organic Rankine cycle (ORC) to convert the modest temperature gain in the warm fluid into electrical power. Forget calorimetry when you have enough COP for self-power which is the present claim. Nothing proves “net gain” like “self-powering” … In fact small ORC systems are commercially available… Hmmm… From: mix...@bigpond.com A molten salt coolant in a flow calorimeter with an inlet temperature of e.g. 300 C and an outlet temperature of 300+ C, would allow both accurate measurement and high power operation concurrently. The whole should be well insulated to ensure low losses. Outlet temperature would be determined by controlling the flow rate. Such an arrangement would not only allow for accurate measurement, it would also constitute a prototype power reactor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
wrote: > A molten salt coolant in a flow calorimeter with an inlet temperature of > e.g. > 300 C and an outlet temperature of 300+ C, would allow both accurate > measurement > and high power operation concurrently. The whole should be well insulated > to > ensure low losses. > That would hold the entire cell at a high temperature, both inside and outside. I have a feeling the reaction wants to see temperature gradients. It wants to see heat flowing through the top mesh, to the next, to the next and out the stainless steel wall. I don't know why, and I do not have rigorous proof of that, but that's what the data seems to indicate. Mizuno probably has a stronger grasp of this. There are a zillion details he knows that I do not. He also has quite a lot of conventional material science theory that explains why low loading probably works better. This started off as a 23-page paper that would have ended up 50 pages if we had put in everything interesting. For the last several weeks I have been ruthlessly cutting out everything that does not directly tell the reader: "How To Do This, Hands-on." Focus, focus, focus. We can always write another paper. > Such an arrangement would not only allow for accurate measurement, it > would also > constitute a prototype power reactor. > I don't think we will have any trouble making this into a power reactor! It gets hot in a hurry. We have estimates of the amount of Ni that was activated, and projections of how high the power will go when more of it is activated. We are far below the limit. I am sure of that. The question is: can it be controlled at high heat, with a high output to input ratio? I sure hope so. But I sure hope Mizuno does not try to test that himself in the lab. Because the place is a dump, and a fire trap, and severely damaged by the earthquake. His SEM and other instruments were never fixed. The GoFundMe kept him in business, but just barely. I hate to think of him by himself doing high temperature experiments in such dangerous conditions. I am hoping that other people replicate and then run with this. Frankly, I am hoping thousands of people replicate. I hope many people try to replicate, because based on my experience, most who try to replicate will screw up. Typically, you find out years later they did their own version which was nothing like the original. I am just making up a pretend example here . . . but the paper says keep the pressure between 100 and 300 Pa. Some know-it-all guy will say: "This is gas loading, so we need high pressure. Make it 30 atm!" Which is 3 million Pa. It won't work. He'll tell the world, "This is a fraud! It doesn't work" but he won't reveal any details of his experiment, so we will never find out he got a critical parameter wrong by a factor of 10,000. I can *feel* that happening! Right now! Some nitwit out there is getting ready to do this wrong, despite weeks and weeks of our efforts to provide clear instructions. So I hope enough people do it according to the instructions that some of them will succeed. But you never know. One person did it already, and it seems to work. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:13:26 -0400: Hi, [snip] >We recommend air-flow calorimetry for this experiment. The reactor walls >must be hot for this reaction to occur. In previous experiments we used >water-flow calorimeters with cooling coils up against the reactor walls, or >cooling coils with insulation between the coil and the wall. Both types >removed heat too quickly, reducing or eliminating the reaction. The >calorimeter is an integral part of the experiment. It can interfere with >the results, or enhance them. [snip] A molten salt coolant in a flow calorimeter with an inlet temperature of e.g. 300 C and an outlet temperature of 300+ C, would allow both accurate measurement and high power operation concurrently. The whole should be well insulated to ensure low losses. Outlet temperature would be determined by controlling the flow rate. Such an arrangement would not only allow for accurate measurement, it would also constitute a prototype power reactor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Of course the major assumption will be that this is typical “cold fusion” – should it be duplicated. But is there more to it than the normal P effect? Definitely there could be more since this is neither electrolysis nor glow discharge. It is worth noting that in some ways the mechanism of low pressure, rapid diffusion resembles the Holmlid effect of deuterium densification. And moreover there is a hybrid of the two processes which is already described In the literature. It is almost directly on point. The researchers are top notch, as well. Hora and Miley et al published a paper entitled “Surface Effect for Gas Loading Micrograin Palladium for LENR” which could be the closest explanation available to Mizuno’s new breakthrough, and it mentions the ultradense state as necessarily preceding fusion. It is available from ResearchGate, but you have to join to get it there. Hora and Miley call this refinement to the old version of cold fusion “Two-picometer Deuterium Reactions by Coulomb Screening”. If this is correct then copious neutrons are expected at the kilowatt level of output… “million times” more! In fact, there could be health risks at the high heat level, especially heating one’s home with the reactor as Mizuno has done. I hope that Mizuno has taken the necessary precautions. Jones From: Jed Rothwell Anyway, if you want to replicate this experiment, you should have a calorimeter that puts the cell in something similar to room temperature air. Don't wrap tubes of flowing water around it. That's what Mizuno did for a few years. It didn't work. Or it barely worked.
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Jed Rothwell wrote: > I think it is important that the calorimeter not cool the outside wall of > the reactor much more than this air-flow calorimeter does. I think that > would interfere with the reaction, or prevent it. That was a problem with > Mizuno's earlier calorimeter, as we described in some of the papers. It was > also the problem with McKubre's calorimeter, according to Fleischmann. > Fleischmann and McKubre strongly disagreed about this. > That's unfair to Mike. Martin strongly disagreed. In later years, I recall Mike tacitly agree that Martin was right about this. Anyway, if you want to replicate this experiment, you should have a calorimeter that puts the cell in something similar to room temperature air. Don't wrap tubes of flowing water around it. That's what Mizuno did for a few years. It didn't work. Or it barely worked. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
JonesBeene wrote: > Why not put the reactor in a water bath and confirm the excess heat that > way? … or water flow. > I think a water bath would kill the heat. As we wrote in the paper: We recommend air-flow calorimetry for this experiment. The reactor walls must be hot for this reaction to occur. In previous experiments we used water-flow calorimeters with cooling coils up against the reactor walls, or cooling coils with insulation between the coil and the wall. Both types removed heat too quickly, reducing or eliminating the reaction. The calorimeter is an integral part of the experiment. It can interfere with the results, or enhance them. A Seebeck calorimeter might work. The internal conditions resemble those of an air-flow calorimeter. I think it is important that the calorimeter not cool the outside wall of the reactor much more than this air-flow calorimeter does. I think that would interfere with the reaction, or prevent it. That was a problem with Mizuno's earlier calorimeter, as we described in some of the papers. It was also the problem with McKubre's calorimeter, according to Fleischmann. Fleischmann and McKubre strongly disagreed about this. Fleischmann emphasized that the calorimeter is an integral part of the experiment. It can interfere with the experiment. This must be prevented. To replicate an experiment, you have to think carefully about how the calorimeter in the original experiment works, in terms of heat removal, operating temperatures and so on. > > Few observers are going to be satisfied with air flow alone. > Good. That's a litmus test to filter out pathological skeptics. Seriously, after looking at the ICCF21 paper and and Figs. 2 through 7 of this paper, I do not think anyone can come up with a plausible reason why a 10 deg C temperature difference might be an artifact. (In Fig. 5.) Anyone who thinks it might be an artifact should ignore this experiment. The ICCF21 calorimetry was close enough to the margin that I myself had some doubts about it, as I described here: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTexcessheat.pdf *This* is a different story. > Does high heat transfer quench the effect? > Yup. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
Jed, Quick question. Why not put the reactor in a water bath and confirm the excess heat that way? … or water flow. Few observers are going to be satisfied with air flow alone. Does high heat transfer quench the effect? Jones From: Jed Rothwell …Tadahiko Mizuno will report increased excess heat with nickel mesh coated with palladium. The results are dramatic, so we decided to upload a preprint of his paper. Wow ! This could be huge if it can be replicated – finally an experiment with high COP at the kilowatt output level.
RE: [Vo]:Mizuno reports increased excess heat
From: Jed Rothwell …Tadahiko Mizuno will report increased excess heat with nickel mesh coated with palladium. The results are dramatic, so we decided to upload a preprint of his paper. Wow ! This could be huge if it can be replicated – finally an experiment with high COP at the kilowatt output level.
