[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-06-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Andyrom75 andyro...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 Resolution|FIXED   |---

--- Comment #36 from Andyrom75 andyro...@hotmail.com ---
I've reopened because the problem still persist. The most evident proof is the
comparison of the links in the firt post. But I've noticed this morning also in
https://it.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Speciale:UltimeModifiche and I notice it each
time a new user register on the site.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-06-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Florian florian.schmidt.wel...@t-online.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||florian.schmidt.welzow@t-on
   ||line.de

--- Comment #37 from Florian florian.schmidt.wel...@t-online.de ---
 the problem still persist
Yeah, because the main function to remove redlinks from mobile sites still
exists :) Maybe we can rethink this?

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-06-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #38 from Andyrom75 andyro...@hotmail.com ---
I hope that it would be rethink. In my opinion all the red links should be
shown by default. In case, through a specific gadget, who doesn't won't to deal
with red link would be able to transform them into plain text. That's how it
should work in my opinion.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-06-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #39 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
I'm going to close this, since the conversation is a bit hard to follow and the
original problem raised by Liagent is fixed and I can't find a tracking bug (so
what I said in #c35 is not true)

See bug 66534 which hopefully tells a clearer story.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-06-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Maryana Pinchuk mpinc...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|ASSIGNED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-06-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #35 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
The original issue with sup elements is fixed. The conversation and title are a
little confusing, hence why this was closed.

Tracking bug would be more useful (I think one already exists but I can't find
it)

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-04-18 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED

--- Comment #34 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
The bug originally reported should actually be fixed.
Enabling red links is on the current timeline so marking as assigned (to mobile
team)

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #31 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org ---
I don't understand why this bug includes a huge discussion on whether or not we
should turn on red links in stable. We have an established workflow for
experimental features on mobile:
1. Design the experiment, hopefully including criteria for success/failure.
2. Implement the experiment on alpha and see if it has any significant
technical problems.
3. If there are no technical issues, promote the feature to beta and let it run
for long enough to get some useful data.
3. Evaluate the results and decide whether the experiment was successful or
not.
4. If the experiment was successful, turn it on in stable.

Where are we at right now? Do we have any useful results yet?

Please do not use Bugzilla as a debate forum. That's what we have wikis for.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #32 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
Redirect to: https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_Web/New_page_creation

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #33 from Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #31)
 Where are we at right now?

I have my mobile browser in Experimental mode, and this morning I saw a red
link for the first time ever. I clicked, and the mobile editor opened with a
blank page.

So at least we are there.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #26 from Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org ---
This is another report where a MediaWiki functionality (in this case
MobileFrontend functionality) is conditioned by a Wikimedia-specific situation.
Quick reverts for page creation and the Drafts namespace are factors that most
MobileFrontend users don't need to consider.

Is it worth detaching both use cases (Wikimedia, rest of MediaWiki)? If a
configuration would exist in MobileFrontend allowing sysadmins to
enable/disable red links, then each site would be able to choose their
preferred setup at any point. Wikis welcoming any input (the big majority)
would be happy with this, while sites with special needs like en.wiki could
still work on additional steps if needed.

Such configuration is probably a good idea anyway, since it might be that
mobile page creation doesn't make much sense for some sites. It might be also
useful to deploy this feature with a quick way to step back if some kind of
problem arises.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #27 from Bawolff (Brian Wolff) bawolff...@gmail.com ---
I think you mean [en] wikipedia. Most of wikimedia does not use drafts.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #28 from Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #27)
 I think you mean [en] wikipedia. Most of wikimedia does not use drafts.

I know, but more Wikimedia wikis share the circumstance of high rates of new
pages being deleted, causing frustration among newcomers. This is the main
argument for being careful when enabling red links, but this is not a concern
in most non-Wikimedia MediaWikis (and probably not even in many Wikimedia
sites).

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #29 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
A patch that adds a global to enable red links and defaults it to true would be
much appreciated for the 3rd party use case. Wikimedia wiki's can override this
to false while we explore this more at Steven suggests.

To give background they were originally disabled because of the fact there was
no editor in mobile so this code has been around since day 1. Although crude
and hacky it has got the job done.

I would personally love to see red links dong get me wrong but I echo the
thoughts of the wise Dr Ian Malcolm
http://sustainableman.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/DrIanMalcom.jpg

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #30 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
FYI once a Wikimedia wiki or any wiki with caching enables such a setting there
is no going back. The red links will stay until the cache clears.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #19 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com ---
(In reply to comment #17)
 We being the Wikipedia editors? Are they aware about this possibility? I
 think it would be good to contact the big communities (tech-ambassadors?) and
 get them involved just in case. For reference, the Commons community wasn't
 happy at all about mobile uploads being simply enabled, and image uploading
 on desktop was a feature existing in desktop just like page creation. 

There's some light discussion of the Commons mobile upload fiasco at
[[mw:Talk:Mobile wikitext editing]]. I don't believe it's an analogous
situation.

 While not extremely complex, all this doesn't sound to me EASY as to
 recommend newcomers to pick this task. I would remove the tag.

I think you're needlessly overcomplicating the matter. The technical changes
required to resolve this bug are trivial, I believe. If this notion is
mistaken, please feel free to remove the easy keyword from this bug report.

 Sounds like a good idea, as long as the wiki has a Drafts namespace or
 equivalent. I guess this means that MobileFrontend should have a parameter to
 define the namespace where new mobile articles are created, defaulting to
 Main.

I'm not sure this is necessary. I think we should match desktop behavior.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #20 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
Is the desktop behaviour correct? I'm not so sure... otherwise why create
drafts?

What's the rush? If someone clicks a red link and then tries to create an
article on mobile and has a bad experience will that user ever try creating one
again?

An experienced user can start their own page on mobile simply by navigating to
the appropriate URL e.g.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_a_brand_new_page_that_doesn%27t_exist

I really would challenge us to think outside the box here. First experiences
are so important yet we seem to forget this in this piece of software.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #21 from Bawolff (Brian Wolff) bawolff...@gmail.com ---

 I really would challenge us to think outside the box here. First experiences
 are so important yet we seem to forget this in this piece of software.

Having text like click here to do X where click here is not a link because it
would be a red link, is a great first impression. (Yes i've actually
encountered things like that when browsering mobile site)

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #22 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
click here to do X is so 1990s web. We should be moving away from that too.
Link labels should be more meaningful dont you think?

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #23 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com ---
(In reply to comment #20)
 What's the rush? If someone clicks a red link and then tries to create an
 article on mobile and has a bad experience will that user ever try creating
 one again?

If there's any rush, it's to restore behavior that's existed since the dawn of
Wikipedia. :-)  Red links are a pretty crucial part of the site interface.

The user experience that you've implemented in MobileFrontend doesn't allow the
user to create a draft article at all. Red links are munged into black text. If
you want to discuss first impressions, let's discuss implementing a mobile site
that pretends as though user registration is a hard requirement and that
creates the illusion that incompleteness (i.e., red links) are a scourge?

 I really would challenge us to think outside the box here. First experiences
 are so important yet we seem to forget this in this piece of software.

This isn't about thinking outside of the box, in my opinion. It's about having
sensible behavior on mobile. I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that the red
link stripping is bad (very crude) and anti-wiki. So... why not kill it?

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #24 from Bawolff (Brian Wolff) bawolff...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #22)
 click here to do X is so 1990s web. We should be moving away from that too.
 Link labels should be more meaningful dont you think?

Oh i certainly dont disagree. However that doesnt change the fact that such
constructions exist, and having text that should be a link not be a link is
very very confusing.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-02-03 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #25 from Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #23)
 If there's any rush, it's to restore behavior that's existed since the dawn
 of
 Wikipedia. :-)  Red links are a pretty crucial part of the site interface.
 
 The user experience that you've implemented in MobileFrontend doesn't allow
 the
 user to create a draft article at all. Red links are munged into black text.
 If
 you want to discuss first impressions, let's discuss implementing a mobile
 site
 that pretends as though user registration is a hard requirement and that
 creates the illusion that incompleteness (i.e., red links) are a scourge?

Lack of anonymous editing and red links is _temporary thing_ not a permanent
design choice. You're right that it sucks that we don't have redlinks, because
it does make an impression on readers that we're not the encyclopedia anyone
can edit. 

We are most definitely going to add anonymous editing and article creation
workflows to mobile. The question is not Should we?, it's When and how? We
don't have a choice, considering how much of our registrations and traffic is
being driven by mobile. It's more and more all the time. 

However, Jon is the voice of reason here when he says that we need to figure
out a good experience for mobile. Just enabling red links and calling it a day
is not good enough. Please trust me when I say that everyone here wants mobile
to have red links as much as you do. Let's help the mobile team figure how to
do it right, not bicker about timelines. 

I say we should move this discussion to mediawiki.org, and start
proposing/discussing specifications to implement. Having design discussions on
Bugzilla about the interface copy and workflows really stinks. Perhaps on a
subpage of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mobile_wikitext_editing ?

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-01-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||q...@wikimedia.org

--- Comment #17 from Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #15)
 Let's simply remove the red link-related code and we'll deal with the fallout
 (e.g., additional anonymous page creations, if any) as necessary and
 appropriate.

We being the Wikipedia editors? Are they aware about this possibility? I
think it would be good to contact the big communities (tech-ambassadors?) and
get them involved just in case. For reference, the Commons community wasn't
happy at all about mobile uploads being simply enabled, and image uploading
on desktop was a feature existing in desktop just like page creation. 

While uploading good pictures from you mobile device is perfectly possible,
creating good articles from scratch from your mobile device is objectively a
complex task. I personally agree that a plan a bit more elaborated needs to be
in place: templates looking good on mobile, new articles assigned to a specific
category automatically? in a specific namespace other than Main?

While not extremely complex, all this doesn't sound to me EASY as to
recommend newcomers to pick this task. I would remove the tag.

(In reply to comment #16)
 I wonder if
 redirecting new page edits to drafts or making it easy to turn them into
 drafts
 might be a clever idea... writing on a mobile phone is a pain (I'm doing so
 now
 so can testify that) and may be better suited for draft creation e.g. jotting
 down shorthand notes

Sounds like a good idea, as long as the wiki has a Drafts namespace or
equivalent. I guess this means that MobileFrontend should have a parameter to
define the namespace where new mobile articles are created, defaulting to Main.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-01-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #18 from Bawolff (Brian Wolff) bawolff...@gmail.com ---
 We being the Wikipedia editors? Are they aware about this possibility? I
 think it would be good to contact the big communities (tech-ambassadors?) and
 get them involved just in case. For reference, the Commons community wasn't
 happy at all about mobile uploads being simply enabled, and image uploading
 on desktop was a feature existing in desktop just like page creation. 
 

I respectfully suggest that the backlash to mobile upload was due to poor
design decisions (ie encouraging new users to go against community norms)
rather than a desktop feature suddenly being enabled on mobile. I dont think
redlinks suffers from this, so i dont think this will suffer the same fate.
That said more communication is always better.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-01-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Kunal Mehta (Legoktm) legoktm.wikipe...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Enable red links on stable  |Enable red links on stable
   |version of MobileFrontEnd   |version of MobileFrontend

--- Comment #13 from Kunal Mehta (Legoktm) legoktm.wikipe...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #12)
 (In reply to comment #11)
  I've updated the bug summary to hopefully be more accurate.
 
 I've updated the bug summary to remove your crude and intentional use of
 unnecessary adjectives. 

I guess you didn't like the word crude, except Jon was the one who first used
that in comment 4...

 
 The solution we want is to enable red links in MobileFrontEnd. Making that
 the
 bug summary makes sense.

No, that's not what this bug is about. Did you view the test cases in comment
0? This bug is about sub and child nodes being stripped.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-01-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #14 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
I dont really care what the bug name is to be honest. To fix all the issues
related to this whether it be for recent changes or sup links the real way to
fix it is to enable red links and stop the hacky formatter stuff that has been
there since before editing. Whether you want to create a new bug or not I dont
really care but what there should only be one bug for this and arguing about it
to be honest is counterproductive for all involved. What would be really useful
is if someone would help write a plan for enabling them in such a way that we
dont end up with new pages that instantly get deleted and gives users bad first
experiences and that doesnt generate spam. Any help with that is much
appreciated.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-01-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||easy

--- Comment #15 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com ---
(In reply to comment #5)
 (To elaborate - I think we shouldn't waste time on trying to fix a hacky
 piece of code and instead remove the need for it all together)

Yes, I agree.

Reading through the comments on this bug report, I believe there's general
consensus to kill this red link-related code.

Let's simply remove the red link-related code and we'll deal with the fallout
(e.g., additional anonymous page creations, if any) as necessary and
appropriate. We have lots and lots of options for dealing with any harmful
effects of there being red links in MobileFrontend, in my opinion. We've
survived much longer with red links in the desktop (non-MobileFrontend) user
interface.

I'm marking this bug with the easy keyword accordingly. This usually gets
attention to the bug much faster, which is what I think everyone is looking for
here.

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontend

2014-01-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #16 from Jon jrob...@wikimedia.org ---
Since new page creation is enabled in (just no red links) it would be a good
idea to check if any pages have been created via mobile so far and if so run
some checks to see if they were any good / did they get reverted. We have data
so it would be good to get a feel for what will happen when we make this more
widely available. Also currently new page creation templates are nasty on
mobile... someone will have to perfect this before enabling red links - this
task is not simply a case of flicking a switch.

There is also an opportunity here to build for the future... I wonder if
redirecting new page edits to drafts or making it easy to turn them into drafts
might be a clever idea... writing on a mobile phone is a pain (I'm doing so now
so can testify that) and may be better suited for draft creation e.g. jotting
down shorthand notes

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontEnd

2014-01-25 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|MobileFrontend  |Enable red links on stable
   |intentionally and crudely   |version of MobileFrontEnd
   |disables red links  |

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[Bug 55500] Enable red links on stable version of MobileFrontEnd

2014-01-25 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55500

--- Comment #12 from Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #11)
 I've updated the bug summary to hopefully be more accurate.

I've updated the bug summary to remove your crude and intentional use of
unnecessary adjectives. 

The solution we want is to enable red links in MobileFrontEnd. Making that the
bug summary makes sense.

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