[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Randy, great idea! Thanks! D On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Randy Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, As you prepare your requests for partnerships, it would be great if you could put together some kind of a visual matrix of needs / requirements, so that folks visiting your site, could fairly immediately ascertain how they could be of help. It will also help us spread the word within the WikiEducator community, so that we can facilitate linkages which our mutually beneficial. Congrats! Randy On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do I smell an articulation agreement? =) D On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inspiring Dave and the gang. I'm once again motivated and directed by your work, and will now begin attempting to position Otago Polytechnic as a 100% OER Education and Training Org following your secondary school as an example. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:33 AM, Wayne Mackintosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David WOW! I'd like to join Peter in echoing our congratulations. This is a landmark milestone for the free knowledge community. The WE community will help in every way we can in collaborating on the development of free content for this initiative. Well done Dave --- still leading the pack hey! Cheers Wayne On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 10:42 -0600, David Wiley wrote: Our application to create a new public, online high school based on OERs has been approved! http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/499 Now the real work begins... D On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:01 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Leigh, Sorry this has taken so long. A lot going on at present. Re the blog. What would I want want with a blog when people like you say everything so much better than me? You know i inhabit lots of forums like this one - some inside institutions, some (like this) on the border, some which represent the new (global) institutions like sitepoint. The nearest thing to a blog = http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj It's not much but you know it's constructed by education.au, and they're starting to see that me.edu.au could also be an Aussie's lifelong learning account = an OpenID to other .edu and .gov.au domains. Like most institutions, the edna guys have a problem separating eteaching from elearning. http://www.groups.edna.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=25285#78420 But there getting there. Conflation is such a wonderful description isn't it? You might want to keep tabs on Moodle's Social lounge. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6801 And compare it to what Wayne''s doing and the (unreported) Tectonic Shift between wiki stuff. We seem to be at the stage now where there's starting to be some focus on the Real Time Communications stuff. The 'web 2.0' focus is tiring now = so many domains producing so many me too courses/information. But the driving factor is that the National telcos have squeezed the lemon dry (with VoIP, etc) and Skype has attuned global communities to just how much they are ripped off. So all those skills you've picked up by working with it should prove to be useful as its Open versions grow legs. I can't push this (my lady is sooo ill, so i can't get out) but i do have a patent which should be useful as the geeks start focusing on this little challenge. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1172 In the meantime, thanks for all your stuff and others around this space (Wayne). It keep sane to see so much creativity and common sense in the one place. Here's one other. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66 regards, http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj On Apr 26, 7:15 am, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Simon. Do you keep a blog I'm not aware of? I'd like to be following this type of advice and insight. Regarding very slight change all too slowly... The thing I am seeing more and more of in the institutions and the people like me that have been in them for far too long, is the adoption of the rhetoric but not the action. I am seeing many projects get funded based on their 'participatory' models, their openness, their 'action' research. But in reality they don't have anything near participation or openness, and as a result very little action to then research. Simple things like, a fella in charge of a project organising a public seminar to launch the project, in which 3 other fellas position themselves centre stage and proceed to TELL everyone what they have planned. Typically, they have not organised any back channel, their feedback loop (if
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Hi David, As you prepare your requests for partnerships, it would be great if you could put together some kind of a visual matrix of needs / requirements, so that folks visiting your site, could fairly immediately ascertain how they could be of help. It will also help us spread the word within the WikiEducator community, so that we can facilitate linkages which our mutually beneficial. Congrats! Randy On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do I smell an articulation agreement? =) D On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inspiring Dave and the gang. I'm once again motivated and directed by your work, and will now begin attempting to position Otago Polytechnic as a 100% OER Education and Training Org following your secondary school as an example. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:33 AM, Wayne Mackintosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David WOW! I'd like to join Peter in echoing our congratulations. This is a landmark milestone for the free knowledge community. The WE community will help in every way we can in collaborating on the development of free content for this initiative. Well done Dave --- still leading the pack hey! Cheers Wayne On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 10:42 -0600, David Wiley wrote: Our application to create a new public, online high school based on OERs has been approved! http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/499 Now the real work begins... D On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:01 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Leigh, Sorry this has taken so long. A lot going on at present. Re the blog. What would I want want with a blog when people like you say everything so much better than me? You know i inhabit lots of forums like this one - some inside institutions, some (like this) on the border, some which represent the new (global) institutions like sitepoint. The nearest thing to a blog = http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj It's not much but you know it's constructed by education.au, and they're starting to see that me.edu.au could also be an Aussie's lifelong learning account = an OpenID to other .edu and .gov.au domains. Like most institutions, the edna guys have a problem separating eteaching from elearning. http://www.groups.edna.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=25285#78420 But there getting there. Conflation is such a wonderful description isn't it? You might want to keep tabs on Moodle's Social lounge. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6801 And compare it to what Wayne''s doing and the (unreported) Tectonic Shift between wiki stuff. We seem to be at the stage now where there's starting to be some focus on the Real Time Communications stuff. The 'web 2.0' focus is tiring now = so many domains producing so many me too courses/information. But the driving factor is that the National telcos have squeezed the lemon dry (with VoIP, etc) and Skype has attuned global communities to just how much they are ripped off. So all those skills you've picked up by working with it should prove to be useful as its Open versions grow legs. I can't push this (my lady is sooo ill, so i can't get out) but i do have a patent which should be useful as the geeks start focusing on this little challenge. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1172 In the meantime, thanks for all your stuff and others around this space (Wayne). It keep sane to see so much creativity and common sense in the one place. Here's one other. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66 regards, http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj On Apr 26, 7:15 am, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Simon. Do you keep a blog I'm not aware of? I'd like to be following this type of advice and insight. Regarding very slight change all too slowly... The thing I am seeing more and more of in the institutions and the people like me that have been in them for far too long, is the adoption of the rhetoric but not the action. I am seeing many projects get funded based on their 'participatory' models, their openness, their 'action' research. But in reality they don't have anything near participation or openness, and as a result very little action to then research. Simple things like, a fella in charge of a project organising a public seminar to launch the project, in which 3 other fellas position themselves centre stage and proceed to TELL everyone what they have planned. Typically, they have not organised any back channel, their feedback loop (if they have one) involves sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that gets no reply. And at the end of the seminar people walk out feeling ripped
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Our application to create a new public, online high school based on OERs has been approved! http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/499 Now the real work begins... D On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:01 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Leigh, Sorry this has taken so long. A lot going on at present. Re the blog. What would I want want with a blog when people like you say everything so much better than me? You know i inhabit lots of forums like this one - some inside institutions, some (like this) on the border, some which represent the new (global) institutions like sitepoint. The nearest thing to a blog = http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj It's not much but you know it's constructed by education.au, and they're starting to see that me.edu.au could also be an Aussie's lifelong learning account = an OpenID to other .edu and .gov.au domains. Like most institutions, the edna guys have a problem separating eteaching from elearning. http://www.groups.edna.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=25285#78420 But there getting there. Conflation is such a wonderful description isn't it? You might want to keep tabs on Moodle's Social lounge. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6801 And compare it to what Wayne''s doing and the (unreported) Tectonic Shift between wiki stuff. We seem to be at the stage now where there's starting to be some focus on the Real Time Communications stuff. The 'web 2.0' focus is tiring now = so many domains producing so many me too courses/information. But the driving factor is that the National telcos have squeezed the lemon dry (with VoIP, etc) and Skype has attuned global communities to just how much they are ripped off. So all those skills you've picked up by working with it should prove to be useful as its Open versions grow legs. I can't push this (my lady is sooo ill, so i can't get out) but i do have a patent which should be useful as the geeks start focusing on this little challenge. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1172 In the meantime, thanks for all your stuff and others around this space (Wayne). It keep sane to see so much creativity and common sense in the one place. Here's one other. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66 regards, http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj On Apr 26, 7:15 am, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Simon. Do you keep a blog I'm not aware of? I'd like to be following this type of advice and insight. Regarding very slight change all too slowly... The thing I am seeing more and more of in the institutions and the people like me that have been in them for far too long, is the adoption of the rhetoric but not the action. I am seeing many projects get funded based on their 'participatory' models, their openness, their 'action' research. But in reality they don't have anything near participation or openness, and as a result very little action to then research. Simple things like, a fella in charge of a project organising a public seminar to launch the project, in which 3 other fellas position themselves centre stage and proceed to TELL everyone what they have planned. Typically, they have not organised any back channel, their feedback loop (if they have one) involves sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that gets no reply. And at the end of the seminar people walk out feeling ripped off that they missed their fav TV show to attend it and NOT participate. I'm sure this is the way it has always been, but today it is even worse because we have all the lobby and research that says participation and oppenness is the way, and the government and funding bodies are positioning their criteria for this, but the measures and accountability for participation and oppeness are not in place. As a result, millions of $ are being awarded to some projects for people who are simply good at wearing rhetoric without really changing their action. Their reports end up the same camelion output. I hope all this ranting is trikiing a chord your end, because I am seeing it more and more, and it is concerning me a great deal. So, your suggestion to get the grant and do it 'ourselves'. Would we do it any better? Given that to get the grant we have to adopt both theirs and our rhetoric AND be accountable to that? The projects I am a part of that have that accountability involve so many compromises that its easy to lose sight of what you were trying to do in the first place. How can we obtain resources and retain the freedom to act and react quickly and spontaneously like we have done so all along? Is this what the US ideology of free markets and corporatism is trying to tell us? This self organising principle based on a very simple funding arrangement of user pays and demand... I'm starting to wonder off and become incoherent (if I'm not totally that way already). In short, it seems that we ARE doing it already, and each of us individually dragging our
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Inspiring Dave and the gang. I'm once again motivated and directed by your work, and will now begin attempting to position Otago Polytechnic as a 100% OER Education and Training Org following your secondary school as an example. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:33 AM, Wayne Mackintosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David WOW! I'd like to join Peter in echoing our congratulations. This is a landmark milestone for the free knowledge community. The WE community will help in every way we can in collaborating on the development of free content for this initiative. Well done Dave --- still leading the pack hey! Cheers Wayne On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 10:42 -0600, David Wiley wrote: Our application to create a new public, online high school based on OERs has been approved! http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/499 Now the real work begins... D On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:01 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Leigh, Sorry this has taken so long. A lot going on at present. Re the blog. What would I want want with a blog when people like you say everything so much better than me? You know i inhabit lots of forums like this one - some inside institutions, some (like this) on the border, some which represent the new (global) institutions like sitepoint. The nearest thing to a blog = http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj It's not much but you know it's constructed by education.au, and they're starting to see that me.edu.au could also be an Aussie's lifelong learning account = an OpenID to other .edu and .gov.au domains. Like most institutions, the edna guys have a problem separating eteaching from elearning. http://www.groups.edna.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=25285#78420 But there getting there. Conflation is such a wonderful description isn't it? You might want to keep tabs on Moodle's Social lounge. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6801 And compare it to what Wayne''s doing and the (unreported) Tectonic Shift between wiki stuff. We seem to be at the stage now where there's starting to be some focus on the Real Time Communications stuff. The 'web 2.0' focus is tiring now = so many domains producing so many me too courses/information. But the driving factor is that the National telcos have squeezed the lemon dry (with VoIP, etc) and Skype has attuned global communities to just how much they are ripped off. So all those skills you've picked up by working with it should prove to be useful as its Open versions grow legs. I can't push this (my lady is sooo ill, so i can't get out) but i do have a patent which should be useful as the geeks start focusing on this little challenge. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1172 In the meantime, thanks for all your stuff and others around this space (Wayne). It keep sane to see so much creativity and common sense in the one place. Here's one other. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66 regards, http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj On Apr 26, 7:15 am, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Simon. Do you keep a blog I'm not aware of? I'd like to be following this type of advice and insight. Regarding very slight change all too slowly... The thing I am seeing more and more of in the institutions and the people like me that have been in them for far too long, is the adoption of the rhetoric but not the action. I am seeing many projects get funded based on their 'participatory' models, their openness, their 'action' research. But in reality they don't have anything near participation or openness, and as a result very little action to then research. Simple things like, a fella in charge of a project organising a public seminar to launch the project, in which 3 other fellas position themselves centre stage and proceed to TELL everyone what they have planned. Typically, they have not organised any back channel, their feedback loop (if they have one) involves sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that gets no reply. And at the end of the seminar people walk out feeling ripped off that they missed their fav TV show to attend it and NOT participate. I'm sure this is the way it has always been, but today it is even worse because we have all the lobby and research that says participation and oppenness is the way, and the government and funding bodies are positioning their criteria for this, but the measures and accountability for participation and oppeness are not in place. As a result, millions of $ are being awarded to some projects for people who are simply good at wearing rhetoric without really changing their action. Their reports end up the same camelion output. I hope all this ranting is trikiing a chord your end, because I am seeing it more and more, and it is concerning me a great deal. So, your suggestion to get the grant and do it 'ourselves'. Would we do it
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Do I smell an articulation agreement? =) D On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inspiring Dave and the gang. I'm once again motivated and directed by your work, and will now begin attempting to position Otago Polytechnic as a 100% OER Education and Training Org following your secondary school as an example. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:33 AM, Wayne Mackintosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David WOW! I'd like to join Peter in echoing our congratulations. This is a landmark milestone for the free knowledge community. The WE community will help in every way we can in collaborating on the development of free content for this initiative. Well done Dave --- still leading the pack hey! Cheers Wayne On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 10:42 -0600, David Wiley wrote: Our application to create a new public, online high school based on OERs has been approved! http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/499 Now the real work begins... D On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:01 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Leigh, Sorry this has taken so long. A lot going on at present. Re the blog. What would I want want with a blog when people like you say everything so much better than me? You know i inhabit lots of forums like this one - some inside institutions, some (like this) on the border, some which represent the new (global) institutions like sitepoint. The nearest thing to a blog = http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj It's not much but you know it's constructed by education.au, and they're starting to see that me.edu.au could also be an Aussie's lifelong learning account = an OpenID to other .edu and .gov.au domains. Like most institutions, the edna guys have a problem separating eteaching from elearning. http://www.groups.edna.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=25285#78420 But there getting there. Conflation is such a wonderful description isn't it? You might want to keep tabs on Moodle's Social lounge. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6801 And compare it to what Wayne''s doing and the (unreported) Tectonic Shift between wiki stuff. We seem to be at the stage now where there's starting to be some focus on the Real Time Communications stuff. The 'web 2.0' focus is tiring now = so many domains producing so many me too courses/information. But the driving factor is that the National telcos have squeezed the lemon dry (with VoIP, etc) and Skype has attuned global communities to just how much they are ripped off. So all those skills you've picked up by working with it should prove to be useful as its Open versions grow legs. I can't push this (my lady is sooo ill, so i can't get out) but i do have a patent which should be useful as the geeks start focusing on this little challenge. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1172 In the meantime, thanks for all your stuff and others around this space (Wayne). It keep sane to see so much creativity and common sense in the one place. Here's one other. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66 regards, http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj On Apr 26, 7:15 am, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Simon. Do you keep a blog I'm not aware of? I'd like to be following this type of advice and insight. Regarding very slight change all too slowly... The thing I am seeing more and more of in the institutions and the people like me that have been in them for far too long, is the adoption of the rhetoric but not the action. I am seeing many projects get funded based on their 'participatory' models, their openness, their 'action' research. But in reality they don't have anything near participation or openness, and as a result very little action to then research. Simple things like, a fella in charge of a project organising a public seminar to launch the project, in which 3 other fellas position themselves centre stage and proceed to TELL everyone what they have planned. Typically, they have not organised any back channel, their feedback loop (if they have one) involves sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that gets no reply. And at the end of the seminar people walk out feeling ripped off that they missed their fav TV show to attend it and NOT participate. I'm sure this is the way it has always been, but today it is even worse because we have all the lobby and research that says participation and oppenness is the way, and the government and funding bodies are positioning their criteria for this, but the measures and accountability for participation and oppeness are not in place. As a result, millions of $ are being awarded to some projects for people who are simply good at wearing rhetoric without really changing their action. Their reports end up the same
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Hi Leigh, Sorry this has taken so long. A lot going on at present. Re the blog. What would I want want with a blog when people like you say everything so much better than me? You know i inhabit lots of forums like this one - some inside institutions, some (like this) on the border, some which represent the new (global) institutions like sitepoint. The nearest thing to a blog = http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj It's not much but you know it's constructed by education.au, and they're starting to see that me.edu.au could also be an Aussie's lifelong learning account = an OpenID to other .edu and .gov.au domains. Like most institutions, the edna guys have a problem separating eteaching from elearning. http://www.groups.edna.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=25285#78420 But there getting there. Conflation is such a wonderful description isn't it? You might want to keep tabs on Moodle's Social lounge. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6801 And compare it to what Wayne''s doing and the (unreported) Tectonic Shift between wiki stuff. We seem to be at the stage now where there's starting to be some focus on the Real Time Communications stuff. The 'web 2.0' focus is tiring now = so many domains producing so many me too courses/information. But the driving factor is that the National telcos have squeezed the lemon dry (with VoIP, etc) and Skype has attuned global communities to just how much they are ripped off. So all those skills you've picked up by working with it should prove to be useful as its Open versions grow legs. I can't push this (my lady is sooo ill, so i can't get out) but i do have a patent which should be useful as the geeks start focusing on this little challenge. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1172 In the meantime, thanks for all your stuff and others around this space (Wayne). It keep sane to see so much creativity and common sense in the one place. Here's one other. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66 regards, http://me.edu.au/p/Simonfj On Apr 26, 7:15 am, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Simon. Do you keep a blog I'm not aware of? I'd like to be following this type of advice and insight. Regarding very slight change all too slowly... The thing I am seeing more and more of in the institutions and the people like me that have been in them for far too long, is the adoption of the rhetoric but not the action. I am seeing many projects get funded based on their 'participatory' models, their openness, their 'action' research. But in reality they don't have anything near participation or openness, and as a result very little action to then research. Simple things like, a fella in charge of a project organising a public seminar to launch the project, in which 3 other fellas position themselves centre stage and proceed to TELL everyone what they have planned. Typically, they have not organised any back channel, their feedback loop (if they have one) involves sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] that gets no reply. And at the end of the seminar people walk out feeling ripped off that they missed their fav TV show to attend it and NOT participate. I'm sure this is the way it has always been, but today it is even worse because we have all the lobby and research that says participation and oppenness is the way, and the government and funding bodies are positioning their criteria for this, but the measures and accountability for participation and oppeness are not in place. As a result, millions of $ are being awarded to some projects for people who are simply good at wearing rhetoric without really changing their action. Their reports end up the same camelion output. I hope all this ranting is trikiing a chord your end, because I am seeing it more and more, and it is concerning me a great deal. So, your suggestion to get the grant and do it 'ourselves'. Would we do it any better? Given that to get the grant we have to adopt both theirs and our rhetoric AND be accountable to that? The projects I am a part of that have that accountability involve so many compromises that its easy to lose sight of what you were trying to do in the first place. How can we obtain resources and retain the freedom to act and react quickly and spontaneously like we have done so all along? Is this what the US ideology of free markets and corporatism is trying to tell us? This self organising principle based on a very simple funding arrangement of user pays and demand... I'm starting to wonder off and become incoherent (if I'm not totally that way already). In short, it seems that we ARE doing it already, and each of us individually dragging our institutional blobs and resources along with us. I have managed to position my job and its performance indicators so that my work with Wikieducator can be sustained. So in that way, the institution I am working in is changing, and I have the freedom to act and react in that new
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
so it will not be called free in terms of cost, but free in terms of access to materials. On Mar 26, 10:47 pm, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo... Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.s... Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Free as in cost is something I'm interested in. Indulge me on the following: Music will survive long after its institutions die Journalism will survive long after its institutions die Education will survive long after its institutions die (Inspired by a recent post by George Siemens) Granted, there will be a lot of loses, but with that impending doom as a possible future for educational institutions, it is interesting to imagine how education might be post apocalypse? Recently, I have been looking at student debt in New Zealand, their costs of living, the sacrifices they have to make to get an education.. and then the cost to institutions for offering the education services. I'm convinced that we could get the cost way way down, to a point where it could be conceivably free - so long as there is about 60% public funding behind current education services, as it seems there is in NZ. And that's without changing much in the way of education practice - most of it comes from rethinking ICT budgets.. we in this thread are only skimming the surface of what the future may look like... On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:31 PM, vmensah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so it will not be called free in terms of cost, but free in terms of access to materials. On Mar 26, 10:47 pm, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo... Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
This is a very good news, The BREDA (the UNESCO Regional Office in Dakar - the largest UNESCO office in Africa) has posted on his website the FLOSS4Edu initiative, see http://www.edusud.org/spip.php?lang=en (english) and http://www.edusud.org(french). Cheers, Jibril 2008/4/8, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Excellent news! As soon as we have the official word, we can figure out how these things all fit together... D On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:02 PM, mackiwg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, Creative partnerships are certainly possible :-) and I have good news on this front. UNESCO and COL have revised and updated our collective work plan. You will see that OERs @ all levels of education WikiEducator are clearly specified in the work plan: http://www.col.org/colweb/site/pid/4658 This partnership will enable WE to work outside the Commonwealth involving UNESCO member states. We're hoping to make a more concrete announcement about the practical components of this collaboration in the near future -- so lets keep in touch on this one. Cheers Wayne On Apr 7, 2:22 pm, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wayne, There's nothing online yet - official notification from the state government should come on May 9 2008 (for a fall 2009 start). Once that happens, there will be a deluge of info. I'm extremely excited, and have been trying really hard to sit on my hands waiting for the announcement - I didn't want to get everyone all worked up if they're going to tell us no. Every indication is, though, that they're going to tell us yes. I hope to find a creative way to partner with you on the project (creative since I'm not officially part of the Commonwealth). I think the equation is important, too, and I agree it says a lot about sustainability. Now if I could just understand my own equation... =) D On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:06 PM, mackiwg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David ( friends) On Mar 27, 9:08 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: open educational resources + open learning support + open credentialing = open education Apology for the late contribution to the discussion -- I've just returned from my home visit to NZ where I was able to live out my promise to the family by staying away from my laptop. I made a point of travelling to places where I wouldn't have connectivity -- so apart from withdrawal symptoms - was able to live out my commitments :-). David -- I'm VERY interested in learning more about the Open High School of Utah initiative -- where do I find out more? This is a model which could be replicated throughout the Commonwealth and would like to see how WE could build communities of teachers/educators to support the success of initiatives like this. BTW -- I really like the equation: Open educational resources + open learning support + open credentialing = open education -- somehow I think this equation also provides valuable insights into economic sustainability of the Open Education movement. Cheers Wayne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Hi David, Creative partnerships are certainly possible :-) and I have good news on this front. UNESCO and COL have revised and updated our collective work plan. You will see that OERs @ all levels of education WikiEducator are clearly specified in the work plan: http://www.col.org/colweb/site/pid/4658 This partnership will enable WE to work outside the Commonwealth involving UNESCO member states. We're hoping to make a more concrete announcement about the practical components of this collaboration in the near future -- so lets keep in touch on this one. Cheers Wayne On Apr 7, 2:22 pm, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wayne, There's nothing online yet - official notification from the state government should come on May 9 2008 (for a fall 2009 start). Once that happens, there will be a deluge of info. I'm extremely excited, and have been trying really hard to sit on my hands waiting for the announcement - I didn't want to get everyone all worked up if they're going to tell us no. Every indication is, though, that they're going to tell us yes. I hope to find a creative way to partner with you on the project (creative since I'm not officially part of the Commonwealth). I think the equation is important, too, and I agree it says a lot about sustainability. Now if I could just understand my own equation... =) D On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:06 PM, mackiwg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David ( friends) On Mar 27, 9:08 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: open educational resources + open learning support + open credentialing = open education Apology for the late contribution to the discussion -- I've just returned from my home visit to NZ where I was able to live out my promise to the family by staying away from my laptop. I made a point of travelling to places where I wouldn't have connectivity -- so apart from withdrawal symptoms - was able to live out my commitments :-). David -- I'm VERY interested in learning more about the Open High School of Utah initiative -- where do I find out more? This is a model which could be replicated throughout the Commonwealth and would like to see how WE could build communities of teachers/educators to support the success of initiatives like this. BTW -- I really like the equation: Open educational resources + open learning support + open credentialing = open education -- somehow I think this equation also provides valuable insights into economic sustainability of the Open Education movement. Cheers Wayne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Excellent news! As soon as we have the official word, we can figure out how these things all fit together... D On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:02 PM, mackiwg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, Creative partnerships are certainly possible :-) and I have good news on this front. UNESCO and COL have revised and updated our collective work plan. You will see that OERs @ all levels of education WikiEducator are clearly specified in the work plan: http://www.col.org/colweb/site/pid/4658 This partnership will enable WE to work outside the Commonwealth involving UNESCO member states. We're hoping to make a more concrete announcement about the practical components of this collaboration in the near future -- so lets keep in touch on this one. Cheers Wayne On Apr 7, 2:22 pm, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wayne, There's nothing online yet - official notification from the state government should come on May 9 2008 (for a fall 2009 start). Once that happens, there will be a deluge of info. I'm extremely excited, and have been trying really hard to sit on my hands waiting for the announcement - I didn't want to get everyone all worked up if they're going to tell us no. Every indication is, though, that they're going to tell us yes. I hope to find a creative way to partner with you on the project (creative since I'm not officially part of the Commonwealth). I think the equation is important, too, and I agree it says a lot about sustainability. Now if I could just understand my own equation... =) D On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:06 PM, mackiwg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David ( friends) On Mar 27, 9:08 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: open educational resources + open learning support + open credentialing = open education Apology for the late contribution to the discussion -- I've just returned from my home visit to NZ where I was able to live out my promise to the family by staying away from my laptop. I made a point of travelling to places where I wouldn't have connectivity -- so apart from withdrawal symptoms - was able to live out my commitments :-). David -- I'm VERY interested in learning more about the Open High School of Utah initiative -- where do I find out more? This is a model which could be replicated throughout the Commonwealth and would like to see how WE could build communities of teachers/educators to support the success of initiatives like this. BTW -- I really like the equation: Open educational resources + open learning support + open credentialing = open education -- somehow I think this equation also provides valuable insights into economic sustainability of the Open Education movement. Cheers Wayne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
On Mar 26, 6:44 pm, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Which Half? Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs Hey, that's fine Leigh. We know what we're thinking. The thing I'm monitoring is the growth of the new (interactive) media industries. If academic institutions didn't have people like yourself and our playmates on this thread, then they're a bit left out. David's a pretty good example of what is happening. Taking a global perspective, you'd look at the inhabitants of the OpenCourseware Consortia. http://www.ocwconsortium.org/ocwcforum/viewtopic.php?t=158 (They don't talk much) All of them beaver away in splendid (National) isolation. producing me too resources, which display a huge range of good and poor. Meanwhile (their inhabitants) we communicate on little (global) community hubs like this, preaching to the converted and comparing the silk purses which have been whipped up on a sow's ear's budget. Its only when you start to talk about Sustainability and the next steps where the new industries start to get noticed, primarily because they all seem to be based around (global) Communications. The emphasis on OER used to make a bit of sense. Now that there's so many OER, the real challenge seems to be helping people like David get together with his global peers and including students in the development of a constantly evolving (global) course. As you would (probably) say, we are sharing a learning, not delivering an education. Regardless of the tool we might use - wiki, moodle, blog, etc - it's an understanding we are attempting to share. You might be interested in this conversation which has just started down at the Open Uni's OpenLearn initiative. They're an OpenCourseWare member (funded by HP for US$5m.) who are trying to figure out their next steps. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=980 My main interest here is much as yours is. (I've seen you play with the Skypecast beta). But getting the NREN engineers to configure their networks around a (global) Community hubs rather than (National) institutional ones means we're going to have to turn a few heads and change a few routines. Still, I know you've already changed yours. You do realize this makes you a multimedia personality don;t you? :) (Can I have your autograph?) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Holy sh!t SFJ, you are ruthless! Just read through the forum, am liking your angle very much. But its demanding dialogue.. I have 5 minutes spare between now and another meeting, report to write, and marking to do.. (do you hear the little violin just for me?) Can I check the main thrust of your statements?.. it was in that forum, pointing to the numbers that the WMF pull in, and the top 10 Google results.. That's exactly what I'm trying to make fly down here.. we (waste in my opinion) so many millions (collectively) 100's of 1000's institutionally on projects that only do less than 1/1000th of what WMF and other utility scale initiative are doing. And I would have to disagree with Peter Keyse when he says that OpenLearn buz it won't happen spontaneously.. why not? The biggest things on the Internet seem to have been very spontaneous compared to what we collectively try to engineer in education.. if we engaged with those things we just might find that spontaneity ready and waiting. Is that what you're trying to get them to see? We could be adding to the likes of Wikipedia, Youtube and Google results.. and extending on them.. instead, some of our lecturers actually physically look the other way when I show them a Wikipedia entry on their topic of expertise.. why is that? These people have PHDs, they should surely be able to put aside academic snobbery and apply critical skills.. (I have to man handle their heads to get them to look) a whole other story to get them to edit. But some do and are! I will jump with joy when the first funding for RD is pinned to something like us and WMF projects or similar.. Can you call a Skypecast Beta (or Flashmeeting) to further this discussion? I'm at a point where I want to hear it from you some more, reading it is a little cryptic (which I like) but with my time flashing before my eyes, I'm finding it hard to stop and think in this text world we exist on. On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 8:41 AM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 6:44 pm, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Which Half? Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs Hey, that's fine Leigh. We know what we're thinking. The thing I'm monitoring is the growth of the new (interactive) media industries. If academic institutions didn't have people like yourself and our playmates on this thread, then they're a bit left out. David's a pretty good example of what is happening. Taking a global perspective, you'd look at the inhabitants of the OpenCourseware Consortia. http://www.ocwconsortium.org/ocwcforum/viewtopic.php?t=158 (They don't talk much) All of them beaver away in splendid (National) isolation. producing me too resources, which display a huge range of good and poor. Meanwhile (their inhabitants) we communicate on little (global) community hubs like this, preaching to the converted and comparing the silk purses which have been whipped up on a sow's ear's budget. Its only when you start to talk about Sustainability and the next steps where the new industries start to get noticed, primarily because they all seem to be based around (global) Communications. The emphasis on OER used to make a bit of sense. Now that there's so many OER, the real challenge seems to be helping people like David get together with his global peers and including students in the development of a constantly evolving (global) course. As you would (probably) say, we are sharing a learning, not delivering an education. Regardless of the tool we might use - wiki, moodle, blog, etc - it's an understanding we are attempting to share. You might be interested in this conversation which has just started down at the Open Uni's OpenLearn initiative. They're an OpenCourseWare member (funded by HP for US$5m.) who are trying to figure out their next steps. http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=980 My main interest here is much as yours is. (I've seen you play with the Skypecast beta). But getting the NREN engineers to configure their networks around a (global) Community hubs rather than (National) institutional ones means we're going to have to turn a few heads and change a few routines. Still, I know you've already changed yours. You do realize this makes you a multimedia personality don;t you? :) (Can I have your autograph?) -- -- Leigh Blackall +64(0)21736539 skype - leigh_blackall SL - Leroy Goalpost http://learnonline.wordpress.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Hi David, Great initiative - were you aware that WikiEd received a donation of chemistry labs for Gr. 10 and 11 - we have to get them into wiki format...but we've got 'em (they were generated by much lauded BC Science Teacher, Jim Hebden). Would these be of interest to you? - Randy On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:40 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV production stuff. Many didn't have a recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean studio. So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited courses. http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive global media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups' Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed. In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the things a good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) experience. http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/ And then you look at unis' web sites/ brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on their members' communications, the other on the institution's information. i.e. communicating
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Randy, I ~didn't~ know this and we would be absolutely giddy to see them. Many thanks for the heads up... How do we access them / how can we help? David On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Randy Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, Great initiative - were you aware that WikiEd received a donation of chemistry labs for Gr. 10 and 11 - we have to get them into wiki format...but we've got 'em (they were generated by much lauded BC Science Teacher, Jim Hebden). Would these be of interest to you? - Randy On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:40 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV production stuff. Many didn't have a recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean studio. So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited courses. http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive global media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups' Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed. In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and appear to help people meet peers, get their
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Hi David, Glad to hear that you might be interested in them - I have them on my machine at work - they are in MS Word, I believe. We'll need to get them into wiki format (whether that's ODF and WikiEducator's format or both, I'm not a techie but maybe both - so it's useable and reusable). Then it will be available to you, and everyone! A few links: - Here's Jim Hebden's bio: http://www.kamhigh.com/history/Jim%20Hebden.asp - He's a retired science teacher from Kamloops, BC - Here's some bumf on Jim (from the BC Science Teacher's Federation - we also got their permission to use the resources on WikiEd, since it was already hosted on their site). - http://www.bcscta.ca/resources/hebden.htm - There's a pdf on the BCSTA site - which will give you some examples of what Jim donated to usHe sent us a ton of labs many that are not in this document - http://www.bcscta.ca/resources/HebdenEnrichingChemistryTeaching.pdf Also, if you're able to use these, we could also make an announcement to that effect - good publicity for everyone! - Randy On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:52 PM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randy, I ~didn't~ know this and we would be absolutely giddy to see them. Many thanks for the heads up... How do we access them / how can we help? David On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Randy Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, Great initiative - were you aware that WikiEd received a donation of chemistry labs for Gr. 10 and 11 - we have to get them into wiki format...but we've got 'em (they were generated by much lauded BC Science Teacher, Jim Hebden). Would these be of interest to you? - Randy On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:40 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV production stuff. Many didn't have a
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
David, I completely agree. Resources are the first step (or maybe second or third) in the journey to comprehensive open education. I agree that one of the next steps is having support (with some assessment) and once we have these we can move toward accreditation. P On Mar 27, 9:09 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, we're still working out all these details. As I said in my previous message, the school won't receive it's final approvals from the state until May of this year. So while we're working ahead somewhat, we're still waiting to really turn things on until we know we have a green light. D On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, Patricia, had it right, this is really impressive!!! It really gets me thinking and excited about the possibilities for use by WikiEd or other OER projects. I get particularly excited about its reuse and what will be learned from that. Is there any further information (published or otherwise) available about what you are doing? I am curious about things like; licensing approach (CC GPL ??), who will be the content authors / editors / creators, what technical platform / architecture will you be using? Will there be some kind of version management? And given its structure, how easy would it be to localize (language, culture, context)? etc... On Mar 26, 4:49 pm, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of it. Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but rest assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as Open Learning... I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what you initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at least, vastly reduced in cost... On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo... ); Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
David, Patricia, had it right, this is really impressive!!! It really gets me thinking and excited about the possibilities for use by WikiEd or other OER projects. I get particularly excited about its reuse and what will be learned from that. Is there any further information (published or otherwise) available about what you are doing? I am curious about things like; licensing approach (CC GPL ??), who will be the content authors / editors / creators, what technical platform / architecture will you be using? Will there be some kind of version management? And given its structure, how easy would it be to localize (language, culture, context)? etc... On Mar 26, 4:49 pm, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of it. Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but rest assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as Open Learning... I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what you initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at least, vastly reduced in cost... On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo... ); Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Peter, we're still working out all these details. As I said in my previous message, the school won't receive it's final approvals from the state until May of this year. So while we're working ahead somewhat, we're still waiting to really turn things on until we know we have a green light. D On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, Patricia, had it right, this is really impressive!!! It really gets me thinking and excited about the possibilities for use by WikiEd or other OER projects. I get particularly excited about its reuse and what will be learned from that. Is there any further information (published or otherwise) available about what you are doing? I am curious about things like; licensing approach (CC GPL ??), who will be the content authors / editors / creators, what technical platform / architecture will you be using? Will there be some kind of version management? And given its structure, how easy would it be to localize (language, culture, context)? etc... On Mar 26, 4:49 pm, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of it. Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but rest assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as Open Learning... I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what you initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at least, vastly reduced in cost... On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo... ); Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school.
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrotehttp://learnonline.wordpress.com/2006/01/07/learning-should-be-free-its-an-education-that-can-cost/on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV production stuff. Many didn't have a recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean studio. So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited courses. http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive global media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups' Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed. In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the things a good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) experience. http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/ And then you look at unis' web sites/ brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on their members' communications, the other on the institution's information. i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs, National (.edu) NETWORKS. As Cormac says, you don't get a PhD, but you might be a damn sight more eligible to get a job with a certain employer institution that is open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done. I don't think it's even a matter of them being open minded. It's more a matter that in the commercial world, one gets paid for results, and if you can point to something, like Liam can, who do you think will get the job?.This is very new ground. I also think Leigh is quite right. Through an international network of teachers and assessors, we might see the cost of such processes and services greatly reduced! But you have to have the international network first, and all we do have at the moment is a bunch of National .edu ones. Thankfully Web 2.0 Inc. are able to help fill the obvious gaps. But you got this wrong. Learning is still free, education still costs. Nah, accreditation still costs. You know, priests used to sell indulgences. That's why the Reformation (supposedly) started. Perhaps, rather than talking about accreditation, we should be talking about where the new jobs are, what skills are required and who's doing the employing. -- -- Leigh Blackall +64(0)21736539 skype - leigh_blackall SL - Leroy Goalpost http://learnonline.wordpress.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Dear David, Wow, this is really impressive!! and will serve as worldwide and leading example. Great work Warm regards, Patricia -Original Message- From: wikieducator@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Wiley Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:41 AM To: wikieducator@googlegroups.com Subject: [WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http ://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV production stuff. Many didn't have a recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean studio. So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited courses. http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive global media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups' Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed. In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the things a good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) experience. http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/ And then you look at unis' web sites/ brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on their members' communications, the other on the institution's information. i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs, National (.edu) NETWORKS. As Cormac
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellboyleedtecarticle.pdf); Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.s... Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of it. Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but rest assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as Open Learning... I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what you initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at least, vastly reduced in cost... On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter, The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt pays the bills). D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward as an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, will students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just be open within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out the model... There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion thread. Are we mis-using the word Education within OER. As we seem to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is what you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning Resources (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellboyleedtecarticle.pdf ); Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access Accrediation before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole of Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't we need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? I look forward to your reply(ies)... P On Mar 26, 8:40 am, David Wiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon and Leigh, We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one step in the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working on establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded (and therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) completely online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the entire curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a Fall 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning that we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e., not OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the high school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in 2012 we're running all four years of high school. All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter document, as will all the technology we will use to run the school. We hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and the funding of both learning AND education... D On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) Maybe I should clarify what I say about learning being free, education still costs I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are always free to do, and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and communication, learning might be vastly improved. But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the formality that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. Education is the bit of paper that says you have been learning... So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a bit too cynical in my use of the work education. Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by my slogan. On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. Evaluation to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, always comes down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. have institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old industries, no problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; rarely a clue. Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 years. Unis were trying to teach AV production stuff. Many didn't have a recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or actors interested in recording. Even if some students did, they wouldn't be encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a lovely clean studio. So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in his studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers accredited courses. http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis were included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that the accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave students a piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find them a job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive global media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project Groups' Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, while at the same time watching national Teaching institutions struggling to think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have changed. In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of global interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining and appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the things a good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) experience. http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/ And then you look at unis' web sites/ brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on their members' communications, the other on the institution's information. i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs, National (.edu) NETWORKS. As Cormac says, you don't get a PhD, but you might be a damn sight more eligible to get a job with a certain employer institution that is open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done. I don't think it's even a matter of them being open minded. It's more a matter that in the commercial world, one gets paid for results, and if you can point to something, like Liam can, who do you think will get the job?.This is very new ground. I also think Leigh is quite right. Through an international network of teachers and assessors, we might see the cost of such processes and services greatly reduced! But you have to have the international network first, and all we do have at the moment is a bunch of National .edu ones. Thankfully Web 2.0 Inc. are able to help fill the obvious gaps. But you got this wrong. Learning is still free, education still costs. Nah, accreditation still costs. You know, priests used to sell indulgences. That's why the Reformation (supposedly) started. Perhaps, rather than talking about accreditation, we should be talking about where the new jobs are, what skills are required and who's doing the employing. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: International accredited OER based university
Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others jump in... Cormac, There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons contribution is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can target a single person and evaluate what they have done... probably one day (soon), see these two references; http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/ http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~luca/papers/07/wikiwww2007.pdf I think we could do with a Wiki based Open Educational Resource Maturity Model (WOERMM). I start to touch on this in a paper I wrote a few months back; http://www.rawsthorne.org/docs/PeterRawsthorne.QualityOERbasedWikis.pdf I'll definitely invest the time and read terry's paper. Peter On Mar 24, 5:22 pm, Cormac Lawler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for this thread Peter. :-) I think that what you envisage is possible - ie creating an international accredited institution that would award academic degrees on the basis of a set of work (OERs, blog posts, papers etc) - let's call it an e-Portfolio (in the current UK government lingo). However I would envisage a number of issues: * Authorship - if you are creating a resource on, for example, a wiki, how is someone evaluating your work to know that this work is your own work? Or how much of it is yours? Digging through a page history can be a lot of work - would we expect the evaluator to do this? And this idea of authoring materials leading to accreditation - does *everyone* developing a certain amount and standard of OER materials automatically get a degree? (What then constitutes OER - any article on Wikipedia, etc etc?) * Academic standards - notoriously varied across national educational systems. It would be a huge challenge to such an institution - though it is already being addressed within the OER movement. * Evaluation/supervision - someone is going to have to be the person to say: yes, this person deserves a degree/PhD... I would say, especially at PhD level, that this person would need to be familiar with your work, and not be simply handed a portfolio after three years - and I would then argue that this would constitute a form of supervision (ongoing critical dialogue) - perhaps in the network-based way you envisaged. There seems to be a significant other people's time element to all this. Which brings me to.. * Money - I know you didn't mention this explicitly - but did you envisage all this to be free? Subsidised? Paid for by whom? I'll just add a slightly different slant on this discussion - education is obsessed with formal accreditation - but perhaps there might be another model - one of recognition. Perhaps after working on a solid body of OERs and published papers etc, you don't get a PhD, but you might be a damn sight more eligible to get a job with a certain employer institution that is open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done. I think Teemu Leinonen has written about this before (perhaps on his blog http://flosse.dicole.org/, though I'm not sure). Sure, this option is far weaker than the current accreditation model - but it just might become an option in certain contexts. In any case, I'm only throwing these ideas into the pot - but it's a great discussion to be having! Cheers, Cormac On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leigh and others who may be interested, Thanks for this reply. So what your saying is that Otago will give me credit for a WikiEd course that is designed around the NZQA as long as I give them money. Is it a graduate level course? Is Otago working toward being able to complete WikiEd courses and get a graduate level degree? Can I transfer this credit to another institution for my graduate level degree? It would seem to me that what Otago is doing is great, and a step in the right direction but it is still essentially using WikiEd as a LMS (or part of their LMS for I still have to complete assessment activities) and I still have to pay for the credential... Please correct me if I have misunderstood... I'd change your last statement to say Learning and education is free, assessment and credential still costs Anyhow, I want to dive deeper on this topic. I want to discuss if people think it is possible to create an international accredited institution that gave me a graduate level degree based on my completion / creation of OER (and related published research)? Maybe the international institution is a social network with a top quality reputation. i.e. if your level of scholarship is recognized by this institution / social network then it is considered the same as a PhD from Athabasca University... lets call it Open Access Accreditation... Isn't this the natural progression from connectionist (see siemens) approaches? It would seem that an institution like UNESCO or ICDE is where this could start and with the writing
