Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Florence Devouard]

Le 06/10/15 06:25, Gnangarra a écrit :

This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in this
decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who worked
on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone the
courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this,


Actually. I did.

Florence


not even the WMF has

made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more personal
level..

my month ahead;

- in three hours a meeting with a bid sponsor
- in 2 days a workshop with GLAM commencement of a new project that will
include 100,000+ image donation
- in 5 days WMAU AGM where no doubt these events will be a topic of
discussion
- in 15 days on 21st & 22nd I'll giving presentations at a national GLAM
conference about working with us and about we have already started

I do all of this and a lot more as a volunteer not a paid employee,  3 days
ago my perception in the openness, honesty and integrity of the projects
took a big hit, so as hollow as it'll be now it'd still be nice to think
that the people involved in this have the courage to acknowledge & own
their failures in the way the changes evolved and were communicated.

As a foot note I contacted the WMF three days ago asking for information
and an apology then that I could take to those outside our community who
have also put time, effort and resources into the bid, those email havent
even been acknowledge as being received.





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Richard Symonds]

Yaroslav,

To be fair to Ellie (and speaking as an outsider), she is extremely busy
and usually answers direct emails quite quickly, but doesn't usually get
involved in big community discussion threads on mailing lists because she
spends a lot of her time travelling (and thus, I suspect,using a mobile
device).

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 6 October 2015 at 15:21, Yaroslav M. Blanter  wrote:

> On 2015-10-06 06:25, Gnangarra wrote:
>
>> This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in this
>> decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who worked
>> on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
>> changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone the
>> courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this, not even the WMF
>> has
>> made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more personal
>> level..
>>
>>
> To be honest, I can not recollect a single instance WMF people ever
> apologized to the community for any decision, even when it was immediately
> clear that they screwed up badly (like removing admin rights on WMF Wiki
> etc). I do not expect it this time. I do not see Elly Young in any of the
> Wikimania threads.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 2015-10-06 16:27, Richard Symonds wrote:

Yaroslav,

To be fair to Ellie (and speaking as an outsider), she is extremely 
busy
and usually answers direct emails quite quickly, but doesn't usually 
get
involved in big community discussion threads on mailing lists because 
she

spends a lot of her time travelling (and thus, I suspect,using a mobile
device).

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992



Hi Richard,

needless to say, I will be happy to be proven wrong.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Andrea Zanni]

Hi Yaroslav


> To be honest, I can not recollect a single instance WMF people ever
>> apologized to the community for any decision, even when it was immediately
>> clear that they screwed up badly (like removing admin rights on WMF Wiki
>> etc).
>
>
I think it's worth remembering one time they did: a month ago they, when
they decided to change the schedule of the fundraising in Italy, as it was
conflicting with Wiki Loves Monuments.

I understand your point, of course, but I think it's fair to recall the
good things as well as the bad ones, if we want to improve this
relationship.

Aubrey

>
> Yaroslav
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 2015-10-06 16:21, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:

To be honest, I can not recollect a single instance WMF people ever
apologized to the community for any decision, even when it was
immediately clear that they screwed up badly (like removing admin
rights on WMF Wiki etc). I do not expect it this time. I do not see
Elly Young in any of the Wikimania threads.

Cheers
Yaroslav



I was off-list provided with such an example, and Aubrey made another 
example off-list, so that I am going to retract my statement. However, I 
certainly would like to see more examples of apologies when people screw 
up, and also thanking volunteers in public never harms. I thank Elly for 
her response, though I do not feel like she addresses the main issue: 
asking Manila and Perth teams to submit a bid at the time when it was 
decided that Montreal gets it. This is not my business anymore though, I 
would not attend Wikimania in either city anyway.


Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Ellie Young]

I believe we all know now by now that the Committee regrets the  delay in
posting a recommendation about the process change for venues/hosts for
Wikimania.   There was no intention to blindside anyone or to not seek
input from the community.   We should have updated the bid timeline to
reflect that things were being discussed and might be possibly changed. (I
was also wanting more time to investigate whether the idea of Montreal for
a 2017 venue could become a reality e.g., meeting space, prices, hotels,
etc confirmed, etc.)

I have reached out to the Perth bid, and also to Josh Lim about a bid from
the Philippines (although it wasn't listed) about the future and to offer
whatever support they need.If anyone else is thinking about hosting a
future Wikimania, I would like to strongly encourage you to get in touch
directly with me before starting.We are not happy about wasting any
volunteer time.   I have worked closely with recent groups in preparing
their proposals and it was worked well-- saving time and effort on both
ends.

In the near future I will be working with the Foundation and the Steering
Committee to support development of a clearer process going forward.  Siko
has outlined some of that in her posting.   And as Richard has said below,
I am usually very prompt in responding, but I also have a lot on my plate
right now that are taking precedent-- like the financial reporting from the
past two Wikimanias to attend to, survey results,  preparing for a site
visit to Montreal (and I am part-time).

I look forward to working with everyone in the coming months and years on
 improving the conference and meeting the community needs.

Keep those cards and letters coming!

Ellie

Ellie Young
Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
eyo...@wikimedia.org


>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 15:27:35 +0100
> From: Richard Symonds <richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk>
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 2015-10-06 06:25, Gnangarra wrote:
This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in 
this
decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who 
worked

on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone 
the
courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this, not even the WMF 
has
made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more 
personal

level..



To be honest, I can not recollect a single instance WMF people ever 
apologized to the community for any decision, even when it was 
immediately clear that they screwed up badly (like removing admin rights 
on WMF Wiki etc). I do not expect it this time. I do not see Elly Young 
in any of the Wikimania threads.


Cheers
Yaroslav

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[Wikimedia-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Gnangarra]

This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in this
decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who worked
on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone the
courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this, not even the WMF has
made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more personal
level..

my month ahead;

   - in three hours a meeting with a bid sponsor
   - in 2 days a workshop with GLAM commencement of a new project that will
   include 100,000+ image donation
   - in 5 days WMAU AGM where no doubt these events will be a topic of
   discussion
   - in 15 days on 21st & 22nd I'll giving presentations at a national GLAM
   conference about working with us and about we have already started

I do all of this and a lot more as a volunteer not a paid employee,  3 days
ago my perception in the openness, honesty and integrity of the projects
took a big hit, so as hollow as it'll be now it'd still be nice to think
that the people involved in this have the courage to acknowledge & own
their failures in the way the changes evolved and were communicated.

As a foot note I contacted the WMF three days ago asking for information
and an apology then that I could take to those outside our community who
have also put time, effort and resources into the bid, those email havent
even been acknowledge as being received.

-- 
​We all make mistakes but its what we do next​ that counts

​Gideon​
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