Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 2:59 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Wil Sinclair wrote: Hi all, I've started a new wiki called Offwiki: http://offwiki.org. Our community discusses potential changes to Wikipedia and its Wikimedia sister projects that aren't easily discussed in forums like this mailing list. We also try new ideas that we hope will be adopted on-wiki- both social and technical in nature. Welcome back! I enjoyed the utensil analogy on the main page. It's very cute. :-) --- Spoon: If Offwiki were common cutlery, it would be a spoon. It's not a knife, because we don't make our points here by hurting Wikipedia or other Wikipedia-related sites. And it's not a fork, because we're here to build a better encyclopedia by making Wikipedia itself better. --- I also applaud the effort in setting up your own MediaWiki installation. MediaWiki is a neat platform; it can be a bit brutish at times, but it has a lot of nice features, including a decent support structure and a vibrant development community behind it. We have had a number (not enough!) of Wikimedia (usually Wikipedia, and typically English Wikipedia) discussion sites, but has there been any previous ones that have used mediawiki? That is, other than Meta.. ? IMO it is unfortunate that Wil didnt hasnt made more use of Meta, and I am curious what the reasoning behind that decision was. There are very few people banned from Meta, thought it does happen occasionally and is usually reversed if they can behave. I am also very curious about who came up with the Offwiki term 'Flounder'. http://offwiki.org/wiki/Meta:Proposals#Flounders To me it feels like a very nasty slur against Jimmy Wales. Also, will Offwiki be multilingual? Does it intend to cover projects other than English Wikipedia? If not, it isnt very relevant to the wikimedia-l list, but is of course relevant to wikien-l which I have cc:d which appears to be its primary focus. -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
We have had a number (not enough!) of Wikimedia (usually Wikipedia, and typically English Wikipedia) discussion sites, but has there been any previous ones that have used mediawiki? That is, other than Meta.. ? I can't answer your question about previous sites, but I can tell you that the reasoning behind using MediaWiki was to test ideas in both governance and technology. IMO it is unfortunate that Wil didnt hasnt made more use of Meta, and I am curious what the reasoning behind that decision was. There are very few people banned from Meta, thought it does happen occasionally and is usually reversed if they can behave. Maybe my answer above addresses this. Part of the reasoning is to create an environment where everyone can contribute. But we're also experiment with different forms of governance and testing the impact of technology changes on the site. This isn't something we can do on Meta. I am also very curious about who came up with the Offwiki term 'Flounder'. http://offwiki.org/wiki/Meta:Proposals#Flounders To me it feels like a very nasty slur against Jimmy Wales. Actually, I did. And I didn't mean to slight Jimmy. I respect Jimmy greatly. The idea behind flounder is that founder is a loaded word in some circles of Wikipedia critics. Also, it's self-deprecation; I figured we'd have issues in the beginning- after all, I'd never run a Mediwiki installation before- and we've greatly exceeded my expectations on this front. ;) In general, I'd like the site to take a more light-hearted direction than it has so far, but it's up to the community. Also, will Offwiki be multilingual? Does it intend to cover projects other than English Wikipedia? If not, it isnt very relevant to the wikimedia-l list, but is of course relevant to wikien-l which I have cc:d which appears to be its primary focus. Sure, it can be fully multilingual. I believe one person already suggested articles in Russian. In any case, we should probably discuss this on Offwiki itself. I'm happy to see some interest, but it is off topic for this forum. ,Wil ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
On 10/07/2014, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote: ... So, if you're concerned about your username being phished out, then consider creating an account at http://offwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page. Maybe you'll even stick around for a few minutes to see what we've been up to. :) I have been informed that someone has set up an account under my account name on your 'offwiki' website. I presume it's one of the long term fruitcakes obsessed with my personal life. Please block any account that claims to be me, unless I email you otherwise. I am copying to the public list, so that everyone is aware that should anything defamatory have been written publicly under my name on your website, I officially wash my hands of it. By the way, the same goes for the Wikimedia UK website, which has had some rather stupid systematic abuse recently, which has been deleted without me seeing it. As I was falsely accused only recently of abuse over the internet, I would like to reiterate that this crap has nothing to do with me. I suggest if anyone is harassed by someone claiming to be me, either ignore it, or if the abuse is criminal in nature, do not hesitate to report it to the police, along with any IP addresses or header information you can get hold of. I would be *delighted* to hear of someone being prosecuted, as I suspect these are the same people that have harassed me in the past, and have moved on to systematically attempting to discredit or cause me damage, by being abusive in ways that may be interpreted to be me. Fae -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
The standard of verification used in other offwiki venues (for instance, the en.wp UTRS unblock system, IRC cloaks, etc) is generally having the user make an edit using their wikimedia account, to their own userspace, verifying that they are the holder of account [whatever] on offwiki site [whatever]. I see no particular reason you couldn't do the same (either at registration, or when asked by a wikipedian whose account has been hijacked) if you're concerned about usernames being hijacked on Offwiki.org, and any number of experienced Wikimedians could have told you this if you'd asked. I find it a bit odd that your preferred solution is instead to send an email to everyone that gives off a vaguely join my site or someone else will do it for you vibe. On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote: Hi all, I've started a new wiki called Offwiki: http://offwiki.org. Our community discusses potential changes to Wikipedia and its Wikimedia sister projects that aren't easily discussed in forums like this mailing list. We also try new ideas that we hope will be adopted on-wiki- both social and technical in nature. But that's not the primary reason I'm writing all of you. I've noticed that many prominent Wikipedians have created accounts to avoid impostors claiming their very public usernames for themselves. My apologies, but Wikimedia doesn't run an OpenID server, and there's really no other way for me to confirm identities before a user has created a username. The problem is technical, and AFAIK there is nothing I can do about it. So, if you're concerned about your username being phished out, then consider creating an account at http://offwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page. Maybe you'll even stick around for a few minutes to see what we've been up to. :) Thanks. ,Wil ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
Wil, thank you for the announcement of your site. Although things there were in a bit of a chaotic state the last time I looked at it and there are clearly some bugs to be worked out, we will see whether it can ultimately emerge as a fruitful discussion forum. With regard to potential impersonation user registrations, including users registering in the names of prominent Wikipedians, or for that matter of prominent Wikipedia critics, it is essential that you take steps to verify the identity of registrants using such usernames. Existing criticism sites such as Wikipediocracy and previously Wikipedia Review have consistently checked such registrations before allowing postings, and it is good practice that they do so, to avoid potential negative impacts not only on the persons potentially impersonated but on the reputations of their sites as well. (There are other issues as to which those sites do not epitomize good practice in my view, but this one they get right.) Similarly, I assume that such checks are performed on Wikimedia mailing lists such as this one. There is every reason that offwiki can do so as well and I hope you intend to. Regards, Newyorkbrad On 7/9/14, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote: Hi all, I've started a new wiki called Offwiki: http://offwiki.org. Our community discusses potential changes to Wikipedia and its Wikimedia sister projects that aren't easily discussed in forums like this mailing list. We also try new ideas that we hope will be adopted on-wiki- both social and technical in nature. But that's not the primary reason I'm writing all of you. I've noticed that many prominent Wikipedians have created accounts to avoid impostors claiming their very public usernames for themselves. My apologies, but Wikimedia doesn't run an OpenID server, and there's really no other way for me to confirm identities before a user has created a username. The problem is technical, and AFAIK there is nothing I can do about it. So, if you're concerned about your username being phished out, then consider creating an account at http://offwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page. Maybe you'll even stick around for a few minutes to see what we've been up to. :) Thanks. ,Wil ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
What do users of this list feel about it being used to discuss issues, or attract more members, to non-Wikimedia websites? Checking the definition at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l it's ambiguous as really almost anything that mentions Wikimedia could be in scope. I'm slightly concerned that if the 'offwiki' website is free to use this list membership to attract greater participation by Wikimedians, then to be fair and equitable, the same courtesy should be allowed to any other website or forum which may be expected to have a number of Wikimedians as participants. Obvious examples are wikia.org, wikipediocracy.com and facebook.com. Fae On 10/07/2014, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote: Wil, thank you for the announcement of your site. Although things there were in a bit of a chaotic state the last time I looked at it and there are clearly some bugs to be worked out, we will see whether it can ultimately emerge as a fruitful discussion forum. With regard to potential impersonation user registrations, including users registering in the names of prominent Wikipedians, or for that matter of prominent Wikipedia critics, it is essential that you take steps to verify the identity of registrants using such usernames. Existing criticism sites such as Wikipediocracy and previously Wikipedia Review have consistently checked such registrations before allowing postings, and it is good practice that they do so, to avoid potential negative impacts not only on the persons potentially impersonated but on the reputations of their sites as well. (There are other issues as to which those sites do not epitomize good practice in my view, but this one they get right.) Similarly, I assume that such checks are performed on Wikimedia mailing lists such as this one. There is every reason that offwiki can do so as well and I hope you intend to. Regards, Newyorkbrad On 7/9/14, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote: Hi all, I've started a new wiki called Offwiki: http://offwiki.org. Our community discusses potential changes to Wikipedia and its Wikimedia sister projects that aren't easily discussed in forums like this mailing list. We also try new ideas that we hope will be adopted on-wiki- both social and technical in nature. But that's not the primary reason I'm writing all of you. I've noticed that many prominent Wikipedians have created accounts to avoid impostors claiming their very public usernames for themselves. My apologies, but Wikimedia doesn't run an OpenID server, and there's really no other way for me to confirm identities before a user has created a username. The problem is technical, and AFAIK there is nothing I can do about it. So, if you're concerned about your username being phished out, then consider creating an account at http://offwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page. Maybe you'll even stick around for a few minutes to see what we've been up to. :) Thanks. ,Wil ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
Given that the purpose of the new site is discussion toward the improvement of Wikipedia/Wikimedia, I don't see a problem in principle with a post mentioning the existence of the new site. Repeated promotional e-mails would be out of line, but I trust that will not be an issue. Newyorkbrad On 7/9/14, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote: What do users of this list feel about it being used to discuss issues, or attract more members, to non-Wikimedia websites? Checking the definition at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l it's ambiguous as really almost anything that mentions Wikimedia could be in scope. I'm slightly concerned that if the 'offwiki' website is free to use this list membership to attract greater participation by Wikimedians, then to be fair and equitable, the same courtesy should be allowed to any other website or forum which may be expected to have a number of Wikimedians as participants. Obvious examples are wikia.org, wikipediocracy.com and facebook.com. Fae On 10/07/2014, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote: Wil, thank you for the announcement of your site. Although things there were in a bit of a chaotic state the last time I looked at it and there are clearly some bugs to be worked out, we will see whether it can ultimately emerge as a fruitful discussion forum. With regard to potential impersonation user registrations, including users registering in the names of prominent Wikipedians, or for that matter of prominent Wikipedia critics, it is essential that you take steps to verify the identity of registrants using such usernames. Existing criticism sites such as Wikipediocracy and previously Wikipedia Review have consistently checked such registrations before allowing postings, and it is good practice that they do so, to avoid potential negative impacts not only on the persons potentially impersonated but on the reputations of their sites as well. (There are other issues as to which those sites do not epitomize good practice in my view, but this one they get right.) Similarly, I assume that such checks are performed on Wikimedia mailing lists such as this one. There is every reason that offwiki can do so as well and I hope you intend to. Regards, Newyorkbrad On 7/9/14, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote: Hi all, I've started a new wiki called Offwiki: http://offwiki.org. Our community discusses potential changes to Wikipedia and its Wikimedia sister projects that aren't easily discussed in forums like this mailing list. We also try new ideas that we hope will be adopted on-wiki- both social and technical in nature. But that's not the primary reason I'm writing all of you. I've noticed that many prominent Wikipedians have created accounts to avoid impostors claiming their very public usernames for themselves. My apologies, but Wikimedia doesn't run an OpenID server, and there's really no other way for me to confirm identities before a user has created a username. The problem is technical, and AFAIK there is nothing I can do about it. So, if you're concerned about your username being phished out, then consider creating an account at http://offwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page. Maybe you'll even stick around for a few minutes to see what we've been up to. :) Thanks. ,Wil ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Offwiki
Wil Sinclair wrote: Hi all, I've started a new wiki called Offwiki: http://offwiki.org. Our community discusses potential changes to Wikipedia and its Wikimedia sister projects that aren't easily discussed in forums like this mailing list. We also try new ideas that we hope will be adopted on-wiki- both social and technical in nature. Welcome back! I enjoyed the utensil analogy on the main page. It's very cute. :-) --- Spoon: If Offwiki were common cutlery, it would be a spoon. It's not a knife, because we don't make our points here by hurting Wikipedia or other Wikipedia-related sites. And it's not a fork, because we're here to build a better encyclopedia by making Wikipedia itself better. --- I also applaud the effort in setting up your own MediaWiki installation. MediaWiki is a neat platform; it can be a bit brutish at times, but it has a lot of nice features, including a decent support structure and a vibrant development community behind it. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
