I promised you an answer, and here it comes finally. Sorry it took me a
Why do I want to be in this movement and not in another one?
Because I find the people here as crazy idealist as I am. Because the tasks
give us something to do that allows us to have something in common.
I just repeated the formulation of James's proposal (our messages crossed,
I did not react to your message).
Concerning your earlier question on whether "people getting money to learn
to listen" would work - well, it might. But than these people should be
clearly distinguished from the
what do you mean by people working at the front? Do you mean that you would
like some leadership in the movement?
(understanding leadership as the capacity to listen to many voices, and
I never heard of any company where there are rotations of people who
Actually, concerning the group of people working "at the front" might work
(as soon as it is not just about the support of the English Wikipedia), and
I would not count sending them to Wikimania as a monetary reward - assuming
this group undergoes regular rotations, and people who stop working
Thanks for explaining why you didn't answer. I agree with you, these kind
of conversations can be *very* exausting, but in this case I am not looking
for an argument, I am just trying to understand your position better. You
formulated your standing against "regular paid editors not
James, I think you yourself earlier today put forwards a possible first
step in this direction.
Support a group of people working "at the front" in neutralizing paid
editing and other bad editing, by giving them possiblity to meet IRL,
and why not at a session commited to this issue at
There is a fair bit of literature on intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation.
Wikipedia has been mostly built on the first. Introducing greater extrinsic
motivation may decrease intrinsic motivation. Doing so should thus be done
with great care, at a small scale that can be reversed, and be well
Well, I did not reply because I disagree but in my experience having long
arguments with people one disagrees with usually does not lead to agreement
and is also very tiring. You gave your opinion, I gave mine, it is up to
other readers to decide whose arguments are stronger. I really
Yes, you already made your point earlier, and I addressed it here  and
also in the draft proposal to enable some volunteers to receive donations
for their work . The fact that you neither commented on my reply to your
initial concern, nor on the proposal suggests me several
On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 10:25 PM, David Cuenca Tudela
your mail is very long and dense, I don't know where to start:
so I'll start from a random point ;-)
> You say that that WMF bears responsibility in the "failure" of our
> Wikisource community project, and that it is not
We did have a proposal on EN WP for a group of functionaires to help deal
with issues pertaining to undisclosed paid editing. I do not feel this
group would require payment but support to meet once or twice a year IMO
could be useful. Such a group could play a leading roll in:
1) Collecting and
I can agree with most what you write Yaroslav, but I want also to remind
the scenario that started this issue.
I believe we are in a process of worsening deterioration of the content
in our major project (Enwp,dewp etc). This as the rewards to enter
biased info in these are getting higher as
I made this point earlier this month, but let me make it again.
Money generated by volunteers should indeed go back to volunteers. It just
can not go back as a salary. If it goes back as a salary, you have people
working together, some of them being paid for the work, and some doing it
On 10/06/18 05:01, Natacha Rault wrote:
Have a nice day, I have just bought myself a canoe kayak, which is the only way
for me not to get entangled in contributing on a bright sunny day.
I cant bring my computer on the river!
Yes you can, if you have the money for it. They make waterproof
Thanks for having this conversation.
Having a balanced life is important, but why should the revenues generated by
volunteer work not go back to volunteers also?
In truth, wikimedia projects are addictive, time consuming, they generate
passionate debates and I have seen many going down the
I hear you.
I live in that part of the world where getting any job and earning money,
by any means possible, is the topmost priority of life, as unemployment and
corruption has become intimate part of most of the people. Involvement in
volunteer works with no personal or financial
You speak so much truth in your words that I'm feeling overwhelmed right
now. Because like a doctor who cares about his patient, you have just very
lovingly and figuratively told me, "you are deeply sick". It hurts, I
struggle accepting the truth, but deep inside I know that the only
I'm really sorry to hear this, and feel your pain.
Having been through this in the past, I know (a bit) of how it feels.
I just disagree with your analysis of seeing money as a mere tool. It can
empower us, it can destroy us. Whoever said money is the root of all evil,
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