Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-27 Thread Leinonen Teemu
Hei, 

I kind of sympathize with Jens' points. Mr. Zuckerberg, and especially Facebook 
as a business, are not necessary in a perfect synchrony with the mission and 
vision of the Wikimedia / Wikipedia movement. Even if this is the case we may 
ask does it still make sense for us to collaborate with their initiative? Would 
it advantage our very own mission and vision?

I also think that we are all people, also Mr. Zuckerberg, and people have 
different sides. I interpret that in the internet.org a group of *people*, 
working for big corporations, have seen a possibility to do something *good* 
that is same time in the interests of their businesses. I think we often forget 
that also in big corporation there are people, individuals who do choices. I do 
not see in here any hidden agendas or wrong doing. I see people trying to do 
something good.

Like GerardM pointed out, the internet.org may help us to get knowledge for 
people who otherwise would not have access to the Wikipedia. I do not see that 
this would move us somehow to the dark side, especially when the *people* in 
the internet.org are not necessary evil. 

With the fact that the Wikimedia foundation is financially sustainable, we also 
have a great position to negotiate with the internet.org people. I actually 
think that they need more Wikimedia / Wikipedia than we need them. Still, I 
think collaboration with them could advance our mission.

Best regards, 

- Teemu

On 27.8.2013, at 9.32, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hoi,
 Jens, I am sorry there is nothing in what you say that has a bearing on
 what the aim is of the Wikimedia Foundation. Our aim is to get
 information/knowledge to every person in the world. The people that may be
 reached by this initiative are the ones we do not reach.
 
 When we can reach them through something like a Wikipedia ZERO approach,
 this would be awesome never mind if Facebook et al make money out of it.
 The NSA et al have a reach that includes us all. Nothing is likely to
 change at that. It is however beside the point. The point is that we may
 reach more people and consequently do a better job at what our aim is.
 Thanks,
 GerardM
 
 
 On 26 August 2013 23:58, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote:
 
 The internet Mr. Zuggerberg wants was nothing to do with the ideas of free
 knowledge, online collaboration and open source as it is provided and
 promoted by Wikimedia.
 
 Don't believe the Hype. Even and especially if it is Hype 2.0.
 
 Just because the Silicon Valley billionaires got caught with sleeping with
 the NSA suddenly they push an open internet for the world-Idea to
 distract everybody from the dark roots.
 
 Wikimedia should stay far away from this crowd and its initiatives. Maybe
 in the future we should even get more distance between them (Facebook,
 Google, etc.) and us.
 
 Jens
 
 2013/8/26 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
 
 Hoi,
 For your information ... an interview with Mr Zuggerberg... In my opinion
 there is an opportunity as he is looking for dense information.. we are
 really good at that :)
 Thanks,
 Gerard
 
 http://www.wired.com/business/2013/08/mark-zuckerberg-internet-org/
 
 
 On 23 August 2013 14:38, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data.
 
 
 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
 
 Hoi,
 But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to
 be
 seen
 by many more people, they do us a service.
 
 In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first
 of
 all
 about getting the knowledge out there.
 Thanks,
  GerardM
 
 
 On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote:
 
 Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel,
 they
 don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So,
 actually,
 Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make
 their
 next
 moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and
 with
 whom
 they really cooperate.
 
 It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web
 between
 Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they
 speak
 of
 freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just
 because
 they
 use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do.
 
 Jens
 
 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org
 
 Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
 I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold
 for
 now.
 Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how
 would
 internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and
 effort
 to
 be
 involved?
 
 If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our
 movement
 joins
 such a dishonest project.
 
 If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and
 adapt
 their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a
 dilemma.
 A dilemna between our 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-27 Thread JP Béland
Wikimedia should stay far away from this crowd and its initiatives. Maybe
in the future we should even get more distance between them (Facebook,
Google, etc.) and us.

And how that would bring us closer to our vision to have all humans
have access to knowledge?

JP Béland

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-26 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
For your information ... an interview with Mr Zuggerberg... In my opinion
there is an opportunity as he is looking for dense information.. we are
really good at that :)
Thanks,
 Gerard

http://www.wired.com/business/2013/08/mark-zuckerberg-internet-org/


On 23 August 2013 14:38, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.comwrote:

 Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data.


 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com

  Hoi,
  But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be
 seen
  by many more people, they do us a service.
 
  In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of
 all
  about getting the knowledge out there.
  Thanks,
GerardM
 
 
  On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote:
 
   Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel,
 they
   don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So,
  actually,
   Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their
 next
   moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with
  whom
   they really cooperate.
  
   It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web
 between
   Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of
   freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because
  they
   use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do.
  
   Jens
  
   2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org
  
Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
 I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for
  now.
 Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how
 would
 internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort
 to
  be
 involved?
   
If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement
  joins
such a dishonest project.
   
If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and
 adapt
their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a
  dilemma.
A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical
  move)
and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet
(strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have
 done
it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in
 such
situations ;)
   
If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet...
  then
this is really a dream we should be part of!
   
But, this is all about speculations...
   
I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my
  hears.
But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects.
That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction
 they
will make the next moves.
   
Emmanuel
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* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
   
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   web: http://www.wikimedia.de
   mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de
  
   Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
   Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
   Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
   anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
   Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-26 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hear, hear.
Ziko

2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com

 Hoi,
 But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen
 by many more people, they do us a service.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Emmanuel Engelhart
I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this
project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the
Internet.

More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of
their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried
to do 15 years ago.

... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this
alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to
the Internet.

So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI

Emmanuel

Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit :
 Hi, 
 
 Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung, Nokia, 
 Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek? 
 
 Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders, nonprofits, 
 local communities and experts who are working together to bring the internet 
 to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.[1, 2] 
 
 Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate with 
 this? 
 
 Any comments?
 
 Best regards, 
 
   - Teemu 
 
 [1] http://www.internet.org
 [2] 
 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html

-- 
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* Web: http://www.kiwix.org
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Kul Wadhwa
Emmanuel,

I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now.
Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be
involved?

--Kul


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.orgwrote:

 I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this
 project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the
 Internet.

 More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of
 their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried
 to do 15 years ago.

 ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this
 alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to
 the Internet.

 So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI

 Emmanuel

 Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit :
  Hi,
 
  Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung,
 Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek?
 
  Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders,
 nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to bring
 the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have
 it.[1, 2]
 
  Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate
 with this?
 
  Any comments?
 
  Best regards,
 
- Teemu
 
  [1] http://www.internet.org
  [2]
 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html

 --
 Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline  more
 * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
 * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,

All we need to do is what we already do: make our content available for
free. When we are really in their face that we bring neutral information to
everyone, everywhere how and why will they deny us?

Thanks,
  GerardM


On 23 August 2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa kwad...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Emmanuel,

 I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now.
 Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
 internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be
 involved?

 --Kul


 On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org
 wrote:

  I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this
  project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the
  Internet.
 
  More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of
  their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried
  to do 15 years ago.
 
  ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this
  alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to
  the Internet.
 
  So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks.
 
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI
 
  Emmanuel
 
  Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit :
   Hi,
  
   Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung,
  Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek?
  
   Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders,
  nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to
 bring
  the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t
 have
  it.[1, 2]
  
   Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate
  with this?
  
   Any comments?
  
   Best regards,
  
 - Teemu
  
   [1] http://www.internet.org
   [2]
 
 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html
 
  --
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  * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
  * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
  * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Jens Best
I would suggest to keep distance to this wannabe-NGO which more or less
only exists to serve the interests of commercial players which mostly do *
not* stand for a free and open web.

internet.org is nothing what will serve the ideas and ideals of an internet
as it is represented also by Wikimedia. Don't believe the hype.

Best regards

Jens Best


2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com

 Hoi,

 All we need to do is what we already do: make our content available for
 free. When we are really in their face that we bring neutral information to
 everyone, everywhere how and why will they deny us?

 Thanks,
   GerardM


 On 23 August 2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa kwad...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  Emmanuel,
 
  I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now.
  Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
  internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be
  involved?
 
  --Kul
 
 
  On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org
  wrote:
 
   I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this
   project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to
 the
   Internet.
  
   More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of
   their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried
   to do 15 years ago.
  
   ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this
   alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access
 to
   the Internet.
  
   So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks.
  
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI
  
   Emmanuel
  
   Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit :
Hi,
   
Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook,
 Samsung,
   Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek?
   
Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders,
   nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to
  bring
   the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t
  have
   it.[1, 2]
   
Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to
 collaborate
   with this?
   
Any comments?
   
Best regards,
   
  - Teemu
   
[1] http://www.internet.org
[2]
  
 
 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html
  
   --
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   * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
   * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
   * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
  
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web: http://www.wikimedia.de
mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread David Gerard
On 23 August 2013 10:28, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 I would suggest to keep distance to this wannabe-NGO which more or less
 only exists to serve the interests of commercial players which mostly do *
 not* stand for a free and open web.
 internet.org is nothing what will serve the ideas and ideals of an internet
 as it is represented also by Wikimedia. Don't believe the hype.


I concur. Dig this:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/13/08/what-internetorgs-stirring-video-cut-from-the-kennedy-speech-it-quotes/278896/

Whatever these people are doing doesn't actually appear to be much to
do with what we're doing.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Emmanuel Engelhart
Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
 I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now.
 Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
 internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be
 involved?

If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins
such a dishonest project.

If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt
their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma.
A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move)
and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet
(strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done
it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such
situations ;)

If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then
this is really a dream we should be part of!

But, this is all about speculations...

I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears.
But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects.
That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they
will make the next moves.

Emmanuel
-- 
Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline  more
* Web: http://www.kiwix.org
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Jens Best
Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they
don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually,
Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next
moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom
they really cooperate.

It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between
Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of
freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they
use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do.

Jens

2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org

 Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
  I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now.
  Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
  internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be
  involved?

 If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins
 such a dishonest project.

 If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt
 their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma.
 A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move)
 and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet
 (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done
 it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such
 situations ;)

 If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then
 this is really a dream we should be part of!

 But, this is all about speculations...

 I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears.
 But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects.
 That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they
 will make the next moves.

 Emmanuel
 --
 Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline  more
 * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
 * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
 * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen
by many more people, they do us a service.

In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of all
about getting the knowledge out there.
Thanks,
  GerardM


On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they
 don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually,
 Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next
 moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom
 they really cooperate.

 It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between
 Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of
 freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they
 use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do.

 Jens

 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org

  Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
   I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now.
   Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
   internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be
   involved?
 
  If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins
  such a dishonest project.
 
  If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt
  their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma.
  A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move)
  and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet
  (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done
  it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such
  situations ;)
 
  If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then
  this is really a dream we should be part of!
 
  But, this is all about speculations...
 
  I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears.
  But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects.
  That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they
  will make the next moves.
 
  Emmanuel
  --
  Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline  more
  * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
  * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
  * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
 
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 --
 --
 Jens Best
 Präsidium
 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 web: http://www.wikimedia.de
 mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
 Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
 anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
 Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?

2013-08-23 Thread Emilio J . Rodríguez-Posada
Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data.


2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com

 Hoi,
 But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen
 by many more people, they do us a service.

 In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of all
 about getting the knowledge out there.
 Thanks,
   GerardM


 On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote:

  Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they
  don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So,
 actually,
  Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next
  moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with
 whom
  they really cooperate.
 
  It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between
  Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of
  freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because
 they
  use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do.
 
  Jens
 
  2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org
 
   Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit :
I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for
 now.
Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would
internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to
 be
involved?
  
   If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement
 joins
   such a dishonest project.
  
   If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt
   their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a
 dilemma.
   A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical
 move)
   and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet
   (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done
   it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such
   situations ;)
  
   If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet...
 then
   this is really a dream we should be part of!
  
   But, this is all about speculations...
  
   I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my
 hears.
   But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects.
   That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they
   will make the next moves.
  
   Emmanuel
   --
   Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline  more
   * Web: http://www.kiwix.org
   * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
   * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication
  
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  --
  --
  Jens Best
  Präsidium
  Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
  web: http://www.wikimedia.de
  mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
  Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
  Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
  anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
  Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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