On 7/29/13 10:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali wrote:
I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge
that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption.
Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was draf
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 07/29/2013 11:10 PM, Risker wrote:
>> which are used daily on hundreds of pages,
>> and they serve a very important function.
>
> Yeah, but they are duct tape over weaknesses/flaws in wikimarkup, not a
> valuable feature.
Templates s
On 30 July 2013 08:02, David Gerard wrote:
> On 30 July 2013 15:44, Ziko van Dijk wrote:
>
> > It's interesting how an essentially social question (being welcoming to
> new
> > people by a Visual editor) turns quickly into a debate on software.
>
> .nl has yet to experience the software in quest
On 30 July 2013 15:44, Ziko van Dijk wrote:
> It's interesting how an essentially social question (being welcoming to new
> people by a Visual editor) turns quickly into a debate on software.
.nl has yet to experience the software in question, and the social
issues surrounding it ...
- d.
__
It's interesting how an essentially social question (being welcoming to new
people by a Visual editor) turns quickly into a debate on software.
Ziko
Ziko van Dijk
voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
deputy ch
On 30 July 2013 04:36, Martijn Hoekstra wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:01 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>
> > On 30 July 2013 09:06, Martijn Hoekstra
> wrote:
> >
> > > 6. Announce a date from where on saving a page with a transcluded
> legacy
> > > template will be blocked. Expect public outcry.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:01 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 30 July 2013 09:06, Martijn Hoekstra wrote:
>
> > 6. Announce a date from where on saving a page with a transcluded legacy
> > template will be blocked. Expect public outcry.
> > An important consideration that all developers must keep in
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Robert Rohde wrote:
> When discussing issues like this. One should keep in mind that we
> don't really want to be in the business of "solving" hard problems
> simply by pushing the difficulties onto other people. Wikitext has
> some characteristics that make pa
On 30 July 2013 09:06, Martijn Hoekstra wrote:
> 6. Announce a date from where on saving a page with a transcluded legacy
> template will be blocked. Expect public outcry.
> An important consideration that all developers must keep in mind is that
> though the current syntax is quite horrible, it
When discussing issues like this. One should keep in mind that we
don't really want to be in the business of "solving" hard problems
simply by pushing the difficulties onto other people. Wikitext has
some characteristics that make parsing it hard (some might say
ridiculous). Changing wikitext wi
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Robert Rohde wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Martijn Hoekstra
> wrote:
>
> > 4. Block the creation of new templates with deprecated syntax. Also block
> > saving templates that were free of deprecated syntax would an edit
> > introduce deprecated synt
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Martijn Hoekstra
wrote:
> 4. Block the creation of new templates with deprecated syntax. Also block
> saving templates that were free of deprecated syntax would an edit
> introduce deprecated syntax.
Strictly speaking this is impossible. While there are some co
On Jul 29, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Martijn Hoekstra
wrote:
>
> I can dream up horrors you can't even imagine. Consider a template
> consisting if two single quotes. For a demonstration, see
> http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Martijn_Hoekstra/Lovecraftian_horror2
Iä! Iä! Cthulhu Fhtagn!
rmally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> - Original Message - From: "Martijn Hoekstra" <
> martijnhoeks...@gmail.com>
> To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
>
> >
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Wi
On Jul 30, 2013 4:58 AM, "Marc A. Pelletier" wrote:
>
> On 07/29/2013 10:02 PM, Rschen7754 wrote:
> > If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the
English Wikipedia
>
> Oh, it *would* if the syntax was just disabled outright!
>
> Now, if it were me that was in charge of fixi
Beside being way more effort than it is worth, what is particularly
Lovecraftian about that?
Cheers,
Peter
- Original Message -
From: "Martijn Hoekstra"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrif
On 30 July 2013 07:39, Martijn Hoekstra wrote:
> I can dream up horrors you can't even imagine. Consider a template
> consisting if two single quotes. For a demonstration, see
> http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Martijn_Hoekstra/Lovecraftian_horror2
D-:
That's like a story parents tell VE deve
On Jul 30, 2013 3:49 AM, "Marc A. Pelletier" wrote:
>
> On 07/29/2013 07:00 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> > Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be
> > deprecated?
>
> I'm not privy to the architecture decisions, but I'm pretty sure that
> the absolute worst monstrosity is t
But is subst:ing the code and then deleting the template the right solution for
a template that is transcluded over 170,000 times?
Overall, I find solutions to such problems that require extensive volunteer
manpower to implement and remove functionality from the editor to be quite
problematic.
Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
>On 07/29/2013 03:30 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote:
>> On German Wikipedia, our dear Superbass has contributed a short opinion
>> piece on the principal resistance against the Visual Editor. I think
>>that it should be withhold from you, and I hope that my translation
>>transfers
On 29 July 2013 23:18, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 07/29/2013 11:10 PM, Risker wrote:
> > which are used daily on hundreds of pages,
> > and they serve a very important function.
>
> Yeah, but they are duct tape over weaknesses/flaws in wikimarkup, not a
> valuable feature. This revolves back
On 07/29/2013 11:10 PM, Risker wrote:
> which are used daily on hundreds of pages,
> and they serve a very important function.
Yeah, but they are duct tape over weaknesses/flaws in wikimarkup, not a
valuable feature. This revolves back to the difficulty in trying to
pretend a talk page in wikimar
Well, all I know is that we have a couple million instances of {{hat}} and
{{hab}} unbalanced templates, which are used daily on hundreds of pages,
and they serve a very important function.
Risker
On 29 July 2013 22:58, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 07/29/2013 10:02 PM, Rschen7754 wrote:
> > I
On 07/29/2013 10:02 PM, Rschen7754 wrote:
> If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the English
> Wikipedia
Oh, it *would* if the syntax was just disabled outright!
Now, if it were me that was in charge of fixing wiki markup, this is
what I would do:
(a) require that syn
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:00 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be
> deprecated?
We don't know yet. We try to support almost everything. In addition to
the unbalanced templates that Marc mentions, there are templates that
literally insert ind
If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the English
Wikipedia, with templates like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:S-start
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:S-end (170,303 transclusions).
Thanks,
Rschen7754
rschen7754.w...@gmail.com
On Jul 29, 2013, at
On 07/29/2013 07:00 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be
> deprecated?
I'm not privy to the architecture decisions, but I'm pretty sure that
the absolute worst monstrosity is the possibility of opening markup in a
(possibly deeply recursive o
On 29 July 2013 23:41, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> Nostalgia for the "good old days" of hand-spun wikitables with baroque
> hacked together syntax notwithstanding.
MediaWiki wikitext should indeed be set on fire and put in a bin and
fired into the sun, with any other horrible and termina fates w
On 07/29/2013 06:00 PM, Michael Snow wrote:
> achieving the sum of all human knowledge requires all humans to
> collaborate in it
+1
This is particularly important as the quality of coverage decreases
sharply as you stray further from the interests that coincide with the
profile of current editor
On 7/29/2013 2:44 PM, Jan Ainali wrote:
2013/7/29 Michael Snow
On 7/29/2013 1:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali
wrote:
I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge
that need be availible to every human being, but the consumpti
2013/7/29 Michael Snow
> On 7/29/2013 1:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge
>>> that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption.
>>>
>> Actually, ha
On 7/29/2013 1:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote:
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali wrote:
I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge
that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption.
Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was draf
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali wrote:
> I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge
> that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption.
Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was drafted at
the October 2006 Board retreat in
Don't worry, Marc, Superbass uses irony and is pro VE.
Ziko
Ziko van Dijk
voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council
Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
Postbus 167
350
2013/7/29 Marc A. Pelletier
>
> Because if it's the latter, I'm really worried about the health of a
> community that would actively bemoan greater democratization of a
> project whose entire /raison d'etre/ was the democratization of knowledge.
>
I have not read the vision statement as it is th
On 07/29/2013 03:30 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote:
> On German Wikipedia, our dear Superbass has contributed a short opinion
> piece on the principal resistance against the Visual Editor. I think that
> it should be withhold from you, and I hope that my translation transfers
> its wit.
My poor German su
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