Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Josh Luthman]

Again, I want to apologize for the pissing contest I created here.

While I do appreciate the input I highly disagree with some of the language
and attitude here.  Can we please stop this thread?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 12:12 AM,  wrote:

> Travis... I don't "bet" money on non-productive things.   IE, I don't
> gamble.   It's a moral thing.
>
> But, here's why I am saying you're not going to be able to...
>
> 1.  Over the last 2 decades, industrial finance has been mostly done by
> direct sales of bonds on the open market.This has fallen almost 90
> percent in the last 6 months.
>
> 2.  Larger and institutional borrowers have been either delaying
> investments, or paying higher rates to float commercial paper.   Recent
> treasury rates have shown that insitutional investors are willing to pull
> money from any business venture and buy bonds instead, at LESS THAN 1% rate
> of return.
>
> 3.  This has caused the lenders for larger institutions to slow lending.
>
> 4.  This is going to start cannibalizing the smaller institution's
> remaining
> capital, as large companies borrow from, or lease from ever smaller
> entities, since they're the only ones with any available capital right now.
>
> Smaller banks and regional banks are still moderately healthy, but with
> regulators suddenly breathing down their necks, they're suddenly "risk
> averse", to try to keep institutional investors from pulling money out and
> having the regulators start blasting holes in thier portfolios of paper
> they
> hold as assets.   Rules are, that what that paper can be sold for on the
> open market, is the value it must be valued at.
>
> A grade paper sells at a steep discount.   B sells at a severe discount.
> C
> or less is is now sold at less than 10% of it's face value.   So, even the
> solvent banks are having to start limiting exposure to anything that even
> faintly looks "risky".
>
> So, you're likely not dealing with any of those.  You're likely using a
> company that was capitalized with cash of investors a number of years ago,
> owns its own portfolio of paper, and has relatively limited debt.   Yes,
> they're calling and saying "we have money to lend".  And they do.  But it
> is
> quite limited. Once the larger borrowers arrive in that market, it will be
> sucked up faster than feathers in a hurricane.
>
> Due o the shorter term nature of their lending or financing, you'll see a
> small trickle continue.
>
> However, it is also true that the credit standards for even those have run
> upwards a lot, cutting off smaller and non-established prospective
> customers
> like me and most WISP's.   They are raising the finacial requirements of
> who
> they finance a lot.   That's going on considerably and has been for some
> time.
>
> Will your lender or leasing co be able to do anything for you in 6 months?
> I would not bet the company on it.   I absolutely would NOT depend on it
> for
> the next 18 months.   Re-write your business plan.  Have a contingency plan
> in place.   Have one for no credit being available.  That's gone from "not
> thinkable" to "likely" in just 6 months.
>
> That's the wiser "bet", by a million times.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Johnson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
> > We have been charging the same for internet service for almost 5
> years
> > and just two days ago, we got double the new sign-ups on a single day of
> > what we can do for installs. Business is booming in our area and our
> > industry. Just looking at our 2008 financials, our gross revenues are up
> > 15.2% and our Net Profit is up 10.3%.
> >
> > And I'll take the bet on being able to lease or finance equipment in 6
> > months. How much shall we throw on the table? I have lease companies
> > calling me daily wanting to give me money... seriously... I get 3-4 calls
> > PER WEEK from all different leasing companies. They all have money and
> > want "credit worthy" companies to use it, because that's how they make
> > money.
> >
> > So again, how much shall we bet on this? :)
> >
> > Travis
> > Microserv
> >
> > rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Travis Johnson" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
> >
> >
> >  You can not grow in large scales without financing... and I don't
> > understand why people are against it. Our last equipment lease was under
> > 10% interest, no personal guarantees, no money up front. We were able to
> > purchase a large quantity of CPE units (thus saving us about 2

Re: [WISPA] Business strategy for an uncertain future...

[eje]

Just think about it. What will people do that can not afford the movies, cool 
electronics and gadgets or go out eat nice dinners etc do at night or during 
the day (assuming unemployed). 
Sit home watch TV and surf internet. They COULD cancel their cabel/sat 
connection if they have a good high speed connection. So in most if not all 
household internet will probably be the last "luxury" to go. Most will probably 
cancel their home phone line before they cancel their internet connection. 

Remember the article I posted the link to a couple week ago? 46% of the 
surveyed women would rather go without sex for 2 weeks then be without internet 
(only 30% of the men would do the same. Damn perverts anyway don't they know 
they can get that online ;) )

So as a equipment provider of WISP equipment we feel fairly comfortable. As a 
small town ISP feel very comfortable. We had 0 customer loss in the last 4 
months yet unemployment jumped almost 4 points during the same town (one larger 
construction company closed their doors that provided auto parts to Detroit 
which was one of the biggest single employers in the area).  

Actually gain a few that I know for sure become unemployed some which started 
through layoff compensation money some online education so they had to get high 
speed where they before still only had dial up. 

Just be careful not to let people slide on their payments. Internet service is 
nothing you can take back so they should pay up front that way when they don't 
pay you can shut off service and not loose any service fees. Now if they 
supposed to do a contract over a period of time you might had to take them to 
court to get the remaining what they would owe you under their contract with 
you. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: George Rogato 

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:05:41 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Business strategy for an uncertain future...




If I was in the business of selling something frivilous, I would be 
worried.

This is internet access. People need Internet Access just like they need 
electricity. You could live with out it but who would want to.
Unless you have hit the top of your saturation, then it's doubtful 
you'll be losing subscribers. And if you offer a competitively priced 
product, you should, because of the recession, find a lot of new 
customers looking to change to a lower priced service when their low 
priced introductory deals run out.

Especially if you have a Voip / Intenet Access bundle to offer.

So borrow away, it's not going to hurt you.

As for us, we don't really borrow, or want to carry much debt. We buy 
our equipment out of cash flow and are happy to be clear by the third 
month. Only downside is I don't get the qty discount that Travis pointed 
out with his large purchases.









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Re: [WISPA] Business strategy for an uncertain future...

[reader]

That's pretty much where I am too.

I'm working on making sure I can survive even if I have to cut my rates by 
up to 65%.

Part of that is now about changing providers, adding a 2nd, so if one goes 
away I'm not sunk, and a small price increase, and changing my billing and 
credit process.   I now bill in arrears for services.  I'm going to move 
that closer to "bill in real time" and going to automated payments.   And 
considerable penalty for not having automated payments.

I'm even thinking about adding a second line of unrelated services, so I"m 
not entirely dependent on internet.





- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Business strategy for an uncertain future...


>
>
> If I was in the business of selling something frivilous, I would be
> worried.
>
> This is internet access. People need Internet Access just like they need
> electricity. You could live with out it but who would want to.
> Unless you have hit the top of your saturation, then it's doubtful
> you'll be losing subscribers. And if you offer a competitively priced
> product, you should, because of the recession, find a lot of new
> customers looking to change to a lower priced service when their low
> priced introductory deals run out.
>
> Especially if you have a Voip / Intenet Access bundle to offer.
>
> So borrow away, it's not going to hurt you.
>
> As for us, we don't really borrow, or want to carry much debt. We buy
> our equipment out of cash flow and are happy to be clear by the third
> month. Only downside is I don't get the qty discount that Travis pointed
> out with his large purchases.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[reader]

Travis... I don't "bet" money on non-productive things.   IE, I don't 
gamble.   It's a moral thing.

But, here's why I am saying you're not going to be able to...

1.  Over the last 2 decades, industrial finance has been mostly done by 
direct sales of bonds on the open market.This has fallen almost 90 
percent in the last 6 months.

2.  Larger and institutional borrowers have been either delaying 
investments, or paying higher rates to float commercial paper.   Recent 
treasury rates have shown that insitutional investors are willing to pull 
money from any business venture and buy bonds instead, at LESS THAN 1% rate 
of return.

3.  This has caused the lenders for larger institutions to slow lending.

4.  This is going to start cannibalizing the smaller institution's remaining 
capital, as large companies borrow from, or lease from ever smaller 
entities, since they're the only ones with any available capital right now.

Smaller banks and regional banks are still moderately healthy, but with 
regulators suddenly breathing down their necks, they're suddenly "risk 
averse", to try to keep institutional investors from pulling money out and 
having the regulators start blasting holes in thier portfolios of paper they 
hold as assets.   Rules are, that what that paper can be sold for on the 
open market, is the value it must be valued at.

A grade paper sells at a steep discount.   B sells at a severe discount.   C 
or less is is now sold at less than 10% of it's face value.   So, even the 
solvent banks are having to start limiting exposure to anything that even 
faintly looks "risky".

So, you're likely not dealing with any of those.  You're likely using a 
company that was capitalized with cash of investors a number of years ago, 
owns its own portfolio of paper, and has relatively limited debt.   Yes, 
they're calling and saying "we have money to lend".  And they do.  But it is 
quite limited. Once the larger borrowers arrive in that market, it will be 
sucked up faster than feathers in a hurricane.

Due o the shorter term nature of their lending or financing, you'll see a 
small trickle continue.

However, it is also true that the credit standards for even those have run 
upwards a lot, cutting off smaller and non-established prospective customers 
like me and most WISP's.   They are raising the finacial requirements of who 
they finance a lot.   That's going on considerably and has been for some 
time.

Will your lender or leasing co be able to do anything for you in 6 months? 
I would not bet the company on it.   I absolutely would NOT depend on it for 
the next 18 months.   Re-write your business plan.  Have a contingency plan 
in place.   Have one for no credit being available.  That's gone from "not 
thinkable" to "likely" in just 6 months.

That's the wiser "bet", by a million times.








- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


> We have been charging the same for internet service for almost 5 years 
> and just two days ago, we got double the new sign-ups on a single day of 
> what we can do for installs. Business is booming in our area and our 
> industry. Just looking at our 2008 financials, our gross revenues are up 
> 15.2% and our Net Profit is up 10.3%.
>
> And I'll take the bet on being able to lease or finance equipment in 6 
> months. How much shall we throw on the table? I have lease companies 
> calling me daily wanting to give me money... seriously... I get 3-4 calls 
> PER WEEK from all different leasing companies. They all have money and 
> want "credit worthy" companies to use it, because that's how they make 
> money.
>
> So again, how much shall we bet on this? :)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Travis Johnson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
>  You can not grow in large scales without financing... and I don't
> understand why people are against it. Our last equipment lease was under
> 10% interest, no personal guarantees, no money up front. We were able to
> purchase a large quantity of CPE units (thus saving us about 20% off the
> single unit price). So, in the end, it actually saves money and the "cost"
> of installing a new customer is $0 to you, because the $99 installation
> fee pays for the time, materials, etc.
>
> Example:
> single CPE = $190 each
> 460 CPE = $155 each
>
> 36 month lease on $71,300 = $2,300 per month x 36 months = $82,800 / 460
> units = $180 each
>
> But in 36 months, you might be able to charge no more than 10 dollars /
> month per customer.   That's the magic of deflation - which is already
> occurring.
>
>  And it costs you $5 per month for 36 months for the equipm

Re: [WISPA] Business strategy for an uncertain future...

[George Rogato]

If I was in the business of selling something frivilous, I would be 
worried.

This is internet access. People need Internet Access just like they need 
electricity. You could live with out it but who would want to.
Unless you have hit the top of your saturation, then it's doubtful 
you'll be losing subscribers. And if you offer a competitively priced 
product, you should, because of the recession, find a lot of new 
customers looking to change to a lower priced service when their low 
priced introductory deals run out.

Especially if you have a Voip / Intenet Access bundle to offer.

So borrow away, it's not going to hurt you.

As for us, we don't really borrow, or want to carry much debt. We buy 
our equipment out of cash flow and are happy to be clear by the third 
month. Only downside is I don't get the qty discount that Travis pointed 
out with his large purchases.









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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Travis Johnson]

We have been charging the same for internet service for almost 5
years and just two days ago, we got double the new sign-ups on a
single day of what we can do for installs. Business is booming in our
area and our industry. Just looking at our 2008 financials, our gross
revenues are up 15.2% and our Net Profit is up 10.3%. 

And I'll take the bet on being able to lease or finance equipment in 6
months. How much shall we throw on the table? I have lease companies
calling me daily wanting to give me money... seriously... I get 3-4
calls PER WEEK from all different leasing companies. They all have
money and want "credit worthy" companies to use it, because that's how
they make money.

So again, how much shall we bet on this? :)

Travis
Microserv

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  


- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


  
  
You can not grow in large scales without financing... and I don't 
understand why people are against it. Our last equipment lease was under 
10% interest, no personal guarantees, no money up front. We were able to 
purchase a large quantity of CPE units (thus saving us about 20% off the 
single unit price). So, in the end, it actually saves money and the "cost" 
of installing a new customer is $0 to you, because the $99 installation 
fee pays for the time, materials, etc.

Example:
single CPE = $190 each
460 CPE = $155 each

36 month lease on $71,300 = $2,300 per month x 36 months = $82,800 / 460 
units = $180 each

  
  
But in 36 months, you might be able to charge no more than 10 dollars / 
month per customer.   That's the magic of deflation - which is already 
occurring.

  
  
And it costs you $5 per month for 36 months for the equipment on that 
customer... that's pretty cheap even if you only charge $29 per month. :)

  
  
Whatever happens in the future...  It will NOT be the same as today. 
Inflation or deflation will happen.   No way around it.   Congress has 
already taken on more debt than can be serviced.Neither scenario will 
let you survive being in debt.

Besides, don't expect to be able to lease equipment at any rate or terms 
within 6 months.


  
  
Travis
Microserv


  
  



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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[reader]

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


> You can not grow in large scales without financing... and I don't 
> understand why people are against it. Our last equipment lease was under 
> 10% interest, no personal guarantees, no money up front. We were able to 
> purchase a large quantity of CPE units (thus saving us about 20% off the 
> single unit price). So, in the end, it actually saves money and the "cost" 
> of installing a new customer is $0 to you, because the $99 installation 
> fee pays for the time, materials, etc.
>
> Example:
> single CPE = $190 each
> 460 CPE = $155 each
>
> 36 month lease on $71,300 = $2,300 per month x 36 months = $82,800 / 460 
> units = $180 each

But in 36 months, you might be able to charge no more than 10 dollars / 
month per customer.   That's the magic of deflation - which is already 
occurring.

>
> And it costs you $5 per month for 36 months for the equipment on that 
> customer... that's pretty cheap even if you only charge $29 per month. :)

Whatever happens in the future...  It will NOT be the same as today. 
Inflation or deflation will happen.   No way around it.   Congress has 
already taken on more debt than can be serviced.Neither scenario will 
let you survive being in debt.

Besides, don't expect to be able to lease equipment at any rate or terms 
within 6 months.


>
> Travis
> Microserv
>




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[WISPA] Business strategy for an uncertain future...

[reader]

As I mentioned in my last post, I am now not willing to finance anything 
substantial for any period of time beyond a few months.

While I'm no economics professor, nor claim any great knowledge, it appears 
that the people who do make those claims are as befuddled as things can get. 
Each has scenarios and predictions that vary wildly...  But every one of 
them acknowledges we've got a problem... or two or three...

All we have to go on, is the last great depression, and it's origins are not 
the same as what happened now, but the effects are somewhat similar.

In less than a year, the Treasury, Congress, and agencies have spent, 
assumed liability for, or gauranteed nearly 10 trillion dollars of 
additional liabilities.

If this were your business, it would be the same as having spent, borrowed, 
or assuemd liability for debts 3 times your annual revenues in just 90 days, 
while you were running in the red, and already owed 3 times your annual 
revenues.   The implications of this are obvious...  Math doesn't lie. 
This money has to come from somewhere to cover these liabilities.

In under 90 days, the federal treasury has floated a trillion dollars in 
bonds.  One TRILLION dollars was taken out of circulation and turned into 
federal paper.   Pundits say that they expect the new administration to 
likewise use anywhere from 1 to 5 more TRILLION dollars of debt to fund its 
spending and 'bailout' plans.   Every dollar now spent is a dollar removed 
from economic circulation or investment.

Would this matter too much?   Maybe not if we had a sound financial sector. 
But we do not.  I haunt a number of small business, business credit, and 
financial news forums around the country, and they all agree... 
Institutional credit is drying up faster than the remains of an August 
afternoon snowball fight in Yuma, AZ.People with excellent personal and 
spotless business credit are seeing their credit cards, credit lines, etc, 
reduced, cancelled, even closed without warning.   If you have a flaw in 
anyhthing, it's just a matter of time before the reviewers get to you and 
cut you off completely.

If your business relies on using short term credit in the form of a card to 
provide cash flow between purchase and install / income, you could find 
yourself suddenly without it, without warning, as your credit provider cuts 
you off... perhaps simply because they do not have any capital.  And this is 
happening whether the institution is international or a local credit union. 
Nobody is immune.

Now, let's get into the possible futures...

If the Obama economic policies continue the Clinton and Bush ones, of 
extended borrowing and spending to keep things "moving", ie, no signficant 
change ( this has remained mostly unchanged since around 98), we'll 
eventually see the influx of cash to buy federal paper dry up, as people 
lose faith in the federal treasury like they did with Bear Stearns. 
Further, the continued consumption of all available investment cash by the 
federal government will deepen/worsen/prolong the business downturn, as 
financing anything becomes all but impossible.This scenario is likely to 
see an extended period of deflation followed by...  unknown... Likely a 
massive deflation as the inevitable adjustments are allowed to arrive or 
inflation spike.

A hugely unlikely possibility would be for Congress to decide to act as any 
responsible party would... Balance its books, stop spending on anything but 
the absolute necessities, and then to try to spur industrial growth with tax 
holidays and total restructuring of the tax and regulatory system... 
Expect a huge flurry of business failures, followed by a lot of 
restructuring and the disapperance of most that do not produce things of 
"value".Investors again will start investing in those things likely to 
succeed and we'll see a long period of rocky rebuilding and success/failure 
cycles.   This is the shortest path, with the most up front pain, but the 
best outcome long term.

Another unlikely scenario would be "Printing money".   Giving up on the idea 
of trying to prime the economy with debt, we print currency, hoping to head 
off deflation, but not so bad we spark 'currency collapse inflation'.   The 
problem is, nobody has a clue where that point is.  Nobody.

If the last scenario follows the first...   It's a nightmare nobody wants, 
but is the most likely.   It's the path of least resistance for politicians, 
who are addicted to buying votes and spending money, promising to fix stuff, 
if they just get "more".   It is their control and attempts to control the 
economy and busienss that created this crisis in the first place.  More of 
the same is guaranteed to worsen, not improve, things.

How do deal with it?Don't be in debt.   Don't make long term commitments 
that involve largish sums of money.Deflation could easily reduce your 
bills AND your income by 50 to 80%.But your loans, leases, etc, don't 
change.   You w

Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[Josh Luthman]

I was going to say that but I don't know how the CPU compares, not that it
is a major difference.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net <
dmburg...@linktechs.net> wrote:

> Might be simpler to say, a Routerboard 411, with an integrated radio
> card that does 2.4 only.  Fully FCC certified.
>
> --
> * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
> 314-735-0270
> http://www.linktechs.net 
>
> */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
> /*
>
>
>
> John Scrivner wrote:
> > What is the "crossroads" radio platform? I have never heard of it. Any
> link
> > to information about it is appreciated.
> > Thank you,
> > John Scrivner
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Josh Luthman
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)
> >>
> >> The crossroads is FCC certified.
> >>
> >> On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>> Jerry Richardson
> >>> airCloud Communications
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >>> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
> >>> To: WISPA General List
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
> >>>
> >>> Mikrotik! :)
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
> >>> Member - wispa.org  Link Technologies, Inc --
> >>> Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
> >>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
> >>> /*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Alan Long wrote:
> >>>
>  I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be
> 
> >>> able
> >>>
>  to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
>  work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.
> 
> >>> Trying
> >>>
>  to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Alan Long
>  Director of Network Operations
> 
>  Aerowire
> 
> 
> 
> >>> <
> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=
> >>> Aubu
> >>>
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
>  Auburn, AL 36830
> 
> 
>    alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 
> 
>  tel:
>  mobile:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> <
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=33427599
> >>> 98&E
> >>>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> 
> 
> 
> >>> <
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3360
> >>> 92&E
> >>>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> <
> https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_jo
> >>> in&i
> >>>
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> 
>   
> 
> >>> Want a
> >>>
>  signature like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>>
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> 
> >>>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>  http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> 
> >>>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
>  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
>  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>> 
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> 
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>>
> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net]

Might be simpler to say, a Routerboard 411, with an integrated radio 
card that does 2.4 only.  Fully FCC certified. 

--
* Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
314-735-0270
http://www.linktechs.net 

*/ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training 
/*



John Scrivner wrote:
> What is the "crossroads" radio platform? I have never heard of it. Any link
> to information about it is appreciated.
> Thank you,
> John Scrivner
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)
>>
>> The crossroads is FCC certified.
>>
>> On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  wrote:
>> 
>>> Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> airCloud Communications
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
>>>
>>> Mikrotik! :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
>>> Member - wispa.org  Link Technologies, Inc --
>>> Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> 
>>>
>>> */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
>>> /*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan Long wrote:
>>>   
 I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be
 
>>> able
>>>   
 to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
 work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.
 
>>> Trying
>>>   
 to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.







  







 Alan Long
 Director of Network Operations

 Aerowire


 
>>> >> Aubu
>>>   
 rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
 Auburn, AL 36830


   alan.l...@aerowire.net


 tel:
 mobile:



 
>>> >> 98&E
>>>   
 mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998


 
>>> >> 92&E
>>>   
 mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092







 
>>> >> in&i
>>>   
 nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info

  
 
>>> Want a
>>>   
 signature like this?






 
>>> 
>>>   


 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> Those w

Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Mike Hammett]

I can get to downtown Chicago in one wireless hop and receive TV signals 
from additional markets, yet I have at least 14 completely clear channels 
and an additional 4 that can be used in significant parts of my coverage 
area.  That's 108 MHz of space, or over 2 GB/s of throughput without any 
frequency reuse.  That's also including an exclusion zone around Chicago for 
certain channels.

I don't see this as a tool to go great distances, but to have a solid 
coverage area.   The 100' limit to antenna height really puts a dent as to 
how far you can go.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:24 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

> And provided you live somewhere like Nevada that would have 8 channels
> available.
> Remember Whitespace, isn't realisitic for tight beam PTP.
> The last thing we want is vendors making gear that bonds 8 channels.
> All it takes is one of those APs every 30 miles, to KILL ALL competition 
> in
> that area.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
>> Whitespaces sure will allow that, given the vendors produce gear that
>> bonds
>> multiple channels.  Bond 4 channels together and you've got 80 megs of
>> throughput.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Tom DeReggi" 
>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:13 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>
>>> Yeah, but the secret to getting more spectrum is not asking for it, nor
>>> proving need. The secret is identifying spectrum that could be 
>>> available,
>>> that someone else doesn't already have claim to.
>>>
>>> Whitespace is going to be awesome for you west-coast/central folk, but
>>> that
>>> still isn't going to yield 5-10mbps to subs.
>>>
>>> The biggest risk in upcomming broadband policy is that it will be 
>>> written
>>> to
>>> incourage only "fiber" deployment.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>>
>>>
 Let us hope that with the push for more broadband accessibility we get
 more
 spectrum!!!

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
 --- Henry Spencer


 On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM, chris cooper
 wrote:

>
> And your chainsaws- going to need to cut some mighty big holes in the
> air to fit all the needed spectrum into
>
> Chris
>
> That article states they want to define "broadband" as 5Mbps, and some
> folks suggest 10Mbps. Get your forklifts ready!
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG.
 Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
 12/

Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[Josh Luthman]

First table here gives you a bit more information:

http://routerboard.com/comparison.html

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Blair Davis  wrote:

>  http://www.routerboard.com/pdf/crossroads_brochure.pdf
>
>
> John Scrivner wrote:
>
> What is the "crossroads" radio platform? I have never heard of it. Any link
> to information about it is appreciated.
> Thank you,
> John Scrivner
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>  Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)
>
> The crossroads is FCC certified.
>
> On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  
>  wrote:
>
>
>  Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?
>
>
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
> ] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
>
> Mikrotik! :)
>
> --
> * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
> Member - wispa.org   Link 
> Technologies, Inc --
> Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: 
> http://www.linktechs.net 
> 
>
> */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line 
> Training 
> /*
>
>
>
> Alan Long wrote:
>
>
>  I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be
>
>
>  able
>
>
>  to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
> work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.
>
>
>  Trying
>
>
>  to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
>
> Aerowire
>
>
>
>
>   Aubu
>
>
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
>
>
>    
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>
>
> tel:
> mobile:
>
>
>
>
>
>   98&E
>
>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>
>
>
>
>   92&E
>
>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   in&i
>
>
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>
>  
>
>
>  Want a
>
>
>  signature like this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>   
> 
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>  
> 
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>  
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>--
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[Blair Davis]

http://www.routerboard.com/pdf/crossroads_brochure.pdf

John Scrivner wrote:

  What is the "crossroads" radio platform? I have never heard of it. Any link
to information about it is appreciated.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

  
  
Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)

The crossroads is FCC certified.

On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  wrote:


  Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?




__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

Mikrotik! :)

--
* Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
Member - wispa.org  Link Technologies, Inc --
Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net


*/ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
/*



Alan Long wrote:
  
  
I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be

  
  able
  
  
to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.

  
  Trying
  
  
to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.







 







Alan Long
Director of Network Operations

Aerowire



  
   687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830


  alan.l...@aerowire.net


tel:
mobile:




  
  
98&E
  
  
mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998



  
  
92&E
  
  
mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092








  
  
in&i
  
  
nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info

 <=en>

  
  Want a
  
  
signature like this?







  
  
  
  




  
  

  
  
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


  
  

  
  
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

  
  


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

  


--
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


  
  


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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.w

Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[Eje Gustafsson]

http://store.wisp-router.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=RBCRD&eq=&Tp=

MikroTik's "LiteStation" model. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

What is the "crossroads" radio platform? I have never heard of it. Any link
to information about it is appreciated.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)
>
> The crossroads is FCC certified.
>
> On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  wrote:
> > Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Jerry Richardson
> > airCloud Communications
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
> >
> > Mikrotik! :)
> >
> > --
> > * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
> > Member - wispa.org  Link Technologies, Inc --
> > Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
> > *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> > 
> >
> > */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
> > /*
> >
> >
> >
> > Alan Long wrote:
> >> I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be
> > able
> >> to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
> >> work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.
> > Trying
> >> to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Alan Long
> >> Director of Network Operations
> >>
> >> Aerowire
> >>
> >>
> >  > Aubu
> >> rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> >> Auburn, AL 36830
> >>
> >>
> >>   alan.l...@aerowire.net
> >>
> >>
> >> tel:
> >> mobile:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >  > 98&E
> >> mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> >>
> >>
> >  > 92&E
> >> mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >  > in&i
> >> nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> >>
> >>  
> > Want a
> >> signature like this?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
>


> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>


> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[John Scrivner]

What is the "crossroads" radio platform? I have never heard of it. Any link
to information about it is appreciated.
Thank you,
John Scrivner


On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)
>
> The crossroads is FCC certified.
>
> On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  wrote:
> > Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Jerry Richardson
> > airCloud Communications
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
> >
> > Mikrotik! :)
> >
> > --
> > * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
> > Member - wispa.org  Link Technologies, Inc --
> > Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
> > *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> > 
> >
> > */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
> > /*
> >
> >
> >
> > Alan Long wrote:
> >> I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be
> > able
> >> to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
> >> work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.
> > Trying
> >> to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Alan Long
> >> Director of Network Operations
> >>
> >> Aerowire
> >>
> >>
> >  > Aubu
> >> rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> >> Auburn, AL 36830
> >>
> >>
> >>   alan.l...@aerowire.net
> >>
> >>
> >> tel:
> >> mobile:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >  > 98&E
> >> mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> >>
> >>
> >  > 92&E
> >> mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >  > in&i
> >> nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> >>
> >>  
> > Want a
> >> signature like this?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
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> >
>
>
> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Travis Johnson]

You can not grow in large scales without financing... and I don't
understand why people are against it. Our last equipment lease was
under 10% interest, no personal guarantees, no money up front. We were
able to purchase a large quantity of CPE units (thus saving us about
20% off the single unit price). So, in the end, it actually saves money
and the "cost" of installing a new customer is $0 to you, because the
$99 installation fee pays for the time, materials, etc.

Example:
single CPE = $190 each
460 CPE = $155 each

36 month lease on $71,300 = $2,300 per month x 36 months = $82,800 /
460 units = $180 each

And it costs you $5 per month for 36 months for the equipment on that
customer... that's pretty cheap even if you only charge $29 per month.
:)

Travis
Microserv

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  


- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


  
  
Every WISP needs to ask themselves... Why are they not deploying more 
broadband? How come they have 500 custoemrs instead of 5000?
What is standing in their way? What are they lacking?  What do you need to 
change that?

  
  
My "hold-up" is twofold...The cost of installs, and the fact that people 
are slow change.   Inertia, they call it.

  
  
I know what I need. I need a loan guarantee program, that can be secured 
by the only assets that I have, my network, and the commitment to 
deploying, that I have shown.

What do you need?

  
  
I think the introduction of the "bullet" has pretty much answered the cost 
thing for those who aer willing to use them.

In my case, I've not decided to use them, or not use them.  I have one 
sitting beside me I have yet to get to test.

  
  
I want programs that do not show preference or predudice. For example, we 
need end user CPE assistance.
It shouldn;t matter whether the CPE is a $100 CPE, a $500 CPE, a Fiber 
Optic CPE, or a Wireless CPE. A CPE is a CPE.
And a low income family needs the same assistanceregardless of the 
technology or provier. What we need is a CPE procurement assistance 
program that is technology/vendor neutral, so it can be used for the end 
user's provider of choice. So we can compete on service, not by who has 
the most access to long term finance.

  
  
I'm not willing to finance anything.   it's paid for in cash, or it's not to 
be.   That's how I operate now.

  
  
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Blair Davis
 To: WISPA General List
 Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


 I happen to agree with muddyfrog...

 I built my network with NO money from the gov.  My 'competition' has 
taken gov money, lots of it

 One of them put up a $40K AP cluster, 900MHz, smack in the middle of a 
900MHz PtP link I have, (running since 2001), and then complained to me 
when they had interference problems.  My link still works fine.Their poor 
planning, and gobs of 'free money', suddenly became my problem.

 I, like frog, simply want to be left alone.  Don't give my competition 
money, don't give me money.

 Of my 3 competitors, 2 would not exist without gov money.

 Blair

 Jack Unger wrote:

   ***  Everybody brings JOY to this list. Some by entering, some by 
LEAVING  ***


   rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
I'm very, very, very  

 -- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile 

Phone 818-227-4220  Email 


 



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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Josh Luthman]

In the last three months the price of copper and steel materials
dropped like a stone...

On 1/1/09, Tom DeReggi  wrote:
> Copper is worth something. Last year, here in MD, ther ewas a racket where
> theives would steal copper wire from live deployment, and sell it to the
> recyclers, at a clear profit. It was valuable enough some people were
> willing to go risk getting caught and going to jail, to recycle it.
>
> A cabler friend of ours, kept a stockpile from their de-isntallation. Then
> every 3 months or so, they'd bring to recycle, and give all the profit to
> the employees, eitehr as a bonus, or to fund the booze for the next company
> party.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
>
>
>>I would have thought the copper would be worth a bit...don't know
>> anymore though.
>>
>> On 1/1/09, Chuck McCown - 3  wrote:
>>> Not worth shipping unless you have a whole bunch.
>>> Look up in your local yellow pages "metal recyclers" or scrap metal
>>> dealers.
>>> They might take it off your hands, perhaps giving you a few dollars.  The
>>> problem is the ratio of insulation to copper.
>>> Too much plastic, not enough copper.  If you were the type to ignore
>>> environmental concerns, you could toss it on a bonfire to burn off the
>>> plastic and rake out the copper.  That is how all the old scrap dealers
>>> did
>>> it.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Martha Huizenga" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:47 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
>>>
>>>
 We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
 couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a
 place to recycle this?

 Thanks

 Martha
 --

 Martha Huizenga
 DC Access, LLC
 202-546-5898
 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
 Connecting the Capitol Hill Community

 /*



 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>> --- Henry Spencer
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
>> --
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>> Checked by AVG.
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>
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-- 
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Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer



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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[reader]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


>
> Every WISP needs to ask themselves... Why are they not deploying more 
> broadband? How come they have 500 custoemrs instead of 5000?
> What is standing in their way? What are they lacking?  What do you need to 
> change that?

My "hold-up" is twofold...The cost of installs, and the fact that people 
are slow change.   Inertia, they call it.

>
> I know what I need. I need a loan guarantee program, that can be secured 
> by the only assets that I have, my network, and the commitment to 
> deploying, that I have shown.
>
> What do you need?

I think the introduction of the "bullet" has pretty much answered the cost 
thing for those who aer willing to use them.

In my case, I've not decided to use them, or not use them.  I have one 
sitting beside me I have yet to get to test.

>
> I want programs that do not show preference or predudice. For example, we 
> need end user CPE assistance.
> It shouldn;t matter whether the CPE is a $100 CPE, a $500 CPE, a Fiber 
> Optic CPE, or a Wireless CPE. A CPE is a CPE.
> And a low income family needs the same assistanceregardless of the 
> technology or provier. What we need is a CPE procurement assistance 
> program that is technology/vendor neutral, so it can be used for the end 
> user's provider of choice. So we can compete on service, not by who has 
> the most access to long term finance.

I'm not willing to finance anything.   it's paid for in cash, or it's not to 
be.   That's how I operate now.

>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Blair Davis
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
>  I happen to agree with muddyfrog...
>
>  I built my network with NO money from the gov.  My 'competition' has 
> taken gov money, lots of it
>
>  One of them put up a $40K AP cluster, 900MHz, smack in the middle of a 
> 900MHz PtP link I have, (running since 2001), and then complained to me 
> when they had interference problems.  My link still works fine.Their poor 
> planning, and gobs of 'free money', suddenly became my problem.
>
>  I, like frog, simply want to be left alone.  Don't give my competition 
> money, don't give me money.
>
>  Of my 3 competitors, 2 would not exist without gov money.
>
>  Blair
>
>  Jack Unger wrote:
>
>***  Everybody brings JOY to this list. Some by entering, some by 
> LEAVING  ***
>
>
>rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
> I'm very, very, very  
>
>  -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
> FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile 
> 
> Phone 818-227-4220  Email 
>
>
>  
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>
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>
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>
>  
> 
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>  Checked by AVG.
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[reader]

LOL!

That's really a pretty good description of any really large and beaurocratic 
organization







- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 3" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


>I generally characterize our "government", (to folks from other places 
>where
> there is not so much freedom) as an insane giant robot that was originally
> created to work for us and is collectively owned by all of us.
>
> We have hired hundreds of thousands of programmers and mechanics to fix it
> and enhance it and rid it of its insanity but none of the fixers talk to
> each other before trying out the latest release of firmware.
>
> One guy will fix the foot and the hand starts smashing houses.
>
> This analogy has gotten some interesting conversations started with folks
> from the middle east.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
>> "Government" is not a monolith, and to condemn it out of hand is
>> unreasonable.  You can certainly go to local, even state government
>> meetings, and express your opinion, and have an impact.  I've done so 
>> many
>> times (and I also sit on the other side of the table on my local township
>> board).  My issue is with the Feds, and it's the best reason to join a
>> group
>> like Wispa.  There is no way that a small/medium sized provider can hope
>> to
>> have any sort of a voice at that level, unless you happen to personally
>> know
>> the chairman of the particular committee or sub-committee that effects
>> you.
>> Possible, but unlikely.
>>
>> Happy New Year!
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jack Unger
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:29 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I disagree (not with you but) with people who can do nothing but
>> mindlessly
>> condemn "the government". The next time their house catches on fire they
>> better forget all about calling the Fire Dept - after all, it's run by
>> "the
>> government". When it snows they should stop expecting a snow plow to 
>> clear
>> the road... snow plowing is provided by "the government". For that 
>> matter,
>> they should stop expecting to drive on paved roads at all... roads are
>> built
>> and maintained by "the government".
>>
>> People who mindlessly condemn "the government" are hypocrites, pure and
>> simple. They take government help with one hand while loudly denouncing
>> what
>> "the government" is doing for others. If these people were really good
>> citizens, they would shut their mouths, get the act in gear and get out 
>> to
>> some government meetings to politely and respectfully 1) express their
>> opinions and 2) volunteer their time to work to help create positive
>> change
>> in their community.
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what you disagree with here Jack.  Personally, I think
>>> the less government involvement the better.  They will throw money at
>>> people who have spent money lobbying them (likely not the small/medium
>>> sized WISP).  The money will be used poorly in many/most cases and the
>>> buildout will not have the desired effect.  Also, it is likely that
>>> your competition will get the lion's share of the money, since many
>>> WISPs serve as the only broadband provider in a small market.
>>>
>>> I think the RUS loans are a far better way of getting things done.  If
>>> they want to subsidize something they can reduce the interest rate to
>>> the borrower.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>   _
>>>
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:40 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***  Everybody brings JOY to this list. Some by entering, some by
>>> LEAVING
>>> ***
>>>
>>>
>>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm very, very, very  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author -
>> "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
>> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic.
>> #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile 
>> Phone 818-227-4220  Email 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: 

Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Tom DeReggi]

And provided you live somewhere like Nevada that would have 8 channels 
available.
Remember Whitespace, isn't realisitic for tight beam PTP.
The last thing we want is vendors making gear that bonds 8 channels.
All it takes is one of those APs every 30 miles, to KILL ALL competition in 
that area.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


> Whitespaces sure will allow that, given the vendors produce gear that 
> bonds
> multiple channels.  Bond 4 channels together and you've got 80 megs of
> throughput.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Tom DeReggi" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:13 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>> Yeah, but the secret to getting more spectrum is not asking for it, nor
>> proving need. The secret is identifying spectrum that could be available,
>> that someone else doesn't already have claim to.
>>
>> Whitespace is going to be awesome for you west-coast/central folk, but
>> that
>> still isn't going to yield 5-10mbps to subs.
>>
>> The biggest risk in upcomming broadband policy is that it will be written
>> to
>> incourage only "fiber" deployment.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>
>>
>>> Let us hope that with the push for more broadband accessibility we get
>>> more
>>> spectrum!!!
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>>> --- Henry Spencer
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM, chris cooper
>>> wrote:
>>>

 And your chainsaws- going to need to cut some mighty big holes in the
 air to fit all the needed spectrum into

 Chris

 That article states they want to define "broadband" as 5Mbps, and some
 folks suggest 10Mbps. Get your forklifts ready!

 David Smith
 MVN.net


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Tom DeReggi]

Copper is worth something. Last year, here in MD, ther ewas a racket where 
theives would steal copper wire from live deployment, and sell it to the 
recyclers, at a clear profit. It was valuable enough some people were 
willing to go risk getting caught and going to jail, to recycle it.

A cabler friend of ours, kept a stockpile from their de-isntallation. Then 
every 3 months or so, they'd bring to recycle, and give all the profit to 
the employees, eitehr as a bonus, or to fund the booze for the next company 
party.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?


>I would have thought the copper would be worth a bit...don't know
> anymore though.
>
> On 1/1/09, Chuck McCown - 3  wrote:
>> Not worth shipping unless you have a whole bunch.
>> Look up in your local yellow pages "metal recyclers" or scrap metal 
>> dealers.
>> They might take it off your hands, perhaps giving you a few dollars.  The
>> problem is the ratio of insulation to copper.
>> Too much plastic, not enough copper.  If you were the type to ignore
>> environmental concerns, you could toss it on a bonfire to burn off the
>> plastic and rake out the copper.  That is how all the old scrap dealers 
>> did
>> it.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Martha Huizenga" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:47 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
>>
>>
>>> We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
>>> couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a
>>> place to recycle this?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Martha
>>> --
>>>
>>> Martha Huizenga
>>> DC Access, LLC
>>> 202-546-5898
>>> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
>>> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>
> -- 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Tom DeReggi]

ARGG! "Accepting money" or "Accepting Help" are NOT bad words.
The problem is the FREE money goes to the wrong people, or does not get fairly 
spread around. 
The government often forgets to reward the small guy proportionaly, who put his 
neck out there in many of the early needy years.
The problem is that they do not give enough, nor in an efficient manner.

I know what its like to do it alone. I started my professional life with a pair 
of Levi's, $5 in its pocket, and a very used car loan/payment my church credit 
union.  I didn't "need" a dime from anyone, to build my life and career. But 20 
years later, now that I have nothing to prove, I can honestly say, the "hard" 
way is absolultely not necessary, and there is a "better" way for it to get 
done, other than to do it alone.
There are very few businesses in this world that did it well and in scale, 
"alone". 

There is a President in place that WILL be giving money or some form of 
financial assistance. We will never be given anything if we don't ask for it. 
And it will be given to our competitors, if we don;t make it clear why it 
should be given to us instead. 
Our best bet as an industry, is to ask for exactly what we want.   
  
The first thing we need to answer for the government is Why are lobbiests 
asking for "50mbps to the Home"?  There is no good reason, it is completely 
unnecessary.  We need to steer officals away from thinking of "speed/capacity" 
needs. And start getting the message clear of what the deficiencies and needs 
really are. It has nothing to do with capacity. If every American home had 
1mbps, it would be an amazing revolutionizing accomplishment. If every American 
had a choice of 2-3 providers, it would also be a revolutionizing 
accompplishment.
If everyone had the ability to deploy broadband without being inhibited, that 
would also be a revolutionizing thing. There is one clear clear Problem that 
needs fixing That broadband providers are inhibited from deploying. It 
might be lack of rights to easement/right-of-ways/permits. It might be lack of 
Loan guarantees. 

Every WISP needs to ask themselves... Why are they not deploying more 
broadband? How come they have 500 custoemrs instead of 5000?
What is standing in their way? What are they lacking?  What do you need to 
change that?

I know what I need. I need a loan guarantee program, that can be secured by the 
only assets that I have, my network, and the commitment to deploying, that I 
have shown. 
 
What do you need?

I want programs that do not show preference or predudice. For example, we need 
end user CPE assistance. 
It shouldn;t matter whether the CPE is a $100 CPE, a $500 CPE, a Fiber Optic 
CPE, or a Wireless CPE. A CPE is a CPE.
And a low income family needs the same assistanceregardless of the technology 
or provier. What we need is a CPE procurement assistance program that is 
technology/vendor neutral, so it can be used for the end user's provider of 
choice. So we can compete on service, not by who has the most access to long 
term finance.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Blair Davis 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


  I happen to agree with muddyfrog...

  I built my network with NO money from the gov.  My 'competition' has taken 
gov money, lots of it

  One of them put up a $40K AP cluster, 900MHz, smack in the middle of a 900MHz 
PtP link I have, (running since 2001), and then complained to me when they had 
interference problems.  My link still works fine.Their poor planning, and gobs 
of 'free money', suddenly became my problem.

  I, like frog, simply want to be left alone.  Don't give my competition money, 
don't give me money.

  Of my 3 competitors, 2 would not exist without gov money.

  Blair

  Jack Unger wrote:

***  Everybody brings JOY to this list. Some by entering, some by LEAVING  
***


rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: 
I'm very, very, very  

  -- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile 
Phone 818-227-4220  Email 


  



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--

Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Mike Hammett]

Whitespaces sure will allow that, given the vendors produce gear that bonds 
multiple channels.  Bond 4 channels together and you've got 80 megs of 
throughput.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:13 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

> Yeah, but the secret to getting more spectrum is not asking for it, nor
> proving need. The secret is identifying spectrum that could be available,
> that someone else doesn't already have claim to.
>
> Whitespace is going to be awesome for you west-coast/central folk, but 
> that
> still isn't going to yield 5-10mbps to subs.
>
> The biggest risk in upcomming broadband policy is that it will be written 
> to
> incourage only "fiber" deployment.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
>> Let us hope that with the push for more broadband accessibility we get
>> more
>> spectrum!!!
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>> --- Henry Spencer
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM, chris cooper
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And your chainsaws- going to need to cut some mighty big holes in the
>>> air to fit all the needed spectrum into
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> That article states they want to define "broadband" as 5Mbps, and some
>>> folks suggest 10Mbps. Get your forklifts ready!
>>>
>>> David Smith
>>> MVN.net
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
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>> 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Tom DeReggi]

Yeah, but the secret to getting more spectrum is not asking for it, nor 
proving need. The secret is identifying spectrum that could be available, 
that someone else doesn't already have claim to.

Whitespace is going to be awesome for you west-coast/central folk, but that 
still isn't going to yield 5-10mbps to subs.

The biggest risk in upcomming broadband policy is that it will be written to 
incourage only "fiber" deployment.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


> Let us hope that with the push for more broadband accessibility we get 
> more
> spectrum!!!
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM, chris cooper 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> And your chainsaws- going to need to cut some mighty big holes in the
>> air to fit all the needed spectrum into
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> That article states they want to define "broadband" as 5Mbps, and some
>> folks suggest 10Mbps. Get your forklifts ready!
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Tom DeReggi]

Actually, Not sure the Government has the right to define "broadband".
Anyone check if anyone had a copyright, trademark, or Patent, on the term 
"broadband"?
Is Webster required to accept/print the definition sent to them from the 
Gov?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "David E. Smith" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


> Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>> We have all had the pleasure to earn a customer that has three kids 
>> nagging
>> at him for a PC and Internet access with that extra bonus check from 
>> work,
>> but think of the countless older couples or less fortunate families that
>> could really use the help catching up with the rest of the world
>> technologically.
>
> That article states they want to define "broadband" as 5Mbps, and some
> folks suggest 10Mbps. Get your forklifts ready!
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[Rogelio]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> If all else fails you can use a pair of BelAir links and use
> RouterOS/OSPF to concatinate them :)

For long links, someone people I know claim to do something similar with 
RSTP: put two panels up (one on each polarization) and then plug both 
radios on each side into a layer 3 switch that supports RSTP (two 
ethernet interfaces on one side of the link, and two on the other side, 
as well).

When one panel link goes down, the other panel on the other polarization 
(in theory) should be okay.  That is, assuming you planned your link 
budget well, of course...

Anyone else done this?  I have not done it personally, I hear it works 
great.  (But like everything, I have to do it personally before I fully 
believe anything anyone tells me about technology!)



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Re: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[Josh Luthman]

If all else fails you can use a pair of BelAir links and use
RouterOS/OSPF to concatinate them :)

On 1/1/09, Rogelio  wrote:
> I'm not sure he knows what he wants, at this point.
>
> He knows that I do stuff with wifi mesh using BelAir products and wanted
> to know what that would cost.  I told him BelAir might be good up to
> only a certain Mbps (fairly steady ~30Mbps on 802.11a radios, which I've
> tested many times), and after that, he'd after to think about
> frequencies not offered in any of the radios modules that you can put in
> a BelAir.  He also only needs a simple PtP bridge, and a lot of the
> extra stuff he'd be paying for with BelAir would be too much if he
> didn't plan on ever exceeding that.
>
> Thanks for the advice on the Motorola Orthagon line.  I have heard a lot
> of crap about their product line (mostly from people I work with who
> used to work with their products or at Motorola), but I'm not sure if it
> was this particular line or not.
>
> Their 500/600 series look good bandwidth wise. Some of the others
> (100/200/300/400 series), however, look fairly so-so at best (and sucky
> at worst).
>
> If he's willing to pay, I'll definitely tell him to consider Bridgewave
> or Dragonwave.
>
> Thanks for the input!
>
> 3-dB Networks wrote:
>> And does he want 100Mb full duplex or aggregate?  Motorola Orthogon radios
>> (specifically the PtP 500 Full) hits 105Mbps aggregate... that could be a
>> real winner.
>>
>> 100Mb full duplex would be Dragonwave... 24Ghz could be a nice solution so
>> they don't have to worry about the license.
>>
>> If he wants 1Gbps he could look at Bridgwave... but those links are not
>> cheap.
>>
>> Daniel White
>> 3-dB Networks
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Rogelio
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:16 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings
>>>
>>> A friend in my Linux user group is in charge of setting up the IT in a
>>> building that's about about a mile or so away, and he wants to bridge
>>> them via wireless rather than pay a monthly dedicated circuit between
>>> them. The number of end users there will be about 50 or so.
>>>
>>> He asked me what I would recommend, but I was only familiar with
>>> 802.11a/b/n gear that ran about $5K on each side and only got, on
>>> average, 30-35 Mbps. I told him that there might be better solutions out
>>> there that used a different frequency or more channels, as bandwidth is
>>> more important to him at this point rather than any particular frequency
>>> or brand. I'm hoping to find him something in the 50-100 Mbps range for
>>> something reasonable.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?  He wants to make sure that his solution is fairly rugged.
>>> It's southern CA (a little inland), so it's not too bad there, but I'm
>>> sure he wants to make sure that he gets a good 5-10 years on his
>>> investment.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
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-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer



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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Chuck McCown - 3]

I generally characterize our "government", (to folks from other places where 
there is not so much freedom) as an insane giant robot that was originally 
created to work for us and is collectively owned by all of us.

We have hired hundreds of thousands of programmers and mechanics to fix it 
and enhance it and rid it of its insanity but none of the fixers talk to 
each other before trying out the latest release of firmware.

One guy will fix the foot and the hand starts smashing houses.

This analogy has gotten some interesting conversations started with folks 
from the middle east.

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow


> "Government" is not a monolith, and to condemn it out of hand is
> unreasonable.  You can certainly go to local, even state government
> meetings, and express your opinion, and have an impact.  I've done so many
> times (and I also sit on the other side of the table on my local township
> board).  My issue is with the Feds, and it's the best reason to join a 
> group
> like Wispa.  There is no way that a small/medium sized provider can hope 
> to
> have any sort of a voice at that level, unless you happen to personally 
> know
> the chairman of the particular committee or sub-committee that effects 
> you.
> Possible, but unlikely.
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
> Jeff,
>
> I disagree (not with you but) with people who can do nothing but 
> mindlessly
> condemn "the government". The next time their house catches on fire they
> better forget all about calling the Fire Dept - after all, it's run by 
> "the
> government". When it snows they should stop expecting a snow plow to clear
> the road... snow plowing is provided by "the government". For that matter,
> they should stop expecting to drive on paved roads at all... roads are 
> built
> and maintained by "the government".
>
> People who mindlessly condemn "the government" are hypocrites, pure and
> simple. They take government help with one hand while loudly denouncing 
> what
> "the government" is doing for others. If these people were really good
> citizens, they would shut their mouths, get the act in gear and get out to
> some government meetings to politely and respectfully 1) express their
> opinions and 2) volunteer their time to work to help create positive 
> change
> in their community.
>
> jack
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> I'm not sure what you disagree with here Jack.  Personally, I think
>> the less government involvement the better.  They will throw money at
>> people who have spent money lobbying them (likely not the small/medium
>> sized WISP).  The money will be used poorly in many/most cases and the
>> buildout will not have the desired effect.  Also, it is likely that
>> your competition will get the lion's share of the money, since many
>> WISPs serve as the only broadband provider in a small market.
>>
>> I think the RUS loans are a far better way of getting things done.  If
>> they want to subsidize something they can reduce the interest rate to
>> the borrower.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>   _
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:40 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>>
>>
>>
>> ***  Everybody brings JOY to this list. Some by entering, some by
>> LEAVING
>> ***
>>
>>
>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>
>> I'm very, very, very  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author -
> "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
> For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic.
> #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile 
> Phone 818-227-4220  Email 
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
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>
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Jonathan Schmidt]

Unfortunately, copper has dropped to about a third of what it sold for
last Spring:
 http://www.lme.co.uk/copper_graphs.asp
. . . J o n a t h a n
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Ehman
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

That is a great idea.  Never thought about it before.  With Chuck's
comment, I am curious to see how much usable copper is in the cable
though.

-Jeff

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of
Martha Huizenga [mar...@dcaccess.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a couple
of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a place to
recycle this?

Thanks

Martha
--

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill
Community

/*



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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Jeff Ehman]

Thinking about it more though, the cost of the cable fluctuates a lot with the 
price of the commodity.  Purchasing becomes a big pain sometimes so I think 
there may be some cash in it.  I think a lot of us would like to know what you 
get for it.

-Jeff

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff 
Ehman [jeh...@cticonnect.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

That is a great idea.  Never thought about it before.  With Chuck's comment, I 
am curious to see how much usable copper is in the cable though.

-Jeff

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 
Martha Huizenga [mar...@dcaccess.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a
place to recycle this?

Thanks

Martha
--

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
Connecting the Capitol Hill Community

/*




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Re: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[Rogelio]

I'm not sure he knows what he wants, at this point.

He knows that I do stuff with wifi mesh using BelAir products and wanted 
to know what that would cost.  I told him BelAir might be good up to 
only a certain Mbps (fairly steady ~30Mbps on 802.11a radios, which I've 
tested many times), and after that, he'd after to think about 
frequencies not offered in any of the radios modules that you can put in 
a BelAir.  He also only needs a simple PtP bridge, and a lot of the 
extra stuff he'd be paying for with BelAir would be too much if he 
didn't plan on ever exceeding that.

Thanks for the advice on the Motorola Orthagon line.  I have heard a lot 
of crap about their product line (mostly from people I work with who 
used to work with their products or at Motorola), but I'm not sure if it 
was this particular line or not.

Their 500/600 series look good bandwidth wise. Some of the others 
(100/200/300/400 series), however, look fairly so-so at best (and sucky 
at worst).

If he's willing to pay, I'll definitely tell him to consider Bridgewave 
or Dragonwave.

Thanks for the input!

3-dB Networks wrote:
> And does he want 100Mb full duplex or aggregate?  Motorola Orthogon radios
> (specifically the PtP 500 Full) hits 105Mbps aggregate... that could be a
> real winner.
> 
> 100Mb full duplex would be Dragonwave... 24Ghz could be a nice solution so
> they don't have to worry about the license.
> 
> If he wants 1Gbps he could look at Bridgwave... but those links are not
> cheap.
> 
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Rogelio
>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:16 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings
>>
>> A friend in my Linux user group is in charge of setting up the IT in a
>> building that's about about a mile or so away, and he wants to bridge
>> them via wireless rather than pay a monthly dedicated circuit between
>> them. The number of end users there will be about 50 or so.
>>
>> He asked me what I would recommend, but I was only familiar with
>> 802.11a/b/n gear that ran about $5K on each side and only got, on
>> average, 30-35 Mbps. I told him that there might be better solutions out
>> there that used a different frequency or more channels, as bandwidth is
>> more important to him at this point rather than any particular frequency
>> or brand. I'm hoping to find him something in the 50-100 Mbps range for
>> something reasonable.
>>
>> Any ideas?  He wants to make sure that his solution is fairly rugged.
>> It's southern CA (a little inland), so it's not too bad there, but I'm
>> sure he wants to make sure that he gets a good 5-10 years on his
>> investment.
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>> --
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Jeff Ehman]

That is a great idea.  Never thought about it before.  With Chuck's comment, I 
am curious to see how much usable copper is in the cable though.

-Jeff

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 
Martha Huizenga [mar...@dcaccess.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a
place to recycle this?

Thanks

Martha
--

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
Connecting the Capitol Hill Community

/*




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Re: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

[Matt Liotta]

On Jan 1, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

> If you port your number over, and that company goes out of business,  
> you have a mess. :(
>
That is not true. All regulated telecommunication companies are  
required to let your number port out except for a few specific  
reasons. What is more likely is that the control of the numbers in  
question was "transfered" to some non-regulated telecommunication, so  
that they could in turn have an upstream regulated company actually do  
the port. At that point the individual/company actually lost control  
over their numbers in the process.

Read those LOAs carefully.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Jeff Broadwick]

"Government" is not a monolith, and to condemn it out of hand is
unreasonable.  You can certainly go to local, even state government
meetings, and express your opinion, and have an impact.  I've done so many
times (and I also sit on the other side of the table on my local township
board).  My issue is with the Feds, and it's the best reason to join a group
like Wispa.  There is no way that a small/medium sized provider can hope to
have any sort of a voice at that level, unless you happen to personally know
the chairman of the particular committee or sub-committee that effects you.
Possible, but unlikely.

Happy New Year!

Jeff



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

Jeff,

I disagree (not with you but) with people who can do nothing but mindlessly
condemn "the government". The next time their house catches on fire they
better forget all about calling the Fire Dept - after all, it's run by "the
government". When it snows they should stop expecting a snow plow to clear
the road... snow plowing is provided by "the government". For that matter,
they should stop expecting to drive on paved roads at all... roads are built
and maintained by "the government".

People who mindlessly condemn "the government" are hypocrites, pure and
simple. They take government help with one hand while loudly denouncing what
"the government" is doing for others. If these people were really good
citizens, they would shut their mouths, get the act in gear and get out to
some government meetings to politely and respectfully 1) express their
opinions and 2) volunteer their time to work to help create positive change
in their community.

jack


Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> I'm not sure what you disagree with here Jack.  Personally, I think 
> the less government involvement the better.  They will throw money at 
> people who have spent money lobbying them (likely not the small/medium 
> sized WISP).  The money will be used poorly in many/most cases and the 
> buildout will not have the desired effect.  Also, it is likely that 
> your competition will get the lion's share of the money, since many 
> WISPs serve as the only broadband provider in a small market.
>  
> I think the RUS loans are a far better way of getting things done.  If 
> they want to subsidize something they can reduce the interest rate to 
> the borrower.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Jeff
>
>   _
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:40 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow
>
>
>
> ***  Everybody brings JOY to this list. Some by entering, some by 
> LEAVING
> ***
>
>
> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: 
>
> I'm very, very, very  
>
>
>
>   
>
>   

--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author -
"Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic.
#PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile 
Phone 818-227-4220  Email 






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Re: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[3-dB Networks]

And does he want 100Mb full duplex or aggregate?  Motorola Orthogon radios
(specifically the PtP 500 Full) hits 105Mbps aggregate... that could be a
real winner.

100Mb full duplex would be Dragonwave... 24Ghz could be a nice solution so
they don't have to worry about the license.

If he wants 1Gbps he could look at Bridgwave... but those links are not
cheap.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks

> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Rogelio
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:16 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings
> 
> A friend in my Linux user group is in charge of setting up the IT in a
> building that's about about a mile or so away, and he wants to bridge
> them via wireless rather than pay a monthly dedicated circuit between
> them. The number of end users there will be about 50 or so.
> 
> He asked me what I would recommend, but I was only familiar with
> 802.11a/b/n gear that ran about $5K on each side and only got, on
> average, 30-35 Mbps. I told him that there might be better solutions out
> there that used a different frequency or more channels, as bandwidth is
> more important to him at this point rather than any particular frequency
> or brand. I'm hoping to find him something in the 50-100 Mbps range for
> something reasonable.
> 
> Any ideas?  He wants to make sure that his solution is fairly rugged.
> It's southern CA (a little inland), so it's not too bad there, but I'm
> sure he wants to make sure that he gets a good 5-10 years on his
> investment.
> 
> 
> --
> --
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --
> --
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[Josh Luthman]

Dragonwave would be my first suggestion.  You can look at the Redline
an80s too - they're cheap but won't provide 100 megs.

On 1/1/09, Chuck McCown - 3  wrote:
> What do you consider reasonable.
> Dragonwave 24 G would be good.  Orthogon, Trango Giga, Ligowave.
> If money is not an issue, I would go Dragonwave.  Licensed or unlicensed.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rogelio" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:16 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings
>
>
>>A friend in my Linux user group is in charge of setting up the IT in a
>> building that's about about a mile or so away, and he wants to bridge
>> them via wireless rather than pay a monthly dedicated circuit between
>> them. The number of end users there will be about 50 or so.
>>
>> He asked me what I would recommend, but I was only familiar with
>> 802.11a/b/n gear that ran about $5K on each side and only got, on
>> average, 30-35 Mbps. I told him that there might be better solutions out
>> there that used a different frequency or more channels, as bandwidth is
>> more important to him at this point rather than any particular frequency
>> or brand. I'm hoping to find him something in the 50-100 Mbps range for
>> something reasonable.
>>
>> Any ideas?  He wants to make sure that his solution is fairly rugged.
>> It's southern CA (a little inland), so it's not too bad there, but I'm
>> sure he wants to make sure that he gets a good 5-10 years on his
>> investment.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer



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Re: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[Chuck McCown - 3]

What do you consider reasonable.
Dragonwave 24 G would be good.  Orthogon, Trango Giga, Ligowave.
If money is not an issue, I would go Dragonwave.  Licensed or unlicensed.
- Original Message - 
From: "Rogelio" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings


>A friend in my Linux user group is in charge of setting up the IT in a
> building that's about about a mile or so away, and he wants to bridge
> them via wireless rather than pay a monthly dedicated circuit between
> them. The number of end users there will be about 50 or so.
>
> He asked me what I would recommend, but I was only familiar with
> 802.11a/b/n gear that ran about $5K on each side and only got, on
> average, 30-35 Mbps. I told him that there might be better solutions out
> there that used a different frequency or more channels, as bandwidth is
> more important to him at this point rather than any particular frequency
> or brand. I'm hoping to find him something in the 50-100 Mbps range for
> something reasonable.
>
> Any ideas?  He wants to make sure that his solution is fairly rugged.
> It's southern CA (a little inland), so it's not too bad there, but I'm
> sure he wants to make sure that he gets a good 5-10 years on his 
> investment.
>
>
> 
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> 
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[WISPA] affordable solution for bridging two buildings

[Rogelio]

A friend in my Linux user group is in charge of setting up the IT in a 
building that's about about a mile or so away, and he wants to bridge 
them via wireless rather than pay a monthly dedicated circuit between 
them. The number of end users there will be about 50 or so.

He asked me what I would recommend, but I was only familiar with 
802.11a/b/n gear that ran about $5K on each side and only got, on 
average, 30-35 Mbps. I told him that there might be better solutions out 
there that used a different frequency or more channels, as bandwidth is 
more important to him at this point rather than any particular frequency 
or brand. I'm hoping to find him something in the 50-100 Mbps range for 
something reasonable.

Any ideas?  He wants to make sure that his solution is fairly rugged. 
It's southern CA (a little inland), so it's not too bad there, but I'm 
sure he wants to make sure that he gets a good 5-10 years on his investment.



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Re: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

[Mike Hammett]

Maybe that's just how Qwest is.  I've done so before with other companies.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:43 PM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down


Actually there is more to it... the last time a local VoIP provider went out of 
business, people could NOT get their numbers back. The issue was everyone had 
transferred their number to this company, and then they went out of business. 
So, per Qwest's regulations, the numbers automatically went back into the 
"pool" of available numbers... but only after 3 or 6 months. So businesses were 
unable to get their primary numbers back. A large attorney firm spent over a 
year in a lawsuit with Qwest (spending hundreds of legal hours) and after a 
year were able to finally get their number back.

If you port your number over, and that company goes out of business, you have a 
mess. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote: 
Just because Qwest has cut them off doesn't mean you can't LNP your number 
elsewhere.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Travis Johnson" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:14 PM
To: ; "Motorola Canopy User Group" 
; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

  Hi,

It looks a like a large VoIP/ISP provider in the western US has gone out
of business. OneConnectip (www.oneconnectip.com) is apparently in a
legal battle with Qwest. However, Qwest has basically turned off most
(if not all) of their services (over 100,000 DSL lines, backhauls, T1,
DIA, etc.) and I now have their clients calling us wanting us to hook
them up TODAY. Many people are going to be completely screwed because
they "turned over" their main business number to OneConnect and Qwest
doesn't give those back (they go back in the main number pool after so
many days). Just in our small market of 50,000 there are over 100
businesses that are completely down.

Yet another reason why I have always said to not have voice and Internet
service from the same provider. These businesses are now dead in the
water (no voice, no internet). Some of them have just sent employees
home because they can't do ANYTHING today. :(

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

[Travis Johnson]

Actually there is more to it... the last time a local VoIP provider
went out of business, people could NOT get their numbers back. The
issue was everyone had transferred their number to this company, and
then they went out of business. So, per Qwest's regulations, the
numbers automatically went back into the "pool" of available numbers...
but only after 3 or 6 months. So businesses were unable to get their
primary numbers back. A large attorney firm spent over a year in a
lawsuit with Qwest (spending hundreds of legal hours) and after a year
were able to finally get their number back.

If you port your number over, and that company goes out of business,
you have a mess. :(

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:

  Just because Qwest has cut them off doesn't mean you can't LNP your number 
elsewhere.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Travis Johnson" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:14 PM
To: ; "Motorola Canopy User Group" 
; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

  
  
Hi,

It looks a like a large VoIP/ISP provider in the western US has gone out
of business. OneConnectip (www.oneconnectip.com) is apparently in a
legal battle with Qwest. However, Qwest has basically turned off most
(if not all) of their services (over 100,000 DSL lines, backhauls, T1,
DIA, etc.) and I now have their clients calling us wanting us to hook
them up TODAY. Many people are going to be completely screwed because
they "turned over" their main business number to OneConnect and Qwest
doesn't give those back (they go back in the main number pool after so
many days). Just in our small market of 50,000 there are over 100
businesses that are completely down.

Yet another reason why I have always said to not have voice and Internet
service from the same provider. These businesses are now dead in the
water (no voice, no internet). Some of them have just sent employees
home because they can't do ANYTHING today. :(

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

[Mike Hammett]

Just because Qwest has cut them off doesn't mean you can't LNP your number 
elsewhere.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Travis Johnson" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:14 PM
To: ; "Motorola Canopy User Group" 
; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] OneConnectIP down

> Hi,
>
> It looks a like a large VoIP/ISP provider in the western US has gone out
> of business. OneConnectip (www.oneconnectip.com) is apparently in a
> legal battle with Qwest. However, Qwest has basically turned off most
> (if not all) of their services (over 100,000 DSL lines, backhauls, T1,
> DIA, etc.) and I now have their clients calling us wanting us to hook
> them up TODAY. Many people are going to be completely screwed because
> they "turned over" their main business number to OneConnect and Qwest
> doesn't give those back (they go back in the main number pool after so
> many days). Just in our small market of 50,000 there are over 100
> businesses that are completely down.
>
> Yet another reason why I have always said to not have voice and Internet
> service from the same provider. These businesses are now dead in the
> water (no voice, no internet). Some of them have just sent employees
> home because they can't do ANYTHING today. :(
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

[Mike Hammett]

But not at 5 GHz.

I wouldn't use MT in 5.2 - 5.7 because there is no DFS2 availability for it.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:32 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear

> Dennis - I already beat you to the punch.  Don't steal my glory :)
>
> The crossroads is FCC certified.
>
> On 12/31/08, Jerry Richardson  wrote:
>> Are there FCC certificed cards to run at 5.2/5.4 with MT?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:39 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ptmp gear
>>
>> Mikrotik! :)
>>
>> --
>> * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board
>> Member - wispa.org  Link Technologies, Inc --
>> Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> 
>>
>> */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training
>> /*
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan Long wrote:
>>> I am looking for a ptmp(ap/cpe) solution, 5.2/5.4/5.8 ghz, need to be
>> able
>>> to support about 25 feeds into several ap's. Need it to be cheap, but
>>> work..Will have complete los and the longest link will be .25 miles.
>> Trying
>>> to link 25 buildings in a multi housing setup. Thanks for any help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan Long
>>> Director of Network Operations
>>>
>>> Aerowire
>>>
>>>
>> > Aubu
>>> rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
>>> Auburn, AL 36830
>>>
>>>
>>>   alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>>
>>>
>>> tel:
>>> mobile:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> > 98&E
>>> mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>>>
>>>
>> > 92&E
>>> mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> > in&i
>>> nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>>>
>>>  
>> Want a
>>> signature like this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>>
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>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

[Mike Hammett]

I doubt we're getting any more spectrum for a while.  We've been given quite 
a bit recently.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:59 PM
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congress may help smaller ISPs grow

> Let us hope that with the push for more broadband accessibility we get 
> more
> spectrum!!!
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 1:56 PM, chris cooper 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> And your chainsaws- going to need to cut some mighty big holes in the
>> air to fit all the needed spectrum into
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> That article states they want to define "broadband" as 5Mbps, and some
>> folks suggest 10Mbps. Get your forklifts ready!
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[3-dB Networks]

My sister in law works with a company whose main clients are copper mines...
she has been telling me many are shutting down because the prices are so
low.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks

> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:33 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
> 
> Guy I know runs cable for a living...for a while there he had a nice scrap
> business for the stuff they had to take out.  Copper price is way down now
> though.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:09 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
> 
> I would have thought the copper would be worth a bit...don't know anymore
> though.
> 
> On 1/1/09, Chuck McCown - 3  wrote:
> > Not worth shipping unless you have a whole bunch.
> > Look up in your local yellow pages "metal recyclers" or scrap metal
> dealers.
> > They might take it off your hands, perhaps giving you a few dollars.
> > The problem is the ratio of insulation to copper.
> > Too much plastic, not enough copper.  If you were the type to ignore
> > environmental concerns, you could toss it on a bonfire to burn off the
> > plastic and rake out the copper.  That is how all the old scrap
> > dealers did it.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Martha Huizenga" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:47 AM
> > Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
> >
> >
> >> We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
> >> couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone
> >> have a place to recycle this?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Martha
> >> --
> >>
> >> Martha Huizenga
> >> DC Access, LLC
> >> 202-546-5898
> >> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol
> >> Hill Community
> >>
> >> /*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> ---
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> -
> >> ---
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > --
> > --
> >
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> >
> 
> 
> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
> 
> 
> --
> --
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Jeff Broadwick]

Guy I know runs cable for a living...for a while there he had a nice scrap
business for the stuff they had to take out.  Copper price is way down now
though.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

I would have thought the copper would be worth a bit...don't know anymore
though.

On 1/1/09, Chuck McCown - 3  wrote:
> Not worth shipping unless you have a whole bunch.
> Look up in your local yellow pages "metal recyclers" or scrap metal
dealers.
> They might take it off your hands, perhaps giving you a few dollars.  
> The problem is the ratio of insulation to copper.
> Too much plastic, not enough copper.  If you were the type to ignore 
> environmental concerns, you could toss it on a bonfire to burn off the 
> plastic and rake out the copper.  That is how all the old scrap 
> dealers did it.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Martha Huizenga" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:47 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
>
>
>> We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a 
>> couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone 
>> have a place to recycle this?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Martha
>> --
>>
>> Martha Huizenga
>> DC Access, LLC
>> 202-546-5898
>> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol 
>> Hill Community
>>
>> /*
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>> ---
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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--
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer




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Re: [WISPA] Yikes, No Happy New years for SkyWi

[Matt Liotta]

These are not isolated incidents and affect many other companies even  
if it doesn't force them to shut down. Nevertheless, I predict we are  
going to see a number of companies with VoIP/LD exposure to go out of  
business this year. Both Qwest and Global Crossing have raised rates  
~30% yet many downstream companies haven't adjusted their rates/ 
business plan. The companies that do raise their rates see their  
customers flee over to the companies that haven't adjusted their  
rates. Those companies may be excited by the increased volume only to  
be shocked later when their bills are out of whack. This is going to  
take a while to trickle down through the resellers as Qwest and Global  
Crossing don't have that many wholesale LD customers even though the  
two companies together account for a large portion of all LD.

If you are working with an LD supplier who offers a flat rate less  
than $0.01 that company will either be raising their rate or they are  
dead.

-Matt

On Dec 31, 2008, at 11:42 PM, rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

> There's a lawsuit going on...
>
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4PRN/is_2008_Dec_8/ai_n31064185
>
> Citing the NM AG: "...part of the damages that SkyWi has sustained  
> at the
> hands of Qwest is not an isolated event. States the Report, "...these
> businesses, a vital sector of New Mexico's economy, are suffering  
> under an
> onslaught of unfair billing and business practices." The report  
> provides
> examples of these practices, including improper threats to shut down
> service, monthly bills that exceed 5,000 pages, billing errors that
> consistently favor Qwest and "An enduring 'run-around' when the small
> business tries to solve the problem with [Qwest]."
>
> Boy does that sound familiar.   Qwest once turned off my phone service
> because "the package of services on my phone was not sold in my  
> state".
> Even though I'd had it for around six months.   The joker that  
> called me to
> inform me of this "generously" offered to sell me a "proper" tarriffed
> package at... a lot higher charge than what I used to have, but not
> including the same services on the line.
>
> Although I have never noticed any notice if increase, my one  
> remaining Qwest
> line has continued upward in price.  They once convinced my wife  
> that it
> wasn't possible to have dsl with internet WITHOUT paying MSN.
> Never mind
> that the website showed internet ffrom Qwest for all of $6/mo at the  
> time.
>
> Honestly, I have a hard time siding with Qwest after my experiences  
> wtih
> them.   They've tried every trick they can think of, including  
> changing my
> services without be asked or even informed of the change, to raise  
> my bill.
>
> Sprint is little different in that regard.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "George Rogato" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:51 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Yikes, No Happy New years for SkyWi
>
>
>> http://sev.prnewswire.com/internet-technology/20081231/LA5510531122008-1.html
>>
>> The network of SkyWi, Inc., New Mexico's largest independently  
>> owned and
>> operated ISP, was shut down by Qwest, affecting tens of thousands of
>> internet and phone customers among six states.
>>
>>
>> Not sure if anyone seen this posted on the isp-wireless list
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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> 
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> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Yikes, No Happy New years for SkyWi

[Matt Liotta]

These are not isolated incidents and affect many other companies even  
if it doesn't force them to shut down. Nevertheless, I predict we are  
going to see a number of companies with VoIP/LD exposure to go out of  
business this year. Both Qwest and Global Crossing have raised rates  
~30% yet many downstream companies haven't adjusted their rates/ 
business plan. The companies that do raise their rates see their  
customers flee over to the companies that haven't adjusted their  
rates. Those companies may be excited by the increased volume only to  
be shocked later when their bills are out of whack. This is going to  
take a while to trickle down through the resellers as Qwest and Global  
Crossing don't have that many wholesale LD customers even though the  
two companies together account for a large portion of all LD.

If you are working with an LD supplier who offers a flat rate less  
than $0.01 that company will either be raising their rate or they are  
dead.

-Matt

On Dec 31, 2008, at 11:42 PM, rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

> There's a lawsuit going on...
>
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4PRN/is_2008_Dec_8/ai_n31064185
>
> Citing the NM AG: "...part of the damages that SkyWi has sustained  
> at the
> hands of Qwest is not an isolated event. States the Report, "...these
> businesses, a vital sector of New Mexico's economy, are suffering  
> under an
> onslaught of unfair billing and business practices." The report  
> provides
> examples of these practices, including improper threats to shut down
> service, monthly bills that exceed 5,000 pages, billing errors that
> consistently favor Qwest and "An enduring 'run-around' when the small
> business tries to solve the problem with [Qwest]."
>
> Boy does that sound familiar.   Qwest once turned off my phone service
> because "the package of services on my phone was not sold in my  
> state".
> Even though I'd had it for around six months.   The joker that  
> called me to
> inform me of this "generously" offered to sell me a "proper" tarriffed
> package at... a lot higher charge than what I used to have, but not
> including the same services on the line.
>
> Although I have never noticed any notice if increase, my one  
> remaining Qwest
> line has continued upward in price.  They once convinced my wife  
> that it
> wasn't possible to have dsl with internet WITHOUT paying MSN.
> Never mind
> that the website showed internet ffrom Qwest for all of $6/mo at the  
> time.
>
> Honestly, I have a hard time siding with Qwest after my experiences  
> wtih
> them.   They've tried every trick they can think of, including  
> changing my
> services without be asked or even informed of the change, to raise  
> my bill.
>
> Sprint is little different in that regard.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "George Rogato" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:51 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Yikes, No Happy New years for SkyWi
>
>
>> http://sev.prnewswire.com/internet-technology/20081231/LA5510531122008-1.html
>>
>> The network of SkyWi, Inc., New Mexico's largest independently  
>> owned and
>> operated ISP, was shut down by Qwest, affecting tens of thousands of
>> internet and phone customers among six states.
>>
>>
>> Not sure if anyone seen this posted on the isp-wireless list
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Josh Luthman]

I would have thought the copper would be worth a bit...don't know
anymore though.

On 1/1/09, Chuck McCown - 3  wrote:
> Not worth shipping unless you have a whole bunch.
> Look up in your local yellow pages "metal recyclers" or scrap metal dealers.
> They might take it off your hands, perhaps giving you a few dollars.  The
> problem is the ratio of insulation to copper.
> Too much plastic, not enough copper.  If you were the type to ignore
> environmental concerns, you could toss it on a bonfire to burn off the
> plastic and rake out the copper.  That is how all the old scrap dealers did
> it.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Martha Huizenga" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:47 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
>
>
>> We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
>> couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a
>> place to recycle this?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Martha
>> --
>>
>> Martha Huizenga
>> DC Access, LLC
>> 202-546-5898
>> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
>> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
>>
>> /*
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer



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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Chuck McCown - 3]

Not worth shipping unless you have a whole bunch.
Look up in your local yellow pages "metal recyclers" or scrap metal dealers.
They might take it off your hands, perhaps giving you a few dollars.  The 
problem is the ratio of insulation to copper.
Too much plastic, not enough copper.  If you were the type to ignore 
environmental concerns, you could toss it on a bonfire to burn off the 
plastic and rake out the copper.  That is how all the old scrap dealers did 
it.

- Original Message - 
From: "Martha Huizenga" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?


> We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a
> couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a
> place to recycle this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Martha
> -- 
>
> Martha Huizenga
> DC Access, LLC
> 202-546-5898
> */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
> Connecting the Capitol Hill Community
>
> /*
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> 




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Re: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[eje]

Checked you local recycling places? One local to me will take it for free. The 
other a bit further away I think gave us like 15c or something per pound 
(plastic and all) when we had some incorrectly built cat5 cabling (almost 40k 
feet on spools). Not sure about the exact price since its now well over a year 
since we sold the cabling. Hmm don't even recall what they paid for the pure 
copper scrap we sold to them less then 2 months ago. Lol

Would assume they would also take cable not on spool and shorter cablings. 

/Eje
--Original Message--
From: Martha Huizenga
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List
ReplyTo: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?
Sent: Jan 1, 2009 10:47

We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a 
couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a 
place to recycle this?

Thanks

Martha
-- 

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
Connecting the Capitol Hill Community

/*




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[WISPA] Does anyone recycle cable?

[Martha Huizenga]

We've been keeping our used ethernet cable for recycling. I found a 
couple of companies on the Internet, but no response. Does anyone have a 
place to recycle this?

Thanks

Martha
-- 

Martha Huizenga
DC Access, LLC
202-546-5898
*/Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/
Connecting the Capitol Hill Community

/*




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Re: [WISPA] Yikes, No Happy New years for SkyWi

[Jeff Broadwick]

Global domination? 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Yikes, No Happy New years for SkyWi

First Oneconnectip and now SkyWi in the same day? What is QWest's game plan
here?

George Rogato wrote:
> http://sev.prnewswire.com/internet-technology/20081231/LA5510531122008
> -1.html
>
> The network of SkyWi, Inc., New Mexico's largest independently owned 
> and operated ISP, was shut down by Qwest, affecting tens of thousands 
> of internet and phone customers among six states.
>
>
> Not sure if anyone seen this posted on the isp-wireless list
>
>
> --
> --
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --
> --
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>   

--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author -
"Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic.
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