Re: [WISPA] Partnership Agreements
My rules are: Make it performance based Make sure what he is bringing to the table is equitable to the proposed share of the company Try to talk out exit strategy, where you are taking it, how you want to go and see if that matches up to what your new partner wants to do. This all depends on the business structure you have setup (which you havent mentioned) but I assume it is an LLC or Corporation for your state, make sure it is in writing. Watch this video if you want: http://vimeo.com/6950199 Good luck. -Israel Robert West wrote: I've had as few people approach me in the recent past wanting to partner up with me and to be honest, I can really use someone to carry half the load. I'm leery, however of getting screwed. (My father was in business for years with one partner and after they took on another they all got screwed to the point they were out of business) A requirement of a partner, for me, would be someone buying in with enough cash to grow the company to carry the extra weight of the new guy. The ones in the past turned out to be flakes with only dollar signs in their eyes. Not a good fit for me, I'm not about cash in my pocket, that comes with doing a good job and someone talking about money all the time scares the hell out of me. I now have a guy who looks good. Has the assets and interest. Has 3 small towers in parts in his barn, he has a barn converted to an office, construction equipment, trailers, etc. He understands there won't be any money flowing in his pocket for probably a year due to the expansion we're doing. He says that's fine. He also has the billing and general paperwork experience and background. (I absolutely hate dealing with the money and paperwork) Looks good so far. The construction equipment would be a help, no more begging things from farmers and making deals to get a hole dug. His current gig is as an electrical engineer, travels around the world as a contractor overseeing the repair and programming of robotics as well as the installation of the equipment. He says he's tired of being gone all the time and wants to stay in one area in a field that will be somewhat related and complicated enough that he won't get bored. Hm.. I've been to his home a few times, even put in a private wireless connection between him and his neighbor a mile away. Seems like a decent guy. Now he wants to sit down and work things out on paper. Any advice on things to cover my ass on? Things some of you wished you had down on paper when you started out? I'm not a partner kinda guy, my business plan is always in my head, I make much of it up as I go along and I jump in and just do things myself so this is new territory.(However, my total lack of organization is due to the previously stated operation of the business plan) I know some will yell to not take on a partner and I'd be one of them, believe me. That's why I've fought them off so long. But with a larger network coming online and eyes for even more expansion, it's looking good to me. (We currently only have a little less than 200 subs but anticipate twice if not 3 times that to come online in 2010) I just don't want to be out in the cold or screwed over due to my ability to trust. I'll never give up more than 50%, won't happen, but there are many ways people can screw others. It all sounds like picking the right person for marriage. (I have a bad track record in that too!!! ) Do ya think maybe him and I should just kinda date for awhile before we make the commitment? What would be considered first base in this kind of thing? Configuring a CPE after a few dates then moving on to a customer installation then if it all goes well, take the plunge and climb a tower together? Weird. Thanks. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
AFAIK your assertion that NAT/DHCP - has no way to know is not entirely correct. Just how most Cable companies require you to register the MAC address of your modem to tie to your account (DHCP has logs you know), University students sign up for dorm internet using their mac address (which they sometimes rewrite onto their modem), but someone's name is still on the 'account.' This is how I think those 'high exposure' for DMCA (especially university) handle DMCA to Violator lookups. One does not need to open up wireshark and start logging traffic for awhile. Sufficient logs with enough detail (IP MAC + cross reference against account holder) accurate timestamps should be enough to identify who is who at what time without violating your customer's privacy of their data. -I Jerry Richardson wrote: OK so let's play out the scenario. Studio wants ISP send a letter to the customer ISP is NAT/DHCP - has no way to know Studio gets subpoena What now? At this point LEA is involved which demands cooperation. If the network is open WiFi, then there truly is no way to know. If the network is fixed installation, then the ISP could provide the information. So assuming it's a fixed installation, the ISP sets up a server with Wireshark or other packet capture and stores that data for1 day, 1 week, 1 month? At this point is the ISP breaking any privacy laws of customers that are NOT named in the subpoena? Not if the customer's TOA indicated that their Internet traffic MAY be stored and analyzed under legal request by LEA. Mind you this is all hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand the potential impact and exposire on the part of the ISP. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement So what does the law require? It doesn't. Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, then ISPs need to be provided as such. Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that the I have an open WiFi don't blame me case still works. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much
[WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
@Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :). I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. I wonder if it was environment based rather than 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this evening I might setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the field with volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well to testing plans). -Israel os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant simulate right now is distance. As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work better, I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play nicely. OT: What is CCQ? -Israel Josh Luthman wrote: It is very weird isn't it? Vi is better the Emacs. On 11/22/09, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz sector. Winbox shows this: Emacs! Mike At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from 54mbit to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in half or quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only improve unless you're using all available bandwidth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: First, you should have a better signal than -70 at 5Miles away with a 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with a 19dB panel. Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz is 1/4 available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit aggregate (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected at 54MBit, which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin (10dB). Also, the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs 24MBps(28dBm), less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or 36Mbps, which at that rate your total available real case bandwidth is as little as 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely will make signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double from 10-5(total +6dBm). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola bars. In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. From what I hear if the environment had been polluted performance might have actually gone up with the narrower channels. From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet size or transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :). I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. I wonder if it was environment based rather than 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this evening I might setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the field with volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well to testing plans). -Israel os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
I think what he is trying to say that given a noise pattern on your 2.4ISM band, a 20MHz signal may be in that noise about lets say 25% of your bandwidth footprint. If you decide to drop down to 5MHz and move your center frequency right onto that noise then you might have just put yourself right on top of the noise. It would seem more susceptible to the noise even if you have the power to get over it. In my case; I'm replacing a network that is a 40MHz 802.11G WDS network that works 'decently' 800kbps-3mbps if you have a good day, an 100kbps on a bad day. It makes sense when we dropped down to a 20MHz channel that the performance dropped. *There are other problems that we are addressing, thermal resets, no QoS, no firmware upgrades, cheap equipment, bad design etc,.* This is in Honduras. We noted other ISM2.4 users at around 3km away using a 9dBi omni vpol using WiSPY 2.4x approximately -81 to -78 dbm in some spots on the 2.4Band. HPOL made it much quieter. -Israel Mike wrote: I should think the opposite is true. Halve the signal, improve signal to noise 3 dB. Half it again and the improvement is 6 dB signal to noise. Should give you way more margin. My tests prove that out. At 08:44 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interference than 20MHz. On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com wrote: I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant simulate right now is distance. As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work better, I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play nicely. OT: What is CCQ? -Israel Josh Luthman wrote: It is very weird isn't it? Vi is better the Emacs. On 11/22/09, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz sector. Winbox shows this: Emacs! Mike At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from 54mbit to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in half or quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only improve unless you're using all available bandwidth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: First, you should have a better signal than -70 at 5Miles away with a 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with a 19dB panel. Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz is 1/4 available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit aggregate (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected at 54MBit, which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin (10dB). Also, the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs 24MBps(28dBm), less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or 36Mbps, which at that rate your total available real case bandwidth is as little as 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely will make signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double from 10-5(total +6dBm). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola bars. In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. From what I hear if the environment had been polluted performance might have actually gone up with the narrower channels. From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet size or transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :). I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. I wonder
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
No. I didn't upgrade firmware on Saturday. I checked firmware on Friday and upgraded the units. Files used are: NanoStation2-v3.5.build4494.bin Bullet2HP-v3.5.build4494.bin I'm gonna go setup the gear this afternoon. Robert West wrote: Newest as in the firmware that came out on Saturday? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Israel Lopez-LISTS Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, help with mapping stuff
From attending an OpenStreetMap lecture, I recommend GPS Babel. http://www.gpsbabel.org/ Going to Google Earth (KML/KMZ) is a good idea. -Izzy Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm working on a trail system for our local Chamber of Commerce. We know the routes to be used etc. I've got a Garmin Etrex Summit and we've used that with TopoUSA to map the routes. I can't seem to figure out how to get that data into a format that others can use to download into their own GPS units and come out here to follow our routes. Ideally I'd like to find a way to get the GPS data off of the GPS unit and upload that to a file that others could import into their own GPS, Google maps, TopoUSA or whatever. Or, I could draw out the routes on Google maps, but I don't know how to do that or to export that data to something others could download. Anyone here good with such projects? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Tower Climbing Safety Classes
Hello There, I'm looking for some basic tower climbing safety courses. I found one online, directed by ComTrain. http://comtrainusa.com/courses-available/certification-courses/basic-2-days-mainmenu-27 But I would like to see what else is out there. Anyone know of similar companies/courses available? Preferably in California. Thank you kindly. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Miami Vendor
Hey All, Im looking for a reputable Miami 2.4Ghz/5.8Ghz ISM unlicensed vendor. Probably going to get some radios + antennas. Online would be good, but not required. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Project Management Software - Online
I'm currently running a test project with Basecamp, been so far impressed. http://www.basecamphq.com/ -Israel Gino Villarini wrote: Anyone with a recomendation ? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
Whats your life expectancy on those polyphasers? Their website states they are good for multiple strikes, but just wondering about the durability. etc,. -Israel David Hulsebus wrote: Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with gas tubes in them. Too much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying polyphaser's and never looked back Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hulsebus Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out in the past. Gas tubes have just blown. Dave RickG wrote: On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a fuse and either work or not? -RickG On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx. I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors. Not sure how they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to me. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation Hi, I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector and see if that helps. Travis Michael Baird wrote: Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level? Antenna Height ft Downtilt Angle ° Vertical Beamwidth ° Results Inner -3dB Radius 0.1 Miles Sweet spot 0.2 Miles Outer -3dB Radius 5.24Miles I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he could with his inclinometer. Regards Michael Baird Where are you running the calcs? I use http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation Gino, 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part though. Regards Michael Baird I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height? The beamwidth of the maxrad sector? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized, adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile radius. Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw. CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18 dbi. RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by 16-20 db. I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the first tower we've used them on. Regards Michael Baird I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue. What antennas did you use and where are they pointed? Also, what output are the radios? If you use 600mw radios on the ap side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference. Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea, especially when colocated like this. I usually only run 15 to 17dB at the ap's. Most of my sectors are 13dB. Yeah, I have customers at 18 miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way. There are other customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but that's caused by other issues :-). We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the need to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise levels. Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed? How much downtilt
[WISPA] SNMP Counters Available from Radios
Hey All, I just had a thought re: 900 Mhz across water thread. Which radio vendors(models) have SNMP support for counters like SNR, Noise, RSSI, Radio Errors etc,. Most ive found only show Linux interface statistics, rather than the radio characteristics. Or did you roll your own scripts to scrape data from Telnet/HTTP interfaces into your RRDTool systems (Cacti, STG, etc,.) I'm thinking about 2.4Ghz equipment. Have a good 4th of July! Slap those burgers and dogs on the grill! -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] NTIA Seeks Volunteers to Review Broadband Applications
Did you guys hear about this? http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/070909-ntia-seeks-volunteers-to-review.html?page=1 Some people think its scary, but I think if done with enough guidance Volunteer Reviewers could cull a lot of crap out of this program applications. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] http://www.ilient.com/
As an aside, Kayako Support Suite is pretty good, used it at a few places and implemented at the last place I worked at. http://www.kayako.com/solutions/supportsuite/ http://www.kayako.com/purchasing/pricing.php Ryan Ghering wrote: I found it a week or so ago and have started to test it out in our office and its pretty sweet. I've got a price quote in for a full version myself. Will be interesting to find out what its gona cost. Ryan On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 5:21 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: That covers 100 customers. I'm wondering what the cost for more is. Thanks! -RickG On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Ryan Gheringrgher...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.sysaid.com/free-help-desk-software.htm There is the free edition.. On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, more helpful would be their prciing :) -RickG On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Jerry Richardsonjrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: thought this might be useful for some. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lightning 1, Bullet 0
No lightning protection on the little guy? I imagine not since they were cheap. -IL Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: For your vicarious enjoyment of nature vs. Ubiquiti products http://www.thelar.com/gallery2/v/Wireless/Miscellaneous/ Won't be doing an RMA on this unit. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School
OpenDNS works in a pinch. However filters for all of DNS requests originating from one public IP (Students Admins)... you could go Hardware Based Filtering... barracuda and or cymphonix boxes as well. -Israel Scott Carullo wrote: I need a web content filter for K-12 school. Paid Subscription ok. Please let me know what good products there are for this requirement. Need asap. Thanks... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School
I have to agree. It seem that these hardware boxes that try to do 'all in one' services (Routing, NAT, Firewall, AV, Content-Filtering, Spam)... seem to fall on their face. I know of a consultant buddy of mine who implemented it, and hated every second of it. He is still cursing at it when it fails (AD Connector stops working requiring manual resets of the box, etc,). -IL os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I had some very bad experiences with SonicWall and their service/ support. For one thing their basic content filter package was useless because it did not block proxy sites. They expected us to pay hundreds more a year for their premium filter package just to get the functionality of their basic package to work. Discussions with customer service/tech support fell on deaf ears. There were heated discussions on the forum (everyone was fed up with SonicWall) but SonicWall wouldn't budge. We got a little response from them when I suggested to the forum that perhaps this topic would be a good start for a class action lawsuit. I was using one of their lowest end products at the time so maybe they give better support for their higher end products. However I would never use SonicWall again. There's many other competitors out there. There's a few products which I don't recall the name of but they're specifically geared to scholastic/library settings. For our filtering needs we switched to Untangle. Another we used and liked was Astaro. Greg On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: Sonicwall has some outstanding products as far as an all-in-one appliance for firewall, content filtering, spam, virus, etc etc. I have one in place for a school and our local library. Make sure you get one with enough horse-power. A small school may work fine with a TZ-200 or TZ-190, but you get very large, and you will quickly end up needing more than that. Be glad to quote you out one if you needed. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:35 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School I need a web content filter for K-12 school. Paid Subscription ok. Please let me know what good products there are for this requirement. Need asap. Thanks... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Client Internet Filtering Upgrade - WAS: Content Filter Suggestion for School
FYI.. Not every site will want to have the same filter settings. Since you can define multiple networks in OpenDNS, the IP will have to originate from that network to get a specific set of content-filtering. If the request originates from the local DNS server, then you've just inadvertently applied those settings to everyone who might query that DNS server. So you would have to force these 'filtered' networks to only request DNS from OpenDNS servers, and make sure each client has a public IP. -IL Josh Luthman wrote: I just thought about how to get around this and I wanted to share my thoughts. If a location needs this filtering and you use opendns you'll want to drop all forwarded DNS traffic. Force everyone to use an internal DNS server which in turn looks up via OpenDNS. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: On this same subject, anyone offering upgrades for filtered Internet service to their clients? Anyone using OpenDNS to do this? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ccrum Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:29 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School OpenDNS is approved for this...best thing is it is free. Cameron Scott Carullo wrote: I need a web content filter for K-12 school. Paid Subscription ok. Please let me know what good products there are for this requirement. Need asap. Thanks... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] AM radio tower
Michael, If you get any responses off-list, I would be happy to hear. I have a similar situation, but down in Honduras. I posted nearly an exact question to yours, and the consensus was. 1) Install Noise Suppression, and Shielded Twisted Pair 2) Install only when the Tower is unpowered In my situation we want to use the 1KW AM Radio because of how tall the tower is, our stuff is 2.4 as well but we plan on 5.8 soon. -Israel Michael Baird wrote: *I've recently been approached about expanding our service to an AM tower. We would be using 2.4 gear, what kind of problems would I need to watch out for when deploying on an AM tower. They said it was broadcasting at 1KW and the entire tower is hot. It is in a really good area, is a nice tower and the price is minimal, but I want to avoid as many service problems as possible by knowing what I'm getting into beforehand. Regards Michael Baird * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
Hi Shaddi, You know what would be cool. Is a few things * Use the features of Radio Mobile as a basis for radio-propogation o SRTM3 Terrain Mapping o Flexible Radio Network Topology (VoiceNet, Master/Slave, etc,.) o Point to point link analysis o Visual Coverage o Might be pie in the sky, but at least a good direction feature wise, implementation is up to you. * ANND... Add some wiki style features like a database of Radios, Antennas o Radios + Spectrum + Power + Sensitivity + etc,. o Antennas + Gain + Panel Type + Images? + Antenna Spread (Polar map) But I think the easiest thing for you would be to start with the SRTM3 dataset, see if you can render that into a browser so people could do basic LOS functionality. The added plus for us (US being an NGO doing field installations) would adding extra data points to the terrain data to get a more accurate reading. (Some areas only get 90m resolution 'i think' and the USA gets 30m resolution.) So if we could load GPS trails that would show us the difference between SRTM and the GPS readings we could do better simulations. Thats my 2c in the pot. -Israel Shaddi Hasan wrote: Howdy WISPA! Just joined today but wanted to chime in -- some students here at UNC Chapel Hill are working on a browser-based link planning tool as a semester project. It will be released as open-source at the end of the semester, so we'd like it to be useful not only for our projects but for the community at large. While primarily geared towards community wireless projects, it'd be great if it could be useful for the professional WISP community. So, if you have any feedback on what features you'd like to see in such a tool, lessons you all have learned that should be incorporated into its design, or the concept generally, please contact me. To the OP, check back in December and we might have something to offer you! Shaddi On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Sucks. Anyone using a good software app that will plot the links and give me the easy thumbs up or thumbs down? Sorry to be a pain with all these questions. It's been too hectic and I just don't have the time to sit for 2 days evaluating crap software. I'd rather be told what's good by real users. Thanks. Organite. It's not just for breakfast anymore. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
Actually... If you have the lastest radio mobile it is able to automatically pull down the SRTM3 files. What I did in one case where I didnt have the SRTM file, and I was going to be out in the field I downloaded the files by hand from this site. http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/North_America/ OR from Nasa Direct. And (unzipped) put them in a directory for radio mobile (Same directory as described in the map properties window) And actually I just re-ran my radiomobile program, and its automatically grabbing the SRTM Data (140 sets to be exact) This is what I have setup for my 'internet options' Im running version 9.8.1 Robert West wrote: Okay, I went through it here and getting the terrain maps is indeed the place where I give up. Anyone have a good step by step to get the map in the thing?? I totally believe the 4 hour thing. My issue is, every hour... Are you STILL up?! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software It takes 4hrs in the idle of the night with zero interruptions. Once you do that it will gel. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software You know, I haven't a clue! It looks simple, heck yes! Everyone says it's easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it. Now you also have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and the wife all wanting something. Time was not well spent when I've tried it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Robert West wrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you only have to do that once.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
Doh. Forgot cant use HTML email and pasted images. I will see if I cant make a PDF guide or so on how to get terrain data. -Israel Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Actually... If you have the lastest radio mobile it is able to automatically pull down the SRTM3 files. What I did in one case where I didnt have the SRTM file, and I was going to be out in the field I downloaded the files by hand from this site. http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/North_America/ OR from Nasa Direct. And (unzipped) put them in a directory for radio mobile (Same directory as described in the map properties window) And actually I just re-ran my radiomobile program, and its automatically grabbing the SRTM Data (140 sets to be exact) This is what I have setup for my 'internet options' Im running version 9.8.1 Robert West wrote: Okay, I went through it here and getting the terrain maps is indeed the place where I give up. Anyone have a good step by step to get the map in the thing?? I totally believe the 4 hour thing. My issue is, every hour... Are you STILL up?! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software It takes 4hrs in the idle of the night with zero interruptions. Once you do that it will gel. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software You know, I haven't a clue! It looks simple, heck yes! Everyone says it's easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it. Now you also have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and the wife all wanting something. Time was not well spent when I've tried it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Robert West wrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you only have to do that once.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software
Actually I just found this: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/14302 Seems to sum up what I was trying to say =D -Israel Robert West wrote: Thanks! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Israel Lopez-LISTS Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Doh. Forgot cant use HTML email and pasted images. I will see if I cant make a PDF guide or so on how to get terrain data. -Israel Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Actually... If you have the lastest radio mobile it is able to automatically pull down the SRTM3 files. What I did in one case where I didnt have the SRTM file, and I was going to be out in the field I downloaded the files by hand from this site. http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/North_America/ OR from Nasa Direct. And (unzipped) put them in a directory for radio mobile (Same directory as described in the map properties window) And actually I just re-ran my radiomobile program, and its automatically grabbing the SRTM Data (140 sets to be exact) This is what I have setup for my 'internet options' Im running version 9.8.1 Robert West wrote: Okay, I went through it here and getting the terrain maps is indeed the place where I give up. Anyone have a good step by step to get the map in the thing?? I totally believe the 4 hour thing. My issue is, every hour... Are you STILL up?! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software It takes 4hrs in the idle of the night with zero interruptions. Once you do that it will gel. Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications Sent Mobile (Probably one handed) From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software You know, I haven't a clue! It looks simple, heck yes! Everyone says it's easy but I'll be darned if I can't get anything out of it. Now you also have to understand, when I try to work with it I have 3 kids, a cat and the wife all wanting something. Time was not well spent when I've tried it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Link Planning Software Robert West wrote: What are you folks using to verify the viability of a link before you plan the build? I've tried using Radio Mobile but I'll be darned if I can't get that thing to work even with the step by step instructions. I've been finding myself just plotting elevations all the way along the link in Google Earth. Where are you getting hung up? Radio Mobile is probably the best free tool you're gonna get, and once set up, works pretty well. (The trickiest part probably is getting the terrain data you need, but you only have to do that once.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
[WISPA] Moisture Abatement Techniques
Hey All, So how do you guys avoid getting water/moisture in your gear? I'm going to be standing up a 9 end-point network, with some Ubiquiti (Bullet2, Nanostation) gear, Directional H-Pol Omni antennas, Polyphasers, Ethernet Lightning Arrestors, etc,. I'm not going to be able to travel to the site again in at least a year; its a rainy part of the world, so I'd like to prevent any damage to the gear as much as possible. Anything I should do to prevent moisture from getting into the gear? Or other protective measures... Teflon on the coax connectors, Electrical Tape on the Edges of the gear? If there was a place I could see some pictures of the implementations that would be good too. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Moisture Abatement Techniques
Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions, looks like I got my shopping list for the Honduras install. We are leaving March 12th, and if anyone is interested I can put pictures up of the install the kids we are helping. Thanks again, WISPA is a great community and I love being part of it. -Israel Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, So how do you guys avoid getting water/moisture in your gear? I'm going to be standing up a 9 end-point network, with some Ubiquiti (Bullet2, Nanostation) gear, Directional H-Pol Omni antennas, Polyphasers, Ethernet Lightning Arrestors, etc,. I'm not going to be able to travel to the site again in at least a year; its a rainy part of the world, so I'd like to prevent any damage to the gear as much as possible. Anything I should do to prevent moisture from getting into the gear? Or other protective measures... Teflon on the coax connectors, Electrical Tape on the Edges of the gear? If there was a place I could see some pictures of the implementations that would be good too. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Modified Sine Inverter Acceptable
Hey Guys, For running commodity routers, radios, servers on a remote site, is using a modified sine wave acceptable? I have some electrical engineers at the site im working on thinking of putting in a modified sine inverter, and joining them up with a large battery cache. The question we raised was, will a modified sine wave be damaging/problematic for things like a Ubiquti Radio/POE Injector, small WRT54GL router, small switch, and two servers (300-400w each). Let me know. I searched the lists and found this, http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/2007-July/027900.html but I didnt see the impact on the equipment there, just UPSes. I am going from: [very dirty mains 90-120v] - [battery charger] - [battery bank] - [inverter] --- outlets, [Equipment Transformers] - [Equipment] Ideas? Other power engineers on site brought along a Chicago Electric Inverter #95596 - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=95596 -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?
How many HD Channels? 720p, 1080i? Is there coax running through the community? Just as a thought exercise, I may get a few HD ATSC Hardware Cards, some hefty boxes, and use VLC to convert the video into a multicast stream, bridge it across the lake/valley, and reconstitute it into something useful on the other end. Depending on how much bandwidth you can get (More the better + future growth), probably looking at at 100MPS link. (If you decide to compress the channels to lets say 15mbps). I heard for awhile that my local cable company was using Winboxes + VLC and Video Capture cards to encode and distribute the analog video for their digital STB for awhile. (Unknown source) -Israel AJ wrote: Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP wireless? We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits at the base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull down the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters however are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both OTA broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is (about 2 miles across a lake). Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this? We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our lowest bid was almost 28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project. Suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] State Education Networks?
I had the chance to befriend a high-school IT guy (Quite stellar IT guy too), and I learned a lot from the processes there. The education system in CA will historically go for Wired/Fiber based plants. Usually due to FUD, about security, reliability, blah blah blah. I hope you can get them to change their mind, especially considering the price difference. Their big hang up may be a political opponent who may respond to any 'public' network problems as: You see, you get what you pay for, you were cheap and tried (gasp) wireless! Out here in California, most is T1s/fiber direct into local network hubs those are usually school districts-HQs (smaller loops that way), then those link up to a bigger regional hub, and finally to the main hub; access to the internet originates from a single point for the whole network (afaik, I only know so-cal education nets). They do this so they can implement district wide/state wide filtering, management, etc,. -Israel Kevin Owen wrote: The State I provide service in (Idaho) is in the process of building a Statewide Educational Network. I am interested in hearing from any of you are providing service in a State that has built a State Educational Network and if so, are local providers used to provide any of the last miles services to the schools? Idaho started by saying they would work with the local providers, however, now they have changed their tune and local providers are not given the opportunity to even bid on the service. Qwest is charging at least 3 - 5 times what any of the other local ISP's could or would charge for the same or more bandwidth. We are simply told we are not able to provide the service due to technical reasons, however, the State thus far has not defined what those technical reasons are. The difference in cost per year is in the millions. Our State IT group is also saying this is how it is done in other states to provide a quality and cost effective network. So does anybody provide any last mile services to any Statewide educational network? Thanks, Kevin First Step Internet, LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] HD Video across Wireless?
Well, This looks promising, I did a google search for ATSC to IP. http://www.computermodules.com/broadcast-systems/8VSB-ATSC-to-IP.html -Israel AJ wrote: At this point, there are a total of (6) ATSC carriers we're trying to pull down in 1080i. Once they're over on the other side of the lake, we can use narrowcast transmitters back from our old headend site back to the new headend where it can be distributed across fiber to the nodes then coax back in to the community. Know of any off the shelf options for ATSC or even just native HDMI/DVI HD video in to IP out? Windows Box *might* work but the concern would be failure in the winter where it would be located - either helo or snow cat to access October-May... On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Israel Lopez-LISTS ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com wrote: How many HD Channels? 720p, 1080i? Is there coax running through the community? Just as a thought exercise, I may get a few HD ATSC Hardware Cards, some hefty boxes, and use VLC to convert the video into a multicast stream, bridge it across the lake/valley, and reconstitute it into something useful on the other end. Depending on how much bandwidth you can get (More the better + future growth), probably looking at at 100MPS link. (If you decide to compress the channels to lets say 15mbps). I heard for awhile that my local cable company was using Winboxes + VLC and Video Capture cards to encode and distribute the analog video for their digital STB for awhile. (Unknown source) -Israel AJ wrote: Any suggestions for carrying HD Video (ATSC over-the-air) across IP wireless? We're trying to bridge coverage in to a community that literally sits at the base of a ridge line, blocking direct OTA reception. We already pull down the standard definition content by satellite; the local broadcasters however are not carried in HD. I do have a site that has line of sight to both OTA broadcasters (about 50 miles away) and the valley where the headend is (about 2 miles across a lake). Anyone encounter a need to stream video like this? We've looked at ASI transport across fiber but our lowest bid was almost 28k... Not quite in the scope of the budget for the project. Suggestions? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Channel Recommendation Gel Filled Ethernet
Hey Guys, Trying to choose the best channel for a new installation. http://ewbhonduras.tumblr.com/post/450395382/1hr-wispy-rf-2-4-capture-from-the-horizontal This is what I see, I attached the WiSPY along with a laptop, and mounted both on the tower we are planning on using for one hour. Then brought the laptop down. Any suggestions? Also, what is the best way to handle crimping gel-filled cat5e cable? We are having a heck of a time with the ends slipping off and the individual conductors slipping out. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Thank You to WISPA - Education Network in Honduras
Hey All, I wanted to thank the WISPA community for being quite helpful and generous. I have been leading a team to implement/replace an aging wireless network in Honduras for three schools and their volunteer homes. It has been a long year and a half, but it has paid off. They had 9 locations, 800kbps-3mbps throughput, 100-400ms latency, and +20% loss. Now they have: 9 Locations, 12mbps throughput, 1-4ms latency, between 0-2% packet loss at the schools, and 1-10% packet loss at the volunteer homes. In the year after our April 2009 assessment trip we spent time planning, designing, and running dry runs, we still had to adapt to what was 'on the ground.' It was a challenge properly grounding our 40meter tower, installing the equipment at the various locations, battling contractor costs, freak lightning storms, and a last minute show stopper with routing loops. In the end the schools have a better platform for education technology, and we hope to support them through the entire process of technology in the hands of the kids. I will be presenting the implementation story to a local user group here in Southern California, I will have the presentation recorded if you all are interested I will make the link available. As promised I have some implementation pictures to share. http://picasaweb.google.com/israel.lopez/HondurasAllPics# This was one of the first Wireless projects with Engineers Without Borders, we are quite proud of the people that have volunteered to help remotely, and in country. I personally would like to see more Technology Engineering projects in developing countries, so if you think you can help, visit one of your local EWB Professional chapters, talk to them, see if technology may be something their communities may need. http://ewb-usa.org/chapters.php. In support of technology projects/professionals in EWB I have created http://EWBTechies.org if you become a member, please join and let us know how you want to help! Special Thanks goes to: Ubiquiti Networks - Donated some radios helped us RMA a unit right before we left LAX WLANMall.com - For the WiSPY 2.4x that we won for our school Western Digital - Donation of USB Hard Drives for Backup of our Servers Critical Data Thank You, Israel Lopez WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
