AFAIK your assertion that "NAT/DHCP - has no way to know" is not entirely correct.
Just how most Cable companies require you to register the MAC address of your modem to tie to your account (DHCP has logs you know), University students sign up for dorm internet using their mac address (which they sometimes rewrite onto their modem), but someone's name is still on the 'account.' This is how I think those 'high exposure' for DMCA (especially university) handle DMCA to Violator lookups. One does not need to open up wireshark and start logging traffic for awhile. Sufficient logs with enough detail (IP & MAC + cross reference against account holder) & accurate timestamps should be enough to identify who is who at what time without violating your customer's privacy of their data. -I Jerry Richardson wrote: > OK so let's play out the scenario. > > Studio wants ISP send a letter to the customer > ISP is NAT/DHCP - has no way to know > Studio gets subpoena > > What now? At this point LEA is involved which demands cooperation. > If the network is open WiFi, then there truly is no way to know. > If the network is fixed installation, then the ISP "could" provide the > information. > > So assuming it's a fixed installation, the ISP sets up a server with > Wireshark or other packet capture and stores that data for....1 day, 1 week, > 1 month? > > At this point is the ISP breaking any privacy laws of customers that are NOT > named in the subpoena? Not if the customer's TOA indicated that their > Internet traffic MAY be stored and analyzed under legal request by LEA. > > > Mind you this is all hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand the > potential impact and exposire on the part of the ISP. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:48 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement > > >> So what does the law require? >> > > It doesn't. > > >> Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public >> > IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? > > If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, > then ISPs need to be provided as such. > > Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that > the "I have an open WiFi don't blame me" case still works. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --- Albert Einstein > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson <jrichard...@aircloud.com > >> wrote: >> > > >> good point. >> >> So what does the law require? >> >> Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public >> IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >> >> That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last >> week? last month? >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >> --- Albert Einstein >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson < >> jrichard...@aircloud.com >> >>> wrote: >>> >>> So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the >>> >> offending >> >>> customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. >>> >>> I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for >>> >> the >> >>> server delivering copyrighted information. >>> >>> The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. >>> >>> Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to >>> find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. >>> >>> Maybe there is an easier way. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Nick Olsen >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >>> >>> Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came >>> >> from, >> >>> When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could >>> become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers >>> >> at >> >>> a customer. >>> >>> Nick Olsen >>> Brevard Wireless >>> (321) 205-1100 x106 >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> From: "os10ru...@gmail.com" <os10ru...@gmail.com> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >>> >>> What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems >>> like then more of the burden might fall on you. >>> >>> GReg >>> >>> On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: >>> >>> >>>> To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to >>>> protect "their" copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since >>>> they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they >>>> really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the >>>> copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work >>>> sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from >>>> contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. >>>> >>>> -Adam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West < >>>> >> robert.w...@just-micro.com >> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it >>>>> >>> along >>> >>>>> and forget it. Not my job. >>>>> >>>>> Bob- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> >> On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Chuck Hogg >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >>>>> >>>>> Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio >>>>> letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Chuck Hogg >>>>> Shelby Broadband >>>>> 502-722-9292 >>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com >>>>> http://www.shelbybb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> >> On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Adam Goodman >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement >>>>> >>>>> We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from >>>>> "Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation" about a download movie from >>>>> BitTorrent. >>>>> >>>>> They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware >>>>> of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you >>>>> handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another >>>>> path? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Adam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>> ---- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> ---- >>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> ---- >>> >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> ---- >>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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