Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
+1... 60 minutes even made them look like the bad guy On 1/26/2013 8:04 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: I would never use any Huawei anything unless you like deal with a bunch of unscrupulous people. They'd also be LTE or WiMAX. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Josh Luthman" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" < wispawirel...@ics-il.net > wrote: There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Jenkins" < m...@smarterbroadband.net > To: us...@wug.cc, "WISPA General List" < wireless@wispa.org > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:36:26 PM Subject: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone successfully deploying something else to service both residential and business customers? Thanks, - Matt ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Thanks Greg Osborn Tech Support and Field Service Manager OnlyInternet.Net 1.800.363.0989 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Best complete info will come via the Feb 12 webinar. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 28, 2013, at 9:42 AM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > So how can we get some solid info on this thing? It looks really > impressive... but there are so many questions! > > On 1/28/13 9:25 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: >> Don't think that's the case >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:51 AM, "Matt Hoppes" >> wrote: >> >>> I knew it was too good to be true... >>> >>> "Bridge and Router Modes" - Require additional licenses. >>> >>> :( >>> >>> On 1/27/13 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >>>> The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector >>>> or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. >>>> I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing >>>> examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit >>>> me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. >>>> >>>> Patrick Leary >>>> >>>> Alvarion >>>> >>>> 727.501.3735 >>>> >>>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM >>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >>>> >>>> I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. >>>> >>>> I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT >>>> CPE? >>>> >>>> How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? >>>> >>>> Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? >>>> >>>> Pricing? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >>>> >>>>Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. >>>>Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor >>>>CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a >>>>lot older! >>>> >>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> >>>>On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" >>>>mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >>>>licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from >>>>yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? >>>> >>>>Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>>On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >>>>mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different >>>>from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware >>>>(filters and such), so I don't yet have North American >>>>anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not >>>>WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like >>>>smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. >>>>The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector >>>>versions. >>>> >>>>The specs on the dual band sector are: >>>> >>>>2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >>>> >>>>5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >>>> >>>>Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet >>>>the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >>>> >>>> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >>>>5 GHz: 49 dBm >>>> >>>>Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to >>>>get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I >>>>know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting >>>>stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his >>>>house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story >>>>porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I >>>>
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Any GPS sync available for high density frequency re-use? On 01/26/2013 02:07 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner wrote: Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? Latency results average/max/min on longest shot? Do they only use plain vanilla Wifi or some scheduled TDMA variant (like UBNT AirMAX or Proxim WARP or old Karlnet stuff)? Max raw TCP throughput per sector? How many deployments? Anything like this would be very valuable. I liked to hearing about all Wavion was supposed to be able to do when I saw them at a show but I
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
So how can we get some solid info on this thing? It looks really impressive... but there are so many questions! On 1/28/13 9:25 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: > Don't think that's the case > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:51 AM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > >> I knew it was too good to be true... >> >> "Bridge and Router Modes" - Require additional licenses. >> >> :( >> >> On 1/27/13 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >>> The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector >>> or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. >>> I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing >>> examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit >>> me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. >>> >>> Patrick Leary >>> >>> Alvarion >>> >>> 727.501.3735 >>> >>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM >>> *To:* WISPA General List >>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >>> >>> I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. >>> >>> I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT >>> CPE? >>> >>> How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? >>> >>> Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? >>> >>> Pricing? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >>> >>> Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. >>> Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor >>> CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a >>> lot older! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" >>> mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote: >>> >>> So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >>> licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from >>> yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >>> mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different >>> from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware >>> (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American >>> anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not >>> WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like >>> smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. >>> The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector >>> versions. >>> >>> The specs on the dual band sector are: >>> >>> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >>> >>> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >>> >>> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet >>> the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >>> >>> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >>> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >>> >>> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to >>> get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I >>> know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting >>> stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his >>> house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story >>> porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I >>> should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is >>> bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help >>> the range too. >>> >>> Patrick Leary >>> >>> Alvarion >>> >>> 727.501.3735 >>> >>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behal
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
If configured that way, yes. If not, no. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:59 AM, "Adam Greene" wrote: > I have the same question as to whether non-proprietary devices like > cellphones and laptops will be able to connect to the AP. For example, > in a municipal deployment where the town wants to give all residents > low-cost or free Internet access. > > On 1/27/2013 7:57 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> I'm assuming that since stadiums are a market, these are traditional WiFi, >> since you can't very well plug a USB dongle into a smartphone. >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Patrick Leary" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:21:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> >> >> >> >> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous >> ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet >> have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not >> WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, >> indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason >> why we are doing the sector versions. >> >> >> >> The specs on the dual band sector are: >> >> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >> >> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >> >> >> >> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC >> requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >> >> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >> >> >> >> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of >> range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my >> engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away >> from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I >> am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to >> be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that >> should help the range too. >> >> >> >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Alvarion >> >> 727.501.3735 >> >> >> >> >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> >> >> >> Patrick, >> >> >> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running >> 3X3? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g >> version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate >> (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 >> radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >> >> >> >> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna >> elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. >> >> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with >> each band 3x3. >> >> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >> >> >> >> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >> >> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form >> factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. >> It is a really effective little box. >> >> There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. >> >> There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. >> >> >> >> I have to check as there may be others. >> >> >> >> Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. >> >> >> >> They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all >> the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This >> helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radi
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Don't think that's the case Sent from my iPhone On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:51 AM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > I knew it was too good to be true... > > "Bridge and Router Modes" - Require additional licenses. > > :( > > On 1/27/13 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >> The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector >> or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. >> I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing >> examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit >> me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Alvarion >> >> 727.501.3735 >> >> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM >> *To:* WISPA General List >> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. >> >> I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT >> CPE? >> >> How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? >> >> Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? >> >> Pricing? >> >> -- >> >> On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >> >>Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. >>Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor >>CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a >>lot older! >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >> >>On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" >>mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote: >> >>So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >>licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from >>yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? >> >>Sent from my iPad >> >> >>On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >>mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> >>wrote: >> >>I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different >>from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware >>(filters and such), so I don't yet have North American >>anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not >>WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like >>smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. >>The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector >>versions. >> >>The specs on the dual band sector are: >> >>2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >> >>5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >> >>Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet >>the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >> >>2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >>5 GHz: 49 dBm >> >>Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to >>get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I >>know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting >>stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his >>house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story >>porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I >>should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is >>bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help >>the range too. >> >>Patrick Leary >> >>Alvarion >> >>727.501.3735 >> >>*From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org >><mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >>[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes >>*Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >>*To:* WISPA General List >>*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >>Patrick, >> >>Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the >>tower running 3X3? >> >>Sent from my iPad >> >> >>On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary >>><mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> wrote: >> >>
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
This is one of the larger questions in my head what is the market target here? Is it broadband from a tower? Or WiFi hotspot with high density? On 1/28/13 9:02 AM, Adam Greene wrote: > I have the same question as to whether non-proprietary devices like > cellphones and laptops will be able to connect to the AP. For example, > in a municipal deployment where the town wants to give all residents > low-cost or free Internet access. > > On 1/27/2013 7:57 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> I'm assuming that since stadiums are a market, these are traditional WiFi, >> since you can't very well plug a USB dongle into a smartphone. >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Patrick Leary" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:21:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> >> >> >> >> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous >> ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet >> have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not >> WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, >> indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason >> why we are doing the sector versions. >> >> >> >> The specs on the dual band sector are: >> >> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >> >> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >> >> >> >> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC >> requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >> >> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >> >> >> >> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of >> range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my >> engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away >> from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I >> am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to >> be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that >> should help the range too. >> >> >> >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Alvarion >> >> 727.501.3735 >> >> >> >> >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> >> >> >> Patrick, >> >> >> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running >> 3X3? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g >> version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate >> (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 >> radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >> >> >> >> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna >> elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. >> >> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with >> each band 3x3. >> >> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >> >> >> >> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >> >> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form >> factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. >> It is a really effective little box. >> >> There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. >> >> There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. >> >> >> >> I have to check as there may be others. >> >> >> >> Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. >> >> >> >> They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all >> the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This >> helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
If Ubnt works it's either wifi or airmax. It ain't no airmax... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Adam Greene wrote: > I have the same question as to whether non-proprietary devices like > cellphones and laptops will be able to connect to the AP. For example, > in a municipal deployment where the town wants to give all residents > low-cost or free Internet access. > > On 1/27/2013 7:57 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > I'm assuming that since stadiums are a market, these are traditional > WiFi, since you can't very well plug a USB dongle into a smartphone. > > > > > > > > - > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Patrick Leary" > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:21:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the > previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I > don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international > examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like > smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market > is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. > > > > > > > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > > > > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > > > > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > > > > > > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC > requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > > > > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > > > > > > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea > of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source > (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile > away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story > porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume > mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as > well, so that should help the range too. > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Leary > > > > Alvarion > > > > 727.501.3735 > > > > > > > > > > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > > > > > > > Patrick, > > > > > > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower > running 3X3? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy > b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature > 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > > > > > > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 > antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. > > > > WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again > with each band 3x3. > > > > WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 > diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. > > > > > > > > Yes John, we have client devices, among them: > > > > Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small > form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts > indoor. It is a really effective little box. > > > > There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. > > > > There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. > > > > > > > > I have to check as there may be others. > > > > > > > > Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. > > > > > > > > They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target > all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. > This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The r
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I have the same question as to whether non-proprietary devices like cellphones and laptops will be able to connect to the AP. For example, in a municipal deployment where the town wants to give all residents low-cost or free Internet access. On 1/27/2013 7:57 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > I'm assuming that since stadiums are a market, these are traditional WiFi, > since you can't very well plug a USB dongle into a smartphone. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > - Original Message - > From: "Patrick Leary" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:21:40 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > > > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous > ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have > North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not > WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, > indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason > why we are doing the sector versions. > > > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC > requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of > range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my > engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from > his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am > not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be > safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that > should help the range too. > > > > > Patrick Leary > > Alvarion > > 727.501.3735 > > > > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > > Patrick, > > > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g > version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 > radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna > elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. > > WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with > each band 3x3. > > WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 > diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. > > > > Yes John, we have client devices, among them: > > Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form > factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It > is a really effective little box. > > There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. > > There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. > > > > I have to check as there may be others. > > > > Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. > > > > They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all > the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This > helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several > other patented interference mitigation techniques. > > > > Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 > series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) > boxes and feel like tanks. > > > > Patrick Leary > > Alvarion > > 727.501.3735 > > > > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On > Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM > To: j...@mvn.net ; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > > > We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying > wavion was
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Wait so what's not licensed?? Or is it a brick without one or the other? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 28, 2013 8:53 AM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > I knew it was too good to be true... > > "Bridge and Router Modes" - Require additional licenses. > > :( > > On 1/27/13 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: > > The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector > > or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. > > I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing > > examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit > > me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. > > > > Patrick Leary > > > > Alvarion > > > > 727.501.3735 > > > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > > *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis > > *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM > > *To:* WISPA General List > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. > > > > I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT > > CPE? > > > > How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? > > > > Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? > > > > Pricing? > > > > -- > > > > On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: > > > > Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. > > Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor > > CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a > > lot older! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" > > mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> > wrote: > > > > So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the > > licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from > > yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary > > mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> > > wrote: > > > > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different > > from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware > > (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American > > anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not > > WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like > > smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. > > The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector > > versions. > > > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > > > > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > > > > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet > > the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > > > > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to > > get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I > > know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting > > stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his > > house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story > > porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I > > should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is > > bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help > > the range too. > > > > Patrick Leary > > > > Alvarion > > > > 727.501.3735 > > > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org > > <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> > > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt > Hoppes > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > > *To:* WISPA General List > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > > > Patrick, > > > > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the > > tower running 3X3
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I knew it was too good to be true... "Bridge and Router Modes" - Require additional licenses. :( On 1/27/13 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: > The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector > or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. > I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing > examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit > me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. > > Patrick Leary > > Alvarion > > 727.501.3735 > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis > *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM > *To:* WISPA General List > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. > > I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT > CPE? > > How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? > > Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? > > Pricing? > > -- > > On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: > > Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. > Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor > CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a > lot older! > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" > mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote: > > So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the > licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from > yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary > mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> > wrote: > > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different > from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware > (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American > anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not > WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like > smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. > The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector > versions. > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet > the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to > get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I > know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting > stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his > house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story > porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I > should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is > bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help > the range too. > > Patrick Leary > > Alvarion > > 727.501.3735 > > *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org > <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes > *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > *To:* WISPA General List > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > Patrick, > > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the > tower running 3X3? > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary > <mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> wrote: > > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that > version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis > diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are > N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz > side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 > degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
How's my favorite Evangelist Patrick? Long time not talk. Marco Coelho Argon On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: > I thought AF was just a Motoer Cambium thing. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:36 PM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote: > > Will it be at AF? ISP America? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > On Jan 26, 2013 8:32 PM, "Patrick Leary" > wrote: > >> Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing >> like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. >> ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" >> wrote: >> >> So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >> licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are >> they wide open and you get what you buy? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >> wrote: >> >> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the >> previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I >> don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international >> examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like >> smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market >> is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. >> >> ** ** >> >> The specs on the dual band sector are: >> >> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >> >> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >> >> ** ** >> >> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC >> requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >> >> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >> >> ** ** >> >> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea >> of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source >> (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile >> away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story >> porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume >> mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as >> well, so that should help the range too. >> >> ** ** >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Alvarion >> >> 727.501.3735 >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >> *To:* WISPA General List >> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> ** ** >> >> Patrick, >> >> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running >> 3X3? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary >> wrote: >> >> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy >> b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate >> (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature >> 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >> >> >> >> >> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 >> antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. >> >> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again >> with each band 3x3. >> >> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >> >> >> >> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >> >> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small >> form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts >> indoor. It is a really effective little box. >> >> There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. >> >> There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. >> >> >> >> I have to check as there may be others. >> >> >> >> Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. >> >> >> >> They all do beam adaptive be
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Am I missing something on these radios or are they not TDMA based? If they are only CSMA I don't see anyway you can get the advertised client load on without massive issues - beam forming or not. I was really hoping this would be a carrier class base station. These look more like wifi hotspot devices. Sent from my iPad On Jan 27, 2013, at 19:31, Patrick Leary wrote: > The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 > diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on > a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist > tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll > do the same. > > Patrick Leary > Alvarion > 727.501.3735 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Blair Davis > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. > > I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? > > How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? > > Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? > > Pricing? > > -- > On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: > Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like > VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This > is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > > So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing > going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide > open and you get what you buy? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary wrote: > > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous > ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have > North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not > WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, > indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason > why we are doing the sector versions. > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC > requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of > range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my > engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from > his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am > not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be > safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that > should help the range too. > > Patrick Leary > Alvarion > 727.501.3735 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > Patrick, > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary wrote: > > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g > version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 > radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna > elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. > WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with > each band 3x3. > WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 > diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. > > Yes John, we have client devices, among them: > Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form > factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It > is a really effective little box. > There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. > There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. > > I have to check as there may be others. > > Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. &
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Thanks.
Along with the pricing, please send or link to some
documentation...
I like the idea of beam-forming for both Tx and Rx. Under the PtP
power/gain rules, I suspect that there may be some usability in
NLoS.
I also suspect that beam-forming may help solve the 'hidden node'
problem.
Now, I'm thinking of how cool it would be to combine this with
AirMax. (not gonna happen, I know. Still cool)
--
On 1/27/2013 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary
wrote:
The
2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single
sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE
connect to it just fine.
I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some
pricing examples
offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested
hit me OFFLIST and
I'll do the same.
Patrick
Leary
Alvarion
727.501.3735
From:
wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair
Davis
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP
alternatives?
I'd like more info on these or similar
things as well.
I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace
all my UBNT
CPE?
How about the omni antenna plots/patterns?
Maybe a 2.4GHz only version?
Pricing?
--
On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary
wrote:
Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted
webinar on the 2450
series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor
CPE sub $50, outdoor
CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm
feeling a lot older!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" <mhop...@indigowireless.com>
wrote:
So when can more information about
these devices be had?
Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL
equipment from
yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what
you buy?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@alvarion.com>
wrote:
I
actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and
different from
the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware
(filters and such), so I
don't yet have North American anecdotal examples.
Most international examples
are not WISP-based I understand, using omni
versions for apps like smart
cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums,
etc. The WISP market is a big
reason why we are doing the sector versions.
The
specs on the dual band sector are:
2.4
GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV
5
GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV
Effective
directed EIRP totals are high because they meet
the
PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive
beamforming:
2.4
GHz: 48 dBm
5 GHz: 49 dBm
Those
of you smarter than I can probably do the math
then to get
an idea of range at various heights. The one
example I know from a trusted
source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps
with the USB device one mile
away from his house with the BTS mounted on the
railing of his 2nd story porch.
I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I
should a
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
*SMH* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:34:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'm always interested in the next great thing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:31:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" < mhop...@indigowireless.com > wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'm always interested in the next great thing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:31:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" < mhop...@indigowireless.com > wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the r
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
A lot more and two engineers to answer questions, one of them owned his own Canopy-based WISP for years. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? On that same note... is there more info on this webinar? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/27/13 6:13 PM, Blair Davis wrote: > I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. > > I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT > CPE? > > How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? > > Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? > > Pricing? > > -- > On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >> Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. >> Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor >> CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a >> lot older! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" > <mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote: >> >>> So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >>> licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? >>> Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >> <mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the >>>> previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), >>>> so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most >>>> international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni >>>> versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, >>>> stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the >>>> sector versions. >>>> >>>> The specs on the dual band sector are: >>>> >>>> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >>>> >>>> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >>>> >>>> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP >>>> FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >>>> >>>> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >>>> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >>>> >>>> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an >>>> idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a >>>> trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the >>>> USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the >>>> railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS >>>> condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The >>>> beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that >>>> should help the range too. >>>> >>>> Patrick Leary >>>> >>>> Alvarion >>>> >>>> 727.501.3735 >>>> >>>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >>>> >>>> Patrick, >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower >>>> running 3X3? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary >>> <mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the >>>> legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 >>>> mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 >>>> series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the >>>> 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >>>> >>>> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees >>>> with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you >>>> want. >>>> >>>> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3
diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a
big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist
tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do
the same.
Patrick Leary
Alvarion
727.501.3735
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf
Of Blair Davis
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'd like more info on these or similar things as well.
I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE?
How about the omni antenna plots/patterns?
Maybe a 2.4GHz only version?
Pricing?
--
On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:
Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing
like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150.
...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes"
wrote:
So when can more information about these devices be had? Is
the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are
they wide open and you get what you buy?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary
wrote:
I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and
different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and
such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most
international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for
apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP
market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions.
The specs on the dual band sector are:
2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV
5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV
Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they
meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming:
2.4 GHz: 48 dBm
5 GHz: 49 dBm
Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math
then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a
trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device
one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd
story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume
mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as
well, so that should help the range too.
Patrick Leary
Alvarion
727.501.3735
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Patrick,
Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from
the tower running 3X3?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary
wrote:
Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right,
that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That
has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are
N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The
versions include:
WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector
in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you
want.
WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed
dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3.
WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120
sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis.
Yes John, we have client devices, among them:
Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it
is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal
and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box.
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
On that same note... is there more info on this webinar? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/27/13 6:13 PM, Blair Davis wrote: > I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. > > I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT > CPE? > > How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? > > Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? > > Pricing? > > -- > On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: >> Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. >> Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor >> CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a >> lot older! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" > <mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com>> wrote: >> >>> So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >>> licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? >>> Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >> <mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the >>>> previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), >>>> so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most >>>> international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni >>>> versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, >>>> stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the >>>> sector versions. >>>> >>>> The specs on the dual band sector are: >>>> >>>> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >>>> >>>> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >>>> >>>> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP >>>> FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >>>> >>>> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >>>> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >>>> >>>> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an >>>> idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a >>>> trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the >>>> USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the >>>> railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS >>>> condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The >>>> beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that >>>> should help the range too. >>>> >>>> Patrick Leary >>>> >>>> Alvarion >>>> >>>> 727.501.3735 >>>> >>>> *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>> <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >>>> >>>> Patrick, >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower >>>> running 3X3? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary >>> <mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the >>>> legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 >>>> mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 >>>> series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the >>>> 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >>>> >>>> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees >>>> with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you >>>> want. >>>> >>>> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, >>>> again with each band 3x3. >>>> >>>> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >>>> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >>>> >>>> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >>>> >>>> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'd like more info on these or similar things as well.
I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my
UBNT CPE?
How about the omni antenna plots/patterns?
Maybe a 2.4GHz only version?
Pricing?
--
On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary
wrote:
Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450
series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub
$50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion,
though I'm feeling a lot older!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" <mhop...@indigowireless.com>
wrote:
So when can more information about these devices be had?
Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment
from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what
you buy?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@alvarion.com>
wrote:
I
actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and
different from
the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware
(filters and such), so I
don't yet have North American anecdotal examples.
Most international examples
are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions
for apps like smart
cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc.
The WISP market is a big
reason why we are doing the sector versions.
The
specs on the dual band sector are:
2.4
GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV
5
GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV
Effective
directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the
PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive
beamforming:
2.4
GHz: 48 dBm
5 GHz: 49 dBm
Those
of you smarter than I can probably do the math then
to get
an idea of range at various heights. The one example
I know from a trusted
source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps
with the USB device one mile
away from his house with the BTS mounted on the
railing of his 2nd story porch.
I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I
should assume mostly LOS to
be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the
CPE up as well, so that
should help the range too.
Patrick
Leary
Alvarion
727.501.3735
From:
wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On Behalf Of Matt
Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP
alternatives?
Patrick,
Out of curiosity what kind of
distance can you get from the
tower running 3X3?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary <patrick.le...@alvarion.com>
wrote:
Thanks
for the details Tyson. You are right, that
version is the
legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally
opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate
(obviously in top modulation). The new 2450
series are N-based and feature 6
radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3
MIMO. The versions include:
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'm assuming that since stadiums are a market, these are traditional WiFi, since you can't very well plug a USB dongle into a smartphone. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:21:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'm assuming there is 450 per band, 900 total with only about half of that available for real throughput. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" To: "WISPA General List" , j...@mvn.net Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:07:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner wrote: Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? Latency results average/max/min on longest shot? Do they only use plain vanilla Wifi or some scheduled TDMA variant (like UBNT AirMAX or Proxim WARP or old Karlnet stuff)? Max raw TCP throughput per sector? How many deployments? Anything like this would be very valuable. I liked to hearing about all Wavion was supposed to be able to do when I saw them at a show but I am always hesitant to believe anything that is pure Wifi can be a real outdoor delivery platform. Very interested to hear your results about this device. Thank you, Scriv On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Tyson Shreeves < ty...@wigi.us > wrote: We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little pricey though. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" < wispawirel...@ics-il.net > wrote: There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
That sounds great Patrick! I'm not sure the old Alvarion would part with a RJ45 connector for under $50. (Obviously exaggerated.) I look forward to the webinar. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" To: "WISPA General List" Cc: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:31:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" < mhop...@indigowireless.com > wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary < patrick.le...@alvarion.com > wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 new
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Ubnt is there and has a keynote. Last what, 3 years? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 10:21 PM, "Patrick Leary" wrote: > I thought AF was just a Motoer Cambium thing. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:36 PM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote: > > Will it be at AF? ISP America? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > On Jan 26, 2013 8:32 PM, "Patrick Leary" > wrote: > >> Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing >> like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. >> ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" >> wrote: >> >> So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the >> licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are >> they wide open and you get what you buy? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary >> wrote: >> >> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the >> previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I >> don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international >> examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like >> smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market >> is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. >> >> ** ** >> >> The specs on the dual band sector are: >> >> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >> >> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >> >> ** ** >> >> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC >> requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >> >> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >> >> ** ** >> >> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea >> of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source >> (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile >> away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story >> porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume >> mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as >> well, so that should help the range too. >> >> ** ** >> >> Patrick Leary >> >> Alvarion >> >> 727.501.3735 >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >> *To:* WISPA General List >> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> ** ** >> >> Patrick, >> >> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running >> 3X3? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary >> wrote: >> >> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy >> b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate >> (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature >> 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >> >> >> >> >> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 >> antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. >> >> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again >> with each band 3x3. >> >> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >> >> >> >> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >> >> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small >> form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts >> indoor. It is a really effective little box. >> >> There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. >> >> There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. >> >> >> >> I have to check as there may be others. >> >> >> >> Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate.*
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Will it be at AF? ISP America? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 8:32 PM, "Patrick Leary" wrote: > Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing > like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. > ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" > wrote: > > So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing > going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide > open and you get what you buy? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary > wrote: > > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the > previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I > don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international > examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like > smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market > is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. > > ** ** > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > ** ** > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC > requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > ** ** > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea > of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source > (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile > away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story > porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume > mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as > well, so that should help the range too. > > ** ** > > Patrick Leary > > Alvarion > > 727.501.3735 > > ** ** > > *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes > *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > *To:* WISPA General List > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > ** ** > > Patrick, > > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running > 3X3? > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary > wrote: > > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy > b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature > 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > > > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 > antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. > > WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with > each band 3x3. > > WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 > diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. > > > > Yes John, we have client devices, among them: > > Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small > form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts > indoor. It is a really effective little box. > > There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. > > There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. > > > > I have to check as there may be others. > > > > Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. > > > > They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all > the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. > This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have > several other patented interference mitigation techniques. > > > > Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the > 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 > feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. > > > > Patrick Leary > > Alvarion > > 727.501.3735 > > > > *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org > [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > *On Behalf Of *Tyson Shreeves > *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM > *To:* j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Nice. Count me in. Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 20:31, Patrick Leary wrote: > Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like > VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This > is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > >> So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing >> going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide >> open and you get what you buy? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary wrote: >> >>> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the >>> previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I >>> don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international >>> examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like >>> smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market >>> is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. >>> >>> The specs on the dual band sector are: >>> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >>> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >>> >>> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC >>> requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >>> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >>> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >>> >>> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of >>> range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my >>> engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away >>> from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. >>> I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS >>> to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so >>> that should help the range too. >>> >>> Patrick Leary >>> Alvarion >>> 727.501.3735 >>> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >>> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >>> >>> Patrick, >>> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running >>> 3X3? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g >>> version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate >>> (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature >>> 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >>> >>> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 >>> antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. >>> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with >>> each band 3x3. >>> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >>> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >>> >>> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >>> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small >>> form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts >>> indoor. It is a really effective little box. >>> There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. >>> There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. >>> >>> I have to check as there may be others. >>> >>> Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. >>> >>> They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all >>> the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. >>> This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have >>> several other patented interference mitigation techniques. >>> >>> Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 >>> series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet >>> deep) boxes and feel like tanks. >>> >>> Patrick Leary >>> Alvarion >>> 727.501.3735 >>> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireles
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" wrote: > So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing > going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide > open and you get what you buy? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary wrote: > >> I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous >> ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet >> have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not >> WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, >> indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason >> why we are doing the sector versions. >> >> The specs on the dual band sector are: >> 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV >> 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV >> >> Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC >> requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: >> 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm >> 5 GHz: 49 dBm >> >> Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of >> range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my >> engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away >> from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I >> am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to >> be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that >> should help the range too. >> >> Patrick Leary >> Alvarion >> 727.501.3735 >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> Patrick, >> Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running >> 3X3? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary wrote: >> >> Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g >> version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate >> (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 >> radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: >> >> WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna >> elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. >> WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with >> each band 3x3. >> WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 >> diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. >> >> Yes John, we have client devices, among them: >> Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form >> factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. >> It is a really effective little box. >> There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. >> There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. >> >> I have to check as there may be others. >> >> Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. >> >> They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all >> the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This >> helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have >> several other patented interference mitigation techniques. >> >> Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 >> series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet >> deep) boxes and feel like tanks. >> >> Patrick Leary >> Alvarion >> 727.501.3735 >> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves >> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM >> To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying >> wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The >> most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performan
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary wrote: > I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous > ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have > North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not > WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, > indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason > why we are doing the sector versions. > > The specs on the dual band sector are: > 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV > 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV > > Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC > requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: > 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm > 5 GHz: 49 dBm > > Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of > range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my > engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from > his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am > not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be > safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that > should help the range too. > > Patrick Leary > Alvarion > 727.501.3735 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > Patrick, > Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary wrote: > > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g > version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 > radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna > elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. > WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with > each band 3x3. > WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 > diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. > > Yes John, we have client devices, among them: > Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form > factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It > is a really effective little box. > There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. > There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. > > I have to check as there may be others. > > Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. > > They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all > the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This > helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several > other patented interference mitigation techniques. > > Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 > series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) > boxes and feel like tanks. > > Patrick Leary > Alvarion > 727.501.3735 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM > To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying > wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The > most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance > issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. > Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual > mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something > called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or > go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually > hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have > are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the > amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all > ive done is create a tech file i
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner wrote: Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? Latency results average/max/
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary wrote: > Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g > version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate > (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 > radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: > > WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna > elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. > WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with > each band 3x3. > WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 > diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. > > Yes John, we have client devices, among them: > Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form > factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It > is a really effective little box. > There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. > There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. > > I have to check as there may be others. > > Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. > > They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all > the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This > helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several > other patented interference mitigation techniques. > > Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 > series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) > boxes and feel like tanks. > > Patrick Leary > Alvarion > 727.501.3735 > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM > To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying > wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The > most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance > issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. > Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual > mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something > called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or > go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually > hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have > are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the > amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all > ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good > about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer > let me know. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID > > > John Scrivner wrote: > > Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni > or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? > Latency results average/max/min on longest shot? Do they only use plain > vanilla Wifi or some scheduled TDMA variant (like UBNT AirMAX or Proxim WARP > or old Karlnet stuff)? Max raw TCP throughput per sector? How many > deployments? Anything like this would be very valuable. I liked to hearing > about all Wavion was supposed to be able to do when I saw them at a show but > I am always hesitant to believe anything that is pure Wifi can be a real > outdoor delivery platform. Very interested to hear your results about this > device. > Thank you, > Scriv > > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Tyson Shreeves wrote: > We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little > pricey though. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID > > > Josh Luthman wrote: > > Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: > There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. > > Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd > consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are > generally too low of throughput to be useful. > > I don't think anyone has r
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner wrote: Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? Latency results average/max/min on longest shot? Do they only use plain vanilla Wifi or some scheduled TDMA variant (like UBNT AirMAX or Proxim WARP or old Karlnet stuff)? Max raw TCP throughput per sector? How many deployments? Anything like this would be very valuable. I liked to hearing about all Wavion was supposed to be able to do when I saw them at a show but I am always hesitant to believe anything that is pure Wifi can be a real outdoor delivery platform. Very interested to hear your results about this device. Thank you, Scriv On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Tyson Shreeves wrote: We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little pricey though. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Josh Luthman wrote: Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Jenkins" To: us...@wug.cc, "WIS
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 & 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner wrote: >___ >Wireless mailing list >Wireless@wispa.org >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? Latency results average/max/min on longest shot? Do they only use plain vanilla Wifi or some scheduled TDMA variant (like UBNT AirMAX or Proxim WARP or old Karlnet stuff)? Max raw TCP throughput per sector? How many deployments? Anything like this would be very valuable. I liked to hearing about all Wavion was supposed to be able to do when I saw them at a show but I am always hesitant to believe anything that is pure Wifi can be a real outdoor delivery platform. Very interested to hear your results about this device. Thank you, Scriv On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Tyson Shreeves wrote: > We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little > pricey though. > > *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID* > > > Josh Luthman wrote: > > Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: > >> There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. >> >> Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd >> consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are >> generally too low of throughput to be useful. >> >> I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi >> space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. >> Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. >> >> Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It >> looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. >> >> 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I >> have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Matt Jenkins" >> To: us...@wug.cc, "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:36:26 PM >> Subject: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? >> >> Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone >> successfully deploying something else to service both residential and >> business customers? >> >> Thanks, >> >> - Matt >> ___ >> Wireless mailing list >> Wireless@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> ___ >> Wireless mailing list >> Wireless@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
The big Canadian operator is using our traditional 4Motion BreezeMAX WiMAX gear. I believe they are now layering in the small footprint new 4x4 (but I think they are using it in 4x2) Compacts though, which cost much less than the original base stations. I think they are over 20k subs at this point. They sell 5 to 10 mbps service and put well over 100 subs on a sector. Their oversubscription is higher than most WISPs would do, but the network seems to be managed well. I think it is about 15:1. It's not for everyone, but it works for them. Re the former Wavion stuff, on Feb 12, we'll be doing a WISPA webinar on the new products born from our acquisition of Wavion. 900 mbps aggregate dual band outdoor IP68-rated APs. Each has an array of 6 radios with bi-directional adaptive beamforming that adjusts per packet so we were able to cert them using PtP power rules. That makes coverage and indoor penetration really good. One of our engineers put one of the new APs on his 2nd story porch and did 20 mbps from his laptop with just a USB device at 1 mile. As part of the webinar we'll introduce sustained special pricing for proven WISPA members. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little pricey though. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Josh Luthman wrote: Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Jenkins" To: us...@wug.cc, "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:36:26 PM Subject: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone successfully deploying something else to service both residential and business customers? Thanks, - Matt ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(100). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I would never use any Huawei anything unless you like deal with a bunch of unscrupulous people. They'd also be LTE or WiMAX. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Josh Luthman" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" < wispawirel...@ics-il.net > wrote: There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Jenkins" < m...@smarterbroadband.net > To: us...@wug.cc, "WISPA General List" < wireless@wispa.org > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:36:26 PM Subject: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone successfully deploying something else to service both residential and business customers? Thanks, - Matt ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little pricey though. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Josh Luthman wrote: >___ >Wireless mailing list >Wireless@wispa.org >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: > There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. > > Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd > consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are > generally too low of throughput to be useful. > > I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi > space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. > Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. > > Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It > looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. > > 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I > have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Jenkins" > To: us...@wug.cc, "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:36:26 PM > Subject: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone > successfully deploying something else to service both residential and > business customers? > > Thanks, > > - Matt > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. Mikrotik has their whole RouterOS behind it and generally works. Cambium is the only thing I can think of that's doing their own thing. It looks really good if only the APs were 90% less expensive. 100 meg of throughput on an AP is really the minimum to be considered. I have areas where I could put something multiples higher to use. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Jenkins" To: us...@wug.cc, "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:36:26 PM Subject: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone successfully deploying something else to service both residential and business customers? Thanks, - Matt ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Do yourself a favor and throw away the omnis. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Craig House" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 6:02:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? What are the advantages / disadvantages of RADWin PtmP products? We have had horrible luck with OFDM AP's from Cambium and have lost multiple business customers that were demanding 5x5 or 10x10 connections that we cant deliver on FSK. In a few cases we have put up their own backhauls for them and in a few others we have put up UBNT sectors for that kind of BW but would really like to have a reliable PtmP Omni that could service multiple high bandwidth requiring customers. Thanks Craig - Original Message - From: "Matt Hoppes" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:57:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? RADWin point to multipoint? What exactly are you trying to do? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/25/13 6:36 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: > Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone > successfully deploying something else to service both residential and > business customers? > > Thanks, > > - Matt > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
what sort of problems have you had with cambium OFDM PMP? we did find that with the 430APs the Omni (laird 12db) is only good for 2-4 mile shots. over 4 miles and you really need the 17db sector on the AP. just curious because for us cambium's OFDM products saved our business. -sean On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Craig House wrote: > What are the advantages / disadvantages of RADWin PtmP products? We have > had horrible luck with OFDM AP's from Cambium and have lost multiple > business customers that were demanding 5x5 or 10x10 connections that we > cant deliver on FSK. In a few cases we have put up their own backhauls for > them and in a few others we have put up UBNT sectors for that kind of BW > but would really like to have a reliable PtmP Omni that could service > multiple high bandwidth requiring customers. > > Thanks > > Craig > > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Hoppes" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:57:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > RADWin point to multipoint? What exactly are you trying to do? > > > Matt Hoppes > Director of Information Technology > Indigo Wireless > +1 (570) 723-7312 > > On 1/25/13 6:36 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: > > Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone > > successfully deploying something else to service both residential and > > business customers? > > > > Thanks, > > > > - Matt > > ___ > > Wireless mailing list > > Wireless@wispa.org > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Ubiquiti will service multiple high bandwidth customers if setup properly. We are able to push upwards of 35-40 meg through our UBNT APs. The RADWin PtMP products allow you to assign a set number of TDMA chunks to each client to assure them bandwidth on the sector. Note.. SECTOR. You'll never find a product that can deliver reliably on an omni. On 1/25/13 7:02 PM, Craig House wrote: > What are the advantages / disadvantages of RADWin PtmP products? We have had > horrible luck with OFDM AP's from Cambium and have lost multiple business > customers that were demanding 5x5 or 10x10 connections that we cant deliver > on FSK. In a few cases we have put up their own backhauls for them and in a > few others we have put up UBNT sectors for that kind of BW but would really > like to have a reliable PtmP Omni that could service multiple high bandwidth > requiring customers. > > Thanks > > Craig > > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Hoppes" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:57:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? > > RADWin point to multipoint? What exactly are you trying to do? > > > Matt Hoppes > Director of Information Technology > Indigo Wireless > +1 (570) 723-7312 > > On 1/25/13 6:36 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: >> Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone >> successfully deploying something else to service both residential and >> business customers? >> >> Thanks, >> >> - Matt >> ___ >> Wireless mailing list >> Wireless@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
What are the advantages / disadvantages of RADWin PtmP products? We have had horrible luck with OFDM AP's from Cambium and have lost multiple business customers that were demanding 5x5 or 10x10 connections that we cant deliver on FSK. In a few cases we have put up their own backhauls for them and in a few others we have put up UBNT sectors for that kind of BW but would really like to have a reliable PtmP Omni that could service multiple high bandwidth requiring customers. Thanks Craig - Original Message - From: "Matt Hoppes" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:57:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? RADWin point to multipoint? What exactly are you trying to do? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/25/13 6:36 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: > Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone > successfully deploying something else to service both residential and > business customers? > > Thanks, > > - Matt > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
RADWin point to multipoint? What exactly are you trying to do? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/25/13 6:36 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: > Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone > successfully deploying something else to service both residential and > business customers? > > Thanks, > > - Matt > ___ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Besides Cambium, Mikrotik, Ubnt and other WiFi products, is anyone successfully deploying something else to service both residential and business customers? Thanks, - Matt ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
