Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[John Scrivner]

Your problem is likely peer to peer file sharing I bet. Do you have the 
ability to see what is actually being sent per IP address on your 
network? A flood from a peer to peer "attack" can bring your wireless 
network to its knees. One client with multiple sessions can do the 
damage all by themselves. Star OS and Mikrotik are two things that can 
be your friend here. Star OS has nice IP Traffic Analysis tools built 
in. I hear Mikrotik can isolate and throttle your peer to peer traffic 
to a low level to force some sanity on your network. Best to move this 
out to the edge as much as possible to limit the radio airtime from 
being flooded with traffic. I have provisions in my acceptable use 
policy which limit what a customer can do including no peer to peer use 
or allowance for termination if they cause problems on the network. The 
key is we shut them down if they break the rules. The network troubles 
go away then.

Good luck,
Scriv


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 



I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until 
I hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference 
from too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs 
are locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, 
or maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using 
ans point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, 
and maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M 
subs up to 11M.


Thanks all.


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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

What's with all the question marks on the spec sheet?

Brian, we see this more and more.  Low traffic sites will do many things 
well because there just isn't any RF when there aren't many customers.  So 
tests work very nicely


Antennas are a HUGE part of what makes your network tick.  Cheap ones will 
bite ya in the tail every time.  ESPECIALLY when there are many others 
around.


The rule of thumb is that you should keep your antennas at least 10' apart. 
Alvarion did a test a few years back.  On the same roof with the same ap's 
they used 3 or 4 different sectors.  With the high end ones (read $$) 
they could get as close as 6' before the radios started to take a lot of 
errors.  With the cheap ones they had to have 15 feet!  Antennas were the 
only things changed.  This test was done at a wisp but by the factory techs. 
I'll bet Patrick or Brad would remember more specifics.


If you aren't sure if that's the case you should just try moving one of the 
sectors as far away as you can get.  If that helps, you know you are onto 
something.


I've been pulling out my $120 Maxrad sectors and putting in the $400 Maxrad 
ones.  ALL 4 of the sites that have the cheaper ones do strange things. 
Reliability is way below my other sites.  Swapped the first one out the 
other day, we'll see how things go.  The worst part of it is that they seem 
to affect the systems around them in a bad way too.


As an FYI, I do NOT buy antennas, from anyone, that are hard to weather 
seal.  There's just no reason for those guys to give us anything that we 
have to fight with.


Going through trees etc. will cause all manner of strange things.  The only 
way to really know if that's your problem vs. the other one is to shut two 
sectors down and see if that makes the one sector work better.  If not, then 
you have an outside source of interference, too much nlos, too many 
customers for the system, bad antennas or something.  If shutting the others 
down works, then you can be pretty sure you need to redesign the tower or 
replace a bad antenna or three.


Hope this helps,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: [WISPA] 120* Sectors



Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from too 
many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are locked 
into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or maybe because 
of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my problems?  High pings 
and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or maybe my 600k upload is 
maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One thing I do know is I hooked 
up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and maybe 
a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up to 11M.


Thanks all.

--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[JohnnyO]

He is using channel 1 / 6 / 11 - there will be no f/b issues if he is using Non-Overlapping channels.

JohnnyO

On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 06:24 -0600, Pete Davis wrote:


"Back to backk on a pole" might be a problem. Are the antennas at least 
6' apart from each other? (horizontally or vertically?) Physical 
separation may not be an issue until the subscriber numbers go up, but 
it be a problem.

Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> Here is what I use.
> http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 
>
>
> I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until 
> I hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference 
> from too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs 
> are locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, 
> or maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
> problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
> maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
> thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.
>
> I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using 
> ans point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, 
> and maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M 
> subs up to 11M.
>
> Thanks all.
>





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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Pete Davis]

"Back to backk on a pole" might be a problem. Are the antennas at least 
6' apart from each other? (horizontally or vertically?) Physical 
separation may not be an issue until the subscriber numbers go up, but 
it be a problem.


Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 



I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until 
I hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference 
from too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs 
are locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, 
or maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using 
ans point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, 
and maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M 
subs up to 11M.


Thanks all.



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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I need horizontal.

Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:


For 3 Radios:
http://www.maxrad.com/product_overview_detail.cgi?id_num=10696&styleid=8

For single Radio:
http://www.maxrad.com/product_overview_detail.cgi?id_num=10511&styleid=8

I never hooked up a customer if they were not at 11meg, anytime I tried the
performance was terrible. 


Maybe you need to look at 900Mhz for some of those subs?

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:23 PM
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-1
35.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from 
too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are 
locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or 
maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and 
maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up 
to 11M.


Thanks all.

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Brian Rohrbacher]

This is what I use.
4 	Gain 	³ 13.5dBi 	 
5 	Polarization 	Horizontal, Linear 	 
6 	3dB Horizontal Beamwidth 	120°  	 See attached plot 

7 	3dB Vertical Beamwidth 	12°  	 See attached plot 

8 	Front to Back Ratio 	³ 20dB 	 See attached plot 


9   Max. Power Input20W


inline
JohnnyO wrote:


I would change to either of these antennas :

*Part No:* SAH24-16-G
*Item Description:* 16dBi 95Deg HPOL Sector Antenna, N Female 
Connector, Single Bracket

*Price:* $209.95

We have several of these deployed and are easily getting 120deg of 
coverage out of them even though their rated for 95deg. Also - You 
will see a night and day difference on your current links and may 
actually bump several of them to 5.5mbps from 1mbps.


The ones I use have better f to b ratio?  Does this matter?  Hanging 
them back to back I don't wanna make it worse.


Also Brian - You are running 15dBi CPEs at these locations - I've 
suggested multiple times that you upgrade the CPEs to 19dBi units. 
Goto the higher gain sectors and then see what you are working with.


If you really wanna give your sectors a kick in the arse - Go with 
something like this - 
http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html
Going with this 22dBi Sector will definitely push most of your links 
into 5.5mbps.



With a 3.5* vertical beam, with these even cover very much?



Contact Roger Peters - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 or give him a shout at 210-601-7727. 
He's got the best pricing on pacwireless antennas and he also sells 
Teletronics antennas / amps / radios.


JohnnyO







On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 13:22 -0500, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from 
too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are 
locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or 
maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and 
maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up 
to 11M.


Thanks all.

--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net 
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

   



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[JohnnyO]

I would change to either of these antennas :

Part No: SAH24-16-G
Item Description: 16dBi 95Deg HPOL Sector Antenna, N Female Connector, Single Bracket
Price: $209.95

We have several of these deployed and are easily getting 120deg of coverage out of them even though their rated for 95deg. Also - You will see a night and day difference on your current links and may actually bump several of them to 5.5mbps from 1mbps.

Also Brian - You are running 15dBi CPEs at these locations - I've suggested multiple times that you upgrade the CPEs to 19dBi units. Goto the higher gain sectors and then see what you are working with.

If you really wanna give your sectors a kick in the arse - Go with something like this - http://www.teletronics.com/antenna2-422dBidirectional.html
Going with this 22dBi Sector will definitely push most of your links into 5.5mbps.

Contact Roger Peters - [EMAIL PROTECTED] or give him a shout at 210-601-7727. He's got the best pricing on pacwireless antennas and he also sells Teletronics antennas / amps / radios.

JohnnyO







On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 13:22 -0500, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from 
too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are 
locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or 
maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.

I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and 
maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up 
to 11M.

Thanks all.

-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17





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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I am moving to 900, that is a lot of cash to change em all out.  I'm 
looking for a "quick fix" to stabilize the majority of them.


Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:


For 3 Radios:
http://www.maxrad.com/product_overview_detail.cgi?id_num=10696&styleid=8

For single Radio:
http://www.maxrad.com/product_overview_detail.cgi?id_num=10511&styleid=8

I never hooked up a customer if they were not at 11meg, anytime I tried the
performance was terrible. 


Maybe you need to look at 900Mhz for some of those subs?

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:23 PM
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-1
35.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from 
too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are 
locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or 
maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and 
maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up 
to 11M.


Thanks all.

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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RE: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Mike Bushard, Jr]

For 3 Radios:
http://www.maxrad.com/product_overview_detail.cgi?id_num=10696&styleid=8

For single Radio:
http://www.maxrad.com/product_overview_detail.cgi?id_num=10511&styleid=8

I never hooked up a customer if they were not at 11meg, anytime I tried the
performance was terrible. 

Maybe you need to look at 900Mhz for some of those subs?

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:23 PM
To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-1
35.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from 
too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are 
locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or 
maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.

I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and 
maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up 
to 11M.

Thanks all.

-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I'd like to get a handle on my issues with a sector change, not a push 
up mast and grid at every subs house.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html 



I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until 
I hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference 
from too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs 
are locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, 
or maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using 
ans point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, 
and maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M 
subs up to 11M.


Thanks all.



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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[WISPA] 120* Sectors

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Here is what I use.
http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html

I have three mounted back to back on a pole.  It all worked fine until I 
hit a higher number of subscribers.  Maybe it's the interference from 
too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are 
locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or 
maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation.  So what is my 
problems?  High pings and timeouts.  Only when traffic is high.  Or 
maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up.  One 
thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have.


I am looking for advice on antennas.  Check out the ones I am using ans 
point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and 
maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up 
to 11M.


Thanks all.

--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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