[WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Kit Grose
G'day all, I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put it to the list: Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit

Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Karl Lurman
Kit, Seems like you answered your own question there. The only added benefit of putting the script in the header of every page, is that for the first time the script is downloaded, every subsequent page load will not require the same download again, even your Javascript reliant page. If you are

RE: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Frank Palinkas
Hi Kit, Don't know if this will help, but Simon Willison created an addLoadEvent(func) to get multiple scripts loading correctly on a page. Please see his blog: http://simonwillison.net/2004/May/26/addLoadEvent/ Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help W3C HTML Working

Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Kit Grose
Hi Frank, addLoadEvent is one of my essential includes on every project! I've made my own minor modifications, but it's a great piece of code. Cheers, Kit *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?

2007-10-09 Thread Kit Grose
Hi Karl, For the site in question, I ended up deciding to load the JS (minified, of course) on just the page it is required on, but I was never really happy with the performance (since a page that was designed to be flashy and impressive ends up being delayed by the download of

[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2007-10-09 Thread Staunton, Tonina
Thank you for your email, however I am out of the office until Friday, 12 October. If you have an urgent matter, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] or contact Richard Ko on 02 62036262. Regards, Tonina Staunton Team Leader, Web Management Australian Federal Police Phone: 02

[WSG] London Meetup for people interested in an informal discussion around web standards

2007-10-09 Thread Joseph Ortenzi
For the Attention of those of you in London, UK. WS Meetup London Group I hope this isn't an infringement of the mailing list. Apologies if I got it wrong. Sorry for the short notice but there has been a bit of an internal debate on the merits of letting you all know about this. For those

[WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Rick Lecoat
Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the navigation easily,

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Mike Brown
Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the source. I often read that this is a good idea, and that makes perfect sense to me as long as there are skip links so that people can reach the

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Sirgey Bereznik
I think that on the first place must be content, and only after that - navigation. Sorry for the poor English 2007/10/10, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi there; I'm currently laying down the markup for a site and have been pondering whether to put page content above navigation in the

RE: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Steve Green
The only research on this was on a tiny number of screen reader users (18 as I recall) and they had a very slight bias towards haing the navigation first. However, there were differences between people of differing ability. Experienced users tended to just deal with whatever was thrown at them,

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Rick Lecoat wrote: Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? Point 4 in this article... http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57TopicID=167DocumentID=2757 ...seems to indicate content first as best, with the navigation first with skip link to content

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread russ - maxdesign
Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? You're probably referring to this: It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are

RE: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Steve Green
Another thought. Are you planning to position the navigation at the top of the page even though it is at the end of the source? If so, I would say unequivocally that is the wrong thing to do. This will adversely affect anyone who uses keyboard navigation, because the tab sequence will not be

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
russ - maxdesign wrote: 2. if navigation comes before content, skip links are valuable for certain types of users. And if you have content first, would you have a skip to navigation link before it? :) P -- Patrick H. Lauke __

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Alastair Campbell
Mike Brown wrote: I think the article http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm *is* the prevailing wisdom in this matter :) Which is to say, some testing with a very specific design was used (with very little content or navigation), and that's all we have to go on so far.

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Michael MD
An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the debate... How source order affects Google rank :) also .. what about users of small-screen devices like mobile phones where lots of scrolling quickly becomes a pain? then to make matter worse there is the issue of

Re: [WSG] source order

2007-10-09 Thread Jermayn Parker
Put the 'main' 4-5 menu links up the top and then content with the extra navigation (sidebar of blogs etc) afterwards or even not include it in the mobile css [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/10/2007 10:24:30 am An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the debate... How

[WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread marvin hunkin
Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and

Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread William Donovan
What about Visio, I'm just thinking that you're already using Microsoft products that this may be something you could use. I know of people who use Visio a lot for wireframes and mock-ups. I suppose it depends on what details your lecturer is wanting in your story board's. the only setback I

Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread Steve Olive
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:46:58 pm marvin hunkin wrote: Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story

RE: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread Frank Palinkas
Hi Marvin, In April of this year I came across an add-in template for Microsoft Visio, enabling a user to produce wire-frames and more within the Visio work environment. Here is the address to the web page and small downloadable package: http://www.guuui.com/issues/02_07.php Maybe this

Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread Denise Belling
Hi Marvin You could try Axure (www.axure.com). I'm not too sure how accessible it is, but there is a trial version available and it has lots of drag drop functionality which could be helpful if it works with any accessibility tools you are using. Good luck with it. Cheers Denise On 10/10/07,