Re: [WSG] Accessability testing
hi James, These articles might be of some help: A Review of Free, Online Accessibility Tools http://www.webaim.org/techniques/articles/freetools/ Do-It-Yourself Accessibility http://www.sitepoint.com/article/yourself-accessibility/2 cheers Iza [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24/06/04 15:37 Hi - does anyone still use Bobby these days? I ask because we really have only used: Cynthia* Says - Web Content Accessibility Report (http://www.contentquality.com/) On a site we are developing we pass all Checklist items up to and including Priority 3 Verification with Cynthia, however our client is testing using Bobby and Usablenet, stating these are the 'industry standard'. Is this the case? If not could anyone hit me with a nice list objective comparison? Thanks James -- James Cowperthwaite [EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Accessability testing
Hi James I personally find that Cynthia is a better automated tool than Bobby - and it certainly helps you find fix up errors quicker, although I still really prefer to do accessibility testing myself by using Jaws Lynx. Cheers Jeff Lowder Accessibility 1st Website: www.accessibility1st.com.au Blog: www.accessibility1st.com.au/journal/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Cowperthwaite Sent: Thursday, 24 June 2004 3:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Accessability testing Hi - does anyone still use Bobby these days? I ask because we really have only used: CynthiaT Says - Web Content Accessibility Report (http://www.contentquality.com/) On a site we are developing we pass all Checklist items up to and including Priority 3 Verification with Cynthia, however our client is testing using Bobby and Usablenet, stating these are the 'industry standard'. Is this the case? If not could anyone hit me with a nice list objective comparison? Thanks James -- James Cowperthwaite [EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] IE linked image border grief
Unless I'm missing the point entirely, what's wrong with:
a img {border:none;}
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justin French
Sent: Thursday, 24 June 2004 9:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] IE linked image border grief
Hi all,
I have the following rules (amongst many):
a { text-decoration: none; }
a:link { border-bottom: 1px dotted black; }
a:visited { ... }
a:hover { ... }
No surprises so far -- it's a classic dotted border on links. The
problem I have is that IE displays the dotted bottom border on images
that contain no text, I guess that's a reasonable thing, and maybe not
a bug, but it's a pain in the ***.
If we had *ascendant* selectors, my problem would be solved, but we
don't:
imga { border:0; }
Bowman stopdesign.com solves the problem with a 'noline' class on his
linked image tags, but in this case, I can't edit the source of the
image tag, as it's auto-generated by the CMS. Bugger.
Searching Google for this is pretty much hopeless (the keywords are too
generic), so here I am, begging the WSG for some help :)
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliant Websites Directory
Great Idea, For the categories you may want to download the dmoz RDF dump from http://rdf.dmoz.org/. Get the structure.rdf.u8.gz. That should give you a pretty good comprehensive category listing. Dmoz has put a lot of time planing their categories so it's bound to be the best available. Just a thought on validation, are you going to automatically validate submissions? If so you may want to build your own validator. You can get a good idea from the w3c validator or WDG's validator their both free for download. Depending on how large your directory becomes, your server may get a bit flooded though. Marc. - Original Message - From: Razvan Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:13 PM Subject: [WSG] Standards Compliant Websites Directory Hello. I've started to build a Standards Compliant Websites Directory. A Web Directory where only Valid W3C sites will be accepted. The URL is: http://compliant-websites.seoed.com Please feel free to submit sites, only VALID sites. You can also mail me the info and I will submit them. Also, if you have ideas of news categories please mail me. Kindest regards, Razvan Pop * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Fw: print page
Hi everybody - my client wants the pages on her site setup so that they print out exactly how they look on the screen. At present the short pages are printing okay but the longer pages are leaving paragraphs out. I would appreciate it if someone could explain how to set this up or point me to a tutorial on the subject. Regards Maureen Beattie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Accessability testing
Thanks for the responses! Has anyone played with Usablenet? Opinions? Thanks James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] IE linked image border grief
On 24/06/2004, at 5:02 PM, Craig Stump wrote:
Unless I'm missing the point entirely, what's wrong with:
a img {border:none;}
Been there, tried that. The border is being applied to the a, not
the img.
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Recommended Books
James Ellis wrote: First taxi off the rank is Andy Budd's book listing at http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat31 - Andy, feel free to update the listing. Cheers James. I probably should add some of my articles as well, shouldn't I? Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] OT - Standards Compliant Websites Directory
A directory is a good idea, however there are quite a few sites doing similar things these days. Somebody could write a bot that validates as it crawls. Then you could have a standards compliant SE. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Accessability testing
I think there is a problem inherent in using these tools. HTML validators work because they check a document against a 'machine readable' set of grammars. Accessibility tools can't do this. What they do is look at a site based on a set of guidelines. However these guidelines are open to interpretation. Thus all tools like Bobby can do is help you spot obvious mistakes, they can't actually 'validate' your site. Problems occur when clients/developers mistake the tools for the actual guidelines/checklists. A site should try to conform to a priority level, not an accessibility tool. I've seen a number of instances where 'Bobby' thinks a site doesn't comply, but from reading the guidelines I disagree. The point isn't to naively follow a set of rules. The point is to make your site more accessible too people. If your site complies to all the priority 3 guidelines but fails to comply one priority 2 guidelines, does this make the site less accessible than one that comply to all priority 2 guidelines, but no priority 3? I think the clue really is in the language. These things are guidelines, not absolutes. James Cowperthwaite wrote: Hi - does anyone still use Bobby these days? I ask because we really have only used: Cynthia Says - Web Content Accessibility Report (http://www.contentquality.com/) On a site we are developing we pass all Checklist items up to and including Priority 3 Verification with Cynthia, however our client is testing using Bobby and Usablenet, stating these are the 'industry standard'. Is this the case? If not could anyone hit me with a nice list objective comparison? Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Fw: print page
AFAIK this is not possible. One main reason is that the vast majority of browsers will turn off background images and colours when printing Somehow you have to explain that a computer screen != A4 page (for non programmers a computer screen does not equal an A4 page) * the ratio of one side to another is different between screen/page * the margins depend on your printer setup etc etc -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Maureen Beattie wrote: Hi everybody - my client wants the pages on her site setup so that they print out exactly how they look on the screen. At present the short pages are printing okay but the longer pages are leaving paragraphs out. I would appreciate it if someone could explain how to set this up or point me to a tutorial on the subject. Regards Maureen Beattie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] OT - Standards Compliant Websites Directory
Andy Budd wrote: A directory is a good idea, however there are quite a few sites doing similar things these days. Somebody could write a bot that validates as it crawls. Then you could have a standards compliant SE. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * I've written a validator bot before in Python, it's a bit outdated but if Razvan is interested in making this a community project, I would be more than happy to build a better one. Marc. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] New mobile standards body
OMTP is a new standards body attempting to promote open standards amongst mobile manufacturers. With the messy state of Web standards compliance on mobiles, an organisation like this is long overdue although I noticed NTT DoCoMo is a member which is rather like inviting Hannibal Lector for vegetarian. Their Web site (http://www.omtp.org/) was up earlier today but appears to have been replaced with the ubiquitous hello world message; somewhat embarrassing for an organisation with 100,000 Euro membership fees. Kyle -- mobile web gear | pukupi.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
Hi all, I'm making good progress with web standards and accessibility, but I'm stuck on a problem with floated divs for displaying thumbnails on an art gallery site. No problem getting the thumbnail-caption combinations to display using left floated divs - thanks to Russ Weakley's float tutorials. But I just cannot find the way to get these thumbnail-caption combinations to align at the *bottom* - rather than the top where they are now. It's all explained on the test page at: http://www.bluemountainsgardener.info/fgtest/max_miller.asp I've shown the floated divs and the tables layout on the same page for comparison. By the way, the experience of displaying the thumbnails with CSS rather than a table convinced me yet again of the advantages of using web standards. Loads of code was trimmed away and it was much easier to code the ASP to create the gallery with three (or whatever) images to a line. Just need a bit of help over the final alignment hump. Many thanks to all who have helped me in the past. Cheers, John Penlington
Re: [WSG] New mobile standards body
Interesting Idea, but isn't this something the web standards project is/should be doing? Kyle Barrow wrote: OMTP is a new standards body attempting to promote open standards amongst mobile manufacturers. With the messy state of Web standards compliance on mobiles, an organisation like this is long overdue although I noticed NTT DoCoMo is a member which is rather like inviting Hannibal Lector for vegetarian. Their Web site (http://www.omtp.org/) was up earlier today but appears to have been replaced with the ubiquitous hello world message; somewhat embarrassing for an organisation with 100,000 Euro membership fees. Kyle Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] New mobile standards body
Kyle Barrow wrote: OMTP is a new standards body attempting to promote open standards amongst mobile manufacturers. With the messy state of Web standards compliance on mobiles, an organisation like this is long overdue although I noticed NTT DoCoMo is a member which is rather like inviting Hannibal Lector for vegetarian. Their Web site (http://www.omtp.org/) was up earlier today but appears to have been replaced with the ubiquitous hello world message; somewhat embarrassing for an organisation with 100,000 Euro membership fees. I just tried it and it was up, but it was probably better when they weren't. Part of their strategy is Participate actively in the standards setting process relevant to the technologies satisfying appropriate industry standards. They should start with their own site. From a Web standards perspective the site looks like bad news. Multi-table layout, Flash navigation, image map navigation, font tags, and fails HTML 4.01 Transitional (besides the embed tag). You would think, an organization focused on mobile users would at least have a Web site which mobile users could use. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 09:31 PM, John Penlington wrote: No problem getting the thumbnail-caption combinations to display using left floated divs - thanks to Russ Weakley's float tutorials. But I just cannot find the way to get these thumbnail-caption combinations to align at the *bottom* - rather than the top where they are now. I'm with you, mate - I'd love to know how to do this without the need for additional css for each and every thumbnail. I've researched this myself, and as far as I could determine, the (only?) way to bottom-align a row of floated divs is to declare the height of the divs for the tallest img, and then add padding-top to *each* img to force the alignment to the bottom. Clumsy, and a pain to update. Much as I hate it, I've yet to find a way to quickly and cleanly align a grid of thumbs as I can using table cells. You might like to check out the threads 'IE Max-width Emulation and Auto Centre' and 'Centering a liquid grid of image thumbs and captions' from the first week of June - this issue was discussed at some length (although maybe not bottom-alignment...) Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/
Re: [WSG] New mobile standards body
It would be great if WASP took a greater interest in mobile Web standards but that is not happening right now. OMTP goes beyond Web standards encompassing all mobile technologies. Kyle On 2004 Jun 24, , at 20:43, Andy Budd wrote: Interesting Idea, but isn't this something the web standards project is/should be doing? -- mobile web gear | pukupi.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
But I just cannot find the way to get these thumbnail-caption combinations to align at the *bottom* - rather than the top where they are now. I managed to pull this off by creating a container div for each image/caption pair that is always the same size. If you can determine what your maximum thumbnail size is, you can set up this container div class and re-use accordingly. Example: http://www.ingles-markets.com/bakery/cakes/ CSS: http://www.ingles-markets.com/gallery.css Hope that helps. Will Chatham Webmaster Ingles Markets ooOo-o 828.669.2941 - ext.534 www.ingles-markets.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Trusz, Andrew wrote: Couple of industrial strength options; both of which I've used. One is purely visual - organize the pictures by height. The pictures seem to come in roughly two heights so group them that way and they will mostly take care of themselves. You may have an odd transitional line from tall to short depending oh how many pictures you have. No good if the client insists their thumbnails are presented in a specific order - which mine (photographers) invariably do. The alternative is to pad the pictures. You've done it for width, just do it for height. It's more complicated but the same principle. You know how tall the tallest thumbnail is going to be. Pad all the pictures to that height. You can split the height and thereby center the pictures, with text at the foot of container, or pad completely on top and push them all to the bottom. This way you can mix and match tall and short. That's what I suggested, but it's a labour-intensive solution, and doesn't help me in coding a dynamic site with 5000+ thumbnails - when the thumbs displayed are a (subset and a) result of a database query. In effect, I have to code a page that will have an unknown number of thumbs, with an unknown mix of horizontal and vertical aspect ratios, in an unknown order. That's why I'm seeking an 'elegant' (ie common and minimum css) solution... Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/
RE: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
What if you changed your design a little so you don't need to do that? Like for example putting the caption on the top instead of the bottom? I havent tried this but what about putting the image and its caption in a div, then putting THAT in another div, with fixed height attributes and have the image/caption div at the bottom of it? Cant do that? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com
[WSG] Next WSG Melbourne Meeting Monday June 28
Just a reminder that the next WSG Melbourne Meeting is this Monday June 28. Featuring Cameron Adams, who will discuss his personal site The Man in Blue and how it was built to standards compliance. From what I understand Cameron will focus on the intersection between creativity and standards, walking us through his process, from Illustrator/Photoshop, the ideas that form, how standards influence the way we design, through to the final product plus some techniques. It's an excellent opportunity to learn how a talented developer does his stuff. Cameron is also one of three ongoing judges of the Web Standards Awards and you may have some questions about this too. Details: Informal start/Networking from 6.30pm with the main speaker at 7pm. Where do we meet? Note: venue change for this meeting Multi-Function Room - RMIT, Swanston Street Melbourne Building 28 Level 4 (Enter Bld 8 from Swanston St. take lift 1 or 3 to Lvl 4.) RSVP to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More information from http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event11.cfm The Man in Blue http://www.themaninblue.com/ Web Standards Awards http://www.webstandardsawards.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
Nick Gleitzman] Problem with floated divs in gallery site On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Trusz, Andrew wrote: Couple of industrial strength options; both of which I've used. One is purely visual - organize the pictures by height.. No good if the client insists their thumbnails are presented in a specific order - which mine (photographers) invariably do. The alternative is to pad the pictures. That's what I suggested, but it's a labour-intensive solution, and doesn't help me in coding a dynamic site with 5000+ thumbnails - when the thumbs displayed are a (subset and a) result of a database query. In effect, I have to code a page that will have an unknown number of thumbs, with an unknown mix of horizontal and vertical aspect ratios, in an unknown order. That's why I'm seeking an 'elegant' (ie common and minimum css) solution... = Nick, then use a css table. Nothing wrong with that. It's a reasonable and elegant solution given the circumstances. drew
Re:[WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
Hi all,
Thanks for those suggestions. Unfortunately, my client requires the
thumbnail galleries to align exactly as I've shown with the table layout -
caption under image.
The test page is at:
http://www.bluemountainsgardener.info/fgtest/max_miller.asp
I cannot control either the height or width of the thumbnails - they vary,
but fit within an imaginary box 100 x 100 pixels.
There are well over 200 thumbnails for a variety of artists.
I just cannot find a CSS way to emulate the table cell attribute
*valign='bottom'*. If I can do that, I can solve the problem.
In the embedded CSS I've used a class table.gallery{vertical-align: bottom;
...} and it works with the table, but it won't work when added to the
.thumbnail class div.
The only other way I could achieve the effect, I think, is write program
code to calculate the amount of padding I would need at the top of *each*
thumbnail and then putting an extra inline style attribute for the img tag -
eg: img class='thumbnail' style='padding-top: (the calculated number)px'
alt=' ' etc ... I can code for that, but I'd rather solve the problem with
CSS.
I think I'm probably getting offlist when I enter program code territory,
though.
I'm wondering whether Russ Weakley has a thought on all this. His tutorial
on floating divs was a tremendous help to me in getting as far as I did.
If we can sort out this problem, I think it could be useful to a lot of
people.
Thanks,
John Penlington
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Re: [WSG] Fw: print page
Dear Maureen Beattie, As Neerav Bhatt said, printing pages exactly as they appear on the screen isn't possible. Eventualy you could use a script to resize print screen images, but you would have to call users permission, an rely on their machines capacitys. Yet, you can give alternative pages for print to the sites users. If the site isn't dynamic, you can make versions on msword, as save them as HTML filtered. Web pages produced on word will carry some non standard css declarations like the size of the page, and measures in non standard units like cm. Cleaning up the code isn't easy, though, this pages carry most word styles you have defined on the program. The tag for the alternative print page will be something like: link rel=alternate media=print href=youralternativepage where youralternativepage can be an office document or any html. The html documents produced on word by saving them as html filtered will carry the following tag: meta name=Generator content=Microsoft Word 11 (filtered) and will carry a word like icon if you look for them on the hard disk. This isn't a clean method, print version pages will be heavy and hard marked up, but it gives supporting browsers all needed information about the printing jobs. If the site isn't relying on images to define the layout (since images sizes on screen depend on the screens resolution) you can use another (much better) method: If you use media=print on a css call or @media on inline style declarations, you are defining styles that will only be used for printing. If you then define the pages as liquid layouts, the probability that they will print well on paper will be quite higher. A call for such a style sheet would be: link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=print href=print.css and an import one: style type=text/css media=print, handheld@import basic.css;/style This will only work for browsers supporting css2 though. Hope it helps, Isabel Santos - Original Message - From: Maureen Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 8:24 AM Subject: [WSG] Fw: print page Hi everybody - my client wants the pages on her site setup so that they print out exactly how they look on the screen. At present the short pages are printing okay but the longer pages are leaving paragraphs out. I would appreciate it if someone could explain how to set this up or point me to a tutorial on the subject. Regards Maureen Beattie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Fw: print page
I would appreciate it if someone could explain how to set this up or point me to a tutorial on the subject. This is a very good article from Alistapart should shed some light on it for you: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/printyourway/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
On Friday, June 25, 2004, at 12:22 AM, John Penlington wrote:
I just cannot find a CSS way to emulate the table cell attribute
*valign='bottom'*. If I can do that, I can solve the problem.
In the embedded CSS I've used a class table.gallery{vertical-align:
bottom;
...} and it works with the table, but it won't work when added to the
.thumbnail class div.
Yup, there's the rub: 'vertical-align' only works on text. I found that
out by TE while trying to solve this one.
I think maybe Drew Trusz has the right approach: use a css table...
BTW, interesting to view your source - the table-based version really
wasn't that much more code than the css-based - and if you use css to
style your table, you'll cut the code even more... Oh, and what's with
the non-breaking spaces in the floated divs? ;-)
Nick
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/
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RE: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
Hi all again! RE: My problem with floated divs in gallery site - and trying to get those thumbnail images to align at the bottom. I've solved the problem - in two ways - and thanks for those suggestions. You'll find the result at: http://www.bluemountainsgardener.info/fgtest/max_miller_solved.asp It shows both solutions - the first using divs and the second using a CSS table. Both are on the same page with CSS embedded. The results look exactly the same in IE6, Mozilla 1.5 and Opera 7.23 I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Apple Mac browsers !! For the div version, I used program code (ASP) to subtract each thumbnail's height from 100 (the maximum height of any thumbnail) and made that the value for *padding-top* as an inline style for the img tag. As each thumbnail is a live link to a bigger image on a different page, I ended up having to add a*border='0'* attribute to the image tag to get rid of the link-induced border around the image plus the padding. This was sloppy coding, I know, but it was so late at night!! You can see the interim solution with that strange effect at: http://localhost/fgtest/max_miller_partly_solved.asp Finally, Nick ... About those non-breaking spaces in the floated divs ... just junk from a much earlier version. I've removed them in the final version. Thanks, everyone for your help. I've really enjoyed this exercise. Only been doing full CSS web standards for the past six months - but very glad I persevered. Cheers, John Penlington * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site
Here is a solution my friend Brian came up with for a gallery page for my class. I need to add the toggle.js script to make the gallery work, and it isn't perfect, but gets the job done. Of course, that creatures image of yours is a real problem. http://www.sdco-op.com/palomar/gallery.html. We are using a background image to fill the space. Have you tried using a series of definition lists? The dt could be the image and the dd could be the title. You could specify the height of the dt. I did some work with this for a previous project and I need to pull up some of those files to look at it again to see what we did. Ted -Original Message-From: Trusz, Andrew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 6:59 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: [WSG] Problem with floated divs in gallery site Nick Gleitzman] Problem with floated divs in gallery site On Thursday, June 24, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Trusz, Andrew wrote: Couple of industrial strength options; both of which I've used. One is purely visual - organize the pictures by height.. No good if the client insists their thumbnails are presented in a specific order - which mine (photographers) invariably do. The alternative is to pad the pictures. That's what I suggested, but it's a labour-intensive solution, and doesn't help me in coding a dynamic site with 5000+ thumbnails - when the thumbs displayed are a (subset and a) result of a database query. In effect, I have to code a page that will have an unknown number of thumbs, with an unknown mix of horizontal and vertical aspect ratios, in an unknown order. That's why I'm seeking an 'elegant' (ie common and minimum css) solution... = Nick, then use a css table. Nothing wrong with that. It's a reasonable and elegant solution given the circumstances. drew
Re: [WSG] IE linked image border grief
Justin French wrote:
If
we had *ascendant* selectors, my problem would be solved, but we don't:
imga { border:0; }
Bowman stopdesign.com solves the problem with a 'noline' class
on his linked image tags, but in this case, I can't edit the source of
the image tag, as it's auto-generated by the CMS. Bugger.
Here's a few ideas:
Use _javascript_. Not perfect, but most users will be alright. The
few who have js off will just get a little extra decoration.
Find a way to target the non-image links. #here a:link {
border-bottom: 1px dotted black; }
Image map
a img {position : relative; bottom:-1}
a img {border-bottom:solid 1px #fff;}
Combination of two previous
If all else fails: claim the underlined img is the desired effect
Re: [WSG] Site looks fine when previewing in IE, but messy in IE online
I believe I got it. You guys helped out a lot, especially Hugh. Can you guys test again to make sure. It looks great on Mac in Safari and IE5.2.3. Can you test on PC please? http://sonze.com/isl/temp/ Thank you, Shane Helm * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Microsoft going to improve Internet Explorer?
http://blogs.msdn.com/dmassy/archive/2004/06/16/157263.aspx Wendy Phillips Job Ready (Learning Development) Customer Sales Service * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
Hi, I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) listed at the WSG section for full CSS sites(http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat9). As today is my Review and Research day, I've been peeking under the hood. If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked around for other examples, but have come to rely on this rather savvy bunch for my final analysis. C * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
Are you serious? Is this possible? Shane On Jun 24, 2004, at 5:48 PM, ckimedia wrote: Hi, I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) listed at the WSG section for full CSS sites(http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat9). As today is my Review and Research day, I've been peeking under the hood. If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked around for other examples, but have come to rely on this rather savvy bunch for my final analysis. C * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
The site may be wonderful in many ways but I dont approve of how they handle an opera user: You are using Opera 7.23 In order to view the online Mercedes Experience, either Netscape 6.2 or above or Internet Explorer 5.x or above is required. We recommend you update your browser by following the links below. Choose a recommended browser: Microsoft Internet Explorer for Windows Microsoft Internet Explorer for Macintosh Netscape -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav ckimedia wrote: Hi, I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) listed at the WSG section for full CSS sites(http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat9). As today is my Review and Research day, I've been peeking under the hood. If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked around for other examples, but have come to rely on this rather savvy bunch for my final analysis. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked They don't serve an alternative layout. Using Javascript they check for the Flash plug-in, and if found they write the Flash code to the document, else they enable a couple of stylesheets. I haven't delved into the scripts or CSS, but looking at the page source, I assume they display:none; the HTML version. If Flash isn't found, the enabled stylesheets make the HTML version visible again. You can see the effect by using this url: http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp?noflash=1 Clever, but not foolproof. No/disabled Javascipt and you get nothing. If you like this idea, you might be interested in Shaun Inman's Flash Replacement technique. http://www.shauninman.com/ -ben * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
On 25/06/2004, at 10:06 AM, Shane Helm wrote: Are you serious? Is this possible? On Jun 24, 2004, at 5:48 PM, ckimedia wrote: Hi, I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) listed at the WSG section for full CSS sites(http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat9). As today is my Review and Research day, I've been peeking under the hood. If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked around for other examples, but have come to rely on this rather savvy bunch for my final analysis. I have no idea if it's *possible*, but I've just disabled Flash in Safari IE5Mac, and all I get is a white page with the footer HTML -- no Flash, and no content in replacement of Flash. So, at the very least, it's not working well -- if at all. Can't find a way to disable the plug-ins in Firefox and Mozilla, so who knows if it works for them, or for IEWin (the big target I guess). --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] RoboDemo 5
I have been actually using it this morning for the first time. My first impression of the product was extremely simple to use. Coming from a flash background, the time you save creating a presentation through robodemo than flash is worth it, and you don't need flash experience. It works well with html as it understands when you click on certain html elements it automatically adds large tooltips for the view to understand whats been clicked on. It lets you choose screen sizes, e.g, PDA, full screen, specific browser resolutions, etc. Have you downloaded the 15 day demo? It lets you export html/swf, though it adds watermarks to the presentation. http://www.macromedia.com/go/tryrobodemo Ian. Hi We are looking at purchasing RoboDemo 5 and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the product - especially in terms of eLearning and user interactivity, accessiblity issues etc. I'm trying to convince my director to buy it! Thanks Helen *** Helen Rysavy Designer / Webmaster Learning Resources Division Charles Darwin University Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
Thats _really_ bad Browser checking is a thing of the past and should be gladly forgotten. Something that we can all thank the web standards project for. Is there a valid reason to do browser checking? I can't think of one... Regards Chris Blown On Fri, 2004-06-25 at 10:30, Neerav wrote: The site may be wonderful in many ways but I dont approve of how they handle an opera user: You are using Opera 7.23 In order to view the online Mercedes Experience, either Netscape 6.2 or above or Internet Explorer 5.x or above is required. We recommend you update your browser by following the links below. Choose a recommended browser: Microsoft Internet Explorer for Windows Microsoft Internet Explorer for Macintosh Netscape * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Microsoft going to improve Internet Explorer?
Phillips, Wendy wrote: http://blogs.msdn.com/dmassy/archive/2004/06/16/157263.aspx SOSDD Wendy. This horse is already bloody, mutilated, and decomposing on the battlefield. After the explosion on Channel9 forums, it irks me that Dave Massy and Tony Chor still gawk at the vague requests when they have an ample amount of specifics from the community. Big improvement, probably not. At the rate the IE team moves, we'll be lucky if they even get anything right with CSS in their Longhorn release. Very disappointed in them. -- Ryan Christie| e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Harrisonburg, VA | w: http://shadyland.theward.net ---() ()-- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Fw: print page
Maureen Publishing some of the sites information to PDF may make your client happy as PDF's will print out exactly how they look on the screen. -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Maureen Beattie wrote: Hi everybody - my client wants the pages on her site setup so that they print out exactly how they look on the screen. At present the short pages are printing okay but the longer pages are leaving paragraphs out. I would appreciate it if someone could explain how to set this up or point me to a tutorial on the subject. Regards Maureen Beattie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
