Re: [WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin

2004-10-17 Thread Andrew Krespanis
Hi all,
I guess I should add my 2 cents as well :)

re: Russ' comments --
> 1. Once you have removed all margin and padding, this method relies on you
> specifically styling the margins and padding of each HTML element that you
> intend to use. On smaller sites where you may only need to style specific
> containers and elements this method is very verbose and wasteful.

Perhaps listing troublesome elements instead of the wildcard selector
would be a more favourable option for some, I prefer the clean slate
approach.
RE: Verbosity; probably, but not necessarily. I've most recently used
this technique with a 5 page brochure-ware site to accompany my band's
upcoming ep and I honestly don't think it added a noticable amount of
weight. The benefits were immedietly noticable -- this site's design
(url not avail. yet) took a 3 lazy hours to code and wasn't checked
once in IE during the coding. Guess what? IE6 was identical in every
way to Moz/FF+Op the very first time! My jaw dropped and I danced
around the house like an idiot while the singer and bass player just
stared at me as though I had lost the plot. I'm not going to pretend
to be some kind of css-jedi that doesn't need to test in IE -- I was
as surprised as anyone else would be. That declaration and a solid
knowledge of when to throw in a 'position:relative;' were entirely
responsible for slashing potentially up to an hour of debugging
(depending on how many early evening beverages were consumed during ;)
 
> 2. If you were to pass your site on to others who were less aware of CSS,
> this method could cause great confusion. The method relies on an
> understanding that any used HTML elements will have to be specifically
> styled.
If you were to pass your site to others who are less aware off css AND
told them that they didn't have to worry about cancelling 'empty
space'  because everything was up to them, this method could cause
great liberation. Well, I doubt it; but you get the idea.
In the cases I've seen - mostly on codingforums.com - beginners
develop bad cases of 'class-itis' due to a fear of using tag name
selectors. This encourages/forces them to address the elements
immedietly and individually; hopefully causing a greater focus on
semantics in the process. ie "What content does this page have? What
tags will I use?" instead of "Hmm... better use another div for this
sentance". High hopes, I know :\

We can't on the one hand say "Don't rely on browser defaults" and on
the other say "don't screw with the defaults -- future code monkeys
will be confused".
Each to their own; but you knew I wasn't going to agree from the get go.

Lachlan wrote:
>I found out later that a significant portion of the class has now
adopted it for their own stylesheets.
That's fantastic :D I didn't think anyone would even care about such a
simple tactic. Many thanks for sharing!

...and to finally get to Nick's question:
Personally, I don't think I'll ever stop using it; but there's no
prize for guessing I was going to say that. All the client sites I've
done since using this trick (none of which have been added to my
folio...Damn I'm slack!) have had the CSS split up into:
- default.css [page layout only]
- type.css [all global typography, starting with declarations like p,
pre, blockquote, etc...]
- any other site specific stuff (eg. menu.css)
Splitting the css into positioning and typography can be very helpful
in conjunction to the global reset, but you have to have your wits
about you to keep things neat and well ordered.

-- Andrew

http://leftjustified.net
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Re: [WSG] Appreciate browser check, please

2004-10-17 Thread Lyn Patterson
Hi Natalie
It sure is !  Thanks for checking.
Lyn
Natalie Buxton wrote:
Seems to be working fine on Mac  - Mozilla/Safari and on Windows XP Mozilla/IE.
My sis lives in Mandurah, Im from Perth, and family is from Midland.
What a small world this interweb is
 

   

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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Michael Dale
The only other one I have is this:

http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/w3c_xhtml.png (html 1.0).

Michael Dale
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: Rick Faaberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:19:30 +1000
Subject: Re: [WSG] w3c badges


> On 10/17/04 8:58 PM "Michael Dale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent this out:
> 
> > Here are two nicer looking ones
> > 
> > http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/validx.gif (xhtml 1.1)
> > http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/validc.gif (css)
> > 
> > Michael Dale
> 
> Those are pretty nice! Are there more?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick Faaberg
> 
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Joseph Lindsay
< my 2c >
Good: It helps promote standards
Not so good: you look like a pratt if it doesn't validate

I think it's a matter of personal taste.  I use text links on my
sites, but not on sites I develop for work

I think it you do use them, it's probably good to have an explanation
(alt, title or fuller explanation?) somewhere for the users that don't
have a clue what they mean.



On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:34:38 +1000, Jason Foss
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Customers don't really care - it's true - but I've started using those
> "Steal these Buttons" ones (on clients' sites as well) to try and help build
> awareness.  I don't think it does any harm...
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rick Faaberg
> Sent: Monday, 18 October 2004 2:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [WSG] w3c badges
> 
> > I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows
> > nor cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for
> > self-congratulation and brownie points from other developers and
> > standards zealots. I'd certainly think twice (or more) before putting them
> on a client's site.
> 
> What is your opinion (and practice) with regard to putting the W3C badges on
> you clients' sites?
> 
> I'm thinking "just don't do it".
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rick Faaberg
> 
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Rick Faaberg
On 10/17/04 8:58 PM "Michael Dale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent this out:

> Here are two nicer looking ones
> 
> http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/validx.gif (xhtml 1.1)
> http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/validc.gif (css)
> 
> Michael Dale

Those are pretty nice! Are there more?

Thanks

Rick Faaberg

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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Kevin Futter
I think for most clients you just don't go there - after all, it's their
site, not yours. They don't know or care about web standards, and neither do
their clients - it just doesn't mean anything to them, so is hardly useful
for evangelical purposes. Imagine if all TV commercials had a "SMPTE" banner
splashed across their final moments ...

(Still, there are always exceptions.)

Cheers,
Kevin

On 18/10/04 2:08 PM, "Rick Faaberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor
>> cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and
>> brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly
>> think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site.
> 
> What is your opinion (and practice) with regard to putting the W3C badges on
> you clients' sites?
> 
> I'm thinking "just don't do it".
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rick Faaberg
> 
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RE: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Jason Foss
Customers don't really care - it's true - but I've started using those
"Steal these Buttons" ones (on clients' sites as well) to try and help build
awareness.  I don't think it does any harm...

Jason
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Faaberg
Sent: Monday, 18 October 2004 2:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] w3c badges

> I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows 
> nor cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for 
> self-congratulation and brownie points from other developers and 
> standards zealots. I'd certainly think twice (or more) before putting them
on a client's site.

What is your opinion (and practice) with regard to putting the W3C badges on
you clients' sites?

I'm thinking "just don't do it".

Best,

Rick Faaberg

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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Rick Faaberg
> I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor
> cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and
> brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly
> think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site.

What is your opinion (and practice) with regard to putting the W3C badges on
you clients' sites?

I'm thinking "just don't do it".

Best,

Rick Faaberg

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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Michael Dale
Here are two nicer looking ones

http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/validx.gif (xhtml 1.1)
http://blog.dalegroup.net/images/validc.gif (css)

Michael Dale
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: Rick Faaberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:50:25 +1000
Subject: [WSG] w3c badges


> Hi all,
> 
> Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot
> more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites?
> 
> Or do I just put up text that says "W3C Valid"? Is that what you do?
> 
> Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first
> place?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rick Faaberg
> 
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> 
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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> 

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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Ryan Christie
You're free to make your own W3C badges to place on your site. Most 
people I see, incl. myself, just use text links in the footer. W3C won't 
hunt you down for infringement or anything.

You're right though, if they had some quality official badges that 
didn't stick out like a sore thumb, I'd probably use them alot more 
often. :)

Rick Faaberg wrote:
Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot
more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites?
Or do I just put up text that says "W3C Valid"? Is that what you do?
Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first
place?
Best,
Rick Faaberg
--
Ryan Christie| e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Harrisonburg, VA | w: http://theward.net
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Paul Ross
Have you seen these...?
http://www.antipixel.com/blog/archives/2002/10/22/steal_these_buttons.html
I made orange versions for my own home page

Regards - PAUL ROSS
SkyRocket Design Co
http://www.skyrocket.com.au

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:50:25 -0700, Rick Faaberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges
a lot more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on
my sites?
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Kevin Futter
Hi Rick,

You're not tied to using the W3C images, and there are a few good
replacements around. I'm using a pretty common set of examples on the front
page of my site (http://www.klp.com.au/). They're not mine, and I've
forgotten exactly where I borrowed them from (so apologies to the original
creator), but they are free to use (otherwise I wouldn't be using them).

I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor
cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and
brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly
think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site.

Cheers,
Kevin

On 18/10/04 12:50 PM, "Rick Faaberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot
> more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites?
> 
> Or do I just put up text that says "W3C Valid"? Is that what you do?
> 
> Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first
> place?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rick Faaberg
> 
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **



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RE: [WSG] Off Topic - Usability question for WSG members

2004-10-17 Thread Herrod, Lisa
Sorry everyone, I hadn't realised.

Thanks for the email.

Lisa


-Original Message-
From: Hugh Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 1:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Off Topic - Usability question for WSG members


Lisa,

Not answering your question, but as far as usability of the *WSG list* 
is concerned, please remember to use plain text emails. Sorry that you 
happen to be the one who cops criticism this time, but could all list 
members please remember *not* to use HTML emails.

In your case, Lisa (and in many others) your text looks really tiny in 
my email program, which affects legibility.

:) Hugh Todd

> What I'd like to know is your personal opinion of what you think 
> impacts the user experience both positively and negatively.

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Re: [WSG] Off Topic - Usability question for WSG members

2004-10-17 Thread Hugh Todd
Lisa,
Not answering your question, but as far as usability of the *WSG list* 
is concerned, please remember to use plain text emails. Sorry that you 
happen to be the one who cops criticism this time, but could all list 
members please remember *not* to use HTML emails.

In your case, Lisa (and in many others) your text looks really tiny in 
my email program, which affects legibility.

:) Hugh Todd
What I'd like to know is your personal opinion of what you think 
impacts the user experience both positively and negatively.
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Zulema
Maybe you can try making your own here: http://kalsey.com/tools/buttonmaker/  You can 
make the colors match your site.
hope that helps,
Zulema
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Z u l e m a  O r t i z
W e b  D e s i g n e r
email   : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website : http://zoblue.com/
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Rick Faaberg wrote:
Hi all,
Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot
more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites?
Or do I just put up text that says "W3C Valid"? Is that what you do?
Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first
place?
Best,
Rick Faaberg
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[WSG] Off Topic - Usability question for WSG members

2004-10-17 Thread Herrod, Lisa



Hello all,All of us here are interested in 
the use of web standards for various reasons including the positive impact it 
has on the user experience.Add these considerations to the interface 
design and there's a lot of things to consider with regard to the final impact 
on the end user.What I'd like to know is your personal opinion of what 
you think impacts the user experience both positively and negatively. This might 
be based on testing you've done, research, reading or intuition, but what I 
want is your personal ideas on:1) The 5 most common usability 
issues that typically hinder a positive user experience.2) The 5 most 
common usability issues that typically add to a positive user 
experience.    Listing 1 as the highest rating and 5 as 
the lowest rating.
Also if you could indicate your role (eg web 
designer, programmer, educator etc) and whether or not you have completed user 
testing in the past, that would be great.
My intention is to compile all answers and 
report back to the list once more with the final results. No respondants or the 
organisation for which they work will be identified personally. The information 
is being gathered for personal interest only and will not be used in any way for 
commercial use or profit.Please reply to me off-list. 
Thanks in advance,
Lisa


Re: [WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin

2004-10-17 Thread Nick Lo
Thanks for the reply Russ, I agree that it's really down to the 
situation.

Some further thoughts from your points:
Smaller sites would presumably have less people working on them and 
therefore the issue of confusion is possibly less relevant, though the 
problem of verbosity may be. On the other hand presumably in most cases 
you'd be starting from a "base" stylesheet anyway so verbosity with 
regards to maintenance may not be an issue either. That really leaves 
potentially heavy stylesheets and hence file sizes.

On larger sites I wonder if the verbosity issue balances out ...e.g. 
you don't specifically need to set margins:0; padding: 0; on numerous 
elements just as you do need to set them otherwise on other elements. 
However, the introduction of new, and therefore "zero'd" elements (e.g. 
an  in an article added by a CMS) is a good point.

So to narrow down my original question:
How do those who use it find the balance between file size/verbosity 
and the debugging benefits/time saving?

Thanks,
Nick
1. Once you have removed all margin and padding, this method relies on 
you
specifically styling the margins and padding of each HTML element that 
you
intend to use. On smaller sites where you may only need to style 
specific
containers and elements this method is very verbose and wasteful.

2. If you were to pass your site on to others who were less aware of 
CSS,
this method could cause great confusion. The method relies on an
understanding that any used HTML elements will have to be specifically
styled.

You may have styled all elements you needed at the time, but what if a 
new
element was added by someone else at a later date? They may have no 
idea why
the element does not operate like it should.
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[WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Rick Faaberg
Hi all,

Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot
more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites?

Or do I just put up text that says "W3C Valid"? Is that what you do?

Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first
place?

Best,

Rick Faaberg

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Re: [WSG] Urgent Help, why is site flaking out on Mac 5.2?

2004-10-17 Thread Paul Ross
It's broken in Firefox 1.0PR as well (iMAC running OSX 10.2.8) but
looks OK in Safari. You have the logo top left in a separate div to
the header for some reason. Why not make it one div running across the
page width? Or, take off the height 100px from #homecorner and make
the BG colour black.

Regards
PAUL ROSS
SkyRocket Design Co
http://www.skyrocket.com.au

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:38:39 -0500 (CDT), [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can you look at a site for me and tell me why it's degrading so badly under Mac 5.2? 
>  Working well on most other browsers that I've checked, but if you have a different 
> one and want to test and let me know, I would appreciate that.
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Re: [WSG] Validator error

2004-10-17 Thread Mordechai Peller
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Well, I tried recreating a simple document like the one you describe, 
with missing ALT attribute on the image...but can't seem to reproduce 
the slew of errors you're reporting. Any chance you can upload the 
broken page so we can have a look if there's anything specific to your 
document that may be causing this behaviour? 
I should clear up two points: there were non-SGML character warnings 
and, since I fixed the problem, what I would like to know is "Why?" (I 
suppose my post was in part a rant, but only in part.)

Try:


—Test

Thanks.
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Re: [WSG] Appreciate browser check, please

2004-10-17 Thread Natalie Buxton
Seems to be working fine on Mac  - Mozilla/Safari and on Windows XP Mozilla/IE.

My sis lives in Mandurah, Im from Perth, and family is from Midland.
What a small world this interweb is.

:)


On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:24:45 +0100, Jorge Laranjo
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry for the attachment.
> Ok, from now on i'll send them to the person concerned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:51:00 +1000, Nick Gleitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On 18 Oct 2004, at 12:33 AM, Jorge Laranjo wrote:
> >
> > > Looks good in Safari 1.2.3 (v 125.9) in the Mac OS X.
> > > In Attach i send you a Shoot of that look...
> >
> > Jorge - please, no attachments to this list. 100KB+ for a message is
> > too big. If you would like to help out with screenshots, send them
> > off-list to the person concerned. Thanks -
> > Nick
> > ___
> > Omnivision. Websight.
> > http://www.omnivision.com.au/
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> 
> --
> Atentamente,
> Jorge Laranjo
> 
> email > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> site > http://lesi.host.sk/fueg0/
> msn > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> aim > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> jabber > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin

2004-10-17 Thread James Ellis
Not sure about the * declaration but the 11 browsers intrigues me? What 
joe bloggs user out there looks at a website in 11 browsers? Broken to 
us in Netscape 4 might mean "works fine" to the Netscape 4 user.

If one browser gives me 2px padding and another gives me 1px then I'm 
not fussed as long as the content is readable and understandable.

Cheers
James
Nick Lo wrote:
It doesn’t seem like much at first, but wait till you look at your 
mildly styled form in 11 browsers to find the positioning identical in 
all of them; or your button-style lists are perfect the first time, 
every time."

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Re: [WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin

2004-10-17 Thread Lachlan Hardy
Nick Lo wrote:
I was just reading the article excerpted below and was curious as to how 
many on the list have used this technique of initially setting all 
padding and margins to 0 and if so how successful was it?
Well, I've used it a few times since I read that article and it rocks
In the relatively short time since then I've included in two of my own 
projects and suggested its use to a student. In the former case, I've 
found the added control makes everything so much easier. In the latter 
case it allowed her to centre her inline unordered list (she was 
seriously struggling with her navigation), and a few other things on her 
page all fell into place. I found out later that a significant portion 
of the class has now adopted it for their own stylesheets

I haven't encountered any problems with its use yet. I can't really 
envisage any. Obviously you need to add padding and margins specifically 
to most elements now, but I find that a benefit. After all, I rarely 
rely on default values for lists, paragraphs or headings

So thanks to Andrew (who I believe is a member?). I don't know why I 
never thought of it before, especially after Eric Meyer's article on 
removing default CSS; but I didn't, so kudos to you

In other words, Nick, I say use it all the time. I am
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Re: [WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin

2004-10-17 Thread russ - maxdesign
Hi Nick,
I think this is very interesting but I have two problems with it:

1. Once you have removed all margin and padding, this method relies on you
specifically styling the margins and padding of each HTML element that you
intend to use. On smaller sites where you may only need to style specific
containers and elements this method is very verbose and wasteful.

This means you are almost replicating aspects of the supposed default
browser style sheet:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/sample.html

2. If you were to pass your site on to others who were less aware of CSS,
this method could cause great confusion. The method relies on an
understanding that any used HTML elements will have to be specifically
styled.

You may have styled all elements you needed at the time, but what if a new
element was added by someone else at a later date? They may have no idea why
the element does not operate like it should.

For example, what if you never needed a blockquote (and therefore never
specifically styled this element) but someone needed in the future? They may
be very confused why the blockquote had no margins  - which it normally
would in default behaviour.

A softer option may be to do this on specific troublesome elements (by
troublesome I mean ones that may vary greatly across browsers). For example;
forms, fieldsets, submit buttons etc.

Like anything, I guess it comes down the the needs of the site and the
developer.

2c
Russ



> I was just reading the article excerpted below and was curious as to
> how many on the list have used this technique of initially setting all
> padding and margins to 0 and if so how successful was it?
> 
> * {
>   padding:0;
>   margin:0;
> }

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Re: [WSG] Validator error

2004-10-17 Thread Anton
you got it.
This link from the w3 might help (I hope):
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/sgml/entities.html
I try to stick with the alpha-based entities anyway, so that when I look at it
later, I can easily recall which character I used.

> I don't have an answer, but can I add to the question?
>
> I get 'non-SGML character' warnings (NB warnings, not errors) when I
> use, say, & instead of & to escape an ampersand. Which syntax
> fpr character entities is correct? Or does it depend on the charset
> specified in the Content-Type? I understand that & is Unicode, but
> I always (well, usually) specify iso-8859-1. Is this why I'm getting
> these warnings? Should I stick to the alpha-based entity descriptions
> for iso-8859-1?
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[WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin

2004-10-17 Thread Nick Lo
I was just reading the article excerpted below and was curious as to 
how many on the list have used this technique of initially setting all 
padding and margins to 0 and if so how successful was it?


"A big part of dealing with cross-browser differences is accounting for 
the default property values of elements in each browser; namely padding 
and margin. I use the following declaration in every new site I design; 
it has saved me many hours of nitpicking.

* {
   padding:0;
   margin:0;
}
It doesn’t seem like much at first, but wait till you look at your 
mildly styled form in 11 browsers to find the positioning identical in 
all of them; or your button-style lists are perfect the first time, 
every time."

http://leftjustified.net/journal/2004/10/07/css-negotiation/

Thanks,
Nick
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Re: [WSG] Validator error

2004-10-17 Thread Nick Gleitzman
On 18 Oct 2004, at 6:05 AM, Mordechai Peller wrote:
Let me start by saying that I have enough experience with syntax 
checker
to know that the error message doesn't always point to the right place
and that one error can generate many messages. But that being said, I
think this one takes the cake.

The DOCTYPE was set to XHTML 1.0 STRICT and the page had an image
missing an alt attribute on line 68 so of course it didn't validate. 
But
instead of just a "Line 68, column 104: required attribute "alt" not
specified," I got eight more errors, five before and three after, all
"reference to non-SGML character." Fix the missing alt error and
everything else validates.

What's going on?
I don't have an answer, but can I add to the question?
I get 'non-SGML character' warnings (NB warnings, not errors) when I 
use, say, & instead of & to escape an ampersand. Which syntax 
fpr character entities is correct? Or does it depend on the charset 
specified in the Content-Type? I understand that & is Unicode, but 
I always (well, usually) specify iso-8859-1. Is this why I'm getting 
these warnings? Should I stick to the alpha-based entity descriptions 
for iso-8859-1?

Thx - N
___
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http://www.omnivision.com.au/
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Re: [WSG] Validator error

2004-10-17 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Well, I tried recreating a simple document like the one you describe, 
with missing ALT attribute on the image...but can't seem to reproduce 
the slew of errors you're reporting. Any chance you can upload the 
broken page so we can have a look if there's anything specific to your 
document that may be causing this behaviour?

Patrick
Mordechai Peller wrote:
Let me start by saying that I have enough experience with syntax checker
to know that the error message doesn't always point to the right place
and that one error can generate many messages. But that being said, I
think this one takes the cake.
The DOCTYPE was set to XHTML 1.0 STRICT and the page had an image
missing an alt attribute on line 68 so of course it didn't validate. But
instead of just a "Line 68, column 104: required attribute "alt" not
specified," I got eight more errors, five before and three after, all
"reference to non-SGML character." Fix the missing alt error and
everything else validates.
What's going on?
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--
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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[WSG] Validator error

2004-10-17 Thread Mordechai Peller
Let me start by saying that I have enough experience with syntax checker
to know that the error message doesn't always point to the right place
and that one error can generate many messages. But that being said, I
think this one takes the cake.
The DOCTYPE was set to XHTML 1.0 STRICT and the page had an image
missing an alt attribute on line 68 so of course it didn't validate. But
instead of just a "Line 68, column 104: required attribute "alt" not
specified," I got eight more errors, five before and three after, all
"reference to non-SGML character." Fix the missing alt error and
everything else validates.
What's going on?
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Re: [WSG] Appreciate browser check, please

2004-10-17 Thread Jorge Laranjo
Sorry for the attachment.
Ok, from now on i'll send them to the person concerned


On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 00:51:00 +1000, Nick Gleitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On 18 Oct 2004, at 12:33 AM, Jorge Laranjo wrote:
> 
> > Looks good in Safari 1.2.3 (v 125.9) in the Mac OS X.
> > In Attach i send you a Shoot of that look...
> 
> Jorge - please, no attachments to this list. 100KB+ for a message is
> too big. If you would like to help out with screenshots, send them
> off-list to the person concerned. Thanks -
> Nick
> ___
> Omnivision. Websight.
> http://www.omnivision.com.au/
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
> 
> 


-- 
Atentamente,
Jorge Laranjo

email > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site > http://lesi.host.sk/fueg0/
msn > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jabber > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] Appreciate browser check, please

2004-10-17 Thread Nick Gleitzman
On 18 Oct 2004, at 12:33 AM, Jorge Laranjo wrote:
Looks good in Safari 1.2.3 (v 125.9) in the Mac OS X.
In Attach i send you a Shoot of that look...
Jorge - please, no attachments to this list. 100KB+ for a message is 
too big. If you would like to help out with screenshots, send them 
off-list to the person concerned. Thanks -
Nick
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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[WSG] A blog about css

2004-10-17 Thread Jorge Laranjo
Hi there folks!
I'm portuguese but i run an English Blog about CSS.
Please contribute for the cause and leave your comments.
The URL is http://lesi.host.sk/fueg0/
Hope that can be useful.

Thanks and keep the good work.

-- 
Atentamente,
Jorge Laranjo

email > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site > http://lesi.host.sk/fueg0/
msn > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jabber > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] Adding full doctype to pages

2004-10-17 Thread Lyn Patterson
Thanks, Kay.  I have just posted the pages asking for a browser check so 
will give that a day or two then I will add the full doctype to the 
relevant pages and post again.

Kind regards
Lyn
Kay Smoljak wrote:
Hi Lyn,
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:09:28 +0800, Lyn Patterson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

I am using the full doc type http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";> on my main page.
I thought I should add it to all the other pages but when I did so, the
contents of the left column  moved towards the center in IE and Opera
so I took it off and things reverted to normal.
   

You should definitely have a full doctype on every page - without it
your pages are not valid. The differences are due to IE and Opera
going into "quirks mode" - emulating old (bad) browser behaviour -
when no doctype is present.
If you post the pages exhibiting the problem, I'm sure someone here
will be able to give you some idea as to why.
Cheers,
Kay.
 

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Re: [WSG] Adding full doctype to pages

2004-10-17 Thread Kay Smoljak
Hi Lyn,

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:09:28 +0800, Lyn Patterson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am using the full doc type  Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";> on my main page.
> 
> I thought I should add it to all the other pages but when I did so, the
> contents of the left column  moved towards the center in IE and Opera
> so I took it off and things reverted to normal.

You should definitely have a full doctype on every page - without it
your pages are not valid. The differences are due to IE and Opera
going into "quirks mode" - emulating old (bad) browser behaviour -
when no doctype is present.

If you post the pages exhibiting the problem, I'm sure someone here
will be able to give you some idea as to why.

Cheers,
Kay.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com/
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[WSG] Some links for light reading (17/10/04)

2004-10-17 Thread russ - maxdesign
Validation is being argued about again. It began with this post:
http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/10/abcnews-redesigns

Which received some interesting comments via WASP:
http://webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2004_10.html#a000460

Then posts followed thick and fast:
http://www.7nights.com/asterisk/archive/2004/10/standards-equals-validation#
more
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200410/abc_news_all_that_glitters/
http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/10/14/
http://annevankesteren.nl/archives/2004/10/standards

There are heaps more posts on the subject but on to other stuff...

Writing Lean CSS
http://www.orderedlist.com/articles/writing_lean_css

A few tips for using Lynx:
http://www.brainstormsandraves.com/articles/browsers/lynx/

Unearthing the origins of Firefox:
http://news.com.com/Unearthing+the+origins+of+Firefox/2008-1032_3-5406708.ht
ml

Visited Links and Updates
http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/70.php

Styling even more form controls:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200410/styling_even_more_form_controls
/

Introduction to Databases:
http://digital-web.com/articles/introduction_to_databases/

Thanks
Russ



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