Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity
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Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity
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Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity
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Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity
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Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity
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Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity
I am on vacation until 5 January 2009. If it's urgent, you can contact me on: m. 0429 348 132 e. ge...@dhillon-pack.net Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] Decorative bolding
C. b class=logo On 12/2/08 9:55 AM, Rachel May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I have a client who requires part of their name to be bolded within the body text for brand reasons. This I see as decorative, therefore it would not be correct to strong it... Do I: a. Use the b tag, or... b. Use a span tag and bold it using CSS? The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Thierry wrote (in the linked article, not his post): DIVs are meaningless and cannot represent the structure of a document Really? According to the HTML 3.2 spec, where they first appear: DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div See also: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg29003.html Geoff *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Al Sparber wrote: The problem is with the standard. If one gets too hung up on semantic markup then there is the risk of bending the logical or implied semantics of an element to suit ones project. I submit that in the absence of a perfectly specific semantically correct element for a given task, a DIV becomes, by default, the logical choice. It's not by default at all - it's by design: a DIV is exactly the correct element to use when you want to divide a document into divisions or sections. The world, and everything in it, is a list. Ordered or unordered? I guess it depends on your faith or lack of it. Maybe a definition list for the platonists out there. (And I though it was all waves and particles :) James Pickering wrote: Also see the W3C HTML 4.01 Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#edef-DIV I've read it - see the last link in my last post, where I pointed out the progression of the DIV element in the various HTML specs: 3.2: used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions 4.01: a generic mechanism for adding structure to documents 5 (draft): The div element represents nothing at all Geoff *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Appropriate use of the ABBR tag and Roman Numerals
Since they're Roman numerals, shouldn't there be a lang=la in there somewhere? Geoff. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Opera for Nintendo Wii and CSS
I've been looking around the Opera site, but can't find answers to the following: Does Opera on the Wii support handlheld and/or projection stylesheets? SVG? Also, is SVG supported on the Nintendo DS browser? Thanks, Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
McLaughlin, Gail G wrote: We always ask the client if they require that the site comply with accessibility. The response ranges from What is accessibility? to we'll worry about that later to No! Why bother asking? You don't need you clients' permission to build a site properly. Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
Tony Crockford wrote: we don't have finders-keepers and it's mine, I saw it first or give it to me or I'll pull your hair as social rules outside the playground (and I suspect our educators are doing their best to change those rules too...) Well, actually we do. What do you think happened when the Europeans got to the new world? This debate really boils down to rights versus obligations. I suspect that the people on this list inhabit the full political spectrum from socialist to libertarian, so we will never get any agreement on the issue. Maybe we should just let it lie. Geoff == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ABC News Online have a new website
AFAIK, the ABC News developers aren't subcribed to this list, but I've forwarded the feedback here to them. Cheers, Geoff Pack _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Pollard Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2007 19:12 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] ABC News Online have a new website Pete Ottery wrote: http://abc.net.au/news/ someone out there on the list must have been involved :) surely give us the goss about how it went/is going. congrats Indeed, it would be nice to hear a bit more from the folks involved at the ABC. But before we sing too many praises... when I view the site using my very popular windows mobile 5 enabled smartphone (running Internet Explorer Mobile) it looks terrible and I cannot see any of the stories. The last ABC news website looked far better on my phone than the new site. No mobile style sheet! BTW looks OK on Mozilla's Minimo and great on Opera MINI. Brad - Original Message - From: Peter Ottery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] ABC News Online have a new website Brad wrote: Really enjoying the new ABC News website here in Australia. http://abc.net.au/news/ ditto - love it. an amazing achievement to get that up and out. i particularly like the nice little attention to detail like the css hovers/icons on the links and the inline video. the video section itself is hot too - the my playlist thing is very slick. although the play playlist link could scream out a bit more. someone out there on the list must have been involved :) surely give us the goss about how it went/is going. congrats. pete ottery == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Safari now on Windows
This will be interesting... Safari 3 Public Beta: http://www.apple.com/safari/ == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Divs and Sections (was: What does Semantic mean?)
Lucien Stals wrote: A DIV (and a SPAN for that matter) are purely structural, not semantic. The only difference between a div and a span is that one is a block level element, and the other is an inline element. Apart from that, they have the same semantic meaning, which is none at all. And then he quotes the the HTML 4.01 Specification: The DIV and SPAN elements, in conjunction with the id and class attributes, offer a generic mechanism for adding structure to documents. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-DIV Well, the HTML 3.2 Reference Specification defined the DIV as: DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div And now the HTML 5 Working Draft says: The div element represents nothing at all. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#div How the mighty have fallen... Now we are to get a new Section element: The section element represents a generic document or application section. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-section And around we all go... == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Map of Australia Image Map
If the image is a map, and you want to link areas of it, then an image map is the semantically correct solution. Faking them with lists and CSS is no better than using tables for layout IMHO. Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ive given up on css
Robert O'Rourke wrote: If you haven't clicked around wizwebz yet go to the 'what will it cost me' page for the best midi ever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakety_Sax == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Talking about tabular data...
table captionTable of Malcontents/caption thead tr thName/th thComments/th /tr /thead tbody tr tdMe/td tdIs this tabular data?/td /tr tr tdMe supsmall2/small/sup/td tdShould this be a definition list?/td /tr tr tdMe supsmall3/small/sup/td tdWhat if I add a third/td tdcolumn?/td /tr tr tdMe supsmall4/small/sup/td tdIs it wrong to nest a table in a mailing list?/td /tr /tbody /table == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
Vlad Alexander wrote: Nancy Johnson wrote: I believe best practices are to have all images in a directory entitled images Hi Nancy, I would not encourage this practice. There are two types of images on Web site - site level images (mostly used in page layout like logos, buttons, backgrounds, etc.) and document level images (images used by a given document). If you put all images into the images folder, it's like putting things into a black hole; things go it but never come out. The problem is just by looking at the files in the images folder, you have no idea which documents are referencing them so you are not sure if you can ever delete them. The best file system way to manage images that I found so far is to create folders with the ID of the document and then place all document level files like images and attachments (pdf, doc, etc.) into these folders. When you delete a document, you can then delete the folder associated with this document. One technique I use is to put all background images in the same folder as the css. I only use 'images' folders for actual content images. Ideally there won't be any other sort. Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Employee Hierarchy in CSS
Hi Sarah, I agree with Jay - it should be a nested list, but I'd avoid floats completely and use absolute positioning to lay it out. I'd also change the nesting to reflect the org structure, not just the level. Assuming the managers report to the GM, then: ul id=orgChart liMD ul liFC/li liGM ul liManager 1/li liManager 2/li liManager 3/li liManager 4/li liManager 5/li liManager 6/li liManager 7/li /ul /li liPA/li /ul /li /ul See: http://www.virtualgeoff.com/misc/orgChart.html with background image: http://www.virtualgeoff.com/misc/orgChartB.html cheers, Geoff == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Employee Hierarchy in CSS
Sarah Peeke wrote: That looks great. I like the idea of the background image, and I especially like the mugshot! :) See: http://www.virtualgeoff.com/misc/orgChart.html with background image: http://www.virtualgeoff.com/misc/orgChartB.html A couple of thoughts: 1. Would it be possible to center the chart within a fixed width design Just wrap it in a div and center that. Or use absolute positioning on the outermost UL and position it exactly where you want it. (eg http://www.xert.com.au/chart/chart.html) 2. When the font size is increased, the design should ideally *not* break the fixed width design. Change the positioning from ems to pixels and it won't resize when you change font sizes. Just allow enough space so that the text doesn't start overlapping things until it get really big. 3. If styles are switched off, it's a bit ugly having the background image sitting there. Make it a background image on the wrapper div. (issues with printing though). cheers, Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Confusing the users...
Jason Turnbull wrote: Terrence Wood wrote: Jakob Nielsen responded to my request for clarification Jacob has used this request for his latest article http://www.useit.com/alertbox/within_page_links.html Regards Jason Ignoring the discussion of in-page links and jumping straight to the meta-issue: Jacob writes: Anything else is a violation of the users' expectations and makes them feel insecure in their mastery of the Web. If the users don't understand a particular feature of the web, one that's been around since its very beginning, then they (damn well) should feel insecure in their mastery. They are not masters (yet). If we don't confuse the users occaissionly, how will they ever learn that there is more to it than they think, and how will they ever increase their knowledge. Or do we just dumb everything down until we have some small subset that everyone understands? cheers, Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library
Wow Ted, This is seriously cool. Haven't looked through it all yet, but I know I'm going to be using some of this code. The Graded Browser Support page http://developer.yahoo.net/yui/articles/gbs/gbs.html is particularly relevant for this forum. Thanks, Geoff Ted Drake wrote: Hi All As you may know, Yahoo has been hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention purchasing great companies like flickr and de.licio.us. Now, they have opened that wealth of talent to you for free. Yes, I'm pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is really good stuff. They've released an open-source platform of standards-based code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the China related snickering), I'm talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data transfer protocol. So, enough of the sales pitch (I had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE7 Compatibility Team
Cade Whitbourn wrote: Wow. Microsoft are taking very pro-active measures to assist the developer community in fixing sites for IE7. I received an email from someone on the 'IE7 compatibility team' with a screenshot of our site in IE7 and a list of all our stylesheets with all the filters and hacks identified that we may need to modify. I'm impressed. Have other site owners received any similar contact from the IE7CPTTM yet? I would send them back a list of the css bugs they should fix so the filters and hacks that no longer work in IE7 won't be needed anyway. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Which unit is better for web site font size?
Pixels per inch (PPI) That's what I like about standards. The rest of the world uses the Metric system, yet we are stuck with these archaic units because the U.S. refuses to get with the program. How's that for a 'moral high horse'? ;) cheers, Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of liorean Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 8:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Which unit is better for web site font size? On 01/02/06, Brian Cummiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minh D. Tran wrote: My personal preference has always been pt. I've looked at many professional source codes and alot of them uses px or % to measure size of items (divs, img, etc), em for positioning, and pt for font sizes. pt is for PRINT media, not screen. Wrong. Points are for all devices that operate at different ppi* than 96. Points have a locked points per logical inch resolution of 72. Pixels vary depending on ppi. So, if a medium has 96 ppi then a 12pt text will be rendered as 12*96/72=16px. If a medium has 120 ppi, then the same 12pt text will be rendered as 12*120/72=20px. If a device has 300 ppi, the 12pt text will be rendered as 12*300/72=50px. And the reverse is also true. That means that 16px text on a 96 ppi medium will be rendered the same size as 16*72/96=12pt. If a medium has 120 ppi, 16px text will be rendered as 16*72/120=9.6pt, and if a medium has 300 ppi the 16px text will be rendered as 16*72/300=3.84pt. ...except for the fact that the CSS reference pixel is defined at about 1/96 inch and not the actual medium pixels, so a smart renderer that knows about it's medium's ppi might scale it and thus make sure that 16px=12pt is always true. That knowledge or it's implementation for that matter is not guaranteed, however. * Pixels per logical inch, which is about equivalent to dots per physical inch as is used in print media. Default in Windows is 96 (Windows even calls it DPI), or 120 for large size. -- David liorean Andersson uri:http://liorean.web-graphics.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] The dilemma: tabular data with sublevels
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Also worth considering as an alternative: break it down into a two-step process. Show the nested list, with the items as links. Clicking the link takes you to the specific page about that item, with options to add/edit/delete. Do both: single link for accessibility and old browsers, some DOM scripting to add all the links for the rest. e.g. http://www.dhillon-pack.net/editMenuList.htm cheers, Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Google and HTML5
Christian Montoya wrote: On 1/25/06, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could have: html head/head body header/header nav/nav article/article aside/aside footer/footer /body /html If you are going to make a tag for every element on the page you might as well just serve an xml document with a stylesheet. I assume everyone knows this can be done, yes? It's not like we are talking about something new. Yeah, I know. The point is that these five elements are standardised in the Web Apps 1.0 Spec [HTML 5]. If you went down the XML route, you'd still need to write a spec or a DTD if you wanted your elements to become standardised. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] The dilemma: tabular data with sublevels
How about this:
style type=text/cssli span {float:right; margin-right:30%;}/style
ul
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanItem 1
ul
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanSubItem 1.1
ul
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanSubItem 1.1.1/li
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanSubItem 1.1.2/li
/ul
/li
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanSubItem 1.2/li
/ul
/li
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanItem 2
ul
lispan[ Add | Edit | Delete ] /spanSubItem 2.1/li
/ul
/li
/ul
You could even do a little DOM scripting to add the edit menu dynamically when
an item is clicked.
cheers,
Geoff
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer
[Addictive Media]
Sent: Friday, 27 January 2006 11:46 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] The dilemma: tabular data with sublevels
I am tearing my hair out over the decision on how to best
format following
data:
We start with a list of items and subitems:
Item 1
- SubItem 1.1
- SubItem 1.1.1
- SubItem 1.1.2
- Subitem 1.2
Item 2
- SubItem 2.1
...
Sounds very much like a collection of LIs, right? Well, the
problem is that
for each Item and SubItem we will have links that allow the
user to edit
them:
[Add] [Edit] [Delete] Item 1
[Add] [Edit] [Delete] - SubItem 1.1
[Add] [Edit] [Delete] - SubItem 1.1.1
[Add] [Edit] [Delete] - SubItem 1.1.2
[Add] [Edit] [Delete] - SubItem 1.2
...
Now to me that looks like a table with column headings Add, Edit,
Delete, Item Name. But if I do that I will loose the
logic of the lists,
which really should remain.
Hmmm. I really cannot come up with a sensible
solutions for this,
that does not involve a ridiculous amount of tags.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
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RE: [WSG] Google and HTML5
I like the idea of the nav and the aside elements: http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-nav http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-aside So instead of: html head/head body div id=header/div div id=nav/div div id=content/div div id=sidebar/div div id=footer/div /body /html We could have: html head/head body header/header nav/nav article/article aside/aside footer/footer /body /html Which is cleaner and more semantic. But it would take years to get it implemented by the browsers and to grow the installed base to the point where we can actually use it. Better to just standardise the id and class names - the web patterns / microformats approach. cheers, Geoff. Brian Cummiskey wrote: I just stumbled upon this: http://code.google.com/webstats/index.html Based on commonly used classes and such, they are suggesting new html markup. For example, they mention that footer is used a lot, and are thus suggesting a footertag/footer. http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-footer Thoughts? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE float quest
Tee,
I suspect the problem is the IE box model. You have set a width and padding for
#formWrapper.
Increasing the width of the #container by 20px, which is the amount of padding
on the #formWrapper, seems to fix the problem.
#container { width: 825px; ...}
cheers,
Geoff.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of tee
Sent: Monday, 19 December 2005 4:26 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] IE float quest
Greeting,
I'd been working on solving this problem in the last three hours
however I can't seemed to pinpoint the cause.
In IE 6/ 5.5, my form drops to the bottom. I know this is a
common IE
bug and I was able to solve the problem in other sites by declaring
clear left (or both or right) or display: inline. Except this time.
This one is the perfect solution I wanted:
http://sl.lotusseeds.com/request1.html
and the css:
#formWrapper { clear: right; position: relative; /* declaring
position: relative or not doesn't seem matter to IE in this case*/
font: 0.82em/1.5em Lucida Grande, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif;
color: #4F4F4F;
border: 2px solid #eee;
background: #F3F3F3;
width: 400px;
padding: 0px 20px 20px;
margin: 30px 30px 0px 10px;
}
Except that it drops to the bottom, here is the screen shot if you
are a Mac user.
http://sl.lotusseeds.com/ie.jpg
So I declared 'display: inline' in the #formWrapper, it solves the
problem but my background color shrinks to a small square above the
the form in Firefox and Opera (both PC and Mac); in Safari and IE,
the background color completely gone.
Here is the page.
http://sl.lotusseeds.com/request.html
and the css:
.#formWrapper {clear: right; display: inline;
font: 0.8em/1.5em Lucida Grande, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
color: #4F4F4F;
border: 2px solid #eee;
background: #F3F3F3;
width: 400px;
padding: 0px 20px 20px;
margin: 30px 30px 0px 10px;
}
I know when asking help from this list, a validated page and
css is a
must - well, I do have my HTML validated and the 99.8% of CSS are
validated too, except that I used the -moz-border-radius that the
W3C validator gave me error - hope this is acceptable :)
Thank you!
tee
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RE: [WSG] IE float quest -SOLVED
Tee,
I think you are making things complicated for yourself. You don't need
conditional comments or the IE7 script just to get column widths to match
across browsers.
The trick to taming the box model problems of IE is to never set width and
(horizontal) padding for the same element. If you want padding, set it on a
nested element, or set margins directly on all children of the element.
When I made my suggestion, I wasn't just guessing - I saved the file locally
and changed the width and the gap disappeared. I wasn't meaning it to be a
complete fix, just to show the cause. Removing the width is good too.
Personally, I would just set the width of #content2 to match the rounded
corners, remove the padding, and set margins (but no widths) on the headings,
paras and the form inside #content2. Sorry I wasn't clearer in my last post.
Might have saved you some effort.
cheers,
Geoff
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of tee
Sent: Monday, 19 December 2005 9:53 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE float quest -SOLVED
On Dec 19, 2005, at 1:40 AM, Geoff Pack wrote:
Tee,
I suspect the problem is the IE box model. You have set a
width and
padding for #formWrapper.
Increasing the width of the #container by 20px, which is
the amount
of padding on the #formWrapper, seems to fix the problem.
#container { width: 825px; ...}
Hi Geoff, it doesn't quite work unfortunately, adding 25px to the
#container creates other problem for footer and the extra white
background for #content width.
I managed to solve the problem by eliminating the widths in certain
areas and with a IE conditional comments.
http://sl.lotusseeds.com/request3.html
Still have a minor problem to sovle at the bottom of the form, where
a gap appears when browser browser gets scroll.
Thanks for the suggestin anyway!
tee
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RE: [WSG] Pipe separated lists
To reply to a few people at once: Daisy wrote: You can hear the recorded output from JAWS of vertical pipes (and other commonly used separator characters) in Peter Krantz's article, The Sound of the Accessible Title Tag Separator, [http://www.standards-schmandards.com/index.php?2004/11/06/6-t he-sound-of-the-accessible-title-tag-separator]. Thanks for that link. Middot sounds like a good alternative, but vertical bar has history and common use on its side. Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: ...I'm just not sure it makes really good sense to add any kind of separators between links since they don't add any value from a usability point of view. They are just visuals that may come out as noise. I would agree, but for the fact that it violates WAI guideline 10.5: http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/#tech-divide-links That 'until user agents' is a bit vague though. Anyone know? I've heard arguments that 10.4 (place-holding characters in edit boxes) is redundant now. Chris Townson wrote: what a list looks like or how you want a list to look are irrelevant in the context of this debate. also irrelevant is whether the pipe or vertical bar has accrued implied or associated meaning through (ab)use. semantic mark-up is about utilising the most appropriate tag available for a particular thing within the provided specification I don't think it is irrelevant. Meaning = semantics. If my inline pipe-separated list already has the semantics I intend, then making it an html list adds nothing but cruft. I don't see the point of marking it up as a list, only to have to add CSS to change it back to what I intended in the first place. end of story. Not really. That's what we're here for. cheers, Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Pipe separated lists (was: CSS foul-up in IE)
Joshua Street wrote: Can you possibly ditch the un-semantic pipe separators (|) and just use border-right:1px solid #000; on the li elements? That would probably help... Are the pipe separators really un-semantic? They have a long history of being used in navigation menus, and definitely have meaning. They may be redundant here given that the grandparent marked up the menu as a list, but not un-semantic. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Pipe separated lists (was: CSS foul-up in IE)
Christian Montoya wrote: If you heard what pipe separators sound like in a screen reader, you wouldn't think they were semantic. Just because they have a long history doesn't make them machine-readable. Well, I have heard what they sound like when Opera reads them out, which is no biggie. And I wasn't implying that semantic = machine-readable. Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Asterisks have a long history of being used to denote required form fields...but that doesn't make them semantic either. Just like the pipe separators, it's a case of a *visual* convention from the print world. They do not have meaning on their own, but their meaning has been inferred. The same inference happens when we used to use font size=+3 instead of a proper h1 or whatever to denote a heading... Well, if it's a convention, then it *has* meaning. The question is then whether the meaning is clear enough, to a wide enough selection of the audience. With HTML, we can also ask if there is a 'correct' way to mark-up the meaning. But incorrect mark-up != un-semantic in the broader sense, only that the semantics of the contents do not match the semantics of the mark-up. For asterixes, the meaning is the same as a footnote: see below for clarification. It's a pre-web in-page hyperlink. On a web page you can make the link even more explicit by adding an href to the footer text, but it's not necessary because everyone already *knows* what it means. It is just as semantic as writing 'required' next to a label (Required what?). The meaning is the same. As for lists, the pipe separated menu list is perfectly clear to most people. What is missing is a clean way to mark it up with HTML. You could use an unordered list, styled inline, but that is overkill in many cases, and not an useable if you want the list to be inline when styles are missing or turned off. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Pipe separated lists (was: CSS foul-up in IE)
Samuel Richardson wrote:
Why are you using pipes in the first place? Why is a li with
border-right : 1px solid black; styled on it and spaced out
with margins
and padding not sufficient? This smacks of using nbsp; for layout.
Why? because it's more concise, uses less bandwidth, and looks the way I want
it to when CSS is off. And is no less correct.
This:
#menu li {display:inline; padding-right:0.5em; margin-right:0.5em;
border-right:1px solid #000;}
ul id=menu
liitem 1/li
liitem 2/li
liitem 3/li
/ul
Or:
pitem 1 | item 2 | item 3/p
Geoff.
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RE: [WSG] Pipe separated lists (was: CSS foul-up in IE)
Christian Montoya wrote: ... - I don't care how a page looks with CSS off, as long as a list really looks like a list And what does a list really look like? Which of the following is more correct: My favourite fruits are watermelon, apples and bananas. My favourite fruits are: * watermelon * apples * bananas Answer: neither. They are both lists and both mean the same. - I don't think users care how a page looks with CSS off, since technically it's all ugly when that happens Yes, but there are different degrees of ugly. I care because I occasionally look at my pages on a PDA, and inline list work better for some things (esp. navs) than bulleted lists. They are more compact and require less scrolling. But you're right, neither is more usable than the other. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Pipe separated lists
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Geoff Pack wrote: As for lists, the pipe separated menu list is perfectly clear to most people. What is missing is a clean way to mark it up with HTML. You could use an unordered list, styled inline, but that is overkill in many cases, and not an useable if you want the list to be inline when styles are missing or turned off. Styling for 'css off' really is one of the most absurd things I have heard in a long time. CSS is for styling, and 'css off' is supposed to deliver unstyled content that's semantically marked up and sequenced so we get it presented in a perfectly meaningful way with HTML default 'no nonsense' styling. I'm not styling anything. I'm choosing which mark-up I use so that the unstyled content is clear and legible. The content is perfectly clear, and putting it in an html list does not make it any clearer or more semantic. ... Back to the pipe separator for a moment. Semantically that separator means, and is used for, separation between alternatives... That is only *one* meaning of a pipe. There are plenty of others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar .) I think in this case it is used simply as a delimiter. But assuming it is a list of alternative means it makes even more sense to mark it up with pipes. I'm not denying a pipe-separated menu is a list of links. What I'm saying is that there are cases where it is not desirable to mark up a list as an html list. Marking up menus as pipe separated lists is an old web convention that has its own meaning. And the W3C still uses it: http://www.w3.org/ http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ cheers Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official
Can someone explain what the new Canvas element does that SVG doesn't? And why is it a new element instead of just using the Object tag? Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official
I understand that much. What I don't understand is why was this implemented as a new element. Shouldn't it be an Object? From looking at the spec, it seems to pretty much replicates the capabilities of SVG, but using JavaScript instead of markup. Why not just use SVG, and use JavaScript + DOM if you want to add things dynamically? Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2005 11:36 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official Geoff Pack wrote: Can someone explain what the new Canvas element does that SVG doesn't? And why is it a new element instead of just using the Object tag? It's an implementation of this: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#scs-dynamic -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q(��b��(��,�)උazX����)��
RE: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official
Thanks. much clearer now. Geoff. Ted Drake wrote: Try this http://overstimulate.com/projects/canvas/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS Validators
Alan Trick wrote: Is there a problem with this: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/DOWNLOAD.html Only that it's written in Java - the server admins here would prefer something else. It looks like we will have to go with it anyway, as we can't find any alternatives. Thanks also for the other responses. We currently use the w3c online validator for sites as we develop them, but we are looking for something that will enable us to trawl though all our content and check it. cheers, Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
Paul Noone wrote: Also, and I'll probably get lynched for this but the following should also work in a transiational doctype. ol li value=40/li ... Not for using it, just for not quoting it properly ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS Validators
Does anyone know of a downloadable CSS validator (other than the W3C one) that I can install on an local server to batch check files on my local network? We currently use the WDG html validator, but their CSS validator is not available for download. Cheers Geoff Pack ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] starting ordered lists from a number other than 1
I agree with Bert - use the start attribute and a transitional dtd. It's cleaner, more concise, and captures exactly the semantics of what you are doing. You don't need the div around the text info though. Of course you could always write out the first 39 empty list-items and hide them :) Geoff Pack Somaya Langley wrote: Hi All - I'm putting together a template for a contents list page for the National Library of Australia's online pictures delivery system. We need to start an ordered list on a page from a number other than 1, as the lists could be quite long and so will be chunked into a set per page. There are two solutions... the first, for example: ol start=40 li divtext info in here/div /li ... or, the second: ol li divnumber inserted in here from our digital content management system/div divtext info in here/div /li ... While the first would be more elegant, start is now a depricated attribute. What do people suggest? Thanks Somaya ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] jump menu method
Nice script. What sort of attribution would you like if I borrow it? Geoff. Lachlan Hardy wrote: Herrod, Lisa wrote: can you send a link to an example of one of these? Try this one: http://www.business.vic.gov.au/ Hopefully, you'll forgive the lack of validation - not our implementation, although I'm sure it'll get there eventually Cheers Lachlan
RE: [WSG] CSS filesize and selector names
Anders Nawroth wrote: Mixing lower/uppercase enhances readability, just remember to write it the same way everywhere, class names and ID's are case sensitive. I tend to prefer hyphens, like #btn-save hyphens? bah! .realCoders use #camelCase ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Font resizing
It is on the news story pages, but not the homepage. Strangely enough though, the small font size in the stories is bigger than the default size on the home page. Geoff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2005 2:39 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Font resizing Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:08:40 +1100: I just realised how ridiculously little the difference is between normal and large font size on the Sydney Morning Herald. As if that was making any difference to the user. It's fairly obvious that that was only put on there for the show, not to really make any difference. It this the site in question? http://www.smh.com.au/ I opened it in a 900x700 window, and could see amoung all the px sized mousetype nothing that looked like a text resizer. Where do they hide it? How are people who need it supposed to find it? That begs the question, when starting with mousetype, how is anyone who needs a resizer going to recognize if there is one there, much less how it works? If sites would simply use the user default in the first place, then few would have any use for a resizer on the page, since too big for any web designer is going to be adequate for most such people whether they know how to set their own defaults or not. -- I can do all things through Him who gives me strength. Philippians 4:13 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Unstyling named anchors
Martin J. Lambert wrote: Actually, when using XHTML Strict, name is not a valid attribute for anchors. You can use the id attribute to get the same jump-to-that- section-of-the-page behaviour, but this will work with *any* element, not just anchors. Since you don't want the appearance of a link on the page, I suggest eliminating the anchor altogether and linking to the id of whatever element is already there in the markup. Unfortunately, this won't work in Netscape 4 and earlier, so if you are getting any hits from those browsers, you pretty much need to use name as well as id or you will be breaking navigation for some people. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Set min-width using DOM
o.k., so how do you go about setting both max- and min-width at the same time? I tried: width:80%; max-width:600px; min-width:400px; width:expression(((document.documentElement.clientWidth)) 500 ? '400px' : '80%'); width:expression(((document.documentElement.clientWidth)) 750 ? '600px' : '80%'); And needless to say only the second expression got evaluated So, I tried (remove line breaks where required): width:80%; max-width:600px; min-width:400px; width:expression((document.documentElement.clientWidth 500) ? '400px' : ((document.documentElement.clientWidth 750) ? '600px' : '80%')); Bingo! Only works in IE 6, and only if 'active scripting' is enabled - at least on Win 2k sp4 anyway... cheers, Geoff. N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q(��b��(��,�)උazX����)��
RE: [WSG] Strange width/padding/margin issue with IE5 for Mac
Well done.
One last thing: the navigation list is 60px off to the left in IE 5 Mac Win.
You need to explicitly set both the padding and margins for lists and list
items to get them to behave consistently across browsers, as they have
different default values.
To fix:
1. remove the 60px left padding from #column
2. put a left margin on the images in #column.
(e.g. wrap them in p/p and set
#column p {margin:0 0 10px 60px; padding:0;}
3. add a 60px left margin to #navigation, *and* set padding:0;
4. set margin:0 for #navigation li
Hope this helps,
Geoff.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Adam Morris
Sent: Friday, 21 October 2005 12:14 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Strange width/padding/margin issue with IE5 for Mac
Right, I've now got the pages looking IDENTICAL in FF on MAC and
Windows XP with NO HACKS!!
Will now try to tidy it up a little, still with no hacks. Clearing the
floats was the very useful advice, and nesting one of the floats too.
The rest, I just started from scratch.
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RE: [WSG] Strange width/padding/margin issue with IE5 for Mac
Adam,
I had a quick look in IE 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 and both pages looked the same on all
three.
On IE6 Win the heading drops below the main photo, but on FF it doesn't. I
would start by getting the rendering the same on IE6 and FF and then see what's
happening with IE5 Mac.
General comments:
1. Where are your paragraph tags? Why are you using br /br / instead?
2. What is the point of all the class=list in your list items? Drop the class
and style them with '#navigation li {...}'
3. You are really making things tough for yourself with the excessive CSS
hacks. As far as I can see, You don't need any of the min-height stuff - just
clear:both your columns and you'll be fine. Secondly, you are using htmlbody
selectors for FF pretty much everywhere you've set a padding on an element.
Here's a tip: don't set width and padding for the same element, and you won't
need box model hacks. In your case, set the width of the columns, then set
*margins* on the column contents (including the missing p tags).
I suspect your original problem will disappear if you fix these other things
first.
Cheers,
Geoff
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Adam Morris
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 4:47 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Strange width/padding/margin issue with IE5 for Mac
For some strange reason, the only way I can get this block of text to
behave in Mac IE is by putting a block element at the top of it! i.e.
I can tame its width by sticking an h5 title on the top. In the block
of text, everything before a list stretched and ignored my
instructions. But, after a list appeared, the block of text listened
to what I was trying to tell it to do! So I stuck the h5 there and
everything below it began to behave! WHY?
The pages validate.
The page is here: http://www.megustalatelevision.com/uwish/philip.php
The page without the h5 is here:
http://www.megustalatelevision.com/uwish/philiptest.php
the css I'm using for the mac is ie51.css
Thanks in advance.
Adam
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RE: [WSG] Couple of question - Image Map etc.
Andy Kirkwood wrote: A single image loads faster than the same cut into separate images. HTTP requires a new connection to be made to the server for each file (i.e. image). Even when the single image filesize is the same as the sum of the individual files, reconnecting to download each file introduces noticeable 'lag' (obviously more noticeable on dial-up than cable). Not necessarily. Different parts of the image may lend themselves to different compression techniques and file formats. Separating a part of the image that has more detail or a different colour palette can mean the rest of the image can be compressed much more efficiently. But it is better to separate into layers rather than slices. cheers, Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE team says no to hacks
Peter Firminger wrote: If you've gone against all sane advice and used CSS hacks then you knew exactly what you were in for with future browsers and potential problems. ... Sorry for the smug told you so, but many people including myself have made this very clear over the whole life of WSG. You only have yourself to blame. Since you don't yet know how many CSS bugs will be fixed in IE 7 you really don't have any cause to be smug yet. If the IE team fix the CSS hacks and also fix the bugs the hacks are used to work around (as I think they originally mentioned they would), then the hack users will be fine. And if not, then it's no worse than having to update your conditional statements anyway. Because I bet you don't yet know which of your conditionals will have to change to !--[if lt IE 7] and which to !--[if IE] cheers, Geoff (who uses very few hacks btw, so I'm not defending myself here) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] css for ie4/ie5
Standalone versions of IE 4 and IE 5 are available at http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bit/standalone. These will work even if you have a later version of IE installed. cheers, Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rhys Burnie Sent: Friday, 14 October 2005 1:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] css for ie4/ie5 I am interested in the current opinion of the relevance of css hacks for explorer 4.0.x 5.0.x specifically in regards to the Box Model Hack. I understand the problem associated with the box model in ie4 5 but have begun to question the need for hacks in your css for these browser versions. In an attempt to design for versions of ie 6.0 I attempted to download versions 5.0 and 4.0. Fisrtly ie4 is no longer on the microsift explorer download page and has to be sourced elsewhere. Secondly if you have a later version of ie on your system it wont install an earlier version anyway. This leads me to think that anyone using ie 4 or 5 have either had to make an effort to remove a later vesion of ie to install the earlier version or has not updated their browser. And in order to actually test in ie 4 o r 5 I'll need to install it on another machine. I know this is sounding like a lame excuse for not designing for ie6 but at what point do we stop disigning for minority users who (given the fact that microsoft loves to remind to update its products) have most likely chosen to not update or dont have internet access and therefor wont be viewing your site anyway. I have a great interset in making degradeable cross platform/browser sites but dont want to get so bogged down in hacks that code becomes disorderly and problemetic, especially when ie7 is released. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I realise its an old issue and remember having discussions with fellow students at Uni a few years ago. But with the implementations in ie6 and the ones to come in ie7 perhaps its time to finally stop worrying about ie 4/5 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] css for ie4/ie5
Sure. But if you are only testing your own sites, and not surfing the web with them, then it shouldn't be much of a risk. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Firminger Sent: Friday, 14 October 2005 2:18 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] css for ie4/ie5 But they may make your system vulnerable as they are not patched. There's a very good reason Microsoft doesn't publish these for developers or anyone else. Not at all recommended on any machine you care about. P Standalone versions of IE 4 and IE 5 are available at http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bit/standalone. These will work even if you have a later version of IE installed. cheers, Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Block element inside inline container
Scott, Have you tried printing this page? If you are going to do the hover thing, make sure you add a print stylesheet with them all visible at once. cheers, Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Scott Glasgow Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 3:04 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Block element inside inline container I would appreciate it if someone could take a look at this http://www.earhartrefrig.com/services.htm and let me know if I am going to have to ditch the uls. The page HTML and CSS both validate (4.01 Trans.) except for the the uls contained in the span elements at lines 35, 54, 73, and 89. This is based on Eric Meyer's Pure CSS Popups at http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo.html, but I wasn't thinking when I adapted it. His example, of course, uses text elements, not block elements. Is there any way to hack this to get it to validate with the uls, or will I have to redo it using text elements? Thanks. Cheers, Scott ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] The Big Lie about CSS
Sorry to be thick, I get it now. I guess you have to use the SSI if you want to be absolutely sure. Though if you are only changing the styles, does it matter? The content will still be correct (unless the html is also cached...) cheers, Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 19 September 2005 12:39 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] The Big Lie about CSS John, There's no need for a server-side include to do this. Just use a linked stylesheet Intra-corporate controversy! Fair enough, but as Jake has pointed out, this isn't absolutely guaranteed, because screen.css may still get cached, leaving users with the old @import statements. Caching is, by its nature, beyond our control. jh Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 8333 3488 Developer, ABC Kids Onlinehttp://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] td != div
Some reasons for div-itis: 1. Columns. table cell = div is wrong, but usually columns = divs is correct. 2. Boxes. The designer wants to put a box around a group of items. There might be a heading, a list or two and a paragraph, with border and a background. You could do this without a div (for example, by setting side borders on all the items, and a top and bottom borders on the first and last items respectively), but it's easier to just wrap it in a div and give it an id and a single style. And since box = section = div, it's the correct thing to do anyway. 3. Multiple backgrounds. 4. Expandability. Sometimes you know you have only one item in a box or a column, and you know you don't need a wrapper div. But you can bet that in a couple of months the designer/editor/cleaner will want to add a more items. So you build the structure to grow. 5. Box model work-arounds. You want to give an item a width, some padding and a border. You could use some CSS hacks, or you could just set the width on a wrapper div, and the margin/border/padding on the item itself. e.g. with columns, I set the width on the column div, then set the margins/borders/padding on the contents. 6. Laziness and deadlines. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to make things simple. Not always worth it. cheers -- Geoff Pack Developer ABC New Media -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kenny Graham Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2005 9:31 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] td != div In most of the previous table layout vs css layout arguments I've seen on here, people refer to divs vs tables. Now, I never learned table based layouts, and don't understand them (spacer gifs, etc). Because of this, I don't/can't think along the lines of I'm replacing tables with divs. But many of the XHTML/CSS sites I see clearly do. For instance, they'll put a ul inside a div id=menu, just so that they can style the ul, instead of just giving the ul itself an id. Or put the contents of a paragraph inside a span id=p1 instead of giving the paragraph itself an id of p1. The only time divs don't make me cringe is when they're used to enclose a group of elements with the header that applies to them, and this purpose of divs is being replaced with section. I know that divs are more semantically neutral than tables, but is wrapping an element in 5 divs and a span really that much better than wrapping it in a table? Hopefully this will start a debate that I can learn something from, since I have a limited background in tables. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] td != div
Some reasons for div-itis: 1. Columns. table cell = div is wrong, but usually columns = divs is correct. 2. Boxes. The designer wants to put a box around a group of items. There might be a heading, a list or two and a paragraph, with border and a background. You could do this without a div (for example, by setting side borders on all the items, and a top and bottom borders on the first and last items respectively), but it's easier to just wrap it in a div and give it an id and a single style. And since box = section = div, it's the correct thing to do anyway. 3. Multiple backgrounds. 4. Expandability. Sometimes you know you have only one item in a box or a column, and you know you don't need a wrapper div. But you can bet that in a couple of months the designer/editor/cleaner will want to add a more items. So you build the structure to grow. 5. Box model work-arounds. You want to give an item a width, some padding and a border. You could use some CSS hacks, or you could just set the width on a wrapper div, and the margin/border/padding on the item itself. e.g. with columns, I set the width on the column div, then set the margins/borders/padding on the contents. 6. Laziness and deadlines. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to make things simple. Not always worth it. cheers -- Geoff Pack Developer ABC New Media -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kenny Graham Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2005 9:31 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] td != div In most of the previous table layout vs css layout arguments I've seen on here, people refer to divs vs tables. Now, I never learned table based layouts, and don't understand them (spacer gifs, etc). Because of this, I don't/can't think along the lines of I'm replacing tables with divs. But many of the XHTML/CSS sites I see clearly do. For instance, they'll put a ul inside a div id=menu, just so that they can style the ul, instead of just giving the ul itself an id. Or put the contents of a paragraph inside a span id=p1 instead of giving the paragraph itself an id of p1. The only time divs don't make me cringe is when they're used to enclose a group of elements with the header that applies to them, and this purpose of divs is being replaced with section. I know that divs are more semantically neutral than tables, but is wrapping an element in 5 divs and a span really that much better than wrapping it in a table? Hopefully this will start a debate that I can learn something from, since I have a limited background in tables. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] site not looking good in Mozilla/FF!
Bruce, It's not looking too good in IE either - enlarge the text and the content wraps below the left nav. General advice: get it working on Firefox *first*, and then adjust to work on IE. Specific advice: 1. Get rid of the wrapper divs - you only need the outer one. Put the background on the outer wrapper - you can include both shadows, the dark blue left column background, and the grey vertical line in the one background image. By putting all this in the wrapper background, it will extend to the whole length of the wrapper, and you won't need the Project 7 JavaScript (which doesn't seem to be working for FF). 2. Give the header, the left column, and the footer a left-margin equal to the width of your left shadow. 3. You don't need the content wrapper either. All you really need is: wrapper header [clear] left_col, top_bar [break] center_col, right_col, [clear] footer close wrapper 4. top_bar: right-align the text instead of using all that left padding. hope this helps... cheers, -- Geoff Pack Developer ABC New Media -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2005 2:05 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] site not looking good in Mozilla/FF! I tested the following site I am working on in Mozilla and it's not looking too good at the moment. the URL is: http://www.semlogic.com/test/index.htm and the CSS is http://semlogic.com/test/CSS/Global.css some of the issues are the left menu isn't displaying properly, the background image for the left column isn't displaying and the footer background isn't extending to the content. Also, the grey bar at the top isn't looking right. Everthing validates, and it actually looks as expected in IE, but I know that these issues, are probably due to coding misjudgements, so if they could be pointed out, I would be greatly appreciative! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
John, If they want to be coders, then send them straight to the source, and show them how to find the specs: http://www.w3.org/ Particularly: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ and: http://validator.w3.org/ Geoff. -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 29 August 2005 10:14 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners I'll shortly be teaching a class in HTML basics. I'm confident in teaching them the *absolute* basics, but if the people in the class want to go on to be coders, which online resources would you recommend? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IFrame Question
What IFrame? There is no IFrame in your page. But there are a few ways to do what you want: 1. You can use javascript to change the image source. 2. You can put both images in the page in separate divs and hide one - then use a show/hide script to swap the divs over. 3. You can put the images in an actual iframe and use a href=guitar2.jpg target=imageFrame to change the images. But what ever you do, get rid of the tables. You should never need to use a single cell table. cheers, Geoff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Sent: Saturday, 20 August 2005 12:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] IFrame Question I have a crude IFrame scrollbox test page setup and need to know if it is possible to do the following: From within the IFrame, use a link to change the graphic to the right of the IFrame. For example, I will be scrolling several small graphics of the guitar models in each color they are available in. Once the small image of a red sunburst colored guitar is clicked on in the IFrame, the larger image of the same red sunburst guitar appears to the right on the page and so forth for each available color guitar. In this crude demo, I have used text links but of course they open in a new page. Here is the url: http://www.olpguitars.com/08122005/scrollertest.htm TIA Jeff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
Hi all,
Thanks for all the comments on the new ABC home page. I did the front-end
coding, so I'm responsible for *some* of the issues raised.
The resizing thing:
I would have also preferred a scalable layout or a stylesheet switch, but the
design differences are sufficiently great that I had to build 2 html pages.
They are pulling different includes, in a different order for a start. I tested
the script pretty extensively, but if you have problems, email me and I'll look
into it.
The ABC (the New Media department anyway) is moving generally towards
fixed-width centered layouts. Again, not my preference.
Navigation:
The previous drop-down menus didn't test very well, and the click-through stats
showed the in-page links were used much more. The new global nav and the
Explore the ABC were quite popular.
The global nav coding was constrained by the fact that it has to go on all ABC
pages as a single include file. Putting the style tag in the include (and so
inside the body) was a compromise to get it to work without having to edit code
across the whole of the ABC. We are fixing it for the new/recent pages soon.
Old pages was will probably stay broken.
The Banner:
Making it an html image instead of a CSS background was done so the banner
appears in CSS impaired browsers and in PDAs where the rest of the page will be
unstyled.
Font-sizing:
Constant source of argument with designers, who always want it too small. Up to
now I've been using the body {font-size:0.76em} trick (most of the recent ABC
TV sites for example.) But the differences in IE when browser text size
settings become much too great. So I've started using font-size:76% instead,
which seems to work better.
Accessibility:
We haven't paid a lot of attention to it apart from making sure the html is
clean/semantic and adding the skip links. we test pretty widely across
browsers. Point taken about the missing title attributes, but given the number
of links, and the fact they come from some many different people in different
program areas, it is probably not going to get fixed.
BTW, if there is anything that particularly annoys (or pleases) you, send
feedback via the contact form if you want it formally logged. We do make
changes based on feedback we receive.
cheers,
Geoff Pack
Developer,
ABC New Media and Digital Services
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RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
I'll fix this soon.
thanks,
Geoff.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 11:10 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
Geoff,
One problem that I've found in both Firefox Safari is that
when I increase
the font size the search box and its button disappear from the page.
Hope Stewart
On 4/8/05 7:18 PM, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
Thanks for all the comments on the new ABC home page. I did
the front-end
coding, so I'm responsible for *some* of the issues raised.
The resizing thing:
I would have also preferred a scalable layout or a
stylesheet switch, but the
design differences are sufficiently great that I had to
build 2 html pages.
They are pulling different includes, in a different order
for a start. I
tested the script pretty extensively, but if you have
problems, email me and
I'll look into it.
The ABC (the New Media department anyway) is moving
generally towards
fixed-width centered layouts. Again, not my preference.
Navigation:
The previous drop-down menus didn't test very well, and the
click-through
stats showed the in-page links were used much more. The new
global nav and the
Explore the ABC were quite popular.
The global nav coding was constrained by the fact that it
has to go on all ABC
pages as a single include file. Putting the style tag in
the include (and so
inside the body) was a compromise to get it to work without
having to edit
code across the whole of the ABC. We are fixing it for the
new/recent pages
soon. Old pages was will probably stay broken.
The Banner:
Making it an html image instead of a CSS background was
done so the banner
appears in CSS impaired browsers and in PDAs where the rest
of the page will
be unstyled.
Font-sizing:
Constant source of argument with designers, who always want
it too small. Up
to now I've been using the body {font-size:0.76em} trick
(most of the recent
ABC TV sites for example.) But the differences in IE when
browser text size
settings become much too great. So I've started using
font-size:76% instead,
which seems to work better.
Accessibility:
We haven't paid a lot of attention to it apart from making
sure the html is
clean/semantic and adding the skip links. we test pretty
widely across
browsers. Point taken about the missing title attributes,
but given the number
of links, and the fact they come from some many different
people in different
program areas, it is probably not going to get fixed.
BTW, if there is anything that particularly annoys (or
pleases) you, send
feedback via the contact form if you want it formally
logged. We do make
changes based on feedback we receive.
cheers,
Geoff Pack
Developer,
ABC New Media and Digital Services
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RE: [WSG] there is no attribute name
Michael Cordover wrote:
Yup, same mechanism. The #anchor has *always* referred to an id in the
spec, referring to a name as a bit of an extra feature (read:
incompatibility included for fun).
That's a bit arse backwards. 'Name' has been the target of #anchors ('fragment
identifiers') since HTML 1.
Can you imagine how many links would have broken if it had been removed from
html 4?
Geoff.
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RE: [WSG] Text flow and two bottom aligned floats?
Not sure if it's possible to do precisely. To get the text to flow above and left means you will have to put the image inline in the text, which means they will jump around a bit depending on the font size and width of the text block. I got the following code to sort-of work by setting the image heights to a multiple of the line-height, and setting a fixed width. You have to fiddle with the placement of the images in the text to make them line up at the bottom. Try changing the text size in your browser - the images should stay in the same place. div style=width:24em; font-size:1em; line-height:1.5em; pLorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. Stet clita kasd nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore img src=tall.gif alt= border=1 align=right style=float:right; width:6em; height:12em; et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum. Stet clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est img src=short.gif alt= border=1 align=right style=float:right; width:6em; height:6em;Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod./p /div cheers Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Blown Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2005 5:52 PM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Text flow and two bottom aligned floats? Just a quick question.. I am wondering what techniques people would use to layout a paragraph of text with two right floated images and have the text wrap around the images as shown. The main thing is the two images need to both be bottom aligned to each other ;) I have a couple of ideas, but they both seem quite a lot of leg work just to do something quite simple as flow some text around a couple of images. eg Heading +---+ text text text | | text text text | | text text +---+ | | text text | | | | text text +---+ +---+ This one is easy Heading +---+ +---+ text text | | | | text text +---+ | | text text text | | text text text | | text text text +---+ Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Text flow and two bottom aligned floats?
Curvelicious/ragged float: interesting technique, but why chop up the image? Better to leave it as a single positioned image (low z-index), and use transparent shims (remember those?) to push the text around. That way you still get the image in one piece when the page is viewed without CSS. Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Blown Sent: Friday, 13 May 2005 2:27 PM To: WSG Subject: RE: [WSG] Text flow and two bottom aligned floats? Thanks Geoff I had that one in mind, I'll give it a go.. I had hope to get some CSS/P that would work across any page without having to modify the images or position it in the text. I could chop the image horizontally ( see attachment ) a-la Meyer curvelicious [1] Thanks Chris [1] http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/raggedfloat/demo.html On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 13:11, Geoff Pack wrote: Not sure if it's possible to do precisely. To get the text to flow above and left means you will have to put the image inline in the text, which means they will jump around a bit depending on the font size and width of the text block. I got the following code to sort-of work by setting the image heights to a multiple of the line-height, and setting a fixed width. You have to fiddle with the placement of the images in the text to make them line up at the bottom. Try changing the text size in your browser - the images should stay in the same place. div style=width:24em; font-size:1em; line-height:1.5em; pLorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. Stet clita kasd nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore img src=tall.gif alt= border=1 align=right style=float:right; width:6em; height:12em; et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum. Stet clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est img src=short.gif alt= border=1 align=right style=float:right; width:6em; height:6em;Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod./p /div cheers Geoff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Blown Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2005 5:52 PM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] Text flow and two bottom aligned floats? Just a quick question.. I am wondering what techniques people would use to layout a paragraph of text with two right floated images and have the text wrap around the images as shown. The main thing is the two images need to both be bottom aligned to each other ;) I have a couple of ideas, but they both seem quite a lot of leg work just to do something quite simple as flow some text around a couple of images. eg Heading +---+ text text text | | text text text | | text text +---+ | | text text | | | | text text +---+ +---+ This one is easy Heading +---+ +---+ text text | | | | text text +---+ | | text text text | | text text text | | text text text +---+ Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Formatting tables
Try turning off all your styles and see if the table still makes sense. If not, then you need to add some table attributes. I find that it often helps to add a border in the html, but most of the time the default values for the other attributes are fine, and can be styled with CSS. cheers, Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
