RE: [WSG] HELP with CSS

[WebMaster]

Hello Olajide,

Actually yuors is a pretty simple fix.

Lose the  and  tags and include your text and graphix inside
your  with your thumbnail. Create a class called

 .leftimg {

float:left;

}  In your style and then call it from your tag class="leftimg

A working example can be seen at http://1fite.com/17.html

I had a similar problem and solved it.

Good luck,

Troy

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Olajide Olaolorun
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 1:18 PM
To: WSG
Subject: [WSG] HELP with CSS

 

Can someone help me out here:

http://www.olajideolaolorun.com/gfx/

There is a problem with where the text start and where the pictures end..
For some reson it loads under the pictres and i have to use the p tag to
create spacing for it... can someone help me out. 

-- 
Best Regards, 
Olajide Olaolorun 
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz   
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RE: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[Webmaster]

I agree. I actually tried to unsubscribe from the list so I could just view
the list archive at my leisure. But if you unsubscribe the page reads:
 _
|_|  Yes. Remove me from the mailing list and delete my membership.

I did not want my membership revoked, I just can't weed through 100+ emails
every day. Also, you can't see the list archive unless you are on the list.

Maybe have 3 or 4 lists with a focus such as XHTML, CSS, general, etc... Or
a way to be a member without being on the list would be great as well.

Terry

> -Original Message-
> 
> Hi Guys,
>  
> I've noticed that this list has grown and grown and has gotten too big to
> be read on a daily basis. I was wondering if there's any consideration of
> maybe splitting the listing into a handful of different topics and then
> allowing members to subscribe to one or more specific topics. So if my
> interest right now is CSS I could subscribe to that topic.
>  
> Related, I've heard that the CSS-foundations list will be joining this
> one. These daily emails can only get bigger.
>  
> Just some thoughts,
> Thanks for all the great comments help and community,
> Chris Rizzo
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[WSG] WE05 - who's going?

[Webmaster]

So who's going to the Web Essnetials conference this week?

Anyone interested in a group catch-up?

I thought it might be nice to put some faces to all these names.

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RE: [WSG] WE05 - who's going?

[Webmaster]

Well I don't know if everyone else is the die-hard fan of this group that I
am but I thought a forehead tattoo with 'WSG' would do the trick. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 3:09 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] WE05 - who's going?

How about a secret password that you have to sneak into the first 60 seconds
of meeting someone :)..?

any ideas?



-Original Message-
From: Focas, Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 3:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] WE05 - who's going?


I'm going, see you there.
Grant

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Webmaster
Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 2:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] WE05 - who's going?


So who's going to the Web Essnetials conference this week?

Anyone interested in a group catch-up?

I thought it might be nice to put some faces to all these names.

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RE: [WSG] Hiding Headings

[Webmaster]

Don't both these solutions still have the same issue with 
Firefox's ability to drag content areas?
 
Has display:none become un-PC of 
late?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian 
MontoyaSent: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 12:53 PMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Hiding 
Headings
Psh, left? Do top:h1 {position: absolute;top: 
-1px;}No need to risk the embarrasment of having the h1 element 
seen on a 12,000 pixel resolution screen. 
On 9/27/05, Lance 
Willett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
On 
  9/27/05, Nick Gleitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:>   Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote:>> 
  >> > 1. Put the H1 in there, but set it's display to "none" on 
  the style > > sheet.> >> > 2. Set the header 
  overflow to hidden, then set the top padding on the> > H1 to be a 
  pixel more than the header's height - thereby hiding the> > heading 
  text. > >> > One problem I discovered with the second 
  method - you can drag the> > content in Firefox, revealing the 
  heading...> >> > Which approach is better?  Do 
  search engine spiders know the heading > > is hidden in scenario one 
  and skip that text?  Is there a known> > workaround for 
  the issue caused by scenario two?>> Instead of {display: none}, 
  use {margin-left: 999px}. Visitors won't > see the H1 text, but Search 
  Engines will; and nothing to see if content> dragged...>> 
  N> ___> Omnivision. Websight.> http://www.omnivision.com.au/>> 
  **> The discussion 
  list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/>>  See 
  http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm>  for 
  some hints on posting to the list & getting help> 
  ** 
  >>Joseph,I agree with Nick, except I would do 
  px.  I made the mistake ofdoing 999px one time, and on a 
  large monitor the h1 snuck in from theside and it was 
  embarassing!So your CSS would look like this: h1 
  {position: absolute;left: -px;}Search engines will 
  still see it that way and there is no chance thatit will show on your 
  layout.--Lance Willettsimpledream web studioPhone: 
  520.954.5607Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Web: http://www.simpledream.net** 
  The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/See 
  http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm 
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RE: [WSG] Hiding Headings

[Webmaster]

 
Oh, great. So my skip links shouldn't be inside such a div then? :*

So I have now changed the top of my page code to read:



  This site will look much better in a browser that supports http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/"; 
  title="Download a browser that complies with Web standards.">web
standards, but it is accessible to any 
  browser or Internet device.

  

.
  Skip navigation


Is this the most commonly used and accessible approach?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lance Willett

The reason display:none is unadvisable is due to screen readers ignoring the
content (which since it's an h1 element we are assuming it's important).

The full reasons are fleshed out here:
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ScreenreaderVisibility

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Re: [WSG] Images as DIV Background with and without link (w3c friendly)

[webmaster]

Hi Fausto,

To cut things short:

there is nothing wrong with images used as background via CSS as long
as theses images are used as layout and not to give meaningful pieces
of information to the visitors.

You may end up confusing people who use text-only or speech devices.

Read this article from 24ways.org, I've found it very helpful, myself.

You're from Brazil, hu? I'm living in Florianópolis, WONDERFUL!!!

Cheers mate!!!

Re: [WSG] New to Standards.

[webmaster]

Try this:

www.w3schools.com

It helped me a lot in the beginning.

Cheers

Paolo

Re: [WSG] Jello Mold not working right in IE/Win

[webmaster]

#sizer {width:_expression_(document.body.clientWidth
 > 1554 ? "402px" : "75%" );}



I would prefer not to have to fiddle with the proportions of the
buttons just for IE, so would it be possible for someone to translate
that _expression_ into plain english for me so I can fiddle with the
numbers instead? I don't understand what they're all doing, so it's
difficult to know where to make the changes I need.

Cheers,

Seona.

All the above means: 
"if the screen width is wider than 1554px then #sizer will be 402px wide, or else it will 75% of the screen width"

I hope that was clear enough, it's the best I came up with ;-)

All the best and good luck

Paolo Dodet

[WSG] Correct structure of lists with headers

[Webmaster]

Hi everyone,

I read some tutorials about lists but i don't find how make good structure
list that have headers. How i make this list? Which are the best option?

I think do it like it:

OPTION 1:


Phrase Header


   Phrase header
   Phrase header
   Phrase header
   Phrase header




OPTION 2:


Phrase Header
Phrase header

   Phrase header
   Phrase header
   Phrase header





Thanks,

César Caballero
www.darkrassel.com
 



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[WSG] RE: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[Webmaster]

Sounds like something that should be dynamic. Maybe 
Macromedia will build it intot the next version of Dreamweaver. 
;)
 
The loveely people at I Love Jack Daniels have a handy 
refeerence sheet you may like but it's not quite what you're 
after.
 
http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/css/css-cheat-sheet/
 
A CSS validator is another good option but it's more of an 
after-the-fact solution. Try the W3C's Jigsaw.
 
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator-uri.html
 
Sorry I couldn't be more help but these should be of some 
assistance.


From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 2:53 
PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

Is there any guide or cheat sheet out there somewhere which 
gives the exact properties of each html element which CAN be 
altered/positioned/styled via CSS?
 
Like I've been putting:
 
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
 
on a default table rule set, but something I've just read 
"indicates" that tables don't have padding - so the padding rule for tables is 
useless. I've been doing the same for s, but something else I came 
across said that tr's don't have margin or padding properties.
 
I'm trying to streamline my stylesheets and would like to get 
rid of any superflous rules that don't apply - or have no effect on 
- specific elements.
 
The easiest way I can think of to do this would be to 
reference some kind of (easy to understand) document that says - or shows - that 
you can set the margin of a table, but not the padding, etc.
 
Cole

[WSG] RE: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[Webmaster]

The URL is getting re-written or re-directed to http://survey.whatcanido.com.au/Survey/Index.content and 
then I get the magical Page cannot be found 
error.


From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 2:55 
PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org


Guys n’ gals,
 
I’m having some quirky layout issues with 
http://survey.whatcanido.com.au/ 
specifically starting on page two of the survey, Questions2.fuel. The issues are 
pretty clearly visible. Any assistance with generally improving the pages would 
be greatly appreciated.
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
Tatham 
Oddie
 
Technical Director, Fuel 
Advance
www.fueladvance.com
 

[WSG] RE: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[Webmaster]

And there's also an open-source system now available at www.browsershots.org which won't cost you 
anything.


From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 3:21 
PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org



http://www.browsercam.com/  - 
that really handy site 
that allow you to preview screenshots of your webpage on all browser/platform 
combinations. 
 
 
 

RE: [WSG] Page structure - navigation

[Webmaster]

I tend to agree. 
Navigation should come first with a skip link to content, OR content before 
naviagation but with a skip link to navigation. The display:none technique is 
pretty much the norm now for this screen reader issue. 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erica 
JeanSent: Friday, 24 June 2005 10:48 AMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Page structure - 
navigation


  
  

  Actually, the site I read said the link should read "Skip to the 
  main content."
   
  Whole thing.
   
  Because otherwise (from what I understood) if it isnt' written out 
  that way, the screen reader pronounces content wrong. It 
  pronounces it like the verb... the dog was content. 
   
  And neither link would nessicarily have to show up on your finished 
  page if you style them with display:none;. It would be there for the sole 
  purpose of users with screen readers.
   
  I would use:
   
  Skip to the main content.
  Skip to the navigation menu.
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: Terrence Wood
  Date: 06/23/05 
  20:22:31
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Cc: Terrence Wood
  Subject: Re: [WSG] Page 
  structure - navigation
   
  The technique is called reverse source order, and yes in theory it 
  does
  improve your ranking in SERP's because content laden words appear 
  at
  the top of the page. It also means the first screenful in a text 
  only
  browser is content.
   
  I've been using this technique for over two years now, and if 
  you
  position your navigation with CSS nobody can tell the 
  difference.
   
  You don't need skip links, but you can code them in if you want, 
  drop
  the "skip to" because it doesn't really make sense and add menu, as 
  it
  is slightly more universally understood than navigation:
   
  * Main Content
  * Navigation Menu
   
  regards
  Terrence Wood.
   
   
  On 24 Jun 2005, at 11:56 AM, Darren Wood wrote:
   
  > indeed.
  >
  > if i used a screen reader I'd rather see:
  > * Skip To Main Content
  > * Skip To Navigation
   
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    See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: [WSG] Picky, picky, picky

[Webmaster]

I hate to be a pedant but "descendant selectors" will return much better
results.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 7:21 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Picky, picky, picky


On 25 Jun 2005, at 4:37 PM, Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote:

> I'm almost embarrased to ask this because it's such a minor detail, 
> but it's driving me crazy.
>  
> First, the link: http://www.x7m.us/_testing/index2.htm
>  
> This is a new design I'm just starting to build. If you look at it in 
> FF/Netscape/Opera it's perfect (the latest versions of those browsers, 
> anyway). If you look at it in IE6 the headline image (Quality.
> Reliability. Reputation.) within the h1 sits about 6 pixels lower than 
> it should, which of course pushes everything else down as well.
>  
> This head is suppose to align with the nav bar you see on the left. In 
> FF, Netscape, and Opera it does. Perfect. IE, of course, well...
>  
> I've tried everything I can think of to correct this, and I've come to 
> the conclusion that it's something going on with the h1. But I've 
> tried everything there too, including zeroing the top margin and top 
> padding on the h1 without result. Besides, all of these things are 
> already zeroed at the top of the style sheet.
>  
> Can someone spot the error of my ways when it comes to the IE 
> rendering?
>  
> Cole

Add this:

div { border: 1px solid #f00 }

to your css and look at the page in IE6, compared to FF. You'll see that the
extra space is actually being generated by your div id="topEdgeH". Doesn't
affect the logo placeholder, because it's positioned absolutely - but it
does push the  down.

Fix? You could play with the div id="topEdgeH" to try and stop the extra
space (height? line-height?), or simply add

_margin-bottom: 290px;

to it for IE6 - adjust to taste.

Other comments: I realise this is a WIP, but your  format is
completely inaccessible - you don't even have alt text.

I suspect if you run your CSS through the validator, you'll find some errors
- I noticed some instances of 'color: Black', and I don't think you can use
upper case for color names (although I'll happily stand corrected).

More generally - I really don't think CSS needs to be this complex. I
believe you're creating more potential management headaches for yourself
with your CSS than you need to. Try Googling 'descendent selectors' and
learn how to get rid of that long list of classes. If they're in your CSS,
they're cluttering your markup, somewhere (presumably on L2 pages). And what
if you decide to change the colour of the elements you have styled by
'class='red' to another colour? Try to label CSS rules for function, rather
than appearance. You'll sleep better somewhere down the line...

And one design comment: your main headline (the one in question) has a LH
border, imaged, of red. So do your links, on hover. I immediately presumed
that the headline was a link as well...

All the above just my 2c, but HTH -

Nick

___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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RE: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE

[Webmaster]

The site looks fine under IE6 on my PC. Nice job. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Monday, 27 June 2005 12:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE

I was working on a site that has 4 absolute divs for two png images, a left
column and a right column for menu. The two images work fine and the left
column seems working fine except it doesn't stay where I want it to be,
however the right column menu, links and hover are not working at all.

This is the first time I have 4 absolute position wrapped in a relative div,
I was wondering if IE has issue with more than one absolute div.

The page:
http://clients.lotusseeds.com
css: http://clients.lotusseeds.com/index.css


Thanks!

tee

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RE: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE

[Webmaster]

Sorry tee. I see what you're saying.

No, the links don't work.

You've got his code for the current menu item:

Karate Overview

I would suggest you could incorporate your 'active' class into the 'current'
class and so do away with one of them. This itself could be causing
problems. BTW, I can't find a 'current' style in your CSS anywhere.

You also define height for the links when active but not in their normal
state. And I think this block here is your culprit:

#menu li#active a {
background: #fff;
width: 140px;
height: 28px;
color: #000;
}

Though exactly how to rectify it for your needs I couldn't say. Shouldn't
'active' be either a pseudo selector or a class.

Also, you might want to re-work your page layout a little so that you're
starting with an H1 and not an H2, then descend from there.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Monday, 27 June 2005 1:33 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE


> 
> The site looks fine under IE6 on my PC. Nice job.
> 
Thanks but are your sure the menu is working??? It obviously doesn't in my
IE 5/6 (both W2K and XP home); hover disappear and links are not clickable.

tee
> 
> I was working on a site that has 4 absolute divs for two png images, a 
> left column and a right column for menu. The two images work fine and 
> the left column seems working fine except it doesn't stay where I want 
> it to be, however the right column menu, links and hover are not working
at all.
> 
> This is the first time I have 4 absolute position wrapped in a 
> relative div, I was wondering if IE has issue with more than one absolute
div.
> 
> The page:
> http://clients.lotusseeds.com
> css: http://clients.lotusseeds.com/index.css
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> tee

> 

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RE: [WSG] input/text random background color in IE?

[Webmaster]

Hi Vaska,

Could it be that you have the Google seearch bar installed on your browser?
It automatically highlights fields that it can complete using the AutoFill
feature. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Vaska.WSG
Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2005 1:58 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] input/text random background color in IE?

Why is it that IE turns the background of some input/text elements to light
yellow?  I can't find any information as to why or how it's doing this...and
I want to stop it.

Anybody know what this is about?

Thanks, v

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RE: [WSG] Survey of Accessible Websites in New Zealand and Australia

[Webmaster]

Hi Bruce,

I'm currently working on a compete re-buld of our organisations website to
conform with WACG guidelines, accepted usability, W3C/CSS etc etc, you know
the drill. It has been bp0th challenging and rewarding. The dev site is now
at a stage where content is being added and it should go live to this domain
(www.ashm.org.au) in the next coupe of weeks.

You can see it now at http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au.

Regards,
Paul
--
Technical & Creative Producer, ASHM

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Aylward
Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2005 11:33 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Survey of Accessible Websites in New Zealand and Australia

Dear List,

I am working on a survey of accessible websites in New Zealand and
Australia. If you are particularly proud of an accessible website that you
have developed or know of a site that should be included in the survey,
please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include the URL for the site, the
level of accessibility achieved and the designer contact details. Once I
have collated the information and written it up I will publish the report to
the WSG list.

Thank you,

Bruce Aylward
W 3 A Limited
http://www.w3a.co.nz

Mobile: +64 (0)27 224 3617
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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RE: [WSG] Image Thumnail Advice

[Webmaster]

Hi Cole,
 
Your mistake can also be step 3. If you're on a Windows box 
then you're quite possibly dealing with conflicting image resolutions. If you 
create a new image in Photoshop you'll notice that it's most likely set to 
72dpi. I believe Windwos default is 80(?).
 
I then recommend using the Image->Image Size... menu 
item to resize images, not Transform->Scale.
 
If you're going to use a sharpen filter then go with 
Unsharp Mask ona settingn of about 150%, 1.2px, 7 threshold. You can then simply Ctrl-F to apply Last Filter 
in order to increase the effect if you want more.
 
Paul


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris 
DawesSent: Sunday, 3 July 2005 1:57 PMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: [WSG] Image Thumnail 
Advice


Use save for web then 
use the resize tab below the output options. Chose jpeg medium from the top. 
Should be good quality output.
 
Chris 
Dawes
 




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin - 
x7mSent: Sunday, 3 July 2005 
12:28 PMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] Image Thumnail 
Advice
 

Hello All -

 

I'm having a mess of a time getting sharp thumbnails of 
the site's I've built into a thumbnail 
format.

 

Here's what I do:

 

1. Load the home page of a site into a 
browser

2. Use a screen capture utility to snap an image of the 
home page

3. paste the capture into 
PhotoShop

4. Transform/Scale the image from it's captured size 
(760 pixels x 550 pixels) down to a 165 x 115 pixel 
thumbnail

 

And...everything turns to mud - or pretty close to 
it.

If I sharpen the thumb, it's slightly better, but 
sharpen too much and it's "halo" city. Yuck.

 

I know it's an issue of pixel loss during the reduction, 
but what to do?

 

Surely there must be a better way as I've seen some 
sites with small thumbs of large images that are excellent 
looking.

 

What are they doing (or what are YOU doing) that I'm 
not?

 

Thanks to al in 
advance,

 

Cole

 

RE: [WSG] SV: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[Webmaster]

On this note, does anyone know how to dynamically recreate all the other
image alignment options currently available through HTML? E.g. absmiddle,
text-top etc., or are we stuck with right/left and then margin settings? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Sunday, 3 July 2005 2:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] SV: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Importance: High

> The obvious img{float:left} is not good - client dont want the text to 
> be displayed under the image.
> If all images ware the same size - it would be simple - just add 
> margin to , but its not like that... :( And i hate creating classes 
> like that: .img110px  .img180px .

I think this is the better solution than the background image.  You don't
need to declare image size but the margin or padding and float left or
right.
For example:

.image {
float: right; /* or left */
border: 2px solid #d3d3d3;
margin-left: 10px;
}

When image inserts to the , your text will float around image according.

Examples from a site I was working:
http://clients.lotusseeds.com/dojoprocedures.html  (I have the image
temporarily inserted in front of h3 )

http://clients.lotusseeds.com/style.html (image is inserted in the  tag)

If you want different padding/margin, border and float declared but  don't
want to bother to create different classes in your css files, you can do
this:

  Blah blah blah 

tee

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RE: [WSG] font size in a table

[Webmaster]

Hi Hope,

This was bugging me for ages too. I don't know _why_ it does it but my
workaround to-date has simply been to implicitly set font-size for p, td and
li. My table and list text usually display larger when I only set the
font-size in the body element.

I've asked this question before but is there a "standard" way to set the
font size across all elements (irrespsective of inheritance)?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Monday, 4 July 2005 11:12 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] font size in a table

I created a simple webpage containing a few paragraphs, a list and a table
(for tabular data). For some reason that I cannot for the life of me work
out, the font size of the text is much bigger in the table than elsewhere on
the page. (Tested in FF, Safari, Opera/mac). It's driving me nuts! I want
the text in the table to be the same size as elsewhere! What am I doing
wrong??? Could someone please enlighten me?

A mock-up of the page is here:
http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/

And the css is here:
http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/css/style1.css


Hope Stewart

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RE: [WSG] font size in a table

[Webmaster]

Yes I had no idea that doctype could effect CSS rendering like this. I was
always scraed to use XHTML 1.0 strict but the combination below looks good.
It will become my new standard.

Thanks for asking the question.

Paul 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Monday, 4 July 2005 1:54 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] font size in a table

On 4/7/05 1:23 PM, "Webmaster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This was bugging me for ages too. I don't know _why_ it does it but my 
> workaround to-date has simply been to implicitly set font-size for p, 
> td and li. My table and list text usually display larger when I only 
> set the font-size in the body element.
> 
> I've asked this question before but is there a "standard" way to set 
> the font size across all elements (irrespsective of inheritance)?


Thanks for your input. I had set the font-size for p ul and li and had used
these tags within the td tags, but it still did not work.

Russ supplied the answer for me: I was using the wrong doctype. I've
changed:

 

to:

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xml:lang="en" lang="en">

and all works beautifully. I don't fully understand all the components of
doctypes, but the one I'm now using is working. Compare
http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/index.html

to:
http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/index2.html

The *only* difference in the code of these two pages are the first two
lines, yet the font size behaves itself in the table on the second page
because of the doctype.

I don't know whether is would help in your case, but it created a miracle in
mine!

Hope

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RE: [WSG] semantically correct markup for "pagination"

[Webmaster]

Title: semantically correct markup for "pagination"



In what language, Marco? This type of functionality is 
built into almost any site's search page. You can find examples of it 
everywhere.
 
Using PHP you would just set a couple of variables and then 
perform a numrows count and repeat of the same query with a LIMIT of 10 or 
so.
 
e.g. $totalResults+4/10; and then a LIMIT $StartPos, 10;, 
where $StartPos = ($PageNo-1)*10; and PageNo is a hidden field in your 
form.
 
You then just add the Prev and Next buttons with an onclick 
event of document.results.PageNo.value= -- and value = ++.
 
Sorry I couldn't write it more clearly but I dont think 
this presents any accesibility issues. It's just a few lines of code and it will 
be different for every occasion and language used. 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Della 
PinaSent: Tuesday, 5 July 2005 1:12 AMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] semantically correct markup 
for "pagination"

Hi all, 
does anybody have an example of a semantically 
correct markup for a "pagination" like on www.google.com with previous and 
next links?
Best regards from Germany, 
Marco Della Pina 

RE: [WSG] semantically correct markup for "pagination"

[Webmaster]

Sorry Patrick. I was way off. I thought he was asking how to achieve the
task in its enirety. I've revisited the originel email and, in my defence,
it really wasn't terribly explicit.

Now to tackle those Googlers.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Tuesday, 5 July 2005 1:29 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] semantically correct markup for "pagination"

Webmaster wrote:
> I wasn't aware this could be achieved dynamically using HTML.

Nobody said anything about HTML creating the pagination links dynamically.

> Have I missed
> something? Does PHP not represent well-formed and meaningful data?

PHP outputs whatever HTML markup you tell it to output, once you've done all
your totalresults/blahblah stuff. But, what should you print or echo? *That*
is what the original question was. A paragraph with a series of links? An
unordered list of links? A definition list?

> Perhaps all this time I've invested in server-side scripting has been 
> wasted.

You seem to have missed the point of the original question.

> I'd best let the developers at Google know. :)

Yes, let them know that their pages should really be marked up with
structural HTML or XHTML... :)

--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re-
+ dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__

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Recall: [WSG] semantically correct markup for "pagination"

[Webmaster]

Webmaster would like to recall the message, "[WSG] semantically correct
markup for "pagination"".
<>

RE: [WSG] base css

[Webmaster]

> If I know the base font I'll set that and some default
> colours, then set a % text size in the body {}, to avoid
> any font-size setting smaller than 1em.

Hi Heretic, please explain this. How does setting a % for text-size in body
prevent the appearance of smaller than 1em font sizes? Is 100% a good
starting point for body? Enquiring minds want to know.

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[WSG] Firefox top margin

[Webmaster]

Hi guys,
 
I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.

I've already tried removing the first hidden DIV and anchor to no avail.

No hacks please. I'm aiming for a single stylesheet that will validate.
Hopeful, I know. ;)

And is 100.01% still the recommended font-size for body?

No live link I'm afraid but the relevant code follows.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

CSS
---

* html, body
{
padding: 0px;
margin: 0px;
}
body
{
font-size: 100.01%;
font-family: Verdana, Arial;
}
#header
{

border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
background: #005CAB;
}
#masthead
{
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
height: 52px;
border-width: 0px;
background: #005CAB url(../images/logohead.gif) no-repeat 0px 0px;
}
#masthead h1
{
padding: 0;
margin: 0.2em 0.2em 0 0;
text-align: right;
color: #fff;
}


HTML




  This site will look much better in a browser that supports http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/"; 
  title="Download a browser that complies with Web standards.">web
standards, but it is accessible to any 
  browser or Internet device.




Australasian Society for HIV Medicine


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RE: [WSG] Firefox top margin

[Webmaster]

Great guess, Dwain! You were right. I would have hoped that any margin I set
to #masthead h1 would have been applied inside #header -> #masthead.
Annoying. I suppose that explcitly applying position: relative to it might
have done the trick.

Instead I've changed the margin to 0px and used padding on the h1 instead
(which is probably more correct).

Thanks muchly.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 12:53 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin

Webmaster wrote:
> Hi guys,
>  
> I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
> How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px 
> margin and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.
> 

without a link to a live page i can only guess that it's the margin setting
on the #masthead h1.

dwain
--
Dwain Alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com

"The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner
impulse must find suitable expression."
Wassily Kandinsky, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art"
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RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks

[Webmaster]

[sniff]

You're not alone, Ted. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C. 
Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2005 9:34 AM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks

Hi Al

I didn't realize you were on the list.  Your web site and coding was an
inspiration to me when I first switched to CSS and standards-based design.

Thanks
Ted
www.tdrake.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Al Sparber
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:23 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks

From: "Jan Brasna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks


> When using these filters, be careful - IE7 is coming...

Wise words.

Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain
road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled
for next Tuesday".


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RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue

[Webmaster]

"Keep in mind that not many people here will want to help you sort out a
design that uses tables for layout."

Are we not being a bit classist?

Although my current site rebuild is CSS heavy I have (after much struggling
with a div-based header/3-column/footer layout that is accessible,
cross-browser/-platform friendly, CSS switch-less and 'hack' free) reverted
to a table for this purpose.

I'm not looking for sympathy or abuse; this just seemed my best option at
this time. If anyone can point me in the direction of a table-less layout
that performs the above functions I would be mightily obliged.

Best,
Paul

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Peter Firminger
Sent: Friday, 12 August 2005 10:46 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue

Hmmm, back to the basics of this list.

Please read the section on "Asking for help on the list"
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

Validate your code.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.olpguitars.com/olp_basses/occ/o
cc_chopperbass.asp

Fix those 125 errors and then ask again. Keep in mind that not many people
here will want to help you sort out a design that uses tables for layout.

P

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 12:43 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] Spacing Issue
>
> I have been working with these sliced images and occasionally run into 
> this issue.  At the bottom right just below the footer info is a small 
> area that appears to have shifted somewhat.  Can someone be so kind as 
> to point me to what is causing this?
>
> http://www.olpguitars.com/olp_basses/occ/occ_chopperbass.asp
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
>
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>
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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>


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RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue

[Webmaster]

> > a div-based header/3-column/footer layout that is accessible.

> http://www.google.com/search?q=3+column+accessible+css+layout

> yields some good results...

Sadly not.

The search for a valid CSS/(X)HTML, hack-free, 3-column CSS layout
continues.

I'm still accepting offers for a solution. Even one that requires a
combination of techniques which incorporate a baseline footer and other
goodies.

For those who are interested in using a real world example, please feel free
to replicate my organisation's soon-to-launch site without tables. Now
there's a Web stabdards challenge for you.

http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/

You can see I didn't try terribly hard. And, yes, I'm aware that  widths
are deprecated.

But what's a boy to do, eh?

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RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue

[Webmaster]

> If there's a tradeoff between tables or two hacks I'll take the two hacks.

Hi Tatham,

Looks good. I'll ignore the 'get over it' and move to accept your suggestion
that a couple of hacks are acceptable. My only real issue with hacks is that
they are not future proof.

I see many sites not unlike Virtual Earth hitting the Net very soon. :)

Well done.

RIP Brian Grimmer

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RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue

[Webmaster]

>> The search for a valid CSS/(X)HTML, hack-free, 3-column CSS layout 
>> continues.

>Thierry wrote:
>
> Did you see this one?:
> http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/3cols/3cols/6.asp

Again, nice. But negative margins are not a solution I enjoy and IE still
requires scripting for height.

The good news is that this thread has inspired me to go back to the drawing
board and try again.

Perhaps it's as a result of the tips I've picked up from this list that I
seem to be achieving a much higher rate of success than the last time round.

Suffice to say my results will eventually be posted here for your dissecting
pleasure.

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[WSG] Body text disappears in IE when window is maximised

[Webmaster]

Hi all,

As promised I've been working away again creating a hack-free version of the
Holy Grail 3-col layout. I have had some measure of success. The results can
be viewd here for anyone who's interested.

http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/layout_test.htm

I now ask the list's help in resolving a very odd and new bug to me. It only
seems to occur in IE and happens when the window is maximised using the
browser window's icon.

I'd be very interested in knwoing if anyone else sees this or has a
solution.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

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RE: [WSG] Body text disappears in IE when window is maximised

[Webmaster]

Lindsay, you're a champion. Modifying the class itself was also required but
your solution worked.

Thank you, too, Ingo. I have kept your suggestion in mind for other
eventualities of this kind.

Does the structure of the CSS and layout seem solid enough? I'm very
interested in getting feedback on this.

Incidentally, there's still a slight alignment problem with the text in the
main body. It sort of shimmies in about 0.2em halfway down and doesn't seem
affected by window size.

e.g.

This is a line of text
 and this is the second line
 in the same paragraph.

-Original Message-
From: Lindsay Evans
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 4:52 PM

Hi Paul,

You're talking about the content in the middle column getting chopped off
about half way down?
Try changing   to 


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[WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column

[Webmaster]

Hi all,

Another bizarre IE bug. I've searched and searched and can find nothing
suitable to fix this.

The content in the centre column (i.e. the main content) of my site template
disappears on page load. It reappears as soon as you rollover any link, or
drag over the body text itself.

This is a continuation of the same problem I had earlier which someone
recommended would be solved by using a  as a clearing element instead
of a .

Converting DIVs to BRs only resulted in more arcane behaviour. In fact,
clearing floats in the usual fashion generally results in problems.

The problem only seems to occur when the content in the right column exceeds
the height of the centre column.

For those interested the live example is here:

http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/layout_test.htm

Any and all suggestions/solutions much appreciated.

Paul

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RE: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column

[Webmaster]

Hi Christian. Yes, I have.
 
The clearer class looks like this.
 
 .clearer {  clear: 
both;  line-height: 0; height: 0;  margin: 0px; 
padding: 0px;  background: 
transparent;  }
 
For those not seeing the problem it is duplicated ONLY 
under these circumstamces.
 
1. The centre colums content height is less than that 
of the right column AND you click in the Address bar after page load and 
hit RETURN.
2. On an subsequent visit using the browser's arrow 
keys.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian 
MontoyaSent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:14 PMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Disappearing conent in 
middle column
Are you applying "clear:both;" to these divs?
On 9/20/05, Webmaster 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote: 
Hi 
  all,Another bizarre IE bug. I've searched and searched and can find 
  nothing suitable to fix this.The content in the centre column 
  (i.e. the main content) of my site templatedisappears on page load. It 
  reappears as soon as you rollover any link, ordrag over the body text 
  itself. This is a continuation of the same problem I had earlier which 
  someonerecommended would be solved by using a  as a clearing 
  element insteadof a .Converting DIVs to BRs only 
  resulted in more arcane behaviour. In fact, clearing floats in the usual 
  fashion generally results in problems.The problem only seems to occur 
  when the content in the right column exceedsthe height of the centre 
  column.For those interested the live example is here: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/layout_test.htmAny 
  and all suggestions/solutions much 
  appreciated.Paul** 
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  http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm 
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  help**

RE: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column

[Webmaster]

Hi Andreas,

That's the bug alright. If only I'd thought to search Google for 'peekaboo'
and not 'CSS content disappears' or similar. ;)

Gunlaug's fix certainly did the trick. Thanks, Gunlaug!

It appears the Holly Hack might also work but would oyu believe the original
article for this on PositionIsEverytyhing (
www.positioniseverything.net/articles/hollyhack.html )has now been moved to
http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=47F29 and requires payment?!

Thanks a lot for your quick responses.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:22 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column

> -Original Message-
> From: Webmaster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:03 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column
> 
> The content in the centre column (i.e. the main content) of my site 
> template disappears on page load. It reappears as soon as you rollover 
> any link, or drag over the body text itself.
> 

Did you check if it is the peekaboo bug?

http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html


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RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com

[Webmaster]

Dodge the bad and just watch all the good, Andy.

It's a great site. It's visual simplicity belies the efforts you've gone to
in creating it.

I love the testimonial blockquote styling. Tray shiek.

I've gotta tell you though, I did notice a few clear: rights in those
stylesheets. :)

One curious thing I noticed (which only appears if you really scrunch the
page size) is that the header actually develops horizontal and vertical
scrollbars. No biggie. I was at about 600x480 at that stage.

Again, kudos for going with a fluid full-width display. Makes me feel less
alone.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Andy Budd
Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 9:19 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearleft.com

> A little on the boring side, where are the images, the site is just 
> text.

Well I wanted to make the logo spin, but the others thought it was a bad
idea ;-)

Seriously though, we will be adding pictures of us on the relevant "about"
pages, as well as creating  a case study area in the not too distant future
to highlight interesting work.

However I do think that the site is about the text rather than superfluous
images, so we wanted to put the content at the forefront of the site.


Yours

Andy Budd

http://www.andybudd.com/
01273 241355
07880 636677

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RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com

[Webmaster]

Oh, one small encoding issue (?) which came up as well. For some reason I'm
getting the HTML entity and not the " in the text below.

"Download and complete our client worksheet, and we'll send you a
proposal within a week." 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Andy Budd
Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 1:59 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Clearleft.com

Hi folks,

We've just launched our new company website, and would love your feedback.

http://www.clearleft.com/


Yours

Andy Budd

http://www.andybudd.com/
01273 241355
07880 636677

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RE: [WSG] two background images + fixed width layout

[Webmaster]

Tee, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve but why don't you
just try nesting a couple of divs and giving them a background image each?

The following example illustrates the idea and would visually display a
three column layout. Of course, you could use and combination of images and
positiong that you liked.

#main1 {background: url(../images/grey.gif) top left repeat-y;}
#main2 {background:url(../images/blue.gif) top right repeat-y;}


mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 9:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] two background images + fixed width layout

Hi, I am working on a fixed width layout site that I would like to use two
background images. I know that it's impossible to do so in CSS however is
there a (standards compliant) trick I could use? Or do you know CSS based
website that use two background images that you can point me to?

I was thinking to use extra divs just  for background images but with  fixed
layout my content gone south as soon as I applied the extra divs.

Please see the current layout here:
http://lxm.lotusseeds.com/index.html

The first part of background image (dark green) is placed in the #container
which goes all the way down to #footer.
Then I have the drop shadow part of the background (dark green and earth
tone) in #wrapper, and the first part of earth tone placed in
#supportingText, then the bottom part in #footer.

However I would like to achieve this:

the first part of dark green background image runs across entire screen
horizontally (repeat-x) (I guess I can set a fixed height with no repeat-y
to achieve the visual effect I wanted)

the second part of earth tone background image runs across entire screen
horizontally (repeat-x)

and everything in the #container stays the same.

Is this do-able?

Thanks in advance!

tee

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RE: [WSG] two background images + fixed width layout

[Webmaster]

> Hi,
> Sorry for my poor English :(
> This is what I want :
> http://lxm.lotusseeds.com/example.gif

Ah, yes. That helps. It's tricky but do-able. The trick will be using GIFs
with transparency. All very accessible.

> And this requires fluid layout?

Not at all. In fact, fixed layout would probably suit your purposes better
here unless you were going to use the same alignment on all your background
images. Incidentally, I would try to achieve this with two images and no
more.

Play around with it and you'll get something you're happy with. It may not
mirrow the original image exactly though.

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RE: [WSG] keyboard onclick activation on Mac

[Webmaster]

This is true and it's so goddamn annoying.

You would have thought someone would either exclude the TAB key from
keypress events (and other keys like Enter, Alt, arrows etc) which are
generally reserved for other functions.

This is one aspect of meeting accessibility requirements that I find quite
painful.

The easy answer, of course, is to avoid Javascript events altogether.

-Original Message-
From: Patrick Lauke

However, in Firefox - and, if I recall correctly, Mozilla (Seamonkey) as
well - a tab also counts as a keypress. Therefore, simply tabbing to the
link and attempting to tab to the next one will trigger the onkeypress
event. In this case, the user starts tabbing, and all of a sudden the print
dialog comes up...

Patrick


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RE: [WSG] displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3

[Webmaster]

The far simpler way would be simpy to 
use:
 
 Text Text Text
 
Works in IE and Firefox. Probably all the others 
too.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James 
EllisSent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:24 PMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG]  displaying 3.1 
3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3
HiYes there is, using "counter". Only works in Opera and 
KHTML browser (Konquerer, possibly Safari), though.http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/css2/sec12-05a.htmCheersJames
On 9/21/05, Taco Fleur - 
Pacific Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

  Is there any way to make list look 
  like
   
  3.1 text 
  text
  3.2 
  text text
  3.3 text text
  3.4 text text
   
  Instead 
  of
   
  
  1 text 
  text
  2 text 
  text
  3 
  text text
  4 text text
   
  I am thinking NOT 
  with plain markup, but I could be wrong (just 
  checking).
   
  And how would 
  someone else do this? Just use  and put the numbering within the 
  list item as 
  text?
   
  Taco Fleur 
  - Pacific Foxan industry leader 
  with commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com
   

RE: [WSG] displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3

[Webmaster]

The far simpler way would be simpy to 
use:
 
 Text Text Text
 
Works in IE and Firefox. Probably all the others 
too.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James 
EllisSent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:24 PMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG]  displaying 3.1 
3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3
HiYes there is, using "counter". Only works in Opera and 
KHTML browser (Konquerer, possibly Safari), though.http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/css2/sec12-05a.htmCheersJames
On 9/21/05, Taco Fleur - 
Pacific Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

  Is there any way to make list look 
  like
   
  3.1 text 
  text
  3.2 
  text text
  3.3 text text
  3.4 text text
   
  Instead 
  of
   
  
  1 text 
  text
  2 text 
  text
  3 
  text text
  4 text text
   
  I am thinking NOT 
  with plain markup, but I could be wrong (just 
  checking).
   
  And how would 
  someone else do this? Just use  and put the numbering within the 
  list item as 
  text?
   
  Taco Fleur 
  - Pacific Foxan industry leader 
  with commercial IT experience since 1994 …http://www.pacificfox.com
   

RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com

[Webmaster]

>> If it was spinning, the name "clear:left" would have to change to 
>> "clear:right" at every 180 degrees.

> or clear:both :o)

You guys are just s 80s. ;)


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RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box

[Webmaster]

Janelle, I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and assume that 
the difficulty you've been having is a result of the much-discussed and lightly 
documented IE font-size bug.
 
As stated in previous posts, simply give your html or 
body tag a font-size of 100.01% and then use ems (preferably) for any further 
definitions.
 
I usually follow with a few basics 
like:
 
p, li, input { font-size: 80% }
 
Tabel cells sometimes inherit depending on how the rest of 
your stylesheet is set up.
 
Give it a go. You'll see it works and that it's muc easier 
to keep site-wide control.
 
The other option of fixing a 9pt font is simply a big fat 
no-no. :)


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janelle 
ClemensSent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 7:42 AMTo: 
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] controlling font size in form 
text box

My designer is on me 
to reduce the size of the font in the search box on the templates for our 
redesign.   But I can not get it to budge without getting too 
small.    Does anyone know of a trick for this.   We 
have decided to use a fixed font (px or pt) for the search box text.   
Two reasons:   1. to keep it constant when a viewer increases 
their browser font, and 2. using em was way to inconsistent cross 
browser.    The text under the search box is the size my designer 
wants it to be.
 
http://www.sgi.com/tempie/search_font.html
 
.box {font-size: 
9px;}
 
Thank 
you,
Janelle
 

RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box

[Webmaster]

Another cool tool, which is free, is Screen Ruler.

http://www.spadixbd.com/freetools/jruler.htm

It's only limitation IMO is that is can only measure in pixels, inches,
picas and centimeters.

The developer is the type of guy that would happily add other units however.
Especially for the sake of accessibility.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Paul Bennett
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 8:07 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box

1. personally that font size is already borderline readable (and I have good
vision) any smaller than 9px (some would say 10px) is getting into the
squinty-eyes arena.
2. According to my screen callipers, the font size the designer wants is
7px. There's a reason it looks too small at this size - because it is. Your
designer might have to just be happy with 9px IMHO.

Paul


Need to measure things onscreen (to appease designers, for example) then
check out this 'Screen Callipers' utility:

http://www.iconico.com/caliper/index.aspx

(I'm not afflated, just a happy user)

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RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box

[Webmaster]

Janelle Clemens wrote:

> using em was way to inconsistent cross browser.

Janelle, another thing to consider when using ems and % for your font-size
is to also apply these units to your layout (header, columns etc.). This way
everything will flow just beautifully when resized.

You need to get your designer to think outside the box and not be so
precious. I've settled many an argument simply by throwing quotes from the
Web standards bible at people. At the end of the day, when it comes to
making a site accessible, they won't have a leg to stand on... [cringe]

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RE: [WSG] keyboard onclick activation on Mac

[Webmaster]

Patrick H. Lauke quoth:

> Or, if you must, and your audience does include Mac users, write your own
> little javascript filter function to ignore TAB before activating whatever
> behaviour is in the onclick.

And indeed one for the Enter key.

I guess the point I was trying ot make is that these keys already had
specific amnd well understood functions well before the Internet infected
the ether.

It shouldn't have been a leap of thought to reserve them for exclusive
functions. As you say, the W3C got it wrong. Nuff said.

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RE: [WSG] displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3

[Webmaster]

Be nice. It's a common enough solution.

MS don't get absolutely everything wrong, you know. :P 

-Original Message-
From: Patrick H. Lauke

MsoNormal? Somebody's been exporting from Word, eh? ;)

Webmaster wrote:
> The far simpler way would be simpy to use:
>  
> 
>  Text
>  Text
>  Text
> 



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RE: [WSG] keyboard onclick activation on Mac

[Webmaster]

 
My concern is that the Enter key is also the default key to submit forms. An
onKeypress event could be trigger by most any other key, preferably the
spacebar. Although, as we know, this key also has the function of making
selections in radio groups and select boxes.

-Original Message-
From: Patrick H. Lauke

But Enter *is* the keyboard equivalent of the mouse click, so no you should
not filter it...or am I missing something here?

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[WSG] Konqueror and Galeon issues

[Webmaster]

Hi all,

The fix provided the other day to clear floats and make disappearing content
re-appear worked well enough in most browsers.

However, having just performed a preview test at http://browsershots.org
(incidentally, this site deserves an award for its service to the web-dev
community), I'm horrified to discover that my third column is pulling back
into the centre in these two broswers.

The question is: should I care? Is this due to quirks in those browsers? All
others display just how I intended.

The screenshots can be viewed here:

http://browsershots.org/website/363651/

Do I simply need to apply my fix to ALL higher-level container divs?

/* Improved hack for Peekaboo bug which causes content from #middle
to disappear
if its height is less than that of #right. Include backjslash here
for IE5-Mac \*/ 
@media screen {
* html #middle { height: 0; }
}
/* end fix */

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RE: [WSG] keyboard onclick activation on Mac

[Webmaster]

 [edit] I did, of course, mean "should I apply a .clearfix style and NOT the
neat hack below.

-Original Message-

My concern is that the Enter key is also the default key to submit forms. An
onKeypress event could be trigger by most any other key, preferably the
spacebar. Although, as we know, this key also has the function of making
selections in radio groups and select boxes.

-Original Message-
From: Patrick H. Lauke

But Enter *is* the keyboard equivalent of the mouse click, so no you should
not filter it...or am I missing something here?

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RE: [WSG] Konqueror and Galeon issues

[Webmaster]

[edit edit] Doh!

[edit] I did, of course, mean "should I apply a .clearfix style to each
parent div and NOT the all-encompassing hack below. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Webmaster
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Konqueror and Galeon issues

Hi all,

The fix provided the other day to clear floats and make disappearing content
re-appear worked well enough in most browsers.

However, having just performed a preview test at http://browsershots.org
(incidentally, this site deserves an award for its service to the web-dev
community), I'm horrified to discover that my third column is pulling back
into the centre in these two broswers.

The question is: should I care? Is this due to quirks in those browsers? All
others display just how I intended.

The screenshots can be viewed here:

http://browsershots.org/website/363651/

Do I simply need to apply my fix to ALL higher-level container divs?

/* Improved hack for Peekaboo bug which causes content from #middle
to disappear
if its height is less than that of #right. Include backjslash here
for IE5-Mac \*/ 
@media screen {
* html #middle { height: 0; }
}
/* end fix */

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RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com

[Webmaster]

Georg, the fix doesn't suggest putting different values on html and body (or
did I miss the whole point?).

I understood the solution to be setting body and/or html to 100.01% and then
setting any other styles and text-level attributes with ems or %. Did I get
it wrong?

I've just done a complete run of screenshots using the above method and can
still see some variations in size, particularly at larger sizes (h1-h3).

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Friday, 23 September 2005 9:40 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearleft.com

Andy Budd wrote:
>> Why don't you ask mister Rutter? http://www.clagnut.com/blog/348/
> 
> You know what, I must have known this at some stage as I always set %  
> on the body tag to avoid problems with font sizing in IE. I just 
> didn't put two and two together and realise it was the same issue. I 
> think the name "extreme font-resizing bug" just threw me as I've never 
> heard it called that before.

I thought it was a quite descriptive "name" for an old bug. Must be a flaw
in my Norwenglish... :-)

Seriously though; if solving it by setting 'font-size: 100%;' on 'html'
and em-value on 'body', then better make sure it _is_ '100%' and _no_ other
value on 'html'. Otherwise it looks like we may have a nice, but unwanted,
variation of font-sizes across browser-land.

Test 1:
html {font-size: 100%;}
body {font-size: 1em;}
... should result in 1em as base.

Test 2:
html {font-size: 200%;}
body {font-size: 0.5em;}
... should result in 1em as base.

Test 3:
html {font-size: 50%;}
body {font-size: 2em;}
... should result in 1em as base.

Only IE/win gave me the indicated results (1em).
Opera)8.50) and Firefox(1.5b1) didn't agree on anything but test 1.

- Can anyone confirm (or correct) this result?
- What about other browsers?

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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RE: [WSG] displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3

[Webmaster]

Ben, the logic is the same, you just need to set the UL as a nested list and
apply your list style type (numeric) and start number (3). 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ben Curtis
Sent: Friday, 23 September 2005 2:03 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG]  displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3


Webmaster wrote:

> The far simpler way would be simpy to use:
>  
>  Text
>  Text
>  Text
> 


This would render as:

 3. Text
 4. Text
 5. Text

The poster wants:

 3.1. Text
 3.2. Text
 3.3. Text

-- 

 Ben Curtis : webwright
 bivia : a personal web studio
 http://www.bivia.com
 v: (818) 507-6613




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RE: [WSG] Konqueror and Galeon issues

[Webmaster]

> ...my third column is pulling back into the centre in Konqueror and
Galeon.

For thos who are interested, this is a clearing problem which only seems to
occur in these browsers.

The good news is that the wonderful new .clearfix solution for clearing
floats does the trick very nicely.

For those still using clearing DIVs, HRs and BRs I urge you to look at
adopting this new solution. Far more elegant and it actually works as
expected.

The only disclaimer lies in the explicit order of your DIC elements.

Apologies if I'm going over old ground but this solution has entirely
changed the way I construct my sites.

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Re: [WSG] ALPHA Testers Needed

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I agree & I think Topstyle is the program you should have a go to try and
beat mate.

Although its pretty hard, it has a cult following
the guys talented
And Macromedia was focrced to put heaps of focus on Dreamweavers CSS
capabilites cuz TS is the CSS GOD.

Its pretty hard to beat.
You prepared for that level of programming?

Just being honest - but it is hard to move a cult followed application.

Camz.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kay Smoljak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] ALPHA Testers Needed


> > BTW - IF there are any programs out there that do this - please let
> > me know!
>
> I think I can do most, if not all of that with TopStyle Stylesweepers.
> You can save the parameters ton run them again - I have a
> super-compressed stylesweeper, and an ultra-readable one.
>
>
> -- 
> Kay Smoljak
> http://kay.smoljak.com
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> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WSG] Have stared too long

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I wouldnt bother with Netscape 7.1 Valdiation.

Rebuild your site somewhat so it works in Opera IE & Mozilla 1.6+
Netscape hasnt got long left till it passes on.

Camz.
www.t94xr.net.nz
- Original Message - 
From: "Veine K Vikberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:36 AM
Subject: [WSG] Have stared too long


> and I am probably missing something really simple;
>
> This is the page in question:
>
> http://nrotc.mainemaritime.edu/goals.html
>
> (css in separate file)
>
> This Page Is Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict and before jigsaw went down, the CSS
> was having no errors as well. It also passes as Section 508 (which are the
> goals for the site)
>
> The page looks kind of intended in Netscape 7.1, but no where else (IE,
> Opera etc) My main problem is the blasted unordered list where the bullets
> disappear in IE, and the picture going off to the left in Opera.
>
> Any help would is appreciated as I have spent the last 5 hours trying to
> get this one to work.
>
> Disclaimer: the css file is huge and probably have a lot of extras that
> needs to be taken out, but as long as I can't get it to work as intended I
> am not prone to cut anything out ..
>
>TIA
>  ~Veine
>
> Veine K Vikberg
>
>


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Re: [WSG] XHTML Transitional -> Strict

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Title: XHTML Transitional -> Strict



Strict isnt much different from Trrans
 
no 
theres a _javascript_ replacement.
 
other than theres a cuopkle of things but W3C will 
tell you about them.
Simple.
 
Camz
www.t94xr.net.nz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jamie Mason 
  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:00 
  PM
  Subject: [WSG] XHTML Transitional -> 
  Strict
  
  Hello all, I was hoping one of you 
  could tell me, or know any url's that would be helpful on moving from XHTML 
  Transitional to Strict. 
  What are the main things to look out for when moving over? 
  What is allowed in Transitional that has to be removed for strict?
  Thanks a lot, 
  Jamie Mason: Design T: (01423) 
  700849 

Re: [WSG] Recommended Books

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

HTML & XHTML - The Definitive Guide 5th Edition (O'Reilly-2002)
O'Reilly Cascading Style Sheets The Definitive Guide
New Riders -  Speed Up Your Site- 1st Ed 2003 [CHM]
Website Analysis & Reporting

Generally anything & I mean ANYTHING of Eric Meyers

Camz

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Re: [WSG] Mac testers please

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to test my site using IE
> > for
> > Mac 5+ and Safari
> >
> > http://www.v2.shockmedia.com.au
> >
> > Thanks.

Damn, forget the rest of the site - put her as the only thing on the page
and you'll have everyone still agreeing its a great site.


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Re: [WSG] Unsubscribe

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

He has a good & valid point.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Paulo 
  Rodrigo Teixeira 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 3:14 
  AM
  Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [WSG] 
  Unsubscribe
  
  
  
   
  
  
  Yahoo! 
  Mail - Participe da pesquisa global sobre o Yahoo! Mail. Clique 
  aqui!

Re: [WSG] Free presentation for Sydney WSG members and their bosses

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I hate asking this :P

Can you setup a couple of nights over here in NZ and do it aswell
I know plenty of people who would love to go see it.

Camz (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
Taupo NZ
XHTML & CSS Webdevelper (PHP Newbie)

- Original Message - 
From: "russ - maxdesign" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Web Standards Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:59 AM
Subject: [WSG] Free presentation for Sydney WSG members and their bosses


> As a preview to WE04, Web Essentials and the Web Standards Group will be
> hosting a free briefing in Sydney for executives and decision makers,
> addressing the business issues associated with web standards and
> accessibility.
>
> In other words, we want you to bring your bosses along for a short
> presentation - so we can help persuade them of the importance of web
> standards.
>
> Roger Hudson (Web Usability) and John Allsopp (Westciv) will cover the
core
> aspects of web development best practice from the perspective of the
> decision maker. Roger, John, Peter Ottery (F2) and others will then be
> available for questions - over a drink and a bite to eat.
>
> We will also be giving away 1 pass to the Web Essentials conference, 3
> copies of Style Master and more... anything to get your boss to come  :)
>
> Cost: Free
> Date: Thursday July 1, 2004
> Time: 6:00pm for 6.30pm start (refreshments supplied)
> Venue: Red Square. 49 Greek Street Glebe 2037 Australia
> RSVP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> More: http://www.we04.com/briefing.cfm
>
> Thanks
> Russ
>
> *
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> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WSG] OT - Standards Compliant Websites Directory

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

HELL YEAH!!!

- Original Message - 
From: "Razvan Pop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:58 AM
Subject: [WSG] OT - Standards Compliant Websites Directory


> Hello.
> 
> I've started to build a "Standards Compliant Websites Directory". A Web 
> Directory where only Valid W3C sites will be accepted. What do you 
> think? Should I continue?
> *
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> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> * 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [WSG] 508??

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Sure, if you explain what on earth you're talking about.
-- tim
508 is this,
http://www.contentquality.com/mynewtester/cynthia.exe?rptmode=-1&runcr=1&url1=http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
Conformance to web accessability standards produced by the W3C.
Basically those ponts there tell you wats required for 508 compliance.
Its a first and simple step.
t94xr
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
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Re: [WSG] 508??

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Sure, if you explain what on earth you're talking about.
-- tim
508 is this,
http://www.contentquality.com/mynewtester/cynthia.exe?rptmode=-1&runcr=1&url1=http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
Conformance to web accessability standards produced by the W3C.
Basically those ponts there tell you wats required for 508 compliance.
Its a first and simple step.
t94xr
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
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Re: [WSG] What do browsers download?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

this may sound like a stupid answer but wouldnt it be like an html page of 
somesort.

t94xr
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ 

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[WSG] webstandards.org.nz - taken!! :O

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Well here was just about to register webstandards.org.nz with my
domain agency & to my suprise it was taken!!
http://www.webstandards.org.nz/
Moral: Always check to see if the URL is valid in a browser,
before you try and register it!
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant webdesigner.
Taupo, NZ.
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Re: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

thats actually very good :)
Thanks :)
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
- Original Message - 
From: "Neerav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:50 AM
Subject: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS


I havent tried this, but it sounds interesting
http://www.phoenity.com/newtedge/hide_email_spambots/
--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
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Re: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ted Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I use the following javascript. It works well for me.
Ted
-

the downside beign they dont use a JS enabled browser? They cant contact 
you.
Better is a PHP Contact Form
John Wyles has one - a very good one indeed.
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ. 

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Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I found this expandable CSS div with JS when i was working at ForumImages.
http://www.forumimages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324&highlight=FICodeExpand
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
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Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I found this expandable CSS div with JS when i was working at ForumImages.
http://www.forumimages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324&highlight=FICodeExpand
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
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Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I found this expandable CSS div with JS when i was working at ForumImages.
http://www.forumimages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324&highlight=FICodeExpand
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
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Re: [WSG] CSS based redesign of http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

/* @import url("template.css"); */
/* @import url("article-tools.css"); */
/* @import url("article-list.css"); */

/* @import url("store.css"); */
/* @import url("TOC.css"); */
OMG
theres organisational skills but then theres organisational skills.
imports are now generally used for IE css bug fixes.
but thats a bit overboard.
_
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://freelance.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant Webdesigner.
Taupo, NZ.
Mob: 021 050-7304
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Re: [WSG] CSS based redesign of http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

imports are now generally used for IE css bug fixes.
but thats a bit overboard.
Could you qualify this statement please? @import is used to import
stylesheets. We don't want to give members who might be new to CSS the
wrong idea here.
thats one valid point. 
but its a trend to put IE CSS fixes and hacks in a file imported by IE


Conditional comments have slowly been the new IE import.
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Re: [WSG] Brisbane July Meeting - Report

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

From: "Lea de Groot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
A very interesting and detailed open forum followed - for those who 
were unable to attend, you *really* missed something!

Next meeting should be Wed September 8 - put it in your diary now! :)
And what do we do if we are in New Zealand?
Can you have a meeting here and let us join?
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
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Re: [WSG] Re:

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Yes i agree highly - im glad you brought tho my 
attention.
 
We should discuss this to the highest level of WSG 
discussion.
 
_Cameron W 
(aka t94xr)http://freelance.t94xr.net.nz/XHTML 
& CSS Compliant Webdesigner.Taupo, NZ.Mob: 021 050-7304

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Russ 
  
  To: Wsg 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:16 
  PM
  Subject: [WSG] Re:
  >PredatorsPassword: 

Re: [WSG] After CSS?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Well done.
Sadly there are alot of webdesigners unlike you who are still in the 
Photoshop phase and dont seem to be leaving it anytime soon.

I would say if you know all that, learn how to setup a domain, and get 
yourself up.
Then you can play at ur hearts content.

If you love CSS - use Topstyle - it enters you into another kind of phase.
Dreamweaver MX 2004 for your XHTML coding and PHP coding.
Localhost (convert your computer into a makeshift HTTP server and run ur 
sites with PHP. Small HTTP Server is recommended for a small one.

___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ. 

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Re: [WSG] Ikon

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

From: "Peter Firminger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [WSG] Ikon

You go to bed for a few hours and look what happens!
Ikon has left the building!
P
yeah i know what you mean.
I just purchased a 6pk of Ikon energy drinks couple of nights ago and 
they've disappeared aswell.

hmm
_
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://freelance.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant Webdesigner.
Taupo, NZ.
Mob: 021 050-7304 

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Re: [WSG] HTML & CSS references

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

http://www.forumimages.com/ref/html/index.php
heres one :D
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
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Re: [WSG] Re: Xhtmlandcss.co.uk Email

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

thats an odd domain.
which is why it hastn been taken before you.
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Harwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 12:51 AM
Subject: [WSG] Re: Xhtmlandcss.co.uk Email


Hi All,
I've just bought the Domain XhtmlandCss.co.uk and wanted to offer 
email forwarders to anyone intrested in one?

I know its not what i should really use the list for but i just 
wanted to offer it out to y'all

Just email me what you would like and where you would like it 
forwarding too...

Cheers
Mark Harwood
http://phunky.co.uk
http://zinkmedia.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] [OT] NZ vs Aust

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

WE ARE NOT AUSSIES
WE ARE CLEARLY DIFFERENT/SUPERIOR TO THE AUSSIES
KIWI'S RULE!!!
For someone to say we are one in the same, its an unsult.
___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:31 PM
Subject: [WSG] [OT] NZ vs Aust


Natalie> Yeah, but the Kiwis are not Australians, they are New Zealanders, 
so
Natalie> we have an excuse ;p

ok, I know this is waaay off-topic, and I *do* promise no more posts
on it, but trash talking is trash talking :)
So, to use a couple of pertinent title tags from Natalie's site
 ...
No, Kiwis are not Australians - "Love it or Shove it"
and as for Australians .. hmmm ... - "all talk, no walk" springs to
mind :)
Mike Brown
(ducking and running in NZ)
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Re: [WSG] [OT] NZ vs Aust

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Guys,
To put a final end to this topic 

You Aussies will never have us Kiwis. 
We would rather bring our country down to get 
away from yours.

Its embarrasing when people mix us up when
they mention "down under".
And besides, theres a clear line between us Kiwis
and you aussies. We are a much superior people.
:D 

___
Cameron W (aka t94xr)
http://www.t94xr.net.nz/
XHTML & CSS Compliant.
Taupo, NZ.
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[WSG] finally a mailing list thats perfect!

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Awesome a mailing list that i wanted.
 
Hi, - im t94xr
www.t94xr.net.nz

Re: [WSG] CSS editor

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

> Not free, but you could do a lot worse than Top Style 3. It combines HTML
> editing and CSS. Wriiten by the creator of Homsite.

Topstyle Pro 3.10 Pro is a better bet.
Even tho there are copies floating around the net - one even on FOSIs site
where ever that is.

I purchased mine, I strongly recommend it for CSS editing.

The free ones dont even come close.

Camz


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Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

www.MACCAWS.org

Thats a good reason to produce standards compliant websites.
I recently had one job which the coding was easy, the actual complexity of
the detail which was so high it was just a to big a job for me to do :(
But the person who offered me the job, saw my site and emailed me.

What was the significant factor, have you seen my site? www.t94xr.net.nz

Camz

- Original Message -
From: "Nan Zhong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more?


> Hello,
>
> Well I have. I'm still a high school student and therefore have no real
> qualifications other than experience. However people have seen my work
> and still come to me for design jobs. I charge less (again due to
> qualifications) but one of the main reasons people still contact me for
> design contracts even though they know my age and such is that I design
> by web standards.
>
> Nan Zhong
>
> Neerav wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > The slightly OT thread [WSG] Budget Design, made me think of an idea
> > which is very relevent to all members of WSG ..
> >
> > My premise is that any sensible business person should try to
> > differentiate from competitors by showing they have skills that no one
> > else has, vast experience etc and justify charging more than the
> > competition because of that
> >
> > So has any member of the WSG done that, justifying charging $X more
> > than eg: "the design agency down the road which makes webpages by
> > putting sliced photoshop images into tables" by saying something along
> > the lines of
> >
> > "I design to Web Standards and can show my product validates against
> > these standards, this is like an industrial business getting ISO
> > Quality certification for their processes and means my product/service
> > satisfies web industry standards for quality of code, can other
> > companies with proposals for your project do the same ?"
> >
>
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> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more?

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

www.MACCAWS.org

Thats a good reason to produce standards compliant websites.
I recently had one job which the coding was easy, the actual complexity of
the detail which was so high it was just a to big a job for me to do :(
But the person who offered me the job, saw my site and emailed me.

What was the significant factor, have you seen my site? www.t94xr.net.nz

Camz

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Re: [WSG] Safe Web colors

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

> Greetings
> Useing a safe web colors, is it a standard? is it a Must?

No, as most users have full high color resolutions.

But if your website is primarily visiited by computers that cant reach high
color levels, then yeah. but otherwise its accessability shoshing over with
design issues.
the web safe color scheme is a good idea, pratical in some situations.

I've never bothered with it.

Camz
www.t94xr.net.nz


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Re: [WSG] Safe Web colors

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

no its ok - but Web Safe colors is for users who cant see higher 256colors.

- Original Message -
From: "Jad Madi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Safe Web colors


> please check http://www.easyhttp.com/design/site
> I'v used alot of colors might be hmm bright
> is it considered to be out of accessability ?
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 00:12:39 +1200, t94xr.net.nz webmaster
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Greetings
> > > Useing a safe web colors, is it a standard? is it a Must?
> >
> > No, as most users have full high color resolutions.
> >
> > But if your website is primarily visiited by computers that cant reach
high
> > color levels, then yeah. but otherwise its accessability shoshing over
with
> > design issues.
> > the web safe color scheme is a good idea, pratical in some situations.
> >
> > I've never bothered with it.
> >
> > Camz
> > www.t94xr.net.nz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > *
> >
> >
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

http://www.danvine.com/iecapture/
does this help?

Camz 
- Original Message - 
From: "Neerav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:06 PM
Subject: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash


> Hi
> 
> I was just testing http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on the standalone 
> windows versions of Internet explorer that you can get from 
> http://www.quirksmode.org/browsers/multipleie.html , all worked fine 
> except IE4 which froze immediately after displaying the page and took up 
> 100% of cpu time until i killed its process
> 
> Does anyone have a "real" Win IE4 they could test 
> http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on to see if it still crashes ?
> 
> thanks
> 
> -- 
> Neerav Bhatt
> http://www.bhatt.id.au
> Web Development & IT consultancy
> Mobile: +61 403 8000 27
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> * 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

:O lmfao
email the guy apologising just incase! :D!!
Hes pretty sweet...

- Original Message -
From: "Neerav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash


> Oh dear ... now his IEcapture page isnt responding for newly entered
> pages to test ... hope I didnt do anything to it.
>
> t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote:
> > http://www.danvine.com/iecapture/
> > does this help?
> >
> > Camz
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Neerav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "WSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:06 PM
> > Subject: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hi
> >>
> >>I was just testing http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on the standalone
> >>windows versions of Internet explorer that you can get from
> >>http://www.quirksmode.org/browsers/multipleie.html , all worked fine
> >>except IE4 which froze immediately after displaying the page and took up
> >>100% of cpu time until i killed its process
> >>
> >>Does anyone have a "real" Win IE4 they could test
> >>http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on to see if it still crashes ?
> >>
> >>thanks
> >>
> >>--
> >>Neerav Bhatt
> >>http://www.bhatt.id.au
> >>Web Development & IT consultancy
> >>Mobile: +61 403 8000 27
> >>*
> >>The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> >>See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> >>for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> >>*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > *
> > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > *
>
>
> --
> Neerav Bhatt
> http://www.bhatt.id.au
> Web Development & IT consultancy
> Mobile: +61 403 8000 27
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WSG] accessibility feedback

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

  Andreas Boehmer wrote: Hi guys,I was wondering whether you could 
  give me some feedback on a website we havecreated: http://www.jet.org.au.We have tried to make it as 
  accessible as possible, but better than anyBobby or W3C validation is 
  probably going through your critique. We arestill working on improving it, 
  but please feel free to be tough critics!
Nice layout 
Login box perfectly placed - rendering time is 
of very good standards ( im on a 28k connection ha! fkd 56k 
modem)
Would be good if there was a different random quote 
from a different profession, different image and quote with "" and a name giving 
a bit of their story on how they got the job thru your website. Gives the 
impression that you've actually reached those numbers you claim to 
have.
 
The general site design is well highly perfected, 
the designer has alot of talent.
 
Camz

Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

> If this doesn't convince a web professional to take a serious look at
these
> standards nothing will.

and MACCAWS ( www.MACCAWS.org ) doesnt do this?

Camz


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Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I found it quite a good read...

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mordechai 
  Peller 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 1:04 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WSG] At last - here are the 
  dollars in web standards.
  t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote:
  
If this doesn't convince a web professional to take a serious look at
these
  
standards nothing will.

and MACCAWS ( www.MACCAWS.org ) doesnt do this?
  Not the same way. maccaws' argument is an intellectual 
  argument, while Robinson's is an emotional one. While maccaws' the better 
  argument, in this generation of 30 second attention spans (if that long), 
  Robinson's has a better chance of working.Ultimately the best argument 
  is the result of a combination of both.

Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

their site is what you call a "white paper" its like a government report but
on the net.
Governments around the world have read it. Its fairly simple ot navigate.

- Original Message -
From: "Michael Kear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.


> I don't know I've never read it.  You go to Maccaws.org and you have to go
> off to another link to read anything useful.   Like the old days of the
> portals.   No one had any content, only links to more sites that are
> themselves just pages of more links.
>
> I can't be bothered going from link to link to link to link to find
> something worth reading. If a poster cant be bothered putting a link to
> actual content, why should I have to bother?  Why would I have to hunt out
> what on earth Maccaws.org means in order to find out if I want to read it
or
> not.
>
> If you see my post about the other article, you'll see in my post why I
> think it's worth reading.   You don't have to go any further to decide if
> you want to follow it up yourself.
>
> "Maccaws.org" tells me nothing except that it's perhaps a site about South
> American parrots.
>
>
> Cheers
> Mike Kear
> Windsor, NSW, Australia
> AFP Webworks
> http://afpwebworks.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of t94xr.net.nz webmaster
> Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.
>
> > If this doesn't convince a web professional to take a serious look at
> these
> > standards nothing will.
>
> and MACCAWS ( www.MACCAWS.org ) doesnt do this?
>
> Camz
>
>
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WSG] SkillSwap

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

can you get it in New Zealand?

Camz

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Harwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] SkillSwap


> Still kinda Useful info!
> 
> Phunky
> 
> 
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> * 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I would recommend you do both - have a standards 
compliant accessable site, but include an interactive area.
A xhtml/css & php/mysql "photobook" with 
the club at certian nights - preferably the peak holiday periods.
 
Give them the best of both worlds. a quick loading 
site with an area where they can have alot more interactive with the site. 
A guestbook would be excellent aswell. runnnig 
off a db accessed both by the interactive area and the xhtml css 
area.
 
Camz
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Chris 
  Stratford 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:28 
  PM
  Subject: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- 
  User Enjoyment
  Hey list,I have something 
  which has been a major topic of discussion between a friend and I.I am 
  currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney Nightclubs 
  (R&B Scene)To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use 
  webstandards and efficent coding to make the website...Or do I use Flash, 
  Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations etc... To get people 
  interested.Really it is a question of - do I make the website for 
  viewer enjoyment, or for the widest viewer spectrum.I am not sure if 
  many of you would be in the same situation, but I can imagine it has come up 
  at least once with us all before.Whether its a news website, or a Hosting 
  companies website...My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont 
  want web standards, they want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures 
  help, and sounds are good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).My 
  website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one which my 
  friend came up with:http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.htmlI 
  think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.It was an eye opener 
  thinking it was as simple as it was.It works in FireFox (exept sound) 
  which is good...But the fact that it looks good with such a simply 
  design.What are your opinions - and can you lend me any 
  assistance.Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather 
  use standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy because 
  there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...I could code that in 
  CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with Tables.Anyway!Let 
  me know what you all think!Cheers!Chris 
Stratford.