RE: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
I agree. I actually tried to unsubscribe from the list so I could just view the list archive at my leisure. But if you unsubscribe the page reads: _ |_| Yes. Remove me from the mailing list and delete my membership. I did not want my membership revoked, I just can't weed through 100+ emails every day. Also, you can't see the list archive unless you are on the list. Maybe have 3 or 4 lists with a focus such as XHTML, CSS, general, etc... Or a way to be a member without being on the list would be great as well. Terry -Original Message- Hi Guys, I've noticed that this list has grown and grown and has gotten too big to be read on a daily basis. I was wondering if there's any consideration of maybe splitting the listing into a handful of different topics and then allowing members to subscribe to one or more specific topics. So if my interest right now is CSS I could subscribe to that topic. Related, I've heard that the CSS-foundations list will be joining this one. These daily emails can only get bigger. Just some thoughts, Thanks for all the great comments help and community, Chris Rizzo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] RE: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sounds like something that should be dynamic. Maybe Macromedia will build it intot the next version of Dreamweaver. ;) The loveely people at I Love Jack Daniels havea handy refeerence sheet you may like but it's not quite what you're after. http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/css/css-cheat-sheet/ A CSS validator is another good option but it's more of an after-the-fact solution. Try the W3C's Jigsaw. http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator-uri.html Sorry I couldn't be more help but these should be of some assistance. From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 2:53 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Is there any guide or cheat sheet out there somewhere which gives the exact properties of each html element which CAN be altered/positioned/styled via CSS? Like I've been putting: margin: 0; padding: 0; on a default table rule set, but something I've just read "indicates" that tables don't have padding - so the padding rule for tables is useless. I've been doing the same for trs, but something else I came acrosssaid that tr's don't have margin or padding properties. I'm trying to streamline my stylesheets and would like to get rid of any superflous rules that don't apply- or have no effect on -specific elements. The easiest way I can think of to do this would be to reference some kind of (easy to understand) document that says - or shows - that you can set the margin of a table, but not the padding, etc. Cole
[WSG] RE: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
The URL is getting re-written or re-directed to http://survey.whatcanido.com.au/Survey/Index.contentand then I getthe magicalPage cannot be found error. From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2005 2:55 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Guys n gals, Im having some quirky layout issues with http://survey.whatcanido.com.au/ specifically starting on page two of the survey, Questions2.fuel. The issues are pretty clearly visible. Any assistance with generally improving the pages would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Technical Director, Fuel Advance www.fueladvance.com
[WSG] RE: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
And there's also an open-source system now available at www.browsershots.org which won't cost you anything. From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 3:21 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org http://www.browsercam.com/ - that really handy site that allow you to preview screenshots of your webpage on all browser/platform combinations.
RE: [WSG] Page structure - navigation
I tend to agree. Navigation should come first with a skip link to content, OR content before naviagation but with a skip link to navigation. The display:none technique is pretty much the norm now for this screen reader issue. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erica JeanSent: Friday, 24 June 2005 10:48 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Page structure - navigation Actually, the site I read said the link should read "Skip tothe main content." Whole thing. Because otherwise (from what I understood) if it isnt' written out that way, the screen reader pronounces content wrong. It pronouncesit like the verb... the dog was content. And neither link would nessicarily have to show up on your finished page if you style them with display:none;. It would be there for the sole purpose of users with screen readers. I would use: Skip tothe main content. Skip to the navigation menu. ---Original Message--- From: Terrence Wood Date: 06/23/05 20:22:31 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Terrence Wood Subject: Re: [WSG] Page structure - navigation The technique is called reverse source order, and yes in theory it does improve your ranking in SERP's because content laden words appear at the top of the page. It also means the first screenful in a text only browser is content. I've been using this technique for over two years now, and if you position your navigation with CSS nobody can tell the difference. You don't need skip links, but you can code them in if you want, drop the "skip to" because it doesn't really make sense and add menu, as it is slightly more universally understood than navigation: * Main Content * Navigation Menu regards Terrence Wood. On 24 Jun 2005, at 11:56 AM, Darren Wood wrote: indeed. if i used a screen reader I'd rather see: * Skip To Main Content * Skip To Navigation ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Picky, picky, picky
I hate to be a pedant but descendant selectors will return much better
results.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman
Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2005 7:21 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Picky, picky, picky
On 25 Jun 2005, at 4:37 PM, Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote:
I'm almost embarrased to ask this because it's such a minor detail,
but it's driving me crazy.
First, the link: http://www.x7m.us/_testing/index2.htm
This is a new design I'm just starting to build. If you look at it in
FF/Netscape/Opera it's perfect (the latest versions of those browsers,
anyway). If you look at it in IE6 the headline image (Quality.
Reliability. Reputation.) within the h1 sits about 6 pixels lower than
it should, which of course pushes everything else down as well.
This head is suppose to align with the nav bar you see on the left. In
FF, Netscape, and Opera it does. Perfect. IE, of course, well...
I've tried everything I can think of to correct this, and I've come to
the conclusion that it's something going on with the h1. But I've
tried everything there too, including zeroing the top margin and top
padding on the h1 without result. Besides, all of these things are
already zeroed at the top of the style sheet.
Can someone spot the error of my ways when it comes to the IE
rendering?
Cole
Add this:
div { border: 1px solid #f00 }
to your css and look at the page in IE6, compared to FF. You'll see that the
extra space is actually being generated by your div id=topEdgeH. Doesn't
affect the logo placeholder, because it's positioned absolutely - but it
does push the h1 down.
Fix? You could play with the div id=topEdgeH to try and stop the extra
space (height? line-height?), or simply add
_margin-bottom: 290px;
to it for IE6 - adjust to taste.
Other comments: I realise this is a WIP, but your h1img/h1 format is
completely inaccessible - you don't even have alt text.
I suspect if you run your CSS through the validator, you'll find some errors
- I noticed some instances of 'color: Black', and I don't think you can use
upper case for color names (although I'll happily stand corrected).
More generally - I really don't think CSS needs to be this complex. I
believe you're creating more potential management headaches for yourself
with your CSS than you need to. Try Googling 'descendent selectors' and
learn how to get rid of that long list of classes. If they're in your CSS,
they're cluttering your markup, somewhere (presumably on L2 pages). And what
if you decide to change the colour of the elements you have styled by
'class='red' to another colour? Try to label CSS rules for function, rather
than appearance. You'll sleep better somewhere down the line...
And one design comment: your main headline (the one in question) has a LH
border, imaged, of red. So do your links, on hover. I immediately presumed
that the headline was a link as well...
All the above just my 2c, but HTH -
Nick
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/
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RE: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE
The site looks fine under IE6 on my PC. Nice job. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Monday, 27 June 2005 12:19 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE I was working on a site that has 4 absolute divs for two png images, a left column and a right column for menu. The two images work fine and the left column seems working fine except it doesn't stay where I want it to be, however the right column menu, links and hover are not working at all. This is the first time I have 4 absolute position wrapped in a relative div, I was wondering if IE has issue with more than one absolute div. The page: http://clients.lotusseeds.com css: http://clients.lotusseeds.com/index.css Thanks! tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE
Sorry tee. I see what you're saying.
No, the links don't work.
You've got his code for the current menu item:
li id=activea href=# id=currentKarate Overview/a/li
I would suggest you could incorporate your 'active' class into the 'current'
class and so do away with one of them. This itself could be causing
problems. BTW, I can't find a 'current' style in your CSS anywhere.
You also define height for the links when active but not in their normal
state. And I think this block here is your culprit:
#menu li#active a {
background: #fff;
width: 140px;
height: 28px;
color: #000;
}
Though exactly how to rectify it for your needs I couldn't say. Shouldn't
'active' be either a pseudo selector or a class.
Also, you might want to re-work your page layout a little so that you're
starting with an H1 and not an H2, then descend from there.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Monday, 27 June 2005 1:33 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Absolute position problem in IE
The site looks fine under IE6 on my PC. Nice job.
Thanks but are your sure the menu is working??? It obviously doesn't in my
IE 5/6 (both W2K and XP home); hover disappear and links are not clickable.
tee
I was working on a site that has 4 absolute divs for two png images, a
left column and a right column for menu. The two images work fine and
the left column seems working fine except it doesn't stay where I want
it to be, however the right column menu, links and hover are not working
at all.
This is the first time I have 4 absolute position wrapped in a
relative div, I was wondering if IE has issue with more than one absolute
div.
The page:
http://clients.lotusseeds.com
css: http://clients.lotusseeds.com/index.css
Thanks!
tee
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RE: [WSG] input/text random background color in IE?
Hi Vaska, Could it be that you have the Google seearch bar installed on your browser? It automatically highlights fields that it can complete using the AutoFill feature. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vaska.WSG Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2005 1:58 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] input/text random background color in IE? Why is it that IE turns the background of some input/text elements to light yellow? I can't find any information as to why or how it's doing this...and I want to stop it. Anybody know what this is about? Thanks, v ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Survey of Accessible Websites in New Zealand and Australia
Hi Bruce, I'm currently working on a compete re-buld of our organisations website to conform with WACG guidelines, accepted usability, W3C/CSS etc etc, you know the drill. It has been bp0th challenging and rewarding. The dev site is now at a stage where content is being added and it should go live to this domain (www.ashm.org.au) in the next coupe of weeks. You can see it now at http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au. Regards, Paul -- Technical Creative Producer, ASHM -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Aylward Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2005 11:33 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Survey of Accessible Websites in New Zealand and Australia Dear List, I am working on a survey of accessible websites in New Zealand and Australia. If you are particularly proud of an accessible website that you have developed or know of a site that should be included in the survey, please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include the URL for the site, the level of accessibility achieved and the designer contact details. Once I have collated the information and written it up I will publish the report to the WSG list. Thank you, Bruce Aylward W 3 A Limited http://www.w3a.co.nz Mobile: +64 (0)27 224 3617 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.5/32 - Release Date: 27/06/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Image Thumnail Advice
Hi Cole, Your mistake can also be step 3. If you're on a Windows box then you're quite possibly dealing with conflicting image resolutions. If you create a new image in Photoshop you'll notice that it's most likely set to 72dpi. I believe Windwos default is 80(?). I then recommend using the Image-Image Size... menu item to resize images, not Transform-Scale. If you're going to use a sharpen filter then go with Unsharp Mask ona settingn of about 150%, 1.2px, 7 threshold.You can then simply Ctrl-F to apply Last Filter in order to increase the effect if you want more. Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris DawesSent: Sunday, 3 July 2005 1:57 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: [WSG] Image Thumnail Advice Use save for web then use the resize tab below the output options. Chose jpeg medium from the top. Should be good quality output. Chris Dawes From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin - x7mSent: Sunday, 3 July 2005 12:28 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] Image Thumnail Advice Hello All - I'm having a mess of a time getting sharp thumbnails of the site's I've built into a thumbnail format. Here's what I do: 1. Load the home page of a site into a browser 2. Use a screen capture utility to snap an image of the home page 3. paste the capture into PhotoShop 4. Transform/Scale the image from it's captured size (760 pixels x 550 pixels) down to a165x 115 pixel thumbnail And...everything turns to mud - or pretty close to it. If I sharpen the thumb, it's slightly better, but sharpen too much and it's "halo" city. Yuck. I know it's an issue of pixel loss during the reduction, but what to do? Surely there must be a better way as I've seen some sites with small thumbs of large images that are excellent looking. What are they doing (or what are YOU doing) that I'm not? Thanks to al in advance, Cole
RE: [WSG] SV: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
On this note, does anyone know how to dynamically recreate all the other
image alignment options currently available through HTML? E.g. absmiddle,
text-top etc., or are we stuck with right/left and then margin settings?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Sunday, 3 July 2005 2:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] SV: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Importance: High
The obvious img{float:left} is not good - client dont want the text to
be displayed under the image.
If all images ware the same size - it would be simple - just add
margin to p, but its not like that... :( And i hate creating classes
like that: .img110px .img180px .
I think this is the better solution than the background image. You don't
need to declare image size but the margin or padding and float left or
right.
For example:
.image {
float: right; /* or left */
border: 2px solid #d3d3d3;
margin-left: 10px;
}
When image inserts to the p, your text will float around image according.
Examples from a site I was working:
http://clients.lotusseeds.com/dojoprocedures.html (I have the image
temporarily inserted in front of h3 )
http://clients.lotusseeds.com/style.html (image is inserted in the p tag)
If you want different padding/margin, border and float declared but don't
want to bother to create different classes in your css files, you can do
this:
p img src=yourimage.jpg alt= width=95 height=151 style=float:
left; margin-left: 0.7em; margin-bottom: 0.5em/ Blah blah blah /p
tee
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RE: [WSG] font size in a table
Hi Hope, This was bugging me for ages too. I don't know _why_ it does it but my workaround to-date has simply been to implicitly set font-size for p, td and li. My table and list text usually display larger when I only set the font-size in the body element. I've asked this question before but is there a standard way to set the font size across all elements (irrespsective of inheritance)? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hope Stewart Sent: Monday, 4 July 2005 11:12 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] font size in a table I created a simple webpage containing a few paragraphs, a list and a table (for tabular data). For some reason that I cannot for the life of me work out, the font size of the text is much bigger in the table than elsewhere on the page. (Tested in FF, Safari, Opera/mac). It's driving me nuts! I want the text in the table to be the same size as elsewhere! What am I doing wrong??? Could someone please enlighten me? A mock-up of the page is here: http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/ And the css is here: http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/css/style1.css Hope Stewart ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] font size in a table
Yes I had no idea that doctype could effect CSS rendering like this. I was always scraed to use XHTML 1.0 strict but the combination below looks good. It will become my new standard. Thanks for asking the question. Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hope Stewart Sent: Monday, 4 July 2005 1:54 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] font size in a table On 4/7/05 1:23 PM, Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was bugging me for ages too. I don't know _why_ it does it but my workaround to-date has simply been to implicitly set font-size for p, td and li. My table and list text usually display larger when I only set the font-size in the body element. I've asked this question before but is there a standard way to set the font size across all elements (irrespsective of inheritance)? Thanks for your input. I had set the font-size for p ul and li and had used these tags within the td tags, but it still did not work. Russ supplied the answer for me: I was using the wrong doctype. I've changed: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html to: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd; html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en lang=en and all works beautifully. I don't fully understand all the components of doctypes, but the one I'm now using is working. Compare http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/index.html to: http://hopestew.customer.netspace.net.au/index2.html The *only* difference in the code of these two pages are the first two lines, yet the font size behaves itself in the table on the second page because of the doctype. I don't know whether is would help in your case, but it created a miracle in mine! Hope ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] semantically correct markup for pagination
Title: semantically correct markup for "pagination" In what language, Marco? This type of functionalityis built intoalmost anysite's search page. You can find examples of it everywhere. Using PHP you would just set a couple of variables and then perform anumrows count and repeat of the same query with a LIMIT of 10 or so. e.g. $totalResults+4/10; and then a LIMIT $StartPos, 10;, where $StartPos = ($PageNo-1)*10; and PageNo is a hidden field in your form. You then just add the Prev and Next buttons with an onclick event of document.results.PageNo.value= -- and value = ++. Sorry I couldn't write it more clearly but I dont think this presents any accesibility issues. It's just a few lines of code and it will be different for every occasion and language used. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Della PinaSent: Tuesday, 5 July 2005 1:12 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] semantically correct markup for "pagination" Hi all, does anybody have an example of a semantically correct markup for a "pagination" like on www.google.com with previous and next links? Best regards from Germany, Marco Della Pina
RE: [WSG] semantically correct markup for pagination
Sorry Patrick. I was way off. I thought he was asking how to achieve the task in its enirety. I've revisited the originel email and, in my defence, it really wasn't terribly explicit. Now to tackle those Googlers. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Tuesday, 5 July 2005 1:29 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] semantically correct markup for pagination Webmaster wrote: I wasn't aware this could be achieved dynamically using HTML. Nobody said anything about HTML creating the pagination links dynamically. Have I missed something? Does PHP not represent well-formed and meaningful data? PHP outputs whatever HTML markup you tell it to output, once you've done all your totalresults/blahblah stuff. But, what should you print or echo? *That* is what the original question was. A paragraph with a series of links? An unordered list of links? A definition list? Perhaps all this time I've invested in server-side scripting has been wasted. You seem to have missed the point of the original question. I'd best let the developers at Google know. :) Yes, let them know that their pages should really be marked up with structural HTML or XHTML... :) -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Recall: [WSG] semantically correct markup for pagination
Webmaster would like to recall the message, [WSG] semantically correct markup for pagination. attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [WSG] base css
If I know the base font I'll set that and some default
colours, then set a % text size in the body {}, to avoid
any font-size setting smaller than 1em.
Hi Heretic, please explain this. How does setting a % for text-size in body
prevent the appearance of smaller than 1em font sizes? Is 100% a good
starting point for body? Enquiring minds want to know.
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[WSG] Firefox top margin
Hi guys,
I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.
I've already tried removing the first hidden DIV and anchor to no avail.
No hacks please. I'm aiming for a single stylesheet that will validate.
Hopeful, I know. ;)
And is 100.01% still the recommended font-size for body?
No live link I'm afraid but the relevant code follows.
Thanks in advance,
Paul
CSS
---
* html, body
{
padding: 0px;
margin: 0px;
}
body
{
font-size: 100.01%;
font-family: Verdana, Arial;
}
#header
{
border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
background: #005CAB;
}
#masthead
{
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
height: 52px;
border-width: 0px;
background: #005CAB url(../images/logohead.gif) no-repeat 0px 0px;
}
#masthead h1
{
padding: 0;
margin: 0.2em 0.2em 0 0;
text-align: right;
color: #fff;
}
HTML
body
div id=oldBrowserNotice class=hide
pThis site will look much better in a browser that supports a
href=http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/;
title=Download a browser that complies with Web standards.web
standards/a, but it is accessible to any
browser or Internet device./p
/div
a name=top/a
div id=header
div id=masthead
h1Australasian Society for HIV Medicine/h1
/div
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**
RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks
[sniff] You're not alone, Ted. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C. Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2005 9:34 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks Hi Al I didn't realize you were on the list. Your web site and coding was an inspiration to me when I first switched to CSS and standards-based design. Thanks Ted www.tdrake.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks From: Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks When using these filters, be careful - IE7 is coming... Wise words. Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
Keep in mind that not many people here will want to help you sort out a design that uses tables for layout. Are we not being a bit classist? Although my current site rebuild is CSS heavy I have (after much struggling with a div-based header/3-column/footer layout that is accessible, cross-browser/-platform friendly, CSS switch-less and 'hack' free) reverted to a table for this purpose. I'm not looking for sympathy or abuse; this just seemed my best option at this time. If anyone can point me in the direction of a table-less layout that performs the above functions I would be mightily obliged. Best, Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Firminger Sent: Friday, 12 August 2005 10:46 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue Hmmm, back to the basics of this list. Please read the section on Asking for help on the list http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Validate your code. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.olpguitars.com/olp_basses/occ/o cc_chopperbass.asp Fix those 125 errors and then ask again. Keep in mind that not many people here will want to help you sort out a design that uses tables for layout. P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 12:43 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Spacing Issue I have been working with these sliced images and occasionally run into this issue. At the bottom right just below the footer info is a small area that appears to have shifted somewhat. Can someone be so kind as to point me to what is causing this? http://www.olpguitars.com/olp_basses/occ/occ_chopperbass.asp Thanks Jeff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
a div-based header/3-column/footer layout that is accessible. http://www.google.com/search?q=3+column+accessible+css+layout yields some good results... Sadly not. The search for a valid CSS/(X)HTML, hack-free, 3-column CSS layout continues. I'm still accepting offers for a solution. Even one that requires a combination of techniques which incorporate a baseline footer and other goodies. For those who are interested in using a real world example, please feel free to replicate my organisation's soon-to-launch site without tables. Now there's a Web stabdards challenge for you. http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/ You can see I didn't try terribly hard. And, yes, I'm aware that TD widths are deprecated. But what's a boy to do, eh? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
If there's a tradeoff between tables or two hacks I'll take the two hacks. Hi Tatham, Looks good. I'll ignore the 'get over it' and move to accept your suggestion that a couple of hacks are acceptable. My only real issue with hacks is that they are not future proof. I see many sites not unlike Virtual Earth hitting the Net very soon. :) Well done. RIP Brian Grimmer ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue
The search for a valid CSS/(X)HTML, hack-free, 3-column CSS layout continues. Thierry wrote: Did you see this one?: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/3cols/3cols/6.asp Again, nice. But negative margins are not a solution I enjoy and IE still requires scripting for height. The good news is that this thread has inspired me to go back to the drawing board and try again. Perhaps it's as a result of the tips I've picked up from this list that I seem to be achieving a much higher rate of success than the last time round. Suffice to say my results will eventually be posted here for your dissecting pleasure. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Body text disappears in IE when window is maximised
Hi all, As promised I've been working away again creating a hack-free version of the Holy Grail 3-col layout. I have had some measure of success. The results can be viewd here for anyone who's interested. http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/layout_test.htm I now ask the list's help in resolving a very odd and new bug to me. It only seems to occur in IE and happens when the window is maximised using the browser window's icon. I'd be very interested in knwoing if anyone else sees this or has a solution. Thanks in advance, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Body text disappears in IE when window is maximised
Lindsay, you're a champion. Modifying the class itself was also required but your solution worked. Thank you, too, Ingo. I have kept your suggestion in mind for other eventualities of this kind. Does the structure of the CSS and layout seem solid enough? I'm very interested in getting feedback on this. Incidentally, there's still a slight alignment problem with the text in the main body. It sort of shimmies in about 0.2em halfway down and doesn't seem affected by window size. e.g. This is a line of text and this is the second line in the same paragraph. -Original Message- From: Lindsay Evans Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 4:52 PM Hi Paul, You're talking about the content in the middle column getting chopped off about half way down? Try changing div class=cleanernbsp;/div to br class=cleaner / ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column
Hi all, Another bizarre IE bug. I've searched and searched and can find nothing suitable to fix this. The content in the centre column (i.e. the main content) of my site template disappears on page load. It reappears as soon as you rollover any link, or drag over the body text itself. This is a continuation of the same problem I had earlier which someone recommended would be solved by using a br / as a clearing element instead of a div. Converting DIVs to BRs only resulted in more arcane behaviour. In fact, clearing floats in the usual fashion generally results in problems. The problem only seems to occur when the content in the right column exceeds the height of the centre column. For those interested the live example is here: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/layout_test.htm Any and all suggestions/solutions much appreciated. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column
Hi Christian. Yes, I have.
The clearer class looks like this.
.clearer {clear:
both;line-height: 0; height: 0;margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;background:
transparent;}
For those not seeing the problem it is duplicated ONLY
under these circumstamces.
1.The centre colums content height is less than that
of the right column AND you click in the Address bar after page load and
hit RETURN.
2. On an subsequent visit using the browser's arrow
keys.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian
MontoyaSent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:14 PMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Disappearing conent in
middle column
Are you applying "clear:both;" to these divs?
On 9/20/05, Webmaster
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi
all,Another bizarre IE bug. I've searched and searched and can find
nothing suitable to fix this.The content in the centre column
(i.e. the main content) of my site templatedisappears on page load. It
reappears as soon as you rollover any link, ordrag over the body text
itself. This is a continuation of the same problem I had earlier which
someonerecommended would be solved by using a br / as a clearing
element insteadof a div.Converting DIVs to BRs only
resulted in more arcane behaviour. In fact, clearing floats in the usual
fashion generally results in problems.The problem only seems to occur
when the content in the right column exceedsthe height of the centre
column.For those interested the live example is here: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/layout_test.htmAny
and all suggestions/solutions much
appreciated.Paul**
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http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting
help**
RE: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column
Hi Andreas, That's the bug alright. If only I'd thought to search Google for 'peekaboo' and not 'CSS content disappears' or similar. ;) Gunlaug's fix certainly did the trick. Thanks, Gunlaug! It appears the Holly Hack might also work but would oyu believe the original article for this on PositionIsEverytyhing ( www.positioniseverything.net/articles/hollyhack.html )has now been moved to http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=47F29 and requires payment?! Thanks a lot for your quick responses. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column -Original Message- From: Webmaster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 2:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Disappearing conent in middle column The content in the centre column (i.e. the main content) of my site template disappears on page load. It reappears as soon as you rollover any link, or drag over the body text itself. Did you check if it is the peekaboo bug? http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com
Dodge the bad and just watch all the good, Andy. It's a great site. It's visual simplicity belies the efforts you've gone to in creating it. I love the testimonial blockquote styling. Tray shiek. I've gotta tell you though, I did notice a few clear: rights in those stylesheets. :) One curious thing I noticed (which only appears if you really scrunch the page size) is that the header actually develops horizontal and vertical scrollbars. No biggie. I was at about 600x480 at that stage. Again, kudos for going with a fluid full-width display. Makes me feel less alone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 9:19 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearleft.com A little on the boring side, where are the images, the site is just text. Well I wanted to make the logo spin, but the others thought it was a bad idea ;-) Seriously though, we will be adding pictures of us on the relevant about pages, as well as creating a case study area in the not too distant future to highlight interesting work. However I do think that the site is about the text rather than superfluous images, so we wanted to put the content at the forefront of the site. Yours Andy Budd http://www.andybudd.com/ 01273 241355 07880 636677 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com
Oh, one small encoding issue (?) which came up as well. For some reason I'm getting the HTML entity and not the in the text below. Download and complete our client worksheet, and weapos;ll send you a proposal within a week. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 1:59 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Clearleft.com Hi folks, We've just launched our new company website, and would love your feedback. http://www.clearleft.com/ Yours Andy Budd http://www.andybudd.com/ 01273 241355 07880 636677 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] two background images + fixed width layout
Tee, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve but why don't you
just try nesting a couple of divs and giving them a background image each?
The following example illustrates the idea and would visually display a
three column layout. Of course, you could use and combination of images and
positiong that you liked.
#main1 {background: url(../images/grey.gif) top left repeat-y;}
#main2 {background:url(../images/blue.gif) top right repeat-y;}
div id=main1
div id=main2
/div/div
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 9:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] two background images + fixed width layout
Hi, I am working on a fixed width layout site that I would like to use two
background images. I know that it's impossible to do so in CSS however is
there a (standards compliant) trick I could use? Or do you know CSS based
website that use two background images that you can point me to?
I was thinking to use extra divs just for background images but with fixed
layout my content gone south as soon as I applied the extra divs.
Please see the current layout here:
http://lxm.lotusseeds.com/index.html
The first part of background image (dark green) is placed in the #container
which goes all the way down to #footer.
Then I have the drop shadow part of the background (dark green and earth
tone) in #wrapper, and the first part of earth tone placed in
#supportingText, then the bottom part in #footer.
However I would like to achieve this:
the first part of dark green background image runs across entire screen
horizontally (repeat-x) (I guess I can set a fixed height with no repeat-y
to achieve the visual effect I wanted)
the second part of earth tone background image runs across entire screen
horizontally (repeat-x)
and everything in the #container stays the same.
Is this do-able?
Thanks in advance!
tee
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RE: [WSG] two background images + fixed width layout
Hi, Sorry for my poor English :( This is what I want : http://lxm.lotusseeds.com/example.gif Ah, yes. That helps. It's tricky but do-able. The trick will be using GIFs with transparency. All very accessible. And this requires fluid layout? Not at all. In fact, fixed layout would probably suit your purposes better here unless you were going to use the same alignment on all your background images. Incidentally, I would try to achieve this with two images and no more. Play around with it and you'll get something you're happy with. It may not mirrow the original image exactly though. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] ol displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3
The far simpler way would be simpy to use: ol start=3 type=1li class=MsoNormalText/lili class=MsoNormalText/lili class=MsoNormalText/li/ol Works in IE and Firefox. Probably all the others too. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James EllisSent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:24 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] ol displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3 HiYes there is, using "counter". Only works in Opera and KHTML browser (Konquerer, possibly Safari), though.http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/css2/sec12-05a.htmCheersJames On 9/21/05, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to make list look like 3.1 text text 3.2 text text 3.3 text text 3.4 text text Instead of 1 text text 2 text text 3 text text 4 text text I am thinking NOT with plain markup, but I could be wrong (just checking). And how would someone else do this? Just use ul and put the numbering within the list item as text? Taco Fleur - Pacific Foxan industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 http://www.pacificfox.com
RE: [WSG] ol displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3
The far simpler way would be simpy to use: ol start=3 type=1li class=MsoNormalText/lili class=MsoNormalText/lili class=MsoNormalText/li/ol Works in IE and Firefox. Probably all the others too. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James EllisSent: Wednesday, 21 September 2005 10:24 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] ol displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3 HiYes there is, using "counter". Only works in Opera and KHTML browser (Konquerer, possibly Safari), though.http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/css2/sec12-05a.htmCheersJames On 9/21/05, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to make list look like 3.1 text text 3.2 text text 3.3 text text 3.4 text text Instead of 1 text text 2 text text 3 text text 4 text text I am thinking NOT with plain markup, but I could be wrong (just checking). And how would someone else do this? Just use ul and put the numbering within the list item as text? Taco Fleur - Pacific Foxan industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 http://www.pacificfox.com
RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com
If it was spinning, the name clear:left would have to change to clear:right at every 180 degrees. or clear:both :o) You guys are just s 80s. ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box
Janelle, I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and assume that
the difficulty you've been having is a result of the much-discussed and lightly
documented IE font-size bug.
As stated in previous posts, simplygive your html or
body tag a font-size of 100.01% and then use ems (preferably) for any further
definitions.
I usually follow with a few basics
like:
p, li, input{ font-size: 80% }
Tabel cells sometimes inherit depending on how the rest of
your stylesheet is set up.
Give it a go. You'll see it works and that it's muc easier
to keep site-wide control.
The other option of fixing a 9pt font is simply a big fat
no-no. :)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janelle
ClemensSent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 7:42 AMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] controlling font size in form
text box
My designer is on me
to reduce the size of the font in the search box on the templates for our
redesign. But I can not get it to budge without getting too
small. Does anyone know of a trick for this. We
have decided to use a fixed font (px or pt) for the search box text.
Two reasons: 1.to keep it constant when a viewer increases
their browser font, and 2. using em was way to inconsistent cross
browser. The text under the search box is the size my designer
wants it to be.
http://www.sgi.com/tempie/search_font.html
.box {font-size:
9px;}
Thank
you,
Janelle
RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box
Another cool tool, which is free, is Screen Ruler. http://www.spadixbd.com/freetools/jruler.htm It's only limitation IMO is that is can only measure in pixels, inches, picas and centimeters. The developer is the type of guy that would happily add other units however. Especially for the sake of accessibility. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Bennett Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 8:07 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box 1. personally that font size is already borderline readable (and I have good vision) any smaller than 9px (some would say 10px) is getting into the squinty-eyes arena. 2. According to my screen callipers, the font size the designer wants is 7px. There's a reason it looks too small at this size - because it is. Your designer might have to just be happy with 9px IMHO. Paul tip type=Screen Callipers Need to measure things onscreen (to appease designers, for example) then check out this 'Screen Callipers' utility: http://www.iconico.com/caliper/index.aspx (I'm not afflated, just a happy user) /tip ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box
Janelle Clemens wrote: using em was way to inconsistent cross browser. Janelle, another thing to consider when using ems and % for your font-size is to also apply these units to your layout (header, columns etc.). This way everything will flow just beautifully when resized. You need to get your designer to think outside the box and not be so precious. I've settled many an argument simply by throwing quotes from the Web standards bible at people. At the end of the day, when it comes to making a site accessible, they won't have a leg to stand on... [cringe] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] keyboard onclick activation on Mac
Patrick H. Lauke quoth: Or, if you must, and your audience does include Mac users, write your own little javascript filter function to ignore TAB before activating whatever behaviour is in the onclick. And indeed one for the Enter key. I guess the point I was trying ot make is that these keys already had specific amnd well understood functions well before the Internet infected the ether. It shouldn't have been a leap of thought to reserve them for exclusive functions. As you say, the W3C got it wrong. Nuff said. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] ol displaying 3.1 3.2 etc. instead of 1 2 3
Be nice. It's a common enough solution. MS don't get absolutely everything wrong, you know. :P -Original Message- From: Patrick H. Lauke MsoNormal? Somebody's been exporting from Word, eh? ;) Webmaster wrote: The far simpler way would be simpy to use: ol start=3 type=1 li class=MsoNormalText/li li class=MsoNormalText/li li class=MsoNormalText/li /ol ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Konqueror and Galeon issues
[edit edit] Doh!
[edit] I did, of course, mean should I apply a .clearfix style to each
parent div and NOT the all-encompassing hack below.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Webmaster
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 12:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Konqueror and Galeon issues
Hi all,
The fix provided the other day to clear floats and make disappearing content
re-appear worked well enough in most browsers.
However, having just performed a preview test at http://browsershots.org
(incidentally, this site deserves an award for its service to the web-dev
community), I'm horrified to discover that my third column is pulling back
into the centre in these two broswers.
The question is: should I care? Is this due to quirks in those browsers? All
others display just how I intended.
The screenshots can be viewed here:
http://browsershots.org/website/363651/
Do I simply need to apply my fix to ALL higher-level container divs?
/* Improved hack for Peekaboo bug which causes content from #middle
to disappear
if its height is less than that of #right. Include backjslash here
for IE5-Mac \*/
@media screen {
* html #middle { height: 0; }
}
/* end fix */
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[WSG] WE05 - who's going?
So who's going to the Web Essnetials conference this week? Anyone interested in a group catch-up? I thought it might be nice to put some faces to all these names. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WE05 - who's going?
Well I don't know if everyone else is the die-hard fan of this group that I am but I thought a forehead tattoo with 'WSG' would do the trick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 3:09 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] WE05 - who's going? How about a secret password that you have to sneak into the first 60 seconds of meeting someone :)..? any ideas? -Original Message- From: Focas, Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 3:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] WE05 - who's going? I'm going, see you there. Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Webmaster Sent: Tuesday, 27 September 2005 2:19 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] WE05 - who's going? So who's going to the Web Essnetials conference this week? Anyone interested in a group catch-up? I thought it might be nice to put some faces to all these names. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Hiding Headings
Don't both these solutions still have the same issue with
Firefox's ability to drag content areas?
Has display:none become un-PC of
late?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian
MontoyaSent: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 12:53 PMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Hiding
Headings
Psh, left? Do top:h1 {position: absolute;top:
-1px;}No need to risk the embarrasment of having the h1 element
seen on a 12,000 pixel resolution screen.
On 9/27/05, Lance
Willett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On
9/27/05, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote:
1. Put the H1 in there, but set it's display to "none" on
the style sheet. 2. Set the header
overflow to hidden, then set the top padding on the H1 to be a
pixel more than the header's height - thereby hiding the heading
text.One problem I discovered with the second
method - you can drag the content in Firefox, revealing the
heading... Which approach is better?Do
search engine spiders know the heading is hidden in scenario one
and skip that text?Is there a known workaround for
the issue caused by scenario two? Instead of {display: none},
use {margin-left: 999px}. Visitors won't see the H1 text, but Search
Engines will; and nothing to see if content dragged...
N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/
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Joseph,I agree with Nick, except I would do
px.I made the mistake ofdoing 999px one time, and on a
large monitor the h1 snuck in from theside and it was
embarassing!So your CSS would look like this: h1
{position: absolute;left: -px;}Search engines will
still see it that way and there is no chance thatit will show on your
layout.--Lance Willettsimpledream web studioPhone:
520.954.5607Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Web: http://www.simpledream.net**
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RE: [WSG] Hiding Headings
Oh, great. So my skip links shouldn't be inside such a div then? :* So I have now changed the top of my page code to read: !-- old browser help -- div class=hide pThis site will look much better in a browser that supports a href=http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/; title=Download a browser that complies with Web standards.web standards/a, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device./p /div !-- screen reader navigation -- div class=off-left pa name=top./a a href=#skipToContentSkip navigation/a/p /div Is this the most commonly used and accessible approach? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Willett The reason display:none is unadvisable is due to screen readers ignoring the content (which since it's an h1 element we are assuming it's important). The full reasons are fleshed out here: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ScreenreaderVisibility ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Images as DIV Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Hi Fausto, To cut things short: there is nothing wrong with images used as background via CSS as long as theses images are used as layout and not to give meaningful pieces of information to the visitors. You may end up confusing people who use text-only or speech devices. Read this article from 24ways.org, I've found it very helpful, myself. You're from Brazil, hu? I'm living in Florianópolis, WONDERFUL!!! Cheers mate!!!
Re: [WSG] New to Standards.
Try this: www.w3schools.com It helped me a lot in the beginning. Cheers Paolo
Re: [WSG] Jello Mold not working right in IE/Win
#sizer {width:_expression_(document.body.clientWidth
1554 ? 402px : 75% );}
I would prefer not to have to fiddle with the proportions of the
buttons just for IE, so would it be possible for someone to translate
that _expression_ into plain english for me so I can fiddle with the
numbers instead? I don't understand what they're all doing, so it's
difficult to know where to make the changes I need.
Cheers,
Seona.
All the above means:
if the screen width is wider than 1554px then #sizer will be 402px wide, or else it will 75% of the screen width
I hope that was clear enough, it's the best I came up with ;-)
All the best and good luck
Paolo Dodet
[WSG] Correct structure of lists with headers
Hi everyone, I read some tutorials about lists but i don't find how make good structure list that have headers. How i make this list? Which are the best option? I think do it like it: OPTION 1: ul lih1Phrase Header/h1/li li ul lih2Phrase header/h2/li liPhrase header/li liPhrase header/li liPhrase header/li ul li /ul OPTION 2: ul lih1Phrase Header/h1/li lih2Phrase header/h2 ul liPhrase header/li liPhrase header/li liPhrase header/li ul li /ul Thanks, César Caballero www.darkrassel.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] HELP with CSS
Hello Olajide,
Actually yuors is a pretty simple fix.
Lose the blockquotes and p tags and include your text and graphix inside
your div with your thumbnail. Create a class called
.leftimg {
float:left;
} In your style and then call it from yourimage tag class=leftimg
A working example can be seen at http://1fite.com/17.html
I had a similar problem and solved it.
Good luck,
Troy
_
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Olajide Olaolorun
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 1:18 PM
To: WSG
Subject: [WSG] HELP with CSS
Can someone help me out here:
http://www.olajideolaolorun.com/gfx/
There is a problem with where the text start and where the pictures end..
For some reson it loads under the pictres and i have to use the p tag to
create spacing for it... can someone help me out.
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz http://www.tripleo.biz
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[WSG] finally a mailing list thats perfect!
Awesome a mailing list that i wanted. Hi, - im t94xr www.t94xr.net.nz
Re: [WSG] CSS editor
Not free, but you could do a lot worse than Top Style 3. It combines HTML editing and CSS. Wriiten by the creator of Homsite. Topstyle Pro 3.10 Pro is a better bet. Even tho there are copies floating around the net - one even on FOSIs site where ever that is. I purchased mine, I strongly recommend it for CSS editing. The free ones dont even come close. Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more?
www.MACCAWS.org Thats a good reason to produce standards compliant websites. I recently had one job which the coding was easy, the actual complexity of the detail which was so high it was just a to big a job for me to do :( But the person who offered me the job, saw my site and emailed me. What was the significant factor, have you seen my site? www.t94xr.net.nz Camz - Original Message - From: Nan Zhong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more? Hello, Well I have. I'm still a high school student and therefore have no real qualifications other than experience. However people have seen my work and still come to me for design jobs. I charge less (again due to qualifications) but one of the main reasons people still contact me for design contracts even though they know my age and such is that I design by web standards. Nan Zhong Neerav wrote: Hi The slightly OT thread [WSG] Budget Design, made me think of an idea which is very relevent to all members of WSG .. My premise is that any sensible business person should try to differentiate from competitors by showing they have skills that no one else has, vast experience etc and justify charging more than the competition because of that So has any member of the WSG done that, justifying charging $X more than eg: the design agency down the road which makes webpages by putting sliced photoshop images into tables by saying something along the lines of I design to Web Standards and can show my product validates against these standards, this is like an industrial business getting ISO Quality certification for their processes and means my product/service satisfies web industry standards for quality of code, can other companies with proposals for your project do the same ? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more?
www.MACCAWS.org Thats a good reason to produce standards compliant websites. I recently had one job which the coding was easy, the actual complexity of the detail which was so high it was just a to big a job for me to do :( But the person who offered me the job, saw my site and emailed me. What was the significant factor, have you seen my site? www.t94xr.net.nz Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Safe Web colors
Greetings Useing a safe web colors, is it a standard? is it a Must? No, as most users have full high color resolutions. But if your website is primarily visiited by computers that cant reach high color levels, then yeah. but otherwise its accessability shoshing over with design issues. the web safe color scheme is a good idea, pratical in some situations. I've never bothered with it. Camz www.t94xr.net.nz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Safe Web colors
no its ok - but Web Safe colors is for users who cant see higher 256colors. - Original Message - From: Jad Madi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Safe Web colors please check http://www.easyhttp.com/design/site I'v used alot of colors might be hmm bright is it considered to be out of accessability ? On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 00:12:39 +1200, t94xr.net.nz webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Useing a safe web colors, is it a standard? is it a Must? No, as most users have full high color resolutions. But if your website is primarily visiited by computers that cant reach high color levels, then yeah. but otherwise its accessability shoshing over with design issues. the web safe color scheme is a good idea, pratical in some situations. I've never bothered with it. Camz www.t94xr.net.nz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash
http://www.danvine.com/iecapture/ does this help? Camz - Original Message - From: Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:06 PM Subject: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash Hi I was just testing http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on the standalone windows versions of Internet explorer that you can get from http://www.quirksmode.org/browsers/multipleie.html , all worked fine except IE4 which froze immediately after displaying the page and took up 100% of cpu time until i killed its process Does anyone have a real Win IE4 they could test http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on to see if it still crashes ? thanks -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 403 8000 27 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash
:O lmfao email the guy apologising just incase! :D!! Hes pretty sweet... - Original Message - From: Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash Oh dear ... now his IEcapture page isnt responding for newly entered pages to test ... hope I didnt do anything to it. t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: http://www.danvine.com/iecapture/ does this help? Camz - Original Message - From: Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:06 PM Subject: [WSG] Page causes win IE4 to crash Hi I was just testing http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on the standalone windows versions of Internet explorer that you can get from http://www.quirksmode.org/browsers/multipleie.html , all worked fine except IE4 which froze immediately after displaying the page and took up 100% of cpu time until i killed its process Does anyone have a real Win IE4 they could test http://www.bhatt.id.au/test.php on to see if it still crashes ? thanks -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 403 8000 27 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 403 8000 27 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] accessibility feedback
Andreas Boehmer wrote: Hi guys,I was wondering whether you could give me some feedback on a website we havecreated: http://www.jet.org.au.We have tried to make it as accessible as possible, but better than anyBobby or W3C validation is probably going through your critique. We arestill working on improving it, but please feel free to be tough critics! Nice layout Login box perfectly placed - rendering time is ofvery goodstandards ( im on a 28k connection ha! fkd 56k modem) Would be good if there was a different random quote from a different profession, different image and quote with "" and a name giving a bit of their story on how they got the job thru your website. Gives the impression that you've actually reached those numbers you claim to have. The general site design is well highly perfected, the designer has alot of talent. Camz
Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.
If this doesn't convince a web professional to take a serious look at these standards nothing will. and MACCAWS ( www.MACCAWS.org ) doesnt do this? Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.
I found it quite a good read... - Original Message - From: Mordechai Peller To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards. t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: If this doesn't convince a web professional to take a serious look at these standards nothing will. and MACCAWS ( www.MACCAWS.org ) doesnt do this? Not the same way. maccaws' argument is an intellectual argument, while Robinson's is an emotional one. While maccaws' the better argument, in this generation of 30 second attention spans (if that long), Robinson's has a better chance of working.Ultimately the best argument is the result of a combination of both.
Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards.
their site is what you call a white paper its like a government report but on the net. Governments around the world have read it. Its fairly simple ot navigate. - Original Message - From: Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards. I don't know I've never read it. You go to Maccaws.org and you have to go off to another link to read anything useful. Like the old days of the portals. No one had any content, only links to more sites that are themselves just pages of more links. I can't be bothered going from link to link to link to link to find something worth reading. If a poster cant be bothered putting a link to actual content, why should I have to bother? Why would I have to hunt out what on earth Maccaws.org means in order to find out if I want to read it or not. If you see my post about the other article, you'll see in my post why I think it's worth reading. You don't have to go any further to decide if you want to follow it up yourself. Maccaws.org tells me nothing except that it's perhaps a site about South American parrots. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of t94xr.net.nz webmaster Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] At last - here are the dollars in web standards. If this doesn't convince a web professional to take a serious look at these standards nothing will. and MACCAWS ( www.MACCAWS.org ) doesnt do this? Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] SkillSwap
can you get it in New Zealand? Camz - Original Message - From: Mark Harwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] SkillSwap Still kinda Useful info! Phunky * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment
I would recommend you do both - have a standards compliant accessable site, but include an interactive area. A xhtml/css php/mysql"photobook" with the club at certian nights - preferably the peak holiday periods. Give them the best of both worlds. a quick loading site with an area where they can have alot more interactive with the site. A guestbook would be excellent aswell. runnnig off a db accessed both by the interactive area and the xhtml css area. Camz - Original Message - From: Chris Stratford To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:28 PM Subject: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment Hey list,I have something which has been a major topic of discussion between a friend and I.I am currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney Nightclubs (RB Scene)To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and efficent coding to make the website...Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images Animations etc... To get people interested.Really it is a question of - do I make the website for viewer enjoyment, or for the widest viewer spectrum.I am not sure if many of you would be in the same situation, but I can imagine it has come up at least once with us all before.Whether its a news website, or a Hosting companies website...My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont want web standards, they want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures help, and sounds are good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).My website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one which my friend came up with:http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.htmlI think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.It was an eye opener thinking it was as simple as it was.It works in FireFox (exept sound) which is good...But the fact that it looks good with such a simply design.What are your opinions - and can you lend me any assistance.Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather use standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy because there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...I could code that in CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with Tables.Anyway!Let me know what you all think!Cheers!Chris Stratford.
Re: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment
Title: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment I played around with flash - in a wk i made blue box move from one side to another :D!! - Original Message - From: Sean M. Hall AKA Dante To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment "Use to force [of Web Standards]" And if that doesn't work there's always good ol "eennie meenie miney mo" Standards-based sites can be flashy, personally I wouldn't mess around with that "Flash Satay" stuff - I'll take the embed tag, thank you very much (that is assuming I ever use Flash - I probably never will, I wasn't never good with animation).
Re: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment
Title: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment Wooops the link in the other email is actually... http://www.taupowebdesigns.co.nz/ sorry :$ Camz www.t94xr.net.nz
Re: [WSG] Centering a liquid grid of image thumbs and captions
- Original Message - From: Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering a liquid grid of image thumbs and captions I have a 400MHz iMac you can have for $300 - that's less than a software upgrade. I'll even load all the browsers on it for you. Damn. No self contol. Sorry. I'm off for a Bex and a good lie down. Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ On Sunday, June 6, 2004, at 07:18 PM, Bert Doorn wrote: I believe this is heading off-topic, but in a nutshell... Wasting money for me is to buy a system I won't use. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use?
Subject: Re: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use? hmm Topstyle Pro 3.10 - CSS Dreamweaver MX 2004 7.01 - XHTML/PHP Browsers Mozilla 1.7 RC1 IE 6 SP1 Opera 7.50 http://www.danvine.com/icapture/ Safari testing... http://www.danvine.com/iecapture/ IE 6/5.5/5/4, Firefox Opera 7.23 testing. Camz www.t94xr.net.nz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Many Browers in one place
VMware is my second bet or Virtual PC Camz - Original Message - From: Amit Karmakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 12:19 AM Subject: [WSG] Many Browers in one place People, My apologoes in advance if this has been discussed earlier. I know there are sites that let you test your sites on different browsers(browsers, version, OS). Something like http://browsers.evolt.org/, www.danvine.com/iecapture/ but are there softwares (online or offline) that lets users test a site offline for free? Regards, Amit Karmakar www.karmakars.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] IE 7 Promo Images
Title: [WSG] IE 7 Promo Images Im having trouble understanding how you think IE7 would be broken?! I wouldnt abuse IE7 to be broken without it actually being released yet. It might shock you ;) Microsoft have said their putting more time and manpower into IE7 than previous versions... Camz - Original Message - From: Sean M. Hall (Dante) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: [WSG] IE 7 Promo Images Hey guys. Yerba Buena Web Design (my own small design agency, which hasn't even officially opened yet) has created two IE 7 Promo Images. Dean Edwards modified the first one (to fit his layout and design) and made it the official IE 7 Logo. http://www.geocities.com/seanmhall2003/ie7.html I'd like your opinion on these two images (please remember that I'm a beginner at design). I hope you like them :)
Re: [WSG] Standard Hacks?
Hacks are for the Cowbot webdesigner who hasnt done his job right in the first place! ( or for a client thats given too much hassle and not enough cash to make the recode cost effective! ;] ) quite true - but there are hacks that are used to counteract behavours in browsers. Camz www.t94xr.net.nz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] KHTML ??
just in the art of humur? What is Google? Camz :D - Original Message - From: Michael Zeltner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] KHTML ?? Am 10.06.2004 um 15:10 schrieb Jad Madi: guys what is KHTML ? please use google before you post to the list (http://www.google.com/search?q=khtmlie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8). it's the rendering engine from konqueror (http://www.konqueror.org/features/browser.php) which is also used in apples rendering engine WebCore (http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/) and their browser safari (http://www.apple.com/safari/). konqueror had very bad css support but apple cleaned khtml quite well it up so konquerors support is better now as well. at least afaik :) however i haven't tested/tried it in the last few months. regards, michael -- Michael Zeltner Netalley Networks LLP http://www.netalleynetworks.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] KHTML ??
LOL - Original Message - From: Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] KHTML ?? On Friday, June 11, 2004, at 06:56 PM, t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: just in the art of humur? What is Google? Camz :D www.fuckingkhtmlit.com N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] KHTML ??
RE: [WSG] KHTML ??*shakes head* I bet you guys are among the few that find Steve Martin films funny, right? :) Well we do try :D And whos Steve Martin? Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] First table-free site
I'm new to this list and this is my first post. I'm trying to produce my first table-free website - tables have been my very dear friends in the past! Yes, leaving tables behind gratefuly comes with the knowledge that you've reached a level of CSS knowledge and skill to achieve that. I did mine only a couple of months ago. www.t94xr.net.nz Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] new layout/design
Source code and accessibility: - Do you really need all those nested div's? I have it because IE wont center the DIV, so I need the nested DIV to have a text-align:center in there... Have you tried using margin: 0px auto; for cetering divs? Camz www.t94xr.net.nz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Interesting reading
I can't believe y'all are taking this guy seriously enough to even comment - it's pretty obvious to this newbie to css standards, he's trolling - he got you ~ I think enough has been said about his dubious commentaries ~ let it go - please Marie About Certified XHTML Developer - Level 1 I agree, where all equals, but within ourselves - we'll never argue if Eric Meyer happened to look in and have his comment first. Theres a point where you become somewhat superior petty things like that. Camz www.t94xr.net.nz http://freelance.t94xr.net.nz/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] overflow: auto;
Title: Re: [WSG] overflow: auto; Doesnt it?! http://www.danvine.com/icapture/detail/51923.html works ok on iCapture?
Re: [WSG] ALPHA Testers Needed
I agree I think Topstyle is the program you should have a go to try and beat mate. Although its pretty hard, it has a cult following the guys talented And Macromedia was focrced to put heaps of focus on Dreamweavers CSS capabilites cuz TS is the CSS GOD. Its pretty hard to beat. You prepared for that level of programming? Just being honest - but it is hard to move a cult followed application. Camz. - Original Message - From: Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] ALPHA Testers Needed BTW - IF there are any programs out there that do this - please let me know! I think I can do most, if not all of that with TopStyle Stylesweepers. You can save the parameters ton run them again - I have a super-compressed stylesweeper, and an ultra-readable one. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Have stared too long
I wouldnt bother with Netscape 7.1 Valdiation. Rebuild your site somewhat so it works in Opera IE Mozilla 1.6+ Netscape hasnt got long left till it passes on. Camz. www.t94xr.net.nz - Original Message - From: Veine K Vikberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:36 AM Subject: [WSG] Have stared too long and I am probably missing something really simple; This is the page in question: http://nrotc.mainemaritime.edu/goals.html (css in separate file) This Page Is Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict and before jigsaw went down, the CSS was having no errors as well. It also passes as Section 508 (which are the goals for the site) The page looks kind of intended in Netscape 7.1, but no where else (IE, Opera etc) My main problem is the blasted unordered list where the bullets disappear in IE, and the picture going off to the left in Opera. Any help would is appreciated as I have spent the last 5 hours trying to get this one to work. Disclaimer: the css file is huge and probably have a lot of extras that needs to be taken out, but as long as I can't get it to work as intended I am not prone to cut anything out .. TIA ~Veine Veine K Vikberg * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XHTML Transitional - Strict
Title: XHTML Transitional -> Strict Strict isnt much different from Trrans no a target="_blank" theres a _javascript_ replacement. other than theres a cuopkle of things but W3C will tell you about them. Simple. Camz www.t94xr.net.nz - Original Message - From: Jamie Mason To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:00 PM Subject: [WSG] XHTML Transitional - Strict Hello all, I was hoping one of you could tell me, or know any url's that would be helpful on moving from XHTML Transitional to Strict. What are the main things to look out for when moving over? What is allowed in Transitional that has to be removed for strict? Thanks a lot, Jamie Mason: Design T: (01423) 700849
Re: [WSG] Recommended Books
HTML XHTML - The Definitive Guide 5th Edition (O'Reilly-2002) O'Reilly Cascading Style Sheets The Definitive Guide New Riders - Speed Up Your Site- 1st Ed 2003 [CHM] Website Analysis Reporting Generally anything I mean ANYTHING of Eric Meyers Camz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Mac testers please
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to test my site using IE for Mac 5+ and Safari http://www.v2.shockmedia.com.au Thanks. Damn, forget the rest of the site - put her as the only thing on the page and you'll have everyone still agreeing its a great site. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Unsubscribe
He has a good valid point. - Original Message - From: Paulo Rodrigo Teixeira To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 3:14 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [WSG] Unsubscribe Yahoo! Mail - Participe da pesquisa global sobre o Yahoo! Mail. Clique aqui!
Re: [WSG] Free presentation for Sydney WSG members and their bosses
I hate asking this :P Can you setup a couple of nights over here in NZ and do it aswell I know plenty of people who would love to go see it. Camz (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ Taupo NZ XHTML CSS Webdevelper (PHP Newbie) - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Web Standards Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:59 AM Subject: [WSG] Free presentation for Sydney WSG members and their bosses As a preview to WE04, Web Essentials and the Web Standards Group will be hosting a free briefing in Sydney for executives and decision makers, addressing the business issues associated with web standards and accessibility. In other words, we want you to bring your bosses along for a short presentation - so we can help persuade them of the importance of web standards. Roger Hudson (Web Usability) and John Allsopp (Westciv) will cover the core aspects of web development best practice from the perspective of the decision maker. Roger, John, Peter Ottery (F2) and others will then be available for questions - over a drink and a bite to eat. We will also be giving away 1 pass to the Web Essentials conference, 3 copies of Style Master and more... anything to get your boss to come :) Cost: Free Date: Thursday July 1, 2004 Time: 6:00pm for 6.30pm start (refreshments supplied) Venue: Red Square. 49 Greek Street Glebe 2037 Australia RSVP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] More: http://www.we04.com/briefing.cfm Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] OT - Standards Compliant Websites Directory
HELL YEAH!!! - Original Message - From: Razvan Pop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: [WSG] OT - Standards Compliant Websites Directory Hello. I've started to build a Standards Compliant Websites Directory. A Web Directory where only Valid W3C sites will be accepted. What do you think? Should I continue? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 508??
Sure, if you explain what on earth you're talking about. -- tim 508 is this, http://www.contentquality.com/mynewtester/cynthia.exe?rptmode=-1runcr=1url1=http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ Conformance to web accessability standards produced by the W3C. Basically those ponts there tell you wats required for 508 compliance. Its a first and simple step. t94xr http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 508??
Sure, if you explain what on earth you're talking about. -- tim 508 is this, http://www.contentquality.com/mynewtester/cynthia.exe?rptmode=-1runcr=1url1=http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ Conformance to web accessability standards produced by the W3C. Basically those ponts there tell you wats required for 508 compliance. Its a first and simple step. t94xr http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] What do browsers download?
this may sound like a stupid answer but wouldnt it be like an html page of somesort. t94xr http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] webstandards.org.nz - taken!! :O
Well here was just about to register webstandards.org.nz with my domain agency to my suprise it was taken!! http://www.webstandards.org.nz/ Moral: Always check to see if the URL is valid in a browser, before you try and register it! ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant webdesigner. Taupo, NZ. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS
thats actually very good :) Thanks :) ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. - Original Message - From: Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 12:50 AM Subject: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS I havent tried this, but it sounds interesting http://www.phoenity.com/newtedge/hide_email_spambots/ -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS
- Original Message - From: Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use the following javascript. It works well for me. Ted - the downside beign they dont use a JS enabled browser? They cant contact you. Better is a PHP Contact Form John Wyles has one - a very good one indeed. ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?
I found this expandable CSS div with JS when i was working at ForumImages. http://www.forumimages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324highlight=FICodeExpand ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Does anybody know an expandable vertical css/js menu based on uls?
I found this expandable CSS div with JS when i was working at ForumImages. http://www.forumimages.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324highlight=FICodeExpand ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS based redesign of http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/
/* @import url(template.css); */ /* @import url(article-tools.css); */ /* @import url(article-list.css); */ /* @import url(store.css); */ /* @import url(TOC.css); */ OMG theres organisational skills but then theres organisational skills. imports are now generally used for IE css bug fixes. but thats a bit overboard. _ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://freelance.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant Webdesigner. Taupo, NZ. Mob: 021 050-7304 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS based redesign of http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/
imports are now generally used for IE css bug fixes. but thats a bit overboard. Could you qualify this statement please? @import is used to import stylesheets. We don't want to give members who might be new to CSS the wrong idea here. thats one valid point. but its a trend to put IE CSS fixes and hacks in a file imported by IE !--[if IE]-- Conditional comments have slowly been the new IE import. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Brisbane July Meeting - Report
From: Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] A very interesting and detailed open forum followed - for those who were unable to attend, you *really* missed something! Next meeting should be Wed September 8 - put it in your diary now! :) And what do we do if we are in New Zealand? Can you have a meeting here and let us join? ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re:
Yes i agree highly - im glad you brought tho my attention. We should discuss this to the highest level of WSG discussion. _Cameron W (aka t94xr)http://freelance.t94xr.net.nz/XHTML CSS Compliant Webdesigner.Taupo, NZ.Mob: 021 050-7304 - Original Message - From: Russ To: Wsg Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: [WSG] Re: PredatorsPassword:
Re: [WSG] After CSS?
Well done. Sadly there are alot of webdesigners unlike you who are still in the Photoshop phase and dont seem to be leaving it anytime soon. I would say if you know all that, learn how to setup a domain, and get yourself up. Then you can play at ur hearts content. If you love CSS - use Topstyle - it enters you into another kind of phase. Dreamweaver MX 2004 for your XHTML coding and PHP coding. Localhost (convert your computer into a makeshift HTTP server and run ur sites with PHP. Small HTTP Server is recommended for a small one. ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
