The flexibility of the title attribute (as opposed to the title element) can
be seen in the ever-exciting W3 technical reports. Two places that are
always a great read, and full of surprises are the "List of attributes" [1]
and "List of elements" [2].
The list of attributes shows the title and has
THREAD CLOSED
The mail list does not cover:
"Discussion of content management/web publishing system issues beyond those
directly involved with Web Standards (there is a CMS list for that purpose,
Log in and go to Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions and set
your preferences to "Ful
> I have played with margins, padding, text align and text-indent. I even
> removed the float on the container div and the problem persists.
>
> Has anyone encountered this before?
A link to online sample of this problem, stripped back to just the problem
area, and a link to the stripped back css
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
Reasons for closing: The "CSS driven" thread has gone on far too long and
has been dangerously close to flame-wars on several occasions. Time to move
on please.
Please do not reply to this post or continue this thread. If you have a
comment or an issue with the closing of thi
Hi all,
Generally speaking, the WSG list has a great vibe - with members helping
each other and offering advice. However, I have been concerned with a recent
trend on list. There seems to be an element of lecturing, chest beating and
heavy-handed criticism.
Can I ask all members to think of a few
Hey Jose,
It seems that you are referring to the elements within the
#contentright ?
I don¹t have IE in front of me but there is a known "whitespace bug" to do
with IE and list items.
There are a range of methods that can be used to fix it including:
1. floating the
2. setting the element t
> What makes more sense from the accessibility point of view?
> What makes more sense from the semantic point of view?
>
> Or is this just a personal choice and has absolutely no effect
> whatsoever on the end result? Am I over analysing this to death?
>
I wrote a long post on this subject a whi
> What is the definition of a CSS driven design ?
You could say that a css-driven site is one that has all or the majority of
presentation removed from the markup and placed in CSS files.
Having said this, I googled the word driven for a definition and found that
it also meant "mobs goaded by bli
> okay, hi everyone: a short question, i intend it to be, at least.
> is "i" (italic) deprecated in xhtml? and even better, could someone
> point me to a w3c page that talks about what is deprecated in xhtml?
> and, second part of that, why does the validator validate it if it is
> deprecated.
ADMIN
THREAD CLOSED
AGAIN!
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
***
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
Please do not reply to this thread on list.
If you wish to answer the original question, please do so offlist.
Reason for closure: This thread has moved a long way from the original
question. It has now moved into the area of strongly held personal opinions.
This is just one
>From the W3C
The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Working Group has released
Working Drafts of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 [1] and HTML
Techniques for WCAG 2.0 [2] and a First Public Working Draft of
Understanding WCAG 2.0 [3]. Following WCAG makes Web content more acc
Tonight's WSG meeting in Sydney was a huge success with 55 people attending.
A huge thanks to Maxine Sherrin and Janet Parker for their presentations -
very informative!
The podcasts and presentation slides will be available soon.
Some Flickr photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/russweakley/sets/
Hi Isabel,
Inline elements [1] and anonymous inline boxes [2] cannot be placed directly
inside the body, form or blockquote elements when using a strict Doctype.
They must be wrapped in a block level element.
However, if a Transitional Doctype is used, then inline elements and
anonymous inline bo
Hi Ted,
Here is an example:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/liquid-layouts/background.htm
HTH
Russ
> Sounds simple enough? However, I'd like the columns to be flexible. So, my
> first thought was to create two background images, one for the right and one
> for the left and apply them
> 1) How do you signal that one is available? I'd like to use text (as
> opposed to an icon) but who is going to know what "zoom layout" means?
> Perhaps "low-vision layout" or "low-vision version" work better?
The new Amnesty International Australia site uses a zoom layout option. The
icon can be
ADMIN
Please remember that these sorts of request should not be sent out the
entire list, they should be sent to info@webboy.net
Sending messages of this sort out to the list is akin to standing up in the
middle of an opera and telling the entire audience that you need to go to
the toilet.
:)
Ru
I've been "completely off" on many occasions. However, I'd be wary of any
definitive statement, especially in the area of accessibility. While we all
crave right and wrong answers, there are often many shades of gray. :)
While blind users are not the only target audience for title attributes,
the
> - A website talking about "Amaya"
> - Download "Amaya"
> - The "Amaya" Forum
> - My aunty "Amaya"
So, without verbs, it could still be more descriptive with slight tweaks and
without using verbs
- Download the "Amaya Software"
- The "Amaya Forum"
- My "Aunty Amaya"
Then again, you could choose
There is a simply option:
1. add a link to a generic css file:
2. inside this file, import any css file you need:
@import "advanced.css";
The advantages are:
1. by using two media types in first link you will stop NN4 from following
the link and (in specific NN4 cases) from crashing on the @imp
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
See previous admin post
Russ
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
***
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
It seems some people forgot to read the last admin post:
"If you have any questions, suggestions or comments about this, please DO
NOT send them to the list. Instead, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] We do not want to
clog the list with moral or ethical debates."
Again, this is a we
ADMIN
OK, this is the first time this has happened on the WSG mail list as far as
I know.
We should all be aware that we have a wide range of WSG members from
different age groups, ethnic and religious backgrounds - all of whom are
very welcome on the list.
For this reason, you should warn membe
Dunno about that but I know of two silly alternatives:
A remote control device done in CSS:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/remote/remote-new.htm
An IPod emulator:
http://www.podsites.com/emulator-result.cfm
:)
Russ
> Does anyone remember on this list an example someone put together o
THREAD CLOSED
The reason for the closure of this thread is that while it had been
interesting and informative, it has definitely moved away from open
discussion into strongly held views and lines of demarcation.
Please do not reply to this thread or comment on the thread closure to the
list. If y
One of the best fully compliant sites I have seen is:
http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbsite/
There is a detailed tutorial here:
http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail51.html
:)
Russ
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry to ask a silly question, but is there a really good 'Fully Compliant'
> sample site I could se
> Can anyone tell me what changes I need to make to please the other
> browsers?
The most immediate problem is that the container that wraps around the two
floated columns is not showing. This is easily fixed by clearing the floated
items.
More here with explanation and some possible solutions:
h
I may be missing something here, but this looks like a classic case where a
table could actually be more appropriate.
1. It looks like it is columns of content, so a data table could be
appropriate.
2. if you structure the entire thing with spans and style it with CSS, it
has no real meaning for
Full post below for those that could not read it.
Rick has a valid point. The WSG guidelines say (amongst other things):
"Try to use plain text email rather than HTML email where possible."
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Now, can someone help Brendan out of his 4 day rut?
Russ
ADMIN
OK, no need to answer this aspect of the thread any more. The user has been
sent to a happier place - the land of Unsubscribe.
Russ
>> Please don't send this type of message. Hope by mistake this type of message
>> are coming in my id.. I am not related to this message. Please do the
>> n
I agree with Patrick - I'd use background-image instead of list-style-image
as you have far more control over the placement of the image using the
background-position property.
Russ
> Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the
> star as a non-repeating background image
Hope,
This second rule of yours is not being applied as it has less weight than
the first rule.
This is due to specificity. Specificity is used to determine which rules
will be applied to elements if there are conflicts - such as different color
properties being applied to the p element.
Your f
John,
I built and tested a mini demo a while ago and it had no issues that I
recall. Just checked again now in Mac IE5 and there are no issues - though
it uses ID rather than class:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/page-id/index.htm
Russ
> For the record, I believe there's a bug in IE5 f
> Who said it? Who was the company? Do they have any stats available?
I remember the information, as it was a surprising statement, but not the
specifics.
I think the person was Peter Ottery, talking about one of the Fairfax sites.
But before anyone quotes this as fact, it may be best if Peter (a
> What I would like to be able to do is detect to see if the user has the
> proper support
> for web standards and if not redirect them to a version of the site
> using old skool junk HTML
I'd say this approach is not a good idea.
Detecting devices and then running a second version of the site is
> Maybe enough said on this
THREAD CLOSED
There has been a lot of good input here, so thanks for bringing it up and
for the following discussion... I think we can wrap it up now.
A few points to recap:
1. At this stage we will not be going to two or more lists.
2. Please use a subject line t
Thread closed.
If you have a comment about the closing of this thread, please do not post
to the list, email info@webboy.net
Russ
> Dear Labor and IT supporter,
>
> I wanted to draw your attention a new online community called
> "Communicate or Die" at http://www.communicateordie.com.
>
> Our
Paul,
To switch to standards compliant mode, you must have a full and complete
doctype but it does NOT have to be XHTML at all.
Hope could just have easily changed from an incomplete HTML4.01 Transitional
doctype to a complete version. This is not a criticism of Hope, as she may
have had other rea
You have an incomplete doctype which makes browsers go into quicks mode and
then font size inheritance is ignored inside a table.
Russ
> I created a simple webpage containing a few paragraphs, a list and a table
> (for tabular data). For some reason that I cannot for the life of me work
> out, t
Hi all,
This thread has been quite interesting but unfortunately it is totally off
topic.
THREAD CLOSED
Reason:
"The mail list does not cover: Non-Web Standards related issues and support"
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Please do not reply to this thread. If you have a problem
This is less of a standards question and more usability.
There may be some users that think that the link was deactivated (and
therefore not able to be used again) when it has a strike through. However,
the question would be best resolved with user testing rather than hunches.
:)
Russ
> Hi,
>
Hi Chris,
Not sure exactly what you mean but this quick sample may help:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/percentage/
The background images scale based on viewport size.
Only tested on mac Safari...
If this is what you are after, the key is to create large images and use
percentages of t
> .body {font: 100%; }
You probably mean body {...} without the full stop in front
Unless you have a class called .body
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hi
> Does a screen reader interpret the table with scope the same way as a table
> with headers=""?
Hi Ted,
What a timely question!
The short answer is that it depends on the device. In JAWS 5 and 6, for
example, scope is not treated in the same way. It does not tie the header to
the data cell in
Hi Roberto
Welcome to the group.
JavaScript (or EcmaScript) and W3C DOM issues are completely within the
bounds of this discussion list.
All aspects of the standards and their implementation are acceptable
including: HTML, XHTML, XML, CSS, DOM, ECMAScript, MathML, SVG etc...
More in the guideli
Some little errors based on a quick look...
1. Additional unneeded end bracket after "#main_content" ruleset
2. Additional unneeded end bracket after "#horizontal_list li a:active"
ruleset
3. "font: normal 1em/100% "verdana", arial. sans-serif;"
Remove full stop after "arial" and replace with co
One quick solution (and in no way the definitive solution) is to float all
three columns. This means that the cleared content will only affect that
column.
It also gets around another problem you may face. The central content that
is in normal flow will interact with the left and right columns. In
> Any pointers?
Hi Ben,
When interviewed, I was reluctant to express an opinion on this topic for
the very reasons you describe - the XHTML vs HTML argument quickly turns
from facts to opinion - similar to the font size and liquid vs fixed width
debates.
I completely agree with Vlad that Hixies
Completely true - the irony!
The original post is here:
http://www.markme.com/accessibility/archives/007344.cfm
Unfortunately, it too goes off to the same flash file.
Russ
> I can't believe the "WCAG 1.0 Guidelines and Checkpoints for Flash" link
> in section 6 goes to a .swf file. o_O
Try these two:
http://nanobox.chipx86.com/browser_support.php
http://www.quirksmode.org/css/contents.html
Russ
> Can somebody please tell me where I can find a chart that shows what
> browsers, if any, don't support "display: table-row" ?
>
> Thanks.
***
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
This list does not allow swearing - as clearly indicated in the guidelines.
The offender was unsubscribed and blocked.
Please do not reply to this or other obscene messages onlist.
If you have a problem with a post or a closed thread, please email
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - do not t
ADMIN
Please remember a few basic guidelines:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
- Trim replies where possible
- Code samples are fine, but not full pages of html or css code - much
better to link to these items
The last post was a prime candidate for trimming AND linking!
Russ
>
> Greetings
> I'm building new website which will only have a photo gallery, so I
> was thinking how can I accomplish it without breaking standards and
> usability...
> please advise
Try some of these:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/dl-image-gallery.htm
http://css.maxdesign.c
>> Yes it is. It's also quite dumb.
>
> Respect is rarely dumb. This is no exeption. When the defaults are
> honored, everyone who cares can be a winner.
WARNING
Please do not let this discussion sink any further or the thread will be
closed.
The font size discussion is interesting and releva
> I think the best bet would be to use id and headers
Grant, I agree totally. In my experience, while scope is easier to use for
developers, as it requires far less individual coding, it is far less
supported than id and header.
Scope also has another major downside. It cannot tie together multip
THREAD CLOSED
Please reply to Leigh off-list. This is definitely off-topic - has nothing
to do with web standards.
If you have a problem with the closing of this thread, please do not post to
the list. Instead, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks
Russ
> Hi all
>
> what are the pro's and cons of o
As was hinted at by Kim, this is off topic.
THREAD CLOSED
The mail list does not cover
- Non-Web Standards related issues and support
- Detailed software support such as using a browser, installing a server,
installing any tools etc.
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
If you have a
There are a range of methods of removing whitespace in IE:
1. border-bottom
li { border-bottom: ?; }
2. display: inline - works well if the a element is set to display: block:
li { display: inline; }
3. float
li { float: right; }
li { float: left; }
4. vertical align
li a { vertical-align: bot
For those interested, a new web standards book has just hit the shelves:
Web Standards Design Guide
by Kevin Ruse
KEY FEATURES:
* Provides a comprehensive, easy-to-read guide to using the essential Web
standards, including XML, CSS, Accessibility, xForms, and xLink
* Explains where standards come
The Sydney Web Standards meeting went well tonight with about 33 people
present.
Richard Czeiger stepped in at the last minute to talk as John Allsopp was
indisposed.
It was one of Richards first ever presentations, and he handled himself
exceptionally well under some heavy crossfire from Sydney
Ignore.
I misread your 10px as 10%
Russ = Idiot
> Well, for a start, when added together the amounts equal more than 100%
> which means they will not fit within the browser window - which is 100%. :)
>
> 10 + 45 + 45 + 10 = 110
>
> Also, remember that making the amount exactly 100% is dangero
> In my email, I was originally going to have a third option of floating both
> columns, but when I tested it in Safari the columns sat on top of one
> another instead of side-by-side. What is wrong with my CSS? This is what I
> tried:
Well, for a start, when added together the amounts equal more
The biggest drawback of absolute positioning is that it is removed from the
normal flow of the document. This means that any other content below will
ignore the absolutely positioned content. For example, a footer may slide up
under and be obscured by two absolutely positioned containers.
Can I su
Yes, Neerav,
There will be a WE05 in Sydney. It will be about twice as full on as last
year, as we have around 5-6 speakers. More importantly:
1. There will be a strong representation of female speakers (something sadly
missing from last years event)
2. The event will be split into streams, so w
I guess it is up to the WSG members to think about.
The jobs section is definitely NOT for people advertising themselves as
available - it is for "positions vacant".
I do not think it is relevant to post jobs related to SELLING web services,
but it is definitely relevant for anything related to D
I completely agree Alan. This is an international list. I am hoping to see a
thriving list of jobs soon with all sorts of positions and countries.
The ball is (almost) in your court. Well, it will be very soon when Peter
gets another bit of time to set it up for all users. Until then, send any
rel
How about correct rendering of the box model?
The box model is rendered correctly when IE6 is in standard-compliant mode
but renders incorrectly in quirks mode.
Unfortunately, even in standards-compliant mode, IE5 and IE5.5 will render
the box model incorrectly.
Russ
> Might you be kind enough
Richard, these are all good questions. The best thing to do as actually
observe real people (with disabilities) interacting with sites.
I have watched blind users and users with severe vision impairment who
become frustrated and leave sites very quickly. They are more likely to
struggle on if the
My apologies for not explaining the thread closure earlier.
I closed the thread due to the aggressive nature of the last post, not due
to the topic of javascript. My concern was that the post could have lead to
a possible flame war and this is definitely something we do not want to see
on this lis
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
What about users who rely on keyboards but have sight (users with some form
of motor skill or mobility deficiency)?
Visible skip menus can be very important for these users.
A visible skip link allows them to jump over content or navigation
(depending on how the site is set up) and possibly avoid
OK, you have an image set in the div as a background, but you want it to
act, to all intents, like a link.
The first thing to do is make the link area the same size as the background
image. This is achieved by converting the element to a block (display:
block) and then giving it a width and heigh
There are so many ways to do this but I would not use a spacer gif. One way
you could go is:
HTML
http://mysite.com";>My Site
CSS
#masthead { width: 750px; height: 100px; background: blah... }
#masthead a { display: block; width: 750px; height: 100px; }
#masthead span { position: absolute; left
Can I just add here that Scott Parsons is definitely not the person who's
email address was the problem - although his email post hit the list in
spectacular fashion it was not his fault in any way.
And in case you are wondering who suggested shutting down the whole mail
server... You guessed it,
Apologies all.
The mail server has been rebooted, lets see how we go.
Thanks for your patience
Russ
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to th
Hi Ted,
All personal opinion, but the bullet as background image has a lot of
advantages:
- You have far more control over the positioning of the bullet, as you can
set it in any position using a range of units (pixel, ems, percents. You can
even position the bullets under the list items if desire
> Do you object to a column being a fixed width? I understand your objection
> to a fixed width overall layout, but why object to a column being fixed
> width?
>
> As a side issue to that, if you have a 2 or 3 column layout with background
> colours and all heights to be equal, and you do not know
There are two issues to do with abbreviations that have come up on list
today:
1. the distinction between the abbr element and the abbr attribute
2. the difference between abbreviations and acronyms
So, I thought I'd open the can of worms that Patrick mentioned earlier
today
-
The official Melbourne meetings have ground to a halt late last year with
Dez being flat out with a new job and David running off and getting married
(very selfish of him!).
So, could I ask anyone who is interested in taking over as city organisers
to drop me an email. Also, anyone interested in a
Here are some:
Joe Clark's serialised book (covers all three - title, alt and longdesc)
http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter06.html
Writing good ALT text (covers all three - title, alt and longdesc)
http://www.gawds.org/show.php?contentid=28
The alt and title attributes (covers
> I have subsequently used display: none; on the headers. Is this OK, or would
> you recommend your
> suggestion as being more standards-based?
display: none has known issues for screen readers:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/
The absolute method, which I have since heard referred to as "
> 2. I have used a modification of one of Russ' tutorials for the #header and
> #subnav - to float the
> menu elements left and right. Is there a cleaner way to achieve this other
> than to apply a class to
> *every* tag?
The most powerful way to achieve this (but not supported by IE) would be to
>
> Latest News
>
> News Item One
> 20/10/05
> Introduction goes here...
> News Item Two
> 20/10/05
> Introduction goes here...
>
>
>
If you were going to use to mark this information up (and that would
come down to personal preference) I'd agree with this second option. It
would be better
> I hope this is not off topic. If it is, please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I am starting to get very fustrated. When I try to use the W3C validator for
> an HTML file, I keep getting the following error.
>
> Line 13, column 53: there is no attribute "alt"
The "a" element does not support the "
Yep, sounds like a clearing problem. One new declaration to your "#footbar"
ruleset should fix the problem:
#footbar
{
clear: both; /* clears floated items above */
height: 30px;
background: url(pics/slick_blackbar.png);
border-bottom: 1px #fff solid;
border-top: 1px #fff solid
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
This list is about web standards issues/information sharing/help. It is not
design issues or opinions. There are other lists for that.
If you have a problem with the closing of this thread, please do not reply
to this post, email info@webboy.net to express your views.
Thank
Please do not reply to this post.
Job opportunity: Sydney Australia - Optus
--
POSITION DESCRIPTION
--
3 month contract with possible extension available. Reporting to the
Senior Designer, the Web Designer will be joining the Wireles
> Also, does anyone know of a good web site that details clearly and concisely
> all the main things you should do to make a web site accessible?
The best source is the WAI guidelines. Sites must comply with priority 1,
should comply with priority 2 and may comply with priority 3:
http://www.w3.or
Hi Levi,
Looks stable in Safari 1.2.4 and Mac/Firefox but the news inner containers
are missing their backgrounds in Mac/IE5.2.8. I can send screenshots offlist
if needed.
The other comments are accessibility ones so take them as you wish - they
may not be part of the mission for this site's audi
Hi Scott,
An inline element can have margin and padding applied to it but only left
and right margin/padding will affect other elements. Top and bottom margin
and padding will be ignored.
"Margin properties specify the width of the margin area of a box. The
'margin' shorthand property sets the mar
Here is a possible cause and solution to your problem...
Quirky Percentages in IE6's Visual Formatting Model:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/percentages.html
Russ
> Hello everyone!
> As my first post I'd like to ask you something technical.
>
> I've got a simple div element with
> What's more "in-spec":
>
>
> Or
>
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2.2
By default, SGML requires that all attribute values be delimited using
either double quotation marks (ASCII decimal 34) or single quotation marks
(ASCII decimal 39). Single quote marks can be included wi
There are a wide range of variations. Each variation will allow you to
target different browsers. Here are some:
@import url(styles.css) not all;
@import url(styles.css) all;
@import url(styles.css) All;
@import "null?\"\{";
@import "styles.css";
@import "null?\"\}";
@import'styles.css';
@import"s
Regardless of what we say in real life or in private emails, swearing on
this list is completely unacceptable, as has been mentioned many times - as
well as being clearly stated in our guidelines.
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
The list administrators reserve the right to unsubs
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
> If it comes up again I'll give that a shot, had to give up and put
> them in tables - the powers that be aren't gonna pay for hours of...
Please do not reply to this post
Russ
**
The discussion list for http://webstand
This Gmail Thread is now closed
Please do not respond to this thread
Reason: it has moved from standards discussion (on the relevance of
accessibility) into arguments and personal stances.
If you have issues with its closure, please contact info@webboy.net offlist
Thanks
Russ
**
> Basically, my purpose for sending this is to acquire
> more understanding of the purpose of the DTD. Is it
> there to set the rendering mode, or is it, as this
> support person purports, simply a formality?
Go to the source - W3C
Why specify a doctype? Because it defines which version of (X)HT
THREAD CLOSED
Thanks, Paul, for the very detailed information.
However, as Richard has said, all opinions will have now been covered. The
thread has run a very long and winding course.
So, no more on this thread please!
Thanks
Russ
> great comments thus far, but i think we're getting into th
> I agree wholeheartedly, one of my pet peeves as well, especially after
> battling it through the early days of desktop publishing in the 80s. This
> isn't a matter of grammar or standards, it's a matter of correct use of
> punctuation.
James, I think you and Chris are missing Lachlan's point.
> Something which no one has mentioned is the possible accessibility
> benefits of the extra spacing following the period. My thoughts are that
> the extra spacing will more easily distinguish the sentence for all, but
> particularly those with cognitive disabilities
>
> Unfortunately, I can't fin
101 - 200 of 432 matches
Mail list logo
