Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Chris,

Why not make the printable form a word doc or pdf for them to download, rather 
than coding it into the page as a form or image?

That way you wont confuse the users and you have the option of still making the 
pdf form interactive.

If that's not possible then I would use an image for the check boxes with clear 
instructions that the page is there for printing. 

Darren Lovelock 
MunkyOnline.com

On 12 Sep 2011, at 05:57, Chris Vickery chris.vick...@oaic.gov.au wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 We’ve got some flat forms on our site, ie. They are not interactive forms, 
 and have no submit button. They are indicating that it’s a check list that 
 can be ticked once the page is printed.
 
  
 
 Someone suggested putting in regular check boxes and having no submit button, 
 but wouldn’t that make it confusing from both and accessibility and usability 
 point of view?
 
 At the same time using a graphical or styled element with Alt tag seems messy 
 and cringe worthy as a work around.
 
  
 
 I’ve got my own ideas, but what does everyone think is best practice in this 
 case?
 
  
 
 Regards,
 Chris
 
 
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RE: [WSG] Colour Schemes for Accessibility

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Carl,
 
I recommend trying out the Color Contrast Analyser
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrast-analyser.html
 
Kind regards,
 
Darren Lovelock
MunkyOnline Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.com/ www.munkyonline.com
+44 (0) 208 816 8893
 
Web Design Services: 
Brochure-style, Content Managed, E-commerce.
Internet Marketing: 
Search Engine Optimisation, Link Building, Copywriting. 
 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Carl Heaton
Sent: 09 May 2011 16:51
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Seth
Subject: [WSG] Colour Schemes for Accessibility


Dear WSG, 

I am currently consulting for the Social Development Division for ESCAP
United Nations and my team and I are re-making http://www.unescap.org/sdd/

 http://www.unescap.org/sdd/ The question I have is that has anyone got
any tried and tested colour schemes that dyslexic and colour blind users
prefer? I have done my homework and see lots of contrasts that give the best
results but no actual colour codes.

Love to hear your ideas.

Kind regards,


C

-- 
Carl Heaton
Managing Director and Instructor
www.WebCoursesBangkok.com


  http://www.webcoursesbangkok.com/wp-content/themes/wcb/images/logo.png 


Training Centre
253 Building 18th Floor, 
Sukhumvit 21
Asoke 
Bangkok
10110


Mobile: 0867824118
Skype: carl68
Twitter: @webcoursesbkk


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Re: [WSG] spam in the site...

[Darren Lovelock]

If you need a new volunteer to manage the resources section, I'd be happy to do 
it.

Darren Lovelock
MunkyOnline.com

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Dec 2010, at 01:50, Lea de Groot w...@elysiansystems.com wrote:

 On 13/12/10 9:51 AM, Andrew Harris wrote:
 A query about the http://webstandardsgroup.org/ site.
 
 Yikes! Well spotted!
 I've temporarily unpublished the page while we figure out what the problem is.
 (Sorry everyone - you don't get to see the spam when you click through!)
 Thanks for letting us know
 Ah, the joys of volunteer run websites :(
 
 warmly,
 Lea
 -- 
 Lea de Groot
 WSG Core Member
 
 
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RE: [WSG] lost my web projects

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Martin,
 
I'm not sure if the program is accessible but this program is good at
recovering files (and it's free) - http://www.piriform.com/recuva
 
Although if you reinstalled your operating system over the same drive you
are trying to recover files from then I doubt they can be recovered now. I
would replace the drive if you are still using the faulty drive as it is
likely that the drive will fail again very soon and stop working completely.
Try running recuva on the drive anyway - if there's anything there still it
will find it.
 
If you are using a different drive now in your computer but still have the
old drive, then you need to connect it to your computer as a secondary
drive.
 
The easiest way to do this is using an external usb drive enclosure -
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_12?url=search-alias%3Daps
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_12?url=search-alias%3Dapsfield-ke
ywords=hard+drive+enclosurex=0y=0sprefix=hard+drive+e
field-keywords=hard+drive+enclosurex=0y=0sprefix=hard+drive+e
 
Put the faulty drive in the enclosure, boot up the PC with the enclosure
attached via USB and it will show up in my computer as removable storage.
 
Use recuva to scan the USB drive and see what files it finds :)
 
Hope this helps.
 
Darren Lovelock
MunkyOnline Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.com/ www.munkyonline.com
+44 (0) 208 816 8893
 
Web Design Services: 
Brochure-style, Content Managed, E-commerce.
Internet Marketing: 
Search Engine Optimisation, Link Building, Copywriting. 
 
 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
Sent: 03 March 2010 19:59
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] lost my web projects


hi.
please read the message below.
lost my web projects.
corrupted hard disk crash with my toshiba.
had to set it back to factory default.
so got a external hard disk now.
but my question is:
is there any accessible recovery software where i could get my web projects,
and other data back, like web projects, important documents, music. etc.
cheers Marvin.
 
Hi.
okay.
i am a blind computing student.
i use the jaws for windows screen reader software.
from http://www.freedomscientific.com
mhtml:{4DCB9095-E5FA-4455-A328-2B372E08F438}mid://0017/!x-usc:http://ww
w.freedomscientific.com/ 
well this is what i did on febuary 4.
i was uninstalling sql server, as was having a problem.
as i am doing a star trek application using visual web developer and sql
server.
a blind friend programmer who was helping me out.
said i needed to stop all administrator services.
so had accidently turned off system restore, turned it back on.
i have a toshiba satellite a300 psagra 48056630Q model.
now, selected my s c: drive.
and not the toshiba hidden volume.
selected a time back the previous day.
clicked next, and system restore.
jaws speaks all text on the screen and i use the keyboard to navigate.
using windows vista home premium.
2 gb ram, 2.1 ghz processor, 250 gb hard disk, ati radium card, real tech
audio manager, jaws 11.0.756u.
Now heard a clunk, clunk sound.
when i rebooted the machine.
and the next day my dad read what was on screen.
said the hard disk particion corrupted.
so had to reset it back to factory default.
did not have a external hard disk.
i do now.
but have lost all my important documents, college projects, contacts,music,
etc.
so is there any way to get the data back.
have been installing and uninstalling software.
i had the music in the music folder under Marvin.
and my main folder was called c:\Docs.
where i had a lot of folders, Marvins Web Site, Tafe, etc.
current articles, Star Trek Project, Test Site for visual web developer.
Mingw, a c++ application.
I cannot be with out my laptop.
Hoping to start online learning, also seeking employment and looking for
employment.
This is my main machine for information, projects, and entertainment.
Like listening to sport on radio stations on the net, getting information,
listening to pod casts about blindness,adaptive technology, etc.
So if you can help me out.
would like to do it my self if possible.
So any software.
tried 2 or 3, demo versions, but not either accessible.
Or the trial version would let me preview files, but not recover, unless i
purchased the full version.
I do not have a credit card.
So can you help me.
cannot be without my machine.
Was working on updating a few student web projects.
Lost Them all.
Or because i have installed, uninstalled, and written to the hard disk.
is it gone forever?
Marvin.
ps: Have got a external hard disk now and do regular backups.
I live in Devonport, Tasmania.

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RE: [WSG] Standards based Drupal WYSIWYG Editor

[Darren Lovelock]

I used FCKeditor on a clients site - http://www.gablemarine.com/

When installed with the html purifier filter my client can create content
that is entirely XHTML strict http://drupal.org/project/htmlpurifier - it
helped a lot with sorting Word code too.

Only thing is the client managed to build a bit of a mess on the project
page when I gave him access to tables lol - won't be doing that with the
next client!

It was a bit of a pain to configure though as it uses its own caching system
but it does a great job now it's up and running. 

Darren Lovelock
MunkyOnline Web Design
www.munkyonline.com
+44 (0) 208 816 8893
 
Web Design Services: 
Brochure-style, Content Managed, E-commerce.
Internet Marketing: 
Search Engine Optimisation, Link Building, Copywriting. 
  

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Dave Lane
Sent: 26 February 2010 19:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards based Drupal WYSIWYG Editor

We make extensive use of TinyMCE with Drupal (we're a Drupal development
shop) - it's not perfect, but it does offer a lot of flexibility regarding
acceptable tags, and we've been able to get it to provide XHTML compliant
code. Combined with filters like Tidy, it's possible to ensure that you
don't get non-compliant code being entered.

rantThe biggest issue is the complexity of cleaning up cut-pasted content
from MS Word... *that's* a problem. TinyMCE offers a Paste from Word
function which strips most of the rubbish from Word-produced content, but
it's a pain to use... or people assume that anything coming from MS Word is
clearly well suited for the web... We spend a lot of time trying to
discourage people from using Word for authoring web content, because it's a
very poor tool for doing so, but we have a hard time suggesting a palatable
alternative (people seem to find the idea of composing content in the actual
TinyMCE interface totally absurd, which doesn't make much sense to
me...)./rant

Regards,

Dave

On 27/02/10 07:32, Kepler Gelotte wrote:
 Just spent a day with FCKEditor only to find that there appears to be
 no way to have site CSS appear in the Style dropdown, w/o transforming
 the
 CSS into XML.

 That is not entirely accurate. The fckstyles.xml tells the editor which
 styles the user can apply and how to apply them. The actual CSS definition
 is defined in your CSS file and can be modified without updating the
 fckstyles.xml again.

 Best regards,

 Kepler Gelotte
 Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
 www.neighborwebmaster.com
 phone/fax: (732) 302-0904





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-- 
Dave Lane, Egressive Ltd d...@egressive.com m +64212298147 p +6439633733
http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Only use Open Standards - w3.org, Drupal powers communities - drupal.org
Effusion Group http://effusiongroup.com Software Patents kill innovation


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RE: [WSG] More on understanding html5

[Darren Lovelock]

I dont know html5 but a definition list should be in html4:
 
dl
dt/dt
dd/dd
/dl
 
But then again html5 seems to not need opening or closing tags in a lot of
cases, as it accommodates for a more sloppy way of coding and therefore the
validator may be incorrect.
 
Here it doesn't say to use a definition list, just a legend and an img tag
for adding a caption to an image -
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-html5/
 
This site however says the html5 spec was changed to use the dddt
instead but there are still problems with it -
http://html5doctor.com/dd-details-wrong-again/
 
The article says -  In short, details and figure solve a common design
pattern and provide nice new semantic tags to solve that problem. A figure
could be an image you're referring to in an article or chapter of a book,
and the details element allows the user to interactively show and hide the
details of some piece of information.
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:59
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] More on understanding html5


I am getting a bit bogged down with this new stuff!  
 
I used figure in this case:
 
 
figure 
  img src=graphics/marramgrass.gif alt=marram grass width=116
height=400/
  p style=text-align:center
 Marram Grass
  /p
/figure
 
and the (experimental) validator said that was fine.  Someone pointed out to
me that this is 'wrong' and that the p  should be dd and dt  :
 
figure

 dd

  img src=bubbles-work.jpeg

   alt=Bubbles, sitting in his office chair, works on his

latest project intently.

 /dd

 dtBubbles at work/dt

/figure
So I changed my code to:
figure
dd
 img src=graphics/marramgrass.gif alt=marram
grass /
/dd
dt Marram Grass/dt
   /figure
and the validator says:
 

1.   Error http://validator.w3.org/images/info_icons/error.png Line
78, Column 24: Element dd not allowed as child of element figure in this
context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) 

dd

Contexts in which element
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element dd may
be used: 

After
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element dt or
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element dd
elements inside
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element dl
elements. 

In a
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element
figure element containing no other
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element dd
element children. 

As the last child of a
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-details-element
details element. 

Content model for element
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element
figure: 

In any order, one
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element dd
element, and optionally one
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element dt
element.

2.   Error http://validator.w3.org/images/info_icons/error.png Line
81, Column 24: Element dt not allowed as child of element figure in this
context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) 

dt Marram Grass/dt

Contexts in which element
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element dt may
be used: 

Before
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element dd or
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element dt
elements inside
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element dl
elements. 

In a
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element
figure element containing no other
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element dt
element children. 

As the first child of a
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-details-element
details element. 

Content model for element
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element
figure: 

In any order, one
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element dd
element, and optionally one
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element dt
element.

So, is the validator wrong? And, if so, where do I get guidance as I bumble
along?
Duh?
 
Bob
 



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RE: [WSG] Re: More than one H1?

[Darren Lovelock]

No-one has said there is anything wrong with including a tagline on every
page. 

It is a bad idea however if you make it a H1 and then have that repeat on
every page.

Do you include a second H1 on the page too? No?

When you add a background image to a H1 - you may style it to look like an
image/logo but the source code only shows a heading. If the text in the
heading is still visible to your visitors and you dont use this on multiple
pages (i.e. only on the homepage) then this is fine.

If however you have an img and wrap it with a H1 then that makes no sense
at all no matter what cutlery you are ;)

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of tee
Sent: 19 October 2009 18:50
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: More than one H1?


On Oct 18, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Christian Fagan wrote:

 Agree with pretty much everything below.

 There seems to be no compelling reason to wrap the logo in a H1but 
 there seems to be no compelling reason not to.

Quite a number of my clients have taglines in their logos, and often times,
the tagline is part of the keywords they wanted to target. I see this an
compelling reason to wrap the logo in a h1.

I almost never use logo in inline image but background. If client wants to
place a logo in the footer, then yes, this one uses inline image.

h1Fresh  Green: Fresh ideas for green living/h1

h1 {background: url(logo.png) no-repeat}

Also, for an eCommerce site, the first heading (if H1 is not used in
logo) usually is category name, product name (*), my cart, sitemap.

* Product name is most important compare with category name, name cart,
sitemap, about us, contact usI can serve a different template to use H1
for product name . As for other pages, to my clients, their taglines are
more importance than category names such as outdoor, indoor, gift
ideas, about us.

None of the replies that against using h1 for logo can convince me nor my
clients that having company name and tagline on every page is illegal,
wrong, unsemantical. There are chopsticks users, there are fork and spoon
users and they are hand users. I am a chopstick user and you a fork and
spoon user and who are we to say that the hand user is illegal and wrong? I
eat with my right hand when I visit India and Nepal and when I eat with my
muslim friends. And I use fork and spoon when I am with friends who use only
this combination or visit non- Asian restaurant.


tee



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RE: [WSG] Re: More than one H1?

[Darren Lovelock]

 
 Do you include a second H1 on the page too? No?
A bit arrogant question. Guess you think people who use h1 for logo don't
know anything about semantic markup :)

Not really considering that's the topic of the discussion. The orginal post
is about placing an h1 around the logo and then using an additional H1 in
the page.

As I said in an earlier email. The reason why logos were being used with H1
tags is because they are usually placed at the start of a document and
therefore they could be used to maintain the correct page structure when a
website was using a multi-column layout.

Wrapping a logo with an H1 purely for SEO purposes is not a good practice.
Repeating keyword heavy titles sitewide is also bad SEO.

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of tee
Sent: 19 October 2009 20:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: More than one H1?

On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Darren Lovelock wrote:


 No-one has said there is anything wrong with including a tagline on 
 every page.
My point wasn't arguing that someone said it's wrong to t include a tagline
on every page. It's more about this: in some situations, logo use in the
website, isn't the same as it's used in conventional manner that we see on
print media.

I view that Page title is an important element for a page, considering that
not everyone visits a site always lands in the homepage first, a page within
a website can be treated as a unique and single 'entity', in this sense, I
don't see it inappropriate to have logo and tagline repeated in every page
wrapped in H1, when the page title can do the work. Example:

I see this equally bad
About Us page
Page title: About Us - company name
H1: About Us

as you see this bad idea

Page title: About Us
H1 : logo with tagline


 It is a bad idea however if you make it a H1 and then have that repeat 
 on every page.

It's bad idea because you and I and are standing on different sides of the
hill, and the view you and I see are different.  So there is no bad or
better in an absolute point of view. I use h1 for most important heading
when I consider the logo doesn't deserve H1.

 Do you include a second H1 on the page too? No?
A bit arrogant question. Guess you think people who use h1 for logo don't
know anything about semantic markup :)

tee


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RE: [WSG] Re: More than one H1?

[Darren Lovelock]

Enough Darren bashing LOL My apologies for attacking so head-on but it
looked to me that your only intention was to attempt to boost your website
rankings and that is something that Google definitely advises against -
build websites for your visitors and not the search engines.
 
You mind telling me which of the websites you referenced include more than
one H1? That's what this discussion is about right? Also most of them had a
lot of html errors so not exactly good examples of great web design. Apart
from the BBC website of course - great website ;)
 
You said that you would include an H1 wrapped around the logo AND and an
additional H1 didn't you? You wanted to know its effect on SEO? Multiple
H1's dilute the relevance of the page and if stuffed with keywords will only
hinder a websites rankings rather than help them. That is why the SEO you
spoke to would recommend to use just one H1.
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/seo-checklist-using-page-headings-correct
ly/7723/
 
The reason why designers have had a need to place an H1 around the logo is
because the H1 should be first in a documents heading structure, it was to
comply with WCAG guidelines. Due to multiple column layouts a H2 could
easily come before the H1. Read more here -
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200901/headings_heading_hierarchy_and_
document_outlines/
 
Your reason however was because you believe the logo to be of equal
importance as the H1 lower down the page (for rankings?), not to meet
accessibility guidelines. 
 
My opinion is a logo is not a heading, it is a logo. I agree however there
should be a tag to give the logo more precedence on the page but a heading
is not the correct tag.
 
A logo is a graphical element ( http://www.answers.com/topic/ideogram
ideogram,  http://www.answers.com/topic/symbol symbol,
http://www.answers.com/topic/emblem emblem,
http://www.answers.com/topic/icon icon,
http://www.answers.com/topic/sign sign) that, together with its logotype
(a uniquely set and arranged  http://www.answers.com/topic/typeface
typeface) form a  http://www.answers.com/topic/trademark trademark or
commercial  http://www.answers.com/topic/brand brand. Typically, a logo's
design is for immediate recognition.
http://www.answers.com/logo#cite_note-wheeler_dbi_pg4-0 [1] The logo is
one aspect of a company's commercial  http://www.answers.com/topic/brand
brand, or economic or academic entity, and its shapes, colors, fonts, and
images usually are different from others in a similar market. Logos are also
used to identify organizations and other non-commercial entities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo
 
By using microformats or the RDFA doctype you can identify the logo in a
vcard along with your company details. 
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Christian Fagan
Sent: 17 October 2009 12:18
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: More than one H1?


Thanks for all your responsesI didn't expect this topic to be so
clouded.

For me and this particular site I'm working on, the problem still
remainswhile Jason's article is well written, it doesn't use any
governing body (eg. W3C/Google) references as basis for it's
conclusions...it is merely an opinion. An Information Architecture opinion.
Sure, I agree with alot of the article and completely understand the opinion
but it is still.an opinion.

Semantic structure is very much about opinion and interpretation. My
personal interpretation of this common problem was (and still is) that there
is no reason why multiple H1s can't be used on one page AND no reason
(semantic/IA/SEO/common sense) why an H1 can't wrap the logo. My
interpretation is that it is logical and important.

Having said that, I was ready to heed the advice of many on this thread and
remove the H1 around the logo as it seemed to be the general
consensusbut there seems to be a number of people who disagree and I'm
still yet to read anything from Google or W3C that says it is, indeed, bad
practice. Google, themselves (as the youTube video explains) says it is not
bad practice.

H1 denotes a heading. This I acknowledge. From a semantic point of view,
maybe the logo is not a heading at all.or maybe it is the premier
heading. Depends on whether you view a web page as a plain text document or
an interactive piece of media. In an interactive page, can a heading not be
something other than text? A logo perhaps?


To answer a few pointed questions:
Maybe they should listen to the SEO expert they've already spoken to... -
from Darren Lovelock.
I generally make a point of not believing everything I read or hear, so
excuse me for having an opinion different to that of a so-called SEO expert
and following up my opinion.
It seems, outside of Google index engineers, no-one really knows exactly
what effect page elements

RE: [WSG] Online shop package recommendations please.

[Darren Lovelock]

Drupal with the ubercart module - http://www.ubercart.org/ demo here -
http://livetest.ubercart.org/uc1/
 
List of features - http://www.ubercart.org/what_is_ubercart
 
Supported payment systems - http://www.ubercart.org/payment
 
Add the views module and ubercart views module for 'popular product' blocks
etc.
 
Views - http://drupal.org/project/views
Ubercart Views - http://drupal.org/project/uc_views
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of ja...@flexewebs.com
Sent: 17 October 2009 21:47
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Online shop package recommendations please.


Magento is an option also possibly 

Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device

  _  

From: hed...@digitalessence.net hed...@digitalessence.net 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:34:16 +0100
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Online shop package recommendations please.

Hi,


I'm in the process of quoting a few ecommerce packages/websites and
currently looking at opencart (for a free and non supported solution) and
JShop for a more pro supported version. Does anyone have any packages that
they recommend?


http://www.opencart.com/
http://www.jshop.co.uk/index

I'm not requiring bar codes or EPOS integration so need to keep it simple.

thanks.


Hedley Phillips
Digital Essence

T: 01306 627 128
M: 07940 508 417
E: hed...@digitalessence.net

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RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?

[Darren Lovelock]

To have the logo as a H1 on every page will most likely trigger spam filters
in the search engines as you are duplicating the heading throughout the
website, they should always be unique. Anyone advising to do this to boost
your page's keyword relevancy simply doesn't know what they are talking
about.
 
I cant think of a single reason why you would wrap a H1 around a logo as
there is no advantage to you, search engines or your visitors. Maybe if you
had a business directory where each listing had its own logo and alt text of
the company name then it could work there but not if there was already an H1
on the page.
 
The only case that you could possibly use two H1s on a page is if you had a
page containing two entirely different topics. But then again wouldn't you
just put this content on two separate pages? If your sites theme is to write
about lots of different content e.g. a general blog, then it should have a
main H1 and each topic be summarised using H2's and then include a link to
their own individual pages.
 
Why is the topic starter looking for reasons for why they shouldn't do it,
when they should be asking themselves what is their reason for using the H1
this way in the first place?
 
Did they see it on some 'SEO's website and think 'they must know what they
are doing so I'll copy them'? LOL 
 
Maybe they should listen to the SEO expert they've already spoken to...
 
I would have thought it's pretty obvious that you shouldn't do it ;)
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of EBS Admin
Sent: 16 October 2009 15:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?


The way to wrap the H1 for the logo is not to wrap it around an image, the
fist H1 should be text with keywords for the page that is being represented
in a grammatical format, with clever use of CSS these can be styled up to
look like graphic logos but degrade for accessibility and provide a tool to
get the H1 as the first element in a page whilst complementing the
semantics, accessibility and seo requirements.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of ja...@flexewebs.com
Sent: 16 October 2009 15:45
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?


Yes but my argument against putting the H1 around the logo is that the logo
is present on all pages and typically each site will be optimised for it's
brand name (e.g. Flexewebs) so no value in highlighting that.

I would potentially agree with you if you were arguing for putting H1 around
other content within the page, but certainly not the logo. 

Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device

  _  

From: EBS Admin ad...@essentialebizsolutions.net 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:36:00 +0100
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?

Okay so the justify, the first H1 is the title of a page which is to be
shown at the top of a page commonly used as the logo. The next h1 will be
the subject title i.e. Welcome to... so semantically this would require more
the 1 H1.
 
For accessibility which styles switched off it clearly breaks up the pages,
and has a similar effect for screen readers.
 
Hope this makes it a little clearer.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Grant
Sent: 16 October 2009 15:25
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: More than one H1?


EBS Admin - Matt doesn't say to use multiple H1s on the page, but says that
you will not get penalised for using them (within reason) on a given page.  
Every site I ever worked on I had used only one H1 on and it still enjoys
being on first page of Google. 
My formula, hence, does not only say Google or only Accessibility, but all
of the points I mentioned. 
You say it is semantic to use more than one H1, but don't actually justify
your reasoning behind it. 


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM, EBS Admin
ad...@essentialebizsolutions.net wrote:


Jason, 
Thats clearly not the case, if you read the WIA guidlines then is
advocates the use of multiple H1's, from an semantic point of view they make
sense and in terms of SEO the make sense because every site we've built uses
mutiple H1's and they enjoy page 1 results on Google.
 
The video that Tim has just sent in is by Google and they say to use
multiple H1's!

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Grant
Sent: 16 October 2009 14:48
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 

Subject: Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG
Digest)


Tim 

To keep it really simple: 

Spec + SEO + Good IA + Semantics + Accessibility + Common sense == One H1
per page

Hope this makes sense?

Thanks,

Jason


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Tim White tjameswh...@gmail.com

RE: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Chris,

The best I have found is Facelift Image Replacement - FLIR which is
accessible as it doesn't affect the source code. 

Style your text as normal with CSS and then it uses PHP, JavaScript and font
files to convert your text into images which it places over the text. 

Switch JavaScript off and it just degrades back to the standard CSS styled
text.

I've used it on a few websites now and I prefer it to sIFR. It's more
efficient if you only use it on headings.

See here for files and documentation: http://facelift.mawhorter.net/

Kind regards,  

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Kennon
Sent: 15 April 2009 01:40
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty

Hi All,

The text indent CSS property can render an h# element inaccessible to screen
readers. Other than using an img element and alt attribute, what image
replacement techniques are also accessible?


h#{

text-indent: -px;



}

Chris





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RE: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty

[Darren Lovelock]

Thats not really accessible is it?
 
Visitors with images switched off wont be able to see anything.
 
Regards,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mitch Malone
Sent: 15 April 2009 02:04
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty


This is what I would recommend...

HTML:

hX class=hidemea href=# title=This is the link titleThis is the
link text/a/h1

CSS:

hX.hideme {
text-indent: -px;
background: url(linktofile.png);
height: XXpx; // This should match the a element
width: XXpx; // This should match the a element
}

hX.hideme a:link, hX.hideme a:visited, hX.hideme a:hover, hX.hideme
a:active,  {
display: block;
height: XXpx; // This should match the hX element
width: XXpx; // This should match the hX element
}

Working examples of this are actually at my website:
http://www.mitchmalone.name/ where the social media icons are. All icons are
replaced using a spriting technique which enables tooltips etc. but removes
text. Please ignore the rest of the site as it is a work in progress.

Hope this helps!


- M 



On 15/04/2009, at 10:39 AM, Christopher Kennon wrote:


Hi All,

The text indent CSS property can render an h# element inaccessible to screen
readers. Other than using an img element and alt attribute, what image
replacement techniques are also accessible?


h#{

text-indent: -px;



}

Chris





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RE: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty

[Darren Lovelock]

What I came up with a while ago for a button was this:
 
a href=
img src= height=1px width=1px alt=Text for screen readers  /
/a
 
Set your button image on the anchor using CSS and leave a few pixels of
solid colour around the image.
 
Make the spacer img inside the same colour as the solid colour so when it
overlaps the edge of the anchor it cant be seen.
 
Images switched off / screen readers will still be able to read the img alt
text. Best of all you can use CSS still for the hover effect so no
javascript either.
 
That could work well on your social media buttons ;)
 
Semantic? No. Accessible - Yes.
 
Regards,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893


  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mitch Malone
Sent: 15 April 2009 02:38
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty


Hmmm... 

If they had images off, no. CSS off, yes.

Touché!

- M


On 15/04/2009, at 11:31 AM, Darren Lovelock wrote:


Thats not really accessible is it?
 
Visitors with images switched off wont be able to see anything.
 
Regards,
 

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mitch Malone
Sent: 15 April 2009 02:04
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty


This is what I would recommend...

HTML:

hX class=hidemea href=# title=This is the link titleThis is the
link text/a/h1

CSS:

hX.hideme {
text-indent: -px;
background: url(linktofile.png);
height: XXpx; // This should match the a element
width: XXpx; // This should match the a element
}

hX.hideme a:link, hX.hideme a:visited, hX.hideme a:hover, hX.hideme
a:active,  {
display: block;
height: XXpx; // This should match the hX element
width: XXpx; // This should match the hX element
}

Working examples of this are actually at my website:
http://www.mitchmalone.name/ where the social media icons are. All icons are
replaced using a spriting technique which enables tooltips etc. but removes
text. Please ignore the rest of the site as it is a work in progress.

Hope this helps!


- M 



On 15/04/2009, at 10:39 AM, Christopher Kennon wrote:


Hi All,

The text indent CSS property can render an h# element inaccessible to screen
readers. Other than using an img element and alt attribute, what image
replacement techniques are also accessible?


h#{

text-indent: -px;



}

Chris





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RE: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs

[Darren Lovelock]

Do a image screenshot using print screen and then convert that to PDF?
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of agerasimc...@unioncentral.com
Sent: 30 March 2009 14:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: li...@webstandardsgroup.org; wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs



I have a problem converting my web pages, which are CSS driven into PDFs
(users usually do Right Click - convert page to PDF) - they need to send
those pages for client approval in the PDF format.   The pages in PDF
display very poorly, not all CSS images are displayed, CSS formatting is
completely off...   

Does anybody have any idea, what's the best approach to tame the CSS pages
and convert them to PDF? 
Thank you! 

Anya V.  Gerasimchuk
Web Designer, IT - Web Shared Services
UNIFI Information Technology 
agerasimc...@unioncentral.com
(513) 595 -2391 



anthony.hawk...@ssc.govt.nz 
Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 


02/01/2009 02:52 PM 


Please respond to
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org



To
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 

cc

Subject
[WSG] WCAG2.0 summary






Hi there - WebAim just released a good summarised guide to WCAG2, a lot
easier for the newbie to get their head around. 
  
 http://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist
http://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist 
  
  
cheers 

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RE: [WSG] Examples of great high-school websites?

[Darren Lovelock]

Oh dear! And Educational Networks say they've made over 600 school
'websites' like that. 

No doctype, bloated code with tables for layout. 360 validation errors.

Visitors with images switched off wont see what the main nav links are and
those with javascript off wont be able to use them!

I agree with Stuart, that is a very poor website.

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
Sent: 17 January 2009 19:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Examples of great high-school websites?


Perhaps the students should code the site - they couldn't do much worse!

On Fri, January 16, 2009 7:00 pm, Fred Ballard wrote:
 Take a look at Sullivan High School's http://www.sullivanhs.org/. As 
 you can see in the homepage's lower right corner it's from the Chicago 
 Public Schools, http://www.cps.k12.il.us/, with a company, Educational 
 Networks, http://www.educationalnetworks.net/, behind it.

 Is it too slick? I'm of two minds. It's great that it's a good-looking 
 site, but it might be nice to let the students be the designers. I 
 don't actually know what the students think about it, on the other 
 hand.

 Fred

 On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM, David Lane d...@egressive.com wrote:

 Oops - should've been Disclosure rather than Disclaimer :)

 On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:21 +1300, David Lane wrote:
  Disclaimer: I've had occasional association with the work being 
  done
 at
  Hagley, and have been a guest speaker to the computing students on 
  a couple occasions :)

 --
 David Lane = Egressive Ltd = d...@egressive.com = m:+64 21 229 8147
 p:+64 3 963 3733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents 
 http://egressive.com  we only use open standards: http://w3.org 
 Effusion Group Founding Member === http://effusiongroup.com




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RE: [WSG] The mystery gap issue

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Kristine,
 
All versions of IE before version 7 do not support png transparency. I
usually use javascript to get this to work correctly for IE 5.5 and 6.
 
One of these should help:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/index.htm
http://www.twinhelix.com/css/iepngfix/
 
Hope this helps!
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kristine Cummins
Sent: 11 November 2008 10:02
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] The mystery gap issue


Please check www.richardvonsaal.com/test/index.html
 
The gap is about 2 pixels high directly beneath the big image, and on top of
the footer div.

Stylesheet www.richardvonsaal.com/test/styles.html
 
I'm tearing hair at this point. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Another question: why is it that the .png file shows a white background in
older versions of IE? Is it because it hadn't adapted to this newer file
type? Should I not use the .png file type yet?

Thanks in advance,
Kristine
 

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RE: [WSG] Mark-up for physical/postal addresses

[Darren Lovelock]

Why not use the address tag and a definition list? I believe that also
helps a little with localised SEO :)
 
address
John Doebr /
123 Acacia Avenuebr /
Suburb State Postal Codebr /
/address

dl
dtTel:/dtdd888 9581 4077/dd
dtFax:/dtdd888 9581 2835/dd
/dl

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ted Drake
Sent: 28 October 2008 09:01
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Mark-up for physical/postal addresses



Personally, IF the address had a name associated with it, I would use a
definition list. 

 

However, there are some purists out there that can't see beyond using a dl
for anything other than defining a word.  But John Doe is a term and his
address, phone number, etc are describing him:

 

John Doe

123 Acacia Avenue

Suburb State Postal Code

Tel 888 9581 4077

Fax 888 9581 2835

 

Can be marked up as the following (including microformats)

 

dl class=vcard 

dt class=fn orgJohn Doe/dt

dd class=adrstrong class='street-address123 Acacia Avenue/strong

span class=postal-codeSuburb State Postal Code/span/dd

dd class=telspan class=typetel/span: strong class=value888
9581 4077/strong/dd

dd class=telspan class=typefax/span: strong class=value888
9581 2835/strong/dd

/dl

 

Ted

 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Henrik Madsen
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:23 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Mark-up for physical/postal addresses

 

 

Can anyone guide me re. best practice for marking-up physical addresses that
would appear like this:

 

123 Acacia Avenue

Suburb State Postal Code

Tel 888 9581 4077

Fax 888 9581 2835

 

Or is it acceptable to keep all in p and use /br's

 

TIA

 

Henrik

 


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RE: [WSG] Figures out issues. Standards for troubleshooting css

[Darren Lovelock]

The web developer toolbar for firefox can help you to see block level
elements, choose - outline  outline block level elements. This can
sometimes be a big help when sections are behaving oddly.

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: 31 August 2008 19:56
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Figures out issues. Standards for troubleshooting css

 Fred Ballard wrote:
 For problems with box alignment, I know I usually turn on background 
 colors to clearly see the size and position of the boxes  the browser 
 is using.
 
 Or is that a newbie answer?

Definitely not a newbie method. Setting backgrounds is one of the quickest
ways to check line-ups while designing and troubleshooting.

I usually set borders first time around, and the extra element-dimensions
borders create gives me lots of information about tight-corner layouts and
other potential design-problems that browsers may handle differently.

Another technique I use daily is to invalidate CSS rules instead of
commenting them out during troubleshooting.
Typical example: background-: #abc;
Such rules stop working in all browsers, and the CSS validator will help
find these invalid rules if I lose track of them.

I prefer such direct debugging over developer tools in various browsers,
simply because the tools are always at least one step behind.

Michael Horowitz wrote:
 The hardest thing about learning a new language is learning its 
 troubleshooting techniques.

Maybe not a technique, but...

Being able to separate browser-bugs from designer-bugs quickly, helps a lot.
That means being aware of the browser-bugs we run into most frequent, to a
point where it almost becomes second nature to spot them.
A quick stress-test of a design in the major browsers should normally be
enough to pin-point most bugs and design-weaknesses, without even having to
look at the HTML/CSS behind it.

Getting to that point takes time and a lot of bug-spotting, so looking at
other designers' work, attempts, failures etc. across browser-land is (for
me at least) more useful and less time-consuming than creating test-cases
and struggling with my own designs.
That's the main reason I keep an eye on lists/forums like [css-d], [WD],
[WSG] etc, since all you new and old designers manage to trigger many more
browser-bugs and create more weak designs than I can - even on a good day
:-)

Helping others fix their problems helps me recognize, remember and thereby
avoid getting stuck on the same or similar problems. Seeing how others go
about solving problems helps a lot too - even when I disagree.
Doesn't matter if I see the problem or need a solution right now, as I
probably will one day. A few minutes troubleshooting someone else's case may
save me hours on my own cases later on, so it is time well spent.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag

[Darren Lovelock]

I'm not understanding why you would use a logo/img as an h1 tag? Unless you
wanted to use a nice anti-aliased font for the h1 text? If that's the case
then I would just use sifr. 

SEO-wise you could only implement this on the homepage, otherwise you would
have a duplicated h1 on all your web pages (providing the image had the same
alt text). I wouldn't recommend using different alt text either when using
the same image sitewide, as search engines may see that as keyword stuffing.


I would keep them separate and have the alt text on the logo as your company
name. Then have unique h1's as normal text on each page.

I used to use a div with text in it for the logo, then css to add a
background image and text indent to move the text off-screen. I changed back
to an img tag as the alt text is more powerful for SEO purposes. 

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Bennett
Sent: 25 August 2008 23:07
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag

Hi Michael,

While that is possible, unfortunately the h1 text doesn't display when
images are off and css is still in use.
This is the issue many image replacement techniques sought to address.

Paul


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RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Mat,
 
Can you show us an example? Not really sure how you would want it to scroll
without a vertical scrollbar, unless you want it to scroll horizontally?
 
To create another method of scrolling I would presume that you will have to
use javascript.
 
I'm thinking though that the simplest idea would be to not limit the page
height to 550px. Seems very small to me!
 
Cheers,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 12:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling



I'm still working on a tight layout for a soon to end client. I'm trying to
write a price list page for them, but the height of the page is fixed to
550px, and for the life of me I can't think of how to make the DIV scroll
without having a vertical scroll bar and for it to still work in IE6, 7 and
FireFox without dirty hacks.

 

If anyone can help that will be brilliant as I want the user to experience
the site the same no matter what browser they are using.

 

Thanks

Mat

www.i-matto.co.uk http://www.i-matto.co.uk/ 

 

 

 


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RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

[Darren Lovelock]

Mat,

Ah I see! Have you tried adding in something like:

overflow-y: scroll;
overflow-x: hidden; 

to your CSS?

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Darren,
Just realised my error, I want to use a vertical scroll bar but not
have the horizontal one showing.

I've uploaded an example of the page as it is now, but all the text hide's
because of the fixed height, I've tried to have my client allow me to expand
the height from 550 to 100% but it's a no go.

Example is at url www.essentialebizsolutions.net/client/human/example.gif

Many thanks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Mat,
 
Can you show us an example? Not really sure how you would want it to scroll
without a vertical scrollbar, unless you want it to scroll horizontally?
 
To create another method of scrolling I would presume that you will have to
use javascript.
 
I'm thinking though that the simplest idea would be to not limit the page
height to 550px. Seems very small to me!
 
Cheers,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 12:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling



I'm still working on a tight layout for a soon to end client. I'm trying to
write a price list page for them, but the height of the page is fixed to
550px, and for the life of me I can't think of how to make the DIV scroll
without having a vertical scroll bar and for it to still work in IE6, 7 and
FireFox without dirty hacks.

 

If anyone can help that will be brilliant as I want the user to experience
the site the same no matter what browser they are using.

 

Thanks

Mat

www.i-matto.co.uk http://www.i-matto.co.uk/ 

 

 

 


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RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

[Darren Lovelock]

Yes I believe if you change the css to auto it will only show the scroll if
it's required.

So.. 

overflow-y: auto; 
overflow-x: hidden;

In theory it should work.

Cheers,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 15:17
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

That's what I was tying to find last night, Is there a way to make it so the
scroll bar only show if the content requires more space than what the box
allows?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 14:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Mat,

Ah I see! Have you tried adding in something like:

overflow-y: scroll;
overflow-x: hidden; 

to your CSS?

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Darren,
Just realised my error, I want to use a vertical scroll bar but not
have the horizontal one showing.

I've uploaded an example of the page as it is now, but all the text hide's
because of the fixed height, I've tried to have my client allow me to expand
the height from 550 to 100% but it's a no go.

Example is at url www.essentialebizsolutions.net/client/human/example.gif

Many thanks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Mat,
 
Can you show us an example? Not really sure how you would want it to scroll
without a vertical scrollbar, unless you want it to scroll horizontally?
 
To create another method of scrolling I would presume that you will have to
use javascript.
 
I'm thinking though that the simplest idea would be to not limit the page
height to 550px. Seems very small to me!
 
Cheers,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 12:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling



I'm still working on a tight layout for a soon to end client. I'm trying to
write a price list page for them, but the height of the page is fixed to
550px, and for the life of me I can't think of how to make the DIV scroll
without having a vertical scroll bar and for it to still work in IE6, 7 and
FireFox without dirty hacks.

 

If anyone can help that will be brilliant as I want the user to experience
the site the same no matter what browser they are using.

 

Thanks

Mat

www.i-matto.co.uk http://www.i-matto.co.uk/ 

 

 

 


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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1572 - Release Date: 25/07/2008
06:51




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RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

[Darren Lovelock]

No problem, glad I could help :)

BTW, I sent you a message about your blog (www.i-matto.co.uk) through your
company's website contact form. (Couldn't find a way of contacting you on
the blog)

There was some error coming up that I thought you should know about!
 
Cheers, Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 16:04
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Thanks for that Darren, works perfectly without any ugly hacks, and it
passes w3c.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 15:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Yes I believe if you change the css to auto it will only show the scroll if
it's required.

So.. 

overflow-y: auto;
overflow-x: hidden;

In theory it should work.

Cheers,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 15:17
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

That's what I was tying to find last night, Is there a way to make it so the
scroll bar only show if the content requires more space than what the box
allows?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 14:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Mat,

Ah I see! Have you tried adding in something like:

overflow-y: scroll;
overflow-x: hidden; 

to your CSS?

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Darren,
Just realised my error, I want to use a vertical scroll bar but not
have the horizontal one showing.

I've uploaded an example of the page as it is now, but all the text hide's
because of the fixed height, I've tried to have my client allow me to expand
the height from 550 to 100% but it's a no go.

Example is at url www.essentialebizsolutions.net/client/human/example.gif

Many thanks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Mat,
 
Can you show us an example? Not really sure how you would want it to scroll
without a vertical scrollbar, unless you want it to scroll horizontally?
 
To create another method of scrolling I would presume that you will have to
use javascript.
 
I'm thinking though that the simplest idea would be to not limit the page
height to 550px. Seems very small to me!
 
Cheers,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 12:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling



I'm still working on a tight layout for a soon to end client. I'm trying to
write a price list page for them, but the height of the page is fixed to
550px, and for the life of me I can't think of how to make the DIV scroll
without having a vertical scroll bar and for it to still work in IE6, 7 and
FireFox without dirty hacks.

 

If anyone can help that will be brilliant as I want the user to experience
the site the same no matter what browser they are using.

 

Thanks

Mat

www.i-matto.co.uk http://www.i-matto.co.uk/ 

 

 

 


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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database

RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

[Darren Lovelock]

Sure, no problem.

I'm using FF3 and this message comes up:

Reported Attack Site!

This web site at www.i-matto.co.uk has been reported as an attack site and
has been blocked based on your security preferences.

Attack sites try to install programs that steal private information, use
your computer to attack others, or damage your system.

Some attack sites intentionally distribute harmful software, but many are
compromised without the knowledge or permission of their owners.

Then is gives you two buttons - one is 'get me out of here' and the other is
'why was this site blocked?' which leads to this page:
http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefo
xhl=en-GBsite=http://www.i-matto.co.uk/

So I would check your hosting to make sure everything is ok! Looks like it
could have been hijacked or if not my FF is going crazy! 

You may have to upgrade your blog software.
  
Regards,

Darren
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 18:33
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Darren,
Would you be able to send that info again for me, would be really
appreciated, and thanks again for the info on the scrolling

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 16:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

No problem, glad I could help :)

BTW, I sent you a message about your blog (www.i-matto.co.uk) through your
company's website contact form. (Couldn't find a way of contacting you on
the blog)

There was some error coming up that I thought you should know about!
 
Cheers, Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 16:04
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Thanks for that Darren, works perfectly without any ugly hacks, and it
passes w3c.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 15:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Yes I believe if you change the css to auto it will only show the scroll if
it's required.

So.. 

overflow-y: auto;
overflow-x: hidden;

In theory it should work.

Cheers,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 15:17
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

That's what I was tying to find last night, Is there a way to make it so the
scroll bar only show if the content requires more space than what the box
allows?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 14:41
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Mat,

Ah I see! Have you tried adding in something like:

overflow-y: scroll;
overflow-x: hidden; 

to your CSS?

Darren

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Darren,
Just realised my error, I want to use a vertical scroll bar but not
have the horizontal one showing.

I've uploaded an example of the page as it is now, but all the text hide's
because of the fixed height, I've tried to have my client allow me to expand
the height from 550 to 100% but it's a no go.

Example is at url www.essentialebizsolutions.net/client/human/example.gif

Many thanks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: 25 July 2008 13:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling

Hi Mat,
 
Can you show us an example? Not really sure how you would want it to scroll
without a vertical scrollbar, unless you want it to scroll horizontally?
 
To create another method of scrolling I would presume that you will have to
use javascript.
 
I'm thinking though that the simplest idea would be to not limit the page
height to 550px. Seems very small to me!
 
Cheers,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Sent: 25 July 2008 12:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Vertical Scrolling



I'm still working on a tight layout for a soon to end client. I'm trying to
write a price list page for them, but the height of the page is fixed to
550px, and for the life of me I can't think of how to make the DIV scroll
without having a vertical scroll bar and for it to still

RE: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

[Darren Lovelock]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael MD
Sent: 25 June 2008 11:10
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS



 I agree, this is not web standards. However remember they could be 
 following web standards with their CSS version.

 and I don't think it is just in the UK, it is every where for Vodafone.
 Which not only defies any effort you made to put the thing together 
 for presentation standards as well.

 I think it is their solution to controlling the user experience on 
 handset side of things when someone accesses mobile web.

 Why don't they let the community sought it out?
 It seems now that if standards are to be effective in the mobile 
 access space, there is now another hump to get an open standard.



are they doing this for all sites on all types of phones
or only changing it if the phone's browser can't handle the original
format/doctype/css/etc

The latter is nothing new...
Google has been doing it for years for pages linked from mobile search
results allowing even ancient phones to browse pages they would not
otherwise be able to look at.
(ie making them accessible!)

--

I believe that they are changing all types of phones. I have a sony ericcson
k800i and it modifies the pages on that unless I go in the vodafone account
settings and switch it off. It works fine without it!

The Novarra proxy is over-riding the handheld stylesheet when I visit my
website. This is because my site will deliver the standard stylesheet as it
detects Novarra's user agent and not my mobile's. So it affects any site
regardless if they are already mobile friendly! 

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 









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RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

[Darren Lovelock]

I just read the article about Vodafone UK and their manipulation of the
user-agent header http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/index.htm

I don't know if this is old news to you guys but Vodafone is passing mobile
internet connections through proxy software called Novarra. Novarra is
supposed to re-render the page as 'mobile friendly'. Because it is using the
proxy server your handheld CSS file is ignored and a poor version of the
site is delivered to the mobile user instead.

This also affects websites that have specific content or downloads based on
the user agent, say for example MP3's or images with different sizes that
are provided for multiple mobile devices due to their differences in
compatibility. These sites wont be able to detect the correct user agent as
they will be working with the proxy and not the mobile device.

Not only that but it also means that SSL connections are not secure through
it either!

Surely this is heavily against web standards?

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jens Nedal
Sent: 24 June 2008 11:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

Paul Collins wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and 
 CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it 
 doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting 
 mobile phones it would?!
 
 The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main 
 logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as 
 it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many 
 mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?!
 

In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which
mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might
help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of
many mobile devices and more.

http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/

regards, Jens


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RE: [WSG] Multi level navigation!

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi James,

The sub UL should have an li wrapping it, that will make it validate.

Like this:
 
ul
   lia href=#Home/a /li
   lia href=#About Us/a /li
   lia href=#How to choose/a /li
   li
   ul
   lia href=#Step 1: Front Cover/a/li
   lia href=#Step 2: Type Style/a/li
   lia href=#Step 3: Optional Eulogy/a/li
   lia href=#Step 4: Verse or Prayer/a/li
   lia href=#Step 5: Border Options/a/li

   lia href=#Step 6: Place your order/a/li
  /ul
   /li
   lia href=#Price List/a/li
   lia href=#FAQ/a/li
   lia href=#Contact Us/a/li
 /ul 

Cheers, 

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of james
Sent: 18 June 2008 14:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Multi level navigation!

Hi,

Just wondering if any one can help me, i am trying to make a multi level CSS
list on my website for navigation, it looks fine and works fine in all
browsers, however it is now valid XHTML.

The navigation can be seen here;

http://jungle-systems.com/~mip/fmn/

I have tried adding a new class for the inner navigation, that makes it
valid, however it displays with a gap at the top of the inner navigation on
IE.

Can anyone guide me in the right direction?

Cheers.


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RE: [WSG] Join me on Last.fm!

[Darren Lovelock]

 
How about you dont spam the list?
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Samantha
Sent: 26 May 2008 01:24
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Join me on Last.fm!


Hi Web,

Add me as a friend on Last.fm
http://www.last.fm/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_b  so we can share
our music taste :)
Check out what I'm listening to
http://www.last.fm/user/30threeseconds/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_b
 . 

 http://www.last.fm/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_b Last.fm


Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.
Just click here to automatically accept my add.
http://www.last.fm/join/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_b  



Visit my music profile and leave me a shout! I'll see you around,
- Samantha




PS: I'm 30threeseconds
http://www.last.fm/user/30threeseconds/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_b
  on Last.fm http://www.www.last.fm/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_a
. 

  _  

You received this message because someone (Samantha) who knows you sent you
an invitation to join them on Last.fm
http://www.last.fm/?invitedby=30threesecondstp=ff_tp_a . Your address was
not saved and we will never contact you unsolicited. For more information,
see our privacy policy at: http://www.last.fm/help/privacy.php. 


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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Hey Calvin,
 
I've kind of fixed it using divs now.
 
#container { display: table-row; padding: 0; margin: 0; width: 100%; }
#container div { display: table-cell; vertical-align: middle; }
 
div id=container
div id=left
content
/div
div id=right
content
/div
/div
 
This works perfectly in all standard compliant browsers (FF, Safari and
Opera) but not Internet Explorer 6 or 7. It will work in IE 8 though
apparently.
 
Because 67 dont support the display: table; styles. I fixed this by adding
float: left to separate stylesheets for the IE's using conditional
statements.
 
This way IE has the elements vertically aligned to the top of their
containing div instead of in the middle like on the compliant browsers
(serves them right for using IE lol).
 
Cheers,
 
Darren 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Calvin Chan
Sent: 19 May 2008 19:47
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li


Hi Darren, 

First of all, I will have to agree with Matijs that it is probably not the
best place to use li.

Second, I was actually doing some research on these type of problems the
other day, and I founded this:

http://www.jakpsatweb.cz/css/css-vertical-center-solution.html


However, I did not get a chance to try it myself yet, but maybe this can
give you some idea on where to start.

~Calvin

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Matijs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I think semantically I would have gone for divs in the first place as it's
not really a list perse... 


On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


Here's a example of what I'm doing http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/test.html

I want the li's to behave the same as table cells set with valign:middle.

I've had to float the li's left instead of displaying them inline otherwise
they stack on top of each other in a mess!

I suppose looking at it I could have used divs instead of a list but either
way, I think it will still behave the same.

Cheers,


Darren


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Rahul Gonsalves
Sent: 18 May 2008 13:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

Darren,


On 17-May-08, at 8:09 PM, Darren Lovelock wrote:

 I've been trying to find a solution that will allow me to vertically
 center all the items in a li. The big problems i've got are that the
 li's are a non-fixed height and are floating to the left.

A link to a stripped down test would be helpful.

However, if you can't post a link, perhaps one of the links below will be
helpful to you?

Best,
 - Rahul.

[1] http://www.brunildo.org/test/
[2] http://www.brunildo.org/test/vertmiddle.html
[3] http://www.brunildo.org/test/valimid2.html
[4] http://www.brunildo.org/test/va_lineheight.html


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-- 
Calvin Chan
Web Application Engineer

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: 1.650.340.0044
Mobile: 1.510.508.8250 

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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Thanks, but as I said, that doesn't work in this case because the li is
floating. 

Also I think it is dependant on the the li having a set height value which I
cant do either.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
Sent: 18 May 2008 10:01
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li


I seem to remember someone in a previous thread, about similar problem,
suggested using,

display: table-cell;
vertical-align: middle;


On Sat, May 17, 2008 3:39 pm, Darren Lovelock wrote:
 Hi list,

 I've been trying to find a solution that will allow me to vertically 
 center all the items in a li.

 The big problems i've got are that the li's are a non-fixed height and 
 are floating to the left.

 So that kills the negative
 http://www.jakpsatweb.cz/css/css-vertical-center-solution.html
 positioning
 method and the table-cell
 http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/center#vertical  methods that 
 I've found whilst scouring the web.

 Does anyone know a method that I can use that doesn't involve using 
 tables?

 Any help will be greatly appreciated!

 Regards,

 Darren Lovelock
 Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/
 T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893



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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Matt, 

No worries. Still missing it though! Text-align:center will align the
elements horizontally centered.

I want to align the elements INSIDE the li to be vertically centered to the
height of the li. 
So there is an even space above and below each of the elements inside the
li. At the moment they are sticking close to the top of the li.  

I cant use a top margin because the list is used more than once in the page
and the li's each have different heights. % value for margin-top seem to use
the document height and not the height of the li.

Basically I want to achieve the same effect as valign: middle in a table
cell.

I just can find a logical solution that will work with a non-fixed height
container.

It's looking to me like it cant be done without a table!

I wonder if there is a way of doing this with javascript?

Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Fellows
Sent: 18 May 2008 02:58
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

Sorry Darren - it was late an i was tired! Vertical/Horizontal,
Left/Right...

I don't think there is a need to do anything too exciting, the container of
the list should just need a text-align:center.
Is this basically what you are after? I have made the div only 300px wide so
you get the wrapping effect which I think is what is causing the grief.

div.container{text-align:center; width:300px} div.container ol
li{list-style-type:none; }

div class=container
ol
   li class=elem
   label for=dnameDisplay Name:/label
   input type=text id=dname class=tinput /
   /li
   li class=desc
   pInformation about preview box etc. If it is more than two
lines or ## characters link to./p
   spana href=learn more/a/span
   /li
/ol
/div

The list items will be centered. If you have multiple columns you can just
place them next to each other.
Or am i still missing something?

--
Matt Fellows
http://www.onegeek.com.au/


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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Yeah it is a bit of a tricky one lol! 

Looks like this is one example where tables are better for layout! 

Thanks very much for taking a look though :)

Darren 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Fellows
Sent: 18 May 2008 13:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

lol I think I will leave this one alone, I think i'm making you're job more
difficult instead of the other way around!

Please do send through your solution when you find it so I can have that
'light bulb' moment.

Cheers,

--
Matt Fellows
http://www.onegeek.com.au/


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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Cant set a height on the li, tried it though to see what would happen and it
didnt work. Playing with line-height isnt the right way to fix this.
 
Thanks anyway.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Viable Design
Sent: 18 May 2008 14:24
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li


Darren,

Try assigning a line-height and a height to the li, and make the two the
same.

Jo


On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


Yeah it is a bit of a tricky one lol!

Looks like this is one example where tables are better for layout!

Thanks very much for taking a look though :)

Darren


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Fellows

Sent: 18 May 2008 13:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li


lol I think I will leave this one alone, I think i'm making you're job more
difficult instead of the other way around!

Please do send through your solution when you find it so I can have that
'light bulb' moment.

Cheers,

--
Matt Fellows
http://www.onegeek.com.au/


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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Here's a example of what I'm doing http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/test.html

I want the li's to behave the same as table cells set with valign:middle.

I've had to float the li's left instead of displaying them inline otherwise
they stack on top of each other in a mess!

I suppose looking at it I could have used divs instead of a list but either
way, I think it will still behave the same.

Cheers,

Darren


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rahul Gonsalves
Sent: 18 May 2008 13:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

Darren,

On 17-May-08, at 8:09 PM, Darren Lovelock wrote:

 I've been trying to find a solution that will allow me to vertically 
 center all the items in a li. The big problems i've got are that the 
 li's are a non-fixed height and are floating to the left.

A link to a stripped down test would be helpful.

However, if you can't post a link, perhaps one of the links below will be
helpful to you?

Best,
  - Rahul.

[1] http://www.brunildo.org/test/
[2] http://www.brunildo.org/test/vertmiddle.html
[3] http://www.brunildo.org/test/valimid2.html
[4] http://www.brunildo.org/test/va_lineheight.html


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[WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi list,
 
I've been trying to find a solution that will allow me to vertically center
all the items in a li.
 
The big problems i've got are that the li's are a non-fixed height and are
floating to the left.
 
So that kills the negative
http://www.jakpsatweb.cz/css/css-vertical-center-solution.html positioning
method and the table-cell
http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/center#vertical  methods that I've
found whilst scouring the web.
 
Does anyone know a method that I can use that doesn't involve using tables?
 
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
 
Regards,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ 
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 


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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Matt,

I'm trying to vertically align all the items inside an li.

This could be achieved with the valign of a table cell, but tables are not
an option!

The li's are floating left. I want the labels, inputs, p's etc to be
vertically aligned in their containing li.

This is one of the lists I'm using: 

ol
li class=elem
label for=dnameDisplay Name:/label
input type=text id=dname class=tinput /
/li
li class=desc
pInformation about preview box etc. If it is more than two
lines or ## characters link to./p
spana href=learn more/a/span
/li
/ol 

Hope it makes more sense now! 

Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Fellows
Sent: 17 May 2008 15:57
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

A demo would be helpful, but have you tried something along the lines of the
following:

div id=footer
ul
  lia href=/link1Link1/a/li
  lia href=/link2Link2/a/li
 ...
/ul
/div

div#footer{text-align:center;}
div#footer ul li{display:inline;list-style-type:none; }

Cheers,

--
Matt Fellows
http://www.onegeek.com.au/


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RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

[Darren Lovelock]

I'm trying to achieve the same as a table cell set with valign=middle but
with an li.

This would be the list elements in a table:
table
tr
td valign=middlelabel for=dnameDisplay Name:/label
input type=text id=dname 
 class=tinput //td
td valign=middlepInformation about preview 
 box etc. If it is more than two lines or ## characters link to./p 
 spana href=learn more/a/span/td
/tr
/table

The labels etc would be vertically aligned in the center of the td's.

Darren 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Hucklesby
Sent: 17 May 2008 22:31
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Centering all items in a li

On Sat, 17 May 2008 16:45:05 +0100, Darren Lovelock wrote:
 Hi Matt,

 I'm trying to vertically align all the items inside an li.

 This could be achieved with the valign of a table cell, but tables are not
an option!

 The li's are floating left. I want the labels, inputs, p's etc to be 
 vertically aligned in their containing li.

 This is one of the lists I'm using:

 ol
 li class=elem
 label for=dnameDisplay Name:/label input type=text id=dname 
 class=tinput / /li li class=desc pInformation about preview 
 box etc. If it is more than two lines or ## characters link to./p 
 spana href=learn more/a/span /li /ol

 Hope it makes more sense now!


Nope.

Can't see why you'd put form elements in a list anyway. Perhaps you could
post an example, with tables if necessary, to show us what you intend?

Cordially,
David
--




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RE: [WSG] Footer problem!

[Darren Lovelock]

Also James you have used the same ID of 'footer' on the div and the
paragraph. 

ID's should only be used once on a page. That will cause problems too.

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: 15 May 2008 12:20
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Footer problem!

Are you worried about the text overlapping the footer? If so, try this:

div#footer {
background-color:#2D2D2D;
border-top:1px solid #00;
clear:both;
height:100px;
width:100%;
}

Cheers
Adam
-







james wrote:
 Hi All,

 This is probably a real easy thing to do, how ever i cannot get it to 
 stay in the same position through each page.

 I think it is something to do with the way i have coded the text on my 
 page;

 Here is the link to the site

 http://www.jungle-systems.com/~mip/companyprofile.html

 Could anyone have a look for me please.

 Cheers James


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RE: [WSG] Conact Form!

[Darren Lovelock]

Theres no id on the textarea :)

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of james
Sent: 15 May 2008 16:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Conact Form!

Hi All;

 On my contact page i have used this code, however it comes back as not 
 being valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional, am i missing something silly here?
 form
 label for=userName/label input type=text id=user value= 
 /br /
 label for=companyCompany:/label input type=text id=company 
 value= /br /
 label for=emailaddressEmail Address:/label input type=text 
 id=emailaddress value= /br /
 label for=commentsComments:/label textarea name=comments 
 /textarea br / input type=submit id=submitbutton 
 value=Submit / /form

 Thanks James




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RE: R: [WSG] is display:none inheritance

[Darren Lovelock]

Its because of the specificity. 

See here for more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html

Also you may want to check it still works in ie6 :)

Cheers,

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tee
Sent: 12 May 2008 00:56
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: R: [WSG] is display:none inheritance


On May 10, 2008, at 1:41 AM, Diego La Monica wrote:

 Hi tee,
 simply:

 ul#nav li ul li ul{
 display: none;
 }


Hi Diego, it doesn't work - all sub-level show up.

However, if I add the #menu it works

#menu ul#nav li ul li ul{
display: none;
}

As previously mentioned, I figured it out with this one

#menu ul#nav ul ul {display: none;}

It appears that it needs a very clear instruction and demands the respect of
Parent - Child relatonship, somthing like you can't call your grandpa 'Hey
Joe!' :-)

Ciao,
tee



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RE: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links

[Darren Lovelock]

The content:after pseudo class can be used to seperate the links with a
vertical bar. 
 
It wont work in Internet Explorer but I believe it will still work with
screen readers (although at this point in time I cannot find anything that
confirms this).
 
That said, it's far more logical to just seperate the links using a list, as
Stuart has already stated.
 
Regards,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren West
Sent: 09 May 2008 12:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links


The reason for putting the character there in the first place is
explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links.

It is my understanding that the fact that they are seperate links is what
distinguishes between links ...


Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred
character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is
not used for anything else and can't be confused.

Prefered to a list?



2008/5/9 Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


The reason for putting the character there in the first place is
explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links.

Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred
character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is
not used for anything else and can't be confused.

Border is, of course, purely presentational and of no use whatsoever to
screen-readers and, therefore, does not fulfill accessibility
requirements.



On Fri, May 9, 2008 7:31 am, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
 The most common separator used in such circumstances ... is the
 vertical bar...whilst it is quite wordy

 That's the reason why I've started *not* to use it anymore. I'm using
 borders instead and add the class last to the last list element to
 apply no borders at all.

 Whilst a border is slightly higher than a vertical bar it avoids
 screenreaders to go

 home vertical bar latest posts vertical bar contact us vertical bar
 sitemap vertical bar 

 Cheers,

 Jens

 The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying
 files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient,
 any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this
 e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to
 copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated
 without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received
 this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail
 or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the
 accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or
 attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax
 does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or
 attached files.


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RE: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links

[Darren Lovelock]

Yeah you're quite probably right. I just thought i'd read that somewhere
recently. Must have been for something else!
 
Cheers,
 
Darren

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rob Kirton
Sent: 09 May 2008 15:00
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links


Darren

I'd be highly surprised if a screen reader manages to read CSS.  Most
struggle with HTML

-- 
Regards

- Rob 

Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk
Linking in with others : http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton


2008/5/9 Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


The content:after pseudo class can be used to seperate the links with a
vertical bar. 
 
It wont work in Internet Explorer but I believe it will still work with
screen readers (although at this point in time I cannot find anything that
confirms this).
 
That said, it's far more logical to just seperate the links using a list, as
Stuart has already stated.
 
Regards,
 


Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darren West
Sent: 09 May 2008 12:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links


The reason for putting the character there in the first place is
explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links.

It is my understanding that the fact that they are seperate links is what
distinguishes between links ...


Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred
character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is
not used for anything else and can't be confused.

Prefered to a list?



2008/5/9 Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


The reason for putting the character there in the first place is
explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links.

Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred
character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is
not used for anything else and can't be confused.

Border is, of course, purely presentational and of no use whatsoever to
screen-readers and, therefore, does not fulfill accessibility
requirements.



On Fri, May 9, 2008 7:31 am, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
 The most common separator used in such circumstances ... is the
 vertical bar...whilst it is quite wordy

 That's the reason why I've started *not* to use it anymore. I'm using
 borders instead and add the class last to the last list element to
 apply no borders at all.

 Whilst a border is slightly higher than a vertical bar it avoids
 screenreaders to go

 home vertical bar latest posts vertical bar contact us vertical bar
 sitemap vertical bar 

 Cheers,

 Jens

 The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying
 files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient,
 any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this
 e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to
 copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated
 without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received
 this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail
 or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the
 accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or
 attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax
 does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or
 attached files.


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RE: [WSG] Reset the styles on a submit button with CSS

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Paul,

You could put them in two separate containers/divs and give the one
containing the form elements you want to style an id.
Doesn't have to be a div though. You could use a list, or anything else that
is containing the form inputs you want to style.

For example:
div id=cont1
input /
input /
input /
/div
input submit /

Then use:

#cont1 input {background:#000; color:#FFF;}

That way the submit button wont be affected. 

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: 06 May 2008 13:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Reset the styles on a submit button with CSS

Hi all,

Here's an odd one I can't seem to solve. I had to style all input fields in
a form with a black background, white text. Rather than give them a class,
I've just given all inputs this styling

EG: input {background:#000; color:#FFF;}

My issue is that the submit buttons now have this styling also in certain
browsers. I'd like to give them a class and set them back to their original
look, but background:none; doesn't work. Is there a way of doing this does
anyone know?

I am aware that I could give every field a class and add the black
background to that, but I'd like to do it the other way around and only have
a class for the buttons, less classy!

Any ideas?


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RE: [WSG] IE7 - content not displaying

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi James,
 
I'm not sure but it may be because of the extra /li's here:
div id=idx-content-bottom

ul class=lower01

  li class=promo-section-01 img src=images/delete-lower.gif /

h3Ask an Expert/h3

Need help? We can help answer your questions! a
href=null.htmlSend us an email/a /li


  li class=promo-section-02img src=images/delete-lower2.gif /

h3National Register/h3

We manage the nomination process for listing WI Properties.. a
href=null.htmlLearn more /a /li

  /li

  li class=promo-section-03img src=images/delete-lower3.gif /

h3Share your project!/h3


John Doe is restoring his 1918 Victorian, a href=mull.htmlview
his project/a and share yours! /li

  /li

/ul

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893



  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Likely, James A.
Sent: 22 April 2008 14:20
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] IE7 - content not displaying



Hello, 

I am in the process of coding some templates for a client. Of course,
everything works well in Firefox, but IE7 is giving me some problems. 

The footer on the page is not appearing, but the space that it is meant to
hold the footer is present.  I know about the peek-a-boo effect for IE, but
this does not seem to be the case. Does any one have any suggestions on how
to fix this?

Example:  http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/version2/research.php
http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/version2/research.php 

Thanks for the help. 

James 



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RE: [WSG] a target= blank not part of xhtml

[Darren Lovelock]

I agree, where possible, you shouldnt make decisions for your visitors.
Users will return to a website using the back button if they want to. 
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Maben
Sent: 27 March 2008 16:01
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a target= blank not part of xhtml



On Mar 27, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Michael Horowitz wrote:


I can't imagine its better practice to replace it with javascript.


No, better practice is to avoid foisting new windows on users altogether.

(IMHO - but I don't think I'm alone...)

Andrew






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RE: [WSG] strong element being more semantical and accessible for required field

[Darren Lovelock]

I believe a more semantically correct method would be to use strong:

label for=details-email
Email: strong(Required)/strong
/label 

Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: 26 February 2008 00:02
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] strong element being more semantical and accessible for
required field

 On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
 Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:37 PM
 To: Web Standards Group
 Subject: Re: [WSG] strong element being more semantical and accessible 
 for required field
 
  I can't speak for screen readers since I've never used one my self...
  But would there be any reason you couldn't do both and please the 
  client and the screen reader(assuming it does help them)? a simple
  strong* First Name/strong
 
  Just something I thought of :)
 
 Interesting discussion. You could also use more meaningful flags like 
 the word Required instead of * and style this content in red/bold. 
 This means that everyone, including screen reader users understand the 
 implications much more clearly (as long as this information is 
 included inside the label element.
 
 For example:
 
 label for=details-email
 Email span class=required(Required)/span:
 /label

What about using a fieldset with *legend* if the required fields can be
grouped together.
Because the legend (required fields) would be read aloud before each label.


--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com







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RE: [WSG] Problem with folio online | IE

[Darren Lovelock]

Hi Laert Jansen,
 
Which IE are you using? IE7 uses different font rendering (ClearType), which
makes fonts slightly larger and more bold.
 
Try using em's. 1em is the equivalent of 16px. You can also use ems to 1
decimal place if you want to be more precise.
 
e.g. h1 { font-size: 1em; }
 
p { font-size: .8em; }
 
Kind regards,
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Laert Jansen
Sent: 20 February 2008 16:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Problem with folio online | IE


I don´t know what´s going on but using % the text looks much bigger in IE..


On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




On 2/20/08, Laert Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don´t understand why is the text frozen in IE and not in FF



you are using px for your font size.  try using em or %. 

dwain


-- 
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky 
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-- 
Laert Jansen
www.laertjansen.com

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RE: [WSG] display differences firefox ie 7.0

[Darren Lovelock]

If you place text-align: center; on the body tag in the CSS and then margin:
auto; on the first 'container' divider then the web page should be
centralised in Firefox and IE.
 
Like this:
 
body { text-align: center; }
#container { width: 960px; margin: auto; } 
 
HTH
 
Darren Lovelock
Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas Thomassen
Sent: 07 February 2008 07:40
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] display differences firefox ie 7.0


On having Layout is a good article that gives good insight to most of IE's
quirks: http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

- Original Message - 
From: Joe Ortenzi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] display differences firefox ie 7.0

MH: 

Someone earlier this week sent a very good presentation that explained a lot
of the problems you are facing. It is quite a long presentation (more of a
lesson really!) but it answers a lot of the problems you are having. There
are also a collection of great links sprinkled through that we could all
find useful in our bookmarks list. 

give it a whirl!

http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/

Joe

On Feb 6 2008, at 02:10, Michael Horowitz wrote:


I've noticed that my site is centered it ie 7.0 but left justified in
firefox http://terrorfreeamerica.us/.  What are the issues and workarounds
to keep them in sync. In this case I would like it centered both ways but I
would love to know how to do it either way.

Thanks

-- 
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



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Joe Ortenzi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.joiz.com



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RE: [WSG] repeat x and repeat y

[Darren Lovelock]

Two books I would recommend -

Designing with Web Standards - Jeffrey Zeldman
The Art  Science of CSS - Sitepoint 

Hope this helps :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: 06 February 2008 16:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] repeat x and repeat y

Michael Horowitz wrote:
 I again thank everyone for all the help.  Any good resources for 
 repeat x and repeat y

 Also would love suggestions for new books to buy.



See:

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#background-properties
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=GoodBooks

~dL


--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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