[WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Dreamweaver' common set of JS for rollover images are using 'onmouseover' i e. MM_swapImage JS. I wanted to make it more accessible by using 'onfocus=' but I do not know how to work around it so that the JS will work. Does anyone know where I could get some resources on this? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Hi Kristof I tried doing that in the html but the JS fails to work. I think I need to change the JS itself but I do not know how to. These are the common image JS DW which I have in my JS file.
function MM_preloadImages() { //v3.0 var d=document; if(d.images){ if(!d.MM_p) d.MM_p=new Array(); var i,j=d.MM_p.length,a=MM_preloadImages.arguments; for(i=0; ia.length; i++) if (a[i].indexOf("#")!=0){ d.MM_p[j]=new Image; d.MM_p[j++].src="">}
function MM_swapImgRestore() { //v3.0 var i,x,a=document.MM_sr; for(i=0;aia.length(x=a[i])x.oSrc;i++) x.src="">}
function MM_findObj(n, d) { //v4.01 var p,i,x; if(!d) d=document; if((p=n.indexOf("?"))0parent.frames.length) { d=parent.frames[n.substring(p+1)].document; n=n.substring(0,p);} if(!(x=d[n])d.all) x=d.all[n]; for (i=0;!xid.forms.length;i++) x=d.forms[i][n]; for(i=0;!xd.layersid.layers.length;i++) x=MM_findObj(n,d.layers[i].document); if(!x d.getElementById) x=d.getElementById(n); return x;}
function MM_swapImage() { //v3.0 var i,j=0,x,a=MM_swapImage.arguments; document.MM_sr=new Array; for(i=0;i(a.length-2);i+=3) if ((x=MM_findObj(a[i]))!=null){document.MM_sr[j++]=x; if(!x.oSrc) x.oSrc=x.src; x.src="">}
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 04/18/04 22:04:18
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Jaime Wong wrote:
Dreamweaver' common set of JS for rollover images are using 'onmouseover' i
e. MM_swapImage JS.
I wanted to make it more accessible by using 's _javascript_ here]
DW puts the straight into the html, right?
Then this is what you've got:
This is what you need to add:
I guess that should work.
--
Kristof
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
.
RE: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Just like what you see here http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html:)
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 04/19/04 07:44:14
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Heya Jaime,
define multi rollovers?
Benjamin
Hi Benjamin
What is ecma?
Can what you proposed be used for multi-rollovers?
I could use Meyer's
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html
but not sure if it is stable enough for projects.
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 04/18/04 22:07:19
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
The only way I can think of doing it off the top of my head is to use some
ecma and css
onState"
offState"
..onState{
background: url(yourimageslocation/btn_onState.gif) no-repeat top left
}
..offState{
background: url(yourimageslocation/btn_offState.gif) no-repeat top left
}
and change the background image
-Original Message-----
From: Jaime Wong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 8:59 PM
To: WSG - CSS List
Subject: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Dreamweaver' common set of JS for rollover images are using
'onmouseover' i
e. MM_swapImage JS.
I wanted to make it more accessible by using ' but I do not know
how to work around it so that the JS will work.
Does anyone know where I could get some resources on this?
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
.
Benjamin
Life through a polaroid
www.lifethroughapolaroid.com
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
Re: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible
Trying to conform to Priority 2 for that. I must have done something wrong with the JS in my html. I'll try again. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 04/19/04 04:24:10 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Making Dreamweaver's Rollover JS accessible Jaime Wong wrote: Hi Kristof I tried doing that in the html but the JS fails to work. I think I need to change the JS itself but I do not know how to. These are the common image JS DW which I have in my JS file. Odd, I just tried it in my copy of DW and it worked. Are you shure you're not expecting too much? The only extra "accesability" you'll gain is that when you use the tab key to select links. Tab, first link focussed, the image changes to the 'over' state, tab, it goes back to the 'normal' state, next image changes, ... That's it. If that didn't happening for you, you probably got it wrong. If that ain't enough, well what can I say ... rollovers are boring? -- Kristof * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * .
Re: [WSG] Pseudo-classes - Links - Weird issues
Forgot to ask.. if lets say a{}, a:link {}, a:visited {}, a:hover {} and a:active {} share the same style with the exception of a:hover {} and a:active {} having a minor differences. Can a:link {} anda:visited {} be excluded?
Example: -
a {color: #90AAAB;text-decoration: none;border-bottom: 1px dashed #CC9900; }
a:hover, a:active{
color: #4A8393;
border-bottom: none;}
Since a{} is included on the above, wouldn't that comprises of a:link {} and a:visited {} as well? So is it possible toleavethose 2 out?
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 04/17/04 09:20:23
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Pseudo-classes - Links - Weird issues
Jamie,
This is hard to answer as we cannot see your html. The class could be inside
or outside the 'a' element, which will affect the way you set up your
selector.
INSIDE THE 'A' ELEMENT
Assuming that your class was inside the 'a' element like this:
a href="" class="poo"text here/a
The correct markup would be:
a.poo:link {}
a.poo:visited {}
a.poo:hover {}
a.poo:active {}
Note that the class comes directly after the element (in this case the 'a').
The pseudo-classes (eg 'hover'), which do not exist in the document tree,
come after the class. This would be the same for ID.
OUTSIDE THE 'A' ELEMENT
However, if your class was outside the 'a' element like this:
p class="poo"a href=""text here/a/p
Then one way to mark the a element would be:
..poo a:link { }
..poo a:visited { }
..poo a:hover { }
..poo a:active { }
Although, you could also use the following to be more specific:
p.poo a:link { }
p.poo a:visited { }
p.poo a:hover { }
p.poo a:active { }
The best way to learn where to place your classes is to think of the
document tree and work down from the top - starting with the body. Then you
will know how to mark up your selectors correctly. More on that here:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_tree.htm
Whenever I get stuck I draw a quick little document tree and it immediately
become clear how to structure the relevant selector.
Also worth noting, link and link pseudo class selectors should always appear
in your style sheet in the following order. If your hover and active states
don't appear to be working, this may be the cause.
a{}
a:link {}
a:visited {}
a:hover {}
a:active {}
The best way I find to remember this is to think of love-hate, or
'LoVeHAte'. Very apt, as many of us have a love-hate relationship with
pseudo selectors.:)
Russ
I must have overlooked something but I have looked trough the CSS many times
and can't find anything wrong with it. Facing problems with :hover for one
of the class when it worked for the rest.
By the way how do the rest of you style your links? (for Class not ID)
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
.
[WSG] Unwanted Visitors
I think this is OT. Please forgive me. Today I went to check my site statistic for fun and have a look at the Links from an external page (other web sites except search engines). I saw a couple of suspicious links being displayed theresuch as companies who has nothing to do with web designing and adult sites. There is only one adult site being displayed in Feb and for the month of March..the number of unwelcomed links shoot up to at least 10. Why is that so? Am I being used for something I do not know of? Not knowledgeable in this site statistic area. Should I just ignore? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
"There's a big difference between expecting someone to update their antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer platform.What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought that Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser that works to standards." Leo I never say anything about not buying a Mac. I feel that you have misread/misinterpreted my meanings. What I am saying is that there are many sites that hide stylesheets from NS4x because the style breaks in the browser. I was using NS4 as an exampleand the main topic here is about - To hide OR not to hide stylesheets - as Sarah stated that she would prefer to see a broken style rather than no style at all (i.e. just contents). Never once did I mention anything about shutting down the whole Mac computer platform. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/25/04 05:48:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers There are many sites out there (be it professional or personal sites) hiding stylesheets from older browsers for e.g. the most common is Netscape 4x. Jamie There's a big difference between expecting someone to update their antiquated bowser, and shutting out the whole Mac computer platform. What you're telling us Mac people is that we shouldn't have bought that Mac because a PC dominant $Microsoft company can't make a browser that works to standards.It's just plain bull crap. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * .
Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
I know... but I can't get around the Mac IE bugs and it makes things even harder as I do not have a Mac to check against those bugs. Rather Mac IE and NS users see a plain text page than a broken design page. So got to hide the styles till I am able to buy me a Mac but by that time maybe Mac IE will no longer be used :D With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/24/04 07:22:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers I am thinking of hiding my stylesheets from Mac IE and Netscape Jamie Agrr... You'd be leaving most of us creative people out in the cold! Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
Hmm your comment is interesting. Interesting as in it makes me want to rethink the need to hide stylesheets or not to. There are many sites out there (be it professional or personal sites) hiding stylesheets from older browsers for e.g. the most common is Netscape 4x. Wouldn't Netscape 4x users feel the same way as you then? I do understand that some people prefer to stick to whatever browser they are using even if it is way outdated. But the problem here is trying to please everyonewhich is impossible isn t it? For Mac IE5 users who visited my site if they enter through the domain there is no way that they can find the navigation to enter the site because the layout is broken to them. I am only stating from the pictures I have seen sent by Mac IE5 users so I do not know if there is a way to find the navigation to enter the site for sure. So the question is to hide stylesheets or not to? I chose to hide it till I find a way to work around those bugs. These are just my personal opinions. Maybe the experts can help shed some lights in whether to hide stylesheets or not :) With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/25/04 01:27:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers I know... but I can't get around the Mac IE bugs and it makes things even harder as I do not have a Mac to check against those bugs. Rather Mac IE and NS users see a plain text page than a broken design page. So got to hide the styles till I am able to buy me a Mac but by that time maybe Mac IE will no longer be used :D As a Mac user, I would much rather see a buggy style sheet than no style sheet at all. If you were to leave a way to contact you and I came across your site with that in place, you would get an email complaining about it. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/24/04 07:22:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers I am thinking of hiding my stylesheets from Mac IE and Netscape Jamie Agrr... You'd be leaving most of us creative people out in the cold! Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Next Sydney meeting - a fantastic guest presenter
Wish I could just fly to Sydney right away but I can't :( We don't get these type of presentation here!!! *envy envy* Having videos for the meetings would be great for foreign countries' members :) I understand the time needed to edit and convert the videos and server space etc. I would be more than happy to help in any ways if WSG is thinking of having this video service as long as I do not get to miss out all the goodies from down under from up here! With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/19/04 00:56:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Next Sydney meeting - a fantastic guest presenter Hmmm yes, we have access to three (mini) DV cameras that I know of. Processing all that video will be a bit of a pain though. We'll probably do an hour with David so it may not be very practical, and I don't really want to serve that much video from my server. Maybe someone in Sydney can volunteer to take the tape, edit it down to some key demo points (5-10 mins) and convert it to QuickTime and Windows Media. I really won't have the time to do this. Thanks for the suggestion. We'll let you know. P Anybody got a DV-Cam? Maybe for meetings we could video guest speakers (with their permission of course), type up transcripts and post both to the website along with their comments. I think this is just too important to let go for those who aren't in Sydney (which, luckily, I am!) and for the visually-abled David's Top 50 list would have much more an impact with the accompanying video. Just an idea... -- tim * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
Thanks Justin. Just got my email set up after reformatting my computer. Sorry for this late reply.
I have just done a search on couple of ways to hide stylesheets from certain browsers.
I am thinking of hiding my stylesheets from Mac IE and Netscape as well as PC Netscape 4-5 or 6andanything before IE5.5but can't seem to find the import method for it.
Any good sites with a collection of stylesheets import methods?
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/18/04 22:42:10
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
the way it works is you include your stylesheet using the @import method.
anything that does not support that method will not see the stylesheet
(NN4, IE3/4, etc.). Since they do not see the stylesheet, then anything
that has display: none applied to it will show up.
also, you can use the media setting to tell which devices to use the
stylesheet, but I am not sure of the reliability beyond screen, print,
and all.
-
Jeremy Flint
www.jeremyflint.com
Jaime Wong wrote:
Thanks for all the feedbacks.
My next question is how did they make the message show in certain browsers?
If it is _javascript_ or any other scripts, are there any good source for it?
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/18/04 07:23:33
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
as well as the media setting for the stylesheet "screen, print, etc"
-
Jeremy Flint
www.jeremyflint.com
Jeremy Flint wrote:
would it also depend on the method used to include the stylesheet:
@import vs. link?
russ weakley wrote:
Nate,
First of all, that wasn¹t my technique, just the one used by the site
mentioned by Jaime.
A good articles on hiding content is Joe Clark's:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/
This article details the difference between "display: none" and "display:
hidden".
"It seems clear that any element given a style of display: none should
not
be rendered, read, or manifested at all by any device in any
modality. Hal,
IBM Home Page Reader, OutSpoken, and Window-Eyes are behaving properly
under this interpretation, while Jaws is misbehaving."
Joe Clark's article is referring to hiding heading content, not
messages at
the top of the page, but the points are still relevant.
Russ
There's actually a good reason for this difference. (I can't find the
reference right now, but I think it's in Zeldman's Designing With Web
Standards.) Some screenreaders (Jaws?) observe the display:none CSS
rule, even though it's a visual thing -- therefore, the rule Jeremy
cited won't be accessed in that context, whereas Russ' rule will.
Neither one is wrong, it's just important to know to whom you're
supplying the message...
Nate
.: Nate Cook : 773 405 4073 : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : www.natecook.com :.
On Mar 17, 2004, at 8:17 AM, Jeremy Flint wrote:
you can also use
.hide {
display: none
}
div class="hide"Message to non-stylesheet browsers/div
russ weakley wrote:
These guys use the following CSS rule:
.hide {
height: 0;
width: 0;
overflow: hidden;
position: absolute;
}
HTML:
div class="hide"
p
If you are reading this on a mobile device browser or a text browser,
you
can safely a href=""
skip to the content/a.
...
Russ
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
Thanks
Russ
---
Russ Weakley
Max Design
Phone: (02) 9410 2521
Mobile: 0403 433 980
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.maxdesign.com.au
---
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
[WSG] Hiding styles message to certain browsers
How do I provide a message to users of selected browsers which I hid my stylesheets from like for e.g. http://www.rad-e8.com/ does it? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad?
Go to (Tools » Internet Options » Temporary Internet Files » Settings) and select Every visit to page for your temp files settings in your IE to see the flickerings. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/16/04 09:43:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad? The problem with the CSS sprites solution that Matthias posted is that it I went to the link posted (not the pixy one - the alistapart one) and there was no flicker. Nor did it see that background-position was being used. Then, after reading this last post, I went to the pixy link (which does use background-position). No flicker there either. I'm using IE 6. Did I miss something ?? Gary Menzel Web Development Manager IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000 PH: 07 333 44 828 FX: 07 3834 0828 If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient of this email you are prohibited by law from dealing with or relying on the email or any file attachments. This prohibition includes reading, printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, storing or in any other way dealing or acting in reliance on the information. If you have received this email in error, we request you contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated with notifying ABN AMRO Morgans. This email is confidential and may contain privileged client information. ABN AMRO Morgans has taken reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but accepts no liability for materials transmitted. Materials may also be transmitted without the knowledge of ABN AMRO Morgans. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited its directors and employees do xø ABN AMRO Morgans Limited (ABN 49 010 669 726 AFSL 235410) A Participant of ASX Group * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad?
Thanks for all those links :) But what I am actually asking here are comments on the Pixy's Rollover update if it is good or bad to use it because of the extra div for each navigation. And if there are limitations to its usage for e.g. td in calendars. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/16/04 09:31:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad? Hello :) The problem with the CSS sprites solution that Matthias posted is that it will ALLWAYS cause IE6 to flicker. This is because IE6 doesn't like the background-position:___ declaration very much. (well, not at all, actually). To get a full run down on IE6's background flicker quirks and possible workaraounds, see the following link: http://www.fivesevensix.com/studies/ie6flicker/ Andrew. From: Matthias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:13:14 +0100 Hi! First of all: I'm one of those who switched from css-f to this list. As a little introduction: I'm based in Berlin/Germany and develop (design+code) websites in my sparetime. The standards-virus got me o ne year ago, especially CSS. I love it. :-) So is this fix good or bad and if there are better fix around somewhere which I have yet to discover :) http://www.pixy.cz/blogg/clanky/cssnopreloadrollovers/update.html The following article might be what you're looking for: http://alistapart.com/articles/sprites/ Dave Shea explains a method of using ONE image for a whole set of navigational elements. All you need is a identifier (id, class or may the correct parse tree) as a hook for the positioned image. Impressive technique! Regards! -- Matthias http://www.kronn.de * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad?
Didn't the new pixy update requires extra div because it is using background colours to fix the problem? I am not using this new pixy update now. I am using the old pixy at the moment. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/17/04 00:08:57 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad? I don't think you have to have an extra div for each niviation item? If you are using an unordered list, you can apply the background image to the list item. see dan cedarholm's Accissible Image Tabs at www.simplebits.com for an example --jeremy flint www.jeremyflint.com Jaime Wong wrote: Thanks for all those links :) But what I am actually asking here are comments on the Pixy's Rollover update if it is good or bad to use it because of the extra div for each navigation. And if there are limitations to its usage for e.g. td in calendars. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/16/04 09:31:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad? Hello :) The problem with the CSS sprites solution that Matthias posted is that it will ALLWAYS cause IE6 to flicker. This is because IE6 doesn't like the background-position:___ declaration very much. (well, not at all, actually). To get a full run down on IE6's background flicker quirks and possible workaraounds, see the following link: http://www.fivesevensix.com/studies/ie6flicker/ Andrew. From: Matthias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixy's Rollover IE Flicker Fix - Good or bad? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:13:14 +0100 Hi! First of all: I'm one of those who switched from css-f to this list. As a little introduction: I'm based in Berlin/Germany and develop (design+code) websites in my sparetime. The standards-virus got me o ne year ago, especially CSS. I love it. :-) So is this fix good or bad and if there are better fix around somewhere which I have yet to discover :) http://www.pixy.cz/blogg/clanky/cssnopreloadrollovers/update.html The following article might be what you're looking for: http://alistapart.com/articles/sprites/ Dave Shea explains a method of using ONE image for a whole set of navigational elements. All you need is a identifier (id, class or may the correct parse tree) as a hook for the positioned image. Impressive technique! Regards! -- Matthias http://www.kronn.de * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * -- Jeremy Flint www.jeremyflint.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line
I use these forsome fancy header.
.icon-Gal{background-image: url(icon_gal.gif);background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: 125px;padding-top: 1em;border-bottom: 1px dotted #448687;padding-left: 3px;}
You can preview it at this page http://www.sodesires.com/about - the headers on the left column.
OR
.blog-EntryDateHeader{font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 1.3em;font-weight: bold;color: #BBB8A0;letter-spacing: 2px;text-transform: capitalize;padding-left: 50px;background-image: url(rule_entries.gif);background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: left bottom;}
This is the Entry's date header at http://www.sodesires.com/weblog
Hope it helps in giving you more ideas. Not sure if it is a good way though because I normally just play around with my css and so happens that this works.
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/13/04 13:21:02
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line
Maureen,
The main question would be this; do you want the logo to be included on the
page as essential content or do you see it as part of the presentation - if
it is the latter, then you are probably best off putting it inside the CSS
rather than on the page.
Once this decision is made, there are many way to achieve the result you
need. One way would be to place the logo as a background image inside the
div and align it to the right.
Another way would be to place the logo inside the h1 but wrap it in a span
and set the span to float right.
Here are some examples in action for you - the first uses an inline image -
the second uses a background image.
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/maureen/
HTH
Russ
Hi - I have been trying to create a div header with background colour,
border etc that has text (3 words) on the left and a logo on the same line
but sitting on the right and I can't seem to get it right. I tried including
the logo inside the h1 tags and this worked except for the position of the
logo and I don't think that using repeated "nbsp" to move it across to the
right is the correct way to do it.
The logo is approx 50 x 48and my code for the header is:
#header{
background-color: #ffd2cd;
margin: 20px;
height: 60px;
border: 1px solid #666;
padding: 0 15px 10px 15px;
}
I would appreciate any help you can give.
Regards Maureen
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
.
[WSG] Roll-Over demo stability
I am trying out rollovers w/o JavaScripts but I notice that in Opera 7, it
flickers.
The below CSS is to give me the flexibility to use image rollovers or for
showing an invisible image upon hovering certain text. This is for my weblog
entries so I do not want to use image background.
.divHover
{
text-align : center;
font-weight : bold;
}
.divHover a:hover
{
background-color : transparent;
}
.divHover a span,
.divHover a:hover span.divHover-before
{
display: none;
padding: 5px;
}
.divHover a:hover span,
.divHover a span.divHover-before
{
display: block;
}
Demo page at http://www.sodesires.com/weblog/archives/11.html
Any comments if this is a correct way or if there are even better way to
achieve the 2 targeted results I want i.e. the flexibility to use image
rollovers or for showing an invisible image upon hovering certain text? How
to fix the Opera flickering issue? It flickers only when I hover over the
image and not the text.
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line
rem_padding-left should be padding-left!
Don't know how rem_padding-left got there.
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/13/04 18:27:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line
I use these forsome fancy header.
.icon-Gal{background-image: url(icon_gal.gif);background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: 125px;padding-top: 1em;border-bottom: 1px dotted #448687;rem_padding-left: 3px;}
You can preview it at this page http://www.sodesires.com/about - the headers on the left column.
OR
.blog-EntryDateHeader{font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 1.3em;font-weight: bold;color: #BBB8A0;letter-spacing: 2px;text-transform: capitalize;rem_padding-left: 50px;background-image: url(rule_entries.gif);background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: left bottom;}
This is the Entry's date header at http://www.sodesires.com/weblog
Hope it helps in giving you more ideas. Not sure if it is a good way though because I normally just play around with my css and so happens that this works.
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/13/04 13:21:02
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line
Maureen,
The main question would be this; do you want the logo to be included on the
page as essential content or do you see it as part of the presentation - if
it is the latter, then you are probably best off putting it inside the CSS
rather than on the page.
Once this decision is made, there are many way to achieve the result you
need. One way would be to place the logo as a background image inside the
div and align it to the right.
Another way would be to place the logo inside the h1 but wrap it in a span
and set the span to float right.
Here are some examples in action for you - the first uses an inline image -
the second uses a background image.
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/maureen/
HTH
Russ
Hi - I have been trying to create a div header with background colour,
border etc that has text (3 words) on the left and a logo on the same line
but sitting on the right and I can't seem to get it right. I tried including
the logo inside the h1 tags and this worked except for the position of the
logo and I don't think that using repeated "nbsp" to move it across to the
right is the correct way to do it.
The logo is approx 50 x 48and my code for the header is:
#header{
background-color: #ffd2cd;
margin: 20px;
height: 60px;
border: 1px solid #666;
padding: 0 15px 10px 15px;
}
I would appreciate any help you can give.
Regards Maureen
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
.
[WSG] Overcoming Rejections
What will be the most appropriate way to overcome rejections from clients or bosses when it comes to implementation of site with CSS instead of tables. Rejection such as browser compatibility saying that no worries about that when using tables for layout even when explanations have been given. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line
Whichlink is that?Top navigation? A friend sent me a screenshot before on his macIE and I know how horrible it is...Irather not look at them lol. I know the contents that is flushed to theextreme right has got to do withfloats but for the navigation (menu)at the top, I have no idea why it is not showing as inline. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/14/04 07:01:53 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] text and graphic on one line Jamie from someone in this list (sorry I forgot who but he's kind enough to let me know) told me thatsite works in Safari for Mac I sent you that message.The link to the sitemap was broken in IE Mac but not in Safari. This probably means that IE is choking on the link's syntax.It's probably not a cross-platform issue. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
Re: [WSG] Eric Meyer's Pure CSS pop ups
Thanks for all the tips. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~
Re: [WSG] Eric Meyer's Pure CSS pop ups
Does anyone use this technique http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.htmlin their website for image rollovers not necessary only for menu? I admit i am in my dense moment now and can't seem to understand the write up on the above mentioned site. Looking at the codes in the page doesn't help much too. Need a simpledemo if someone has them :) With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/12/04 17:18:46 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Eric Meyer's Pure CSS pop ups El vie, 12-03-2004 a las 08:51, Jaime Wong escribió: I feel like trying out Eric's Pure CSS pop up technique http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html but the question is if it is viable to use it instead of _javascript_. Does anyone know which browser does not work with it? Hi Jaime, as the method relies on using :hover on non-a elements, it won't work with IE out-of-the-box, however you could use it together with the whatever:hover technique or even the IE7 engine. That should do the trick. http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
[WSG] Eric Meyer's Pure CSS pop ups
I feel like trying out Eric's Pure CSS pop up technique http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html but the question is if it is viable to use it instead of javascript. Does anyone know which browser does not work with it? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE
Wowthe list sure is active during weekdays! Sorry just got around checking my list mail. I am not behind a firewall at all and did not use any programs such as firewall. If the site is showing/working for you guys then I guess the problem is with my computer. I will not be so worried then and will get mycom fixed! Thanks for all who commented on this topic! With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/09/04 08:46:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE You aren't by chance running any privacy software, such as the feature included with Zone Alarm's new firewall, are you?I had an issue with a Dell laptop at work (XP Pro) with the exact same script...turned out to be the firewall privacy feature restricting it.Drove me nuts trying to figure it out, cursing M$ of course. G MD On Mar 8, 2004, at 14:21, Jaime Wong wrote: Tried setting IE privacy to low and it still didn't work :/ With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~
Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
I think I am a lil late tocontribute here but I would like to say that I agree with Justin. Forums are a good tool for organising topics but for some who are too busy totake the trouble to log into forums and check the posts, it is a turn off. I would prefer for the list to remain as it is now.At least I can take my time to read the mails when I have the time to do it. The only downside is that mailing list is thatit is hard to organise it tospecific folders. I have a folder for WSG but90% of the mail ended up in my inbox instead because the "from field" is actually using the sender's name. About having different categories of topics, I would go for it only if I am sure that those mails would go to the folders I specify..If not, it would be too confusing for me and I would not know where to start reading from. Lastly I want to say that I love WSG! People are helpful and although it is not a huge list, it doesn't matter. What matters most is the culture/attitude behind the list members. That is the only thing that makes me stay in the list and not to be shy/afraid to show my dumb side when it comes to issue I am unsure of. In fact, I would say that WSG has the best attitude so far compared to other lists. To Russ and Peter...you guys did a great job in maintaining the spirit! With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/10/04 11:59:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 02:21PM, Paul Ross wrote: Having said that - when we get to 1,000 members I guess something will have to be done or the success of the list could implode in on itself and the noise traffic become too much to handle. I would suggest that you think of switching to a forum based website much like the excellent http://forums.australianinfront.com.au/Default.aspx As soon as lists move to forums, I stop posting, stop reading, and stop helping, as do many others.Web browser-based discussion lists are difficult, slow and tedious at the best of times, which is the complete opposite of mail and news groups, which were *designed especially* for threading, replies and message based discussion. Everything related to discussion happens faster and easier with a mail client than it does with a browser. Browser-based discussion has one positive; that being the fact that new subscribers can read old posts and search for topics before posting. This of course can easily be overcome with web-based archives of email lists (which is common anyway). --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
Re: [WSG] Lists weird br / requirement
Just a quick question Russ to make sure I understand better. Calendars and events (with dates and venue) or even for e.g. certain competition results (with points) would be more suitable to be done with tables rather than CSS right? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/10/04 04:29:58 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Lists weird requirement Frank, I completely agree with Tonico. Many people getting into web standards assume that it is based on removing tables. This is incorrect. There are times and places for tables. However, one of the main aims of web standards is to make your content more accessible to devices and users. This means choosing the most appropriate html elements for your content - not just for modern browsers but for all devices. In pure terms, using tables for positioning content on the page, or layout is semantically incorrect as it is using the table element for something it was not intended. However, tables are designed for displaying tabular data. Even more important, tables have a range of accessibility features that allow you to make this tabular data accessible to a wide range of users. The most common ones are: summary caption thead and tbody id and headers There is also scope=col and scope=row, but these are as well supported by modern browsers (my opinion only). The article I wrote on definition lists (linked to a few posts back) includes an example of a definition list styled to look like a table. This was simply to show how a simple definition list could be styled to look radically different to the default list style. It was NOT trying to encourage people to replace tabular data with definition lists. So, how do you choose when to use a list, a definition list or a table? Experience helps, but it also comes down to thinking through the purpose of your content before you mark it up. You should ask yourself questions like: If I mark up this content, how will this work in browsers without style sheets, text-based browsers, screen readers? How will it look to Google? What is the best way I can display this particular section of content so blind users can access it? If the content involves simple couplets of information, then a definition list may be appropriate. If the content requires a series of columns related to headings or is obviously tabular data, then tables are much more appropriate. A final note on the article that Tonico mentions: (http://www.ferg.org/section508/accessible_tables.html#contents_item_5) is It is an excellent read, but I would skip the section on Visible formatting. Some of the methods mentioned are semantically incorrect (use additional table cells for visually indenting content) and the styling examples could be written in much simpler and more powerful ways using descendant selectors. Russ Frank wrote: Re: tables... I wasn't sure if it was wise to use them here... But as you said, tables were meant for tabular data. Although I would still prefer to use a table-less layout (if it's still considered a wise choice). You would greatly improve accessibilty if you use appropriate table markup for tabular data. See http://www.ferg.org/section508/accessible_tables.html for details. Tonico * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE
Hi Anders I am using the JS from that site where itcan be downloaded. So That script should be inside the file. The problem is that IE used to work and it stopped working suddenly and I do not know why. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/09/04 00:32:55 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE Hi Jaime As it says on http://www.alistapart.com/articles/alternate/ you have to create a cookie, or maybe a session. The function to create the cookie and to the store the chosen stylesheet is showed on the site mention above Regards Anders Ebdrup www.smartpage.dk - Original Message - From: "Jaime Wong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WSG - CSS List" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:07 PM Subject: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE Hi I am not sure if it is appropriate to seek help for some _javascript_ issues with styleswitcher here but I hope someone will be able to help because I have no idea what went wrong all of a sudden. I am using the style switcher at http://www.alistapart com/articles/alternate/ on my site and all of a sudden IE seems to have a problem with it (used to work and no changes has been done with it). It will not remember the selected style and upon every reload, it will switch back to the default style. But when working with dreamweaver, and by using the preview option, the style registers in IE. It only doesn't work when the site goes live. All other browsers are working fine. This is what I have in head link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" href="" / link rel="alternate stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" title= simple" href="" / and in the body.. lia href="" title="Switch to Glass Style" ../images/global/styles/style01_glass.gif" alt="Switch to Glass Style" width="22" height="21" //a/li The script for switcher from above: lia href="" title="Switch to Simple Style" ../images/global/styles/style02_simple.gif" alt="Switch to Simple Style" width="20" height="21" //a/li The script for switcher from above: The _javascript_ is what I downloaded from http://www.alistapart com/articles/alternate/ With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE
Hi Patrick I haveemptied my cache and make sure that IE security lvl is at medium. Can someone with IE kindly go to www.sodesires.com to have a look at the site and try to change the style and see if it remembers the style when you refresh thepage or visit other links from the menu? So sorry for the trouble. If it works for you then something is wrong with my IE. But what I can't understand is why cookies for IE works when I preview in Dreamweaver and not whenit is live? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/09/04 00:53:06 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE Could it be that your Temporary Internet Files cache is full ? Try emptying it...maybe it's not writing out the cookie properly because IE has exceeded its allowed cache limit... (and then forgets to clear it, or at least warn the user) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Jaime Wong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 March 2004 15:08 To: WSG - CSS List Subject: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE Hi I am not sure if it is appropriate to seek help for some _javascript_ issues with styleswitcher here but I hope someone will be able to help because I have no idea what went wrong all of a sudden. I am using the style switcher at http://www.alistapart com/articles/alternate/ on my site and all of a sudden IE seems to have a problem with it (used to work and no changes has been done with it). It will not remember the selected style and upon every reload, it will switch back to the default style. But when working with dreamweaver, and by using the preview option, the style registers in IE. It only doesn't work when the site goes live. All other browsers are working fine. This is what I have in head link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" href="" / link rel="alternate stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen" title= simple" href="" / and in the body.. lia href="" title="Switch to Glass Style" ../images/global/styles/style01_glass.gif" alt="Switch to Glass Style" width="22" height="21" //a/li The script for switcher from above: lia href="" title="Switch to Simple Style" ../images/global/styles/style02_simple.gif" alt="Switch to Simple Style" width="20" height="21" //a/li The script for switcher from above: The _javascript_ is what I downloaded from http://www.alistapart com/articles/alternate/ With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE
Oo never tried Safari yet but it works for mozillla, opera, and used to work in IE! "difference in styles is quite subtle?" Yea couldn't decide on which I prefer so put both up! Your site on the text size works for me. I am thinking if I accidentally change something in the html which I didn't realise but very unlikely because if I did, it wouldn't apply for entire site! As for the _javascript_, I would never touch it because if I do I always ended up killing it so I wouldalways leave it to the JS experts to fine tune for me :P Tried setting IE privacy to low and it still didn't work :/ With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/09/04 02:51:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE Works in Safari 1.2 on a Mac FWIW (though the difference in styles is quite subtle? - I usually make text bright pink while I'm testing just so I know it's working ;-) Ignore my earlier message re _javascript_ file as it's obviously in the right place. On 8 Mar 2004, at 18:08, Jaime Wong wrote: Hi Patrick I haveemptied my cache and make sure that IE security lvl is at medium. Can someone with IE kindly go to www.sodesires.com to have a look at the site and try to change the style and see if it remembers the style when you refresh thepage or visit other links from the menu? So sorry for the trouble. If it works for you then something is wrong with my IE. But what I can't understand is why cookies for IE works when I preview in Dreamweaver and not whenit is live? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE
Yup my site is anti MAc at the moment. Would get to that nightmare part after everything is finally working right with no sudden bug like this style switcher. I really dread fixing it for MAC...last alternative is to use absolute positioning I suppose as someone mentioned in this list before that Mac IE does not work well with floats. Was provided few Mac Css solution sites by some nice people here to look at but still confuse. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/09/04 03:15:36 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Style Switcher and IE Layout breaks in IE 5.2 for Mac OS x and doesn't view at all in Netscape 7 on the same platform. HTH JB On 8 Mar 2004, at 18:08, Jaime Wong wrote: Can someone with IE kindly go to www.sodesires.com to have a look at the site and try to change the style and see if it remembers the style when you refresh thepage or visit other links from the menu? So sorry for the trouble. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
RE: [WSG] Bobby question
Just found this : If the script cannot be made accessible one viable solution is to include a NOSCRIPT tag with alternative and equivalent content and interaction (via a form). What do they mean bythe above? With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/07/04 16:33:41 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Bobby question My next question is for e.g. using the style switcher js from ALA, or whichever js written by programmers for your website. Will you change the all commands tosatisfy the priority even if the script is non-applicable to lynx users? PS: Can you see better now Peter? This just make me realise that with all the concentration for accessibility on websites, I forgot about others :P Good wakeup call. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/07/04 09:54:45 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Bobby question Hi Jaime, Yes it's very important. Many differently-abled people don't use a mouse. They use the keyboard to navigate around a page/site (generally much faster and more efficiently than any mouse user). By using onclick or onmousedown etc. you may be blocking their access to whatever the resource is. Having said that, something like: a href="" target="copyright" will still work ok as the default behaviour of the href will generally be used anyway. Best thing to do is put the mouse under your desk and navigate with the keyboard alone and see what you can and cannot do on your site. Or, go to one of the Public Lynx access sites mentioned on http://www.subir.com/lynx/public_lynx.html with telnet://guest.sailor.lib.md.us/ being a good one. quote On Priority 1 or 2..I forgot which. There is this rule that states that one should not use onclick for _javascript_. The problem is that most programmers uses onclick and other actions that requires mouse. Do you guys try to satisfy this rule? I was thinking if I got to satisfy that rule, this means that I have to mess around with all the _javascript_s. This thought puts me off. /quote Please try to use plain text email for this list as your email colours are very difficult for me (colour-blind) to read. A hint to all. You should (with a decent email client) be able to set it to send palin text only based on the address [EMAIL PROTECTED]. This should throw a warning if you try to send html email. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
RE: [WSG] Bobby question
Thanks Peter for the wonderful explanation :)
I tested it straight away but facing some problem with Strict DTD.
This is what I have in my html
script type="text/_javascript_"var d=new Date();yr=d.getFullYear();if (yr!=2003)document.write("- "+yr);/scriptnoscript- 2004!/noscript
and
script type="text/_javascript_"dT();/scriptnoscriptGMT +8/noscript
This is the errors
Line 224, column 55: character data is not allowed here script type="text/_javascript_"dT();/scriptnoscriptGMT +8/noscript ^Line 683, column 9: document type does not allow element "noscript" here; missing one of "object", "ins", "del", "map", "button" start-tag noscript- 2004!/noscript ^Line 683, column 10: character data is not allowed here noscript- 2004!/noscript
With Regards
Jaime Wong
~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 03/07/04 20:11:50
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Bobby question
Hi Jaime,
A noscript tag is read only when _javascript_ isn't present (except in
Netscape 4 as I recall but may have been Netscape 3 which shows both the
script and the noscript content and this was when it WAS the dominant
browser! Someone may like to check that but I can't be bothered as I never
use it any more).
So you would have something like:
script language="_javascript_" type="text/_javascript_"
!--
document.write("pSomething if JS enabled or even present/p")
//--
/script
noscript
pSomething else if JS not available./p
/noscript
Much like noframes.
A search for noscript on Google brings up everything you need to know in
the first 5 links.
However, for something like onclick this doesn't work. The best thing to do
is test it in Lynx and make sure the default behaviour of the link or button
still works. If you're doing something else with onclick (than a form
element or link) then you may well have to rethink it. Remember, Google (the
worlds biggest blind user) may not be able to follow it if it is
inaccessible so your pages may remain hidden to the world.
As for the other question (below), much the same answer. However, when we do
it, if you don't have _javascript_ turned on, you simply don't get the
styleswitcher links at all as they wouldn't work anyway. If you do have
_javascript_, and you tab to the link and hit enter, the appropriate behaviour
is invoked.
Again, see http://www.gt.nsw.gov.au/ and try throwing the mouse away and
turning _javascript_ off to see what happens.
You just have to think about it carefully as you put it together and then
test the pants off it.
quote
My next question is for e.g. using the style switcher js from ALA, or
whichever js written by programmers for your website. Will you change the
all commands to satisfy the priority even if the script is non-applicable to
lynx users?
PS: Can you see better now Peter? This just make me realise that with all
the concentration for accessibility on websites, I forgot about others :P
Good wakeup call.
/quote
Yes thanks, but plain text beats it every time on a mail list :-)
P
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
.
RE: [WSG] Bobby question
Left these info out.. This page here http://www.sodesires.com/links/index.html is using transitional and the rest using strict. You can have a look at this page http://www.sodesires.com/weblog which is in strict as it has the calendar javascript on it as well. Both DTDs are invalid due to noscript g! I wouldn't even bother to put this in if not for priority one. With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/07/04 20:49:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Bobby question Thanks Peter for the wonderful explanation :) I tested it straight away but facing some problem with Strict DTD. This is what I have in my html script type=text/javascript var d=new Date(); yr=d.getFullYear(); if (yr!=2003) document.write(- +yr); /script noscript- 2004!/noscript and script type=text/javascriptdT();/script noscriptGMT +8/noscript This is the errors Line 224, column 55: character data is not allowed here script type=text/javascriptdT();/scriptnoscriptGMT +8/noscript ^ Line 683, column 9: document type does not allow element noscript here; missing one of object, ins, del, map, button start-tag noscript- 2004!/noscript ^ Line 683, column 10: character data is not allowed here noscript- 2004!/noscript With Regards Jaime Wong ~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/07/04 20:11:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Bobby question Hi Jaime, A noscript tag is read only when JavaScript isn't present (except in Netscape 4 as I recall but may have been Netscape 3 which shows both the script and the noscript content and this was when it WAS the dominant browser! Someone may like to check that but I can't be bothered as I never use it any more). So you would have something like: script language=JavaScript type=text/javascript !-- document.write(pSomething if JS enabled or even present/p) //-- /script noscript pSomething else if JS not available./p /noscript Much like noframes. A search for noscript on Google brings up everything you need to know in the first 5 links. However, for something like onclick this doesn't work. The best thing to do is test it in Lynx and make sure the default behaviour of the link or button still works. If you're doing something else with onclick (than a form element or link) then you may well have to rethink it. Remember, Google (the worlds biggest blind user) may not be able to follow it if it is inaccessible so your pages may remain hidden to the world. As for the other question (below), much the same answer. However, when we do it, if you don't have JavaScript turned on, you simply don't get the styleswitcher links at all as they wouldn't work anyway. If you do have JavaScript, and you tab to the link and hit enter, the appropriate behaviour is invoked. Again, see http://www.gt.nsw.gov.au/ and try throwing the mouse away and turning JavaScript off to see what happens. You just have to think about it carefully as you put it together and then test the pants off it. quote My next question is for e.g. using the style switcher js from ALA, or whichever js written by programmers for your website. Will you change the all commands to satisfy the priority even if the script is non-applicable to lynx users? PS: Can you see better now Peter? This just make me realise that with all the concentration for accessibility on websites, I forgot about others :P Good wakeup call. /quote Yes thanks, but plain text beats it every time on a mail list :-) P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Bobby question
Uh I have a question on bobby too. On Priority 1 or 2..I forgot which. Thereis this rule that states that one should not use onclick for _javascript_. The problem is that most programmers uses onclick and other actions that requires mouse. Do you guys try to satisfy this rule? I was thinking if I got to satisfy that rule, this means that I have to mess around with all the _javascript_s. This thought puts me off. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/06/04 20:07:24 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Bobby question Regarding accreditation, I reckon the best place to start is the Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) which produces (amongst other things) Web Content Accessibility Guidelines. These guidelines have include the all-important checkpoints that are broken into three priorities. Ideally, web developers must achieve priority 1, should achieve priority 2, and may achieve priority 3. The checklist is here: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html There are many professional accessibility experts who can evaluate your site against these checkpoints and provide you with a report - and this could be seen as accreditation (?). They would also provide far more detailed and informative feedback than tools like Alice, Bobby or WAVE. The key would be to read and get a handle on these checkpoints before you start your project so you can implement as much as possible during the process. If you implement checkpoints as part of the workflow, a professional evaluation should only be a confirmation of the checkpoints rather than a daunting list of changes you will have to implement to be "accessible". There are also heaps of resources online that give info about making your site more accessible. An excellent start is here: http://www.skillswap.org/downloads/accessibility.pdf And, there is always this list if you get stuck. I am sure that there are accessibility experts lurking in our ranks that could help out if detailed technical information or assistance was required:) Russ Thanks everyone. I'll certainly check those alternatives out, thanks Russ. I was finding it bit daunting, since the site I am re-coding is based on ASP.NET, and as I am sure many of you know... Microsoft + ASP.NET + web = 666. The client doesn't really know what they want from the recoding. It's an education web site, and they need to obtain certain accreditation as so they can prove their accessibility. Obviously, Bobby was one of the buzzwords they picked up on. I promised W3C validation with an eye on Bobby and 508 etc. (thank goodness I didn't *promise* Bobby validation!) (By the way, if anyone knows of a good way round validating ASP.NET auto-generated code (i.e. asp:datagrid...), then I am very much all ears!!) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
Re: [WSG] Re: font-family : what fonts do you set as default?
Those are some good links. Thanks for sharing. Inormally use"Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif". Seems likeVerdana is the preferredchoice here butI feel that Arial is easier to read because it is not as spread out. Correct me if I am wrong. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 03/06/04 21:19:54 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Re: font-family : what fonts do you set as default? At 19:40 6/3/2004 +1100, Neerav wrote: I usually use "font-family : Verdana, sans-serif;" As I find Verdana to be a very clear, easy to read font that scales well for small text, normal paragraph text and large headings alike A friend send to me this link: http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/index.shtml This a survey reveal the commons fonts presents in the plataforms (Mac, Win and Linux) of users. The combined results is there: http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-CombinedResults.shtml Adobe's sites publish years before a list of fonts presents by default on the various versions of Windows. I think this information off line now. But I get a copy for me and assemble this: http://www.hypergraph.com.br/entulhao/fontesWindows.xls (Yes, I kwon, dumb proprietary file format...) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * .
Re: [WSG] Ways to minimise CSS file
I guess I used couple of IDs for layout of background graphics. The header section has the most. I could however use lesser image slices and that would require lesser CSS id but that also means that the image per slice would be bigger. A question here but not sure if it is off topic..what is the per image size that you would not exceed for backgrounds? With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/03/2004 12:17:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Ways to minimise CSS file JW wrote: enough hmm) but somehow still not very please with the overall file size. I heard about using php but just not very sure about the details. maybe some of you might know? PHP is a server side (well, mostly) programming language. Normally used to create HTML markup, but it can be used to create CSS or generate images on demand. Well planned and written CSS is a better solution than using PHP to send the user dynamically generated stylesheet(s) based on the page they are viewing. It means less CPU load on the server. An exception may be if you have several themese and a theme switcher, but even then, Javascript can do that for you without having to learn a new language (although for me, Javascript would be the new language I'd have to learn *grin*). -- /--\ |Adam Carmichael, A+, 2xMCP (Windows 2000), Cert IV Helpdesk Admin | |[EMAIL PROTECTED] /( _,-,_ )\ _| |_ /,|| | |#1 Computer Services \`/ \'/ _| |_ || | |BSD/UNIX Cisco Network Engineer\ /,\ /,\ / | | _||_ | \--/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
