RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-07 Thread Rachel Radford
I like the newbie questions personally!  This list was a HUGE help to me
when I was learning CSS (it still is a huge help when I come across a
problem) and I would like to think that it hasn't lost that community.  

Recently a member of this list hugely helped one of my colleagues with a
layout issue, which was a great encouragement to him.  

Let's not be too intimidating to new comers, I think it's wonderful when
people want to learn, and a community is an ideal place for guidance and
advice on best practice. The mixture of people make it interesting, I
would certainly would get bored if this list became purely a place for
academic comment on advanced (X)HTML & CSS..!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Erickson, Kevin (DOE)
Sent: 06 August 2008 14:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

Thank you!!! I agree 100%. Nothing is better than trying to find
information from a well rounded group. That is what makes this list so
great! For some one to say they want a newbie level list, tells me they
have not thought it through. We should ask those that don't want to
participate in a subject to delete/ignore it. 

Sincerely,
kevin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:11 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle unselfishly
gets repeated. :)

Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com 



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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-06 Thread Erickson, Kevin (DOE)
Thank you!!! I agree 100%. Nothing is better than trying to find
information from a well rounded group. That is what makes this list so
great! For some one to say they want a newbie level list, tells me they
have not thought it through. We should ask those that don't want to
participate in a subject to delete/ignore it. 

Sincerely,
kevin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:11 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle unselfishly
gets repeated. :)

Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com 



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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-06 Thread Rick Faircloth
Following your construction analogy, people new to standards might know how
to use a nail hammer, but not realize that what's called for in a situation
is a dry-wall hammer.  That's where some guidance even on the tools end
is needed.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Martin
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:38 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> I totally agree which is why I arose the subject in the first place. A
> person interested in the building standards shouldn't expect the building
> standards group to tell them how to use a hammer. Same goes here.
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Stuart Foulstone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> 
> >
> > I have no problem with elementary questions about Web standards.
> >
> > But there are perhaps too many posts about how to write basic HTML mark-up
> > and elementary CSS.  This is especially true when the 'poster' has
> > apparently not even tried to validate it (and, therefore, not seriously
> > tried to solve the problem themselves).
> >
> > Should we not, at least, expect a list contributor to know the basics of
> > HTML and CSS, for example.
> >
> > At the other end of the scale, there are sometimes posts which seem to be
> > more about how to 'work around' Web standards to achieve a particular
> > design rather than DESIGN to Web Standards in the first place (usually a
> > knock-on effect due to graphic designers pretending to be Web designers).
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, August 5, 2008 10:00 pm, Jody Tate wrote:
> >> I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has
> >> seemed
> >> like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial
> >> problems
> >> with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
> >> internet and in books.
> >>
> >> On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for
> >>> helping
> >>> people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
> >>> practice.
> >>> A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners
> >>> and
> >>> advanced, alike.
> >>
> >> If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
> >> standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At
> >> the
> >> university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level
> >> tackle
> >> different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.
> >>
> >> A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
> >> participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help
> >> were
> >> considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
> >> searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.
> >>
> >> I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested,
> >> for
> >> different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
> >> other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
> >> standards themselves.
> >>
> >>> Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as
> >>> its
> >>> mission
> >>> to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as
> >>> CSS,
> >>> is
> >>> mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest
> >>> common
> >>> denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on
> >>> the
> >>> bottom
> >>> are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.
> >>
> >> To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
> >> first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
> >> multiple goals might be acceptable.
> >>
> >> Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
> >> Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
> >> sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another

RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-06 Thread Rick Faircloth
I understand your concern, Stuart.  The list shouldn't become
a "first-responder" to code someone's problem.  But we should be
aware, also, that usually, someone who posts even what seems to be
a rudimentary problem has actually tried to solve it on their own
and is just missing the solution.

Those new to CSS and other web standards tools will often be reluctant
to post their own attempts to code a solution and will just ask for
input on a solution.

It's a fine line to walk, but we have to be careful not to "read behind
the post" and assume that someone is just asking others to do their work
for them.

Rick

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart
Foulstone
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:09 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> 
> I have no problem with elementary questions about Web standards.
> 
> But there are perhaps too many posts about how to write basic HTML mark-up
> and elementary CSS.  This is especially true when the 'poster' has
> apparently not even tried to validate it (and, therefore, not seriously
> tried to solve the problem themselves).
> 
> Should we not, at least, expect a list contributor to know the basics of
> HTML and CSS, for example.
> 
> At the other end of the scale, there are sometimes posts which seem to be
> more about how to 'work around' Web standards to achieve a particular
> design rather than DESIGN to Web Standards in the first place (usually a
> knock-on effect due to graphic designers pretending to be Web designers).
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, August 5, 2008 10:00 pm, Jody Tate wrote:
> > I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has
> > seemed
> > like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial
> > problems
> > with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
> > internet and in books.
> >
> > On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for
> >> helping
> >> people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
> >> practice.
> >> A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners
> >> and
> >> advanced, alike.
> >
> > If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
> > standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At
> > the
> > university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle
> > different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.
> >
> > A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
> > participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help
> > were
> > considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
> > searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.
> >
> > I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for
> > different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
> > other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
> > standards themselves.
> >
> >> Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as
> >> its
> >> mission
> >> to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as
> >> CSS,
> >> is
> >> mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest
> >> common
> >> denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on
> >> the
> >> bottom
> >> are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.
> >
> > To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
> > first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
> > multiple goals might be acceptable.
> >
> > Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
> > Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
> > sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
> > list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
> > inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
> > vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards,
> > emerging standards and so on.
> >
> > -jody
> >
> > --
> > Jod

Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-06 Thread Adam Martin
I totally agree which is why I arose the subject in the first place. A 
person interested in the building standards shouldn't expect the building 
standards group to tell them how to use a hammer. Same goes here.




- Original Message - 
From: "Stuart Foulstone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings




I have no problem with elementary questions about Web standards.

But there are perhaps too many posts about how to write basic HTML mark-up
and elementary CSS.  This is especially true when the 'poster' has
apparently not even tried to validate it (and, therefore, not seriously
tried to solve the problem themselves).

Should we not, at least, expect a list contributor to know the basics of
HTML and CSS, for example.

At the other end of the scale, there are sometimes posts which seem to be
more about how to 'work around' Web standards to achieve a particular
design rather than DESIGN to Web Standards in the first place (usually a
knock-on effect due to graphic designers pretending to be Web designers).



On Tue, August 5, 2008 10:00 pm, Jody Tate wrote:

I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has
seemed
like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial
problems
with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
internet and in books.

On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for
helping
people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
practice.
A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners
and
advanced, alike.


If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At
the
university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level 
tackle

different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.

A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help
were
considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.

I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, 
for

different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
standards themselves.


Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as
its
mission
to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as
CSS,
is
mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest
common
denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on
the
bottom
are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.


To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
multiple goals might be acceptable.

Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of 
standards,

emerging standards and so on.

-jody

--
Jody Tate
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/






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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-06 Thread Stuart Foulstone

I have no problem with elementary questions about Web standards.

But there are perhaps too many posts about how to write basic HTML mark-up
and elementary CSS.  This is especially true when the 'poster' has
apparently not even tried to validate it (and, therefore, not seriously
tried to solve the problem themselves).

Should we not, at least, expect a list contributor to know the basics of 
HTML and CSS, for example.

At the other end of the scale, there are sometimes posts which seem to be
more about how to 'work around' Web standards to achieve a particular
design rather than DESIGN to Web Standards in the first place (usually a
knock-on effect due to graphic designers pretending to be Web designers).



On Tue, August 5, 2008 10:00 pm, Jody Tate wrote:
> I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has
> seemed
> like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial
> problems
> with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
> internet and in books.
>
> On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for
>> helping
>> people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
>> practice.
>> A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners
>> and
>> advanced, alike.
>
> If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
> standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At
> the
> university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle
> different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.
>
> A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
> participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help
> were
> considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
> searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.
>
> I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for
> different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
> other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
> standards themselves.
>
>> Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as
>> its
>> mission
>> to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as
>> CSS,
>> is
>> mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest
>> common
>> denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on
>> the
>> bottom
>> are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.
>
> To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
> first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
> multiple goals might be acceptable.
>
> Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
> Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
> sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
> list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
> inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
> vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards,
> emerging standards and so on.
>
> -jody
>
> --
> Jody Tate
> http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-05 Thread Michael Horowitz
Definitely a hope of mine.   I would really think it might be best to 
use subject headings to allow people who aren't interested in helping to 
skip over posts.


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle 
unselfishly gets repeated. :)


Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com


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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-05 Thread Mike at Green-Beast.com
On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle unselfishly 
gets repeated. :)


Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com 




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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-05 Thread Rick Faircloth
Thanks for your thoughts, Jody.

I agree with you for the most part.

I would say, however, that even on the lists on which I participate,
the "Newbie" version of the list still has to have experienced posters
who can guide the newbies.  Without them, the newbies would all be
floundering for lack of guidance.

Also, you're right in saying that a list on a topic doesn't *have* to have
it first mission be to teach.  However, a list as broad in spectrum in dealing
with standards as this list should have teaching as a core purpose, unless it 
specifically states
otherwise.

And finally, I participate on other lists that have users with varying degrees
of expertise, so there are many topics that are beyond me or of no interest to 
me.
For those, I just skim the topics and delete.  I guess some people do feel duty 
bound to
read all topics, but I just hit the ones that I have answers to or have some 
interest for me.

If I read them all I'd never get anything done!  :o)

But always, list management is a tricky business and discussions like these are 
part of
a growing, vibrant community.  It would be very easy to manage a list where 
there were
no participants!

Rick

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody Tate
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:01 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has seemed
> like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial problems
> with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
> internet and in books.
> 
> On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for 
> > helping
> > people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
> > practice.
> > A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and
> > advanced, alike.
> 
> If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
> standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At the
> university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle
> different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.
> 
> A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
> participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help were
> considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
> searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.
> 
> I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for
> different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
> other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
> standards themselves.
> 
> > Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its
> > mission
> > to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as 
> > CSS,
> > is
> > mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common
> > denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on the
> > bottom
> > are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.
> 
> To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
> first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
> multiple goals might be acceptable.
> 
> Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
> Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
> sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
> list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
> inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
> vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards,
> emerging standards and so on.
> 
> -jody
> 
> --
> Jody Tate
> http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-05 Thread Jody Tate
I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has seemed
like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial problems
with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
internet and in books.

On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for helping
> people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
> practice.
> A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and
> advanced, alike.

If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At the
university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle
different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.

A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help were
considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.

I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for
different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
standards themselves.

> Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its
> mission
> to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as CSS,
> is
> mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common
> denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on the
> bottom
> are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.

To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
multiple goals might be acceptable.

Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards,
emerging standards and so on.

-jody

--
Jody Tate
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/






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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-05 Thread Rick Faircloth
> Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group 
> is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting 
> to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort 
> of things.

And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for helping
people understand the most basic principles and application of a give practice.

A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and 
advanced, alike.

If one cannot expect to participate in this list and "learn CSS", then it needs
to be made known that this is a list for advanced web standards gurus 
only...those who
need to understand something basic need not post...you will only be belittled 
for
your ignorance, not tutored and nurtured in your quest for coding to web 
standards.

My personal opinion is that the moderators need to be more "moderate" in their
enforcement of list standards.  In other words, "chill out" a little and let 
this
be a living, breathing community of participants who do think other thoughts 
they'd
like to share or need help on topics that might not fit a tightly screwed 
definition of
"web standards", but that don't justify "joining another list" just to ask a 
question
that is slightly oblique to the main list subject matter.

Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its 
mission
to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as CSS, is
mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common
denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on the 
bottom
are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.

And, yes, I agree with another poster, that there is a great need for a 
"Standards Newbie"
list, where *all* questions are welcome, if this list won't suffice.

Rick



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Horowitz
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:16 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> I look at the list guidelines to see if I am appropriate
> 
> http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm where it says the list is
> 
> Provide web standards information and assistance to developers...
> 
> The mail list covers any topic associated with web standards including:
> 
> * Implementing Web Standards - eg: technologies such as HTML, XHTML,
>   CSS, DOM, UAAG, RDF, XML, JavaScript and EcmaScript
> 
> 
> It seems my questions are about implementing Web Standards.  I certainly
> agree with the earlier posters who suggested I make sure to validate
> before posting questions on what I do.  That would have saved some dumb
> questions on my behalf.  I do think we should probably add requiring
> validation before posting How To my sites broken questions to the list.
> 
> I also do think that it is possible their are lurkers on my list
> learning web standards and just starting with tableless design who may
> benefit from my questions.  Going back 20 years to college I remember
> feeling like an idiot being the only one to ask a question in class when
> I didn't understand something only to have a half a dozen people thank
> me for my question after class because they were too afraid to ask.  So
> I do believe there are other who may learn from my questions.
> 
> There may be a benefit to the group to have multiple mail lists for
> different aspects of Web Standards including a newbie list where people
> can seek help.  I would also be open to having a standard part of a
> subject line like
> Dumb Newbie asking question :)   to allow people who don't want to get
> involved with helping to more easily filter my mail.  I can tell you it
> will probably be 6 months to a year before I can add much more to the
> list besides asking questions so you may just with to use your email
> filter to put my posts to your trash bin and take it out again this time
> next year.
> 
> I know I am supposed to thank people off list for help but as long as it
> is part of a longer posting I will just add some thanks for your help.
> I do learn alot from this list both from my questions on the subject I
> just read.
> 
> Michael Horowitz
> Your Computer Consultant
> http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
> 561-394-9079
> 
> 
> 
> Adam Martin wrote:
> > Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group
> > is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting
> > to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort
> > of things.
> > - Original Message - From: "Michael Horowitz"
&g

Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-05 Thread Michael Horowitz

I look at the list guidelines to see if I am appropriate

http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm where it says the list is

Provide web standards information and assistance to developers...

The mail list covers any topic associated with web standards including:

   * Implementing Web Standards - eg: technologies such as HTML, XHTML,
 CSS, DOM, UAAG, RDF, XML, JavaScript and EcmaScript


It seems my questions are about implementing Web Standards.  I certainly 
agree with the earlier posters who suggested I make sure to validate 
before posting questions on what I do.  That would have saved some dumb 
questions on my behalf.  I do think we should probably add requiring 
validation before posting How To my sites broken questions to the list.


I also do think that it is possible their are lurkers on my list 
learning web standards and just starting with tableless design who may 
benefit from my questions.  Going back 20 years to college I remember 
feeling like an idiot being the only one to ask a question in class when 
I didn't understand something only to have a half a dozen people thank 
me for my question after class because they were too afraid to ask.  So 
I do believe there are other who may learn from my questions.


There may be a benefit to the group to have multiple mail lists for 
different aspects of Web Standards including a newbie list where people 
can seek help.  I would also be open to having a standard part of a 
subject line like
Dumb Newbie asking question :)   to allow people who don't want to get 
involved with helping to more easily filter my mail.  I can tell you it 
will probably be 6 months to a year before I can add much more to the 
list besides asking questions so you may just with to use your email 
filter to put my posts to your trash bin and take it out again this time 
next year. 

I know I am supposed to thank people off list for help but as long as it 
is part of a longer posting I will just add some thanks for your help.  
I do learn alot from this list both from my questions on the subject I 
just read.


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Adam Martin wrote:
Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group 
is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting 
to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort 
of things.
- Original Message - From: "Michael Horowitz" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty 
good for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use 
then?


Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins.

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



David Hucklesby wrote:

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:

The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning 
and this seemed to

work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

however I am just learning to do css without tables and really 
don't know what I
"should" be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking 
around this worked.  I'll

be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future




CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
As with all design issues, the "best" choice is usually a compromise,
depending on what you want to achieve.

My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
for more:

  

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
David
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