Thought i'd repost this as apart from a little discussion about the meaning of
the scripture describing the fall of man little else of a topic that is
essentially the driving force of human evolution has been discussed?
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, rewrisk rewrisk@... wrote:
I have
On 2/1/2012 1:21 AM, mattmodrow wrote:
Well, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. I have become rather
quick in noticing when I first begin to have a thought, but my
practice has always been to return to the present.
What thought can arise that is not present?
K
Sorry to have to tell you this Matt but you will not survive your death.
Some people seem to think that life could only be fair if we are reincarnated
but they fail to recognise that if life was fair you would have to pay for your
advantages and not just your sins. If life is fair then it can't
With all respect to you, rewisk, you have made a lot of assumptions about me
without knowing me. I do not believe in reincarnation, or life after death.
These are things I cannot know, because I have not died. And as far as how
long it should take for a practitioner to attain anything, who
Yes.
I misread your; 'the great matter of birth and death.'
I am heartened that you do not believe in reincarnation or life after death.
I apologise to you, clearly I mistook my audience.
You say 'I should hope I don't ever feel that I have reached a place in my
understanding'. And I am minded
Rewrisk, thank you for your reply. Your considerate words are encouraging and
wise. As far as my technique, I am fortunate enough to live fairly close by to
a Zen meditation center of the Soto lineage. So, at home and at the center in
my Zazen, the only object of my meditation is the
Matt,
I too was fortunate enough to have training in the Soto tradition.
Follow your breathes until you reach shikantaza ('just sitting' or sometimes
called 'clear mind'). There you meet Buddha Nature.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mattmodrow fourforsure@... wrote:
Rewrisk,
Matt.
I was asthmatic as a child and as a young man found attempting to concentrate
on my breathing had rather unpleasant consequences.
I tried many meditative techniques and finally found that simply watching what
occured in my mind was most effective. I had heard of reflective meditation and
Rewrisk, a coincidence indeed, I as well had asthma throughout my childhood and
teens. Luckily, that has subsided over the years (no thanks to many
hair-brained years of cigarettes, which I have only recently quit). But,
anyway, my technique. I do place emphasis on just focusing on my
Well, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. I have become rather quick in
noticing when I first begin to have a thought, but my practice has always been
to return to the present. I will see what my teacher has to say on this issue
of reflective awareness. Not that I blindly follow whatever my
You are quite welcome. You have been very courteous. Courteous even when I
offended with my habitual abruptness.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mattmodrow fourforsure@... wrote:
Well, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. I have become rather quick in
noticing when I first begin to have a
On 1/26/2012 10:47 PM, rewrisk wrote:
This is disingenuous my friend.
You did not hear my statement, but responded from preconceptions.
Having no way to hear what another hears, is it not disingenuous to
suggest otherwise?
Disingenuous it a label that must be preconceived to be able to
Rewisk,
If you have no use for non sense then you have no use for zen...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, rewrisk rewrisk@... wrote:
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore your words make a non sense.
I have no use for
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote:
Rewisk,
If you have no use for non sense then you have no use for zen...Bill!
None at all.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it
On 1/27/2012 3:15 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
If you have no use for non sense then you have no use for zen...Bill!
To not see the great humor in much of Zen writing, history, and
practices - is tragic indeed.
On 1/27/2012 3:22 AM, rewrisk wrote:
This is avoidance
Avoidance, engagement - same disease.
I reckon the humour you speak of is an illusion.
I would be stretching myself though.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/27/2012 3:15 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
If you have no use for non sense then you have no use for zen...Bill!
To not see the
Yes it is!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/27/2012 3:22 AM, rewrisk wrote:
This is avoidance
Avoidance, engagement - same disease.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
Dear Kristopher Grey, I enjoyed your posting. Where were you all this
time. Please contribute more in the future. A bow to you, JMJM
On 1/27/2012 12:54 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
On 1/27/2012 3:22 AM, rewrisk wrote:
This is avoidance
Avoidance, engagement - same disease.
谢谢您
On 1/27/2012 10:35 AM, 覺妙精明 wrote:
Dear Kristopher Grey, I enjoyed your posting. Where were you all
this time. Please contribute more in the future. A bow to you, JMJM
On 1/26/2012 12:22 AM, rewrisk wrote:
Ha ha.
This speeks to my new topic.
So you think knowledge learnt from others is essential to the search
for enlightenment?
Funny question, as it appears to seek an answer from others! Almost as
funny as this notion of searching for...
Because it does not hunt.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Ha ha.
Yes!
I speak to share things I have known, from experience.
Phillosophers speak to arouse a sense of things they understand and
perhaps hope to
On 1/26/2012 12:50 AM, rewrisk wrote:
I answer this out of courtesy.
Except for parts of a few scriptures, where have I spoken the words of
another? Used ideas pronounced by another? I have answered this
question from yourself before, this becomes an accusation.
An accusation that I know is
Ok this is already going stale but the most powerfull thing I have known
recently is this.
Two days ago there was light rain for most of the day except for one short
burst. A squall that blew through, blasted through really. It only lasted a few
seconds, but for a few seconds,'a wave fell from
On 1/26/2012 4:35 AM, rewrisk wrote:
You are being disingenuous.
Worse than the previous intellectual fraud.
It is more simply dishonest.
I am not asking disingenuous questions.
Not labeling you or your words.
I am simply reflecting on your offerings.
Ok this is already going stale but the most powerfull thing I have known
recently is this.
Two days ago there was light rain for most of the day except for one short
burst. A squall that blew through, blasted through really. It only lasted a few
seconds, but for a few seconds,'a wave fell from
I see hints, here and there in your words of something.
But mostly not.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 4:35 AM, rewrisk wrote:
You are being disingenuous.
Worse than the previous intellectual fraud.
It is more simply dishonest.
I am
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 25, 2012, at 21:50, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
I answer this out of courtesy.
It seems I have offended you. I apologize. My point is that there is no
dividing line between you and these others, these philosophers, that you
On 1/26/2012 4:54 AM, rewrisk wrote:
I see hints, here and there in your words of something.
But mostly not.
Something? Just an illusion. Arising and passing. The words having
nothing in them, are not for you.
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore your words make a non sense.
I have no use for non sense.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane chris@... wrote:
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan
Dont bother unless you are going to speak of what you yourself know.
Zen flesh zen bones is far from my favourite book on zen but probably the most
usefull that I encounterred in the time I was searching. I could look at any
page and see words spoken by someone who knew. There would be a short
On 1/26/2012 5:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore your words make a non sense.
I have no use for non sense.
Naturally.
Enlightenment is no different.
Ohh!
How romantic.
Do I mock you?
Most certainly not for me.
Poets now and phillosophers.
Reality has a way of anouncing itself to any who deny it.
Speak of this?
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 4:54 AM, rewrisk wrote:
I see hints, here
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore your words make a non sense.
I have no use for non sense.
Naturally.
On 1/26/2012 6:09 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Dont bother unless you are going to speak of what you yourself know.
Zen flesh zen bones is far from my favourite book on zen but probably
the most usefull that I encounterred in the time I was searching. I
could look at any page and see words spoken by
On 1/26/2012 6:20 PM, rewrisk wrote:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 6:20 PM, rewrisk wrote:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Your argument is based on a
On 1/26/2012 8:36 PM, rewrisk wrote:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote:
Forms offer no hindrance.
Eloquence.
What hindrance but form?
Attachment.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 8:36 PM, rewrisk wrote:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote:
Forms offer no hindrance.
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 26, 2012, at 14:56, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Therefore your words make a non sense.
I have no use for non sense.
Very well.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently
Replies embedded inline with the text.
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 26, 2012, at 15:09, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Dont bother unless you are going to speak of what you yourself know.
Fair enough. Here's one: the ideas of self and others are among the
On 1/26/2012 9:29 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Attachment. Illusion
Do you listen?
If you listen why do you not hear.
Yes, nothing to be hindered.
You hear clearly, yet ask for more noise. Curious pastime.
Provisionally, it is a good idea to sit upright and stilly for some time each
day. Because you know i am human I when deprive myself of not doing anything I
tend to make a crock of things.
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 26, 2012, at 18:44, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au
Fair enough. Here's one: the ideas of self and others are among the main
ideas to be seen through as arbitrary mental constructs.
Believing myself to be this way or that way screws up almost any of my
moments. I think I am afraid of certain situations, as so I let myself off the
hook for
This is disingenuous my friend.
You did not hear my statement, but responded from preconceptions.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 9:29 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Attachment. Illusion
Do you listen?
If you listen why do you not hear.
On 1/26/2012 10:34 PM, rewrisk wrote:
You must both know your own mind and be able to exercise control over
it or any powerfull Satori will leave you insane.
I also see this potential for people going insane. Perhaps all do. Some
in ways society can ignore or tolerate, some not (sanity
People seem to think that our ancestors were morons and all of a sudden people
just woke up. But the knowledge that drove the industrial revolution and still
drives science today with evolving theories and even drove the awakening of
people like the Buddha, Yahushua bar Yoseph and others has
On 1/25/2012 2:18 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
I've often also used the mythology of 'eating of the fruit of the Tree
of the Knowledge of Good and Evil' as a metaphor for the rise of the
discriminting mind and self which tends to obscure Buddha Nature
(which I refer to as Just THIS!)
...Bill!
I like this part
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil did have fruit, but it wasn't just
the Fruit of Knowledge. It was the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
which is necessarily laced with the hallucinagenic toxin of dualism. I
believe, as you've indicated below, that this
On 1/25/2012 4:51 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
To continue with the analogy from my perspective...
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil did have fruit, but it
wasn't just the Fruit of Knowledge. It was the Fruit of the Knowledge
of Good and Evil which is necessarily laced with the
Just sounds like phillosophy to me.
So many empty words.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/25/2012 4:51 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
To continue with the analogy from my perspective...
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil did have fruit, but
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 25, 2012, at 16:58, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
So many empty words.
As opposed to all those full words?
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading!
Ha ha.
Yes!
I speak to share things I have known, from experience.
Phillosophers speak to arouse a sense of things they understand and perhaps
hope to know.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane chris@... wrote:
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 25,
the years
Buddha be praised
Mel
From: rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 26 January 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: [Zen] Re: What of God?
Just sounds like phillosophy to me.
So many empty words.
@...
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 26 January 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: [Zen] Re: What of God?
Just sounds like phillosophy to me.
So many empty words.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 25, 2012, at 17:56, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Phillosophers speak to arouse a sense of things they understand and perhaps
hope to know.
So there is some difference between you and these philosophers?
On Jan 25, 2012, at 21:22, rewrisk rewr...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
So you think knowledge learnt from others is essential to the search for
enlightenment?
Others?
From some perspectives, everything experienced is teaching.
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
I answer this out of courtesy.
Except for parts of a few scriptures, where have I spoken the words of another?
Used ideas pronounced by another? I have answered this question from yourself
before, this becomes an accusation.
An accusation that I know is born of ignorance as I know I speak from
You fail to even maintain context with your argument.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane chris@... wrote:
On Jan 25, 2012, at 21:22, rewrisk rewrisk@... wrote:
So you think knowledge learnt from others is essential to the search for
enlightenment?
Others?
Rewisk,
I've often also used the mythology of 'eating of the fruit of the Tree of the
Knowledge of Good and Evil' as a metaphor for the rise of the discriminting
mind and self which tends to obscure Buddha Nature (which I refer to as Just
THIS!)
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,
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